"Look, the idea that — it concerns me a great deal that we’re going to, after 50 years, decide a woman does not have a right to choose within the limits of the Supreme Court decision in Casey.... But even more equally as profound is the rationale used. And it would mean that every other decision relating to the notion of privacy is thrown into question. I realize this goes back a long way, but one of the debates I had with Robert Bork was whether — whether Griswold vs. Connecticut should stand as law. The state of Connecticut said that the privacy of your bedroom — you — a husband and wife or a couple could not choose to use contraception; the use of contraception was a violation of the law. If the rationale of the decision as released were to be sustained, a whole range of rights are in question.... who you marry, whether or not you decide to conceive a child or not, whether or not you can have an abortion, a range of other decisions — whether or not — how you raise your child — What does this do — and does this mean that in Florida they can decide they’re going to pass a law saying that same-sex marriage is not permissible, that it’s against the law in Florida?"
May 4, 2022
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Kinsley gaffe by Biden, later in the same speech:
"I mean, so the idea that we’re going to make a judgment that is going to say that no one can make the judgment to choose to abort a child based on a decision by the Supreme Court, I think, goes way overboard."
Definitely not Democrat-approved rhetoric.
Joe Biden is just a piece of shit. A dumb one too.
Roe supporters are just now starting to realize how pathetic their position is and that their infantile reactions are not going to sway the vast majority of people who do not want 2nd and third trimester abortions and people making money selling baby parts.
I believe the majority of the Court is inclined to say abortion is separate from other privacy issues because a human life or potential life is at stake. This is different from contraception. So to speak no one wants to get into whether IUDs cause abortion, or even the Pill. States that are restrictive, following France, will allow abortions up to some point: probably at least 14 weeks. All of this should have nothing to do with Lawrence, various permutations of sex, or gay marriage.
Like with managing Covid, it may not be wise to base public policy directly on "the best science," even if this were possible. Orthodox Jews are apparently somewhat inclined to accept if not welcome liberal abortion laws because of one case they are sure of: where there is a threat to a pregnant woman's life from the pregnancy, the pregnancy should be terminated. As long as there are women of child-bearing age, there are more kids where that one came from. This means thinking of the group, not just leaving it to the woman, and it makes some sense for Jews who have in fact faced threats of extinction. The farther you are from being in such a group, the less this argument applies--which means it is partly a matter of prudence.
a whole range of rights are in question.... who you marry, whether or not you decide to conceive a child or not, whether or not you can have an abortion, a range of other decisions — whether or not — how you raise your child
.... whether or not to get vaccinated.
Wherein the President once again elides the distinction between the questions, "Should legislators make a law saying ___?" and "Can legislators make a law saying ___?"
The Connecticut law was idiotic. Even Bork thought so.
Joe Biden is a typical liberal/leftist. For years the standard was: The president gets his nominee unless he's shown to be unethical/unqualified. Biden and Kennedy changed that because they didn't like Bork's judical philosophy.
Biden also thinks about the SCOTUS in the standard Liberal/Leftist way. The SCOTUS is a political body that exists to implement the liberal/left agenda. What the constitution actually says, or was originally thought to say, is irrelevant. Its just a 9 person super-legislature that strikes down any federal/state law it doesn't like. Biden likes Abortion, so the SCOTUS should dictate that its legal.
If the liberal/left Party line was Pro-life, Joe Biden would be saying the opposite. He, simply doesn't care what the actual case law/constitution actually says. The whole point is to get what he wants through the judges. And if the judges disagree, then they're invalid and should be replaced.
BTW, I'm still not convinced this will happen. I'm almost 99% sure this is a fake out but if it does happen, you can thank Trump. Because Jeb - if he won - would NEVER have appointed 2 judges that would overturn Roe v. Wade.
I think a lot of conservatives would be willing to talk about adding the right to be left alone to the Constitution.
Some major re-writing of history there. Most absurd, perhaps, is the notion that Joe Biden ever had the mental capacity to debate Robert Bork.
Biden has a tell….when he pauses and says “anyway” it means he’s lost his train of thought.
He says it a lot.
Plessy v Ferguson was settled law for nearly 50 years too, does that mean it shouldn't have been struck down?
My first thought was.......There's no video??? It's a transcript from the White House??
