From "5 Takeaways From Another Trump-Free Republican Debate/The party’s front-runner took few hits as his rivals bickered, Nikki Haley delivered an assured performance, Tim Scott reasserted himself and Ron DeSantis took his first debate swipes at Trump" (NYT).
I only watched about 3 minutes of the debate. I don't have cable anymore, so I had to search for a live feed on YouTube, and I found something that had the debate on the left side of the screen and some guy with a headset on the right side who would mutter short comments now and then. The guy was ridiculous and distracting, but the debate seemed worse. A moderator asked an absurdly long question about the auto strike, and then Tim Scott started talking and acted as though we were dumb to take something stupid he'd said literally. And I was gone.
I haven't even read the NYT's "5 Takeaways" yet and this post feels done already. Sometimes you have to rush out so quickly, you don't even want to take anything away.
ADDED: Okay, I'm skimming the "5 Takeaways." One is that Nikki Haley said — to Vivek Ramaswamy — "every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber." That's a good insult? She's claiming her own intelligence is vulnerable. How is she going to get out and about talking to ordinary Americans if hearing stupid things makes her dumber? And Ramaswamy is a source of stupidity? Obviously, there's an alternative interpretation for her statement, and she couldn't have intended it. She could "feel a little bit dumber" because his speech is so smart.
Is this addendum to my once-finished blog post making you feel any smarter? By the way, she was the one woman on the stage, and her most noted remark is about feelings. The male version of the joke would be: Every time you talk, this debate gets a little dumber.
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Wasn't it on network Fox? You don't have cable but don't you have a $10 antenna?!
There was a debate last night?
I was busy trying to get the catalytic converter off the Honda Element. Gave up around 8:00 and then watched some British crime show.
On the whole I think I had the more enlightening evening.
We watched via Rumble.
The articles I've read so far are from people who didn't see the opening moments I saw. The candidates were all various levels of terrible.
Having only watched excerpts of the latest debate fiasco, these made-for-TV events need to be put to bed forever. What a joke.
Do a round robin. Two candidates in a room with no moderator (gag me) for an hour and let them have at it. Every candidate debates every candidate for an hour.
I skipped the whole thing and I'm glad.
That Fox News debate was a mess. Gasbag Hannity going long on Kudlow. Talking over national anthem in background. Bickering and over talk. Had to change channel very early on.
Trump was right. Last night might have cemented him as the nominee.
It was awful on pretty much every front, moderators included. Just a shit show.
There were a few moments of clarity, a couple of strong moments from Nikki Haley, then she promptly tossed them away to become the Attack Nikki using various things to attack each one in succession. It did not look good.
DeSantis was mostly the adult in the room, and to me, is the one who has actually run a large state, done so competently, and gives serious, if preset answers. He did jump into the fray talking over people at times though- like the all did.
Ramaswamy was done in for the most part. I still like him for his energy and ideas. But he's not going anywhere.
Christie, Burgum, Scott, and Pence need to all just walk away. They are in the way, paving this thing nicely...for Trump.
Honestly, this should be Trump, DeSantis, and Nikki Haley in a ring, having it out.
Kelly Ann Conway was just on FOX
In analyzing the debate what she said made a lot of sense. I'll paraphrase
'I'm on a glide path to vote for the one that can do the job, has done the job before. Has anyone said something that would nudge me off that glide path?'
I think that is a fair take on voters thought process. Can you say something that will make me consider a different candidate.
I like Haley, DeSantis, Vivek, Bergum. ALL but Bergum are DC GOPe swampees. But I'd rather have that than Obama version 4.1. Because no matter what happens, Obama is pulling all the strings. Typical Democrat. All the power....but zero responsibility. If the wannabees from last night would start telling the People Biden makes zero decissions and a D vote is an Obama Vote. Electing a person that will not be held accountable for the state of affairs.
Dave Begley hardest hit.
I don't mean to pick on you, Dave. I accept the fact that you're at least wise enough to sense that Trump is a loser, there's not a lot of future for the Republican Party in "more Trump," and that you have expressed a lot of genuine interest in Vivek, Scott, Haley and others. You have tried to think seriously about another GOP candidate.
