In an interview that aired on CNN on Sunday, Mr. Gaetz, Mr. McCarthy’s main tormentor, said he would do just that. By bringing up a measure called a “motion to vacate,” he can call a snap vote on whether to keep Mr. McCarthy in his post.
I like the phrase "main tormentor." Seems like the writer wanted to say "arch nemesis" and knew she needed to tone it down for NYT standards.
I think I'd use the word "antagonist" (or "adversary") to be genteel. I mean, "tormenter" calls to mind physical torture. I looked it up in the OED and see that it originally referred to an "officer who inflicts torture." That goes back to the 1200s. More recently, since the 1500s, it's meant "One who or that which persistently inflicts intense pain, suffering, vexation, or annoyance."
In 1642, John Milton — in "Apology for Smectymnuus"— wrote: "For certainly this tormenter of semicolons is as good at dismembring and slitting sentences, as his grave Fathers the Prelates have bin at stigmatizing & slitting noses."
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McCarthy made a lot of promises in order to get where he is, and is now shocked that he's expected to honor those promises. Instead, he's tried to backpedal wherever possible, pissing off the base to no end, while making himself look weak to Dems. He had plenty of opportunities to build political capital with the base and the more hard-line elements of the GOP; capital which he could have now expended to pass a compromise budget. He failed to do so, and is now paying the political price. For his part, Biden is in no better position. He likely could get a budget passed with Ukraine funding, if he were willing to accept significant cuts in other areas, along with some concessions to the right on other issues such as regulatory reform, oil and gas leases, etc. But doing so would spark a backlash from the left-wing base.
In many ways, this budget fight is symbolic of the failures of the western political class over decades.
The CR bought 45 days.
Whether or not a “motion to vacate” is taken up or passes during that time, Gaetz damn well knows McCarthy's feet need to be held to the fire to move the Speaker in the right direction of upholding his original promises to the caucus.
I'm sure Gaetz would call that "keeping McCarthy honest," not "torment."
Reminds me of the old Truman quotation:
"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." - Harry S. Truman
Gaetz gets snippets of airtime, so I can't figure out whether or not he would make sense if he had 15 minutes to explain himself. All I hear is a hunger for confrontation without regard for tactical prudence.
Why is Gaetz a tormentor? I see him as a man of principle. There are only a handful in Congress with the guts to stand up to the power and hold them to their promises. Good for Gaetz. Good for Rand Paul. I wish we had 535 of them in Congress.
The GOP holds the house by a thread. A thread.
2 seats, right? - Boebert, in CO - and that oddball in NYC.
Boebert was a rising star and she got elected to her Colorado District because she spoke clearly about the issues and her district approved, & she won as a fresh face and a fresh voice. Her second time at the ballot box (because the left are successful trashing all the R's non-stop with their state-run media machine) she barely won. Now - she has turned herself into a "brand" and acts like a jerk in public (for some unknown reason) and is doing all she can to throw her seat away.. (sadly) (btw- I'm not in her district - but I would still vote for her, if I could. but I can't because I'm not in her district.)
Biden and his D-creeps added and are adding relentless unsustainable debt and spending.
The D party kicks formerly terrible spending measures into the stratosphere. Backup a bit - with Trump's strong economy - and without the very purposeful targeted release of the Covid virus to ensure the corruptocratic win - our debt situation would not be as catastrophic. but here we are. Kevin is damned not matter what he does.
If the GOP held the house with larger numbers... we might not be having this conversation.
When turncoat Republicans are literally FUNDING the Democrat Party's initiatives, then yes it's time to cut them off at their knees. A true opposition political party doesn't PAY the operatives of the other party.
That's treason in politics.
“Article I, section 5 of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member."
The solution to the right-wing extremists in the House (or Senate). Only two-thirds need to "expel a member". I think McCarthy should respond by moving to expel Gaetz.
Hopefully the Republicans continue eating their own all the way through 2024.
