And there's this at the NYT: "Trump claims he declassified all the documents at Mar-a-Lago. Even if that’s true, it probably doesn’t matter."
Mr. Trump has offered no details, but if he is saying he made a blanket, oral invocation that all the files he took to Mar-a-Lago were unclassified, without making any formal, written record, that would be difficult to definitively prove or disprove. Even if there is no evidence that Mr. Trump followed normal procedures for declassifying certain types of information, his lawyers could argue that he was not constitutionally bound to obey such rules.
But in any case, such a claim would not settle the matter. For one thing, two of the laws that a search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago this week referenced — Sections 1519 and 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — make the taking or concealment of government records a crime regardless of whether they had anything to do with national security.
ADDED: WaPo reports "National Archives counters Trump’s baseless claims about Obama records."
In its statement, NARA said that it obtained “exclusive legal and physical custody” of Obama’s records when he left office in 2017. It said that about 30 million pages of unclassified records were transferred to a NARA facility in the Chicago area and that they continue to be maintained “exclusively by NARA.”
ALSO: I hope you enjoy commenting on this post. I don't like using my blog as a news feed, and that's all I did here. I haven't added anything, and at this point I don't intend to.
পোস্টগুলি
১০৫টি মন্তব্য:
Clinton had Sandy "Socks" Berger.
But remember, no reasonable prosecutor would charge a former Secretary of State for hiding four years' worth of job-related emails on private server which was never turned over to the government, and which was destroyed when subpoenaed.
Sections 1519 and 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — make the taking or concealment of government records a crime regardless of whether they had anything to do with national security.
Ignoring any justification of the raid, are we just expected to ignore the uneven application of the law just because Trump is involved?
So, we're back to Russian collusion, and the Steele Dossier. Trump is selling nuclear secrets to Putin! Or Lil Rocket Man! Or XI!
Was Fort Sumter fired upon, again? Am I the guy looking back at that chick?
Shorter NYT: Even if Trump followed the rules, it won't matter.
I'm surprised Sir Donald didn't start off with native Indonesian...
I can state with complete certainty that no reasonable Prosecutor would charge Barack Obama.
I would have been willing to bet that "We were looking for Top Secret nuclear documents," leaked to the WaPo, was self-serving, unfalsifiable bullshit. (I mean, come on: They waited til now? They "negotiated" with his lawyers?)
Then I saw this and said, Oh shit. He really did have some sensitive nuclear information.
Click your heels three times and say “I declassify you, I declassify you, I declassify you”. Done.
How much time in the slammer did Sandy Burglar get for "the taking or concealment of government records"?
and, on another point, should we just put a pre-clause to the terms "NYTimes" or "WaPo", being "Democrat sponsored dis-information"?
Call me skeptical. They didn't say "exclusive rights to ALL of President Obama's records". One could interpret their statement as "of the records we have, we've got exclusive rights". In Chicago no less.
I'm betting he kept a picture of the dead OBL.
It's important to keep in mind that much of the FBI leadership believed -- and perhaps still does believe -- that Donald Trump was compromised by Russian Intelligence and therefore was compelled -- and still is compelled -- to work as a secret agent for the Kremlin.
As such, Trump was -- and still is -- an extraordinary danger to the USA's national security.
The FBI leadership has been determined to contain that danger.
For a couple years -- during the Mueller investigation -- the FBI leadership intended to lure President Trump into an obstruction-of-justice situation that would enable Congress to impeach and remove him from his elected office.
That is the context of the recent raid of his home in Florida. It is quite plausible that one FBI official there planted some Top Secret nuclear weapons into Trump's papers in order to destroy Trump's political career forever.
There were 30+ FBI officials there. One of them would suffice to plant the documents.
That is why the FBI demanded at the beginning of the search that all the security cameras be turned off.
If you read sections 1519 and 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code, they have to be stretched beyond the breaking point to apply to Trump or any other POYUS (including Obama and 33 million pages of documents securely stored in—-???Chicago).
The sections do apply rather specifically to Sandy Berger and Hillary Clinton.
The Biden Administration should inform the public about the transfer and handling of documents in the cases of the out-going Obama, Bush, Clinton and other recent Presidencies.
Declassified information cannot be unlawfully retained. One of three down.
The documents were neither destroyed, obviously, nor concealed, as the FBI knew of their existence and location, and in fact had direct physical access to them months ago, yet did not remove them from Mar-a-Lago at that time. Requests concerning the documents were granted, like placing a stronger lock on the storage room door. Two of three down and it's about to be three for three.
Every president for decades has removed millions and millions of pages of documents upon leaving office, the idea that none of those documents could be argued to have been unlawfully removed is madness. Mrs. Clinton certainly removed many documents and stored them on a private server in blatant violation of the law, while still in office, for which she was never prosecuted. To indict Trump for this would be incredibly, dangerously stupid.
We're at three for three on this is some incredibly brazen double standard banana republic BS.
If you want to know what the NYT's is trying to cover up here is a good article:
The FBI raid was to steal records pertaining to Clinton and FBI corruption in the Russia gate scandal.
