From "Redacted Mar-A-Lago Affidavit Confirms Biden’s DOJ Fished For A Crime To Pin On Trump" by Margot Cleveland (The Federalist).
August 29, 2022
"The public (understandably) may wish to sidestep the minutia of the mandates of the Presidential Records Act, but..."
"... three top-line takeaways prove imperative to understanding the scandal of the Mar-a-Lago search. First, the Presidential Records Act is not a criminal statute, and violations of that federal law do not constitute a crime. Second, the Presidential Records Act does not reach broad swathes of documents retained by a former president, including 'official records of an agency,' 'personal records,”' and convenience copies of presidential records. And third, the courts have refused to question a former president’s conclusion that a record constitutes a 'personal record' and not a 'presidential record.'"
From "Redacted Mar-A-Lago Affidavit Confirms Biden’s DOJ Fished For A Crime To Pin On Trump" by Margot Cleveland (The Federalist).
From "Redacted Mar-A-Lago Affidavit Confirms Biden’s DOJ Fished For A Crime To Pin On Trump" by Margot Cleveland (The Federalist).
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124 comments:
The D.C. establishment aka "Deep State" has been doubling down and trying to cover its tracks since 2016 and the Crossfire Hurricane program. They must hang together or they will hang separately. This is not left-versus-right wing, rather, it's a corrupt multi-generational establishment set in its ways with no accountability and high on its own power.
See Howard Kunstler's multiple fact summaries and analyses:
https://kunstler.com/
He's right on this topic, even if he frequently rehashes the same arguments.
They were "looking for evidence of obstruction" by attempting to create the crime with their banana republic tactics. Did they wear hobnail boots around Mar a Lago? I would not be suprised to see it.
Go ahead. Keep thinking that we're voting our way out of this.
The DOJ is just following orders from Jesus Christo:
He said to them, "Follow me,
and I will make you fishers of men."
— Matthew 4:19 ESV
Well that is some bullshit. First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.
Secondly, every document Trump touches is not a "Presidential Record". He might be able to have wide latitude on what constitutes his personal records (although it is really stretching it if he tries to claim his official correspondence on Presidential letterhead is personal), but by no stretch of the imagination (well maybe Trump and his defenders can stretch their imagination that far since they already believe he can declassify documents without telling any one or documenting the declassification) can he claim work product of the CIA or DoD are his "personal" documents.
It has been, what- two weeks now since the raid? Not a single leak about what was actually recovered in the raid. That tells me that they found nothing useful. If Trump had committed a serious violation, it would have been on the front page of the NYTimes by this point in time given the pushback from more than just people on the right. The people responsible would be tripping over themselves to publically justify the raid if they had the goods with which to do so.
This tells me this was either a complete fishing expedition, or the documents they wanted to recover did the Deep State more harm than Trump.
Can’t say I’m surprised. I expected nothing less from Garland’s DOJ. Thank God he’s not on the SCOTUS.
This shit should infuriate every American. But I’m sure there will be people (even in the Althouse comments section) who will not only support it but spin like crazy for it because Orange Man Bad or reasons.
Truth is people just want what they want when they want it. They don’t care about fairness or justice or evenhandedness when they’re in power, but they scream those things (along with racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia) if ever they are the target.
Get that MAGA MFer!!!!
Wow.
Ann finally reached outside the Regime propaganda and posted something approaching honest.
Trump did not steal classified documents. All he had to do was say "I declassify these documents."
The DOJ and FBI went to a Magistrate Judge who does not have the legal authority to issue a federal warrant and filed an affidavit that has no connection to any federal law.
This was banana republic bullshit.
If Garland takes the fall for this I will laugh my ass off because he probably had no knowledge of this raid or the planning for it.
And Biden will not finish his term. This action will be the backstop. If he does not die or resign first he will be impeached for his role in using the FBI to persecute his political opponent illegally.
Didn’t Pelosi call the pentagon top military man to ask him about possibly invoking the constitutional amendment to remove Trump because it was thought that he was mentally unstable or something? And at the same time he was in possession of the country’s most sensitive information?
Something doesn’t add up about the raid story. The more we recollect the events prior to Biden’s inauguration… strike that… coronation.
Fair to point out that to get a search warrant signed by a judge there has to be an alleged crime. But that does not mean the FBI made up a crime to get a search warrant to get back sensitive documents.
not a criminal statute,
does not reach broad swathes of documents retained by a former president,
courts have refused to question a former president’s conclusion that a record constitutes a 'personal record'
pretty pretty open and shut! Trump's GUILTY! Send him to JAIL!
right Igna? Gladfly? Anyone?
The redactions were so extensive that I'm dubious of anybody saying the affidavits prove anything other than that the FBI doesn't want us seeing the affidavits.
"The public (understandably) may wish to sidestep the minutia of the mandates of the Presidential Records Act, but..."
"... three top-line takeaways prove imperative to understanding the scandal of the Mar-a-Lago search.
Even this NeverTrumper is smart enough to understand the truth.
You can scoff and smirk all you want at Trump and his supporters and call Trump sloppy.
But Trump is not sloppy legally.
He is quite clearly the least legally sloppy person in the history of the world. The DOJ and FBI are repeatedly breaking the law to find a crime to charge him with.
And they still can't do it.
The affadavit states that DOJ didn't get involved until *after* NARA got boxes back from Trump that had docs with classification markings mixed loosely with other documents.
Like, you're allowed to read the affidavit for yourself before accepting whatever conclusion your team's reporting takes.
Its an excellent analysis. And you have to wonder why any Judge (who believed in the rule of law) would sign off a search warrant so broad, he allowed the American Gestapo to take ANY document/item created during the 4 years of Trump's presidency.
