"That did little to slow him down, she recalled. Mr. Reffitt was also undeterred by larger projectiles fired by her partner and by pepper spray used by a third officer. At that point, Ms. Kerkhoff made a panicked call for help on her radio...."
Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls and larger projectiles and pepper spray would not stop a man? The ineffectiveness of this non-lethal technology would seem to strengthen the argument in favor of lethal technology. Elsewhere in the Capitol that day, lethal technology was used against Ashli Babbitt.
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NOW they're claiming,
that he entered the Capitol with the zip ties that he found Inside the Capitol ?
AND that he had a pistol?
a) funny that they never reported this before
b) funny that they didn't just Shoot Him Dead on the spot
He entered the capital building with a pistol? Highly unlikely. Hit with 40-50 pepperballs at short range? Let's see the hospital report.
It doesn't say how many of those projectiles hit the target. Adrenalin and body armor probably the rest. Pepper spray finally did the trick.
There is simply too much the public does not know about what happened that day. The crime is not what we do not know, but what our Government is holding out from us- including thousands of hours of video recordings showing what took place from various angles, in different parts of the Capitol. Why is the truth being hidden from view. If this is so clear cut, why not show it? And there are emails and texts- not only between Trump and his team, but between Pelosi and her people, days before January 6.
It seems to me that this was a play with two scripts. And we are only seeing a part of one of the scripts. Had Republicans maintained the House and Senate in 2020, none of this would even be taking place. So variable is the truth here.
In the meantime there is The Narrative. And we still have, as recently as yesterday, our Dolt in Chief telling the world how 5 Capital Police were murdered on that day. It's false on it's face. The one known murderer, Lt. Michael Byrd, who shot and killed Ashli Babbitt is free to go about his days. No questions. Nothing.
Reffitt does not appear to have gone inside the Capitol
Shauni Kerkhoff is lying.
Here's the link, where i got Reffitt does not appear to have gone inside the Capitol
Babbitt never should have been shot.
Why weren’t the BLM rioters treated the same way?
"Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls and larger projectiles and pepper spray would not stop a man?"
Less-than-lethal technology is always a compromise. Guns, knives, and arrows use simple speed plus sharpness to penetrate and cause shock and injury. Even they are often not effective, requiring multiple shots to stop attackers. This is a routine defense for the use (or arguably false perception) of excessive force and police overreaction.
Police handguns typically stop only 30% or 40% of people with one shot, and 10% to 35% are not stopped with multiple shots. This is with various guns.
https://www.tierthreetactical.com/analyzing-1800-shootings-which-caliber-has-the-best-stopping-power/
This video shows the chaos and uncertainty of an arrest with less-than-lethal technology, where a police officer accidentally shoots his partner with a Taser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNayQGlOe1M
Pepper spray requires skin, eye, and respiratory contact to have any effect at all. One might not experience much if wearing thick winter clothes (e.g., Jan 6), glasses, and a face mask (e.g., COVID). Or, if the wind was unfavorable. Or, if the police missed their target many times (which they often do). In any case, pepper will be less effective than a handgun and some percentage will continue indefinitely.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/238262#is-it-lethal
What a bunch of bull shit. She will get away with it though, because she is doing the bidding of Nancy Pelosi who caused this by not having the National Guard there like Trump requested.
Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls...would not stop a man?
My guess is, in all the confusion she must have grabbed the saltballs by mistake.
Do we trust their testimony? We should be able to see video of it, correct?
@Temujin, let’s not forget that an unconscious Rosanne Boyland was beaten to death by a female Capitol Police officer outside the Capitol building.
He claimed, without evidence…
Given the description, he sounds guilty as hell. I assume the description is false. Is this the first we've heard of anyone entering the Capitol with a gun?
And zip ties, wasn't that part of a debunked story, where someone found some police zip-ties inside?
Addendum to my earlier comments:
The Tippmann PepperBall launcher is a glorified paintball gun. It shoots relatively small 0.68" balls filled with a pepper compound. They break and become effective only after hitting something in a relevant location. To my eyes this looks like a feel-good device to satisfy mayors, police supervisors, and activists rather than anything likely to stop anyone. (It plainly failed to be effective in this case.) People use plastic shields for paintball combat sports, so again a heavy winter coat would limit the potential of pepperballs.
