She expresses surprise to hear anti-semitism coming from the left. She'd been thinking the left is her side. But she can't really be surprised.
Then there's Ezra Klein's podcast episode, "Israel Is Giving Hamas What It Wants." It's much less personally expressive, but it's a similarly jumbled set of statements from someone who is Jewish and feels called to align with the left.
Posts
154 comments:
Of course the left is all over the place. Like this "Journolist".
https://x.com/realjameswoods/status/1714670018041188369?s=42&t=5xhzzKxRT8bkjJBvu8QpIg
Lotsa heat, no light.
Just goes to show you, how delusional the left really is, when THEY are the problem. She opened her eyes for a quick minute, and then she went back to the dark side. These are the people who would have helped the Nazi's put Jewish people on the trains.
This reminds of the clip where some white boys were filming BLM rioters and BLM threw a rock through their window. They then started screaming, “We’re on your side.”
That’s why tribalism will never work. The tribe isn’t based on ideology; it’s based on race.
She should apologize: It's far too easy for people who defend Israel to get away with calling everyone who analyzes the situation antisemites during war time. (I'm looking at you, wendybar) People can get killed for those kind of slanders now. And yet these people do not check themselves. They're reckless, dangerous, and stupid.
And I, for one, will not forget it.
Jon Stewart's new show 'The Problem' has been cancelled by Apple over 'creative differences' on the subject of Stewart's treatment of A.I. and China as creative material. Looks like the progressive 'artistic' class is running into the modern (commercial) sensibilities of the progressive 'corporate' class. Well, well, well.
It will take more than this for the scales to fall from their eyes.
They are slow on the uptake.
There's this cool movie called Schindler's List. Ben Kingsley plays a Jew who helps the Nazi's do their accounting, while all around him Jews were literally being murdered in public on the streets and pushed into trains.
But the books got done.
Kingsley's character made sure that Oscar Schindler made excellent war profits.
The moral of the story is that there are always Jews to assist in the rounding up of the other members of their tribe.
That's Sarah Silverman. She's a modern-day Itzhak Stern. Her efforts are to ensure that she isn't put on the train. Even if that means all the other Jews are put on the train. That's their problem.
It is well worth listening through the whole podcast by Ezra Klein, thinking through it (Sarah... yeah, no judgment there, perhaps I prefer "mansplaining"). Perhaps, in parallel, Vivek's interview with Tucker. These are not that much different from what one could have read at Instapundit, the prescient comment by Glenn Reynolds, I think the next day from the initial outrage, and to paraphrase: It is well advised to do something else than expected.
How do you explain people who can party outside of a concentration camp wall? How Zionists let themselves become the equals to the folks in "Zone of Interest" is terrifying. It's like they (and their supporters) internalized what the Germans did. That includes calling anyone who disagrees, or analyze the situation, an enemy. Only the Nazis exhibited such rigid thinking. And only the Nazis made a habit of trying to shut thinking down.
I suggest Israel give Hamas the opportunity for unconditional surrender or death.
73% of Joe Biden's Cabinet is comprised of Jewish people.
You remember Joe Biden. He's the guy who gave Iran $6 billion. Iran uses the money to provide Hamas with bullets and rockets and other war materials.
Not a single Jew running the United States government has resigned, knowing that Joe Biden funded this terrorist attack.
What you need to know about Sarah Silverman is that she's in good company.
There’s not much there- I think she’s just stupid. The pretty girl with a potty mouth thing was a good run but it doesn’t make you a philosopher or even just a thinker…
Are we the baddies, she said.
There isnt enough popcorn
“People can get killed for those kind of slanders now.”
People can get killed walking their doggie.
Dave Begley said...
"This reminds of the clip where some white boys were filming BLM rioters and BLM threw a rock through their window. They then started screaming, “We’re on your side.” "
Reminds me of the Greek chorus of "mostly peaceful" protesters on State Street in Madison, following after the people who were throwing bricks through windows, saying "this is not who we are."
Sarah also mentioned that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was “just like Trump, a criminal thug,”
The label fits because we now know Bibi was the one bankrolling Hamas:
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
"No one ever said 'Palestinians'. I hadn't heard the word 'Palestinians' until I was in high school,... We knew that there were Arabs. We called them 'the Arabs of Israel',... The biblical story, and history, we're taught go side-by-side, hand-in-hand. Nobody ever questioned the fact the Bible is not a history book, and what we were learning was based on fiction,...But that was the narrative: we were right, they were wrong."
- Miko Peled, son of an Israeli General, and a direct relative of a signer of Israel's declaration of independence
It's another taqqiya sunrise
Streakin’ slowly 'cross the sky
Say goodbye
He was just a hired hand
Spoutin' all the lies he planned to try
The days go by
Yeah Crack isn't an anti Semite. He hates all religions equally...
After this cruel anti-Geneva convention massacre of innocents by Hamas - I just don't give a F about any of the Palestinians.
sorry. I know it's a requirement by the left to cry for the Palestinian death cult - but the corrupt Nazi-supporting left can go f itself, too.
Leftists - always wrong but never in doubt.
As a Jew myself, I respectfully suggest that these people look into their hearts and find Jesus. Or submit to the al-Islam. Jehovah's Witnesses? What about Buddhism?
Or just STFU.
"Israel is the product of a racist, cynical ideology, which is Zionism, which is all Jews have a right to Palestine, at the expense of Palestinians. And at the end of the day, the Palestinians have three choices: they can remain as residents without rights, they can fight and die - which is what we are seeing now - or they can leave. That's it. Those are their choices,... That is a supremacist, racist ideology. Without any doubt."
- Miko Peled
Birches said...
"Yeah Crack isn't an anti Semite. He hates all religions equally..."
Thank you. I've been hanging around here for 10 years and some of these people are just as clueless as the day I arrived.
By the way, for those of you keeping score at home:
1) Joe Biden gave Iran $6 billion in return for 5 American hostages. Iran funds Hamas in Gaza.
2) Joe Biden is now urging Congress to give Hamas $100 million, in exchange for 0 Jewish hostages. According to Reuters, Hamas claims they have 200 Israeli hostages.
To recap: Your President (who is Catholic, btw) is funding terrorism against Jews.
Somebody needs to read Silverman the parable of the scorpion and the frog.
You know she's serious because she says "fucking" a lot.
Aggie at 7am. Good point. I hope this gets more attention.
In kinda sorta related news, the Soros-funded prog da in New Orleans was carjacked last weekend; NOPD had the perp in custody within 48 hours. Of course, they were well acquainted with the 18 year old urban disadvantaged youth. Still, progs are getting mugged by reality. Every day .
In kinda sorta related news, the Soros-funded prog da in New Orleans was carjacked last weekend; NOPD had the perp in custody within 48 hours. Of course, they were well acquainted with the 18 year old urban disadvantaged POC.. Still, progs are getting mugged by reality. Every day .
Hope the Schmuck Emcee isn't getting low on blood pressure pills...
"You have to reject Zionism, or else, you're morally bankrupt."
