"... the region where it lies and three others in Ukraine were now part of Russia.
The battle for Lyman, a city in Donetsk Province with a pre-war population of 20,000, is particularly poorly timed for the Kremlin after it illegally declared its annexation of swaths of Ukraine and Kyiv’s stunning victories in the country’s northeast last month.... A senior Ukrainian military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that Lyman was 'already liberated.' 'A mop-up is ongoing,' the official said. 'The Russians have nowhere to run.'... Confirmation of the withdrawal staved off a potential worst-case scenario for the Kremlin in which Russian troops are trapped in the city."
The NYT reports.
Does "mop-up.... nowhere to run" conflict with the idea that the Russians are withdrew and are not trapped in the city?
ADDED: Here's how it looks at WaPo: "Ukrainian forces say they have surrounded thousands of Russian troops in the eastern city of Lyman, pressing their counterattacks in a region that Moscow now claims as its own. Ukrainian forces moved on the transport hub overnight even as the Kremlin hosted an elaborate ceremony and pop concert celebrating its annexation of Ukrainian territory."
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Clearly the walls are closing in. This whole thing should be wrapped up in about two weeks based on this announcement. I'm long funkopops.
Why are we sending billions of dollars to the most corrupt country in Europe? Meanwhile, our own country's economy is collapsing.
There was only one road the Russians could take to withdraw and Ukraine controls it with any number of platforms. So it should be a big surrender.
It depends on who is making the statement. The Russians would probably want people to think they got their side out, the Ukrainians want a bigger victory.
Following the war closely via several twitter accounts, and it appears that most, if not all, of the troops in Lyman withdrew.
"Nowhere to run" could either refer to nowhere safe within the immediate vicinity of Lyman, or it could refer to there being nowhere safe for the Russians anywhere in Ukraine/Crimea; i.e. they may have escaped Lyman, but it's just a matter of time.
There's a certain level of exaggeration which is counter-productive. You can't make its failure disappear in a cloud of euphemism and generalities.
It will be difficult to back off from this, from which I presume expert psy-ops people would have recommended against it.
Lyman, a fine old New England last name and first name. This one is probably pronounced differently.
Yuzovka, in the Donbas was named after John Hughes, a Welsh industrialist who built an ironworks there.
"Confirmation of the withdrawal staved off a potential worst-case scenario for the Kremlin in which Russian troops are trapped in the city."
The NYT reports.
Does "mop-up.... nowhere to run" conflict with the idea that the Russians are withdrew and are not trapped in the city?"
I guess hundreds of dead bodies on side of road as Russians tried to escape is not "worst-case scenario for the Kremlin". Ukrainians had pre-targeted artillery and mined roads out Lyman which along with SOF eliminated troops as they ran. Pictures on Twitter are available for confirmation if that is your thing.
Where are they going to withdraw to? The road out is interdicted and Ukrainian troops are on the outskirts of Kreminna. There goes the potential defensive line from Svatove to Kreminna. And that isn't to mention the forces coming down from the north.
Just so you know, many of those "Ukrainian forces" speak English". The hookers and grifters around brain-dead Biden are getting us into a shooting war with a nuclear power.
Everybody’s a strategist now. I don't remember this much attention to military cartography when our own troops were fighting.
Both sides are pushing their own propaganda. After a few weeks it should be obvious which side is lying less. I counsel patience.
Thru all of this Europe has proven it has no will to fight.
Ann: "...Does "mop-up.... nowhere to run" conflict with the idea that the Russians are withdrew and are not trapped in the city?"
I am not any kind of military expert but I don't see a contradiction. An objective like Lyman can be seen as a series of strong points with more combat power (men/weapons/fortifications/barriers) interspersed with less-defended/defensible terrain to form a somewhat-coherent "front" toward the enemy. Ideally the combat power is put into mutually reinforcing positions and thus gives the defender best "bang for buck." If part of the line collapses or withdraws, the line must re-form along a shorter front (or try to hold the longer front with fewer assets). It's just geometry. If the line breaks, all that's left are isolated pockets of resistance. And the people trapped in them, left behind as the main force "withdraws," are "mopped up."