Given that they don't have a majority. might enough Democrats vote to keep McCarthy as Speaker to keep him in office? Should that happen, wouldn't Graetz lose all his leverage?
Let the games begin.
And whom does Gaetz believe can replace McCarthy with?
There is not a whole lot that can be done with a four seat majority. That is just the reality of the situation.
I do not buy that the tRump Swabs are concerned about spending. They say nothing about the true drivers of deficits, SS and Medicare, because their Lord and Savior, Donald “The Fat Tub of Goo” Trump has declared them untouchable.
2026, when Gaetz gets crushed running for Florida Governorship and is out of politics forever cannot come soon enough.
What would politics be without Republican cannibalism giving rise to Democrat rule?
Gaetz is a loudmouth. And loudmouths gotta shout but contribute little worthwhile to the discourse.
Hell yeah.
McCarthy is a squish.
If we're going to stop communism and an overbearing federal government, we might as well go down fighting.
A California Republican. Why not just put Pelosi back in charge? What would change?
And Paul likes when she's away.
He knows.
Why nemesis or tormentor? McCarthy agreed in Jan to process spending bills in an orderly manner. Then he waited til Sep to bring up a single bill.
Gaetz is only asking that all representatives be allowed to do their jobs by reviewing these bills before voting on them.
McCarthy separated out Ukraine aid and kept the govt from shutting down. Win. Done.
Tormenter is a great word for Gaetz. He nibbles and needles rather than using a grand strike. He's like an irritating character from "Catch-22".
That's ok, no one trusts Matt Gaetz either. Perv. Hey Matt, how do you like those under aged girls????
Vicki from Pasadena
“Hopefully the Republicans continue eating their own all the way through 2024.“ - Rich
In my opinion, this is an excellent forum for you to express and share your hopes and opinions, Rich. Please do go on.
look! some things, are Beyond politics! McCarthy has allied himself with the democrats, to do what HE thinks, is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OF ALL.. continuing our endless and pointless war in the Ukraine
ALL HAIL BIG BROTHER!! Death to the Eurasians!! This WAR is necessary in order for there to be Peace!
Freedoms (like the 1st and 2nd Amendments) are SLAVERY! that is to say: RACISM!
Only by Trusting the Science, can we maintain our Strength! forget about Doing "your own research"
Math is RACISM!!! Thanx to Bidenomics, inflation is trending Down!!!
If we're gonna go 19th Century genteel, why not "Flummoxer in chief"?
I don't think it matters who runs your government when your citizens understand their "star sign" better.
“NYT standards”? Who knew!?!?
If McCarthy can't successfully negotiate with a president with Biden's numbers, maybe Gaetz is right. The speaker is just too much of a weakling.
Sit McCarthy in a room and make him watch Pelosi videos.
You know what? The example in the linked video is not very good. McCarthy is actually the oposite of the subject in the video. Or at least McCarthy tries to appear that way. Remember, "These guys can lie better than anybody. Some people do that in order to get re-elected."
Why isn't Gaetz the "concience of the House"? Isn't that the nonclemature for people who make principled stands in opposition to their own political interests?
Gaetz strikes me as a showboat sort of guy.
Vickee from OZ: "That's ok, no one trusts Matt Gaetz either. Perv. Hey Matt, how do you like those under aged girls????"
Significantly less than Joe Biden and Bill Clinton.
The compromises made to climb to the top of the pile are often resented by the rank and file.
Dade Phelan, GOP leader of the Texas House of Representatives, is identically tormented by his GOP caucus for failing to address border issues, among other things.
I wouldn't vote for Gaetz for street sweeper. He clearly cares about nothing but himself and his puffed up ego. I don't know how all this is going to play out, but I hope it's a big face plant for Gaetz.
'That's ok, no one trusts Matt Gaetz either. Perv. Hey Matt, how do you like those under aged girls????'