- Miko Peled
Birches said...
"Yeah Crack isn't an anti Semite. He hates all religions equally..."
That's not entirely true. I have made it clear, that I have always made special accommodations for Jews and Judaism, for political and personal reasons. That's why I charge of antisemitism really bothers me. I've had disagreements with individual Jews my whole life. Why? Because we hang together and they're human beings like everybody else. I think most charging people with antisemitism, for merely disagreeing with a policy, is a sure sign that they don't spend very much time with Jewish people, and idolize them, as caricatures, from afar. I've never had that luxury. Funny story:
I was once seated on an airplane next to an old Jewish woman who brought her own food for the short flight. She offered me half a sandwich, which I accepted, just being nice. I can't remember what kind of sandwich it was, but it was kosher, and probably the nastiest thing I've ever put in my mouth before. Still, I sat and talked with her for the entire trip, with a grin on my face, trying my best to swallow that dry-ass abomination without gagging.
That's about as far as I go when it comes to lying to people.
BLM threw a rock through their window.
I remain impressed about the accuracy of that throw!
Buckwheathikes:
Biden isn't Catholic. He's a criminal.
They left has always been anti-Israel. Now, finally after the brutal Hamas attack which was so interpersonal...anti-Israel equals anti-Semantic. That will happen when you cheer on rape and murder.
Sarah Silverman and her former boyfriend Jimmy Kimmel are a pain in the ass. Remember Kimmel "joking" about not treating the "unvaccinated" in hospitals?
Fuck them both. Wallow in your internal conflict.
There has been a lot of "look away" on the left. It results in people dismissing things that they might not like, which leads to little, if any, memory of those things. Then, when these things recur with sufficient intensity that they cannot be ignored, the people who "looked away" are surprised.
Crack said with certainty: "The biblical story, and history, we're taught go side-by-side, hand-in-hand. Nobody ever questioned the fact the Bible is not a history book, and what we were learning was based on fiction .."
I have not responded to your comments because you have no clue what you are talking about. You are fully ignorant about Biblical history. It's quite clear you have not read the book. Any idiot can take a scripture out of context and present it as contradictory. I would suggest you read the book, read Chuck Smith's commentary or grab a summary of Biblical prophecies that have come to fruition, of which they many. Too numerous to list. Otherwise, shut your yap. You only makes yourself look like a fool.
Crack: Oracle or Asshole?
You decide.
Incidentally, the NATO/American war with Russia is over. Russia has won. Fortunately foe Biden the war to exterminate the Jews of Israel is getting all the Media coverage.
The next big question is when will Turkey, Syria and Iran begin their coordinated invasions of Israel…I mean Jerusalem.
I think we have to be very careful here. Being pro-Israel, doesn't mean we have to be "pro-another fucking middle east war".
Biden's "arsenal of democracy" comment last night is worrisome. Now we're just going to arm the rest of the world with American weapons so they can kill each other? It doesn't end there. Then we are sending in young men and women, led by transgender colonels in skirts into another forever war.
Make peace you assholes. Trump could do it. He did it.
What are we going to do here is America. Watch this conflict escalate and cheer on our favorite team? Remember when Trump was asked if he wanted Ukraine to win the war and he answered "I just want people to stop dying". Sounds like a great objective to me.
---Ezra Klein's podcast
File under things we never knew existed. The wonders of the universe.
"Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
She should apologize: It's far too easy for people who defend Israel to get away with calling everyone who analyzes the situation antisemites during war time. (I'm looking at you, wendybar) People can get killed for those kind of slanders now. And yet these people do not check themselves. They're reckless, dangerous, and stupid.
And I, for one, will not forget it."
Poor Crack. He is a victim of those mean Jews. How dare you call me an anti-Semite just because I cal lfor the extermination of Israel.
The usual suspects come out in favor of Hamas. No surprise.
Kill all Jews. Got it.
Is George Soros handing out candy?
Breaking news -- stupid people who live with crocodiles are surprised when they become lunch.
the Soros-funded prog da in New Orleans was carjacked last weekend; NOPD had the perp in custody within 48 hours. Of course, they were well acquainted
that should sum it up!
How do you explain people who can party outside of a concentration camp wall?
=======
the ravers should have held it in Gaza to raise funds for Hamas! is my thoughtful advice!!
"jumbled"
Self-delusion on display. Hence they can really be surprised.
Now, will they reach enlightenment, i.e., realizing that leftism is inherently murdeorous, and that Jews are bound to get it first? Or is being anti-deplorable more important than Jewish self-preservation? What's it gonna be?
Biden’s 73% Jewish cabinet wanted to play Risk with a new strategy: Show the world that born-again Christian Jimmy Carter was right about Iran. This strategy has backfired spectacularly. So now the worm is turning. Jews are coming back to a Zionism they were beginning to leave … and Christians as well.
If Gaza is a prison camp (because neither neighbor state —Israel or Egypt— will allow Gazans residency or even free passage) why not look for a host country that will welcome Gazans?
Yes yes, I know it’s been tried and the results were not auspicious (or even bearable) but as the pResident said last night we must keep trying.
My first suggestion is: Iran. We could airlift a lot of Gazans to Iran in pretty short order. We learned the logistics of mass evacuation only a year or two ago, in Kabul. Just dust off those C-5s and C-17s and load ‘em up.
My second suggestion is Qatar, already playing host (and banker) to Hamas leadership.
C’mon man!
Is Silverman of decapitated head fame? A universe unto ourselves. Ironic.
Baby Lives Matter (BLM)
Iran Vows To ‘Eradicate’ the ‘Cancerous’ Jewish State, Also Accuses Israel of Genocide
Iranian Religious Mullah extremist zealot de-facto leader of Iran (& totalitarian who keeps Iranian population in the dark ages) is.... wait for it. WHITE!
“We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us” - Walt Kelly’s famous quote in his comic strip “Pogo”
Lefty and Regressive Jews have just run smack into the reality of this quote. Sarah Silverman’s “jumbled thoughts” epitomizes this. Jews have sided with the Dems for such a long time that they can’t let go of their support even though they are now considered “the enemy”. I saw this in my grandparents and I see this in my in-laws, both who are not Jewish but always voted for Dems even though their values no longer aligned with the Dems’ values. Another quote, from Ronald Reagan, would be appropriate here that applies to Jews, my late grandparents, and my in-laws: “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party - the Democratic Party left me.”.
Sarah Silverman’s podcast wasn’t the least bit jumbled or apologetic. She sums up her viewpoint with this quote posted by Viola Davis on Instagram:
"If you have less empathy towards victims because of how you you feel about their government, propaganda is working on you.”
I was starting a Jews for Jihad group, since that sentiment is all the rage right now, but before we even got the mission statement completed we were completely overwhelmed by membership requests. We probably won't get through the pending applications before sometime in 2029. I knew I should have charged a processing fee!