If the lies and deceit of the Hillary inspired "Trump-Russian" investigation or the two fake Impeachment sham trials didn't persuade you, perhaps this unheard of gestapo raid on an Ex-Presidnet might. The liberal MSM, the Democrat party, want to win by any means neccessary. They simply do not care about anything except gaining and keeping power.
The aren't "ashamed" they are not "Confused" or "Stupid" or "Dumb". Calling them hypocrites or pointing to them and going "Wow, just wow" won't stop them.
And the DC republicans are in on it. Remember that 20 R Senators voted for Garland as AG. They knew what they were getting. Certainly Mitt Romney and Lindsey Graham knew. And we haven't heard a peep from Good' Mitch McConnell on this, have we?
Anyway, where will this all end? I predict, either Trump is put on trial, possibly in jail. Or Trump declaring he won't run in 2024.
MSM(D) will never report that fact. never.
EVITA: "Juan, you must do everything possible to stop that horrible Trump thing from becoming President.
JUAN: "Si, mi amor."
I think that the Presidential Records Act is a minor issue.
The major issue is The Espionage Act, which is summarized by LawFareBlog as follows (emphasis added):
-----
The part of the Espionage Act that is likely most relevant in this case is § 793(d). It applies to individuals who lawfully accessed material “relating to the national defense,” and who proceeded either willfully to convey it to “any person not entitled to receive it,” or willfully to “retain[] the same and fail[] to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it.”
-----
I think there were specific documents that the FBI demanded in recent months but that Trump refused to deliver.
I think further that those documents were about the FBI's various investigations of Trump on suspicions that he was colluding with the Russian Government or Russian organized crime. The most recent such documents would be the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation, which began in July 2016. There were also previous such investigations, beginning in the 1980s.
Blogger Readering said...
Fair to point out that to get a search warrant signed by a judge there has to be an alleged crime. But that does not mean the FBI made up a crime to get a search warrant to get back sensitive documents.
If you accept that the FBI is acting in good faith, after all this time and evidence, I guess you could think that. Inga and Freder have no problem believing anything.
The whole idea that an ex-President of the USA, after spending 4 years having access to every classified document, and with his finger on the nuclear button, would be a "Security risk" and criminal under the espinoge act is absurd.
I enjoyed the legal analysis, but people need to step back. First Trump doesn't have original classified documents. He has copies. The Government still has control over the originals.
Second, he had a document he shouldn't have stored at Margo Lago there's ZERO reason why the DOJ couldn't have told him that. At the utmost, the DOJ could've subpoenoned the documents.
Third, as noted in the article, violating the POTUS records act is NOT a crime. The Biden DOJ, deliberatly twisted the law into pretzel in order to justify a raid on TRump.
Does Trump have a lawsuit? Seems he's been the subject to an illegal search under the 4th admendment. Is the FBI immune from being sued? Or Garland?
Well, duh.
Process as punishment. Keep the churn going. Feed the populace with lurid tales of Trumpian dastardy to distract from the entrenchments being built to protect the Imperial Swamp from what the DCritters fear is coming.
I thought for a few years (16-18 or so) that surely--surely--there would be someone inside the Organs who would come forward and say, "Yes! There were bad apples among us who went rogue, and they will be punished to the full extent of the law."
But nothing remotely like that happened, quite the opposite in fact. They don't even hide their contempt for outsiders (us, the 99.9999%) anymore.
for people that can read (that is; NOT readering)
In United States v. Mouat (1888), Justice Samuel Miller interpreted a statute that used the phrase "officers of the United States." He wrote, "[u]nless a person in the service of the government, therefore, holds his place by virtue of an appointment by the president, or of one of the courts of justice or heads of departments authorized by law to make such an appointment, he is not strictly speaking, an officer of the United States.
"During the 1876 impeachment trial of William Belknap, Senator Newton Booth from California observed, "the President is not an officer of the United States." Instead, Booth argued, the President is "part of the Government."
And David McKnight's 1878 treatise on the American electoral system reached a similar conclusion. McKnight wrote that "[i]t is obvious that . . . the President is not regarded as 'an officer of, or under, the United States,' but as one branch of 'the Government.'"
for readering (i'm using small words, to make it easier on you)...
What about O'Bama? What about his classified documents sitting in Chicago? Are THOSE a crime?
‘…but by no stretch of the imagination (well maybe Trump and his defenders can stretch their imagination that far since they already believe he can declassify documents without telling any one or documenting the declassification) can he claim work product of the CIA or DoD are his "personal" documents.’
If the above statement is correct then you should be delighted!! But it’s not, as has been repeatedly explained, and that’s why you’re in a heightened state of anxiety. Cope harder, sweetie.
‘The affadavit states that DOJ didn't get involved until *after* NARA got boxes back from Trump that had docs with classification markings mixed loosely with other documents.’
The old ‘classification markings’ canard! When documents are declassified or their level of classification lowered, the original markings remain. But, apparently, you’re more worried about your team’s takes.
I sure hope Trump gets convicted just to see you people making more hilarious lame excuses for not following through on your empty threats of violent insurrection and Going Galt.
To the Moon, Alice
Achilles: "And Biden will not finish his term."
So Kamala will. The only difference then is Pelosi won't have to wear make-up to the Oval Office.
Correction of the link in my own comment at 10:31 AM:
The major issue is The Espionage Act, which is summarized by LawFareBlog as follows
Let’s hope the District Court Judge puts an end to this charade by ordering all docs returned, the Magistrate judge sanctioned or fired, and the DOJ et al given a restraining order to stay away from Trump… lol….
You just have to feel sad. What have we come to, how can we get back to a better feeling about our government.