If you want to see the unsealed warrant it is there.
Trump had every right and the power to declassify those documents.
Whatever Trump did or didn't do, it is wrong and a capital crime in the eyes of the Deep State, NYT and WaPo.
Let's be serious here. Hilary had a server in her house that had shit for security. She kept classified documents on her unsecure server. Every foreign country in the world hacked her server.
If the FBI did its job, it would be clear that Hillary's server has hacked by our enemies.
If only someone was honest to the American people about classified documents.
"Even if it's true, it probably doesn't matter!" NYT
WaPo reports "National Archives counters Trump’s baseless claims about Obama records."In its statement, NARA said that it obtained “exclusive legal and physical custody” of Obama’s records when he left office in 2017. It said that about 30 million pages of unclassified records were transferred to a NARA facility in the Chicago area and that they continue to be maintained “exclusively by NARA.”
It is an illegitimate fascist regime acting like an illegitimate fascist regime.
"Even if that’s true, it probably doesn’t matter."
Not to the "ends justify the means" left (and the GOPe). For them, Trump is literally Hitler and taking him down is all that matters. No lie is too big.
The tweet below is from a Mr. Mike Davis. He worked on the Senate Judiciary committee and was a law clerk for Justice Gorsuch. He knows way more than the NYT and WaPo non-lawyer partisan hacks.
"Again, the classification statutes/regulations *do not apply* to the President of the United States.
He has the inherent constitutional power, as commander-in-chief, to classify and declassify anything he wants, in any manner he wants.
The Supreme Court reaffirmed this in 1987."
Trump's handling of government documents at MAL since the government first came knocking is of a piece with his taking the fifth in this week's deposition, supposedly at the strong insistence of his counsel. He seems to have long covid, which has severely impaired executive brain function. He cannot deal rationally with returning government documents, and he cannot be properly prepared and trusted to testify accurately about his businesses. (His obsession with his predecessor predated covid.)
The one thing on which I find myself in agreement with Republican--the overuse of secrecy classifications. Kinda crazy how much stuff is classified, even if that does not excuse Trump's crazy conduct here. And of course Trump weaponized secrecy classifications against departing members of his administration who wanted to write about their experiences.
"Then we get to the big stuff…. The records and evidence in unredacted and declassified state, that would drive the DOJ-NSD to claim vital national security interests.
The NSA compliance officer notified NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers of unauthorized use of the NSA database by FBI contractors searching U.S. citizens during the 2015/2016 presidential primary. That 2016 notification is a classified record.
The response from Mike Rogers, and the subsequent documentary evidence of what names were being searched is again a classified record. The audit logs showing who was doing the searches (which contractors, which agencies and from what offices), as noted by Director Rogers, was preserved. That is another big-time classified record.
In addition, we would have Admiral Rogers writing a mandatory oversight notification to the FISA court detailing what happened. That’s a big and comprehensive classified record, likely contained in the documents in Mar-a-Lago… and then the goldmine, the fully unredacted 99-page FISA court opinion detailing the substance of the NSA compromise by FBI officials and contractors, including the names, frequency and dates of the illegal surveillance. That is a major classified document the Deepest Deep State would want to keep hidden."
The nuclear information was kept in Melanias dresses. Or is that a relic of the original head of the FBI.
Would dems/libs like Hoover now? They like them some Bush now. They love them some Double dipped Cheney. After all, its all about principles.
Get the one guy who didnt start a war. He's dangerous.
"The risk to the fabric of the U.S. government is why we see lawyers and pundits so confused as they try to figure out the disproportionate response from the DOJ and FBI, toward “simple records”, held by President Trump in Mar-a-Lago. Very few people can comprehend what has been done since January 2009, and the current state of corruption as it now exists amid all of the agencies and institutions of government.
Barack Obama spent 8 years building out and refining the political surveillance state. The operators of the institutions have spent the last six years hiding the construct.
President Donald Trump declassified the material then took evidence to Mar-a-Lago. The people currently in charge of managing the corrupt system, like Merrick Garland, Lisa Monaco, Chris Wray and the Senate allies, are going bananas. From their DC perspective, Donald Trump is an existential threat."
I'm told that investigators are now focusing on Trump's failure to leak the classified documents to the New York Times, which is the accepted procedure in these matters.
Not to be an asshole, but Trump's statement is a flat out lie.
He is now under investigation for violation of the Espionage Act. Just think, Reality Winner is serving four years for taking one document.
“Penalties for Espionage
If you are convicted of gathering and delivering defense information in order to aid a foreign government, you could be sentenced to life in prison or face a death sentence. Economic espionage can also lead to 15 years imprisonment and a fine up to $5 million.”
https://nyccriminallawyer.com/federal-crimes/espionage/
Maybe he needs to hire this guy.
OK so, why didn't the National Records, just tell Trump he had to hand over the documents? Why wasn't a supoena issued? The Obama records are NOW in custody. how long did it take for them to go from Obama's control to the archive's control?
Why isn't George Bush speaking out. He knows what POTUS can take and what they can't. And above all, why did it take the DOJ 1.5 YEARS to decide these records had to be seized in a raid? They knew the records were gone within a monh of Trump leaving office.