This is funny. What I would explain to Sarah Silverman, if she asked, as one who has spent a lot of time with liberals, is that non-Jewish liberals have learned that talking about Israel in the presence of Jews leads to a lot of unpleasantness, so they don't, which means that Jewish liberals have no idea what their non-Jewish friends really think, until it pops out occasionally. The only way to solve this problem would be for Sarah Silverman to listen and say nothing--a good way to learn generally--but that's probably not in the cards.
You may recall that Crooked Timber, though a good ways to the left of the average liberal, banned discussion of Israel for a time, because it only led to unpleasantness, until they managed to recruit an anti-Israel Jew to act as a mouthpiece for the other contributors.
Biden pulled the $6B from Iran just like Lucy pulled the football away from Charlie Brown. The hostages are still free. You gotta admire the completely justifiable application ofg bait and switch.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/us-and-qatar-agree-to-hold-off-giving-iran-6-billion-in-funds
Humperdink said...
"Crack said"
You, moron, I did not say that. I was clearly quoting Miko Peled, son of an Israeli General, and a direct relative of a signer of Israel's declaration of independence.
Now go scream that he doesn't know anything about what he's talking about.
Iman said...
Crack: Oracle or Asshole?
You decide.
Focusing on me, and ignoring the arguments made by the people I quote, is a sure sign that you're not a serious person, but just an asshole calling names. I'm going to stop talking to you people, because you're much too stupid to keep doing so.
Richard said...
"How dare you call me an anti-Semite just because I call for the extermination of Israel."
Prove it. Show me anywhere I calle3d for the extermination of Israel. This has been going on for two weeks, and I have been very vocal, so show me where I called for the extermination of Israel. It shouldn't be difficult.
Or admit you're a lying piece of shit. I know, you won't do either, because you have no integrity.
Owen said...
"If Gaza is a prison camp,..."
It's not a prison camp. It's a concentration camp. To call it a prison camp implies the Palestinians did something wrong. That they're criminals. They did not and are not. Like the Indians, here, they were just in the way, when the Zionists decided to come and take over their land.
Shoeless Joe said...
"Breaking news -- stupid people who live with crocodiles are surprised when they become lunch."
This situation is actually the moment when the crocodiles are surprised that stupid Palestinians could make them lunch.
Crack: Oracle or Asshole?
Oral asshole seems about right.
Iman said...
“Crack: Oracle or Asshole? You decide.”
Well, they are independent variables, and I dunno about the Asshole side. But for the Oracle side, we could give him a basic SQL query as a test.
---Blogger Howard said...
The Howard? The return of Howard? Could not stay away from us wise commentariers?
Rusty said...
"The usual suspects come out in favor of Hamas. No surprise.
Kill all Jews. Got it."
Who is saying this? I see no evidence of anyone backing this position. All I see is supporters of Jews, blindly and viciously calling other people antisemites, in an attempt to get people not to analyze the situation for themselves. That puts those accusers on the side of the bad guys. They - the defenders of Jews - are acting like Nazis.
Just like the Zionists are.
Sarah should take her own advice and give up her own cherished hatreds. Show us all how it's done, Sarah. Lead by example.
For years I have been warning my co-religionists with whom I matriculated at Berkeley along the appropriate "liberal" meridian back in the day that their stubborn conformity to ever-evolving "liberal" narratives would one day leave them on the outside looking in, wondering why they were on the menu instead of The Bad Guys.
Result?
Oh, but now old friends they're acting strange/
And they shake their heads and they tell me that I've changed
“Is Silverman of decapitated head fame?”
No, that was Kathy Griffin.
"The Way of the Gun". Opening scene.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5xsaMcw69D8
"[Zionism] has produced an apartheid state. An ideology like that can only produce a an apartheid state because, if you want to build a Jewish state, in an Arab country, in the heart of the Arab world, then it has to be an apartheid state, or you have to engage in genocide and ethnic cleansing. And it happens that the state of Israel has been engaged in all three."
"No [anti-Zionist] is talking about killing or exterminating anyone. In Palestine, you have 6 1/2 million Israelis and about 7 1/2 million Palestinians,...There's a serious Palestinian majority already. And I have rights, and Israelis have rights, while Palestinians live in this complex bureaucratic apartheid regime that's like a web of laws and so forth. Israelis and Palestinians CAN live together in peace. But not under an apartheid state."
- Miko Peled
@Crack
What outcome (in the Gaza Strip and/or the wider region) are you hoping for? Taking into account the present reality on the ground and the various goals of the multiple players involved. How can your desired outcome be achieved?
I'm seriously interested. While I know you will take a lot of heat for any answers, you already are anyway. I know you are a thinking person, so I doubt if you are going to go the kumbaya route. We both know that solution isn't possible.
Personally I think that Israel isn't going to meet their goal without depopulating the Gaza strip, and Palistine isn't going to meet their goal without wiping Israel off the map. I don't see any middle ground here. And both goals look unachievable. To me Iran is the real villian. My preference would be to see the present Iranian regime wiped out, but that would take more blood of innocents than the present conflict and probably involve nukes.
Israel/Palistine is a regional, not a local, conflict. It's outcome will have wide effects in the region. I try to view it in that light.
These secular progressive Jews, like feminists, are so caught up in lefty ideological bullshit they can't reason through the cognitive dissonance.
Lefties hate Israel for a variety of reason antisemitism is among them. Feminists are merely useful idiots.
Yes, Sarah, Marxism and Islamism are, ultimately antisemitic.
Yes, feminists, trans activism threatens women and girls, particularly women athletes and gender-confused teen girls.
Biden pulled the $6B from Iran just like Lucy pulled the football away from Charlie Brown.
Unfortunately it wasn't just 6b. And considering where the money is at present I doubt if it's going to stay sequestered for very long.
Sarah Silverman! Ezra Klein!
Those folks have been confused for years. That is why we laugh at them.
"They - the defenders of Jews - are acting like Nazis."
No. They are not.
Cue Woody Allen in Annie Hall: "I'm a bigot.... but for the left."
Biden sent 6 billion over to Iran. It is a lie that money got frozen. The deal is over. It's done. Already happened.
Stay focused on Climate Greta the teenager instead of the adults in charge.
March 2019:
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said.
Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism."
November 2018: "Netanyahu: Money Transfer to Hamas Is the Right Step, I Know How to Bear the Cost".
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected criticism of the transfer of $15 mln from Qatar to Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip, a move he described as a “right step at this time”.
Netanyahu defended the decision, saying it would calm tensions and prevent a Palestinian humanitarian crisis.
Crack: "All I see is supporters of Jews, blindly and viciously calling other people antisemites ...."
Documentation of Hamas genocidal intention toward the Jews is readily available. Here is an example. https://time.com/6323178/antisemitism-israel-gaza-attack-essay/
There are numerous videos of Hamas Imams calling for the extermination of Jews. Not just Israelis, Jews. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem personally called on Hitler in 1941 to extend the extermination of Jews into his domain. The Hamas charters make their intentions clear. "Decolonization" of Israel can only be accomplished by killing Jews.
There is nothing blind or vicious about calling people who endorse terrorism against, and the slaughter of, Jews antisemites. That is what they are.
