From "Skirting the issue? School uniform names go gender-neutral" (London Times).
Do the students also have the "opportunity" to choose clothing they simply like — say, for fashion reasons — or must your choice of clothing always represent a statement of how you truly feel inside? I remember when it was possible to play with gender and for boys and girls to wear each other's clothes without being so earnest about it.
But if the uniforms are no longer designated "boys" and "girls," the youngest children won't know how to use these clothes to express "their self-identified gender." Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?
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The girls go with the one that makes them feel better, the boys with the one with structural advantages.
An existential threat that comes in coloring books.
"Kill your parents, that's where it's really at!" -- Bill Ayers
"A forgotten number on a list, which was later mislaid, in one of the innumerable mixed or women's concentration camps ..." -- Dr. Zhivago
Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?
To non-conform in 2023:
No tats
No piercings
No LGBT+
Gender binary as assigned
What the hell are we doing to kids? I supported gay marriage and believed freedom meant freedom for everyone. How did we go from adults having basic human rights to kids being subjected to abuse mental, emotional, and even physical abuse and mutilation?
Tom, because many can't take the win and stop. Particularly true of causes. They've got to go with the slope.
the boys with the one with structural advantages.
If you mean pockets, that's the one I want.
How did we go from adults having basic human rights to kids being subjected to abuse mental, emotional, and even physical abuse and mutilation?
I think it was right around 2001-2 that Megan McArdle wrote a piece, possibly just on her old blog back then, arguing against gay marriage (but not civil unions - it was the forcible co-opting of the term "marriage" that she was writing about) because it was impossible to know what the effects would be on the margins. I agreed with her then, and I think we can see what some of those marginal effects have been. Of course, I'm sure she's changed her tune now.
For that matter, so have I; gay marriage-qua-marriage is a done deal and I never objected to it as much as I object to the gender mess, though I still wish we'd stuck with civil unions - I was even willing to go with a, what, French? Italian? model in which everyone was civilly unionized, so to speak, and then sought out religious affirmation of marriage as they wished.
One thing McArdle suggested as an edge effect was more distressed children. But not this way. Which just goes to show you, unintended consequences are impossible to predict accurately and fully - one big reason I'm conservative, because conservatism takes a cautious and gradualist approach to sweeping change.
The left doesn't care about unintended consequences, it seems. They don't even care about whether their policies have the intended consequences they're supposed to have - the plight of urban Black America is a case in point. It's all and simply about the intent.
I would love to hear from one of our committed socialists on this point. I get the appeal, and I get the rationalizations I've heard offered for socialism's 100% record of failure (most notably that "capitalism," meaning markets, always gets in the way, which I see as a feature of human nature rather than a clash of systems). But what gives you hope that it can be done better, or right, or whatever, in the face of all the confounding evidence? Because this may all start with economics, but we've all seen that the battlefield has moved decidedly into culture.
What uniform options do the Muslim girls have?
This is pure silliness. The smart kids will see it as such. The dumb ones who go on to graduate school never will.
We are absolving ourselves from parenting or simply being the adults in the room. We are equating the decisions of children to those of experienced adults and allowing children to make decisions for themselves, in some cases life-altering decisions, instead of being the adults in the room and directing the children. Using the knowledge we have gained to teach them better decisions, better thinking, or even how to think about some things.
My word. We have spent our lives learning right and wrong, only to unlearn it again and look to the children for direction.
It’s not about definition.
It’s about control.
Get them dumb &keep them there.
My 2cents…
Just say “Hell No!” to this bullshit.
We have spent our lives learning right and wrong, only to unlearn it again and look to the children for direction.
I think a big part of the problem is that while "we" may have spent our lives learning right and wrong, or to put it another way, learning ways to determine what is truth and what isn't, the people in charge of academia are by and large not included in that "we."
Crack will say it's a New Age thing; I say it's a postmodernist thing. Either way, it's a conviction (which is pretty funny, under the circumstances) that there's no such thing as truth, only truths. And since that statement is considered to be true (also pretty funny), what right have we to impose "our truth" on others, just because we've lived longer than they have?