Freder Frederson said...
... can he claim work product of the CIA or DoD are his "personal" document
Ms Cleveland explains this though it does take a bit of close reading to understand her point. Government agency records, aka work product, are specifically *excluded* from the PRA because the relevant TLA already has separate records retention requirements that go beyond the PRA. Unless you want to make the unfounded assumption that Trump has the *only copy* of some agency document, in which case the relevant TLA is violating their requirement to retain their own records, the copy of a document provided to Trump becomes his to dispose of as either a personal or Presidential record.
And of course the DoJ didn't get involved until after NARA didn't get back everything because the Archivist can stamp his feet all he wants but he has no statutory authority to demand that Trump give everything back. The FBI can put together some 'case' to 'investigate' and claim they need to seize it as 'evidence'.
Lets have some fun with this post.
Here is Amy Berman Jackson's ruling in the Clinton Sock drawer case.
The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s
claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as
“Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right,2
duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty, to do, the case must be dismissed.
Another fun excerpt from the court decision:
5 As another court in this district has observed, “[t]he PRA incorporates an assumption
made by Congress (in 1978) that subsequent Presidents and Vice Presidents would comply with
the Act in good faith, and therefore Congress limited the scope of judicial review and provided
little oversight authority for the President and Vice President’s document preservation
decisions.”
Freder Frederson said...Well that is some bullshit. First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.
Secondly, every document Trump touches is not a "Presidential Record".
Neither of those things is up to you to decide. Like it or not, you have to go with what the laws and the courts say even when it contradicts what you want to believe.
“Well that is some bullshit. First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.”
Because “Officer” is essentially a term of art in the Constitution. Trump was the President, who nominated Principal Officers, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and appointed Inferior Officers. US Constitution Article II § 2 ¶ 2. Pretty clear cut, if you know what you are looking for. Congress, the President, and the VP are not Officers of the US, but rather fill Constitutionally defined roles. They aren’t nominated or appointed to office, but rather are elected (now - originally the Senate was appointed by state legislatures). Congress, through legislation, determines, with some limitations, which positions are held by Principal Officers, thus needing Senate Confirmation, and which are Inferior Officers, which don’t. Plenty of court cases making this clear.
What’s funny/interesting here is that there are two agencies or departments involved in the MAL search warrant: DOJ and FBI. The FBI has a single Principal Officer: Director Wray. The FBI Deputy Director, on down, are Inferior Officers. That’s how disgraced and fired DD Andrew McCabe was able to slime his way up to the #2 position there. The DOJ is at the other extreme, with better than a hundred Principal Officers: the AG, DAG, AAGs, and all of the US Attorneys.
Freder Frederson said...
Well that is some bullshit. First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.
He is not an officer.
He is a Branch of the Government. The Executive Branch.
There is a reason why stupid fascist shitheads like Freder keep trying to change history.
gilbar: "for people that can read (that is; NOT readering)"
Better include the blithering idiot Field Marshall Freder in that "NOT" as well.
The best part of this is that the PRA only empowers NARA to make records available to the public.
The only reason NARA could demand these records would be to make them public.
They were seized because the Regime wants to keep them secret.
Beasts of England said...
‘The affadavit states that DOJ didn't get involved until *after* NARA got boxes back from Trump that had docs with classification markings mixed loosely with other documents.’
The old ‘classification markings’ canard!
Most of the left seems to think they live in Harry Potter world, where the documents know they've been declassified and magically remove their classification markings.
Obama left the WH with 30 million pages of docs which now reside in Chicago, with a post move promise to NARA that eventually they will be digital and made available.
meanwhile...
It's been 3 weeks since the raid, which is truly unprecedented. Trump THREATENED that sort of thing against Hillary, for example, on the basis of what was a very public and very wrong way of handling her communications - and then he didn't follow through on it. Biden's Admin is doing it.
But here the thing - if you are going to do this, there's only two ways to do it properly:
1. Do it properly in complete secret. No leaks. Maybe a single press conference led by the Attorney General after the raid, led by facts and timelines.
(Side note: We now know the AG said there were "urgency and exigency" requiring immediate warrant approval....then waiting 3 days to execute it....now 3 weeks later no further actions known to be taken....so clearly he was lying and NOT representing facts. The seniormost admin person who has spoken about raiding a former president has now been shown to be....misleading.)
2. Or do it very publicly with a press conference the same day as the raid, followed by regular disclosures with the attorney general and FBI Director on stage sharing explicit details. (Yes, I know the problems with this approach, but compare it to the current reality)
.......
In the absence of doing it right or even working very hard to do it right, we can infer this isn't about achieving justice. It's about something else entirely. And considering the stuff that's been leaked, the wild accusations published on major leading newspaper only to be discarded and moved on to the newest latest wild accusations, we can conclude the outcome DOJ leaders are driving towards.
Freder once again shows his utter ignorance on matters that are easily searched in the online world.
The President is not an officer of the US government- a President is the Constitutional Executive Branch- full stop. A President's appointees are officers of the federal government.
The DoJ thugs just admitted to taking attorney-client docs from Mar-a-Lago. Trump wins again.
Wray and Garland couldn't have done much more to galvanize the semi-fascists (against the 100% fascists apparently). The next twelve months are going to be hell on earth for this country.
Word on the street is that Trump has some books from the Library of Congress that are WAY overdue.
Meanwhile, Joe Bidens open borders have let in over 4.9 illegal aliens in 18 months....roughly the population of Ireland. Ready to give up your paycheck to support all our new citizens who will vote for Democrats and help our Banana Republic go to hell in a handbasket/? https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/stunning-4-9-million-illegal-aliens-crossed-open-border-us-first-18-months-biden-regime-roughly-population-ireland-video/
What I mostly notice is that all the headlines from the first few days after the "raid" -- regarding nuclear missile launch codes -- has completely vanished.
