Writes Myra Adams in an opinion column at The Hill titled "'Give me an eight!' DeSantis must tout his constitutional advantage over Trump."
I'm seeing this "8 years" argument all over the place this morning. I chose to quote this particular column because of the idea that DeSantis "must" make this argument. All political candidates try to use whatever good arguments they have, and the "8 years" argument is a good one for DeSantis. Myra Adams seems to be straining to make him seem desperate, like he's resorting to this argument for lack of other arguments.
By the way, it's interesting to watch Trump counter the "8 years" argument. Don't worry. If he gets back in office, he'll only be there for 4 years, max.
Posts
91 comments:
Best suggested DeSantis attack on Trump:
Trump is continuing to brag about the vaccine and his approach to Covid.
Most of his base is greatly suspicious about the vaccine, masking, etc.
DeSantis should use this as a wedge issue.
If only DeSantis might have other advantages... maybe we could ask the residents of Pine Island.
Neither Donald Trump, nor Joe Biden, are - technically speaking - running "for President."
They're running "to stay out of jail." They could care less about being President.
The problem is that he doesn't have 8 years, he has four years and then another election. This means that DeSantis will have every political advisor telling him that he needs to pull back on the culture war stuff, or radical reforms. "Do it after you win reelection."
"We can't push major reforms of the FBI, because it will scare away moderate voters."
"We can't push major reforms of education, because it will scare away moderate voters."
"We can't push major reforms of..."
If DeSantis made peace with Trump and went for veep, they could tout 12 years in office. We can all pull out our math argument.
I trust Trump to run the country for 4 more years. DeSantis hasn't convinced me I want him for 4, let alone 8.
Ron made that point in his stump speech in CB.
Trump makes his televangelist promises.
Not surprisingly, all of the media is talking about the latest talking point at the same time. It's incredible how often this happens. What are the odds?
From my POV, RDS has only advantages over the guy whose self-regard overrides everything else in a way that makes me cringe.
But here's an advantage I haven't seen spoken of: Who can Trump get to fill his cabinet and WH appointments? No one capable, that's for sure.
Looking at how the lives/future prospects of those who otherwise did nothing wrong have been ruined by their mere association with him, as well as those whom he's trashed personally when he felt their were "disloyal" to him personally, you'd have to be out of your mind to say yes to a President Trump invite. Either that or unqualified for high-level jobs elsewhere. His idea of "the best people" are those who'll kiss his ass.
Trump's 2025 wretched hive of scum and villainy will make the Mos Eisley spaceport look like a 14th century French nunnery.
2, 4, 6, 8, who do we nominate!
Scott Adams calls DeSantis "The Trump Tribute Band". He's not wrong.
Potential campaign slogan "Almost as good as Trump without the mean Tweets!"
My worry about DeSantis is who owns him. He seems owned by the big money bankers/financiers/Bush retreads etc. My concern is that he will be working for them, not us.
My concern is that he will be co-opted by the FBI/CIA and will not be strong enough to resist.
My concern is that he will get the same level of shit thrown at him as President Trump did but unlike President Trump, he will not be able or perhaps willing to resist it.
Donald Trump, for all his faults has a proven record and there is no reason not to assume that he will not govern in his second term as he did in his first. DeSantis is an unknown quantity.
Why take a chance?
John LGBTQ Henry
It's a silly argument when you know the opposition is going to cheat, precluding the possibility of even four years.
The nominee should be whoever can articulate the best plan to overcome the fraud now built in to balloting in the swing states. Shit, I'd even vote for Mike Pence if he could come up with something credible.
By the way, it's interesting to watch Trump counter the "8 years" argument. Don't worry. If he gets back in office, he'll only be there for 4 years, max.
Trump last night made the argument he only needs months to turn the Biden mess around. An interesting contrast to the argument DeSantis needs eight years, which many Republican voters, based on experience, have come to understand as meaning "never."
DeSantis might also be suggesting that the other presidential contender, Dementia Joe, isn't going to serve for a total of 8 years, no matter how many votes he garners in 2024, even if he starts a constant adrenochrome drip by IV.
How about 4 years of Trump followed by 8 years of DeSantis?
Why don't the Dems take the 'give me an 8' approach as well? If they replaced Joe, the new guy or gal could also be there for 8 years.
Joe originally said he wouldn't seek a 2nd term because of his age, remember? Of course, nobody believed that, but he did say it.
Why are the Dems so allergic to a primary? RFK would kick Joe's ass and probably Trump's. But he's not part of the cabal. Joe is totally controllable and completely dependent on the cabal.
A primary would be kind of a wild card. Much safer to replace the Vice President, then put Joe out to pasture after the election. The cabal can't afford to have anyone get into office who might expose them or control them with threats of exposure like they now control Joe.
I don't understand why people who think 2020 was stolen still think 2024 will be any different. Why would it be?
Idolatry aside, DeSantis appears to be the better candidate.
Don't worry. If he gets back in office, he'll only be there for 4 years, max.
What's to worry about? Four years of Trump is way better than the shit the country is going through now. Liberals aren't worried about 8 years of DeSantis?