Not our war.
Not mine at least.
But all the lefties seem to love them some Ukraine.
After reading some comments yesterday I was pretty sure we'd be dead by now.
Big relief.
My special, secret sources tell me that this is just another piece of Putin's brilliant strategic plan to appear inept and in over his head.
From The Institute for the Study of War:
"Ukrainian forces will likely capture or encircle Lyman within the next 72 hours. Russian forces continued to withdraw from positions around Lyman on September 30 as Ukrainian forces continued to envelop Russian troops in the area.[8]
The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) officials and Russian war correspondents stated that Russian forces still control Lyman but have withdrawn from their positions in Drobysheve (around 6km northwest of Lyman) and Yampil (about 13km southeast of Lyman).[9]
Russian sources claimed that Russian forces still control one road from Lyman to Torske, while Ukrainian forces have cut off the Drobysheve-Torske road in the Stavky area.[10] Russian sources also noted the increasing activity of Ukrainian reconnaissance and sabotage groups on the Svatove-Torske highway northeast of Lyman after reportedly crossing the Zherebets River.[11]
Geolocated footage also showed Ukrainian artillery striking withdrawing Russian forces near Torske.[12] Some Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces have crossed the Siverskyi Donets River in Dronivka and are now operating in the forests south of Kreminna.[13] Russian sources uniformly noted that Ukrainian artillery continues to interdict Russian forces’ single remaining egress route on the Kreminna-Torske road.[14]"
https://ukrainevolunteer297689472.wordpress.com/2022/09/30/its-a-slaughter/
“Illegally declared its annexation “? So glad it’s up to the NYT to decide that. Sort of like deciding that Ginni Thomas “falsely claims” something.
Are the editors too dumb to know that by taking sides the paper undercuts the credibility of it own reportage?
Or don’t they care?
Joe Smith said...
Not our war.
Not mine at least.
But all the lefties seem to love them some Ukraine.
10/1/22, 11:05 AM
Not a lefty by any means, not even close and I've despised Biden since the '80's. But I don't pick sides as part of a partisan fight. I have tons of respect for the Ukrainians fighting for their freedom and against genocide. Just too bad so many people oppose supporting Ukraine because they reflexively oppose anything that might put them on the same side as Biden.
18 year old Donetsk girl yesterday
I wonder what the Ukrainian forces will do to people like her after they retake territory.
@exhelodrvr1 Yeah, I saw that. Content warning: it isn't pretty:
I came away shaking like a leaf, not scared, just wired and sick of killing people. On the way back —— got in a stream and washed off, and vomited his guts out. I was looking at his eyes and he was seeing things way back home.
Michael K said...
Why are we sending billions of dollars to the most corrupt country in Europe? Meanwhile, our own country's economy is collapsing.
We're not sending money to Russia or Belerus, so we're not doing that.
Are you ignorant or just dishonest?
Bob Boyd said...
18 year old Donetsk girl yesterday
I wonder what the Ukrainian forces will do to people like her after they retake territory.
If she's so eager to be a Russian, then she should move to Russia.
I doubt they'll do any more to her than the French did to "German collaborators" after the allies moved in, let alone as much as Russian invaders did to thousands of Ukrainian women.
I guess I missed it when you shed tears over what happened to those Ukrainian women
Jupiter said...
Just so you know, many of those "Ukrainian forces" speak English". The hookers and grifters around brain-dead Biden are getting us into a shooting war with a nuclear power.
If it's your position that Russia should be allowed to assault and conquer anyone they want, because they're a nuclear power, then I guess you hold the same position for the ChiComs, who are also a nuclear power.
That aside, it's a position that could only be taken by a pathetic coward and or eager enabler of dictators
Althouse:
"...Does "mop-up.... nowhere to run" conflict with the idea that the Russians are withdrew and are not trapped in the city?"
If you withdraw 1/2 your troops, and the other 1/2 are trapped, then both can be true
Joe Smith said...
Not our war.
Not mine at least
Putin's an enemy of the US, and always has been.