But you're not getting it. You and every other Republican leader who have had plenty of chances to at least take an off-ramp from Trumpism (to say nothing of the outright condemnation that Trump deserves) have failed. And now you get more Trump. Right up until a general election gives you more Biden.
Let's not overlook the biggest "debate" news from last night.
It did not come from the Reagan Presidential Library, where the debate was held. Instead, the biggest debate news came from Clinton Township, Michigan, where Trump gave a speech and said that the GOP debate looked to him like a debate where they were competing to be vice presidential candidates. "Number 2." And that in Trump's view, none of them looked like they had any potential.
He should have come at her with, "So that explains it."
"A moderator asked an absurdly long question..."
Absurdly long questions are not questions, they are statements intended to push a desired answer. They should be ignored. After 15 words, the candidate should simply say "Do you have a question?"
I'm assuming Nikki Haley's emotiveness did not include any information about her longtime sucking at the teat of the open borders Club for Growth.
Nor, I assume, did any of the others'.
Seen on the Zerohedge X account last night:
"Dear @CIA, can we please skip the sequel? Just tell us who you want elected president and let’s skip all this BS."
The Presidential election is fake and the results do not matter. The President of the United States is not elected by the people. He is elected by the members of the Electoral College and you ain't a member.
The Presidential election is fake and the results do not matter. The President of the United States is not elected by the people. He is elected by the members of the Electoral College and you ain't a member.
Temujin: "DeSantis was mostly the adult in the room, and to me, is the one who has actually run a large state, done so competently, and gives serious, if preset answers. He did jump into the fray talking over people at times though- like the all did."
Is it true that DeSantis blamed Trump for all the inflation we are seeing now and gave Biden, the democraticals and the GOPe a complete pass on inflation?
Is that true?
If so, was that a "serious" and "adult" answer?
Because as of this morning, the Biden/Harris campaign is already flooding the airwaves with DeSantis' face and quote in their ads.
What a perfectly perfecto thing for a Bushie-GOPe backed candidate to do.
To be fair, almost everyone is a little dumber than Vivek Ramaswamy. I hope Trump gives the guy a job.
It was worse than Milwaukee, a debate low point we were hoping to leave behind. The format encourages chaos, which is downright annoying as TG fare. And what was with the hostile and barely intelligible screeching from the gal from ooh-nee-vee-zee-own? The whole thing was a shitshow. Trump looks better for skipping it and gained more than any of the participants by being above this fray
Why does Nikki Haley sound so much like Barack Obama when she’s on stage? Is it what she says or how she says it… or both?
The thing that struck me was that this looked and sounded like no-one, including the moderators, were in charge. I am not sure if Republicans live to promote or thrive on this chaos, but for for parts of the debate I couldn't hear anything that was being said because they were all talking at once. The moderators were useless, and it looked like they were just letting the chaos rip. I do wonder if there is some Machievellian plot at Fox to make these guys looks terrible, and so, somehow, promote Trump? At the moment, it just makes the Republicans look like they are having trouble graduating from Clown School.
Varney was terrible from the moment he tried to introduce the Univision moderator.
Having seen what DeSantis has done in Florida, I thought he could find traction by arguing that he could combine Trump-like goals with actual government organizational skills. His campaign has lost all discipline, however, and he's flailing. He'll never be Trump's VP, so his goal now ought to be to get out in a way that preserves his viability for 2028.
Scott, Haley, and Burgum are presumably auditioning for VP. Ramaswamy wants to be the next Buttigieg and land a wonky cabinet post. I have no idea what Christie and Pence are thinking.
They should all support trump and step aside. Campaigning for him and against the corrupt political persecutions that is ongoing against him. This is saving the republic stuff right here, but they are really not that interested in that, they are interested in their money.
They are making it impossible to vote for them once the democrats manage to incarcerate trump.
Hmmm... scott or haley. I pick scott because Haley is right up in Mitch McConnell's backside.
"then Tim Scott started talking and acted as though we were dumb to take something stupid he'd said literally."
i'm old enough to remember when "seriously, not literally" was a mantra for the former guy
"Wasn't it on network Fox? You don't have cable but don't you have a $10 antenna?!"
No. I know such things exist but can't be bothered.
Do a round robin. Two candidates in a room with no moderator (gag me) for an hour and let them have at it. Every candidate debates every candidate for an hour.
