"... telling some children they’re not equal to others, and they’re the cause of other people’s problems. I think CRT has been going on under the radar for quite some time as well. Wokeness has been. Liberal indoctrination has been. This is a much larger issue than what a simple new gun law is gonna – it’s not gonna solve it. It’s not gonna solve it."
Said Ron Johnson, quoted by Chris Cillizza, in "This Republican senator thinks ‘wokeness’ is the cause of mass shootings" (CNN).
I don't like the headline, because Johnson didn't say "wokeness is the cause of mass shootings." He said there's a failure to teach "values." Values have been supplanted by these other things. The word "values" is vague, but I think it at least conveys the desire to accentuate the positive. A problem with teaching the lessons of CRT is that you're inculcating children with negativity: It's a bad old world, kids — hatred larded into everything. That might explain why some of them hit the chaos of adolescence and veer into nihilism.
But Cillizza might not have written the headline. He riffs a few lines. Let's read:
Look. It’s absolutely worth discussing guns in a broader cultural context. But the idea that Johnson appears to be pushing that critical race theory and “wokeness” sit at the root of the problem badly misses the point. Rather than acknowledge – as the facts bear out – that this country has a gun violence problem, Johnson is instead falling back on a Trumpian hobbyhorse: That political correctness is somehow to blame. The Point: Debate the influence of “wokeness” on our culture. Fine. Just don’t do it as a way to explain what happened in Uvalde.
Maybe this article needs more of the transcript. Where did Johnson purport to "explain what happened in Uvalde"?
And it would be so easy to throw Cillizza's low-quality reasoning right back at him. Here's my rough rewrite in the style of Cillizza: The country is losing its foundational values, and Cillizza is falling back on a liberal hobbyhorse: That guns are to blame. You can debate the influence of guns on our culture, without presenting them as the entire explanation for what happened in Uvalde.
I mean, if the point is that Johnson is too knee-jerk ideological and crudely simplistic, well, so is Cillizza.
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Althouse- I appreciate your fair mindedness here.
Thank you.
I don’t believe manners are stressed much, either.
Are values and manners kissing cousins?
It's a war of words debating whose words resulted in words not being used instead of violence.
Words are already a domestication. What's not heard is other words, say along with CRT in the schools. CRT is easy to defeat if it is allowed to debate it.
Great analysis. A perfect example of people talking past each other.
Serious Questions
is it OKAY? for someone to believe different things than you? Or are their different beliefs BAD?
is it OKAY to punch a NAZI in the face?
is it OKAY to punch a Trumpster in the face?
is it OKAY to punch a Bully in the face?
[please repeat these with SHOOT instead on punch]
Are Antifa GOOD people? What about people that think there are only 2 sexes?
Should Ukrainians be killed? What about Russians? What about Republicans? Democrats?
I just spent a week out in Wyoming with my woke nephew (from Chicago)
He spent the week informing people in Wyoming how the world worked (Especially Oil politics)
{my fishing guide said to me at the end of the day:
"Your nephew sure likes to fight, don't he?"
And i told the guide my nephew was So Stupid he didn't realize he was using fighting words
}
I tried to explain to the nephew, that
a) people in Wyoming have different Opinions than he did
b) people in Wyoming have GUNS, and that he was Likely to get shot
The nephew told me not to worry because he wasn't questioning their opinions, only their facts
and that Besides... it would be illegal for them to use their guns
To the extent that young people (some young people) have values, they are the WRONG F*cking values
Here's a Thing, that you WON'T HEAR in schools today:
Sticks and Stones, can break my Bones; But Words, will never hurt me
These school shooters? and their Bullies? How much violence* was going on BEFORE the shooting?
violence* please read Thing at top of post
Go talk to this kid's school counselors and teachers. Not one of them will be surprised at what happened. Everyone knew this kid was capable of doing something like this, but the system failed him and us.
"That might explain why some of them hit the chaos of adolescence and veer into nihilism."
Personally, I suspect the root cause is the effect that social media and the ubiquitous phones have on vulnerable children, but "... telling some children they’re not equal to others, and they’re the cause of other people’s problems" likely exacerbates the problem.
