Said Judith Thuman, quoted in "Fluent in the Language of Style/For over three decades, Judith Thurman has captured the often ineffable pull of fashion and beauty like few others" by Rhonda Garelick (NYT).
Thurman takes a different position when talking about invisibility caused by a woman's overweight: "I think empowered women of whatever shape don’t want to be excluded, condescended to, ashamed. Or made invisible. Women accepted their invisibility passively or with despair or stoically or ironically, and now they don’t."
The difference in her position might not be about the difference between aging and weight as a cause of "invisibility." It may be the difference between her subjective experience of her own "invisibility" — which she chose to find a way to enjoy — and the "invisibility" she observes imposed on others — which they might not have the capacity to reframe in a positive light and might not benefit from embracing and loving.
She's compassionate about them and — actually, consistently — compassionate with herself.
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Althouse is determined to prove that the “stereotype” that women will bitch about anything is true.
This woman was born into wealth and a pampered existence, she’s had a lifetime civil service sinecure, and she can’t stop bitching about non-existent persecution.
Sexism is bullshit, Ann. Stop disgracing yourself. Dump this bullshit from your mind and life. Do everybody a favor and stop the spoiled brat bitching.
Even better than being left alone as an older person is that I can take out my hearing aides and any hub-bub around me eases away into a softness filtering out extraneous noises. It I can still hear but it's all softer. And wonderful.
speaking from personal experience...
Being ignored, and invisible is WONDERFUL... IF you Want to be ignored and invisible
Being ignored, and invisible is HELL... IF you DON'T Want to be ignored and invisible
“People didn’t strike up conversations with you. Or they try to flee. Maybe they think you’ll latch on to them and bore them. “
Yes, usually people are pretty perceptive. People are not obligated to entertain you. Read a book. If you create a good family you will not be invisible.
Who said what now?
Most men are used to being invisible.
To women it comes as a shock.
I wonder how many times people who lament being invisible have said "I would love to be a fly on the wall..."
Sadly, we're not really invisible tho. Thugs and whackos looking for an easy mark see us, and if we weren't strong enough to protect ourselves when we were young we sure as hell aren't now.
She wants people to be interested in her and what she thinks.
Standard human emotion.
The first step she needs to take is to be interesting. If she wants to be interesting to kids there are things she could do.
Not be fat is a big one.
Be interesting is #2. But that would require her to see into the world of other people and it looks like she has never really cared what anyone else but herself found interesting.
You don't get it shouting Thomas. The sweet little spinster lawyer lady retired recluse tapping away on her keyboard every morning is trolling for you limp dick weak sister beta males who are completely and totally verklemped by the female of the species.
Carol said...
Sadly, we're not really invisible tho. Thugs and whackos looking for an easy mark see us, and if we weren't strong enough to protect ourselves when we were young we sure as hell aren't now.
And con artists.
Their particular skill is to be able to find out what other people are interested in and build rapport.
Imagine the privilege of an old woman assuming she is entirely safe alone in a public space trying to "accept" her invisibility.
The assumption, of course, is that it is right and proper for a woman to be visible, and shame on the invisibilizers. And ignoring fat people--how dare they!
Does any man go around worrying about his "visibility" to strangers? When I'm open for a good shot in a pickup game, I want to be seen. Otherwise: WTF?
Being anonymous has many perks. In the 1990s Michael Jordan could not go out in public because he would be mobbed. That would suck.
this blog makes it easy to see the folks who live alone and have no relationships other than themselves no doubt live alone as no one would want to be around the misery all day and night unless a masochist. What a lonely existence the bitterness causes. Cheer up folks, you'll be dead soon and you just wasted energy and time! Whining people need other whining people it's a prerequisite for misery. Count your blessings not other shortcomings find a Higher Power to guide you for peace on earth. The nuns used to say back in late 40's early 50's Empty barrels make the most noise, as I cruise toward 80 years young and look back, seems like they may have had a point.
Claiming to be invisible in the middle of a fawning interview with the NYT is interesting.
First off, if I read this correctly she was in India. I would not walk up to a stranger eating in a foreign country because maybe we would speak different languages. That would be awkward.
Second, if she is overweight, I think that is more of a put off than age or sex. Is that wrong?
Third, a man walking up to s strange woman to start a conversation is frowned upon now. It can be misconstrued. Like holding a door open for a woman. I still hold a door open but if I were in a restaurant/bar I would never start a conversation with a woman alone.
Fourth, I am 70 years old, not overweight and have no problem connecting with younger people, as long as we have something in common. I have friends in the 30's, for example. We met playing sports and that has blossomed into general friendship.
Lastly, she needs to grow up.
has she tried going/getting nekkid in public ?
TB;DNR.
She has to find topics so she can get published. Here's another one. NYT the perfect venue for this brand of navel-gazing-for-narcissists.
it looks like she has never really cared what anyone else but herself found interesting
Thurman wrote Isak Dinesen: The Life of a Storyteller, the biography that won the National Book Award in 1983.I worked in a lowly position at the publishers, with little capacity to affect her fortunes. At the time she was the toast of NYC, she made sure to include an editorial assistant in the assorted celebrations and gave me the one pair of cashmere socks I ever owned for Christmas.
She was the most gracious writer I worked with.