We know you know that.
God she's an awful person. Anti-Christian, stupid, vulgar, and full of Jewish Pride and Privilage. If I was worried about antisemitism I'd keep her off social media and TV.
The Viet Cong, while they didn't actually behead babies (wimps), did on occasion practice judicious massacres of their opponents. The left was mostly mute about these tactics. What differentiates Hamas them from other third world liberation movements is that their targets are Jews. Terror is an acceptable tactic for radicals and has been for years. Jewish radicals are somewhat hypocritical in their opposition to Hamas.....Maybe if Hamas said that their goal was to equitably share the wealth of Israel with all the poorer citizens of that area, Jew and Arab alike, then Silverman could get on board with them.
These libtard Jewish Americans have ignored all violence by their sacred People of Color against Jews so I guess it comes as a huge shock when something that can't be ignored happens to Israel.
The chanting lefties Silverman feels so hurt and betrayed by are not antisemites, they're antihumans. They just want more violence, more war, more death, but for others and at a safe remove from themselves. They don't care about the things they chant. They'd chant anything that provoked violence and destruction. They hate everyone. They hate themselves most of all.
Leftists have been expressing outrage for days at the "shock" of discovering anti semitism on their side. I've known it for decades, perhaps they should pay better attention.
I don't think the Arabs live in apartheid because the Jews think them inferior. They live in an apartheid state because they have the annoying habit of killing the nearest available Jew when the spirit moves them....The Shiites of Iraq lived in peace with their Sunni neighbors because Saddam took the precaution of killing every Shiite who didn't want to live in peace with his Sunni neighbors. Perhaps Saddam offers a useful lesson for Israel... Massacres are a common occurrence in that region. A lot of them had a much higher body count than the current carnage and didn't attract much notice....If you kill Jews, it gets the world's attention. If Jews kill back, it gets even more attention. People like to be either supportive or critical of Jews in a different way than with other peoples.
I don't think the Arabs live in apartheid because the Jews think them inferior. They live in an apartheid state because they have the annoying habit of killing the nearest available Jew when the spirit moves them....The Shiites of Iraq lived in peace with their Sunni neighbors because Saddam took the precaution of killing every Shiite who didn't want to live in peace with his Sunni neighbors. Perhaps Saddam offers a useful lesson for Israel... Massacres are a common occurrence in that region. A lot of them had a much higher body count than the current carnage and didn't attract much notice....If you kill Jews, it gets the world's attention. If Jews kill back, it gets even more attention. People like to be either supportive or critical of Jews in a different way than with other peoples.
pacwest said...
"@Crack
What outcome (in the Gaza Strip and/or the wider region) are you hoping for? Taking into account the present reality on the ground and the various goals of the multiple players involved. How can your desired outcome be achieved?"
Whether in Israel or here, I'm always hoping for common sense to prevail, but that's not easy when every criticism of Israel is unfairly equated with antisemitism. Not to mention, they've already defended this bad idea by spilling blood. I'm honestly not sure what should be done, except that everybody physically "protesting" should probably shut the fuck up. We need to lower the temperature, and speak clearly, but they just don't seem to want to do that. That's a sign they're full of shit. Somehow, the Israelis have to come to terms with how they're living, and how they want to live. Barbarity is not as good a fit, with their religion, as Islam. Where is the Israeli Martin Luther King?
When I see the way conservatives, here, twist the message of King, trying to make him an enemy of his own people by focusing on one line about character in his "I have a dream" speech while ignoring everything else he's said over his lifetime - then how difficult it is becomes obvious. But so does who is responsible for the difficulty.
I mostly think the villain is the human condition, because, for instance, that's what's making some people insist on calling other people antisemites when there's no evidence of it. That's also what's keeping them from providing evidence, and thinking no one's noticed they're morally bankrupt. That's what makes them stand against reparations, when they know the country made a deal and then broke it. Some people just don't want to give in. Even when they know they're wrong. And no, I don't have an answer for the human condition.
I also think this is as much religious as it is political, and thus, it can swallow the world. Mostly because we don't want to deal with what religion does, other than charity and whatnot. The fact that it's social poison, adding a layer of deceit to the human condition, is side-lined. So there's a good chance everything could spiral out of our control with hardly anybody understanding how it happened.
BUT
Lastly, I think a lot about how my marriage, with my wife's cult dreams, came apart. It didn't happen because I was looking for cultism, but because I found something odd, and started to "pull that string" which made everything (she was up to) unravel before me. I see that happening in the world more often than I expected. Certain things get dislodged, because people were looking at something else, and stumbled upon the truth. It could happen to the Israeli situation as well as any other. I think the point is that the truth is there, waiting to be discovered. It didn't take me very long, after a close look, to decide Israel was the aggressor here. As long as that's the case, they're in trouble. And coming to terms with that is their only hope.
If they don't wanna be mass murderers, in the end. And I hope they don't.
pacwest said...
"@Crack
What outcome (in the Gaza Strip and/or the wider region) are you hoping for? Taking into account the present reality on the ground and the various goals of the multiple players involved. How can your desired outcome be achieved?"
Whether in Israel or here, I'm always hoping for common sense to prevail, but that's not easy when every criticism of Israel is unfairly equated with antisemitism. Not to mention, they've already defended this bad idea by spilling blood. I'm honestly not sure what should be done, except that everybody physically "protesting" should probably shut the fuck up. We need to lower the temperature, and speak clearly, but they just don't seem to want to do that. That's a sign they're full of shit. Somehow, the Israelis have to come to terms with how they're living, and how they want to live. Barbarity is not as good a fit, with their religion, as Islam. Where is the Israeli Martin Luther King?
When I see the way conservatives, here, twist the message of King, trying to make him an enemy of his own people by focusing on one line about character in his "I have a dream" speech while ignoring everything else he's said over his lifetime - then how difficult it is becomes obvious. But so does who is responsible for the difficulty.
I mostly think the villain is the human condition, because, for instance, that's what's making some people insist on calling other people antisemites when there's no evidence of it. That's also what's keeping them from providing evidence, and thinking no one's noticed they're morally bankrupt. That's what makes them stand against reparations, when they know the country made a deal and then broke it. Some people just don't want to give in. Even when they know they're wrong. And no, I don't have an answer for the human condition.
I also think this is as much religious as it is political, and thus, it can swallow the world. Mostly because we don't want to deal with what religion does, other than charity and whatnot. The fact that it's social poison, adding a layer of deceit to the human condition, is side-lined. So there's a good chance everything could spiral out of our control with hardly anybody understanding how it happened.
BUT
Lastly, I think a lot about how my marriage, with my wife's cult dreams, came apart. It didn't happen because I was looking for cultism, but because I found something odd, and started to "pull that string" which made everything (she was up to) unravel before me. I see that happening in the world more often than I expected. Certain things get dislodged, because people were looking at something else, and stumbled upon the truth. It could happen to the Israeli situation as well as any other. I think the point is that the truth is there, waiting to be discovered. It didn't take me very long, after a close look, to decide Israel was the aggressor here. As long as that's the case, they're in trouble. And coming to terms with that is their only hope.