Joke BiteMe couldn't string that many words together coherently. There is NO-WAY-IN-HELL that he remembers comments made to Robert Bork 35 years ago. That's a stage managed transcript.
"Klepto- Klepto- Klepto- Klep-tocracy". I can find video of that debacle.
Yes, Biden, with his borking of Bork, is the father of this seditious leak from the Court to corruptly intimidate the justices and influence the outcome, and father of much of the rest of everything that is wrong with politics today.
According to the New York Times:
" [in 1981] with an anti-abortion president, Ronald Reagan, in power and Republicans controlling the Senate for the first time in decades, social conservatives pushed for a constitutional amendment to allow individual states to overturn Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruling that had made abortion legal nationwide several years earlier.
Support came not only from Republicans but from a 39-year-old, second-term Democrat: Joseph R. Biden Jr.
The bill never made it to the full Senate, and when it came back up the following year, Mr. Biden voted against it. His back-and-forth over abortion would become a hallmark of his political career."
Joe has always needed someone to tell him what to think, at any particular moment.
Here's a point few understand = the Supreme Court isn't supreme.
Take a look at the Supremacy Clause to see what isn't there. Namely, Supreme Court opinions. Its opinions are not "law" as that term is defined in Article II.
The leak has given us a silver lining. The left won't be able to crank it up a second time, in June, when the actual opinion is published. Washington Redskin Warren won't be able to screech any louder the second time.
We have constitutional rights passed through the democratic process, every one voted on by representatives elected by the people. We have rights granted by a temporary majority of unelected justices. Those antidemocratic rights are subject to revision whenever a new majority so decides.
The first thing Sen Schumer and Rep Pelosi should is draft a new constitutional amendment to make abortion, like the freedom of the press, a constitutional right.
OMG, a bad Supreme Court decision can become a slippery slope leading to vast, authoritarian overreaching government control over American lives!!! Thanks for the warning, dementia Joe!
Where were you for the past 50+ years of having this screamed in your face during every Judiciary hearing on every judge appearing for confirmation hearings?
Bring on the Bible Bangor Kulturkampf. Go after gay marriage trans rights voters rights, civil rights etc, etc.
I can see the Blue Tsumami engulfing the nation in a quen es mas holier than though one up man ship. Ozzie and Harriet returns? Or will it result in Ricky Nelson's last plane ride?
Just ordered a 10-lb bucket of Orville Reddenbachers gourmet kernels.
"I think a lot of conservatives would be willing to talk about adding the right to be left alone to the Constitution."
Brandeis, Olmstead v. US (1928),
“The makers of our Constitution undertook to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness. They recognized the significance of man’s spiritual nature, of his feelings and of his intellect. They knew that only part of the pain, pleasure and satisfactions of life are to be found in material things. They sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions and their sensations. They conferred against the government, the right to be let alone—the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.”
"Kinsley gaffe by Biden, later in the same speech...."
It's not a gaffe. He is a Catholic and believes the unborn is a human being. He also does not believe government does not have the power to impose that belief on others.
"Biden has a tell….when he pauses and says “anyway” it means he’s lost his train of thought."
I think he said "anyway" because he started to say "almost word for word" and decided not to say that. It was a sensible decision because he might be asked to say exactly which words were the same. Anyone pointing to any differences would be able to refute him.
"He is a Catholic and believes the unborn is a human being."
Trolling, right?
Slow Joe is operating at top speed here.
Buckle up, folks. We are in for a bumpy ride.
"He also does not believe government does not have the power to impose that belief on others."
Double "does not", I think you mean he believes in limited governmental power...but it must only be in this case...
Fuck Brandon.
PowerLine blog embedded the entire video statement here:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/05/dementia-joe-does-roe.php
(Cut and paste if you wish, I don't usually present blind links so that those triggered by conservative ideas can avoid these sites)
Biden thinks that if Roe is gone, that "the maga crowd is so extreme that they could pass laws that lgbtq kids can't be in classrooms with other children." Where is that disinformation Czar?? Talk about scare tactics. WHEN are they going to tape his mouth shut?? I see a lot of tin foil hats made into pussy hats with this one. https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1521872333476085768?
Who wrote that, I wonder.
Ann- At the same time, government should not have the power to force people to live in a community that sanctions murder in their eyes).
madAsHell
Unless there's video I'm going to say he was reading from prepared notes and can't follow the ideas written in front of him.