Both Trump and DeSantis seem to be the antithesis of the current installed regime.
Plus, if either Trump or DeSantis win the Presidency, it would be a good sign that Democrat voter fraud can be overcome.
I'm more worried about Democrat voter fraud, and the people who pretend it doesn't exist.
The "8 years" argument is a stupid one. Every president who runs for a consecutive second term is also an instant lame duck. If we fix try to this by further limiting the presidency to a single term then all future presidents will become instant lame ducks too. The only real answer to this problem is to repeal the 22nd amendment.
Trump can have Bill Clinton lead the effort to change the Constitution:
Clinton Wants Third Term in Office
I agree the 8 years argument is sound. But, elect Trump, then DeSantis,= 12 years. 50% better.
DeSantis' biggest disadvantage with the Trump base is he's not the guy that was taken out via voter fraud in the 2020 election.
That's a huge sticking point with much of the Trump base. We all watched in happen in real time...slowly...methodically.
Trump wins FL, NC, OH....and then somehow, if four main swing states, AZ, MI, GA, and PA...somebody says it's time to stop counting, with Trump holding huge leads in all four states. Then we watched the secret, behind screen counts drag out in Philly, Atlanta, Detroit, and Maricopa County AZ. At least Wisconsin dumped their fraud in same night, and 4am.
DeSantis would be a great President. He's rocked it in FL. But to "move on" from the 2020 voter fraud means it is now baked in...forever. That's the real end to our "democracy".
Former Trump, now DeSantis supporters argue "DeSantis is electable". Not unless the targeted voter fraud in the swing states is dealt with / defeated. Trump supporters know it's a risk, but a risk worth taking. It's the only way to right the ship.
DeSantis talked about having 8 years to work yesterday and Trump responded that he only needed 6 months to enact his agenda, presumably by a raft of executive orders. To which DeSantis responded "Why didn't you enact your agenda when you were president the first time?". Spicy.
Why do you think Trump would only stay for four years? Do you think that he has such respect for our constitutional system that he wouldn't even try to stay in office longer through one crazy mechanism or another? Or do you think that he's sane enough to realize that not even the adoring Trump followers would support such an effort?
"What'll take YawnRon eight years to do, I'll do in four!"
How about this as an approach?
Trump has been rolled by the deep state more times than an Easter egg on the Whitehouse lawn. Instead of draining the swamp, the swamp drained him, over and over again. A cunning leader would have seen it coming and stratgeized to fend it off, use proxies, find indirect lines of attack, read Sun Tzu, for Christ sake. But nooo (Belushi voice), if your only tool is a wrecking ball, all problems need wrecking. We love a fighter. He fought and, with some wonderful exceptions, lost repeatedly--the midterms, the 2020 election, the predictable J6 fiasco, the failure to prepare for/preempt the election and legal onslaught, his own traitorous staff selections. All Trump's losing makes him a sympathetic figure. He's adored, with some justification, by just enough voters to win the primary, clearly too few to win the general. The pathological hatred of the man is just too strong for him to turn around, even if he had the capacity and wiles to adjust.
So we need to make a decision. Stick with a loser or go with DeSantis who, at least, has shown cunning and skill and strategy in turning his state red and backfooting the radical progressives. So, love Trump, send him flowers, but, for the sake of winning the future, vote DeSantis.
Kate said...
If DeSantis made peace with Trump and went for veep, they could tout 12 years in office. We can all pull out our math argument.
I trust Trump to run the country for 4 more years. DeSantis hasn't convinced me I want him for 4, let alone 8.
6/2/23, 8:36 AM
THIS^^^^
I agree with every single person that talked about voter fraud, and how NOTHING has been done about it.
Douglas B. Levene said...
Why do you think Trump would only stay for four years? Do you think that he has such respect for our constitutional system that he wouldn't even try to stay in office longer through one crazy mechanism or another? Or do you think that he's sane enough to realize that not even the adoring Trump followers would support such an effort?
6/2/23, 12:10 PM
WHY you say that when he left peacefully in 2020 after the fraudulent President was put in the White House just shows that you have a SEVERE case of TDS and should immediately go to the Emergency room and get help.
Mussolini defined fascism as
"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
Donald Trump was our most anti-fascist president ever with the possible exception of Coolidge.
What is DeSantis position on state power? How much is appropriate? How fascist is he?
With Brandon we know the answer. Very, deeply, extremely, fascist.
Centralizing all power in the state is a basic tenet of Marxist socialism.
John LGBTQ Henry
Douglas B. Levene said...
Why do you think Trump would only stay for four years? Do you think that he has such respect for our constitutional system that he wouldn't even try to stay in office longer through one crazy mechanism or another?
Delusional much, Doug?
The Obama Admin weaponized the FBI and FISA to illegally go after the Trump campaign and Trump Administration.
The Biden Administration is using the FBI, NSA, and CIA to spy on and censor Americans, in complete violation of the law.
J6 protesters have been having their civil rights completely violated, and been given sentences completely and utterly disproportionate to any crime they might have committed
The FBI and DoJ are violating the law going after whistleblowers about Biden Admin corruption.