I don't mean retracted, obviously. I mean memory-holed.
I don't mean Buzzfeed, MS-NBC, and DailyKos. I mean venerable media institutions like "The Atlantic"
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/
"News" intended to incite panic, apparently.
"Redacted Mar-A-Lago Affidavit Confirms Biden’s DOJ Fished For A Crime To Pin On Trump" by Margot Cleveland (The Federalist).
Do ya think the NYTs and WaPo will confirm this too?
“ First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.”
Back before the FBI let her slip off the hook with their determination that she was only “extremely careless,” but not “grossly negligent,” and didn’t understand the law and so could have no ‘intent,’ basically when the email thing looked really bad for Hillary, there were lots of explanations in the NYT and WaPo that a conviction would not prevent her from being President.
But I know, Freder, the rules are different when it’s a Democrat involved.
The DOJ and FBI went to a Magistrate Judge who does not have the legal authority to issue a federal warrant and filed an affidavit that has no connection to any federal law.
Well you are just lying
The moment you throw Hillary in jail is the moment I might begin to care.
Until then, fuck off.
Imaginative pro-Trump pundits write stuff like this. Trump himself writes different stuff. (And his lawyers? Crickets)
How badly is this going for the Dems?
There is a concerted effort in the media to stop calling what the FBI did a "raid".
The old ‘classification markings’ canard! When documents are declassified or their level of classification lowered, the original markings remain. But, apparently, you’re more worried about your team’s takes.
This is actually the definition of bullshit (where something as it reads is technically true, but an outright lie). When documents are declassified, the original markings do remain, but there are additional markings on them with the date declassified and the agency that declassified the documents.
The whole idea that an ex-President of the USA, after spending 4 years having access to every classified document, and with his finger on the nuclear button, would be a "Security risk" and criminal under the espinoge act is absurd.
And exactly, why is this assertion true?
Trumps crime??
Coming down that escalator 7 years ago, and waking up millions of Americans to the corruption and evil in our government, on both sides of the aisle. -Matthew H
“Fair to point out that to get a search warrant signed by a judge there has to be an alleged crime. But that does not mean the FBI made up a crime to get a search warrant to get back sensitive documents.”
Let’s get this out of the way: He is a Magistrate Judge. He is not an Article III Judge, who went through Presidential nomination, and Senate confirmation. Several real Article III Judges essentially just said : “Bruce is a good guy, we will appoint him a magistrate in order to offload some of our work to him”. Which means that he very likely doesn’t have the 4th Amdt power to determine probable cause to order search warrants. Moreover, Article III judges are subject to impeachment and removal by Congress. He is not. He can only be removed from office by the Judicial Branch. Keep in mind that in recent decades, probably century, Article III Judges were lawyers first, and had/have legal training. In recent years, that means they graduated from law school and passed a state bar exam. Magistrate Judges don’t have that requirement, yet, here are making determinations of probable cause.
As for the allegation of a crime: again the aspect of legal training intrudes. When Andrew Weissman surfaced as a talking head, I was pretty sure that the claimed Obstruction of Justice charge was utilizing the gross statutory misinterpretion that he made up, with the help of the LawFare group, that essentially reads intent and materiality out of the statute. The standard used by him and the other Mueller prosecutors to, for example, spring their perjury trap on Gen Flynn (it lacked materiality because the FBI had the transcripts of his call to the Russian Ambassador, and he didn’t). They very likely went to a Magistrate Judge, instead of an Article III Judge, because real judges would much more likely know how to read statutes, including knowing that Obstruction of Justice requires intent and materiality, that the Espionage Act doesn’t cover the acts of the sitting President, that he has plenary declassification authority, that documents in his possession marked classified, after he left office, probably aren’t, and the supposed PRA violations aren’t criminal. I think that one of the big reasons for redacting so much in the affidavits is that the search warrant rests on such a flimsy foundation. Of course, the DOJ NSD and FBI CD are masters at this, as evidence by their RussiaGate and Mueller era shenanigans.
But Trump is not sloppy legally.
Really?!
Let me get this straight.
” To establish probable cause that “national defense information” remained at Mar-a-Lago, the affidavit noted that a review by FBI agents of the 15 boxes retrieved by NARA “identified documents with classification markings in fourteen of the fifteen boxes.” The FBI agent who signed the search warrant affidavit then attested that based on his “training and experience,” he “knows that documents classified at these levels typically contain NDI” or “national defense information.”
Sooo...
The FBI agent who signed the search warrant affidavit presumably had access to the 15 boxes retrieved by NARA, but could only speculate that boxes remaining at MAL contained national defense information. Even though the previously returned documents apparently did not or he would have noted so.
A and B have the same classification markings.
A does not contain national defense information
Therefore B must contain national defense information because they have the same classification markings
Huh?
As an add-on to what I just wrote,
All relevant legal interpretation I've read indicates trump can unilaterally de-classify materials by simple executive action while he was President. That does not mean those materials STAY de-classified and it's possibly subsequent executive action could rescind or re-classify such materials.
Nonetheless, we can see evidence Trump acted in good faith previously: sending materials to NARA, admitting the FBI voluntarily to investigate, responding to requests, indicating actions such as further securing the storage room at Mar-A-Lago requested by the government....you can see all of that. Even in the affidavit itself.
But you can't see good faith actions by the government here. You can see they had access to the materials, they had FBI agents on site reviewing them, and yet nothing was treated as urgent or emergency involving a former President. Words to the contrary are not supported by action.
