Which group wants to have this sadistic torturer identified as one of them? This "woke" museum isn't doing the group it is trying to favor any favor. Quite the opposite.
November 21, 2023
"At one feast, he had several of his guests lashed to a water-wheel, which turned slowly and drowned them as their horrified fellow diners looked on."
"In another... he released dozens of leopards and lions among his guests once they had finished eating.
On one occasion, he let poisonous snakes loose among the crowds at the gladiatorial games, causing widespread death and injury.... Elagabalus was also known to dress entirely in precious silks and draped himself with gems.... Elagabalus was rumoured to have consulted his physicians about an early version of a sex-change operation, and he took a series of male lovers.
He was said to have spent his days in the company of women in his palace, singing, dancing, weaving and wearing a hairnet, eye make-up and rouge.
'The soldiers were revolted at the sight of him,' wrote one ancient historian. 'With his face made up more elaborately than a modest woman, he was effeminately dressed up in golden necklaces and soft clothes, dancing for everyone to see in this state.'"
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82 comments:
Mental illness has existed through the centuries. But now it is celebrated and normalized by the Left.
Did they just misgender this monster?
I thought the only pronouns we're allowed to use for a person are the ones that that person tells us to use... and I would be very surprised to find that this creature was signing imperial edicts "Elagabalus Imperator, she/her."
Well, he was assassinated by the Praetorian Guards after a few years of this nonsense, so I guess that shows what the Romans thought of it all.
Did Musk buy a museum?
The thing you need to remember about Roman histories is they were almost universally written by members of the senatorial class. How an emperor was treated in the histories was very closely tied to the relationship between the emperor and Senate. Emperors who were especially unpopular with the Senate, even if they were popular with the people, the army, etc., would be savaged in the history books. This often involved including every rumor, no matter how implausible and/or exaggerated, that made the emperor look bad, as well as morality stories that were clearly made up and used to illustrate how depraved the emperor was. (Whether the author meant for the morality tales to be taken literally or not is an open question.)
Elagabalus was extremely unpopular with the Senate.
That said, Elagabalus was almost certainly an awful emperor. There have been efforts to rehabilitate other Roman emperors with bad reputations, Domitian being one of the prime targets. Elagabalus, not so much, at least not outside of the Gender Studies crowd.
Roman Emperors are unconstitutional. Perverted monsters with absolute power need not be portrayed as our role models. On the other hand there is Bill Gates.
It's been said once if it's been said millions of times, the similarities of our current era to the end-stage Roman empire are uncanny, right down to the effete feminine transvestite who'll torture you if you don't affirm their identity.
They had their Elegabulus, we have Audrey Hale. If they can't groom you they'll tomb you.
Some things never change.
Takes one to know one. Not proud, but this is too easy.
Sounds like he wanted to be as outrageous as possible. A pretty high bar in third century Rome.
"Must be referred to"?
When did all this pronoun shit become mandatory? What authoritative body conceived it and them? Is there a list? And was there a vote on them that I missed? What are the penalties, where were the penalties posted, and how long ago? Doesn't anybody think it's a good idea to inform the citizenry before you spring shit that "must" happen (or else) on 'em?
Goddammit. If I only accomplish one thing in life, I want it to be making people understand that snakes are not "poisonous", they are "venomous". There's a big difference! (Technically I think there are like two species of "poisonous" snakes, which are poisonous because they consume a lot of poisonous newts.)
Clearly this mistake is the most horrifying part of this article.
Bad role model for trans community. Surprised this new historical revelation was allowed to be presented to public.
Have read that it's not uncommon for trans women to be very aggressive, in a non-feminine manner, threatening violence upon those who transgress them.
"Which group wants to have this sadistic torturer identified as one of them?"
You ask this, as we are witnessing, so far, 13,000 people getting killed - to cheers - even while knowing half of them are children? Please.
Put Bibi in a skirt and you've got Elagabalus.
Sounds like a typical Democrat.
I’m sure women would prefer to remind others it was a man that did these acts.
Making women pull his chariot fits the stereotype trans are crafting for themselves.
Early smells of Democratic Biden-ocracy.
I'm telling you - many trans people are off their rockers with rage. I'm not mocking them - either.