It would be convenient if the faculty could use the pronouns that are associated with the uniform. For instance, a student choosing the skirt uniform is considered a 'she'.
The article doesn't mention if students must stick to their uniform choice for the year, or if their uniform choice can change as quickly as their gender.
"We have spent our lives learning right and wrong, only to unlearn it again and look to the children for direction."
Whom is this "we" of which you speak, Tonto?
Temujin @ 7:22: What you said. We are being eaten alive by feral children. Who were, or could have been, normal and healthy children; but we abandoned them to their self-directed whims and appetites as if they were privy to some superior state of knowledge; as if our own (hard-won) experience were worthless. With each day they grow stronger, bolder, more numerous.
What surprises me (a little) is how widely and quickly (and deeply) this cultural blight has spread.
Nothing good can come of it, and I don’t know of an effective antidote. Silent withdrawal concedes the field to the enemy. But those who resist or speak out, are mobbed by vicious imbeciles.
Because then you won't have a true moral panic. But hey, at least only a relatively few kids are being sexually mangled and chemically abused. In the Dalem Witch Trials, women were killed. In the Day Care Panic, innocent people were sent to prison for life. I pray that this one ends with as little damage as possible and that those responsible will pay. Alas, not gonna happen.
Just make all uniforms slacks.
If gender fluidity had never happened as a social cause, would skirted uniforms even exist anymore?
Unless maybe in Highland school. Call the uniforms kilts and make everyone wear them.
"Without a foundation of gender conformity"
Are you saying young boys don't know they're boys and young girls that they're girls?
It's amazing to me how fast this has happened.
sex, gender (e.g. sexual orientation), and social function
I agree with you. When I was in Kindergarten there was a dress-up area with dresses and hats and things and I liked to play with them. In the current times, that sort of thing could lead adults to call him a girl, give him hormones, and mutilate him. Thank goodness I grew up in a more civilized age.
“What the hell are we doing to kids? I supported gay marriage and believed freedom meant freedom for everyone. How did we go from adults having basic human rights to kids being subjected to abuse mental, emotional, and even physical abuse and mutilation”?
That was always the plan unfortunately.
gender-neutral terms: front hole, bottom hole, back... black hole... whore h/t NAACP, etc.
The push for gender neutrality is also a push to create anti-individuals.
collectivist state-owned children. It takes a village.
With establishment of transgender marriage under the principle of political congruence ("="), the Democrats codified affirmative discrimination (DIE). That said, civil unions for all consenting adults. Lower the albinophobic banners. Stop the bigotry. In Stork we trust? #HateLovesAbortion
How did we go from adults having basic human rights to kids being subjected to abuse mental, emotional, and even physical abuse and mutilation”?
Progress (i.e. unqualified monotonic change): one step forward, two steps backward
Liberalism (i.e. a philosophy of divergence)
Human rites performed for social, clinical, political, criminal, and fair weather progress.
Levine's dreams of Mengele
Albinophobia
Keep women affordable, available, and taxable.
Diversity [dogma]
SIC (social industrial complex)
Who gets the "A" uniform? If boys, then patriarchy. If girls, feminism. I don't see anyone winning this game, especially the kids with "C" uniforms.
Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?
I would say the fashion in 5 or 10 years will be hyper-masculine for on-trend boys, and hyper-feminine for on-trend girls. Pronoun choices will be swept away as old-fashioned. Every generation rebels against the former ones.
" ... to give all pupils the opportunity to wear the uniform they feel most comfortable in or that most reflects their self-identified gender."
Give each incoming student five gender-neutral beige coveralls and a cash stipend to buy additional clothes of their choice or books or whatever.
Of course, that won't solve the bathrooms and dormitory problem ... but it's a start.
The purpose of the uniforms is to remove a distraction from the childrens' lives with regards to school and social interaction, and it served its purpose pretty damned well until the many-gender nonsense infested our minds.
