And Tory peer secretary Lord Baker... [said t]he American bully XL was "born to be aggressive and bred to be aggressive," he said, adding they had "no place in the large dog-loving public of the country".
Here's a Guardian article from last month, "Perfect pets or dangerous dogs? The sudden, surprising rise of American bully XLs/Of the 10 fatal dog attacks in the UK last year, more than half involved a bully XL. But plenty of British owners love the breed. Should it be better regulated – or outright banned?":
In 2021, there were four fatal dog attacks [in the UK], two of which involved a bully XL. In 2022, there were 10 fatal attacks and six of them involved a bully XL. These huge animals... were also involved in at least two of the five deaths recorded this year....
“Unfortunately, some of the people that own these dogs are owning them as a statement,” agrees London-based animal photographer Chris Knight, who has photographed bully XL dogs many times. “They want something that looks big and scary, because they’re using it to intimidate people and to make themselves look tough. They’re giving the breed a bad name for everyone else.”...
Earlier this year, a BBC Panorama investigation exposed the links between organised crime and extreme dog breeding, where dogs are deliberately bred to create exaggerated characteristics such as distinctive facial features or large muscles, with American bully dogs being one of the main victims.
“You have people who should never in a million years have bought a 65kg dog because they live in a small apartment or a bad environment,” says a spokesperson for Bully Watch. “But there are also incidents where experienced dog handlers have been hurt when the dog has just turned. So we think there’s something else there and we think it might be genetic.”...
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Never heard of this breed. Sounds like ameriphobia to me.
A certain small percentage of all dog breeds is causing problems out of proportion for their representation within the species. Where have I heard this before. And it's women, always women that end up being unable to control them. Then they cry. Think I've heard this before too.
Help me here. By "fatal dog attacks" is meant what: death of another dog or similar pet, or death of a human being?
Either way it's bad news, but I would think the reaction/rhetoric/policy moves would differ somewhat in the two situations. If my dog kills another dog, I owe some money and should very likely see my "pet" destroyed. Maybe I should pay a fine also, depending on how much was previously known about the breed and my particular animal.
But if my dog kills a human? Sheesh.
65 kilograms? That's almost 145 pounds! More than a lot of people.
I it's in the news it's because some politician wants it in the news.
Vicki Hearne's _Bandit_ is about the pit bull hysteria the first time it happened in 1980, if you want the full refutation plus several dozen interesting digressions, including the difference between men and women.
Looks as though they're just a rebranded pit bull.
Let's say we lived in Roman times and the Emperor declared, with respect to pit bulls, that only people with minor children could own a pit bull and if your pit bull attacked and maimed and/or killed an innocent persion your youngest child would be similarly maimed and/or killed. How many people would own pit bulls?
Only irresponsible idiots who don't care enought about theirs or others' children.
So, I guess, it would not be really that much different than what we have today.
Because his owners fell on hard times, I house-sat a huge pitbull during the worst of the pandemic, and he was a great companion.
"And it's women, always women that end up being unable to control them. Then they cry."
Is there such a thing as common sense pibble control? Sounds like something "Mom's demand assault dog control" would be 100% for.
I googled:
XL Bully different from Pitbull?
One very clear difference is appearance. The American Bullies are more muscular and very broad often with larger heads and shorter legs. The American Pit Bulls are not as muscular and not as wide.
What I’d call a mutt. What people w/$$ call a breed. A crossbreed, if you will. Until recognized as it’s own breed.
Just control your animals. If your own “gets” you, it’s a choice you made by owning it to begin w/.
I am sure Charles Manson was loved by someone as well...
there were 10 fatal attacks and six of them involved a bully XL
as it is not officially recognised as a breed by the Royal Kennel Club, there is little data on how many there are. Numbers are believed to be in the thousands.
There are hardly any fatal attacks--2 last year, 6 this year--so this sounds like standard media scare-mongering. Especially if they don't know how many of these dogs exist (and if they are not a recognized breed, then how is it determined that they responsible for the attacks?)
We see it in the US as well with the growing hysteria round pit bulls. There are 4.5 million pit bulls responsible for a couple dozen serious attacks and everyone reaches for the smelling salts and demands they be banned.
Major Questions Doctrine.