It's a thing. a real thing.
No doubt his decadent, sadist streak was due to the intolerance he encountered day in, day out.
The experts at the museum apparently find the Emperor admirable and probably think his more extreme acts were justified or at least understandable as he courageously struggled against the heteronormative oppression and transphobia of his day.
“You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.” Donald Rumsfeld
This example shows that trans folks can be badass motherfuckers. Also, only extraordinary extremely outlandish people make enough of an impression to be remembered for millennia, so the ancient trans pickings are slim.
…given the true nature of man the real question is ‘Why doesn’t it happen more often?’
It’s just the morning dopamine hit for liberals to discuss amongst themselves for when the fundamental transformation of America is complete…or at least gets the CO…
That business with the snakes was a little over the top, but anyone who lashes a team of noblewomen to his chariot and makes them pull it through the streets can't be all bad.
i've Wondered how long it'd be, before the trans community claimed him..
Of course; he was a psychotic monster.. But birds of a feather
Dave Begley said...
"Mental illness has existed through the centuries. But now it is celebrated and normalized by the Left."
Shorter version: Celebrate Perversity.
Trans/homosexual, trans/social, and Pro-Choice is the trifecta of a liberal lifestyle, and an emperor with slaves, the epitome of authoritarian progress.
"isn't doing the group it is trying to favor any favor"
Why not? The trans point is to overturn all established categories, to show anything goes. Just as decolonization means decolonization, anything means anything.
Sorry Howard, it just shows that insane people can express themselves as transsexuals. And that Cassius Dio was good good at blending fact and fiction.
The first comment (and I assume others) tries to make transsexuality a left wing cause. While the establishment "left" panders to the trans costume fantasies as a potential voting block, the actual left is (or should be) focused on the distribution of income between (actual) working people amd capital.
I'm all for people to live as they want to live, but when hedonism crosses over into psychopathy and social destruction...its days are numbered by sheer functional reality. The predator-hedonists will kill or be killed or imprisoned. This follows from the desire to survive by those who make babies, and the future-minded skills of those who grow new people.
If the modern era follows the fall of Rome in the 400s, a new religion will take the place of the orgies and hedonism and dead-ender lifestyles. At that time Christianity became the moral/functional glue between violent local tribes. Anyone who wanted to do business with strangers had to be a "public" Christian, even as many held traditional/pagan beliefs in private. Our computer "Bluetooth" follows from the Christian conversion of King Harold Bluetooth of Denmark, as he saw powerful Christian Germans across the border. He was close enough to see the political advantages of conversion and the disadvantages (i.e., extinction) of maintaining a Viking/Nordic/pagan lifestyle next to well-organized and reproductive Christians.
So, after the 400s, government Christianity controlled Europe for 1,000 years. It changed with Martin Luther and the rise of Protestants circa 1500. Then King Henry VIII wanted to get a divorce and Roman Catholicism fell apart as many people and local kings stopped following the Pope. Blame Guttenberg and his printing press. Blame medieval social media. Really.
After the fall of Rome, the hedonistic Romans slipped into the shadows (e.g., the Vatican's gay priest and pedophilia culture). It later popped up in Venice, as the Las Vegas of its day. It then continued in Paris, Berlin, and 1,000 Bohemian neighborhoods worldwide.
And now we are revisiting Roman government. History doesn't repeat but it rhymes.
"Quite the opposite."
That's the joke.
RideSpaceMountain said...
It's been said once if it's been said millions of times, the similarities of our current era to the end-stage Roman empire are uncanny,
don't forget the "refugees" that the romans invited into their lands and their legions..
That then sacked rome.
Not that WE are inviting MILLIONS of military age "refugees" into OUR lands and legions..
Oh, wait..
A black African Muslim slave trader, a Nubian god, was the richest man in the world, perhaps ever.
"That business with the snakes was a little over the top, but anyone who lashes a team of noblewomen to his chariot and makes them pull it through the streets can't be all bad."
He even made sure their harnesses were vegan leather. What a transsetter he was.
So at last, all his/her/its atrocities can be seen as cries for help from a woman trapped inside a man's body. Let the rehabilitation commence.