This is how it should be done- one uniform with slacks, one with skirts, with uniform coloring/designs. The parents/children can choose as they wish for the child. You do this, and females will probably come into a distribution of about 70/30 skirts/slacks, the boys will be less than 1/99 skirts/slacks.
What can we poor females do
When pressing, teasing lovers sue?
What can we poor females do?
Fate affords no other way,
But denying or complying,
And relenting, or consenting,
Doth alike our hopes betray.
anon, shows up in Purcell's music.
Next up, yellow stars of David.
‘But if the uniforms are no longer designated "boys" and "girls," the youngest children won't know how to use these clothes to express "their self-identified gender."’
They’ll find out, the same way they find out about Santa Claus.
Tom,
"I supported gay marriage..."
Getting onto the slippery slope was your first mistake.
"Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?"
This is the paradox of gender. It's a matter of extreme importance what gender you are, even though it is a meaningless social construct.
In Scotland, the schools will only need Uniform B.
How would this work in Scotland?
I have the legs for a kilt.
Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?
We need the eggs
Jeez, the drama. Whatever the motivation, the reality of ABing the uniform selection is nothing. Probably how it should have always been done. Very, very, few 8 year-olds are going to make the mistake of othering themselves, no matter how batshit their parents are. And that’s why the loonies lose in the end.
Stupid is running rampant through our schools.
The parents/children can choose as they wish for the child.
The teachers union is already attacking school boards in CA for supporting parents
During the 2022 election, Ledesma and Miner ran as part of a candidate slate that pledged to support charter school parents and be independent of teachers unions.
The group pushing the recall makes no mention of unions, of course.
Most recently, the OUSD board has been the center of the parental notification policy, a policy that would require students to be “outed” to parents if a staff member of the school discovered that the student was identifying as a different gender or sexuality.
Then, of course, there is this in which the union got caught.
The Spreckels Union School District in Monterey County, California, has settled a lawsuit that alleged it encouraged a girl to change her gender while concealing the transition from her parents.
The settlement came to $100,000 — $48,000 for the mother who was deceived; $48,000 to the girl who was the alleged victim; and $4,000 for medical expenses the plaintiffs had to incur with the California Department of Health Care Services.
The Los Angeles Times reported:
More of this, please.
"You do this, and females will probably come into a distribution of about 70/30 skirts/slacks, the boys will be less than 1/99 skirts/slacks."
As someone who wore the skirt uniform, I would've given a lot to be able to pick slacks. Ultimately, though, it depends on which way the Mean Girls go. If they pick skirts, it's a 90/10 distribution.
Without a foundation of gender conformity, how can you be a gender nonconformist?
By getting their cues internally instead of externally.
The trans kids apparently know what any other rational, sexual person knows: That “feeling” like a woman or a man inside more strongly determines your sense of identity and gender than any external social pressure enforced on you can.
The conservatives are funny, though. (No surprise). If they think their entire sexual identity is determined externally, then do none of them actually know what it means to feel like a man or to feel like a woman based on, you know, their own actual feelings, desires, impulses and drives?
Maybe not.
Also, have you ever noticed that some of the most easily offended activists trying to marginalize transgenders tend to be conservatives with questionable/stunted development of basic, secondary sexual characteristics? Both Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have some of the most embarrassingly high, unmanly voices and yet they are some of the activists most offended by kids who simply don’t feel like the gender they were told to be. Compensation, much?
I feel so bad for kids today. What an insane world they have to navigate.
This is happening because social media in the hands of the queer community can take your job, hurt your business or publicly brand you a 'hater'. Marches could only do so much. The web can do anything. Now look who's in the closet.
How about a three letter system:
1st: Gender "assigned at birth" (gag) B or G
2nd: Current gender claimed: B, G or Other. Note, should be attached by Velcro for easy change.
3rd: Genitalia status, P (penis) or V (va-jay-jay) or (change in progress).