Ms. Althouse, ma'am. At this stage I'm pretty sure that the only thing our president believes in is tapioca.
@Lloyd: "Orthodox Jews are apparently somewhat inclined to accept if not welcome liberal abortion laws because of one case they are sure of: where there is a threat to a pregnant woman's life from the pregnancy, the pregnancy should be terminated. As long as there are women of child-bearing age, there are more kids where that one came from. This means thinking of the group, not just leaving it to the woman, and it makes some sense for Jews who have in fact faced threats of extinction." This is not an accurate description of the thinking of any Orthodox Jews I know.
But that's okay. We all know this is a complex nuanced issue. The absolutist positions are no more sensible than the ones that accept gray areas.
Biden and Kennedy changed that because they didn't like Bork's judical philosophy.
The funny thing is, Bork's replacement was Scalia. Bork died in 2012, Scalia in 2016. If they had just gone with Bork, Obama would have had the chance to replace Bork.
Be careful what you wish for.
I've made the similar argument for the impeachment of Clinton. If Clinton had been impeached or resigned, Gore would have been able to distance himself from Clinton and likely would have won the 2000 election handily. But democrats first instinct is to fight.
The left brought this on themselves. Remember "safe, legal and rare?" Late term abortion, which is sliding into infanticide (than you Dr Northem) has shifted public opinion.
The important right to privacy. I hear the idea of such a fundamental right. But it does not seem to be in the Constitution. I'm sorry about those who are sad about that. Fix it, or deal with writing laws that reflect your views.
Our president is quite the blithering idiot
I have more fundamental questions: what is this thing called a 'woman'? Men today can be pregnant (Bill Gates/Elon Musk/Emoji). What is this thing called a 'child'? Does this child have a right to privacy, as those around it deliver life-changing puberty blockers? All children must have the full privacy rights of adults.
All humans must treated identically as adult males.
Draft "women" for the military! Draft pregnant people now! Draft babies too! Military service for all!
The slippery logical slope done slipped into incoherence.
Liberals are constantly suggesting that stabbing a baby in the neck is just like living with your grandmother or using a condom. You can't outlaw one without outlawing the other.
Pro-lifers: We need to stop killing babies.
Leftists: You want to outlaw birth control!
So that's always been a dishonest argument.
The ideology of federal supremacy over all aspects of life (not just enumerated and implied powers) is based upon the notion that the electorate that gave us our state elected officials is not just incapable of acting in a civilized way, but incapable of correcting the errors that it might make. This is an ideology predicated on the existence of a qualitatively better class of human beings who can, using stare decisis, define for all time the guidance needed to implement the standards necessary for civilized life.
There is no qualitatively better class of human beings who can fulfill such a function. There are just people more closely situated to, and whose values are in alignment with, those in national scale power. It's elitism straight up.
Of course, to be fair, maybe my views are based upon my sense that I'm not in the elite. Would I feel differently if I had a better resume? Or would I have a better resume if I felt differently?
If you want to discuss the history of "substantive" due process: it's never applied to commercial transactions since Lochner. Abortion is a commercial transaction. So it's weird, and dishonest, to pretend like this is about "family relationships" or "what's going on in a bedroom."
Abortions cost money and as such can always be regulated. When the leftists try to pass a federal law protecting abortion clinics, they will rely on the commerce clause, thus acknowledging that abortion is an act of commerce.
If the Supreme Court was honest they could have made that distinction, and said that their line of cases was only in regard to free abortions that were outside of commerce. Instead the Supreme Court created a billion dollar abortion industry, and they were in charge of regulating it.
Biden is a Catholic who supports abortion. That is, he is a faux Catholic, or a lapsed Catholic, or a lying bastard Catholic.
Bork's replacement was Scalia.
No, Bork's replacement was Kennedy. And Kennedy was the vote that saved Roe.
This is why the left tried to "bork" Thomas and Kavanaugh, too. And the attacks got more desperate and savage as time went on.
"Double "does not", I think you mean he believes in limited governmental power...but it must only be in this case..."
Sorry. My sentence needs an edit, but I can't do that. Please read it to mean what you know I meant. Thanks.
Did Florida ban gay marriage and I missed it?
Bork's replacement was Scalia
No. Bork's replacement was first Douglas Ginsberg, then Anthony Kennedy.