Analysis seems very true except it rests on the supposition that there are two sides to be discerned when two people are disagreeing. Then, too, I wonder how the boy got that expensive gun, whether selling drugs comes into it, whether the unsecured border comes into it.
"Rather than acknowledge – as the facts bear out – that this country has a gun violence problem,"
We do have a gun violence problem. We also have a problem with violence of all flavors. We are a violent country.
As National Review's Kevin Williamson (I know he's unpopular with some here) keeps pointing out, we do shoot each other at much higher rates than do Canadians or western Europeans. We also stab each other, club each other, and beat each other to death with fists at a much higher rate.
Guns sure do make it easy, though, as they are designed to do. I support gun ownership by the law-abiding and mentally sound. But it is disturbing to me how many nutcases find it trivial to acquire these very effective tools because they weren't clinically or legally proven to be nutcases yet.
Most of the lefties talking about guns have no idea of what they say. Background checks, for example, are universal. Anybody bought a gun recently ? Of course none of them have. A mass shooting in Illinois a few years ago, by a fired employee was done with a gun legally purchased by the shooter who had a felony record. The state had never updated the background check data base.
The Uvalde shooter had been noted for some time to be angry and maybe ready to explode. I suspect we will learn of missed warnings, just like the Buffalo shooter and the Broward County shooter. People don 't just "snap." The psychotic kid that shot Gabby Giffords had a mother who worked for the Pima County Sheriff and who hid all the complaints about her son.
As a card-carrying member of the School of New Journalism, Chris Cilizza is a fully qualified mind-reader and knows exactly what (if anything) Ron Johnson is thinking. This makes it easy for him to write his deeply insightful articles. No interview required (although he usually does one for appearance’s sake).
Cillizza is a simpleton. This is not new. He's proven himself to be a light thinker, a group thinker, over and over again, through the course of years on both TV and in WaPo. He's more or less a cheerleader for any current leftist view of the world. He brings nothing to the table, nothing for me to chew on and gain an 'aha! moment'. I'm fine listening to the other side of an argument if the other side actually brings something to the table. He's like the friend you invite to a group pot luck dinner and he brings bare hands and a smile.
I wrote about this in a long comment the day after it happened. It IS about the losing of our way as a society. It most certainly and obviously is. I cannot believe the obtuseness of our media class, our political class, our talking heads. We've always had guns. A lot of them. But we have never had as much disregard for law, for order, for respect of life, for respect of others, for respect of our nation and it's institutions than we do now. There are many reasons for it, but the guns in my home are not the reason this mentally ill kid was left to his own devices, with no adult directing him properly or getting him the necessary care. No one, not from his own home, through to the local police, school administrators, friends, people who read his social media output- no one did anything. Why? Because we're all so inured to what we see every day in every city and town. We don't even think anything is out of whack anymore until it hits us in the face.
Now everyone is shocked. And the people who need to do their homework in order to better inform the citizenry, our "Journalists", are simply running around spouting Democratic Party talking points that this 'blood is on the hands of Republicans'?
How can I take anyone seriously who is saying that? I cannot. And that is why we cannot even start to have a conversation about this. If someone can objectively look at life in America today- from San Francisco to Uvalde, Chicago to Baltimore, Seattle to New Orleans- and tell me that we're not devolving, then they are refusing to acknowledge reality. We are asking our kids to grow up unmoored to anything. Want deodorant? Fine. Just walk into a Walgreen's in San Francisco and take it. Someone says something about your shoes and you live in Chicago? Fine. Just shoot him. F*** him. Read something on social media and you want to get back at someone for their views? Fine. Just get a mob going to get them booted out of school. Just found out you're pregnant and didn't know the first thing about birth control? No worries. Abort. Nothing to it. Did someone misgender you? Seriously- you need to do something bad to that person. Post on social media that he is a racist. Or accuse him of rape. That should destroy his life. No worries.
I've not scratched the surface. You think another background check law is going to change the course of what happened? They had background check laws in place. Laws are only good if people accept and follow them. All of the people- including the ones paid to enforce them.
Anything that takes the heat off the NRA must be true.