Again, we're seeing a political vendatta in action. A desire to destroy a possible POTUS challenger in 2024 and a defeated opponent. No other POTUS has been treated this way. This is a dispute that should have been resolved over the negotiation table. Or if neccessary by a Federal district court.
I see no reason for the raid. Or searching the ex- First Lady's underwear drawer. Or opening up a private safe. Or taking 9 hours. Or refusing to let Trump's lawyer be present.
I said before Garland with indict Trump before the Midterms. If they can't find a crime, they will make up one.
President Donald Trump declassified the material then took evidence to Mar-a-Lago.
The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified. There is a process he has to go through and the classifying agency has an opportunity to object.
And he sure as hell can't declassify stuff after he leaves office.
This will be fun, because there is no statute of limitations on mishandling classified data. Nobody but hacks are buying this story, but it won't matter. The Democrats will try whatever they will, but they just now lowered the bar and Hillary's only defense will be a pardon.
Is this the moment that tRump shot someone on 5th Ave? LOL at bbbbbbut Barack.
Do his cultist MAGAts care?
The point is negotiating for stuff back instead of staging a raid to look for any evidence of criminal activity. Classified is a cover. They didn't want to negotiate, they wanted to look.
I agree with rcocean that Garland will indict Trump and it will be very soon. I think America needs to go full French Revolution here and the Deplorables should storm the DOJ building and burn it to the ground.
Not a single comment either here or at the NY Times on the inherent and totally disqualifying conflict of interest in having this Attorney General attempting to arrest the leader of the political party who refused to place him on the Supreme Court.
Since when do we allow cops to "investigate" people and to prosecute people they're having personal beefs with?
Merrick Garland is corrupt. And obviously believes himself to be untouchable.
If he is ever President again, Donald Trump had better open up a new wing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and start putting these people there.
madAsHell said...
Clinton had Sandy "Socks" Berger.
And Trump had Kash Patel, who was under investigation by the intelligence agencies for leaking classified information.
Don't you love Inga's ability to completely ignore the obvious point of the post...which is the double standard that now exists in the Justice system. I have to give you credit for your complete commitment to the cause Inga. And it's consistent.
That level of commitment is very Trump like. My compliments
NYT: Reader, we live in a world that has elections, and those elections have to be guarded by Agents with warrants. Who's gonna do it? You? You, CNN? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the Constitution, and you curse the DOJ. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that the Constitution's death, while tragic, kept Hunter's laptop out of the news; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, put Biden into the White House.
NYT: You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Trump off the ballot -- you need Trump off the ballot.
American People: Did you order the FBI raid on Mar-a-Largo?
NYT: YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID!!!
"Not to be an asshole, but Trump's statement is a flat out lie."
When this is said by a Lefty, you can take it to the bank that it will turn out to be completely true, and Lefties and their propagandists in the media will turn themselves inside out trying to keep proving it's a "lie". And then they'll just call it "the big lie" since it's completely true but unacceptable to Lefties.
Blogger Mike Sylwester said...
It's important to keep in mind that much of the FBI leadership believed -- and perhaps still does believe -- that Donald Trump was compromised by Russian Intelligence and therefore was compelled -- and still is compelled -- to work as a secret agent for the Kremlin.
Very poor attempt at sarcasm or you’re a complete dupe who’ll believe anything the FBI leadership lies about.
No one in the FBI leadership ever believed Trump was compromised by Russian intelligence. They were all in on the hoax from the gitgo. They lied to the FISA court. They painted Carter Page, a USNA graduate and former Navy officer as a traitor in order to find something damning on Trump. They failed. They attempted to compromise members of Trump’s staff- and failed.
Now they’re pretending his possession of many years old papers is a clear and present security breach. Laughable on it’s face.
Trump is by far the cleanest man in Washington DC.
Correction to my own comment at 3:58 AM
It is quite plausible that one FBI official there planted some Top Secret nuclear-weapons documents into Trump's papers in order to destroy Trump's political career forever.
"Barack Obama spent 8 years building out and refining the political surveillance state. The operators of the institutions have spent the last six years hiding the construct."
What is "the political surveillance state?" It this something different from a surveillance state?
What did Obama, specifically, do to "build out and refine" this political surveillance state? Do you suggest the US was not a surveillance state well before Obama became president? (I do not suggest Obama did not continue or further the surveillance state.)
"President Donald Trump declassified the material then took evidence to Mar-a-Lago."
How do you know Trump declassified "the material?" Why would he? To what purpose? Why would he take it--"the evidence" (sic)--to Mar-a-Lago? Why would he? To what purpose?
I have no problem with any president declassifying as much classified documents as they wish. I applaud it. (Or would if it were actually a thing.) I wish each president would do so, the more the better. Declassify it all, I say! But, again...what reason would there be to "declassify" classified documents and deposit them in his personal residence, informing no one, making them available to no one, least of all to the people, we, who are the ultimate owners of all government documents, given that they--in sky-in-the-pie theory--are the people's papers, as our government is the people's government? (Or so they would have us believe).