Bork's replacement was Kennedy. And Kennedy was the vote that saved Roe.
This is why the left tried to "bork" Thomas and Kavanaugh, too.
The left bitches about Merrick Garland and RBG and how Republicans "stole" the Court and so any overruling of Roe is illegitimate.
If Bork had not been borked, Roe would have been overruled 30 years ago in 1992 in Casey.
Bork is part of the reason we got Trump. Conservatives remember the way Bork was treated and haven't forgiven it.
The transgender spectrum is trendy, and political congruence ("=") is a means to an end with forward-looking consequences. A principle of the nominally "secular" Pro-Choice "ethical" religion of selective, opportunistic avoidance, not limited to the the wicked solution a.k.a. planned parent/hood a.k.a. reproductive rites a.k.a. [elective] abortion practiced by the Progressive Cult, Corporation, Clinic, etc. And what better way to handle psychopathic individuals than to pull an emanation from a penumbra and inculcate a belief in a Choice that the can if they can get away with it (e.g. "privacy"). One step forward, two steps backward.
Abortion is a commercial transaction. So it's weird, and dishonest, to pretend like this is about "family relationships" or "what's going on in a bedroom."
Antifa[mily]
Brandon explains Roe and Casey with his customary precision and eloquence. I am in awe.
[please use your biggest sarc font and Ferrari-red ink]
It's not a gaffe. He is a Catholic and believes the unborn is a human being. He also does not believe government does not have the power to impose that belief on others.
As I interpret Biden's position, it seems like he believes that abortion is murder.
As a Lutheran, I do not share that belief, although I believe that there should be sensible restrictions on abortion.
Scott Johnson at Powerline linked a Yale Law Review article from 1973 The Wages of Crying Wolf that discusses Roe's attempt to ground its reasoning in the Griswold right to privacy. TL;DR, it doesn't stand up because Griswold was limited to the criminalization of the use of contraceptives, discovery of which raises implications for the Fourth and Fifth Amendment guarantees against unreasonable searches and self-incrimination rather than finding a right to use contraception. Roe can find no such Constitutional provisions for grounding a right to an abortion. Bork's criticisms of Griswold do seem unfair in this light but the article reveals that even someone broadly sympathetic to Roe finds that Griswold doesn't give it that much support.
Scott Johnson at Powerline linked a Yale Law Review article from 1973 The Wages of Crying Wolf that discusses Roe's attempt to ground its reasoning in the Griswold right to privacy. TL;DR, it doesn't stand up because Griswold was limited to the criminalization of the use of contraceptives, discovery of which raises implications for the Fourth and Fifth Amendment guarantees against unreasonable searches and self-incrimination rather than finding a right to use contraception. Roe can find no such Constitutional provisions for grounding a right to an abortion. Bork's criticisms of Griswold do seem unfair in this light but the article reveals that even someone broadly sympathetic to Roe finds that Griswold doesn't give it that much support.
gspencer said...
Here's a point few understand = the Supreme Court isn't supreme.
>>>> Sez you
"Take a look at the Supremacy Clause to see what isn't there. Namely, Supreme Court opinions. Its opinions are not "law" as that term is defined in Article II."
>>>Supremacy clause: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.[10]
>>>Also, explain this, in Article III: "Section 1. The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court,..."
Sec. 2: The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;
>>> what does "judicial power" mean to you?
>>>where is "law" defined in Article II?
>>> Read Marbury V. Madison, which has has been settled law since 1803.
https://sites.gsu.edu/us-constipedia/marbury-v-madison-1803/
"Marbury v. Madison (1803) was a landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that established for the first time that federal courts had the power to overturn an act of Congress on the ground that it violated the U.S. Constitution."
>>>If you still want to defend your quixotic opinion, go right ahead.
Frank said...
We have constitutional rights passed through the democratic process, every one voted on by representatives elected by the people. We have rights granted by a temporary majority of unelected justices. Those antidemocratic rights are subject to revision whenever a new majority so decides.
The first thing Sen Schumer and Rep Pelosi should is draft a new constitutional amendment to make abortion, like the freedom of the press, a constitutional right.
**************
They can "draft" a proposed amendment 'til the cows come home, but the Constitution itself lays out the procedures for their passage:
https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-amend-the-constitution-3368310
So, for starters, Pelosi and Schemer will need 2/3 of BOTH the House and Senate to approve the proposed amendment, and then ratification by legislatures in 3/4 of the states.