==========
without moderator who will brings AV equipment?
There are better things to do than have Meade install an antenna. We have Metronet and a Roku. If I can't get it from there it ain't worth watching.
Do a round robin. Two candidates in a room with no moderator (gag me) for an hour and let them have at it. Every candidate debates every candidate for an hour.
==========
without moderator who will brings AV equipment?
"I do wonder if there is some Machievellian plot at Fox to make these guys looks terrible, and so, somehow, promote Trump? At the moment, it just makes the Republicans look like they are having trouble graduating from Clown School.
9/28/23, 9:10 AM"
If you paid attention, you would know by now that Fox is for DeSantis.
Watched some on a Rumble feed. Worked pretty well. The debate itself was terrible. If I hear a conservative say one more time “… secure the border’ I’ll self-immolate. These people have consultants and advisors and none of them understand that this now has become a red-flag statement that translates, “I’m a weakling and I hate my base”? Further, how can none of these people or their consultants understand that the biggest issue for the people they want votes from is the lawfare against Trump, prolifers, and J6-ers? That should be their first and foremost statement, that “I will stop the weaponization against conservatives by our so-called Justice System starting with the complete exoneration of Trump and the J6 political prisoners.
To understand the moment is very difficult for many people but if you can’t, get the hell off the stage.
This whole "sick burn" approach to politics is tiresome. Inorganic. Lacking authenticity. Unproductive.
To be fair, almost everyone is a little dumber than Vivek Ramaswamy. I hope Trump gives the guy a job.
White House IT.
For what it's worth, her line seemed like a reference to this scene in "Billy Madison" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrWoG8IckyE, where our protagonist is in a competition and has to give an essay-type answer to a complex question. He recalls a child's book read earlier in the movie and gives a speech scored by soaring music. The judge responds by saying "Mr. Madison, what you have just said is among the dumbest things I have ever heard. Nowhere in your rambling incoherence did you come anywhere close to a plausible answer. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to you. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
The GOP debate was on Rumble. I believe the November debate will also be in Rumble, through the GOP rumble account.
Haley's insult line was a reference to Billy Madison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
And may God have mercy on your soul.
That's what Haley was shooting for. She tried.
"A moderator asked an absurdly long question about the auto strike..."
You ask me any question that doesn't end within 20 seconds will always get a "Is there a question in there?" from me. Why don't more people do this?
Why am I not interested? They're not debates- they're scripted Q&A sessions.
Put a few leading candidates on a stage- draw straws for order, then get them started. Each gets 3 uninterrupted minutes to speak. Going round and round until they get tired of speaking or drop out.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that the 2024 presidential election is going to need to be fortified for the Republican just so The Swamp is not embarrassed by Soviet/Nork type reelection numbers for the Zombie Dementia Cryptkeeper.
these are not debates
10,000 illegals daily and the first question is about an auto strike
"I will end all fossil fuels" is all you need to know.
An observation from PJ media:
”The big question then is: Why is the GOP still letting this crap happen?
Let’s look at that. This is all GOP Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel’s doing. The woman with perhaps the worst track record of any GOP chair in history. The party has hemorrhaged governorships and seats in Congress since she’s been in charge.
Who was her most prominent supporter when she was running for a fourth term after presiding over three elections that were unmitigated disasters for the GOP?
Oh yeah, Donald Trump.
At this point, I’m beginning to think that this is all by design. Trump and McDaniel struck a deal: he’d help her reelection bid; she’d set up some of the worst debates in GOP primary history and he’d avoid them.”
A shitshow.
In other news, more incriminating evidence against the Biden Crime Family is coming to light on a daily basis. $20,000,000 and counting…
So, what do you think? Was Trump's VP on that stage? I kind of doubt it. I'd like to see DeSantis in DC as Trump's heir apparent, but it's not looking like that's going to happen. He got greedy. Or maybe just impatient. I don't know, they still might patch it up. Hell, Kennedy patched it up with LBJ, or at least he thought he did. Those two hated each other's guts with a passion like a cold, blue flame.
The debate was a Kobayashi Maru moment for all the candidates. Trump took the Kirk route, and the others followed the rules and looked like losers.
