"... and understanding why people were so impressed by those records.
That is simply *not possible* for the Grateful Dead.
I can present a case for them as musicians.... I can explain the appeal as best I understand it.... But what I can’t do is present their recordings the way they were received in the sixties and explain why they were popular.
Because every other act I have covered or will cover in this podcast has been a *recording* act, and their success was based on records. They may also have been exceptional live performers, but James Brown or Ike and Tina Turner are remembered for great *records*.... That is not the case for the Grateful Dead, and what is worse *they explicitly said, publicly, on multiple occasions* that it is not possible for me to understand their art, and thus that it is not possible for me to explain it.... [T]hey always said, consistently, over a thirty year period, that their records didn’t capture what they did, and that the only way — the *only* way, they were very clear about this — that one could actually understand and appreciate their music, was to see them live, and furthermore to see them live while on psychedelic drugs."
Listen to the whole thing, but tell me, did you see The Grateful Dead live and while on psychedelic drugs? Having seen The Grateful Dead live and used psychedelic drugs but not at the same time is not enough.
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Yes I did.
I was transported to another time and place , only to return on outro of Going down the road felon bad
A very cool coworker of mine once went to a Dead concert over the weekend, and straggled in around noon on Monday looking worn out and happy. He brought me back a gift for my toddler son. It was a t-shirt printed with cartoon characters from Disney, Looney Tunes, Hanna-Barbera, and some Japanese anime, all together in a crowd, with the spirals of a tie-died galaxy of color radiating out from them. When I jokingly asked about copyright infringement, he chuckled and said, "Deadheads don't bother with rules like that. Other people can, if they want. Deadheads just do what pleases them."
I have often had occaision to recall those words of wisdom, and tried to apply them in my own life, when appropriate. My son wore the shirt for years and years.
As to listening to the music high on psychedelics, I will trust my freshman year druggie roomie, who explained that pot was nice, coke was really nice, and LSD changed your mind's address to a different country, state, county, city and street without ever telling you where that was. He went to see evangelical preachers live, on LSD. Same effect for him, I think, as a Dead concert would have been.
" the *only* way, they were very clear about this — that one could actually understand and appreciate their music, was to see them live, and furthermore to see them live while on psychedelic drugs." I've seen them, but not while high and in my case they were right. I didn't really get it and it's one of only a couple of shows that I left before it was over.
1. No, it's not possible for anyone who wasn't sentient and rooted in the zeitgeist to come away listening to Blue Suede the way anyone did in 1956 or Good Vibrations ten years later...or Stevie Wonder's As in 1976 or Sting's If You Love Somebody in 1986. It's a delusional suggestion, no matter how skilled the storyteller, if only because the storyteller has only the ability to convey, if he does his job well, more or less how it was for him listening to a particular piece of music in those years.
2. Yes, the Grateful Dead were best enjoyed (with the exception of one or two albums, including a live album) in person on acid. Something I did twice. The second time was why there wasn't a third time. After a mere two hours (short for them), they ended the concert on a seventh chord, and that no doubt intentional lack of resolution (were they mad at someone?) led to a bunch of agitated hippies stoned on acid fist fighting in the parking lot.
Thank you so much for mentioning this podcast long ago. This and the "Nothing is Real" podcast bring a lot of joy in a bleak and political podcast world.
No comment.
And particularly no comment about the Rosevelt Stadium (New Jersey) concert that was originally rained out and got rescheduled to the following Tuesday (Aug 6, 1974).
more important.. Did you see the dead, while NOT on drugs.. and was it Lame?
Nope. I had a neighbor in SF who always had an "extra ticket" and no takers for the experience
I'm reminded of a very funny subplot in an episode of Raising Hope, a TV show from 2010-2014. The parents of the single father/main character listened to him play his guitar and sing in their home several times, thought he was excellent, so they encouraged him to play publicly (IIRC, some talent show). He did, his parents in the audience, and he was awful. Could hardly play, couldn't carry a note, flat as hell. Then they remembered every time he played and sang at home, they were stoned.
About to listen to this one today. I love The Dead and have loved them for years. I don't know why. Just something in their sound that fits a certain mood from time to time. I listen to a lot of different music, but The Dead are among those that get a listen from me most often (along with Pat Metheny, Oscar Peterson, Radiohead, Caetano Veloso, Joe Jackson, Talking Heads, Mstislav Rostropovich, and various classical pieces. Note: No Bob Dylan).