Think they've got that kind of support?
Ann Althouse said...He also does not believe government does not have the power to impose that belief on others.
It's impossible for that to be true since Biden obviously does believe (as everyone obviously does believe) that government has a right and a duty to prohibit murder. Which is what we're talking about if we believe the fetus is a human being.
I think our good President has not read the draft opinion (or had it read to him).
Cut and paste if you wish, I don't usually present blind links so that those triggered by conservative ideas can avoid these sites.
Thanks a lot! Not. It's a semi-pain to copy and paste on smart phones such as iPhones. But all anyone has to do to see what a (followable) link goes is a) hover your mouse over it on a laptop, or b) hold your finger on it on an iPhone (turn off auto preview). Thus there's no problem “avoid[ing] those sites” — but there is a problem (or rather, an impediment, shall we say) if followable links aren't provided. So please — don't do me any such “favor.”
Biden is a racist prick.
Now let's hear him explain why he tried to destroy a black man...
'It's not a gaffe. He is a Catholic and believes the unborn is a human being. He also does not believe government does not have the power to impose that belief on others.'
Bullshit. He is a liberal first and a Catholic second.
He does not believe in governmental restraint.
He sure as hell believes in curtailing 1st and 2nd amendment rights.
Rights that, unlike abortion, are actually in the constitution.
One good thing about the Biden clan. Hunter did not force his stripper to abort his kid. Of course, that was a commercial action however you look at it.
I wonder how many people (present commentariat excepted) know that Judge Bork was an antitrust expert. Indeed, did Biden and his fellow Senators?
That's one aspect of the judicial nomination process that rarely gets mentioned. Not every Supreme Court case is about a culture war issue. Most of their cases are not about abortion or affirmative action or a hot topic, but about seemingly mundane issues that are just as important to society. Antitrust is a good example. Often such cases are too complicated or esoteric to put into a news blurb. But they can have tremendous significance. So when a judge like Bork (or potsmoker Ginsburg - remember him?) doesn't get seated, it has an impact that goes beyond the issues that most people get fired up about. Many such issues don't even fit a left vs. right paradigm. Criminal sentencing, for example.
Imagine if Bork had been seated on the Court these past many years. He would have had a larger-than-life impact in so many areas. It's a shame to our country that two-bit, shallow, deceptive mediocrities like Biden and Kennedy can sabotage such a great man. If only he had shaved his beard, and acted stupid - "I can't define a woman, I'm not a biologist" - he might have snuck through.
I think Biden should leave the presidency and become Solicitor General. After all he graduated at the top of a very prestigious law school! And as we can see from his quotes, his legal reasoning is impeccable. Go Brandon!
Start a tag for babel..
a whole range of rights are in question.... how you raise your child...
Wait, I didn't know Slo-Joe and the Dems believed parents had any rights in choosing how to raise their children?? What about vaccination decisions, CRT/sexuality/gender teachings in school, etc.?
"I think he said "anyway" because he started to say "almost word for word" and decided not to say that."
You're kidding, right? You know perfectly well that Biden was never that smart to begin with, and at this point he has roughly the mental acuity of a cabbage.
Joe Biden Wouldn’t Use Scare Tactics and Tell Abhorrent Lies For Political Gain, Would He?
Maybe Biden's not the most credible predictor of what the other party intends.
Abortion issue isn't about privacy in the strict individual sense, but state regulation of medical practice.
Like when states banned so-called homosexual "conversion therapy."
They got around it being a blatant ban on free speech by saying it was improper practice of psychology.
"Q Do you think this leak has irreparably changed the Court?
THE PRESIDENT: Beg your pardon?
Q Do you think that this leak has irreparably changed the Court? We’ve never seen this happen before.
THE PRESIDENT: [B.S. that completely ignored the question that was asked.}
"Bring on the Bible Bangor Kulturkampf. Go after gay marriage trans rights voters rights, civil rights etc, etc."