As an add-on to what I just wrote,
All relevant legal interpretation I've read indicates trump can unilaterally de-classify materials by simple executive action while he was President. That does not mean those materials STAY de-classified and it's possibly subsequent executive action could rescind or re-classify such materials.
Nonetheless, we can see evidence Trump acted in good faith previously: sending materials to NARA, admitting the FBI voluntarily to investigate, responding to requests, indicating actions such as further securing the storage room at Mar-A-Lago requested by the government....you can see all of that. Even in the affidavit itself.
But you can't see good faith actions by the government here. You can see they had access to the materials, they had FBI agents on site reviewing them, and yet nothing was treated as urgent or emergency involving a former President. Words to the contrary are not supported by action.
The Drill SGT said...
Obama left the WH with 30 million pages of docs which now reside in Chicago, with a post move promise to NARA that eventually they will be digital and made available.
meanwhile...
That is the only power NARA has.
The power to make these records available.
It cannot seize records to keep them secret.
Funny how the fascist shitheads always want to keep things secret.
The Obama documents canard is utter bs. Tells one the quality of much of the MAL analysis. ODS?
Howard love, loves loves himself some fascism. Dontcha, Howie.
I think it is important to understand the qualifying language leftist have started using, knowing they have been caught in a lie. The now say "marked as classified".
It is important to know why, documents "marked as classified" are not classified now.
President Trump was working for months, going through proper channels to declassify RUSSIA!. but the originating agencies refused, and slow walked the process until Trump was out. So President Trump declared them declassified. Still bearing the markings, and took them with him, before the bureaucracy could destroy them.
The posted part of the article doesn’t say anything about National Security papers. What about Nat sec?
No controlling legal authority then?
Meahwhile - the real crooks and liars - walk.
Biden+clinton. Family grifters above the law, fat.
Impeachment 3.1: it's not a fetus, it's a baby and she is viable. Good luck, child hunters. Hope and Change Spring eternal.
“on February 9, 2022, the Special Agent in Charge of NARA’s Office of Inspector General sent a referral via email to the DOJ.”
That is directly from the affidavit.
The person in charge of NARA's Office of Inspector General is the NARA's Inspector General, Brett M. Baker.
He is not a Special Agent in Charge, which is a designation used for FBI Agents.
Is this just sloppy language or did the referral actually come from an FBI agent inside the IG office and not from NARA's IG?
"The Federalist", which most on the left consider a right wing propaganda sheet, mostly involved in sneaking Justices onto the Supreme Court seems so much more balanced that the Washington Post or New York Times.
"In other words, the DOJ bent the Espionage Act" is the strongest wording I found in the article.
In contrast:
The New York Times goes with "His absolute awfulness stares you in the face, like a baboon's backside."
Am I alone in judging an argument by how the author pounds the table. The Times sounds impolite bordering on deranged. Are Times readers so jaded to this language , or so deep into acceptance that they have lost ant form of judgement about what they read?
"Argue fact, argue law or pound the table" is something learned in law school. The Times has chosen to pound the table.
A source has revealed that a cryptic hand written note was found in Melania's wardrobe that might reveal a wide ranging conspiracy against the interests of the United States. It reads, in full,
“Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels—bring home for Emma.”
It is currently being analyzed by the NSA and other intelligence agencies.
‘When documents are declassified, the original markings do remain, but there are additional markings on them with the date declassified and the agency that declassified the documents.’
Glad you agree that the original markings are still there!! And, I never said there weren’t additional markings, my argument was to the wording of the original article. All you did was create a straw man... lol
I never knew that a Magistrate judge is just an administrative aid for the District Court Judges. You would think a Magistrate judge would “know his place” and refer this search warrant application to a District Court Judge, one with proper authority, for such an unprecedented request…. Even if he thought it was within his assigned set of responsibilities, referring it would be the right thing to do in this case….especially since he had recused himself in another Trump-related case due to his bias against Trump. Makes you wonder what deal he had with DOJ…
Q about Process/Procedure in /Our Nation of Rule of Law/ aka USA
if pre-chosen venue is DC
why was it necessary to involve local judge to execute the search warrant?
Readering said...
The Obama documents canard is utter bs. Tells one the quality of much of the MAL analysis. ODS?
Well, it is utter BS to you because it utterly destroys your argument and makes you the definition of a hypocrite.
Just like you ignoring all of the previous court cases on this subject.
You are a fascist so that is par for the course.
Nobody expects anything of you morally or intellectually. You are a hollow projection of a will to power.
First off, how is Trump not an "officer" of the U.S. government.
Maybe someone has ridiculed this ignorant question before me. Officers of the United States are appointed by the President. The President, by contrast, is elected. He is not an officer of the U.S., he is the chief executive; he is a branch of government unto himself.
I await Professora [Constitutionalis Extraordinaira] comments
Is the President an "officer of the United States" for purposes of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment?
are there other contexts for this Q arising?
@Achilles: "Biden will not finish his term. . . . If he does not die or resign first he will be impeached for his role in using the FBI to persecute his political opponent illegally."
You mean the way President Trump was impeached for allegedly withholding military aid to Ukraine unless President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced an investigation into the alleged influence-peddling activities of Joe Biden, Trump's potential* 2020 opponent in the presidential election?
*It should be remembered that, unless the fix was in from the very beginning, no one appeared to expect that the Democratic presidential candidate would be a demented corruptocrat whose best performance in the 2020 primaries had been a distant second in Nevada until Jim Clyburn rigged the primary in South Carolina and all remaining passengers on the Democratic Presidential Primary Ship o' Fools were "persuaded" to drop out.
Freder Frederson said...