My hope is that they investigate the leak of classified documents to the Washington Post as diligently as they investigate Trump.
Fat chance.
I'll withhold my thoughts until the full and non-redacted warrant application is released. While I doubt it ever will be, if it is it'll most likely be akin to the feebs lies to the FISA court in the matter of fantasy collusion.
rcocean said...
I said before Garland with indict (sic) Trump before the Midterms. If they can't find a crime, they will make up one.
Gosh, rc, all you had to do was read what the search warrant permitted to be searched, and removing Top Secret documents to MAL is a felony under a law that Trump signed. TS docs were found, thank you very much.
It ain't the midterms with which you need to be concerned. When these found documents are presented to the DC jury, where the crime was committed, Trump is out of politics forever. So calm down and put your body armor back into the gun safe.
And above all, why did it take the DOJ 1.5 YEARS to decide these records had to be seized in a raid? They knew the records were gone within a monh of Trump leaving office.
I'm going with the theory that someone in the WH told lackeys at the DoJ to use the ongoing spat with the National Archives as an excuse to go raid Mar-A-Lago in hopes of turning up dirt on Trump, or just embarrassing him and the GOP. I think that the Dems' internal polling is looking awful, and they are desperate for something to try and change the narrative.
Obama's records are stored in a former furniture store whose parking lot was gated as a security measure when the archives from the Obama years were transferred there under a deal worked out by the National Archives. There have been delays in building the Obama Library, the permanent home for all these files, in Chicago and so the files and 35,000 items donated to the Obamas have been there much longer than any expected. The National Archives regards everything there as secure because you have to be a staff member to go in the door. Also you couldn't park your car there because there's a gate, closing off the parking lot.
Once documents are declassified, they're no longer classified.
I like some of the phrasing I saw - they're going after documents with 'classification markings'. No mention of declassification stamps. Classified stuff, from FOUO to Secret to TS, to TS(whatever) is considered declassified once the controlling authority says it's no longer classified.
This is banana republic bullshit.
Obama's records are stored in a former furniture store whose parking lot was gated as a security measure when the archives from the Obama years were transferred there under a deal worked out by the National Archives. There have been delays in building the Obama Library, the permanent home for all these files, in Chicago and so the files and 35,000 items donated to the Obamas have been there much longer than any expected. The National Archives regards everything there as secure because you have to be a staff member to go in the door. Also you couldn't park your car there because there's a gate, closing off the parking lot.
Mr. Wibble said...
"I think that the Dems' internal polling is looking awful, and they are desperate for something to try and change the narrative.:
They could try being competent for a change. Get the border under control, stop printing billions to 'help' with inflation, and show they're something more than greedy, grasping idiots who are more concerned with how they look to each other...
But that's crazy talk, right?
If you read the Gnostic Gospels, like the Gospel of Thomas, it turns out that when Jesus was arrested in the garden on Super Tuesday, the Pharisees claimed they had found a bunch of classified scrolls hidden away in a manger, in a cave down by the leper colony, and also in one of the nets on Peter's boat.
They even went to far as to search Mary Magdeline's lingerie drawer. No additional scrolls were found, but the Roman soldiers had a great time throwing lots for her underwear. Magdeline's pronouns had remained she/her.
Jesus said to the Pharisees and the Romans, "These things my father's prophets have written are declassified through the son. It is my father's will that his people know, and live free in the knowledge of the truth. Just because you slow rolled the release doesn't mean I can't have them too, or the people can't see them."
"When God's people see what it written on these scrolls...your days of hypocrisy, and self adulation will be over. The unclean will again enter the Temple, and the meek shall inherit the earth".
So the Pheresis had the Romans arrest Jesus, the scrolls were burned, and then they tortured and crucified him instead of this other guy that had been steeling money from the Temple collection to hand over to his father; The Big Guy.
Three days later Jesus did rise from the dead. But the Gospel of Thomas tells us rather than ascend into Heaven, Jesus stayed on earth and ran for re-election against Pilate and Caiaphas who were on the Intersectionality ticket.
I have no idea what Thomas says happened next because I was so freaked out, I stopped reading at that point.
Nostradamus Quatrain #4:35
In a golden shed by the blue golf water
Hidden scrolls of truth are found by the Mara Lagoon
All the land punches a baby of tar
The Rabbits now hunt the Fox
“The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified. There is a process he has to go through and the classifying agency has an opportunity to object.”
They can object all they want, and apparently did. No matter. The sitting President has plenary declassification power and authority. He doesn’t have to ask the bureaucrats “may I?” to declassify documents. Indeed, their power to declassify is derivative and delegated from his power to do so.
“And he sure as hell can't declassify stuff after he leaves office.”
That is true, but also probably irrelevant.
“The point is negotiating for stuff back instead of staging a raid to look for any evidence of criminal activity. Classified is a cover. They didn't want to negotiate, they wanted to look”
Exactly and obviously. Trump was President for four years. He saw documents that would probably turn your hair white. Documents about Clinton and Biden corruption. Documents about Democrat election fraud. Documents about the Russia collusion hoax. Stuff the Democrats had their minions mark “Top Secret” to keep anyone from talking about them. No shit they desperately wanted to see if Trump had copies.