Crack Emcee asks: "When did all this pronoun shit become mandatory? What authoritative body conceived it and them? Is there a list? And was there a vote on them that I missed? What are the penalties, where were the penalties posted, and how long ago? Doesn't anybody think it's a good idea to inform the citizenry before you spring shit that "must" happen (or else) on 'em?"
I get the point of these questions, but I think you know the answers. It's basically being done by institutional fiat, similar to what happened with covid restrictions. The PTB in any given organization decide that a measure is "necessary" or "right" and that's all the authority they require. Even if there happen to be one or two normies within the organization who disagree with the dictatorial impulses of the wokesters in charge, they're rarely willing to take a stand, out of legitimate fear of unemployment and cancellation. Thus, for example, conservative, traditional-minded people who are unambiguously male or female, and have first names that match their sex, nevertheless feel compelled (or perhaps are literally REQUIRED) to display their pronouns on emails, etc. They comply because they don't want to suffer the career consequences of resisting; and this empowers the totalitarians to take the next step toward in their march to snuff out all manifestations of individual freedom.
"Put Bibi in a skirt and you've got Elagabalus."
Considering himself too old to hijack SUVs, Crack settles for hijacking threads.
"Mental illness has existed through the centuries. But now it is celebrated and normalized by the Left."
Shorter version: Celebrate Perversity.
I'm starting to think that all civilization is constantly being pushed in the direction of male sexual fetishes.
he sounds like a modern day democrat politician.
Create chaos. Theyre masters at it.
That Elegabulus ... what a kooky guy.
The early days of every religion is filled with some wild and woolly theology.But I have to admit that the church of Woke TransMother Gia has the most important commandment for a new religion nailed down.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
If he was running against Trump and had the right views on abortion and DEI, the Dems would still vote for him.
What will it take for you to start treating the number of Gazan “civilians and children” killed provided by Hamas with some skepticism, Crack?
Will it help if we start referring to Hamas as “CVS?”
- Rafe
Jim: You make two valid points, however, saying "It just shows" is an expression of you're limited myopic vision. The fact that world is a complex chaotic deterministic system is not refuted by ignorant black and whiteism...
I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabolus,
In conics I can flaunt peculiarities parabolous.
I knew I shouldn't read that. Now I have The most horrible images of Chris Christy stuck in my brain like an irritating song gets stuck sometimes.
Aaarghh...
Liberals just want a reason to constantly think about Rome, too.
"all civilization is constantly being pushed in the direction of male sexual fetishes"
I would broaden that to all higher primate culture.
James said...
Goddammit. If I only accomplish one thing in life…
Everyone pay attention- THIS is how you gripe.
"This "woke" museum isn't doing the group it is trying to favor any favor."
Why do you assume the museum is trying to "favor" a "group"? They're just pointing out that this absolute monster would now be considered "transgender". And he/she/it wouldn't need to be Emperor to be granted political sanction to wreck the lives of his/her/its betters.
Rafe said...
"What will it take for you to start treating the number of Gazan “civilians and children” killed provided by Hamas with some skepticism, Crack?"
When I stop tuning into dead babies being dragged from rubble.
These days guys (and girls) like him just shoot up a Christian school in Tennessee. They skip the waterwheels, leopards, lions and venomous snakes.
Rafe said...
"What will it take for you to start treating the number of Gazan “civilians and children” killed provided by Hamas with some skepticism, Crack?"
Prove Amy Goodman and others reporting on Hamas from the Palestinian side are bad journalists. I know who all the other guys are and we all called them shit, every day, before Oct. 7.
Now they're everybody's buddy or something.
Leopards, lions, poisonous snakes, waterwheels? Jesus, don't give the mentally ill contemporary cohort of Elagabalus' ilk any ideas!
Rafe said...
"What will it take for you to start treating the number of Gazan “civilians and children” killed provided by Hamas with some skepticism, Crack?"
Give me a reason to be skeptical. I know Israel's killing journalists, so news doesn't get out. Why I should trust them is the question.
"I'm telling you - many trans people are off their rockers with rage. I'm not mocking them - either.
"It's a thing. a real thing."