See a sample Tippmann product below:
https://www.ansgear.com/Home_Defense_Kit_1_w_PepperBalls_Tippmann_Storm_p/pbhdkit1-tippmannstormerelite.htm
All in all, this again points to the failures of D.C. and Capitol law enforcement. They didn't take the Jan 6 risks seriously, nor did they prepare effectively. That's not news.
Who unlocked and opened the doors? It would seem pertinent to having a factual narrative.
I note in passing that during the Kavanaugh hearings, protesters outside the Supreme Court and outside the Capitol were rendered incapable of insurrection by the simple act of keeping the closed, locked doors closed and locked. And I'd hope the Cap Police are now trained to shoot weapon-carrying insurrectionists on sight for any future incursions by Code Pink, Emily's List, or NOW pro-abortion protesters.
…and not to impugn the entire Capitol Police force but on that day. I’m certainly no expert but have had training from and alongside professionals at Sig Academy and other civilian first responders. Looking at video from Jan 6 I lost count of the violations of current safety and protection protocols from the Capitol Police…
…and apologies to you 1911 fans out there but I saw a bunch of janky old iron being pulled by those guys. That’s a dead giveaway for being old and behind on modern training.
I have seen reporting no gun was taken in as evidence.
No idea of the facts. But. Media reports should report facts. Has anyone seen facts concerning the gun?
One thing for sure, you can't believe anything in a NYT article. If he recorded himself as he entered the Capitol with zip ties and a pistol does that mean he made a video-recording of a pistol and zip ties he was carrying? If he did that while entering the Capitol, how can it "appear" that he never entered? Was he arrested there -- and was a firearm taken from him? If so, it will be in evidence at the trial, right?
So much vagueness in service of the narrative.
Excerpt from Biden's remarks yesterday in Wisconsin
Look, how would you feel if you saw crowds storm and break down the doors of the British Parliament and kill five cops, injure 145? Or the German Bundestag or the Italian Parliament?
The January Sixers event was part of the Russian campaign to destabilize America and further weaken NATO. I am 100% sure these people who were under a svengali spell of Trump were unaware useful idiots in Putin's War facilitated by Donald.
#GOPutin
The ineffectiveness of this non-lethal technology would seem to strengthen the argument in favor of lethal technology.
I am fine re-writing the rules of engagement, protecting govt from rioters. The rule change has to go downstream, to State and local govt.
And what about police on the beat? Are they required to allow antifa thugs throwing canned vegetables at them, with no response?
My point, DC elites have carved out "special circumstance" for themselves, that don't exist in current statutes. Congress critters think they are special and require heightened, punishment, vs, all the carnage that took place at the garden parties in honor of St Floyd.
Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls and larger projectiles and pepper spray would not stop a man? The ineffectiveness of this non-lethal technology would seem to strengthen the argument in favor of lethal technology.
You need to answer your own question- A pepper gun is a weapon to be utilized when deadly force is not warranted.
Does that strengthen the argument for lethal force, counselor?
Police are trained not to aim at the face, neck, groin, etc. so if the person you're trying to stop is wearing protection no greater than a heavy coat there's not much stopping power in the projectile itself, and people have different tolerances to the effect of OC spray.
It could also be the police are poorly trained and/or have bad aim but that's usually when you get a lethal head shot
Pathetic.
In the meantime there is The Narrative. And we still have, as recently as yesterday, our Dolt in Chief telling the world how 5 Capital Police were murdered on that day. It's false on it's face.
The government in charge certainly seems to be trying to muddy the waters rather than provide clarity in their courtroom arguments as well...
Shauni Kerkhoff is lying.
Everyone is lying.
that opening sentence - I have no idea who the "he" is / the "her" is.
Is the police officer a him or a her?
If I didn't have lots of better things to do with my time today, I would repost the dozens of comments on this blog over the past year saying that none of the rioters had guns.