I doubt he reads this blog, but if he did, you'd need a really good lawyer.
Mr. McCarthy’s qualifications = R from CA [long time survivor etc.]
or enough layers of screwiness to boggle!!
"More recently, since the 1500s, it's meant "One who or that which persistently inflicts intense pain, suffering, vexation, or annoyance."
Some tormenters just care a little too much.
McCarthy made a lot of promises in order to get where he is,...
=======
??? and the promisees bought into them with eyes wide open.??!!! [themselves have made a lot of promises in order to get where they iz,]
Sorry compromisers I like what Gaetz is doing. I could give a crap about ‘keeping Washington moving’ which is what these assholes believe is their primary purpose once they get to DC. If McCarthy stopped acting like a rubber stamp for the Democrats Gaetz could stop ‘tormenting’ him…
…and WTF is with this analysis? This is what stands in for thinking around here now? Do better…
Wrong McCarthy tag.
@crackMC
I don't think it matters who runs your government when your citizens understand their "star sign" better."
They'll use AI to calculate their voting decisions based on the location and time of their birth, filtered through the Chinese zodiac and the position of Mercury vs the Moon (or is it the Sun?) Science. Believe it. Believe in it.
@Meade — Politicians, both in America and globally, have been so caught up in the soap operas that they write for themselves, that they are forgetting that they need to govern. For the Freedom Caucus it is more important to obey Trump’s orders than making the country work. And too many ruling parties try to behave as the opposition, because it's easier.
It might be a strip club metaphor.
"I'm reading 'Gaetz Says He Will Move to Oust McCarthy for Working With Democrats/A day after the Republican speaker turned to Democrats for help passing a stopgap spending bill to avert a shutdown, the far-right congressman promised to try to remove him from his post.' (NYT)"
Ummm...isn't that what members of the two parties are supposed to do, working with each other across the aisle to reach compromises that may sting each side a little for what they give up but also providing each side--and we, the people, more crucially--with legislation that will give each side something and serves our interests?
Gaetz has just admitted many or a majority of the Republicans are determined to block any legislation, however worthy or beneficial to the people at large, simply to claim "victory" (sic) in their "gotcha!" war with the Dems.
They are traitors to we, the people, and are abject servants of the wealthy power blocs, (wealthy corporations and individuals). Unfortunately, a significant portion of the Dems are abject bought-and-paid servants of the same wealthy power blocs.
The Republicans never seem to get it, you move to the center before the election, then after you win, you pass your agenda. Why is Gaetz so dumb? Wait til you have the votes then do like Beiden and enact your dreams, Sheesh. Is everyone a child that wants all the candy now?
So Matt Gaetz, what name do you use when you comment here? Which one are you?
Has anyone asked Gaetz would he would do differently and how it would work? Considering that government shutdowns never rebound in the GOP's favor.
Douglas B. Levene: "I wouldn't vote for Gaetz for street sweeper. He clearly cares about nothing but himself and his puffed up ego. I don't know how all this is going to play out, but I hope it's a big face plant for Gaetz."
Matt Gaetz represents the 1st District of Florida, one of the most military dominant districts in the nation...which he won with almost 70% of the vote in 2022.
You know, those deplorables who go and fight the neocon Forever Wars that your beloved GOPe-ers cant wait to start and go Full Grifter mode?
And you are already on record as saying you prefer GOP candidates be selected in smoke filled back rooms by the party insiders anyway.
Yep, you're just the kind of guy that wants no pressure applied to your party insiders to actually live up to their promises to serve the republican base instead of the globalist America Last-ers.
Gaetz should wear the criticisms from the likes of you with pride.
chuck: "Gaetz strikes me as a showboat sort of guy."
Showboats dont usually have a following or leverage.
Is that the case here?
LLR AMDG: "I do not buy that the tRump Swabs are concerned about spending. They say nothing about the true drivers of deficits, SS and Medicare, because their Lord and Savior, Donald “The Fat Tub of Goo” Trump has declared them untouchable."