I don't know about "off their rockers with rage," but...many years ago I was at an afternoon gathering in Brooklyn at the apartment of a friend of mine, where I met a friend of hers, a woman who worked as a therapist with pre-op transexuals. I asked what they were like and she said, "Most of them are very angry."
One can--or I can--easily imagine why: imagine how you would feel if you absolutely felt and thought yourself to be a woman, but were trapped inside a man's body, (or vice versa, of course). How would you feel if you woke up one morning and the face reflected in your mirror was not the face you "knew" to be yours? Every day such people have to live a nightmare, wondering how and why they could possibly have the wrong body? How (and why) could they have been so cursed...and how could it be remedied?
One can call them mentally ill, but is that true? How do we become men and women? The body is just our outer physical shell; what makes our brains perceive ourselves to be existentially male or female?
In the earliest stages of our development in the womb, fetuses have no physical gender characteristics. At a certain stage, 6 or 7 weeks along, chromosomal and hormonal factors trigger the fetus to develop its physical gender characteristics, male or female. However, how does the brain become "male" or "female?" If there are similar but separate chromosomal/hormonal factors that direct the brain to become either "male" or "female," isn't it plausible that the brain could develop such that whatever in us tells us we are male or female could go awry, such that a physically male child has a "female brain," so-called, or vice versa? (For that matter, what is it that determines whether people become heterosexual or homosexual in their primary sexual orientation and proclivities? It is still not known, though genetic and hormonal factors are theorized to be at play.)
I find this very easy to accept as a possibility. Such people have existed throughout human history, in all cultures. However, whatever the cause of this phenomenon, one cannot simply assume they are liars, hedonists, psychopaths, or crazy.
As to sex-reassignment medical procedures, given the variables and the unique cases of each person, the uncertainties as to how each person may develop as they go through puberty to physical and mental adulthood, I do think it essential to restrict sex-reassignment operations and hormone treatments to the age of legal majority, where one is considered legally to be an adult. Once an adult, all seeking sex reassignment should first be required to dress and live as their desired gender, all the time taking hormones to develop in them the physical characteristics of that gender, to ensure they are happy and content living in the new identity, before any surgical procedures are permitted. (This used to be the norm, I believe, and it may still be, but I don't know if that is actually the case.)
I'm starting to think that all civilization is constantly being pushed in the direction of male sexual fetishes.
I listened to a podcast this morning in which a self-declared "critical feminist," an avowed lesbian who is alllll the way at the same-sex-attracted end of that spectrum (which does seem to be a spectrum, but a strongly bimodal one), made the claim that it's a myth that men want more sex than women - it's just that women have been shamed into hiding their desires, you see.
Applause to her as a woman a little older than I am, for apparently wanting sex all the damn time the way my husband and all our male friends demonstrably do!
I would say, instead, that civilization begins with men subordinating their sexual fetishes (or just plain desires) to protect their offspring and the women who give birth to and care for them. Some animals do this; humans do it more and better. And civilization seems to me to be an outgrowth of this evolutionary imperative.
Which, if I'm any kind of right, means that what we're seeing is regression: the pressure to revert to an uncivilized state, driven by unfettered male libido (or maybe we could just call it "aggression" and assume that sexual desire is encompassed within it), has always been there, but only in recent decades have we been thinking that to give in to it is progress.
Note: I'm a big fan of men. I also recognize that male aggression is a - maybe the most - powerful engine for both progress and violence, and I heartily support the laudable impulse of almost all men to moderate and channel their aggression to promote safety for women and children.
Yet another violent tranny whose crimes have been covered up for years. I am appalled.
Jamie: "I heartily support the laudable impulse of almost all men to moderate and channel their aggression to promote safety for women and children."
You are ascribing K traits to all men, ignoring that many human cultures have evolved in environments more favorable to r reproductive strategy.
To quote Wikipedia: "The focus on either an increased quantity of offspring at the expense of individual parental investment of r-strategists, or on a reduced quantity of offspring with a corresponding increased parental investment of K-strategists, varies widely, seemingly to promote success in particular environments."
"I know our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's;
I answer hard acrostics, I've a pretty taste for paradox,
I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus,
In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous.
I can tell undoubted Raphaels from Gerard Dows and Zoffanies,
I know the croaking chorus from The Frogs of Aristophanes!