If they don't wanna be mass murderers, in the end. And I hope they don't.
" The Crack Emcee said...
Richard said...
"How dare you call me an anti-Semite just because I call for the extermination of Israel."
Prove it. Show me anywhere I calle3d for the extermination of Israel. This has been going on for two weeks, and I have been very vocal, so show me where I called for the extermination of Israel. It shouldn't be difficult.
Or admit you're a lying piece of shit. I know, you won't do either, because you have no integrity."
You support Hamas, a genocidal group of terrorists. What do you think will happen if Hamas were to win the war? I will give you a hint - the extermination of Israel.
Crack: "To call it a prison camp implies the Palestinians did something wrong. That they're criminals. They did not and are not. Like the Indians, here, they were just in the way, when the Zionists decided to come and take over their land."
Of course. There is nothing criminal about raining thousands of missiles on populated areas and otherwise killing Israeli-Jew civilians./S Yet it is neither a prison camp nor a concentration camp. It is Hamas and the refusal of Arab states to take them that prevents them from leaving. Why?
"Like the Indians...." Really? Do you have any idea of history? Who created Israel?How many living Palestinians actually resided in Israel? Do Islamists commit terrorist acts elsewhere? Israel is the size of New Jersey in a vast land. Why is it so important - other than antisemitism?
"People can get killed for those kind of slanders now. And yet these people do not check themselves. They're reckless, dangerous, and stupid."
So, Crack, calling people anti-semites is dangerous? What about calling people racist-racist-racist-racist-racist-racist-racist ......
Crack, why are you running, boy?
“ How do you explain people who can party outside of a concentration camp wall?”
So if you believe Gaza is a concentration camp, then you want its people to move out of Gaza - and go somewhere else, right? You don’t want them to stay in Gaza, the concentration camp, right?
"Only the Nazis exhibited such rigid thinking. And only the Nazis made a habit of trying to shut thinking down."
Yeah, it is a noteworthy aspect of history, both ancient and recent, that every single society that ever existed was fluid in their thinking and eager to embrace the ideas of others. Except for those damned Nazis!
“I'm going to stop talking to you people, because you're much too stupid to keep doing so.”
Promise?
"That is a supremacist, racist ideology. Without any doubt."
Y'know, Crack, I have to agree with you here. A bunch of wealthy Jews in Europe, Russia and the US decided there should be a Jewish homeland. They looked around, and considered South America, and Madagascar, but they finally settled on Israel (Betcha Madagascar is looking pretty good right about now). So they twisted a bunch of arms, and got the Balfour Declaration, and started buying up property in the Holy Land, and when the time was right, they drove out most of the original inhabitants. Sounds kind of like how America got started, doesn't it?
And so what? So you are on the side of the guys who fly hang-gliders into music concerts to rape and kill people they don't know? I'm sure they'd be happy to have you come join them. Well, actually, maybe not. They might decide to kill you, or take you hostage. I doubt they'd rape you much.
pacwest,
I have been posting the comments of people who, I think, are being honest in grappling with what's going on. I strongly suggest checking them out. Their answers are almost always better than mine. Being an atheist, I've rarely even considered going to Israel. None of that land is "holy" to me. It's just a museum for man's delusions.
Here's something I just heard:
The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals. That was certainly true of the Americans who gave the Zionists the go-ahead.
I've told you, whether this is true or not, this is how the rest of the world sees white America today.
"Biden's "arsenal of democracy" comment last night is worrisome. Now we're just going to arm the rest of the world with American weapons so they can kill each other?"
That does seem to be the plan. Money for Ukraine, money for Israel, money for Iran, money for Afghanistan, money for Hamas. You broke? Need a little cash? Start a war, baby. It's almost like the people running the US regime don't really care who kills whom, as long as they use weapons systems made by Raytheon and Northrupp. Do you think anyone in DC knows anyone at Raytheon or Northrupp? Maybe has dinner with them once in a while?
"I don't think the Arabs live in apartheid because the Jews think them inferior."
Well, that must be because you don't know jack-shit about the subject. You don't know thing one, Buddy. Crack is entirely correct that Israel is an apartheid state, in which only Jews have full legal rights. That is a reality, which can easily be checked. And that reality stems from the fact that the Jewish religion, which is the ideological basis for the State of Israel, quite explicitly regards non-Jews as "goyim", who are literally no better than animals. All true, unfortunately, and not going to get better, either. Read it and weep, sucker.
“ The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals. ”
The reason black Americans can’t see that Arabs wronged the Jews is because black Americans are racists who already have an image of all non-blacks - whites, Jews, Asians as evil oppressors. They are ready to condone any atrocity in the name of “anti-colonialism”.
Btw, “Palestinians” are considered “white” in the USA.
"The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals."
Well, I don't think that's exactly right, Crack, but you're on the right track. To the extent that white Americans support Israel (not all do), it is largely because a) we grew up under a Jewish Hollywood propaganda regime (Remember Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint in Exodus?), and
b) we can't help but notice that the Palestinians are a bunch of vicious savages who marry their cousins. If it weren't for the UN, they'd all have starved to death or fled ages ago. So, they are basically a class of perpetual victims, kept around by a bunch of do-gooders to cement their claim on wealth and power. Kind of like American negroes and the Democrats.
“ when the time was right, they drove out most of the original inhabitants.”
The argument that Arabs are the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth is preposterous.
I'm calling the Israel/Gaza reaction by Jews as the moment when blind cancel culture and woke culture cracked. Too many people care about survival to care about abstract fantasies of diversity and tolerance for people who hate them with every fiber of their being.
The pendulum is swinging back to tribalism and nationalism posthaste.
Cruel Silverman earned a place in hypocrisy hell a long time ago, so let her wolf friends eat her now.
“ You don't know thing one, Buddy. Crack is entirely correct that Israel is an apartheid state, in which only Jews have full legal rights. ”
Of course, Arabs have full rights in Israel - so much so, that Arabs in sprawl have more rights than Arabs in Arab majority states, let alone Jews in any moslem states.
The segment of society that opposes Israel uses a motte and bailey argument. The Palestinian people are the motte, they are women and children who don’t hate anyone and just live there suffering, who could not want to help them. The bailey is Hamas, they are killers of Israeli civilians. When they loose the argument that Hamas is just fighting oppression they run back into the motte and talk about women and children.
The situation is similar to Edward I in the braveheart movie, The problem with Gaza, is that it is full of Palestinians! In truth, 14th century Scotland was run by steel bonneted brigands, kidnappers, and cattle thieves, and in order to civilize the border England had to go in and fight the men who were doing it, and this hurt the women and children who were living off the profits of theft. The women knew what was going on. On a national scale, if you fight the nazis, you hurt their families, if you defeat Napoleon, you hurt the families of the French army. When you eliminate southern slavery, you starve the families who fought for slavery. You can’t start helping them until you can win and impose civil control in a just way. When the snowball of evil starts rolling, someone gets crushed.