As was long predicted, 50 years of republican GOPe-er sellouts to the dems on budgetary matters, as well as the real time-right now sellout by McConnell on the budget, would be blamed on Trump.
Even as the GOPe-ers in power work feverishly at this very moment to screw us over with their dem allies, LLR AMDG, fanboy of globalist/GOPe backed DeSantis, wants everyone to blame Trump.
Again,as predicted.
Wince: "Whether or not a “motion to vacate” is taken up or passes during that time, Gaetz damn well knows McCarthy's feet need to be held to the fire to move the Speaker in the right direction of upholding his original promises to the caucus."
Very true, but as you can see from this thread, all the "respectable" republicans passionately desire Gaetz's political demise so Frank Luntz's roommate can continue his quiet and consistent capitulations to the dems.
Btw, its never too late for the "respectable", non-Walmart shopping non-deplorables to crank up a Draft Cheney/Romney ticket to really shake up the GOP primary!
@Vicki from P: "..no one trusts Matt Gaetz either. Perv. Hey Matt, how do you like those under aged girls????
You know, you really should try reading to the actual bottom of the page once in a while. I know know the NaziCrat press really likes to leave the facts for last when it's a story about Republicans, but you might have found out that the NaziCrat rat that tried to blackmail Gaetz and his father to keep these lies quiet and out-of-print was indicted after an FBI sting and convicted and sent to the good old pen for this. This is called criminal behavior, and as someone else noted, you might be comfortable with the casual use of smears and lies, but sometimes people object to your smears and lies when they're about them
Integrity is a hard concept to come to terms with when one is a sociopath, eh? NaziCrat?
..and by the way, I don't even like Gaetz, I think he's a camera-hogging frat-boy self-aggrandizing blowhard, and the only game he seems to know is how to be obnoxious, and not particularly effective. I also notice he's often the only one making an effort.
Trump is much more effective, because he knows when to be the assh*le for maximum political leverage - as measured by the howls rising from NaziCrats when he does it. And he does it with a sardonic smile, which his fans love to see, because NaziCrat heads start popping everywhere.
Do you like my all-grown-up mature use of infantile playground stupid word taunts for party affiliation? So impressive... so insightful... so witty... So persuasive.
I don't really like McCarthy, but I don't know else who is willing to do it that I'd trust to do it.
Gaetz is using the lack of a large enough majority in the House along with having no Senate majority nor having a President to sign off on bills. To get what???
That seems to be prideful a use of Kamikaze tactics. It works once but it kills you too. In this case also it kills off the DOLLAR as reserve currency. Not that we need to postpone that disaster so coveted by Destroy America Dems that they will pull a fire alarm to get it done.
and the promisees bought into them with eyes wide open.??!!!
Of course, Gaetz's eyes were wide open; part of the agreement for his vote was to weaken the requirements for a motion to vacate, as a threat against McCarthy going back on their agreement. What exactly was Gaetz supposed to do, refuse to accept any Speaker? There was clearly no alternative. So, they made a deal, and McCarthy is now violating that deal, and Gaetz is holding him accountable for it. As it should be. If McCarthy doesn't like it, he should have worked harder to win over Gaetz's trust and build up some political capital. Prior to this budget fight.
and the promisees bought into them with eyes wide open.??!!!
Of course, Gaetz's eyes were wide open; part of the agreement for his vote was to weaken the requirements for a motion to vacate, as a threat against McCarthy going back on their agreement. What exactly was Gaetz supposed to do, refuse to accept any Speaker? There was clearly no alternative. So, they made a deal, and McCarthy is now violating that deal, and Gaetz is holding him accountable for it. As it should be. If McCarthy doesn't like it, he should have worked harder to win over Gaetz's trust and build up some political capital. Prior to this budget fight.