Speaking of being “knee-jerk ideological and crudely simplistic” I was slandered in that way late In yesterday’s long discussion about the LEO in Uvalde. I am re-posting the response I just submitted there in case it was too late to add to the thread. It is still relevant to the subject at hand.
Inga the Internet know it all writes to me specifically, “You would be among the cowards who were armed to the teeth, hesitating, waiting as the clock ticked by and more children were being killed, fretting about how much personal danger you would be in. Shame on you and those “good guys with guns” who act and talk a big game until called upon to act.”
I never claimed to be a well-armed “good guy with a gun,” and I wrote nothing to be ashamed of. It truly sickens me to see these cops slandered by you and others with no certainty of the actual facts. So much was reported in error already I find it strange you’re so cocksure in your asinine opinions. As you are with this one directed at me.
At age 18 I saw my friend Mitzi approaching the bank to put in her deposit, which was unfortunate because my friend Bryan and I had just seen two guys with shotguns try to rob another depositor. We yelled to her to warn her and she avoided being robbed but we drew some unfortunate attention from the robbers. I was unarmed and acting on instinct. Sheriff deputies showed up while Bryan and I were being pursued by the robbers and they pled guilty after we testified at the preliminary hearing. (Google People vs Michael Coon et al 1980 to see their plea.)
This I am recounting not because I or Bryan were/are particularly brave. We all have our moments of bravery and cowardice. But I learned that day that in true emergencies my brain slows time down allowing me to see and react to things much better than everyday life where I tend to be clumsy and hesitant. It was reinforced soon after when the car in front of me caught fire. California has given me several occasions in which that calmness served me and those around me well: earthquakes, brush fires, evacuations, near-drownings, motorcycles falling from the sky etc. I can’t explain. It’s a gift from God. It really only happens in life and death situations but I know enough now to believe that it is not common. The Flight 93 guys had it. They were also unarmed. I think many have this potential. Maybe it’s a fight or flight thing.
So while I try to avoid saying what I would have done in a given situation I do at least have a track record and two friends with children who might have lost them if I didn’t save them from drowning. You slandered the wrong guy Inga. For what? Did you even have a point?
Maybe educators should re-think their intentional demoralization and emasculation of American boys and young men. That might make a difference.
We were at a HS graduation this week, and the JR ROTC paraded the colors, then the National Anthem was sung. It seemed like no one under 30 or so knew what to do. Disheartening. Same HS my step kids, and one of their spouses went to. It was fun where he showed where he had driven (illegally, of course) across campus some 30+ years earlier in his first car. School is physically mostly the same, but with the formerly ubiquitous lockers pulled out, and a climbing wall added. The speeches were, of course, dumb. But the activities extolled were more politically correct. The girls in the audience were probably 30 lbs heavier than they had been 32 years earlier. And outside those on the field, almost no one had dressed up at all. Of course, we are talking an outdoor graduation in PHX in late May… but my father, and most of the other men in the audience, wore ties to my HS graduation.
What all of the school shooters have in common is the lack of a father. Fathers who do not stick around to raise their sons or, alternately, mothers who think fathers are unnecessary for raising a family share some portion of the blame. In either case, mothers and fathers are not acting in accordance with traditional values and their lack of values contributes to the problem.....Here's another problem: Some sick kid out there is watching all the grief and lamentations and thinking I could do that.
Listen to the exchange. It's maddening.
CRT: It's not just for schools. I've watched a few series on HBO and Netflix. The villain of the piece is nearly always a straight, white male. White cops are more often than not corrupt, racist, and brutal. Black cops, more often than not, are straight shooters who try to do the right thing... Racial and sexual minorities are usually ennobled and not embittered by their struggles. Any problems they have are not of their own making but of the oppressive society that surrounds them. Some exceptions, but Christians are mostly hypocritical or gubbible. Wealthy businessman are greedy and evil....Ricky Gervais made a few jokes about transexuals, but there is not much else on television that violates the canons of political correctness.
My theory about the leftward shift of the public school system is that they are staffed by one of the strongest interest groups in the Dem coalition: public school teachers. They are unionized government workers, insulated from consequences by their union contracts and captured school boards. As we have seen, they are some of the most leftist of those Dem constituencies.