He almost certainly does. The guy can work a copy machine. But they’re not kept in his office safe or in one of Melania’s hatboxes. What kind of fucking idiot would think they were.
“Don't you love Inga's ability to completely ignore the obvious point of the post...which is the double standard that now exists in the Justice system.”
And just how did you come to this conclusion? The tags for this post don’t indicate any such thing. Despite Althouse specifically stating she is merely reporting, that she was not adding her opinion on the matter, you assumed she was posting about a “double standard” of some sort.
Freder Frederson said...
Not to be an asshole, but Trump's statement is a flat out lie.
Freder rarely disappoints. The lefties today are taking a victory lap as they exult at the Trump raid.
I think that Trump, after trying to get these records declassified for years, decided "fuck it." He will use them as evidence in his lawsuit against the usual suspects. They have enlisted the Intel Community to block his efforts to declassify the FBI attempted coup and the difference in treatment of Hillary. This may bring about a confrontation about the use of "classification" to hide misbehavior.
General Hayden weighed in today with his opinion that execution (assassination) should be considered.
I would not sell Trump a life insurance policy. Epstein is the model.
After yesterday's show, the release of the "inventory" today is Garland's big "f*ck you" to America.
And there's this at the NYT: "Trump claims he declassified all the documents at Mar-a-Lago. Even if that’s true, it probably doesn’t matter."
Well, of course not!
That would require the Biden* Admin to be bound by the law, and we all know that the NYT holds that no law ever applies to Democrats that are doing what the Left wants
Dear Lefty scum. Can you prove:
1: Trump did NOT declassify the documents
2: Trump took ONLY COPIES of documents that the Feds needed to have copies of
No?
Then FOAD, you don't have a case
Jerry said...
Mr. Wibble said...
"I think that the Dems' internal polling is looking awful, and they are desperate for something to try and change the narrative.:
They could try being competent for a change. Get the border under control, stop printing billions to 'help' with inflation, and show they're something more than greedy, grasping idiots who are more concerned with how they look to each other...
They don't want the border under control, they want to destroy the US economy, and they ARE greedy, grasping idiots.
So no, it's not possible for them to look competent in a way that normal Americans would value
So Joe Biden needs to be put on notice that if he EVER takes even one document with him to Delaware, he will be investigated, hounded, impeached, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
"The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified. "
Yes he can. Obama said in public he killed Osama Bin Ladin with no formalities at all. The President of the US is the sole authority on what is declassified. You can't prove he did not declassify it. Truman declassified that the atomic bomb existed and let the press publish details that were used by the Soviets. The princely JFK declassified top secret photos of Cuban missile sites for Christ sakes.
The president does not ask his likspittles what he can declassify, he does what he sees appropriate.
"There have been delays in building the Obama Library, the permanent home for all these files, in Chicago and so the files and 35,000 items donated to the Obamas have been there much longer than any expected."
In Chicago? Workers keep getting shot and it's hard to find replacements, I presume.
What a country!
This much is clear, though -- resorting to these "what about..." arguments is to lose the argument. If your argument is that other people did it too, then you are admitting culpability and only complaining about unequal prosecution.
The first thing I thought of when I read this was why 33 million? It just seems like an odd number to use. I think he should have just said millions. What was his source for the number 33 million? I have no doubt Obama took documents when he left, possibly even millions. I don't know, the number 33 just sounds odd to me. Like something Trump would pull out of his ass. Not that he is known for things like that.
gadfly said...
Gosh, rc, all you had to do was read what the search warrant permitted to be searched
Would that be the search warrant that the FBI refused to give to trump's lawyer?
Is there some reason why you believe this "leaked search warrant" is actually the correct and complete one?
Why?
and removing Top Secret documents to MAL is a felony under a law that Trump signed. TS docs were found, thank you very much.
They're not "Top Secret" if President Trump declassified them before taking them
Since he says he did, and you can't prove that he didn't, they weren't TS docs
MikeD said...
I'll withhold my thoughts until the full and non-redacted warrant application is released. While I doubt it ever will be, if it is it'll most likely be akin to the feebs lies to the FISA court in the matter of fantasy collusion.
We dont' want the full and unreacted search warrant. We want all the affidavits they filed in order to get the search warrant
That's where the real BS is hidden
Meanwhile, it is likely that the search warrant is illegally overbroad and thus the search was illegal, as well as the fruits thereof, i.e. the items taken.
I am sure that all the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane documents were classified Top Secret.
Trump would not have Top Secret documents about nuclear weapons.
Instead, he would have lots of the FBI's Top Secret documents about his campaign staff members being secret agents of Russian Intelligence.
Inga said...
“Don't you love Inga's ability to completely ignore the obvious point of the post...which is the double standard that now exists in the Justice system.”
And just how did you come to this conclusion? The tags for this post don’t indicate any such thing. Despite Althouse specifically stating she is merely reporting, that she was not adding her opinion on the matter, you assumed she was posting about a “double standard” of some sort.