Liberals keep trying to perfect society by banning things rather than punishing the negligent or malicious behavior of free moral agents, and yet society continues to erode at an ever-accelerating rate into chaos and barbarism wherever progressive ideology prevails. By their own peculiar logic, the ultimate solution to social ills is the banning of progressivism.
What was that Albert Einstein quotation about insanity...?
"By "fatal dog attacks" is meant what: death of another dog or similar pet, or death of a human being?"
We're talking about human beings.
If you read the whole article, you'll see that this breed is being churned out to meet demand from people who, many of them, don't have the right frame of mind for doing the necessary training.
They are people who want to pose as powerful or dangerous.
At this point the dog is terrifying to other people so those who are choosing this breed are influenced by that knowledge.
There was a time when the Dobermann Pinscher (unaccountably rendered minus the final n by the AKC) was the "bad boy" dog, a hair-trigger killing machine according to Hollywood. Now, the canine murder weapon of choice is an ill-defined "I know one when I see one" non-breed.
Evidently, Oxbridge has excised Avoidance of Idiocy from the course catalog.
Most people who own dogs have no idea what they're doing. Same could be said of them parenting children, but that's another topic for another time. When it comes to dogs, I've seen, for years, people with mild behavior dogs doing totally inappropriate things, such as letting their dogs roam freely among other dogs leashed up. It's just asking for trouble.
I've not heard of the American Bully XL, but it surely has Pit Bull in it. And it looks huge. I don't understand anyone who has a regular Pit Bull these days, especially around kids or if you have senior neighbors. They do what they were bred to do. And no...I don't need anyone telling me they're sweet dogs. I'm sure some of them are. But...their genes also have another story that, under the right circumstances, gets fulfilled. Unless you are 'on it' and stay in charge of the dog, not letting them out unleashed, around kids or seniors, or other dogs...Not even leaving them in a fenced in yard by themselves. I had one come by our house sniffing for our dog, who...started barking wildly. I actually went out and got the Pit Bull who- toward me- was fine. He was lost, was somewhat scared. I got him to come to me and got his owners phone off of his tag. But...he had been left in the yard in a neighboring community, and over time dug his way under the fence. I know this because after I contacted the owners the first time, the dog was back a day later. They apologized again and explained that they were working on fixing the 'fence problem'. I didn't see it as a 'fence problem'. Had my dog been outside at the time- I suspect it would not have ended well for anyone.
My opinion: Multiple attacks? Deaths from the Bully XL? They should be banned.
Althouse writes, "They are people who want to pose as powerful or dangerous."
Let them pose however they like. Most people aren't fooled by such displays, though there is always a residue of Casper Milquetoasts and Nervous Nellies who will be intimidated by anything. Making the world safe for the spineless is a quest even Don Quixote would decline as self-defeating. Self-government depends on a modicum of defiant cussedness, whereas the easily intimidated are ideal subjects of a tyranny.
Campaigns to ban X because some soaking-wet social media influencers are afraid of it, only make X more attractive to persons more likely than most to own and use X to its most detrimental purpose. History teaches that lesson time and time again, and a certain type fails to learn it time and time again. Professor Einstein, any comments?
"We're talking about human beings." OK. Sorry not to do my homework and read the whole thing.
Seems to me that what is rapidly emerging is strong evidence that this breed is a loaded gun. Being given to every half-wit for exactly the wrong reasons: to intimidate everyone in sight, to support a strutting macho image, to fend off potential aggressors with an indiscriminate bloodthirsty agent.
In passing I will say "poor dogs" because what do they know? They're wired this way, and probably abused in their early days, and so we get this impossible situation.
I'd start with strict liability on the owner (and breeder, and any trainer). I'd follow up with vicarious liability for any harm to humans: if the dog assaults or kills a human being, the dog goes down and the human stands trial for assault, manslaughter or murder.
There. All done!
Any animal that can bite your face off is a problem. Cows can do that, too, they just don't get the opportunity to do it very often, so are not considered a face-bitten-off risk. Dogs are problematic because their instinctual behavior to be aggressive and bite someone's face off also may only occur under rare circumstances, but it is there all the time (just like with the cows) and dogs have frequent opportunities to do so when triggered.