I don’t think that a lot of them really like their jobs all that much. Things have probably gotten progressively worse, as more and more schools have shifted to brainwashing the masses, instead of teaching them the basics that they will need to succeed in our ever more complex society. And that may be why they are so determined to destroy this country from within, by, among other things, destroying many of our traditions, as well as faith in the goodness of this country. They typically don’t have the tools to be able to eject the troublemakers, and as a result very often have little control over their classrooms. So, the teaching ranks fill with time servers, hanging on until their overly generous pensions - indeed, pretty much only government workers get pensions any more, and that draws a certain type of employee.
A problem with teaching the lessons of CRT is that you're inculcating children with negativity: It's a bad old world, kids — hatred larded into everything.
You’re born a sinner or a saint.
One group can do no wrong, the other no right.
The progressive path and grade was cut with the double-edged scalpel.
One of my first thoughts was, “I bet there’s no father in that household.” Sadly true. Rarely discussed.
Here's a suggestion that might help lessen this problem. Since every school shooter was a young man without the presence of a father in the home, perhaps we should discriminate against such young men in the granting of gun licenses. Maybe the father should have to give written consent for the purchase of a gun for a son under the age of twenty-one. No Dad, no gun....Such a proposal offers a little give and take with liberals and conservatives. The proposal is supportive of the patriarchy and thus enrages liberals and limits gun ownership rights and thus causes equal pain for the second amendment believers.
Kevin @ 11:46: Bingo. It’s a caste system where one’s essential and immutable nature determine’s one’s status. This violates the American Dream in which, through effort and character, we can become anybody; and in which we ask only for a fair shot and the freedom to try. Instead we are condemned from birth and there is really no point in our trying to escape the Original Sin of White Male Privilege.
The beauty of this scheme, for the schemers, is that people don’t try, don’t resist, don’t question, and simply do as they’re told. The lack of initiative means less of an achievement gap between the truly incompetent and the merely depressed. This “equalization” is the New Equity, constantly overseen by the schemers. All power flows through them.
It isn't guns, it isn't CRT, it is culture. What does our culture say about what it means to be a man. Almost nothing good. Men are worthless, or worse, they are perpetuators of violence and evil. You can teach young boys that their value is in being protectors of the weak, or you can teach them that it's more fun to kill cops, steal cars and rape women. you can teach them that they are a force for good, or you can teach them that they are worthless. When a boy grows up, what message has he carried with him into adulthood? And who teaches him that? Who would be the role model for that boy as he grows up. That will determine what he becomes. Trace the backgrounds of every man and see what their foundational experiences were and see the connection between their behavior today and they upbringing they had. Then think about those men who are protectors and those who are abusers, between men who are afraid to act and men who risk themselves for others. Establish and foster the institutions that foster the right kind of men, rather than undermine boys from the very beginning because you want them to be more like women.
"We stopped teaching values in so many of our schools."
Who says it is the responsibility (or even the place) of our schools to teach values to children, other than requiring students to be polite and to abide by the school's rules of behavior and good manners? It is solely the place of those raising children--parents, other custodial adults (grandparents or other family members), or guardians--to teach values to their children.
Teachers should not be blamed or otherwise held responsible for the "values" their students may display in their lives, especially as they grow older. One might even give the children some credit for having agency, coming to their own conclusions about the world and developing their own sets of values.
Anything that takes the heat off the NRA must be true.
Ahh, the cheap and easy path taken again.
Nihilism is better than nothing.
"This country has a gun violence problem" is a classic misdefinition which avoids the actual problem and distracts with a side issue - guns.
Consider "this country has a problem with violent people". Do you see how it focuses us on the people being violent. Solve that problem and the "gun violence" will also get reduced while making everything better all around.
It frustrates everybody in the community of those that own and use firearms that many people consider themselves less safe when a gun is present, even if it is in a holster or case. We know that guns don't just go off on their own. They only fire by human action*. So we know that guns don't cause violence. People cause violence.
And, if you follow and agree with the above, consider also that those in power who are focusing on the guns and want to "remove them from society" also know that guns are not the cause of the violence. So ask yourself, why do they want to control the guns and keep them out of the hands of the people who are not violent? Why do they focus on the guns instead of the violent people? Who actually benefits by taking guns away from the law abiding? Do gun control laws actually keep the criminals from violating those and other laws?