Should we be sending troops to fight him in Ukraine? No
Should we be sending supplies to help the Ukrainians fight him, so that he does not become more powerful and better able to harm the US?
Well, I guess that depends on whether or not you love the US. I do, so my answer is "yes"
But all the lefties seem to love them some Ukraine
All the lefties eat, drink, and breathe. Does that mean you're going to stop doing those things?
It takes a special kind of moron to let the other side determine his positions. I'm happy that I'm not that kind of moron. I take my positions, and if the other side takes it to, I celebrate that the right thing is getting more support,
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Thru all of this Europe has proven it has no will to fight.
So Ukraine isn't part of "Europe"?
How about Poland? The Baltic States? Norway, Finland, Sweden?
The Ukrainian's have proved that they have the will to fight, and that if given reasonable military resources will use then effectively.
I'd say that's a pretty big plus
One of the odd things about this war is the small number of POWs compared to the territory gained and lost. It shows neither side is fighting to the last bullet (except for the Azov Battalion) but is retreating when threatened with encirclement.
But then, from what I've read, the Russians only have 200,000 men at the Front. This is equal to a front that was manned by a 1.5 million Axis Troops in 1943. Compraed to WW II the ratio of men to miles of front is incredibly low. You need infantry to hold ground, and the Russians simply don't have enough.
The same is true of the UFA. If the Russians commit enough TRAINED men, the Ukrainians will be buggering back where they came from.
As for the MSM war reports, we all know the score. If the Russians win or advance it doesn't matter. If the UFA wins or advances, its total victory and Putin is about to resign. You can't trust anything the NYT/Wapo write, but need to read alternative sources.
Fascinating. The soldier in exhelodriver's link and the girl in my link both talking about what their day was like in Donetsk yesterday.
Are the editors too dumb to know that by taking sides the paper undercuts the credibility of it own reportage
WHAT credibility???
'Just too bad so many people oppose supporting Ukraine because they reflexively oppose anything that might put them on the same side as Biden.'
Support Ukraine all you want.
I just object to the U.S. doing it with $50B of taxpayers' (yours and mine) money.
Send Zelensky a check or volunteer to fight.
Both are acceptable.
But last time I checked, we are in shit financial times...
rcocean,
The Russians don't have many more trained men, or much more workable equipment. They were very much a hollowed out force. Ukrainians are better trained and equipped. The big question is will they have enough to get Crimea back before they west runs out of supplies to give them.
"Are the editors too dumb to know that by taking sides the paper undercuts the credibility of it own reportage"
it's a godd*mn high school newspaper fer chrisakes!
rcocean said...
One of the odd things about this war is the small number of POWs compared to the territory gained and lost. It shows neither side is fighting to the last bullet (except for the Azov Battalion) but is retreating when threatened with encirclement.
Where are you getting your POW numbers from?
Why do you believe them?
The same is true of the UFA. If the Russians commit enough TRAINED men, the Ukrainians will be buggering back where they came from.
And if Rudolph lights up his red nose, Santa will travel safely.
Frankly, Rudolph is more likely.
The Russians don't have the trained men, and they don't have the logistics to support them if they ddid have the trained men, and if they had both, HIMARS means that unless those troops make a wildly successful push from a relatively new axis, the Ukrainians will be able to destroy the supply lines keeping those troops going.
But other than that, it's a total threat.
Note: I don't believe I've watched a single ABC / NBC / CBS / CNN/ MSNBC / PBS / Fox "news" broadcast since Biden became the official US President. I get my information from bloggers, either ones who I've know and trusted for years, or else from ones they recommend
Because I actually like having a clue as to what is going on
exhelodrvr1 said...
The big question is will they have enough to get Crimea back before they west runs out of supplies to give them.
It looks to me like the Russians have all of one bridge, plus anything they can get over water, to support their troops in Crimea.
And we've already seen Ukraine successfully blowing up Russia supplies in Crimea.
So if they can successfully kick Russia out of the rest of Ukraine, I dont' believe that the Russian Navy is good enough to keep Russia in Crimea
Especially during the winter
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