BUT...I never took the time to see The Dead live, and while on psychedelics. I was around then. I did do some psychedelics. But apparently 'wasted' them on Weather Report or Santana. (although...I never felt it was wasted.) I'll be curious to read from your commenters who did see them live, while on acid or something else. I'm sure there will be some representation in this crowd.
I always felt like the Deadhead crowd was basically a lot of wasted people swaying their arms around while standing in place for 3-4 hours. And frankly, as much as I love The Dead, I never thought they were musically a very good jamming band. I was too familiar with live jazz, and some of those great musicians. You want great jams, it's in jazz. After that, seeing film of Dead jams seemed cringey to me- even back then.
I saw them at the Carousel in SF but we weren't high. Everyone else was though.
And hey, I like long solos and stuff but I just didn't think they were that good at playing or singing. Not like Cream or Hendrix.
And yesI liked Hendrix's voice channeling Dylan.
Obligatory old Grateful Dead joke (which is barely a joke.):
Q. What did the Deadhead say when he stopped taking drugs?
A. "This music sucks!"
I saw The Dead in 1988 at Laguna Seca Raceway in California when I was stationed at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey while in the Air Force studying intermediate Korean. Some friends who what gotten out of the AF knocked on my dorm room one day, said they had been traveling around the country following the Dead and could they stay in my room for a couple nights. They smelled atrocious but since this was the AF and we didn't really have rules (more like suggestions), I said sure. Next day I took them to Laguna Seca and was talked into dodging a fat security guard and hopping a fence to go see the show (peer pressure is a dangerous drug, kids! Be warned). During the donnybrook that ensued, I got separated from my degenerate friends and then spent about 3 hours wandering around looking at all the drugged up hippies (none for me, thanks, I'm in the AF) spinning in circles and staring at the sky while the Dead played. It was a culturally interesting afternoon from an anthropological point of view (two worlds colliding and all that). But I didn't really "get" it. My friends seemed to have a good time, however, and they continued on their way the next day.
"Take me on a trip upon your magic swirlin’ ship
My senses have been stripped, my hands can’t feel to grip"
Guess I'm a member of the club. Clearlight windowpane acid. Grateful Dead Live at The Fieldhouse, University of Iowa campus, Iowa City, Iowa, February 24, 1973. What a long strange trip that was! Man, I am getting old.
To truly enjoy the Dead you have to listen from the peak 1971-1974 years. Also, they made several good records, most notably Europe 72.
If you only listened post 1980 you heard a lot of shite.
Yes and yes.
August 6, 1974, just two days before Nixon resigned. Probably one hell of a good concert.
"did you see The Grateful Dead live and while on psychedelic drugs?"
I actually did. But that was a long time ago. I don't remember if their performance was markedly different than their albums.
The oral history of rock and roll is a fascinating but different subject from the endeavor this writer set out on. However since he has included a Dead song on his list he feels obligated to say why he can’t present their music with the context of being “recording artists.” That’s bullshit. The only way a current fan can enjoy the Dead is bootleg or official recordings that enjoy wide circulation. Think radio. Think CD. Those are the enduring artifacts that the writer should place in context of the History of Rock. Almost every live act I’ve seen has performed differently than the music they published and recorded. But the music available now to the reader and for the next hundred years will be the recordings, mostly the songs that made the Dead famous enough to make the list. Put it in context, Man. I’m working from the premise that the number of Dead fans is a way larger set than the fans who saw them live in the proper psychedelic frame of mind. Write for them, for posterity. Don’t choose to limit the Dead’s audience to their Deadheads. I know some very well. They were all insanely devoted to “doing” as many events as they could. The “live” audience was largely the same from show to show. It was basically the same audience over and over. What a stupid tiny set to concentrate on when you are allegedly writing HISTORY!
After reading through the first six comments before the (newly) traditional Althouse mid-morning caesura I suggest my comment above be read as an extension and amplification of her first point. Either context is impossible to convey or you can also do the Grateful Dead using available recordings. No song ever sounds new and wonderful like the first time you really hear it and feel it but the best recordings at least evoke that moment for the listener and that is the history of rock and roll.
I though they had a few good records, especially Truckin.
I never was into them enough to find out where they were and go see them. I say that because I never recall them doing a live show anywhere near where I was living at the time.
And I never had a desire to drop acid, so there's that.
Ha, and there's nothing worse than stoned hippies in a parking lot fist fight. You could see that at any White Sox game back in the 70's.
James Brown is remembered for being an amazing live performer most of all.
That, and being a phenomenal NFL rusher and college lacrosse player...
I did...with the required “added feature”. A bunch of times in college and up until Jerry died. It’s was awesome. They were awesome.