But it's "Trump" who's the insane threat to the US Constitution?
I am no longer a Trump fan, but YOU are a raging lunatic
Looking at the differences in the number of people showing in Iowa up for DeSantis events vs Trump events, I no longer believe the "Trump is up by 30 / 50% over DeSantis" polls have any real meaning.
Watching Trump flail when he does speak strengthens that lack of belief
It's over a year until the GOP convention.
The reality of the Trump Admin was that he had a mostly great first 3 years (although his failure to fire Wray in 2018 after the Mueller report came out is pretty much disqualifying), but he utterly failed the challenge of Covid. Firing Atlas. Not firing Brix and Fauci. Now picking fights with DeSantis where Trump is praising Granny killer Cuomo.
The Deep State beat Trump, and there is zero reason to believe that he would do better against them the 2nd time around. It's 8 years from the start of the 2015 campaign, and Trump does not have the "zip" he had then.
If you want what Trump promised in 2016, DeSantis is your only hope of actually getting it
PM said...
"What'll take YawnRon eight years to do, I'll do in four!"
Then why didn't you do it in the first four, Don?
Blogger BIII Zhang said...
Neither Donald Trump, nor Joe Biden, are - technically speaking - running "for President."
They're running "to stay out of jail." They could care less about being President.
Well, it's working so well for Biden.
Mr Wibble said...
The problem is that he doesn't have 8 years, he has four years and then another election. This means that DeSantis will have every political advisor telling him that he needs to pull back on the culture war stuff, or radical reforms. "Do it after you win reelection."
Reality check: He did all those things BEFORE re-election in Florida. "Don't say Gay", Fighting Disney. Shipping illegal aliens to Martha's Vineyard
And he's doing more of them while running for President.
He's not talking, he's doing. Is your problem that you're just so mentally screwed up you can't tell the difference between the two?
"We can't push major reforms of the FBI, because it will scare away moderate voters."
"We can't push major reforms of education, because it will scare away moderate voters."
That's the TRUMO story line, not the DeSantis one.
It's Trump who didn't clean up the FBI when he was President, thus enabling them to team up with Big Tech to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story before the 2020 election
It's Trump who never issued any of those EOs he's talking about, while he actually was President
Apparently you're a true blue leftist, because you're busy projecting on DeSantis all the things your guy actually did
cassandra lite: "From my POV, RDS has only advantages over the guy whose self-regard overrides everything else in a way that makes me cringe."
How would you answer blue collar midwesterners who ask why DeSantis, while in congress, supported both TPP and TPA (along with Hillary and the globalists), voted multiple times to raise the age requirements for Social Security and medicare, and was a pure Paul Ryan toady on trade, immigration and forever war policies?
Those same blue collar/working class/middle class voters might also ask how it could be that DeSantis will deliver for them economically when all of DeSantis major funders and GOPe staffers opposed all the Trump policies in those key policy areas?
These questions should be quite easy, effortless really, to answer since supposedly DeSantis "has only advantages" over the deplorable walmart-voter supported OrangeManBad.
Darkisland said...
Scott Adams calls DeSantis "The Trump Tribute Band". He's not wrong.
Potential campaign slogan "Almost as good as Trump without the mean Tweets!"
Except he's better than Trump. I'll detail why below
My worry about DeSantis is who owns him. He seems owned by the big money bankers/financiers/Bush retreads etc. My concern is that he will be working for them, not us.
Ace of Spades did a great post on this. his point was that we've been repeatedly screwed by people who talked, but didn't act.
The problem for your story line is that DeSantis has been acting, not just talking.
Ended the Covid lockdowns in FL
Sued and beat Cruise lines that wanted to dock in FL, but also wanted to force "vaccine passports" on customers
Fired gov't employees who refused to get with the program (something Trump singularly failed to do, see Wray, Fauci, Miley, ...)
Went to war against Disney, and is winning
Went to war against Big Tech, and hasn't lost yet
Actually acting on CRT, Education reforms, trans issue, and immigration
You can make a reasonably case that someone who talks before being elected won't act after he's elected
What you can't sanely make the case is that someone will act for years before the election, but will stop acting in order to get re-elected
My concern is that he will be co-opted by the FBI/CIA and will not be strong enough to resist.
You mean like Trump was?
No, unlike Trump, DeSantis:
1: Fires people who get int eh way (see Rebecca Jones, and various Soros prosecutors)
2: Hires people who actually WILL push his agenda (See Chris Rufo, for an obvious example)
My concern is that he will get the same level of shit thrown at him as President Trump did but unlike President Trump, he will not be able or perhaps willing to resist it.
He's been getting that level of shit thrown at him since May of 2020, and hasn't buckled.
Trump, OTOH, DID buckle. Which is why Wray, Fauci, and Brix weren't fired. Which is why the FBI was never cleaned up under Trump.
Donald Trump, for all his faults has a proven record and there is no reason not to assume that he will not govern in his second term as he did in his first. DeSantis is an unknown quantity.