Then I can hum a fugue of which I've heard the music's din afore,
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore."
Which group wants to have this sadistic torturer identified as one of them?
Hey, a celebrity is a celebrity!
I noticed that Wikipedia has locked down Elagabalus' page so people can't change it.
I wonder if they did this in response to this article? (And people furiously trying to change the gender references back and forth.)
One can call them mentally ill, but is that true? How do we become men and women? The body is just our outer physical shell; what makes our brains perceive ourselves to be existentially male or female?
The body/mind dichotomy is not as profound as all that. There is a "male brain" and a "female brain" and, while they overlap in all sorts of ways, on average we can point to differences.
I believe it is true that the unfortunate few who perceive themselves to be in the wrong bodies, whether that perception involves their sex or whatever other physical quality they think doesn't belong, are mentally ill. There's no evidence that a transgender person's brain behaves like the brain of a person of the other sex - except insofar as that person's brain may behave like the brain of a gay person of their actual sex. In other words, as every other line of evidence also indicates, transgender people (and adolescents in particular), if left untreated, will almost always end up being both gay and well adjusted to their actual sex (in our society, where it's ok to be gay).
For those few who don't, I'm with you that as mature adults capable of making informed decisions and after participating in serious therapy to ensure that they're not manifesting the effects of other mental/emotional issues, they are welcome to undergo gender reassignment. I know this means they won't be able to "pass" as effectively as if they transition as children. And, I'm not on board with trans women in women's spaces - biology is still biology and a trans woman's body and mind are still shaped by male development (see my earlier comment on male aggression). But we have been at some pains to create a society in which we allow for people to present themselves in all kinds of ways while being protected from legal discrimination and, to a great extent, from incidental discrimination too.
So then we get to the question of health insurance. My first pass at that is:
* Only non-affirmation-model psychological therapy for minors.
* No use of puberty blockers except in cases of actual premature puberty - like, age 8? Age of puberty onset has been dropping in the developed world, I know.
* No medical or surgical intervention for anyone of any age without serious (that is, many months of, and no affirmation model) psychological therapy first. I would also be in favor of the "living as the sex you want to be perceived as for a period of years" thing.
* And only then, for adults who have run this psychological gauntlet, covered benefits.
Yes, it's a lot. But if your distress with your body is so severe that you want to amputate some structures, build others out of your colon or your arm, and be on life-shortening hormones for the rest of your days, therapy to help you achieve some peace as you incrementally approach these interventions would be prudent, wouldn't it? And if you find, in the course of that therapy, that you don't need to take such drastic measures, all the better, surely?
Speaking of yet more interesting modern analogues to ancient Rome, take this quote from Roman historian Tom Holland:
"Even as (the Late Roman Empire's) urban population remained much the same since Constantinus's victory at the Milvian Bridge, recruitment among roman citizens by the year 390AD had plummeted to barely 15% of what it was was 50 years prior — what is made more dire when one realizes that the Roman Empire after Diocletianus's reforms required a standing army at least twice the size of that of the time of the roman golden age under Vespasianus.
The attempt to replace roman soldiers for the Foederati (immigrants mostly settled illegally on roman land) led to a swift competence crisis among the ranks, as well as the disappearance of roman veteran culture. Among the most shocking anecdotes are reports of roman armies mutinying over 'the absurdity that a roman army must build roads and infrastructure'.
As political, demographical and economic factors coalesced, the roman recruitment crisis can be understood as an existential crisis of the empire itself, simply put, roman citizens rich and poor no longer believed that a military career would be beneficial to them, nor they believed the existence of the military and the empire itself were worth any sacrifice."
It's laughable how similar modern America is to end-stage Roman empire, if there was anything funny about it
Althouse:
Which group wants to have this sadistic torturer identified as one of them? This "woke" museum isn't doing the group it is trying to favor any favor. Quite the opposite.
Nothing new. The trans movement has always focused on the blatantly ridiculous. They look to regale the past representatives of themselves because that's exactly what they are - representatives of the current crop of activists. Look at the people doing "pranks" on TikTok. Look at the pushing of drag queens on everyone. Combine those displays of mental illness.