The DOJ and FBI went to a Magistrate Judge who does not have the legal authority to issue a federal warrant and filed an affidavit that has no connection to any federal law.
Well you are just lying
What federal law was this in connection to?
What criminal statute?
Oh this has no connection to any federal law? You are again lying?
MalaiseLongue said...
@Achilles: "Biden will not finish his term. . . . If he does not die or resign first he will be impeached for his role in using the FBI to persecute his political opponent illegally."
You mean the way President Trump was impeached for allegedly withholding military aid to Ukraine unless President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced an investigation into the alleged influence-peddling activities of Joe Biden, Trump's potential* 2020 opponent in the presidential election?
Trump was impeached for investigating corruption and illegal activities.
Trump's "crime" was threatening to uncover the fact that DC politicians are laundering billions of taxpayer dollars through Ukraine and showing the American people what was going on.
The legal basis for impeaching Trump was complete garbage.
The Biden Regime has broken numerous laws. Biden himself has broken numerous laws. Biden's life has been a high crime and misdemeanor. He has taken Billions of dollars from foreign governments and sold influence in the US government.
Biden is a traitor and being impeached should just be the start.
somebody smoking crack said...
biden.. will be impeached for his role in using the FBI to persecute his political opponent
illegally.
seriously? SERIOUSLY??
you seriously think that there aren't 34 senators that would NOT vote guilty?
You don't get removed for being impeached, you get removed for being CONVICTED, which takes 67
guilties
When people say things like this, it makes other people realize that person is an idiot
There are crazy conspiracy sites out there that delude the hopeful, Gilbar.
While it would be just to indict Joe Biden and his sons for their criminal activity - it will never happen.
(son - not sons)
The President, by contrast, is elected. He is not an officer of the U.S., he is the chief executive; he is a branch of government unto himself.
The Vice President as well. It's why the President can't fire the Vice-President. They are the only executive branch officials elected. The DOJ is not an independent organization with their own powers.
"The affadavit states that DOJ didn't get involved until *after* NARA got boxes back from Trump that had docs with classification markings mixed loosely with other documents."
Declassified documents still have the word "Classified" on them routinely. And all classification authority is derived solely from the President.
There's also been funding approved for Mar a Lago to be an officially designated holding place for documents while awaiting a Trump library...but the Archives are dragging their feet.
Why?
The FBI has fired the Washington, DC based special agent who initiated the current investigation into former President Donald Trump.
Special Agent Tim Thibault has been escorted, under guard, from FBI headquarters in Washington. There are allegations that he hid the partisan nature of his investigations from FBI director Wray and from Attorney General Merrick Garland.
Looks like the FBI has found their patsy and Thibault will fall on his sword and take one for the team. Wonder what he extracted as payoff to do so?
If all you Trump apologists are correct, then Donald Trump has nothing to worry about. The Supreme Court he packed will surely quash the search warrant, and order all the items taken from Mar-A-Lago to be returned. But since you are worried, you must think that you are wrong, as you were wrong about the 2020 election being stolen from Trump.
Uh oh.
It appears there might be a plan afoot for the embarrassed New Soviet Democraticals to hit the exit ramp on their latest exposed lie-filled hoax which coincidentally also attacks core constitutional rights and established Presidential powers:
"The Washington Times reported eyewitness accounts that "Mr. Thibault was seen exiting the bureau’s elevator last Friday escorted by two or three 'headquarters-looking types.'"
Whistleblowers alleged that Thibault concealed the partisan nature of evidence from FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Merrick Garland to secure their approval to open an investigation into former President Donald Trump. That investigation culminated in the FBI's raid on Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month.
Thibault. Now there is a name, like Mary McCord and Strzok, that just keep showing up at the center of all these hoaxed up sham-peachment efforts.
I wrote this less than a week ago- the shoe that hasn't dropped yet is that Biden's hand puppeteer reclassified everything Trump declassified and took with him. That is probably part of the redacted affidavit, though it is possible that the people who wrote didn't bother pointing this out in the document.
When people say things like this, it makes other people realize that person is an idiot
==========
need to include the inestimable 34 Senators in idiot category for the scenario to fail
Is this just sloppy language or did the referral actually come from an FBI agent inside the IG office and not from NARA's IG?
=========
correct me if wrong
if Perkins Coie was Dem branch office wagging the Big Dog FBI/DOJ via special portal etc.
so why not more waggers in other agencies!
Nonetheless, we can see evidence Trump acted in good faith previously: sending materials to NARA, admitting the FBI voluntarily to investigate, responding to requests, indicating actions such as further securing the storage room at Mar-A-Lago requested by the government... - TreeJoe
And then he lied about having the rest of the documents, the ones the FBI had to take from Mar-Lago.
But since you are worried, you must think that you are wrong, as you were wrong about the 2020 election being stolen from Trump.
We're not worried. We're mad. Because it's all bullshit, including the election.
And you know it.
But since you are worried, you must think that you are wrong, as you were wrong about the 2020 election being stolen from Trump.
No, we worry that lefties like you will ignore law and order and keep trying to destroy the only honest man to hold office since Eisenhower.
2022 Left Bank of the Charles: "If all you Trump apologists are correct, then Donald Trump has nothing to worry about."
1971 Soviet Politburo: "If all you Refusnik apologists are correct, then you Refusniks have nothing to worry about."
damikesc: "There's also been funding approved for Mar a Lago to be an officially designated holding place for documents while awaiting a Trump library...but the Archives are dragging their feet.
Why?"
For the purposes of framing Donald Trump.
What federal law was this in connection to?
What criminal statute?
Oh this has no connection to any federal law? You are again lying?
You claimed that a Magistrate Judge cannot issue a search warrant. I provided a link to the CFR regulation that specifically states that Magistrate Judges do indeed have that authority.