Why take a chance?
DeSantis has been governing Florida longer than Trump was President. He has more of a record, with a better outcome.
Trump has a proven track record: he was beaten by the Deep State, and absolutely sucked at personnel
A vote for Trump is a vote for hope over experience. A vote for DeSantis is a vote for an actual winner
Mountain Maven: "To which DeSantis responded "Why didn't you enact your agenda when you were president the first time?". Spicy."
One reason is that from the very beginning of Trump's presidency he was under direct threat of impeachment by the democraticals and their GOPe allies....the same GOPe-ers that support DeSantis now.
And guess what? A plurality, and possibly a majority, of republican primary voters know it.
Good luck trying to convince those voters that policy "success" for them could be just around the corner if only they dump Trump...the only leader on the GOP side that never shat upon them.
Spoiler: Those voters are unlikely to believe you.
Hey, you know what we could really use from our current GOP "leaders" right now?: another gun control bill...and to refederalize abortion!...and another illegal immigration amnesty...and another hundred billion for Ukraine...and 87,000 - 1,500 (wink wink) more IRS agents and a pentagon sized facility for the weaponized FBI...and an omnibus budget that locks in all democratical policy funding for 2 more years!
Oh wait. The GOPe-ers did actually give us all that and more....all the while letting us know how much they despise the republican base.
We definitely need to reward those dudes.
Reality check:
If Donald Trump were the man that his supporters think he is, then Trump would have fired Wray in 2018. Then he would have appointed someone honest who would have cleaned house, firing all the corrupt Obama Admin holdovers, and at a minimum we would have spent the last 3 weeks of the 2020 election with a broad public discussion of the corruption of the Biden family as was exposed by the Hunter Biden laptop.
After which Trump and the GOP would have won in a crushing romp.
Because without the Big Tech censorship that was made in direct response to direction from the Trump FBI, the NY Post Hunter Biden laptop story would have spread all over social media in a day, and been unkillable.
We are in this situation now because Trump got his ass kicked by the Deep State
I was hoping to see clear explication of those Desantis advantages, but the best I found so far was this:
How about 4 years of Trump followed by 8 years of DeSantis?
Yes embrace the power of "and" instead of "or." My hunt for Desantis advantages continues...
So as of 11:30 local time (1:30 p.m. Althouse zone) commenters have listed exactly ZERO advantages and a grand total of ZERO "substantial advantages" Desantis has over Trump.
Man, don't make me read the linked article to find them! I'm truly curious.
Wait, that's it? "I can do eight." That is the substantial advantage?
I don't understand why people who think 2020 was stolen still think 2024 will be any different. Why would it be?
I think that there was fraud, but that it wasn't this massive, ginormous thing. I think that the Dems panicked on election night when it looked like the GOP would retake the House. Trump reelected but with Congress firmly in the hands of the Dems would have rendered him a lame duck for four years. Biden was meant as a sacrificial candidate, because out of the entire field he was the least likely to do damage down-ballot. Trump reelected and carrying the GOP to control of Congress again would have been a huge vindication for him and Trumpism.
2024 won't be 2020. There's no COVID to terrify suburban white voters, and Biden can be a blank slate hidden away from the public. He has a record now, and people don't like it. Trump looks a lot better in comparison.
The problem for DeSantis is that he comes across as a GOP politician. A competent one, but a GOP politician nonetheless. And the GOP is a dying brand. It makes people naturally distrustful of his campaign. Combine that with the "f you" attitude a lot of people have towards attempts to tell them to move on from Trump, and it's not surprising that his campaign is already faltering.
Mike (MJB Wolf): "I was hoping to see clear explication of those Desantis advantages, but the best I found so far was this:"
The "clear" DeSantis advantages are never really explicated at all, beyond Not Trump.
Most of the DeSantis early supporters have wisely abandoned the clearly inoperative claim that with DeSantis we can have "Trump policies without the Trump drama". Given DeSantis' advisors, funders and staffers, its clear on economic, trade and foreign policy DeSantis will represent and deliver anti-Trump policies.
And Ron will be age 46. Those were the two "substantial advantages" Ron has to offer according to Myra. And now I remember why I stopped reading The Hill after Mort Kondracke and Fred Barnes retired. What lightweight fluff this article was.
Personal note. I wanted and expected a strong challenger to Trump this primary season because that helps the eventual nominee. Desantis has been disappointing. He's low energy like Jeb! and far too wonky for a Republican party that says its top two concerns right now are the economy and our border crisis, followed closely by energy needs and supply chain issues. I have not heard Ron speak* to ANY of those issues and the sound bites that bubble up -- "he calls me by a name" and "I'll end leftism" -- are insipid and uninspiring and weak. What the hell? When is Candidate Ron going to show up?
*Luckily for Desantis's whiny nasal tone we have RFK in the race to claim the title of Most Horrible Public Speaking Voice. But if he drops out Ron takes the crown. You'd think he'd work on that.
"Trump last night made the argument he only needs months to turn the Biden mess around."
He had 4 years, yet left the entire Deep State edifice stand.