The answer to those questions is why there is a 2nd amendment in our constitution.
*guns that fire without human action are broken. It can happen but is not common. Gun owners are aware that such could happen and follow appropriate safety rules when handling and storing firearms (very basic rules that even the young can follow) so that such an accident rarely results in harm. But, stupidity and negligence are aspects of the human condition that will always be with us. These sort of events, while tragic, are not the sort of things that are damaging society.
"As National Review's Kevin Williamson (I know he's unpopular with some here) keeps pointing out, we do shoot each other at much higher rates than do Canadians or western Europeans. We also stab each other, club each other, and beat each other to death with fists at a much higher rate."
Yeah, well. Diversity is our strength. Those Canadians and Europeans are weak, because they haven't got our Diversity. But they're working on it.
“To his credit, anchor Neil Cavuto pushed back, noting that "these shootings, Senator, were going on long before CRT and wokeness, right?"
Johnson would not concede the point.”
Speaking of values, who taught Ron Johnson his values?
"I don't like the headline, because Johnson didn't say "wokeness is the cause of mass shootings."
Do the MSM ever correctly represent GOP commentary?
Good on Althouse to express her dislike. But until the Althouses of America truly commit to opposing MSM BS and prog shenanigans consistently, the bad behavior will continue.
Mike (MJB Wolf)- not slander. Inga was expressing her opinion. She thinks you are a coward. I don't have an opinion on that, but you do seem to be a little thin-skinned. Move on already.
There is always a fine line between teaching and indoctrination, especially when dealing with impressionable young people. More and more the polarization of our politics is played out as teachers are left to do what they believe is right, but it is contrary to the public good, as defined by the parents
We have seen discussions that were once held at the college level migrate down to HS, the JrHS (middle school), and now elementary as the younger teachers were taught or indoctrinated when they were in school.
Robert Cook said...
"We stopped teaching values in so many of our schools."
Who says it is the responsibility (or even the place) of our schools to teach values to children, other than requiring students to be polite and to abide by the school's rules of behavior and good manners? It is solely the place of those raising children--parents, other custodial adults (grandparents or other family members), or guardians--to teach values to their children.
Teachers should not be blamed or otherwise held responsible for the "values" their students may display in their lives, especially as they grow older. One might even give the children some credit for having agency, coming to their own conclusions about the world and developing their own sets of values.
*************
What tripe.
CRT/DEI are blatant attempts to propagandize aka promote an ideology that puts forth the pernicious idea that whites are inherently evil.
It promotes racist "values", straight up.
Yet the schools bray on and on about how DEI is meant to foster "welcoming" and "inclusion".
Yeah. "Welcome to our school---you white racist bastard."
SNORT
Woman shoots and kills man shooting at a group of people with a dreaded AK. Counterfactual. The woman did no such thing. The gun did it.
Cook is correct that relying on schools to “teach values” is foolish and not the way we did it. But when most of us on here were growing up schools at least reinforced common American values like honesty and trying our best and politeness. Remember the best-selling book Everything I Learned in Kindergarten? It was true. Like the “sticks and stones” mnemonic someone else brought up here or in yesterday’s thread on TX, we taught kids to shake off insults and ignore stereotypes. Now schools teach hateful stereotypes and call it woke. Social graces are the lubricant that allow a diverse society to interact with little friction. I deal with every ethnic and religious (including non-religious) groups extant all the time and don’t hold or perceive grievance anywhere. People largely like to follow the Golden Rule. Is it too much to ask Big Government Education to at least refrain from inducing strife and petty grievances?
Predictably, when the perp is white--see Buffalo--whites are the issue. When the perp is a POC, guns are the issue.
What does it feel like to be so predictably lame?
JAORE said...
"Anything that takes the heat off the NRA must be true.
Ahh, the cheap and easy path taken again."
Easy. The kid ain't that bright.
Bob. Aren't those traits you mentioned also values? And yes. Teachers should reinforce those values at every opportunity. It isn't their place to teach moral relativity.