There were moments when their jams would get going like all the parts of an engine working together to produce energy and motion. And when they started clicking, and found that spontaneous sound and rhythm, it felt like you were caught up in its wind. The center of the psychedelic sound was Jerry’s guitar paying and extended solos. Felt like you were dancing with both feet off the ground.
The records are nothing like seeing them live. Especially Jerry Garcia’s guitar.
I've seen the Dead (and members' bands, like Lesh) more than ten times live, in various states of sobriety and intoxication.
Their main appeal to the LSD users is in their long, meandering jams, which enhance the tripping experience, and which in turn are enhanced BY the tripping experience. And the overall vibe of the crowd. Very familial.
They were, and are, very accomplished musicians.
And they had several very good studio recordings. I recommend Workingman's Dead, American Beauty, Mars Hotel, and Blues for Allah for a taste of their studio prowess.
Amazingly, their only top 40 hit was the mediocre late-career "Touch of Grey."
My ex and I had the DJ play the “Live Without a Net” album at our wedding during dinner. Not loud. Softly in the background. It’s a great, soothing live album. It went over well. Even with guests who had no clue about The Dead.
I did like "Hell in a Handbasket" tho
And now having failed to put my first comment in context because I left the name Cassandra out of my second comment referring to her point number one I add this. Thus illustrating the danger of trying to criticize writing. By writing poorly. Sigh. Have a nice Saturday!
I don't know about the "art" of the Grateful Dead, but as lyrics go, "You're my woman now, make yourself easy, make yourself easy," was pretty good.
Poynette Wisconsin, April 1970, I snuck into the York Farm Festival and under the influence of cheap beer, two days of frantic dancing with erotic hippie chicks and sunshine of the solar and Orange variety I managed to nap/pass out through most of the Dead's second set. I only missed two or three hours of cosmic one way elevator music.
'more important.. Did you see the dead, while NOT on drugs.. and was it Lame?'
I saw them in the mid-'80s at the Oakland Coliseum (indoor arena) and did not take any drugs other than a few beers.
But after being inside for a while, you are on other people's drugs.
According to 'Rolling Stone,' Jerry Garcia was a very accomplished guitar player...number 46 all-time.
Actually. I’m sitting out here in the passenger’s seat right now, waiting for you to finish putting up your current blog post while I listen to Jerry and the boys bend out Brokedown Palace, on my hands and my knees, tripping my balls off.
I never understood the fuss over the Grateful dead. Now I know why. I was listening to them on a recording. I needed to go to their live concerts and take drugs or pot.
Then I would understand. And dig them.
LOL!
The Dead's appeal has always eluded me. When I was 15 and working as a weekend dishwasher in a restaurant (my first job), a fellow dishwasher told me how great the Dead were because of their "complex" music, in contrast to the "simplistic" two- or three-chord pabulum offered by other popular rock groups. (I couldn't argue back or agree, as I had not then heard the Dead.) However, I've come to see that in art, quality is not defined or indicated by how "complex" or "simple" it is, but how well the elements have been used to make a finished piece (whether music, literature, or visual art).
When I have heard the Dead later on, they always sounded like amorphous filigree, a fog of notes played without any noticeable forward momentum, dynamics, or melodic shape. They always sound "weedy." Plus, they can't sing.
Having taken psychedelics several times, I can understand why they Dead might seem "magical" to listeners on acid or magic mushrooms, etc., but only under those circumstances. (My preferred listening when on psychedelics was the Butthole Surfers.)
I was in sf for jan&feb of 67 there were free impromptu concerts in the park. I saw the dead and other unknown at the time bands.
I also saw Blue Cheer and Jefferson airplane perform at the Print Mint on haight Street. I sold the Berkeley Barb for a few nickles to rub together.
Luckily, looking back, my number came up and I joined the navy to dodge the draft. I don't regret the time but I would not have made it to the 70s without the navy.
John Henry
The Dead peaked in 1968-70. They had a couple of good years after that, but it all went downhill when Pigpen died and Donna and Keith Godchaux joined the band. Reportedly, it was Donna who introduced Garcia to heroin, which explains why so much of their music from that era was so meandering and dull. That and the fact that Pigpen was no longer with the band. He was in many ways its heart and soul, and Garcia was the brain.
I missed out on the GD and the LSD, by choice.
Some of my friends swore by them, and a few were actual Deadheads for a time as far as I knew, but they were not a popular choice for music at even the most drug-indulgent parties.
Anyway, any art that can only be properly appreciated with the aid of drugs is a sorry sort of art IMHO. That makes the LSD a kind of crutch, don't it?
I missed out on the GD and the LSD, by choice.