"Why do you think Trump would only stay for four years? Do you think that he has such respect for our constitutional system that he wouldn't even try to stay in office longer through one crazy mechanism or another?
Seriously?
MAGAts, accept no substitute.
There can be only one highlander
If Trump would just dial it back a little and not directly attack DeSantis (or people like Kayleigh McEneny), there could be twelve years of Trump/DeSantis - which might actually right the ship. And people would feel much more like there was a plan.
How about this as an approach?
Trump has been rolled by the deep state more times than an Easter egg on the Whitehouse lawn. Instead of draining the swamp, the swamp drained him, over and over again. A cunning leader would have seen it coming and stratgeized to fend it off, use proxies, find indirect lines of attack, read Sun Tzu, for Christ sake. But nooo (Belushi voice), if your only tool is a wrecking ball, all problems need wrecking. We love a fighter. He fought and, with some wonderful exceptions, lost repeatedly--the midterms, the 2020 election, the predictable J6 fiasco, the failure to prepare for/preempt the election and legal onslaught, his own traitorous staff selections. All Trump's losing makes him a sympathetic figure. He's adored, with some justification, by just enough voters to win the primary, clearly too few to win the general. The pathological hatred of the man is just too strong for him to turn around, even if he had the capacity and wiles to adjust.
So we need to make a decision. Stick with a loser or go with DeSantis who, at least, has shown cunning and skill and strategy in turning his state red and backfooting the radical progressives. So, love Trump, send him flowers, but, for the sake of winning the future, vote DeSantis.
A columnist for The Hill offering advice that will help DeSantis get elected president? I think not. Just another version of anti-Trump rationale. If Trump were eliminated as a candidate, the thrust of her articles would shift against DeSantis.
Blogger Mountain Maven said...
...Trump responded that he only needed 6 months to enact his agenda, presumably by a raft of executive orders. To which DeSantis responded "Why didn't you enact your agenda when you were president the first time?". Spicy.
A simple answer: Biden's reversal of Trump policies didn't take effect until after Trump was out of office.
Trump & Biden will be dead soon.
"These questions should be quite easy, effortless really, to answer since supposedly DeSantis "has only advantages" over the deplorable walmart-voter supported OrangeManBad.
Prediction: You won't get answers.
After Trump sins the primary (sadly)..
watch the hack D press turn on Trump again... viciously and peppered with their sad but effective lies:
Impeached twice, embroiled in Jan 6th insurrection, rapist!, illegal documents at Mar-a-lago and on and on...
(the only real scandal - the MSM ignores for some reason - Trump's former stamp of approval for a BS pyramid scheme)
The MSM know Trump is a Democrat get-out-the-vote machine maniac.
Drag Show is still firmly on team-Trump.
Boring... and we get to hear about it. over and over.
Why do you think Trump would only stay for four years? Do you think that he has such respect for our constitutional system that he wouldn't even try to stay in office longer through one crazy mechanism or another? Or do you think that he's sane enough to realize that not even the adoring Trump followers would support such an effort?
It never ceases to amaze me how you constantly come up with these fantasies of what Trump might do ... and yet he never does any of them.
Trump is 76 years old. No thanks. We've had enough ego dick-stepper billionaire dick stepping.
Plus - assume Trump wins? 4 years will cause that pendulum to swing again and we'll get weekend at Biden's part 3.
doncha love how the hack D-press use only negative language when it comes to any R.
"Exploit"
F U - MSM hack D propaganda one party rule - press.
Ron should have fun and go for..."I have a bigger cock and a hotter wife".
"those Desantis advantages, but the best I found so far"
Besides being a winner rather than a loser, a record of actual conservative governance, and not being a Fauci fanboy.
"Don't worry. If he gets back in office, he'll only be there for 4 years, max. "
I dunno. Maybe when he gets elected he will decide to play by the same rules the bastards used against him. I.e., the rules are whatever the people with power decide they are.
I don't like it but this is where we are.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I was hoping to see clear explication of those Desantis advantages,
Here you go:
You can't accomplish much of anything in politics by yourself. You need a team of people who will work for your goals even when you're not watching them
Trump does not have that team, and has no idea who to build such a team.
DeSantis has such a team. AS Gov of Florida he has consistently fired people who tried to push a left wing agenda, and hired, a nd supported, people who support a right wing agenda
See Rebekah Jones and two Soros prosecutors for the firing side, and Chris Rufo as a very recent example of the hiring side.
Trump was defeated by the Deep State because he is incompetent at the personnel game.
DeSantis will be able to beat the Deep State because he will fire them, and replace them with people who will fire more of them, and keep on firing until we get security agencies that do their jobs.
Any questions?
Drago said...
One reason is that from the very beginning of Trump's presidency he was under direct threat of impeachment by the democraticals and their GOPe allies....the same GOPe-ers that support DeSantis now.
So, your defense of Trump is that he was a coward who refused to fight?
Because that's what I read you saying.
"Oh, he couldn't fire Wray because those mean GOPe people threatened him!"