“One might even give the children some credit for having agency, coming to their own conclusions about the world and developing their own sets of values.”
Are there acceptable boundaries around those values, Mr. Cook?
I went to a Catholic school 2nd-12th. We wore uniforms, natural hair(boys cut above the ears and collars), stood when someone entered the room- said good morning/afternoon to this person, sat when they gave permission… common courtesy was always expected and reflected the care our teachers gave us. We had a sense of pride in ourselves.
I don’t think your definition of self is the same as mine.
No common ground. Just contrarian words.
But at least, Mr. Cook- at least you’re honest about it.
What is it exactly that the NRA does that makes some people blame them for mass shootings? The NRA does not make guns, or sell guns. None of the shooters have ever been members of the NRA or even attended NRA training (that I know of). The NRA does not oppose laws that forbid the insane or criminal from getting guns. What is it that makes the NRA especially guilty of gun crimes? It seems to me that it has just become accepted that they are. This idea needs to be re-examined.
CNN sets up Ron Johnson. What's new? They are masters at indirection and deception. I am glad Althouse takes the time to unravel how this sausage is made. But it is too bad they are so deceptive and deceitful that it takes such a prodigious effort. It's why they get away with it. Fortunately, more and more are getting pretty savvy about it now, in a less analytical way, for sure, but I believe many now see it well enough.
Could we say that "School shooting have increased in number as shotgun wedding numbers have decreased"?
Regards — Cliff
Yeah. "Welcome to our school---you white racist bastard."
Next year, my high school will have an African-American Studies class, a Chicano Studies class an Ethnics Studies class and a Woman's Studies class. Within a year or two, passing one of the first three will be required for graduation.
Gahrie @ 9:42: Let me guess that the curriculum of each of those “Studies” courses will be identical except for the name of the aggrieved group and some random “facts” about the history of their victimization. In other words, Marxist pedagogy whose only purpose is to “raise the consciousness” of yet another group; emphasize its differential treatment by an invisible system of oppression operated and enjoyed by Them ([whites][males][Christians][bourgeois/capitalists][etc]); and activate the group with poster-making seminars, marches, mob tactics and online vandalism.
Do let us know how that turns out.
In other words, Marxist pedagogy whose only purpose is to “raise the consciousness” of yet another group;
Well the man teaching he African-American Studies class is an openly avowed Marxist. (Which stuns me. He has a History degree. After the second half of the twentieth century, how can anyone who knows history be in favor of Marxism? More evil has been committed in the name of Marxism than fascism by a huge degree)
By the way we also have a MECHA club and they are trying to organize a Black Student Union.
"As National Review's Kevin Williamson (I know he's unpopular with some here) keeps pointing out, we do shoot each other at much higher rates than do Canadians or western Europeans. We also stab each other, club each other, and beat each other to death with fists at a much higher rate."
“Yeah, well. Diversity is our strength. Those Canadians and Europeans are weak, because they haven't got our Diversity. But they're working on it.”
If you are going there, then - people of European descent in this country Murder at comparable rates to people of European descent in Europe. Ditto for Asians. The bulk of our violence comes from our minority communities, and esp African American communities. Roughly half the gun fatalities in this country come from this maybe 12-13% of the population. Europe doesn’t really have this problem. Most of Asia is even more homogeneous, and thus without our African American violence problem.
We have a significant school shooting every year or two. But every weekend, and worse in the summer, places like Chicago explode in far worse violence. But it’s mostly black on black crime, with a smattering of black on white or Asian violence, so the MSM, supporting the Dem politicians (mis) managing these cities are silent.
Bruce Hayden @911: "Europe doesn’t really have this problem."
Europe did not used to have this problem. They have been importing it recently.
Dad was in and out of prison for various felonies. Mom is a drug addict. (She told an interviewer her son must have "had his reasons" and should not be judged.) Grandpa also is an ex-con. I don't think the schools -- which are unlikely to be very woke in small-town Texas -- can be blamed for his warped values.
His older sister went to an alternative school for "high-risk" students for her last two years, graduated and joined the Navy. The shooter, his schooling disrupted by the pandemic (and showing signs of meltdown) dropped out of school.
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