Some of my friends swore by them, and a few were actual Deadheads for a time as far as I knew, but they were not a popular choice for music at even the most drug-indulgent parties.
Anyway, any art that can only be properly appreciated with the aid of drugs is a sorry sort of art IMHO. That makes the LSD a kind of crutch, don't it?
Forgive the double post. I blame the drugs.
The problem with the Grateful Dead live is there are only so many variations of going plink plink plink.
I am Laslo.
Was the Designated Driver the day went to the Dead show in Philly. Might have been the only concert I saw stone cold sober. Still a great show.
"Forgive the double post. I blame the drugs."
Given that the comments are moderates, why are there double posts in the first place?
Jerry Jeff Walker's forte was entertaining drunks.
The Grateful Dead's was entertaining stoners.
Both entities were really good at what they were doing.
Could it be a kind of difference, let's say, between a meeting at the office and a zoom meeting?
At a concert you are immersed. Listening to a record is more akin to watching a movie on the phone. Unless you are an audiophile and have a small fortune in equipment.
I'm not aware that the Grateful Dead get much cover play from bar bands. I'd guess almost nothing.
Their lengthy on-stage jams were annoying, and poorly structured.
Saw the GD once in the stadium at Orchard Park. I have never done psychedelics so I guess I didn't get the best effect of their music. But I was with people who were doing psychedelics and who were enjoying the hell out of the concert, including a couple of dedicated DeadHeads. The social, sonic, and physical environment seemed to meld for them in a very pleasant way. Still, the drum solo was when everyone tried to hit the Porta-Potties.
Sugar Magnolia blossom's blooming
Head's all empty and I don't care
Saw my baby down by the river
Knew she'd have to come up soon for air
Sorry, that song strikes me as mighty fine.
I saw the Dead at UC Santa Barbara in 1972 while on LSD. It was a cloudy day. Maria Muldaur opened for them. Within five minutes after the Dead started playing, the clouds vanished and we were bathed in glorious sunlight for the rest of the day. I'm reasonably certain this actually happened.
"Given that the comments are moderates, why are there double posts in the first place?"
I'm really fast.
Actually, it's probably easier for the Prof to let them through, and I'm all for that. OTOH it may suggest that she lets her guard down from time to time, to see if the ones who left angry and muttering vengeance have given up their assaults.
At the other extreme of rock, Ian Anderson claims that Tull never did drugs. Given that they were known at their peak as one of the tightest ensembles, playing highly structured music, that doesn't surprise me.
I saw Stills and Manassas, Tull, Bowie, Browne, Oregon, and Charlie Daniels in those days, (not to mention local and regional bands in some profusion), as drunk as was safe and as high as I could afford.
No regrettable experiences, and no glimpses, alas, into a Higher Consciousness.
People who liked the Dead were people who didn't like Rock n Roll. Just my opinion.
I used to laugh at the well-worn joke, Q: “what did one Grateful Dead concert goer say to his c
friend after the drugs wore off?”
A: “this music sucks!!!”
Then, after dismissing them except for a few songs for decades, I saw their Amazon prime documentary and started listening to more of their stuff. Excellent music and musicianship, even so many years later.
Love the comments.
Now i can pose as a Greatful Dead fan in the internet.
"Saw the Dead back in 70-73. big fan. Usually hIgh as a kite. Would start in Santa Barbara and then follow them up and down the Coast. High point was always Eugene. Stopped after '74 - they'd lost the magic. [insert bullshit reason why they "lost it"]
If you only saw them after 73, you didn't know what you were missing".
Don’t know about bar bands MadAsHell but when Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers played a two-week stand at Fillmore West (‘97) they did a killer cover of Friend of the Devil a few times. Petty’s estate just released a double album from those San Francisco concerts. If you drop acid and listen to the vinyl version really loud you can maybe see Jerry one more time.
I'm 68 years old, and I've never seen the Grateful Dead live, and I've never used psychedelic drugs.
I don't think I missed a thing.
But then, growing up in Texas, I was more into country & western music.
James Brown remembered for great "records?"
This can only be said by someone who has never seen James live.
1980 or so, at the Academy of Music in Philaldelphia. Oh. My. Best I've ever seen. Let's put it this way: He was able to follow Wilson Pickett. What a bill!
(Saw the Dead, six or so years earlier, at the Civic Center in Philly.)
Judging from that performance (and the recording on Europe 73), they were at the peak of their live performance powers. No, I was not tripping. Just weed.
AND, if you can, pick up Phil Lesh's autobiography. Interesting as hell, well-written.