There are trans who don't (Blaire White for one) but they are attacked even more vociferously than normals are. They point out that full transexuals try to integrate into society not force society to accommodate them. Their voices are mostly drowned out.
Jamie, as usual, is thoughtful, reasonable, and right.
No wonder men spend so much time thinking about the Roman Empire. (Those Romans came up with some great names.)
I wondered whether "Elagabalus" was the emperor I knew as Heliogabalus, but even before Nancy's post (thanks!), I'd Googled the dude. Except perhaps I should no longer call zim that?
Jamie: you make some excellent points, however I take issue with your characterization of civilization and so-called civilized behavior. IMO, civilization is what creates the extremes of perverted and violent behaviors. The Bible teaches that civilization caused the fall of man. Stone age tribes were egalitarian meritocracies led by Alpha males and wise women. Tribal wealth was measured in family and having a diversity of talent. Civilization changed that by elevating the Beta males to the leadership and the consolidation of wealth. People became expendable and war at scale was waged frequently. In many ways, this shift is responsible for physical and psychological de-evolution of human beings. The brutal and rapacious behavior of this ancient trans man is the natural consequence of civilized behaviors where dominance hierarchy is rewarded from narcissistic and sociopathic traits. Hence the popularity of Jeffrey Epstein's pedophile island with the Billionaire Betas who are turned on by powerless girls.
“Give me a reason to be skeptical.”
The fact that they’ve been lying, breaking ceasefires, and undermining genuine efforts at establishing an actual Palestinian state since 1987?
You hate Jews so much that “Palestine” is your New Age Bullshit, Crack.
Soon, Pali propagandists will have you convinced you can walk through walls.
- Rafe
In San Francisco he would blend right in...
For Elagabalus said "I bleed."
In the end he did.
Elagabalus of the Severan dynasty was the Syrian high priest of Baal. Bisexuality was required. Also his grandmother, mother and ant ran the empire. The Severans were the first emperors not from the Italian peninsula so very mult-culti. Father was North African and mother Syrian. All but the first, Septimius, were assassinated.
The museum needs to give due recognition to Sporus, the young slave boy whom Nero had castrated, and then married as his Empress in 66–67 CE. Nero was despondent over the death of his first wife,Poppaea Sabina. Nero accidentally killed her in 65 CE by kicking her in the stomach while she was pregnant. Nero was despondent over her death.
Sporus bore a strong resemblance to Poppaea Sabina, and Nero supposedly offered vast sums of money to any doctor who could make Sporus fully a woman. Sporus dressed as a woman, and was treated as such. When Nero was killed, Sporus was allowed to survive, and went on to become the companion of Otho, one of the emperors during the year of the four emperors.
So Nero pioneered gender studies, and has unfairly been ignored as the true patriarch of the great movement to defeat biological reality. Fortunately, we are not as decadent, deluded, cruel, or dishonest as the Romans of the Imperial Era.
Howard at 3:03 reveals himself to be even more completely off the wall than I had previously imagined. WTF, Man? Is that a parody?
Howard said...
Jamie: you make some excellent points, however I take issue with your characterization of civilization and so-called civilized behavior. IMO, civilization is what creates the extremes of perverted and violent behaviors. The Bible teaches that civilization caused the fall of man. Stone age tribes were egalitarian meritocracies led by Alpha males and wise women.
Wow. Such utter BS in such a short number of words.
Start with "egalitarian meritocracies led by Alpha males". Uh, a contradiction in terms if I've ever seen one. In stone age tribes, an alpha male would be the strongest physical specimen around, and other males would have few if any breeding opportunities. And the wise women? Yeah, uh-huh. They'd all be scheming to come out as the primary partner of that alpha male. Not the only one, that doesn't happen in stone age tribes.
I could go on- but why?
Perversions occur in societies at any level of organization. They're either -1. Feted or 2. Punished. Sometimes 3. Ignored When they're feted marks the beginning of the end of any well organized society. Weimar Germany, Roman Empire, for 2 examples. And the Spanish conquered the Aztecs with native help because of Aztec perversions. What perversions? Well, human sacrifice comes to mind.
Joe Smith,
In San Francisco he would run for office...
Here's an idea: museums should be guided by the truth, wherever it goes.
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