I am convinced the reason abortion is so divisive in the US is because the left's position is the most extreme possible, up to and including partial birth abortion, and they are unable to compromise one iota. The reason it's not divisive in European countries is because abortion on demand is basically restricted to the first 15 - 20 weeks, depending on the country. My European friends were astonished when I informed them of the facts of US abortion law. To illustrate the point, consider that the left wing bastion Sweden's abortion law is quite similar to the Mississippi law that precipitated this kerfuffle when it was challenged. In fact, the US Leftist position on abortion is basically considered to be barbaric in almost all of the rest of the civilized world.
That the Left is now agonizing over gay marriage and interracial marriage which is generally accepted by the Right as settled law all over the country is more evidence of their paranoia. One can't reason with delusional absolutists, so, why try?
Jo Biden says...
overturning Roe v. Wade could lead to LGBT children not being allowed in school classrooms:
"This MAGA crowd is the most extreme political organization that's existed in American history."
You thought the Know Nothing party was bad?
You thought the Confederate States of America were bad?
You thought the KKK was bad?
You thought the American Nazi party was bad?
You thought AnteFa IS bad??
NAH! they All pale to insignificance compared to "This MAGA crowd"
I listened to the bork hearings live. I laughed at Biden when he tried to tangle with Bork, he came off as an arrogant idiot who thinks he's smart. If you'd told me he'd become President in 30 odd years, I would given you 100-1 and bet you $100,000.
"If the Supreme Court was honest they could have made that distinction, and said that their line of cases was only in regard to free abortions that were outside of commerce."
Free abortions could affect the market for paid abortions, so still subject to the commerce clause. You will NEVER see them give that up.
I read big parts of Bork's antitrust book for work. It was already influencing jurisprudence before his nomination. Not that there have been many USSC cases since then.
Even more equally.
Ann --
Catholics don't believe that abortion is evil because the Church teaches that it is evil; instead, we understand that the Church teaches it is evil precisely because it is evil. The immorality of abortion is grounded in natural law -- the law written on the hearts of men. Don't believe me? Just ask a five year-old if it is okay for mommy to kill the baby in her belly.
My recollection is that your view is that abortion is indeed immoral, but criminalization would be imprudent. That is a perfectly rational view. Not all evils must be regulated, let alone criminalized. But the elevation of that prudential calculus into a constitutionally right is just rank sophistry. And to be clear, while opposition to the criminalization of abortion on the grounds of prudence is defensible (even if IMO tragically mistaken), opposition to criminalization on religious establishment grounds is just stupid.
Blogger Maynard said...
As I interpret Biden's position, it seems like he believes that abortion is murder.
As a Lutheran, I do not share that belief, although I believe that there should be sensible restrictions on abortion.
Which synod? There are liberal Lutherans and conservative Lutherans and differ greatly in beliefs.
Here is the link on C-span:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?519940-1/president-biden-calls-draft-abortion-opinion-fundamental-shift-american-jurisprudence
No sign of dementia here.
how you raise your child
I'll bet the people back at the White House got a good laugh out of that one.
"Kinsley gaffe by Biden, later in the same speech...." It's not a gaffe. He is a Catholic and believes the unborn is a human being. He also does not believe government [has] the power to impose that belief on others.
There are tens of millions of Catholics who know that an elected politician advocating for and in fact enabling the procuring of abortions commits a grave sin that results in the slaughter of innocent human beings. That Cardinal Wilton (DC) and Mons Koenig (Wilmington) have refused to excommunicate Mr Biden says more about these latter days' decadence in the Church than anything else.
The Supreme Court or Congress or both needs to figure out what’s in bounds and out of bounds for the 9th Amendment and decide if the 9th Amendment applies to the many states through the 14th amendment. I’d love to see the Supreme Court get committed to Liberty that expressly enumerated in the constitution. But I still don’t think abortion makes the list. A human lives and a human dies in an abortion. This is a homicide. It might be a justifiable homicide but that’s up to a legislature to codify and a court it adjudicate.
And there’s this open question on at point does life begin.
He’s a diffident question. At what age does equal protection under the law begin. I know a great many liberties begin at 18. But the right to life? When does equal protection of our right to life begin?
The President does seem fairly coherent in that link.
On abortion rights, both political parties claim public opinion is on their side. The Republicans argue that the majority of the population is pro-life in all circumstances. The Democrats claim that most Americans are pro-choice and even support laws that permit physicians to terminate the lives of newborn infants and to perform late-term abortions. Both sides are wrong.