Those mean GOPe people are still going to be there in 2025. What you're promising us is that a re-elected President Trump will produce another 4 years of failure.
I dont' believe that's the winning argument you think it is
Drago said...
How would you answer blue collar midwesterners who ask why DeSantis, while in congress, supported both TPP and TPA (along with Hillary and the globalists), voted multiple times to raise the age requirements for Social Security and medicare, and was a pure Paul Ryan toady on trade, immigration and forever war policies?
Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt, and will do so faster if we don't raise the retirement age. He voted to raise it because that's what you do if you dont' want it to crash and leave everyone screwed
He voted for TPP and TPA because a great number of us were wrong about what was best for America, and learned that during the Trump years. Same on immigration.
What do you have a problem with Gov DeSantis having done for the last 5 years in Florida?
myra has a skill at missing the point, which has been unmatched for about a dozen years, I keep track of these things,
Gusty Winds said...
DeSantis' biggest disadvantage with the Trump base is he's not the guy that was taken out via voter fraud in the 2020 election.
That's a huge sticking point with much of the Trump base. We all watched in happen in real time...slowly...methodically.
Yeah, DeSantis is the guy who reformed Florida's voting so that the fraud couldn't happen there.
Trump lost to vote fraud in 2020 because Trump sat on his ass and let the Democrats run wild.
We the People got screwed. Trump's failures are why we got screwed.
I don't see why I should reward Trump for his failing in 2020 with my vote in 2024. I don't like losers
Instant lame duck.
The last guy elected to split terms was before the 22nd.
@Mike Wolf and others
Since the 22nd, and even before, it is extraordinarily hard for one party to hold the WH for more than 8 years with more than one person without a VP ascending to the Presidency at some point. The only successful example in the 20th or 21st Centuries is Reagan to GHWB (FDR doesn't count, one man for 3 terms and Truman only got reelected once).
It is far more likely that we'll get 4+ years of Biden and at least 4 years of Harris than 4 years of Trump and 8 of DeSantis.
I supported Trump, but (after he won) he lost. He lost because he was outsmarted by the ESTABLISHMENT. Look at his public statements in support of Faucicare. Sure DeSantis has the advantage that he saw and learned from Trump's failures, but he DID learn, and Trump hasn't. Gov. DeSantis is NOT Gov. Jeb Bush. He's the REAL new guy in town. Think about this: Is calling the Governor of Florida "DeSantictimoniuos" a substantive critique? Do we really want to have our side govern, or call the other side names? Look at how badly we have been governed by a weak and ineffective President. Do you think Trump would do better the second time around?
The Godfather: "Gov. DeSantis is NOT Gov. Jeb Bush. He's the REAL new guy in town."
Shouldn't be too difficult to convince republican primary voters then.
Good luck.
Greg: "I don't see why I should reward Trump for his failing in 2020 with my vote in 2024. I don't like losers"
Sounds like a compelling primary campaign argument.
That should just about wrap it up for DeSantis.
Maybe its time to start thinking about who DeSantis should choose as VP for his inevitable general election campaign.
Greg: "Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt, and will do so faster if we don't raise the retirement age. He voted to raise it because that's what you do if you dont' want it to crash and leave everyone screwed
He voted for TPP and TPA because a great number of us were wrong about what was best for America, and learned that during the Trump years. Same on immigration."
Has DeSantis made those arguments or are you mindreading.
Feel free to post links.
We'll wait.
Greg: "So, your defense of Trump is that he was a coward who refused to fight?"
Clearly not.
Greg: "Because that's what I read you saying."
Yes, that is what you claim to read me as saying.
Good luck with your newly discovered "Trump was a coward who refused to fight" campaign slogan.
I suspect you can pull maybe half of Asa Hutchison's 0.6% support into your column with it.
Now if you can string about 90 more "wins" like that you'll really have something.
Not to worry though. Your GOPe/Dem allies will make sure to remove Trump from the race....though afterwards I cant guarantee the plurality or slight majority of Trump supporting GOP primary voters will appreciate DeSantis being seen as the beneficiary of the dem/GOPe lawfare effort.
Might impact their general election behavior.
Greg: "DeSantis will be able to beat the Deep State because he will fire them, and replace them with people who will fire more of them, and keep on firing until we get security agencies that do their jobs."
That is certainly a claim.
Flip-side Inga (Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker): "Trump is 76 years old. No thanks. We've had enough ego dick-stepper billionaire dick stepping."
That belongs on a campaign banner.
Is Vegas taking book on Biden being on the ballot in 24?
There is absolutely no way that happens. None. They’d kill him first. The Dems I mean.
Drago said...
Most of the DeSantis early supporters have wisely abandoned the clearly inoperative claim that with DeSantis we can have "Trump policies without the Trump drama". Given DeSantis' advisors, funders and staffers, its clear on economic, trade and foreign policy DeSantis will represent and deliver anti-Trump policies.
Please name the DeSantis staffers who are GOPe tools, how it is that you know they are GOPe tools, and their current roles in the DeSantis Admin.
If you ever do that, I'll return to telling you why your'e wrong.