Unfortunately the Palestinians have picked assholes to lead them. They can’t go to Egypt because they wanted to fight a civil war alongside the Moslem Bros. They can’t go to Jordan because they wanted to depose their king, not very good guests. So in conclusion, perhaps Sherman was right and you need to have a short bloody war to root out the evil, and when the land is blasted flat everyone can grow from there.
This topic certainly shines a bright light on who people really are.
DanTheMan said...
"Cue Woody Allen in Annie Hall: "I'm a bigot.... but for the left."
Consolidated (an extreme-Left SF band I was associated with) used that joke.
"The argument that Arabs are the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth is preposterous."
Well, OK, hypho. The "original" inhabitants of that part of the world were some sort of dinosaurs. Whatever. The mostly European Jews who fought a war to found the State of Israel fought it with someone, right? Leon Uris didn't make that part up, did he?
"Of course, Arabs have full rights in Israel."
I have heard, that Socrates and his friends sat around all night arguing about whether women have fewer teeth than men. They never once thought to get his wife out of bed and check to see. You'd have fit right in.
hombre said...
"We know you know that."
I know that too many people can't seem to make a distinction between what's happening to the Palestinians and the role of Hamas. They're more than happy to blame the Palestinians for what Hamas does, when they know the world is not defending the Palestinian's position, and Hamas is. Even you are telling me about "Hamas Imams" and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and even "The Hamas charters," when the issue is THE PALESTINIANS - who you don't mention once and don't even notice the oversight. THAT's the problem. How 7 1/2 million people can be forgotten by everybody - while we're watching them being slaughtered - is a phenomenon sure to confound any objective observer.
“ Well, OK, hypho. The "original" inhabitants of that part of the world were some sort of dinosaurs. Whatever.”
You called Arabs the “original inhabitants” of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth. Apparently, Arabs were there before the Jews. That’s your point, right?
“The mostly European Jews who fought a war to found the State of Israel fought it with someone, right? Leon Uris didn't make that part up, did he?”
True, the Jews fought to defend themselves from the invasion of the armies of 6 Arab countries. The day they founded the state of Israel on a tiny portion of what is called “mandate palestine”, the Arabs invaded Israel and tried to slaughter them all.
William said...
"I don't think the Arabs live in apartheid because the Jews think them inferior. They live in an apartheid state because they have the annoying habit of killing the nearest available Jew when the spirit moves them"
Propaganda. I don't see how anyone can misunderstand what went down there, but y'all seem determined: All you have to imagine is someone walking into your house, right now, and saying it's theirs because they used to live there, years ago, and you can start to see the problem. The Zionists (now in your house) think, because they want to fix it up, that means they're better tenants of it than you are - again, forgetting that you live there and they don't. The Zionists even fought off your friends, who tried to get them to move, which the Zionists think means, now, that they even have MORE of a right to live there, instead of you. When the issue, all along is, that's YOUR house.
There is nothing about that story that passes the smell test.
Richard said...
"You support Hamas, a genocidal group of terrorists."
Jesus, you did exactly what I said you'd do: you came back with no evidence. Just an accusation.
"What do you think will happen if Hamas were to win the war? I will give you a hint - the extermination of Israel."
First, it's not my job to protect Israel. Second, it's not yours, either. Zionists came up with this bad idea, and they can deal with the consequences of their actions. As I keep pointing out, my old neighborhood in Los Angeles has been taken over by Mexicans, and none of you have said shit to do anything about it or to give me any comfort. You just pretend I'm an Israeli and let the chips fall where they may. You're full of shit.
hombre said...
"Of course. There is nothing criminal about raining thousands of missiles on populated areas and otherwise killing Israeli-Jew civilians...... After they've been occupying your land for the last 75 years. That's how you get to "unprovoked attacks," right? You just forget the 75 years of bullshit that came before it.
See how you leave out the most important part? Because it's the part that flips everything upside-down and makes the Palestinians the good guys and everyone else an interloper.
Jupiter said...
"So, Crack, calling people anti-semites is dangerous? What about calling people racist-racist-racist-racist-racist-racist-racist ......"
When those people are standing against American values, and claiming reparations aren't due, after the country broke a deal? Come on. You guys always wanna forget whatever provoked the trouble. You only want to deal with the last thing that happened. You're no better than the media, constantly looking for the new stories as you forget about the last one.
That's how racists behave.
yphenated American said...
"So if you believe Gaza is a concentration camp, then you want its people to move out of Gaza - and go somewhere else, right? You don’t want them to stay in Gaza, the concentration camp, right?"
No, I want them back in their houses, in Palestine. But the Zionists are in them now. And you seem to have this cockamamie idea that that's OK. Why don't you consider moving them to wherever you would put the Palestinians, since that is the Palestinians home?
Iman said...
“I'm going to stop talking to you people, because you're much too stupid to keep doing so.”
Promise?
This is your last reply from me.
Jupiter said...
"So you are on the side of the guys who fly hang-gliders into music concerts to rape and kill people they don't know?"
Why do you guys talk so stupidly? You know I'm an atheist, so why do you insist I have a side between two religious groups? I'm trying to act more like a Judge, looking at two defendants before me, making a claim for a single piece of property. Does a judge usually have a side? Or does he just decide who's in the right? Does a judge usually look at the last act, one of the two defendants perpetrated, and decide, "Oh, well, that settles it - you're in the wrong"? What does a judge look at everything both sides have done and put everything into context?
You guys are viciously arguing for everybody to be an unfair judge.
Hyphenated American said...
"The reason black Americans can’t see that Arabs wronged the Jews is because black Americans are racists who already have an image of all non-blacks - whites, Jews, Asians as evil oppressors."
Maybe, but there's also the fact we can read.
Jupiter said...
"The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals."
Well, I don't think that's exactly right, Crack, but you're on the right track.
You guys, when I put something in quotes, that means they aren't my words. I just want you to see them.
Hyphenated American said...
“ when the time was right, they drove out most of the original inhabitants.”
The argument that Arabs are the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth is preposterous.
Not at the time the Zionists arrived, which is the point. The Jews were returning after 3000 years, and you wanna forget/ignore what happened for the previous 3000 years.
Hyphenated American said...
"Of course, Arabs have full rights in Israel"
Dude, if that was true, Israel wouldn't be a Jewish country because Arabs outnumber them.
Old and slow said...
"This topic certainly shines a bright light on who people really are."
If someone was to walk into your house, right now, and claim it was theirs, because they lived there before - and you have to go - you would expect me to defend you.
Now, shine a bright light on who you really are.
Jupiter said...
"I have heard, that Socrates and his friends sat around all night arguing about whether women have fewer teeth than men. They never once thought to get his wife out of bed and check to see. You'd have fit right in."
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Hyphenated American said...
“ Well, OK, hypho. The "original" inhabitants of that part of the world were some sort of dinosaurs. Whatever.”
You called Arabs the “original inhabitants” of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth. Apparently, Arabs were there before the Jews. That’s your point, right?