Peter Baker writes today in the NYT:
As the nation’s capital (sic) seemed to be barreling toward another debilitating federal government shutdown this weekend, America, well, did not exactly seem to be on the edge of its collective seat. . . Instead, [it] may indicate that America at this point assumes that Washington actually will go over the cliff, because that is what Washington does these days.
In an era of disruption and polarization and insurrection, with a former president facing 91 felony counts in four criminal indictments and a sitting president facing an impeachment inquiry, and a House speaker facing a possible move to oust him, the country has grown accustomed to chaos in the capital (sic). Dysfunction is the new normal.
So Baker and the Times have no answers to these dilemmas, and no one in the entire news organization is capable of running a spellchecker or a grammar checker.
Gaetz wants McCarthy replaced with Jim Jordan. Jordan has publicly claimed to want no part of the Speakership. Then what?
"I wish we had 535 of them [people like Gaetz] in Congress." But we don't. If you want a tougher GOP leader then elect more "tough" (i.e., right wing) Republicans to Congress. Until you manage that, stop whining.
BTW, why has the Republican right wing become pro-Putin? I've been a conservative Republican for 63 years, and we were always AGAINST Russian dictators (FDR was Stalin's buddy). Ukraine is not Iraq or Afghanistan or Viet Nam. Ukraine is a real country with (finally) a real government. The Ukrainians have AT LEAST fought the Russians to a draw, and maybe better than that. Ever since the beginning of the Cold War, we in the West have feared an overwhelming Soviet attack on Europe. Ukrainian troops with NATO weapons have shown that the Russians are paper tigers. I say, Keep it up!
"I wish we had 535 of them [people like Gaetz] in Congress." But we don't. If you want a tougher GOP leader then elect more "tough" (i.e., right wing) Republicans to Congress. Until you manage that, stop whining.
BTW, why has the Republican right wing become pro-Putin? I've been a conservative Republican for 63 years, and we were always AGAINST Russian dictators (FDR was Stalin's buddy). Ukraine is not Iraq or Afghanistan or Viet Nam. Ukraine is a real country with (finally) a real government. The Ukrainians have AT LEAST fought the Russians to a draw, and maybe better than that. Ever since the beginning of the Cold War, we in the West have feared an overwhelming Soviet attack on Europe. Ukrainian troops with NATO weapons have shown that the Russians are paper tigers. I say, Keep it up!
Everyone knew McCarthy was a RINO. And since January he's acted as a RINO.
that story came from a local weasel joe greenberg, who managed a good deal to avoid serious times for a host of offenses
much like william Allen in the stevens case, and his nc 17 relationship with his bureau handler mary beth kempner,
Paul Ryan did the EXACT same thing McCarthy did. He came in and said that just ONE more CR to fund the government so we could get to single spending bills. Then NOTHING. All of the eGOP types, especially the Powerline guys stood up and said give him this chance, then nothing when he did nothing.
Hooray for Matt Gaetz. And boo for the texas republicans who voted for this. Here are there names for primary season. John Cornyn goes without saying.
Michael Burgess, Dan Crenshaw, Monica De La Cruz, Jake Ellzey, Kay Granger, Michael McCall, Pete Sessions.
"Blogger Jim Gust said...
Given that they don't have a majority. might enough Democrats vote to keep McCarthy as Speaker to keep him in office? Should that happen, wouldn't Graetz lose all his leverage?"
So why would republicans caucus with McCarthy when he is owned by the democrats? That is what Gaetz is saying, if he caucuses with the democrats, then he's a democrat.
Government as band-aid for society is great theory.
why even bother with Constitutional etc.
McCarthy made promises to get the Speakership. He broke those promises. The GOP has the majority, and thus no reason to compromise on spending. The freaking debt is at $33T, at 4% (low) interest alone on that debt is over $1.5T making it the single largest item on the budget. If we don't cut deficit spending we'll be lose to $50T by 2028. Inflation is being caused by deficit spending that creates more $$ chasing goods and services, so expect interest rates to hit what they did in the early 1980s as the Fed fights the Congress's excessive spending in an attempt to prevent us from going bankrupt because we get over our heads in debt.