But having done so multiple times already, and having had you completely ignore my points (not "respond to", but "completely ignore because you have no response"), I'm not wasting any more time on that claim until you actually back it up
Drago said...
Greg: "I don't see why I should reward Trump for his failing in 2020 with my vote in 2024. I don't like losers"
Sounds like a compelling primary campaign argument.
So you agree Trump completely screwed up 2020.
But you still support him because you like losers?
Dodging the argument is the same thing as stating you know the argument is 100% correct
Drago said...
Greg: "Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt, and will do so faster if we don't raise the retirement age. He voted to raise it because that's what you do if you dont' want it to crash and leave everyone screwed
He voted for TPP and TPA because a great number of us were wrong about what was best for America, and learned that during the Trump years. Same on immigration."
Has DeSantis made those arguments or are you mindreading.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/09/ron-desantis-bills-ban-chinese-citizens-buying-land-florida
DeSantis signs bills banning Chinese citizens from buying land in Florida
That's not a "globalist" action
Then there's this from Trump:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-desantis-stand-5-financial-issues-including-taxes/story?id=99514951
In a 2000 book he wrote called "The America We Deserve," Trump backed raising the retirement age to 70 and called Social Security a "Ponzi scheme." He also said in 1999 that he was open to privatizing Social Security, though he said he didn't "like the idea."
Drago said...
Greg: "So, your defense of Trump is that he was a coward who refused to fight?"
Clearly not.
Not so. your justification was that Trump couldn't do things because the GOPe would attack him if he did
That's being a coward
Greg: "Because that's what I read you saying."
Yes, that is what you claim to read me as saying.
Dodging the argument is the same thing as stating you know the argument is 100% correct.
Greg: "Not so. your justification was that Trump couldn't do things because the GOPe would attack him if he did
That's being a coward"
If you say so.
I doubt the bulk of the republican base sees it that way.
Greg: "Dodging the argument is the same thing as stating you know the argument is 100% correct."
You claiming I said something that I did not say is not making an "argument".
Greg: "He voted for TPP and TPA because a great number of us were wrong about what was best for America, and learned that during the Trump years. Same on immigration."
Drago: "Has DeSantis made those arguments or are you mindreading."
Greg: "https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/09/ron-desantis-bills-ban-chinese-citizens-buying-land-florida
DeSantis signs bills banning Chinese citizens from buying land in Florida"
Hmmmmm. DeSantis signed a bill in Florida as Gov that bans Chinese ownership of land in Florida......soooooooo that means what in regards to Congressman DeSantis support for TPP and FTA for Obama?
If a police officer asks me why I was speeding would it be relevant if I informed the officer that I always parallel park properly?
Drago
Hmmmmm. DeSantis signed a bill in Florida as Gov that bans Chinese ownership of land in Florida......soooooooo that means what in regards to Congressman DeSantis support for TPP and FTA for Obama?
I'm curious, Drago. Have you changed any of your views about anything in the last 10 years?
Or were you just so divinely perfect in 2013 that you already knew everything, and understood everything, that there's been nothing for you to learn since then?
Someone who defines China as enough of an irredeemable enemy of the US so as to ban all "connected" CCP members from buying land in their State is not someone who wants to engage in "free trade" with China.
There is a delusion very common among leftists. A lot of Trump's strongest supporters seem to suffer from it too. This is the delusion that considers words as or more important than actions.
When I can see a politicians actions, and their results, I don't waste my time listening to his words. Because I'm not a moron, and I know that talk is cheap, actions aren't.
The thing I find near pathologically stupid about your position is that you demand we treat DeSantis's actions as governor as if they were the mere words of a campaigner.
Is DeSantis a globalist? No, he's not, because no globalist would support that law that DeSantis supported and then signed.
"But globalists give him money!?!?!" So what?
DeSantis is not responsible for the views of the people who give him money. he is responsible for his actions, and his words.
When you have a candidate who does not have governing actions you can judge, then looking at who supports the candidate gives you some way to judge the candidate.
When you have a candidate with actions you can judge, and you spend all your time attacking some of the people giving him money, and things he did 10 years ago, rather than what he's been doing in the last 5 years, what you establish is that either you're a person of bad faith, or a complete and total moron.
The worst thing I know of that DeSantis did as governor of Florida was that he briefly agreed with Trump, and locked down the State.
While Trump unhappily remained wedded to Fauci and Brix, DeSantis quickly pulled his head out of his ass, and ended the lockdowns.
What else has DeSantis done as Chief Executive of Florida that is bad? Because he's not running for Congress next year, he's running for President. Which is to say he's running for Chief Executive of the United States.
Drago said...
Greg: "Not so. your justification was that Trump couldn't do things because the GOPe would attack him if he did
That's being a coward"
If you say so.
Yes, I do say so. And you agree it's pure cowardice, which is why your'e not trying to argue the case
Greg: "Dodging the argument is the same thing as stating you know the argument is 100% correct."
You claiming I said something that I did not say is not making an "argument".
Yes, it is. I'm saying that the behavior you desire is cowardice. By refusing to even try to justify the behavior, and by failing to give a more positive description of his behavior, you're demonstrating your own cowardice as you run away from the argument.