I lost all respect for the strategic and tactical thinking of everyone on stage. Who would want any of them even as VP?
I watched about 30 minutes before I could take no more.
Two things stood out:
I forget what Tim Scott was saying, i think something about America being the land of opportunity. And sounding very good saying it. But he concluded by saying "yada yada yada (pause for emphasis) THESE (1 beat pause) United States blah, blah, blah"
I really liked the idea that somebody still gets it. We are not a country/state in the traditional sense but a collection of "States" (not provinces or shires). Pretty much nobody pays attention to that.
So +++
But then there ws the excrable pandering on "birthright citizenship" which everyone but me seems to be against. The worst was Viviswami (or DeSantis?) who kept going on about how diplomats and their families are not subject to our federal, state and local laws and therefore their children born here do not become citizens.
I had no idea what he was talking about but finally he pulled it together with a statement "and since diplomats are not subject to our laws, illegal aliens are not either and therefore do not deserve birthright citizenship." (As best as I remember)
Wuuuut!?!?! That makes no sense at all. Is there anyone that thinks illegal aliens are not subject to our laws? We sometimes treat them like they arenot but they really are. Or that a baby born here, without the diplomatic exemption, would not be subject to our laws?
Frankly he came across as insane. Even more insane than most who try to say 14A does not grant birthright citizenship to children of illegals.
Nobody that I heard talked about the real problem, so called anchor babies. While the baby is absolutely a citizen with all rights and duties and cannot be deported or have their citizenshp revoked.
john henry
I watched about 30 minutes before I could take no more.
Two things stood out:
I forget what Tim Scott was saying, i think something about America being the land of opportunity. And sounding very good saying it. But he concluded by saying "yada yada yada (pause for emphasis) THESE (1 beat pause) United States blah, blah, blah"
I really liked the idea that somebody still gets it. We are not a country/state in the traditional sense but a collection of "States" (not provinces or shires). Pretty much nobody pays attention to that.
So +++
But then there ws the excrable pandering on "birthright citizenship" which everyone but me seems to be against. The worst was Viviswami (or DeSantis?) who kept going on about how diplomats and their families are not subject to our federal, state and local laws and therefore their children born here do not become citizens.
I had no idea what he was talking about but finally he pulled it together with a statement "and since diplomats are not subject to our laws, illegal aliens are not either and therefore do not deserve birthright citizenship." (As best as I remember)
Wuuuut!?!?! That makes no sense at all. Is there anyone that thinks illegal aliens are not subject to our laws? We sometimes treat them like they arenot but they really are. Or that a baby born here, without the diplomatic exemption, would not be subject to our laws?
Frankly he came across as insane. Even more insane than most who try to say 14A does not grant birthright citizenship to children of illegals.
Nobody that I heard talked about the real problem, so called anchor babies. While the baby is absolutely a citizen with all rights and duties and cannot be deported or have their citizenshp revoked.
john henry
I watched about 30 minutes before I could take no more.
Two things stood out:
I forget what Tim Scott was saying, i think something about America being the land of opportunity. And sounding very good saying it. But he concluded by saying "yada yada yada (pause for emphasis) THESE (1 beat pause) United States blah, blah, blah"
I really liked the idea that somebody still gets it. We are not a country/state in the traditional sense but a collection of "States" (not provinces or shires). Pretty much nobody pays attention to that.
So +++
But then there ws the excrable pandering on "birthright citizenship" which everyone but me seems to be against. The worst was Viviswami (or DeSantis?) who kept going on about how diplomats and their families are not subject to our federal, state and local laws and therefore their children born here do not become citizens.
I had no idea what he was talking about but finally he pulled it together with a statement "and since diplomats are not subject to our laws, illegal aliens are not either and therefore do not deserve birthright citizenship." (As best as I remember)
Wuuuut!?!?! That makes no sense at all. Is there anyone that thinks illegal aliens are not subject to our laws? We sometimes treat them like they arenot but they really are. Or that a baby born here, without the diplomatic exemption, would not be subject to our laws?
Frankly he came across as insane. Even more insane than most who try to say 14A does not grant birthright citizenship to children of illegals.