I think, after ten or so years of haggling, abortion will be banned roughly after the first trimester everywhere in the country. But we will start providing greater reproductive health services to pregnant women, including free birth control and emergency contraception pills. Our politicians are being forced to talk to each other and compromise. And they're enraged...
As a Lutheran, I do not share that belief, although I believe that there should be sensible restrictions on abortion.
Help me out. You are getting into the semantical weeds here. According to your statement, Abortion is the ending of life, but not murder.
What biblical teaching is guiding you?
What an idiot and liar Biden is. He proposed legislation in the senate to reverse Roe.
I think the Supreme Court reversing? repealing? Roe v. Wade puts Biden in a different position than before. He can no longer say that "it's the law of the land" and that as a citizen and a federal politician he must accept it (though working to repeal it, or, at least, ignoring it) Now it's not law and he's advocating for it to be law again so now he is actually going right against Church teaching that an innocent human life is being destroyed and that this is wrong. Before Catholics had to speculate on what Biden "really" thought; now he's dropped the mask.
Spiros: "The Republicans argue that the majority of the population is pro-life in all circumstances."
I have never heard a republican assert such a thing.
Feel free to post a link or 2.
Biden is just doing the old slippery slope dodge, is he not? Think Joe or anyone among the pro-abortion side worries for a second that contraception is going to be banned because of this decision? No one seriously thinks that. And not because of some undefinable "right to privacy," but because the culture has shifted to a degree that any lawmaker in Connecticut or anywhere else who introduced such a bill would be laughed out of the room instantly. And of course, Joe had to drag Florida in at the end as possibly wanting to ban same-sex marriage. Sure, Joe. In your dreams DeSantis is stupid enough to try that, even if he wanted to which I see no sign of whatsoever. Meanwhile, all over the country schools are telling little girls they have to put up with people with penises in their bathrooms. I guess even for the most enlightened, the right to privacy has its limits.
No, Bork's replacement was Kennedy.
That's what I get for googling... I stand corrected. I remember him getting borked, but not who replaced him in nomination. I was only a teenager then though. Apologies.
We don’t get our rights to liberty all at once. It’s a graduated process. Once we’re 18, we get our constitutional rights but we still have to wait for things like the privilege to drink a beer.
Throughout, though, is the presumption that we have a right to equal protection under the law.
Another right we have that comes before our liberty is the right to our own life. In fact, the law recognizes the right of a child to self defense and defense of the lives of others prior to recognizing that person’s right to keep and bear arms. Murdering a child is treated as an especially egregious offense. Even neglect of a child can be felonious if severe. Those are actions by the government to protect the life of a person not yet old enough to vest in all their liberties.
At what point in our does our right to our own life become subject to equal protection under the law?
- Is that when we emerge from the womb? If so, some abortions occur after the living child is out of the womb and the child is either forcibly killed or neglected to death. Is that child subject to equal protection?
- Is it when the child could viably live outside of the womb? Medical advances are making that viability earlier and earlier.
- Is it when the child can feel or sense pain? Science suggests that occurs around 15 weeks.
- Is is when the child has a heartbeat?
- Is it when new DNA is created that designates a new life?
- Also, when does a mother carrying a child have the right to self-defense. Some abortions are self-defense because the child is putting the mother’s life at risk. The law allows for justifiable homicide and there are cases where abortion may be considered self defense. Prior to modern medicine, every pregnancy had a high probably of material death.
- What about if the mother didn’t consent to the conception because of rape? Does the mother’s right to life and liberty negate the child’s right to life because of the crime that created the life or placed the life inside the mother?
- What if the unborn child’s life is not viable because of some severe deformity or disease? Conversely, what if the child is medically viable but has some undesired trait like an unwanted gene - maybe a cleft pallet or Downs Syndrome? Or what if genes are isolated that predict the child might be gay?
- What about abortion for situations other than self-defense? What about abortion where the mother is not at any higher level of risk than another pregnant women?
These are deep moral questions that, frankly, advances in science make even more difficult. My answers to these questions have even greatly impacted by advanced in science.
I don’t trust legislatures to get these questions correct? But I trust our Court even less.
If Alito’s opinion holds in some format close to what was leaked, the responsibility for addressing these deep moral questions is returned to the people and their elected representatives. That’s imperfect and the solutions will be imperfect. But it’s more perfect than the Court deciding.
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