The only reason you don't see the implicit double standard in our justice system is because you are really, really stupid.
Seth Barrett Tillman
@SethBTillman
“The rationale being offered via anonymous sources is that Trump had the US nuclear codes in some
unsecured boxes on his Mar-a-Lago facility. And the administration negotiated with Trump for the return of these docs and delayed serving a warrant for over 1.5 years.
Makes sense!“
"He is now under investigation for violation of the Espionage Act. Just think, Reality Winner is serving four years for taking one document."
I missed that time in our nation when Reality Winner was elected President of the United States and had the authority to decide which documents were classified and which were not.
I bet Hillary is pissed. Someone else beat her to coveted prize of being the "First Woman Elected President" of our country. Of course, Hillary went ahead and made her own decisions about how to secure information (not very well it seems), but she is a woman and cannot be held to the same standards.
Barack Obama could stand in the middle of Times Square handing out classified documents to random strangers….
For some unknown reason, it’s always different when Democrats do it.
Republicans are nothing if not consistent.
They have to learn the hard way.
This isn't Ft. Sumpter.
Ft. Sumpter will be when they murder Donald Trump. And they will. Oh, they'll claim he just died or some such. The media will tote the line, never questioning.
But he's a dead man.
“Meanwhile, it is likely that the search warrant is illegally overbroad and thus the search was illegal, as well as the fruits thereof, i.e. the items taken.”
All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:
a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;
b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;
c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or
d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.
Any government or Presidential record created from the day Trump was sworn in to the day he left office?
The government creates millions of pages of documents a year, including such things as tax forms, military handbooks, orders for everything imaginable, etc. if they found his tax returns, they were seizable both as government published documents and Presidential Records. This description pretty much includes anything that Trump might have from his 4 years in office.
Here are my thoughts:
- they are still pretending that this is about Presidential Records
- it very likely is primarily about seizing and documents that Trump might have had on Crossfire Hurricane. If you read the description of documents closely, I think that this jumps out at you. I think that the key here is that they seized any documents with classified markings, and everything boxed with them. What would those documents likely be? The documents he had ordered declassified, and weren’t, as well as any related to them, and thus stored in the same boxes.
I believe the point was that Obama took his time transferring his documents to the National Archives. Even now it may not be clear who actually has control of the documents. At this point, statements from the government (or the media, or the internet) aren't to be taken at face value.
I pray for Jeebus to televise the trial.
So are your commenters saying that Trump should have more rights than any other American, or the same? I’m not aware of anyone who’s handled information of this sort who believes they wouldn’t have been dealt the harshest of arrests, indictments and prosecutions had they done even a fraction of what Trump did.
Also, does quoting him as your blogpost title imply agreement? It seems to replace any neutrality, objectivity or editorial evaluation of his statement with an an endorsement of what he said while removing any critical input or scrutiny. Is that how we should relate to Trump?
Finally, I don’t see how complaints about Hillary Clinton’s private server vindicate the way Trump handled these documents. Unless you’re saying that, six years after he threatened to “lock her up” for her actions, he should have been even more careless than she was.
Freder Frederson said...
The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified. There is a process he has to go through and the classifying agency has an opportunity to object.
Yes he can.
Your statement is so obviously wrong and stupid. You leftists are just completely losing it now.
While I believe the FBI actions are beyond reprehensible (based on the supposed reason), Trump, as usual, isn't helping. What does 33 Million pages of anything look like? Is that 3,000 square feet of paper? 6,000? 10k? Seems like a lot. Seems like so much that it would require multiple trucks to move.
You folks that are in favor of DJT destroying our democracy have a lot of heavy lifting. The HRC apologists had it much easier. What was her crime for which she should be locked up? Oh yes, her email was part of email chains such that she received, on her private email server, three classified bits of info. And she sent zip, zero, nada classified info. For this, we are told by DJT loyalists, that she should have been locked up. There could be no more proof that DJT loyalists hate the America that was Founded by our Founders. Seems like now is the time to stand against these folks that are working to destroy what America's Founders created, why in any way encourage these America destroyers to carry on? What good can come from that?
"The FBI investigation found that 110 messages contained information that was classified at the time it was sent. Sixty-five of those emails were found to contain information classified as "Secret;" more than 20 contained "Top-Secret" information.[109][110] Three emails, out of 30,000, were found to be marked as classified, although they lacked classified headers and were only marked with a small "c" in parentheses, described as "portion markings" by Comey. He added it was possible Clinton was not "technically sophisticated" enough to understand what the three classified markings meant[111][112][113] which is consistent with Clinton's claim that she wasn't aware of the meaning of such markings.[114]
Clinton personally wrote 104 of the 2,093 emails that were retroactively[115][116][117] found to contain information classified as "confidential."[57][118] Of the remaining emails that were classified after they were sent, Clinton aide Jake Sullivan wrote the most, at 215.[115]
According to the State Department, there were 2,093 email chains on the server that were retroactively marked as classified by the State Department as "Confidential," 65 as "Secret," and 22 as "Top Secret."[119][120]
An interagency dispute arose during the investigation about what constitutes “classified” status when information acquired and considered “owned” by intelligence agencies is also independently and publicly available through “parallel reporting” by the press or others. In one reported instance, an email chain deemed by the intelligence community to contain classified information included a discussion of a New York Times article that reported on a CIA drone strike in Pakistan; despite wide public knowledge of the drone program, the CIA — as the "owning agency" — considers the very existence of its drone program to be classified in its entirety. Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs Julia Frifield noted, "When policy officials obtain information from open sources, ‘think tanks,’ experts, foreign government officials, or others, the fact that some of the information may also have been available through intelligence channels does not mean that the information is necessarily classified.”[121][5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy
At some point you DJT backing and thereby America-destroying folks switch from being dumb dumbs to being intentionally evil.