"James Brown remembered for great 'records?'
"This can only be said by someone who has never seen James live."
The point is that James Brown is among those artists remembered for great records in addition to his live performances. With many artists it may only one or the other, (or, ahem, neither).
People who liked the Dead were people who didn't like Rock n Roll. Just my opinion
But they liked the drugs, baby. They liked the...
drugs.
As for Dead studio records, you can't beat American Beauty or Workingman's Dead.
Anyway, any art that can only be properly appreciated with the aid of drugs is a sorry sort of art IMHO. That makes the LSD a kind of crutch, don't it?
Stopped reading as of this comment because I wanted to respond.
1. I don't like the Dead and think they're "mid," as my 21yo says. So I suspect it's true for many (certainly it's true for me) that they can't be appreciated without drugs, because they're meh. (It must be Rolling Stone's resident Deadhead who got Jerry Garcia into the top guitarists' list, surely!)
2. But. You can also view their statement that psychedelic drugs are integral to appreciation of their music as actually meaning, "The acid is one of our instruments." Their art - such as it is - consists in those people playing those instruments and singing, plus psychedelics. It's just a genre or medium thing, like painting on a board versus a canvas or using accordion instead of piano.
An artist can try to control people's experience of the art (a pastorale is perceived by just about everyone who hears it as gentle, versus a march's being perceived by nearly everyone who hears it as energetic and, well, martial), or can try to create something that is somewhat-to-completely open to the perceiver's interpretation. Maybe the Dead were going for the latter.
Or, 3. Maybe they're just a product of a particular time and couldn't ever surmount it, so they instead try to tell listeners that they're listening wrong.
I'm not aware that the Grateful Dead get much cover play from bar bands. I'd guess almost nothing.
I sang with a bar band for a while that comprised four dedicated Deadheads, and even they only did one Dead song that I can recall.
"If I do my job well, you come away listening to “Blue Suede Shoes” the way people heard it in 1956 . . ."
Recording sound first converted on the amplification technologies of the 1960s can never be reproduced from wax records of that era using today's electronic devices. Most recordings from way back when have been enhanced using today's technologies which have already changed the scratchy imperfect sounds that we loved.
I’ve always loved the Dead, and I don’t really have a good excuse, at least in terms of the music itself. I’ve been married for almost 50 years, and our first date, in Madison, was a 1973 GD concert; slightly stoned on weed, and a few beers, nothing dramatic. Roughly 27 years later, our youngest son tracked down the bootleg recording of that concert, and presented it to us for our 25th anniversary. As a reward, I then took him and his friends to a GD concert, on the Touch of Grey tour, but we had to leave at intermission because the kids were getting visibly stoned on the surrounding smoke. Good times.
Heh. Not at the Dead, but I damned sure did at a Butthole Surfers show at the Metroplex in Atlanta. Things I have in common with Robert Cook.
Listen to the whole thing, but tell me, did you see The Grateful Dead live and while on psychedelic drugs?
Yes - and Jefferson Airplane (both Signe and Gracie as vocalists) and several other SF bands '65-68 - and the best records don't come close to capturing it.
Nobody tells me how I’m supposed to appreciate art.
Of all the modern musicians mentioned so far, if I could pick one to see live, it would be
James Brown.
By a mile.
Easy to hate the Dead. I did, and savored my hatred for years. My epiphany occurred when I was at a friend's and he was playing American Beauty. My kids were with me--3 and 5 at the time--and I'll be damned if they weren't doing that free form Grateful Dead dance. That's sort of what the Dead tap into. On an inspired live night, they really were magical. On a good, professional night, they were either very good or boring. No in between. On a bad night, no band was worse. It all depended on what Jerry took and how it affected him. The rest of the band was pretty much always on point, but Jerry could be frustratingly inconsistent. Sort of like Mike Bloomfield, and, like Bloomfield, it was drugs that caused his inconsistency. The key to the Dead is realizing that 1) they weren't especially blues based after Pigpen died and 2) they couldn't play Chuck Berry. Since those criteria pretty much define rock n roll, I don't think you can call them a rock n roll band. They really do stand on their own. Best jam band? The Allmans were inspired by them but left them in the dust. Phish is more consistent, possibly better songwriters, but they meander so much they make the Dead on a bad night sound focused. Quicksilver, for a brief moment early on had a similar jamming approach, but loads more energy. Alas, only lasted for an album or so.
Bad country music with interminably long guitar solos. I think there's a big difference between music designed to simulate a psychedelic experience, and music made while *on* a psychedelic experience. I much prefer the former to the Dead's dull noodling.
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