No, Arabs were there when the Zionists arrived. What's the point. You can't come back after 2000 years and try to kick people off of the property, claiming it's yours.
I'm sure the Israelis would welcome back any Palestinians who were actually displaced 75 years ago, if any can be found, in exchange for cessation of rocket attacks and terrorism.
“This is your last reply from me.”
Goodbye, Mr. Counterfactual Counterproductive.
American mother and daughter taken hostage by Hamas are RELEASED from Gaza almost two weeks after massacre and kidnappings in Israel
American mother and daughter taken hostage by Hamas are RELEASED from Gaza almost two weeks after massacre and kidnappings in Israel
"True, the Jews fought to defend themselves from the invasion of the armies of 6 Arab countries."
Hmmmm.... And they won. Right? So then the soldiers in the armies of those 6 Arab countries all had to go back where they came from, in the 6 Arab countries. So where did all these "refugees" come from, Hypho? Why didn't they just go back home to their 6 Arab countries and kvetch with their loved ones in the peace and privacy of their sunlit gardens?
"You called Arabs the “original inhabitants” of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth. Apparently, Arabs were there before the Jews. That’s your point, right?"
No, my point was that the reason the European Jews had to fight a war for Israel was that there were people there already who did not want to hand it over to them. How long those people had been there is not really relevant. But I see you have a talking point that you are eager to deploy, relevant or no.
You know, Crack isn't right about this, but he isn't wrong, either. There aren't any good guys in this situation. The ongoing attempt to demonstrate by reasoned argument that one side or the other is "right" is unlikely to convince anyone who was not convinced already. It seems evident to me that the closest thing to a solution that would make everybody happy would be to make a second copy of Israel, and hand it over to one side or the other, so they could both have one. After that, they would only hate each other's filthy guts for all the rotten things they have already done to each other. But that ain't going to happen.
"When those people are standing against American values, and claiming reparations aren't due, after the country broke a deal?"
"Broke a deal"? Crack, you wake up every morning in a bedroom stolen from the Indians, put on clothes stolen from the Indians, drink your coffee and eat your breakfast, also, of course, stolen from Indians, and then you go out and walk the streets of your fair city, which used to belong to Indians. Maybe you even drive a car, produced in one of the factories we stole from those poor Indians. And you have the gall to ask someone else for reparations? You'd better hope those Indians don't find out about hang gliders.
Sarah Silverman claims she was ‘stoned’ when she endorsed Israeli move to shut off Gaza’s water, electricity
Crack:
“ "So if you believe Gaza is a concentration camp, then you want its people to move out of Gaza - and go somewhere else, right? You don’t want them to stay in Gaza, the concentration camp, right?"
No, I want them back in their houses, in Palestine. But the Zionists are in them now. And you seem to have this cockamamie idea that that's OK. Why don't you consider moving them to wherever you would put the Palestinians, since that is the Palestinians home?”
So if there is an option of freeing Arabs from the Gaza “concentration camps” and letting them go to Egypt - you would not support it. Correct? You would rather they live in the concentration camp, than in free Egypt. Why?
You would rather that multiple generations of Gazan Arabs born in Gaza stayed in the concentration camp in Gaza, than go to Egypt, because you hope that one day they will go to Israel and kick out the Jews. Why?
“ I mostly think the villain is the human condition, because, for instance, that's what's making some people insist on calling other people antisemites when there's no evidence of it.”
You want all the Jews to be kicked out of Israel, the land of their ancestors, and you are upset when people call you “antisemitic”.
'You want all the Jews to be kicked out of Israel, the land of their ancestors, and you are upset when people call you “antisemitic”.'
Hypho, whose ancestors' land are you living on? Are you maybe an inhabitant of Antarctica, so you only need to worry about penguins?
“ All you have to imagine is someone walking into your house, right now, and saying it's theirs because they used to live there, years ago, and you can start to see the problem. ”
That’s the perfect description of Arabs who live in Gaza now, they wish to go to Israel and push the Jews out, because almost a century ago their grand-grand parents allegedly lived there.
“ The Jews were returning after 3000 years, and you wanna forget/ignore what happened for the previous 3000 years.”
1. Jews always maintained their presence in the land of Israel.
2. To argue that Jews were gone from Israel for 3000 years is preposterous. What year is it now? 3023?
3. Arabs migrated to Israel in the 19th and 20th century. Back in the 19th century, the place es largely empty, while the Jews were a majority in Jerusalem.
“ No, my point was that the reason the European Jews had to fight a war for Israel was that there were people there already who did not want to hand it over to them. ”
There was no demand to handover anything. Jews simply wanted to live peacefully with Arabs in Israel, not kick out anybody. But Arabs wanted to kill all the Jews.
“ So then the soldiers in the armies of those 6 Arab countries all had to go back where they came from, in the 6 Arab countries. So where did all these "refugees" come from, Hypho?”
During the war, hundreds of thousands of Jews and Arabs moved - Jews moved from moslem controlled territories to Israel, Arabs to moslem controlled territories.
There were millions of Jewish refugees from the moslem countries.
Hyphenated American said...
"You want all the Jews to be kicked out of Israel, the land of their ancestors, and you are upset when people call you “antisemitic”."
You said kicked out. I never said it. I see Jews as moral people who should have enough integrity and common sense to leave.
Zionism was a bad idea.
"Sarah Silverman claims she was ‘stoned’ when she endorsed Israeli move to shut off Gaza’s water, electricity"
So when you told me you like the Jews, were you lying to me, or where you stupid?
I was drunk.
Those brave, baby-killing warriors Hamas.
One thing I have learned from the Middle East and other places now is that you should never allow immigrants ever. If you do then you are at risk of being subjugated by them. Tibet should have kept out the Chinese, the Indians should have kept out the Pilgrims, The Spanish Visigoths should have kept out the Moors, The Romans should have kept out the Germans, Oregon should have kept out the Californians, The Palestinians should have kept out the Jews, the Xhosas should have kept out the Zulu, The Blacks of Watts should have kept out the Hispanics, the Near West Side of Chicago should have kept out the gays and yuppies, and the Aztecs should have kept out the Spanish. Immigrants are bad medicine, in a practical sense, because they may be stronger than you are.
History shows immigrants are dangerous.
Crack sez… “The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals. That was certainly true of the Americans who gave the Zionists the go-ahead.
I've told you, whether this is true or not, this is how the rest of the world sees white America today.”
I wonder how the rest of the world sees black Americans. Rightly or wrongly.
@Crack.
Thanks for the link. If I understood he is arguing for the one state solution although I never heard him use that wording. I don't think he ever mentioned right to return. Israel would be slitting their own throats if they agreed to one state with right to return, and Palistine won't agree without it. I don't think the two state solution is workable as long as Iran is involved. The US isn't the only country who likes proxy wars.
Crack:
“ . I see Jews as moral people who should have enough integrity and common sense to leave.
Zionism was a bad idea.”
So you believe that all Jews should leave the land of their ancestors, destroy the country they built 75 years ago and heave. Why? Go where?