IMHO.
This is banana republic bullshit.
==========
y'all are missing the point >>> that USA is banana republic :is: the double secret fact deeply classified and algorithmic security on Twitter etc.
Iman
Codes are changed daily
Gotta love how he threw 'Hussein' in there : )
Since it’s been established that Trump declassified all info in his possession, the FBI raided his abode, brandishing rifles no less, to collect his future library contents. Pretty sure that’s not in their charter.
Obama spied on Trump. HOW is he still waling free??
Re Gusty Winds’ creative reading of the Gospel of Thomas – kudos!
The actual Gospel of Thomas ends with Logion 114: “’Mary should leave us,’ Simon Peter said, ‘because women are not worthy of life.’ ‘Now I will draw her to me to make her male,’ Jesus said, ‘to make her a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.’” So much for the idea that the Gnostics were more “pro-women” than the orthodox Christians.
This "Gospel" was composed at least 80 to 100 years after the four canonical gospels.
Why are Obama's 33 million records still being stored in a warehouse? And of course he has access to them. Who else? The archivists may have exclusive control of them, but they are lying if they claim they do not allow the president and his proxies and historians and perhaps members of Obama's terrorist Chicago cohort and their abettors access the records. That's how presidential records, and archivists, work. Obama's biographers, or rarher those colluding in his and his wife's lies, would ordinarily have access. Why don't we know what is in them? Why is there no index yet?
Clinton made sure some of his most damning records were sealed for decades. So do most presidents. Trump's behavior is no different from Obama's or Clinton's, or Roosevelt's or Johnson's or the Bushes. I bet a real reporter would find that all these men, like Hillary Clinton, kept classified records in their homes too.
But nobody asked. Obama in particular has a lot to hide, and the media and some prerry famous professors and authors have helped him hide it.
And the emails Clinton deleted or destroyed?
What was "Bleach Bit and hammers" all about?
It's not just that Clinton had an unauthorized server, it's that she destroyed government documents, isn't it?
"Since it’s been established that Trump declassified all info in his possession, the FBI raided his abode, brandishing rifles no less, to collect his future library contents."
How has Trump's declassification of the files been established? Just by his retroactive verbal claim, or by some means and at a previous time that can be or was documented? If he simply moved the documents to Mar-a-lago and did not inform anyone he was declassifying the documents, how would the FBI know they were declassified? I'm not asking in a snarky fashion, but seriously asking: has it been factually established that Trump had declassified those documents and that their declassification was known to others? If so, how was his declassification of those files documented for the record?
The last time anyone conducted a raid as egregious as this one on Mar a Lago was when Trump’s squad broke into the office of his own physician, the eminent gastroenterologist Harold Bernstein, to sweep up the files he had on Trump’s prescription for hair regrowth pills.
Definitely a matter of greater national security than this current kerfuffle.
Bornstein’s supporters were not zealous enough to call for violent action and attack FBI field offices, though. Despite the life-saving service he devoted to Donald Trump’s health, reputation and of course, his hair.
Some people never catch a break.
Achilles said:
"'Freder Frederson said...
"The President cannot just say, 'I declassify this document,' and they are magically no longer classified. There is a process he has to go through and the classifying agency has an opportunity to object."
"Yes he can.
"Your statement is so obviously wrong and stupid. You leftists are just completely losing it now.""
Are you sure of that?
hpudding: "The last time anyone conducted a raid as egregious as this one on Mar a Lago was when Trump’s squad broke into the office of his own physician, the eminent gastroenterologist Harold Bernstein, to sweep up the files he had on Trump’s prescription for hair regrowth pills."
The lefty lies flow like a river and ten are recycled time and time again.
There was no "squad", there was no break in, there was no sweep up of files.
Dr Bornstein violated patient client privilege, Trump no longer wanted him as his physician, Trump representative prsented himself at the office during regular hours to gather Trump's record as is the right of any patient, and certainly the President didnt have time to do that as he was busy fighting off about 17 New Soviet Democratical hoaxes at the time.
Not even CNN, which tried mightily, could come up with such a lie filled hot take as hpuddings and try to sell it. And lying about Trump was/is THE CNN business model.
I was going to give hpudding credit for at least spelling the doctor's name correctly, but he/she/xe couldn't even be bothered to get that right.
Congrats hpudding. For at least a brief moment, you have out-dumbed and out-lied gadfly and Inga to rise to the "top" of the democratical NPC class at Althouse blog.