What the fuck else do you require?
Now following the same procedures and norms followed by both parties since forever is “packing” the court. How do you even have a discussion with people who change the meaning of words whenever they see an advantage.
Don’t worry though, in the left’s new police regime for politics, “good people need not fear.”
The Supreme Court he packed
Really.
Which side is it again who regularly indulges in fun fantasies about adding however many justices it would take to ensure a forever progressive SCOTUS? Their inability so far to do so notwithstanding, isn't it odd that you'd refer to a duly elected president's successfully getting his choices confirmed to replace retiring or deceased justices in a same-number-of-justices SCOTUS as "court packing"?
(But Garland!) Yeah. But Garland. The principle at work in the Senate was consistently applied: the Senate and the Executive were of different parties when Garland was nominated, and of the same party when Trump's "packing" nominees came around. Elections have consequences, as it's said. If your side can successfully do the actual court packing that they love to brainstorm about, it'll be a different illustration of that fact.
Because “Officer” is essentially a term of art in the Constitution. Trump was the President, who nominated Principal Officers, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and appointed Inferior Officers. US Constitution Article II § 2 ¶ 2. Pretty clear cut
I see what you did there. You added a word to the constitution, "Principal", that just ain't there. The section you point to is vague, because although it uses the phrase "inferior officers", it is unclear if that includes "Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States" as "inferior officers". If they are inferior officers, then who are the principal officers?
Here is the entire paragraph, please show me where the phrase "Principal Officers" occurs:
"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments."
Left Bank demonstrates once again that he can't even fucking read. It is either that, or he is just a fucking liar.
Let me make it clear to you- we don't trust the government to enforce the law even-handedly. If you can't understand that basic fact about us, then you are a fucking idiot, Left Bank.
Heywood Rice: "And then he lied about having the rest of the documents"
LOL
You mean the Super Secret Nuclear Codes he was selling to Putin?
Our lefties become ever more Fancifully Fantastically Farcical by the day.
I actually looked it up after it was revealed that a magistrate judge approved the warrant. They do have the power to issue search warrants. No question.
They can also be fired by the circuit court that appoints them. They don’t serve for life as long as they exhibit good behavior.
A magistrate judge who approves a search warrant on any elected official, state or federal, is acting stupidly.
Approving a search warrant on the last POTUS? A warrant he would have to know is unprecedented? Way beyond stupid and shows an utter lack of judgment and decorum.
I’m certain the supervising justices are royally pissed. I recall reading something about his caseload being suddenly lowered. I suspect he won’t be a magistrate judge much longer.
Hmmm
https://mobile.twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1564357337237831682
I want to know when the National Archivist became a part of the Executive Branch that is OVER the President of the United States. Why isn't that position an elected position? I want to have a say in who is elected to that position.
How can a person employed by the Executive branch over-rule their boss?
If all you Trump apologists are correct, then Donald Trump has nothing to worry about. The Supreme Court he packed will surely quash the search warrant, and order all the items taken from Mar-A-Lago to be returned. But since you are worried, you must think that you are wrong, as you were wrong about the 2020 election being stolen from Trump.
The left isn't worried about due process and presuming guilt until proving innocence. How convenient.
Freder, just give it a rest.
Here is your answer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_of_the_United_States
"An officer of the United States is a functionary of the executive or judicial branches of the federal government of the United States to whom is delegated some part of the country's sovereign power. The term "officer of the United States" is not a title, but a term of classification for a certain type of official.
Under the Appointments Clause of the Constitution, the principal officers of the United States, such as federal judges, ambassadors, and "public Ministers" (Cabinet members) are appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate, but Congress may "vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments." Civilian officers of the United States are entitled to preface their names with the honorific style "the Honorable" for life; though in practice, this rarely occurs. Officers of the United States should not be confused with employees of the United States; the latter are more numerous and lack the special legal authority of the former."
The word "Principal" denotes officers requiring Senate confirmation; inferior officers can be appointed by the POTUS alone.
Once again, you've been schooled with a strap across your back.
damikesc said...
There's also been funding approved for Mar a Lago to be an officially designated holding place for documents while awaiting a Trump library...but the Archives are dragging their feet.
Why?
*******************
Because he's Trump.
Obama had no problem getting the Archives to approve removing all his docs to Chicago, where they sit mostly out of bounds to this day.
Freder Frederson said...
What federal law was this in connection to?
What criminal statute?
Oh this has no connection to any federal law? You are again lying?
You claimed that a Magistrate Judge cannot issue a search warrant. I provided a link to the CFR regulation that specifically states that Magistrate Judges do indeed have that authority.
What the fuck else do you require?
A law that Trump actually broke or is suspected of breaking.
Freder Frederson said...
Because “Officer” is essentially a term of art in the Constitution. Trump was the President, who nominated Principal Officers, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and appointed Inferior Officers. US Constitution Article II § 2 ¶ 2. Pretty clear cut
I see what you did there.
Yeah, he pointed out you are an ignorant fool that doesn't know his ass from his elbow and uses words he does not understand like several other people on here did.
Trump was not an officer of the United States Government.
He was the Executive Branch.
I know you are hovering around 95 IQ and this is tough for you. But it will just take you a little longer to catch up with the rest of us.
need to include the inestimable 34 Senators in idiot category for the scenario to fail
there are FIFTY democrat senators.. That is Plenty of idiots. Which ones do YOU see voting to convict?
The Constitution is clear: Federal archivists are like lt. colonels in the Army in that their authority exceeds any mere President's.
Sheesh. It's like some people just don't pay attention.
Roy Lofquist said...