But you don’t think that arabs who live in, as you call it “ Gaza concentration camp” should leave Gaza and move to adjacent Egypt, the country they are originally from - because - you wont explain why.
You don’t think Gaza arabs have enough common sense and integrity to go back to Egypt? Or there is a necessity for them to leave the com e ration camp?
Jupiter:
“ Hypho, whose ancestors' land are you living on? Are you maybe an inhabitant of Antarctica, so you only need to worry about penguins?”
So your argument is simple - forget whose land it was in the past, let’s concentrate on the present.
I agree. Jews control Israel. Gaza Arabs should forget what happened 75 years ago and go on with their life - hopefully moving to Egypt, since Gaza is too small for them.
Agreed?
Hyphenated American said...
"They wish to go to Israel and push the Jews out, because almost a century ago their grand-grand parents allegedly lived there"
You're trying to deny or minimize the Palestinians claim. They were run out at gunpoint and not all of them are dead. Come on. I'm 62, which is old enough to remember Jim Crow. You guys talk like everyone who experienced it is dead, but that's not true. You're doing the same thing about Palestine. I've seen quotes from Moshe Dayan saying, we can't be mad at these people, because look at what we've done to them. Now, if Moshe Dayan can admit it - and his job was protecting Israel - then why can't you?
Facing facts is a big part of getting to the crux of this.
Crack said :“The reason, white Americans can't see that Israel wronged the Palestinians, is because white Americans are racists who already have an image of people of color as criminals. That was certainly true of the Americans who gave the Zionists the go-ahead.
I've told you, whether this is true or not, this is how the rest of the world sees white America today. “
I think it’s more that white Americans associate certain types of crimes with certain ethnicities. In Texas, I can tag the ethnicity of the perp 90% of the time from the headline. At the same time, it’s unreasonable to presume that any individual you might encounter will exhibit the tendencies of groups of which they are involuntarily a member. But wake me when a group of Japanese Americans do an en masse looting of a Nordstrom’s, or stab each other over who gets to carve the Thanksgiving turkey.
@Jupiter - I can still cheer for one side over another in a fight between two parties, neither of whom are good guys.
For Crack American….
“You're trying to deny or minimize the Palestinians claim. “
I think it’s the opposite. You are completely denying any Jewish claims.
“They were run out at gunpoint and not all of them are dead. “
1. Arabs started the war of extermination against the Jews. Not the Jew started the war - Arabs did.
2. Most Arabs left Israel and went to their original homelands in multiple Arab countries - partly because Arab states told them to evacuate, partly because they were afraid that Jews would treat them the same way they had treated the Jews, and a minority because Jews kicked them out.
3. Jews were also forced at gun point to live territories controlled by the Arabs - in numbers exceeding the number of Arabs forced by the Jews.
“Come on. I'm 62, which is old enough to remember Jim Crow. “
Assuming you can remember thing from the age of 7, it means you lived under Jim Crow in 1969. Yes?
Btw, you need to remember that Jews lived under Islamic Jim Crow for centuries. Do you concede that? That Jews had no rights (and still have no rights) in most of Islamic countries. Yes?
“You guys talk like everyone who experienced it is dead, but that's not true. “
How many Arabs alive today who were at least 7 years old in 1948? That’s 82 years old.
But most importantly - Arabs tried ti exterminate the Jews, lost the war, and from then complained about the Jews. Well, they started the war of extermination, havent they? How many Germans were allowed to stay in Poland after ww2?
“You're doing the same thing about Palestine. “
Let’s define the terms, what do you mean by “Palestine”? Is it a country? An area? People? When did these people seize being Arabs from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon Syria, and become “Palestinians”? There were no “ Palestinians” 100 years ago, there were only arab migrants from neighboring Arab places - and Jews were majority in Jerusalem starting mid 19th century. Yes, there were Jews, who wanted to rebuild Israel and live in peace with Arabs. But there were no Palestinians, no Palestinian state, no movement for Palestinian state.
‘I've seen quotes from Moshe Dayan saying, we can't be mad at these people, because look at what we've done to them. Now, if Moshe Dayan can admit it - and his job was protecting Israel - then why can't you?”
So because one Jews says something, we all have to agree with him? But another Jew says something else. So who is right?
“Facing facts is a big part of getting to the crux of this.”
Let’s do that, Sir. Let’s examine the facts. Do you wish Arabs in Israel to have same civil rights as Jews had under Islamic rule? Do you wish israel to treat Arabs as Jews have been treated for centuries by arabs?
Well said, hyphenated American @10:02PM!
Since Louis FarraCrack is so fired up on this thing, it’s hard to really keep track of what he has a point on and what he’s full of crack about. But the trail of breadcrumbs is clear. Certainly black antisemitism is just as real now as it was when black liberation movements and the Nation of Islam pronounced whites as devils and Jews as interlopers. The Palestinians - like Black Americans - are filled with murderous envy at Jews for actually knowing their own history, when their own either dead-ends at the Middle Passage or gets very murky prior to Zionism. And then black Americans resent the hell out of any whites who assisted in overcoming Jim Crow - especially Jews. I think they feel that if Jews were white Europe’s and Islam’s n-word, then why can’t black Americans look down upon them too.
I see Jews as moral people
Then maybe you should try learning from them every now and then instead of thinking you know better.
Facing facts is a big part of getting to the crux of this.
It all depends on which facts matter to you and what your larger point is or what kind of story you want to create. Certainly the Palestinians hate the facts of all the archaeology and contemporary history that shows how active Jewish history was in the land when Western Civilization was born. They hate all the historical facts that Jews learned from 2,000 years in Europe and the rest of the Middle East. They hate the fact of the UN partition, its acceptance of Israeli statehood, and the fact that they built a functional country in fifty years that they hadn’t made out of the place in 2,000. Or 200. Or however long Palestinians like to pretend that they were doing anything notable in the name of their so-called nation.
Facts are also not on FarraCrack’s side when he claims that there are more Arabs than Jews in Israel. 73.6% is not outnumbered. 21.1% is not outnumbering. And of course all this presupposes that even one of the many non-Jewish groups in Israel want anything to do with the sorry excuses for government that the Palis have birthed in the form the PLO and ISIS/Hamas. Fact is - present government under Netanyahu excluded - Israel has come much further in creating a functional, pluralistic, multi-ethnic democracy than Palestine has or would. Maybe they’ll take it further. But none of that matters in FarraCrack’s analysis since he just wants to use Palestine as the model for what he wishes he could do to America but never can: Depopulate it of the “settlers.”
I’m also noticing that Macho FarraCrack takes every word Miko Peled says as Gospel. Must be the new messiah. Anyway, FarraCrack has never been to the country to see for himself if any of that is true, and from what I can tell Peled seems to have bought into the Ilan Pappe accounts hook, line and sinker. While Pappe has helped uncover some of the darker moments in Israeli history, keep in mind that the guy is an actual communist, so you can hopefully better appreciate how much sense his dream of making Israel a part of the great Arabian national caliphate makes.
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