I understand that you continue to be a Trump supporter. What I don't understand is why you would cling to someone who, as more and more comes out about his term in office, was a pathetic failure.
1: He wouldn't fight to clean up the FBI, CIA, or NSA
2: He wouldn't fight to clean up the US Military, even after West Point produced an out and proud Communist as a graduate
3: He completely, utterly, totally failed on covid. he's was Fauci's bitch, and fired Scott Atlas, the person who actually had the right proposals. yo know, the one that YOU claim to agree with
4: He sat on his ass while the Democrats rigged the 2020 elections, rather than having his campaign team (which most certainly had Standing to sue) suing every time the Democrats tried to illegally change the rules
5: You bitch, while, and moan about the people funding DeSantis, while ignoring that Jared and Ivanka, Trumps kids and big advisors, are far to the left of all the GOPe people you're whining about
And when I point any of this out, you run away like a coward, or throw up meaningless distractions, rather than actually addressing the issues.
Which says that even you know I'm right, your'e just too dishonest to admit it.
So, what is it that draws you to that failure who ran away from all the important battles? you know, like issuing that EO to "end birthright citizenship"
Greg: "But having done so multiple times already, and having had you completely ignore my points (not "respond to", but "completely ignore because you have no response"), I'm not wasting any more time on that claim until you actually back it up"
You've vomited up quite a bit to avoid providing the links to DeSantis telling us why he voted the way he did as a congressman. You've "helpfully" provided your stellar mindreading skills-interpretations in lieu of such links....but we all know that won't cut it, don't we?
At this point, I'm going to assume you cannot provide such links because DeSantis has not offered an explanation for any of his Paul Ryan-like votes as a congressman.
True?
Here's an exit question for Greg that doesn't require mindreading skills (and goodness knows Greg has had to rely on those quite a bit lately and could probably use a rest!):
If everything you (Greg) write is correct, why isn't DeSantis light years ahead of Trump in polls of Florida republican voters alone?
If DeSantis is not light years ahead of Trump amongst Florida republican primary voters at this stage of the game, the question is......why isn't he?
Drago said...
Here's an exit question for Greg that doesn't require mindreading skills (and goodness knows Greg has had to rely on those quite a bit lately and could probably use a rest!):
If everything you (Greg) write is correct, why isn't DeSantis light years ahead of Trump in polls of Florida republican voters alone?
Gee, Drago, I guess that means that Biden won the 2020 election with 81 million votes. After all, he was ahead in the polls in 2020, right?
And we all know polls can't be manipulated, are that June polls 17 months before the election tell us exactly how things are going to come out!
Are you really that stupid?
Or are you just so dishonest that the thought of actually having to discuss the issues makes your brain freeze?
Drago said...
You've vomited up quite a bit to avoid providing the links to DeSantis telling us why he voted the way he did as a congressman. You've "helpfully" provided your stellar mindreading skills-interpretations in lieu of such links....but we all know that won't cut it, don't we?
I'm going to use small words, on the assumption that you're just a moron, not a bad faith scum bag:
I supported every single one of those actions DeSantis took while he was in Congress that your'e bitching about
I supported TPA, TPP. I still support raising the retirement age on SS / Medicare, and I have always strongly favored "privatizing" SS. Those last three positions, IMAO, are the positions of every single sane person, because SS and Medicare as they are currently run are Ponzi schemes that are getting ready to crash.
I no longer support TPA / TPP, I now completely oppose "free trade" with China, and pretty much support all of Trump's actions on trade as President.
I'm slightly older than DeSantis
I changed my positions because I learned during the Trump Admin that my previous positions were wrong. I credit DeSantis the ability to learn from experience, too.
Now, it could be that your problem is that you are not capable of learning from experience, so you dont' believe that anyone else is capable of that, either.
After all, we've spent the last three years learning that Trump is a chickenshit loser who let the Deep State beat him on just about every front, and the best you can come up with is that the mean GOPe kept him from fighting the Deep State, so it's not his fault.
You also appear inordinately proud of Trump's ability to fight internet random.. Why that's impressive to you, when he let Wray, Fauci, Brix, and Miller run roughshod over him, I don't know. Maybe because it's all you do with your life, so seeing Trump do the small makes you feel close.
Here's the reality check:
Trump let his left wing advisors Ivanka and Jared fuck up a lot of places where he should have fought. He's never going to break free of those advisors, because they're family
DeSantis did NOT let any left wing / GOPe advisors / donors / whatevers stop him from opening up Florida, from fighting the Biden Admin, the Cruise lines, and all other big business about vaccine passports, from firing people who tried to use his Administration to push a left wing political agenda
Unlike Trump, DeSantis has already demonstrated he won't "tack to the middle" to "win re-election", because he just massively won re-election by tacking to the Right.
So "free trade" with China is not coming back under a DeSantis Admin. you know, the Country he's signing laws to keep them from buying property in Florida.
Only an utter moron looks for what politicians SAY, when instead he can look at what politicians DO
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