A source has revealed that a cryptic hand written note was found in Melania's wardrobe that might reveal a wide ranging conspiracy against the interests of the United States. It reads, in full,
“Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels—bring home for Emma.”
It is currently being analyzed by the NSA and other intelligence agencies."
Marvelous quote. The book also nails it with the the analogue to climate change religious zealots. It has been at least 25 years since I read A Canticle For Leibowitz. I will put it on my read again list.
Freder read your own citation. It says that a principle officer is someone who is appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. Everyone who is elected at the federal is not a principle officer of the United States and the president as per the constitution is the executive branch. You also ( and the others here) conveniently forget a warrant requires a fair degree of specificity. It is not a fishing expedition. The government is already in deep doo doo as an article three judge is going to appoint a special master.
This is not going to end well for the FBI and the DoJ and if Trump gets reelected in 2024, 2025 is going to be a very bad year the Biden's, the Clinton's and Obama along with numerous Democrats. Once the precedent is established to persecute Trump it will also be a precedent to prosecute the criminal Democrats. Be careful what you wish for.
You mean the Super Secret Nuclear Codes he was selling to Putin?
Our lefties become ever more Fancifully Fantastically Farcical by the day. - Drago
Putting words in other people's mouths is a particularly stupid way to argue against basic facts. I wonder if you're able to do anything other than troll.
Yancey Ward It has been, what- two weeks now since the raid? Not a single leak about what was actually recovered in the raid. That tells me that they found nothing useful.
Another interpretation is that they weren’t looking for evidence but trying to cover some up. Robert Barnes of the Viva and Barnes podcast has speculated that the FBI wasn’t attempting to find evidence against President Trump but was trying to retrieve evidence against themselves. He noted that the normal MO for the FBI in high profile cases is to alert the media when they go on a raid like this. But, it was Trump who alerted the media. He speculated that the FBI thinks that Trump may have unknowingly brought evidence of the FBI’s own misdeeds with him to Mar A Lago and this is their attempt to get it back.
The espionage act is a non starter
Exactly the same criteria must be applied, as applied to Classified information
The test. Can a sitting President publicize National Defense Information? The clear answer is yes, without exception. The CiC exercises Plenary power over the Nations Defense. He can reveal information at will. That means he can take copies of anything he wants when he leaves.
It is easier to look at this from the other end. Exactly who in the Government has the constitutional power to mediate a dispute concerning DNI?
Heywood Rice: "Putting words in other people's mouths is a particularly stupid way to argue against basic facts. I wonder if you're able to do anything other than troll."
I did no such thing. I, unlike Team Left, did not present any fake quotes.
But I get it. You are feeling rather anxious as your latest hoaxed up lie falls apart in real time.
Though you ought to be very used to that by now.
Try to cope better.
Heywood Rice said...
Putting words in other people's mouths is a particularly stupid way to argue against basic facts.
Then start quoting some actual facts instead of the usual DNC fabrications.
It's been reported repeatedly that the FBI conducted a search and inspection of the documents at Mar-A-Lago earlier this year, removed a significant number of documents (the boxes that that the NARA and FBI inventoried prior to getting the warrant) and had Trump's team change the locks on the storage room door. The affidavit claims primarily to be concerned with recovering additional 'marked as classified' documents that remained in the storage area. Trump did not lie about having the documents. Everybody knows exactly where they are.
My guess is that the recently announced “Soul of the Nation” speech on Thursday will be Biden’s announcement that Trump will
Be indicted, that it is necessary to protect the “Soul of the Nation.” Any political benefit from criminally charging his political opponents will just be incidental.
@Freder
At 6:12 pm, you mentioned a reference you made at some point to the CFR that provides support for your claim that a Magistrate Judge had the legal power to issue valid search warrants under the 4th Amdt. Please recite - I went back through all your comments and couldn’t find it.
Just a quick reminder that CFR stands for Code of Federal Regulations. And that there is a priority of what controls in the US:
1. Constitution (Amendments overriding original text).
2. Statutes (New laws typically overriding older ones)
3. Regulations (New regulations typically overriding older ones).
What you seemingly did was to cite a Regulation to counter my Constitutional argument. That is typically a losing proposition. One place where that argument dynamic will probably soon play out is in challenging the ATF’s very recent redefinition (in very recent regulations in the CFR) that redefine several key terms in the National Firearms Act (NFA) (e.g. “firearm”) using, in particular, the 2nd Amdt. They are attempting to broaden their agency’s power to regulate home made firearms under the NFA, despite that statute having been Constitutionally justified and empowered under the Commerce Clause.
Also, yes, Article II § 2 ¶ 2 does not explicitly define “principal” officers. It only defines “Inferior” officers - who don’t require Senate confirmation. But did so in relation to the previous phrase that said that Officers (etc) needed to be nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The structure of the sentence is that Officers (etc) need Senate confirmation, but that Congress could enact through legislation positions (Inferior Officers) that don’t. Convention has been, for some time, to use “Principal” to distinguish officers who require Senate confirmation, to “Inferior” officers, who, by statute, don’t. Much less confusing than comparing “Officers” and “Inferior Officers”.
In Freder’s defense (often as well as Robert Cook), he seriously engages in arguments, as he has here. Contrast that the most of the leftist trolls who engage in drive by fire bombing, and think that insulting other posters or calling Trump names, is the way to counter arguments. I rarely agree with Freder, but he did catch me cutting corners here.
This was a cherry bomb thrown out hoping it would sway folks toward democrats because they are so virtuous. Don’t think it quite worked.
No evidence to support my opinion. Your mileage may vary, but I get the sense folks are getting tired of this crap. Might be wrong.
Think the Dems overplayed here whatever hand they in their fever dreams might have thought they had.
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