For all of you trying to analyze this as just Machiavellian scheming between Republicans, no. This is a fight for the survival of the country against a party (Democrats) who are hell-bent on fomenting crisis after crisis to destabilize and eventually overthrow our current form of government. Or, the Democrats are so stupid they can't do basic math concerning budgeting and immigration. The Democrats are many things, but they're not stupid. They have clear intentions as expressed by their actions, Occa 's Razor and all that.
Goetz is fighting a good fight. Maybe he could be a better tactician, but the GOP needs to stand up and stop being a willing accomplice to the country's destruction.
I just love the advice to wait for a larger majority. Conservative voters have given Republicans large majorities in the House in 10 out of the last 15 House elections, what do we have to show for it? Nothing.
Aggie: "Do you like my all-grown-up mature use of infantile playground stupid word taunts for party affiliation? So impressive... so insightful... so witty... So persuasive."
I don't know about anyone else, but you had me at "hello".
Just, if you value your life!. Do not ever get between Matt Gaetz and a TV camera.
Idgaf
I just love the advice to wait for a larger majority.
Well, Yancey, if you want to get off your lazy ass and work to get Democrats defeated and Republican elected, maybe you’ll have standing to bitch about things. House Republicans have a working margin of four votes. Four. That limits what McCarthy can and cannot do. Reality. Learn that word.
Forty years ago I got past fed up with conservatives who can’t be bothered to work for the election of Republicans, and then later you act like you should be able to dictate to the people who did do the work. No, it doesn’t work that way.
Godfather,
Your "Ukraine is doing great" shtick is at least 6 months out of date.
Gaetz gets it.
Gaetz gets it.
To Kirk Parker: I didn’t say “Ukraine is doing great”. But they have held on against a former super power. Why don’t you tell us why you are rootin’ for Putin?
Why don’t you tell us why you are rootin’ for Putin?
Do you have to be “rootin’ for Putin” to recognize reality?
Hmmm.... Matt Goetz goes against everything every politician does in washington, spend more money buying votes. That is the creed, voters reward them for doing it, that is why there is no spending cuts AT ALL.
But Goetz and the conservatives are willing to go against that corruption and all you hear from the left is perv, blowhard, only out for himself.
That last one is seriously ridiculous. If he were "out for himself" he would be raking in dollars with insider trading like all of the other reps do and getting as much money for votes as he could, like all of the other reps do.
That you see someone willing to take the entire heat from Washington as "out for himself" is some seriously corrupt thinking.
"Blogger Big Mike said...
I just love the advice to wait for a larger majority.
Well, Yancey, if you want to get off your lazy ass and work to get Democrats defeated and Republican elected, maybe you’ll have standing to bitch about things. House Republicans have a working margin of four votes. Four. That limits what McCarthy can and cannot do. Reality. Learn that word.
10/1/23, 9:27 PM"
How many did Pelosi have when she created the corrupt J6 committee? All of the budgets she got passed.
Sorry you got fed up with people watching the eGOP sell them down the river along with Clinton. Step up and get more of those. ONLY now with trump is there a republican who isn't busy outsourcing the middle class prosperity.
Big Mike,
I have been voting for Republicans for Congress and Senate exclusively my entire adult life. Like I wrote- we voters have given the GOP large majorities in 10 out of the last 15 House elections, and it has made no difference whatsoever. There seems to be little point in waiting for another big majority for the GOP- we will get the same nothing.
Sure, McCarthy can't "win" with a four vote majority- none of us who support Gaetz here misunderstand that, but we are sick and tired of hearing from people like you, I suppose, that McCarthy needs a larger majority with which to fight. Where was that fight from 2010 to 2019 when the GOP had a large House majority?
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