Beneath could be ribbons with modifiers as needed to calm fevered brows. Although this might soon result in informs that resemble North Korean Generals.
We B doomed.
Owen: it may be hard to fight back against this tidal wave of child abuse and the coordinated assault on women's unique biology, but we have to do it. It's a moral imperative. There is strength in numbers.
You can send money to people who are able to take a stand. You can call your elected officials with relatively little public exposure.
You can support some of the more courageous groups who have a certain foothold on the left. Gays Against Grooming is a great organization seeking to expand in the South, especially in Georgia, where they are stymied (in my opinion, not necessarily theirs) by Atlanta's militant and woman-despising gay rights cabal.
Give each incoming student five gender-neutral beige coveralls
Ok, guys, I don't go Greer very often, but this comment and the very early one about boys choosing the uniform with structural advantages have teased me into going there. You know how her version of feminist critique pointed out that the default human is a man, and a woman is considered to be a variation on or a deviation from Man?
If you're female, a skirt is a structural advantage. (Pockets are too, h/t to the commenter who suggested that pockets were what was meant. But I'm going to assume - in all that word's problematic glory - that the original commenter was talking about a front closure and zipper fly as the salient advantages.) And a coverall absolutely sucks. Or, what, are we positing a buttoned butt-flap like in old-timey longjohns?
Women and girls have to sit, squat, or spread legs wide to pee, or at least to pee without peeing on themselves or their clothes and without using one of those funnel appliances (which I recently learned early public toilets tried to introduce for women, without success, because unlike a urinal for a man, to be effective you actually have to press your parts to the funnel). Just saying.
"What the hell are we doing to kids? I supported gay marriage and believed freedom meant freedom for everyone."
I fell for that one too.
Let gays get married, what's the worst thing that could happen?
And here we are...
"Very, very, few 8 year-olds are going to make the mistake of othering themselves, no matter how batshit their parents are. And that’s why the loonies lose in the end."
You are assuming (incorrectly as it turns out) that teachers and administrators aren't pressuring kids to do things they wouldn't normally do.
A California school district just lost a lawsuit because they were trying to secretly transition a child.
Both Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have some of the most embarrassingly high, unmanly voices and yet they are some of the activists most offended by kids who simply don’t feel like the gender they were told to be. Compensation, much?
Oh, pudd'n... Don't tell me you really don't understand that what you just said there is exactly the issue that is making gay people and lesbians turn against transgender activists.
And then there's the fact that, "unmanly" voices or not, you have no answer to the actual arguments presented by these "compensating" conservatives (as if Jordan Peterson is conservative). The trans-the-kids side continues to lie about the long-term effects of the drugs in question, the actual outcomes from those drugs and surgery, the idea that puberty blockers "just buy time" and "just provide options," the utter fearmongering concerning suicide risk as well as the fact that that risk, where it really exists, doesn't decrease after transition, the recidivism rate (so to speak), the total abandonment of professional ethics among therapists acceding to "affirmation" as a therapeutic strategy, the social contagion question, the autogynophelia question, the gay conversation therapy question, the sterility question... That side, which I gather is your side, has no response to any of these except "Transphobe!!1!"
And this would be true regardless of how your voice aligns with your opinion of how voices of people of your sex should sound.
"Both Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have some of the most embarrassingly high, unmanly voices......", screeched Hpuddinghead.
I finally feel like my WWII uncles must've felt when they saw me with long hair smoking dope.
Oh, my. The kiddies will have to choose something, and then they won't have anything to rebel against! Sux to be them, right?
Here's my suggestion, fwiw: One uniform. Slacks, not skirts. Everyone wears the same thing. No "accessorizing" allowed. Really none. (There are a couple kinks to be worked out wrt hair styles -- can Black girls have beads at the end of braids? -- but basically the uniform is it.)
But . . . but . . . mah individuality! Where'd it go?! Where it always was, silly. In your mind. If other kids can't recognize you for what you think and what you do, what's the point of all the cosplay?
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