No mean feat that!
Congrats on your "win". But you know what they say: it can be harder to stay on the democratical NPC "top" than it is to get there.
Good luck!
Finally, I don’t see how complaints about Hillary Clinton’s private server vindicate the way Trump handled these documents.
Trump had the authority, dumbshit. Hillary didn't.
At some point you DJT backing and thereby America-destroying folks switch from being dumb dumbs to being intentionally evil.
So what are you going to do about it, boy?
Make your best move.
The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified. There is a process he has to go through
I've seen/heard dozens of leftist repeat this mantra. Not a one as managed to cite the underlying authority. I'm guessing it is an executive agency, operating under executive authority. Would that make the executive the person in charge?
Robert Cook:
I read the CBS article. Quite lengthy. It simply says there is a procedure. Lawyers, stake holders, etc. Then it states the final say is the President. Much like Presidential pardons, There is a definite procedure. That procedure was created to protect the political capital of the President. Exactly like the declassification process protects the political capital.
There is no statute, no judicial ruling.
The President may not have followed the procedure, but that does not mean the President did not declassify documents. Classification is an executive branch invention. Judges have no jurisdiction
Sprezzatura said...
You folks that are in favor of DJT destroying our democracy
Leftists always lie, and always project.
It was Democrats who engaged in destroying our democracy, by illegally modifying election law, opening the door to massive vote fraud.
Then there's the whole jihad to "keep Trump off the ballot in 2024."
News flash: fighting to make it so people can NOT have a vote on something? THAT is what "destroying democracy" looks like.
The HRC apologists had it much easier. What was her crime for which she should be locked up? Oh yes, her email was part of email chains such that she received, on her private email server, three classified bits of info
Wow, that's an impressive amount of lying in such a short space
Every single email Secretary of State Clinton exchanged with President Obama was "inherently classified". Every single one of those on her email server was a crime, and a violation of national security.
That vile monster went to Moscow and exchanged emails with Obama over her private email server. This guaranteed that:
1: The Russians would learn about her server
2: They would crack it and steal every Emil stored there
Anyone calling what she did a "minor crime" is either a liar, or an ignoramus so pathetic as to never be worth reading.
Which are you?
He added it was possible Clinton was not "technically sophisticated" enough to understand what the three classified markings meant[111][112][113] which is consistent with Clinton's claim that she wasn't aware of the meaning of such markings.[114]
She went through a security briefing in order to get her clearance, and signed a buttload of documents saying she understood the rules.
And then she went and violated them all to hell. Doing things that HAVE gotten members of the US Military jail time.
The assault on our democracy was the massive amount of corruption engaged in to let her get away with it
At some point you DJT backing and thereby America-destroying folks switch from being dumb dumbs to being intentionally evil.
Everything you say about us is in fact a true description of yourself and your side
Freder Frederson said...
"President Donald Trump declassified the material then took evidence to Mar-a-Lago."
The President cannot just say, "I declassify this document", and they are magically no longer classified.
Yes, he can.
The fact that the people who worked for him didn't like that he could do that does not take that power away.
There is a process he has to go through and the classifying agency has an opportunity to object.
No, there isn't.
There is a process the President usually choses to go through. But nothing requires him to do so
And that "classifying agency" works for him. It says so, right there in the written US Constitution. Which is why he gets to override them.
The only real restraints on that power is the political cost he would face for using it.
And he sure as hell can't declassify stuff after he leaves office.
I'd ask if you like beating up straw men, but I already know the answer is yes.
Since he stated he did it before he left office, and you've offered not one shred of proof that he didn't.
Remember innocent until proven guilty? Oh yeah, as with democracy, the rule of law, and the written US Constitution, you own the Left hate due process for people you don't like
hpudding said...
So are your commenters saying that Trump should have more rights than any other American, or the same?
We're saying he should be under the exact same rules as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama
So, if you agree that what those two did should have got them in jail, then I'll be happy trade Trump in jail for both of them in jail for sentences at least as long as his.
If you're going to say that Hillary and Obama shouldn't be in jail, then neither should Trump
Robert Cook said...
"Since it’s been established that Trump declassified all info in his possession, the FBI raided his abode, brandishing rifles no less, to collect his future library contents."
How has Trump's declassification of the files been established? Just by his retroactive verbal claim
A refresher for you:
1: The rule is "innocent until proven guilty"
2: Everyone who's not a lying sack of shit acknowledges that while President Trump had the full power to declassify anything he wanted
3: Therefore says he did it, if he did it it would be legally sufficient, so the burden of proof is now entirely on you to show that he did NOT do it.
Have fun
Robert Cook said...
Achilles said:
Freder Frederson said...
"The President cannot just say, 'I declassify this document,' and they are magically no longer classified."
"Yes he can."
Are you sure of that?
Wow, Cookie. Did you even bother to read the headline? Here, let me repeat it for you:
Trump says "it was all declassified" — how declassification usually works
Do you know what the word "usually" means?
Here's a hint, what it does not mean is "this is the only way it can happen"
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