I read the article. She doesn't really bitch about her life. It sounded like she was content with it. In any event, she had a pretty good ride. Anytime you can walk into Prada and buy a new dress to celebrate your 75th birthday, things are going pretty good...From her picture in the NYT, I can't determine if she was a looker when young. Beautiful women sometimes find the adjustment hard to make. Even the adjustment to middle age is difficult.
...Like her, I had a recent ailment that caused weight loss. I didn't celebrate reaching my ideal weight, but the weight loss in a perverse way has been a good thing. I now routinely eat desert. That's more fun than buying a dress at Prada.
Kevin at 7:45 has got it right. This is nothing new for the other half of the world.
A subset of experiences as a little old lady that no one notices in airports is being a little old lady that someone notices in that they select one as the representative of what was bad in females in their own past. That third grade teacher. That mean girl bully. That Karen. And that mother/grandmother - don't get me started. It's just a small group but it's out there. On the other hand, the single nicest group, the most sensitive, the most kind, is without a doubt black teen-agers. Whether they all have a grandmother at home or what it is, there's just no doubt that they are streets ahead of everyone else in simple niceness to someone who is old and out there on her own. And everyone else is really pretty good.
A subset of experiences as a little old lady that no one notices in airports is being a little old lady that someone notices in that they select one as the representative of what was bad in females in their own past. That third grade teacher. That mean girl bully. That Karen. And that mother/grandmother - don't get me started. It's just a small group but it's out there. On the other hand, the single nicest group, the most sensitive, the most kind, is without a doubt black teen-agers. Whether they all have a grandmother at home or what it is, there's just no doubt that they are streets ahead of everyone else in simple niceness to someone who is old and out there on her own. And everyone else is really pretty good.
Wow, being invisible gets you an interview where you can talk about being invisible?
George Harrison (Beatles) invisiblity story. George's favorite instrument was ukulele. He discovered that the premier place for the best uke players in the world was a surfing beach in southern California called San Onofre. There, the best uke and slack key guitarists would gather around a campfire(s) at night and play Hawaiian tunes and old Reinhardt tunes. Harrison would show up in a big floppy happy hat uke in hand to sit in. All the old surfers there pretended he wasn't famous and accepted him with no fuss as just another good ukulele player. He was granted a cloak of invisibility.
I always make sure I have cash showing out of my pockets.
“ Second, if she is overweight, I think that is more of a put off than age or sex. Is that wrong? ”
You read that wrong. She is quite thin. 99 pounds. She was talking about other people being fat and herself being old.
Thanks for that, Bonkti
“ the one pair of cashmere socks I ever owned for Christmas.”
I consider cashmere socks to be a wardrobe basic and buy 10 pairs at a time.
I need wool socks and I am sensitive about wool.
I buy them from Garnet Hill
Even her son and his friends leave her.
Maybe that's a clue that it's her, not everybody else : )
Thurman's book was largely the basis for Sydney Pollack's Oscar garnering Out of Africa with Streep and Redford.
I loved those black and gray argyles.
A Knockout Game contestant. The loser is an involuntary victim of a redistributive change scheme, at best, of forward-looking progressive prices in the medical/insurance sectors, or of planned parent/hood, at worst.
She lives in "a house too densely appointed to take in". Does AA approve of such clutter? Maybe it helped living and raising a child with a "favorite aunt" instead of a man.
Wildswan. Interesting observation. My mom and I were departing from different terminals of the same airport after an event. Her flight was delayed, then cancelled, and her phone was dying. She was having a meltdown. I happened to miss my own flight and another family member got word to me. I went off to help out and found her with a black female teen who had lenta her charger. I can't say my mom was calm, but thank goodness.
"I was in India with my son and some friends, about seven years ago. And I was often alone in the dining room, since my son and the others would go off. And there was a loneliness that was interesting to me. People didn’t strike up conversations with you. Or they try to flee. Maybe they think you’ll latch on to them and bore them. I think the old woman sitting alone at the restaurant or the cafe table is in some sort of strange bubble of her own. Invisibility is a form of freedom that I do cherish most of the time."
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if I understand correctly >>> "other people' joined her and sons and friends at table but left with sons etc. == so not friends of hers?
I need wool socks and I am sensitive about wool.
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are they worn for your morning trek or only at home?
I can't determine if she was a looker when young
At 35, a looker though not a stunner. But the more one looked, the more one liked. Pleasing features, unguarded and without pretense,and gently animated with intelligence. Nice curves.
Don't know if it is because I am a guy, but as I get older (70 now) I find more people willing to chat in random places. Maybe an old guy isn't threatening? Maybe I've gotten more interesting? Maybe it changes when you are scary old.
"are they worn for your morning trek or only at home?"
Yeah, I wear them all day, wear them with running shoes or hiking boots in the fall and winter (and early spring).
I have tried Smart Wool socks, which are fine, not itchy, but somewhat tight in the ankles in a way I don't like (leaves an imprint!). I like the soft fabric. I'm somebody who, when I'm shopping for clothes, touches the fabric, and if I don't like the feeling, I won't consider it. If it feels good, though, it gets attention.
I appreciate the ability to be invisible. I walk across campus, and none of the students give me a second glance. This is a nice thing.
And I agree 100% with the astute observation by Michel at 848 AM!
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