Nobody that I heard talked about the real problem, so called anchor babies. While the baby is absolutely a citizen with all rights and duties and cannot be deported or have their citizenshp revoked.
john henry
Scott, Haley, and Burgum are presumably auditioning for VP.
No chance of the VP slot and they know it. No chance of a cabinet post even for Burgum.
Ramaswamy wants to be the next Buttigieg and land a wonky cabinet post.
He's playing for 2028. He's young he doesn't need to go anywhere and he's a Billionaire he doesn't need a cabinet post, with all those pesky accomplishments he'd have to bring.
I have no idea what Christie and Pence are thinking.
Christie is playing for the recurring "Life Long Republican" role on MSNBC/Meet the Press.
Pence is just oblivious and is trying to... I'd say "save" his reputation, but he didn't really have one before so I'd just go with "establish a reputation.
He might be hoping for a cabinet post in the Newsom administration in sort of a "reach across the aisle".
They are all going for that sweet sweet campaign cash though.
I suspect that Trump has a short list of non-government people he plans on appointing to the cabinet posts and having a fight with the Senate on confirmation.
He got screwed by all of his cabinet posts before, because they are all swamp creatures, used to the way of the swamp.
Happy, Doc, Grumpy, Dopey, Bashful, Sleepy, and Sneezy.
I liked Dopey best. And either Sneezy or Vivak for second.
Was Trump's VP on that stage? I kind of doubt it. I'd like to see DeSantis in DC as Trump's heir apparent,
I gather you mean DeSantis as VP, right?
Serious question asked with all due respect.
Why do you think DeSantis would be heir apparent to trump (or any vp to any president)?
I've been asking this question for 50-60 years.
Nobody has ever been able to explain why they think this.
Would you care to try?
I've always thought that the vp has been pretty self evidently the non heir apparent. Never seen anything to change that view.
John Henry
Was Trump's VP on that stage? I kind of doubt it. I'd like to see DeSantis in DC as Trump's heir apparent,
I gather you mean DeSantis as VP, right?
Serious question asked with all due respect.
Why do you think DeSantis would be heir apparent to trump (or any vp to any president)?
I've been asking this question for 50-60 years.
Nobody has ever been able to explain why they think this.
Would you care to try?
I've always thought that the vp has been pretty self evidently the non heir apparent. Never seen anything to change that view.
John Henry
I read the transcript and I feel dumber for it.
Christie - Way too ugly/angry guy. Lets see the jolly fat man.
Haley - Hey gal, you win the loudmouth shrew of the month. Stop the finger wagging.
Mr V - what happened? Did someone get to you? Or you are wilting under the pressure?
Gov Bumstead - Why are you running? Go back to Bismark.
De Santis - why so boring? Do you really want to win? Attack Biden. Attack DOJ. Get fired up!
Pence - The 80s called, they want their Republican talking points back.
Scott - Its not a crime to be a dull mediocrity . But you're not Presidental material.
These R debates wtihout Trump just show the Republican party is a complete clown show without him. These guys/gals really are the 7 dwarfs.
And does the RNC want a clown show or a substantive debate? Its obviously the former. If they wanted substantive debate, they would:
1) Have the campaigns write their own 20 word questions, and have the moderators just ask those questions . But that would take power away from the liberal/left producers at FOX, who decide what topics get discussed, what questions to ask and who gets to answer them. Oh, and they wouldn't get a little Fox News speech before every question, and get in the standard Liberal/left talking points.
2) Put a floor of 5 percent to get in the debate. Why is some 2 percenter on the stage?
3) Stop the news anchors from playing hall monitor and scolding candidates, scolding the audiences, and interupting the candidates. Give everyone X amount of time to answer. Give them an adequate amount of time.
Before the next debate, Trump should ask DeSantis to skip the Fox News debate and have a one on one with him and Tucker. Hold it at the same time as the Fox News R Presidental debate. That would be hilarious!
Dana Perino praised Hillary Clinton a week ago.
Always a good sign.
Biden will be the next president, and Harris after him.
The GOPe is just wasting its time.
Dana Parino and Trump both love Hillary. unification
CABLE
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Wasn't it on network Fox? You don't have cable but don't you have a $10 antenna?!"
"No. I know such things exist but can't be bothered."
Althouse writes a blog covering many political issues but does have cable
tv ?????
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