Ban the dogs. They are dangerous animals and need to be kept penned or leashed at all times. I say that after growing up with Dobies, Pit Bulls, Rotters, and Cocker Spaniels. Guess which breed was the one to bite a family member, drawing blood?
I can only assume that George Sorros does not like these dogs for some sinister reason.
If you prefixed the "Bully" epithet with any other ethnic name and declared it a breed, wouldn't such nomenclature be considered racist?
All I know is Blu never once barked at anybody in public or attacked or reacted to aggression. He chased balls and preened to chicks from 3-80. I’m still grieving.
Temujin,
I disagree. If you want them banned, ban them because people don't know how to handle dogs. Not because it's a pit. I live in a part of town where there's so many dogs that it's not unusual to find a pack, 5 to 13 deep, roaming the neighborhood and ready to sidle-up on you to see what you're about, and, if you don't understand pack mentality, I feel for you. Never been a problem.
There are people who know how to handle dogs, and their dogs are fine around anyone - you want them around. I know other people who never let their dogs out of the house, or off of a chain, for almost their entire lives, and they never know what they're going to do, because they're always screaming "No!" or demanding the animal come to them to get a kick in the side. It all depends. Most people are just ignorant of the basics.
Ban them.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"...this breed is being churned out to meet demand from people who, many of them, don't have the right frame of mind for doing the necessary training.
They are people who want to pose as powerful or dangerous.
At this point the dog is terrifying to other people so those who are choosing this breed are influenced by that knowledge."
If this breed is outlawed, they will just gravitate to another "breed" that serves that same purpose
Cantankerous canines or caretakers? The boys and girls, too?
Temujin,
"Fence problem"?
And the dog came back the very next day? Whatever happened to SSS?
I've known two breeders of AKC stature. One of Dobes and one of Harrier Hounds (British certified) back in the late 80s.
At the time, the Doberman hereabouts was "carelessly bred" for fighting/defense and conformation. Conformation problems arose when they were bred for "cranial conformation". Such carelessness led to narrow skulls in the breed. As that dog grew older the brain was compromised and the dog would go nutso.
Both breeders maintained scrupulous computer histories on their dogs, going back many generations. They bred zero problems.
Meaner than a junkyard dog is careless breeding by hacks. Hence "churned out" applies.
What makes the bully breeds (pit bulls,Dobies, Rotties, etc) different from other breeds how they attack you. They don’t just nip you and run away like Labs or retrievers. They will come after you and finish the job.
I have had five pit bulls. They were all sweet. One, however, had been abused and abandoned. Let me just say she wasn’t ready for prime time. A little unpredictable.
“Cookie did not attack Keven, he’s a big boy and plays too rough.”
The idea that the dog accidentally killed a man while it was playing seems worse to me than one that was acting territoriality with a man that it was not completely familiar with.
I'm sure not all pit bulls cause injuries to either humans or other dogs. The thing is, however- enough do that I do not trust them and I'm not willing to test the "He's actually real friendly" claim. BTW, I also don't trust chihuahuas, the difference between the two being the potential harm each dog might inflict varies by at least an order of magnitude.
The only pit bull I have ever been personally been introduced to was owned by a friend who absolutely adored the dog, and the dog seemed exceptionally friendly. My friend needed stitches in his face after being bitten by his dog. Just an anecdote, I know. but still...
Mikee- cows don’t have top front teeth.
Sure, if you call a puppy a bully from birth what do you expect him to become, it’s nature, not nurture. We all know that, except for Steve Pinker.
“Ban the dogs. They are dangerous animals and need to be kept penned or leashed at all times. I say that after growing up with Dobies, Pit Bulls, Rotters, and Cocker Spaniels. Guess which breed was the one to bite a family member, drawing blood?”
The trend is running in the opposite direction. Used to be, not that many years ago, that dogs in public were rare. Now you see them in restaurants, grocery stores, etc. The hotel we are living in used to charge, only a couple years ago, $100 a night. Now it is maybe $25 per visit. The limitation used to be 25lbs cumulative, now it is 75 lbs each, and we occasionally see 100 lb dogs. Even a year ago, there wasn’t much competition for the dog relief area here at the hotel. Now, it’s pretty much in steady use from maybe 6 am to midnight.
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