First we’ve heard of this pepper ball repelling rioter. I still don’t see why he’s been held without for two years while other mostly peaceful protesters who assaulted cops and Feds defending courthouses were not even arrested or cited. And I have no reason to believe the propaganda from this crowd. I’m uninterested in their manufactured news, other than to note it could have been reported in 2020. They wasted too much time trying to blame Trump and track down grannies to suddenly demand my attention now when they (allegedly) have the goods on this random dude. Yawn.
If J6 was helping the D party then Joey softserve woulda mentioned it in his crappy monologue Tuesday.
saying that none of the rioters had guns.
hey? Jimbo? Any evidence that any rioters DID have guns? ANY? ANY at ALL
You've got a guy saying, afterwords; that he was carrying a pistol and small nuclear device
I believe Him, no more than i believe YOU.
As they always tell ME.... Pictures, or it didn't happen
Any Pix? Any? Any at All?
Reffitt is described as crazed. The zip tie guy from last spring was calm and reasonable, not crazed at all. Are they the same person? Because if they are, that's one more reason not to believe Kerkhoff's testimony.
Is there any evidence that this Guy even went in? I haven't seen any
They arrested him a week later, in Texas....
jim5301 said...If I didn't have lots of better things to do with my time today, I would repost the dozens of comments on this blog over the past year saying that none of the rioters had guns.
No need. We are sticking to that story right here in this thread.
Seriously, Jim5302; if you've got the time.. Post a pic of this Guy in the Capitol with a gun
Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls and larger projectiles and pepper spray would not stop a man?
As others have said; we don't know how many actually hit the target. Also, notice she is a from officer. Perhaps she was terminated due to an inability to master the tools of the trade.
tim maguire said...
Reffitt is described as crazed. The zip tie guy from last spring was calm and reasonable, not crazed at all. Are they the same person?
zip tie guy from last spring was INSIDE the Capitol (where he found His zip ties)
Reffit Guy, is a completely different person (a braggart, and a blowhard; who CLAIMED that he had a Pershing Missile in his pants)
jim5301 said...
If I didn't have lots of better things to do with my time today, I would repost the dozens of comments on this blog over the past year saying that none of the rioters had guns.
Posted below are is a link to every story I've seen before today that *any* of the non-LEO people in the Capitol on 6 Jan 2021 had guns.
.
Take the easier assignment Jim~ and just show us one credible report of this armed protester, hell ANY “armed protesters,” that were published between 1/20/20 and 2/20/22.
Wait. Are you saying it’s only little over ONE year ago? Shit. Sure feels like at least two.
Blogger Howard said...
The January Sixers event was part of the Russian campaign to destabilize America and further weaken NATO. I am 100% sure these people who were under a svengali spell of Trump were unaware useful idiots in Putin's War facilitated by Donald.
Inga, is that you ? I wonder if Howard is that stupid?
Did Shauni pass the lie detector test? Lets see the film. Otherwise it's bullshit. Even Howard knows that, which explains his muddled attempt at commenting logically.
I loved your liking to the AP story that claims Ashli babbitt deserved to be murdered. That's why when any blue city libtard gets murdered or raped I just laugh.
Can someone explain why it took 1 year to bring this man to trial? I thought the constiution provided for a "speedy trial". And what he did that was so bad? HE "advanced on the officers and disregard their commands" = you mean like 10,000 BLM supporters and Antifa did in 2020?
Did you know that all the Antifa that rioted, attacked police, and vandalized stores on Trump's inaguaration day in 2017, were given $14 million in compensation for simply being arrested and given bail?
Yet this man has been under indictment and possibly been in jail for over a year. Because our sainted Lords and Ladies of the US congress decreed it.
Wait, There's more
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/02/biden-doj-leaks-information-non-violent-j6-defendant-media-sent-attorneys-doj-furious-confronted-likely-fed-operative-carrying-gun-jan-6/
Pepperball is not one thing. There are several flavors of projectile and launcher.
PepperBall
It seems odd that traffic accidents generate pages of videos taken by car cameras, security cameras, doorbells, and phones ... but the protectors of US capital seem to have been blind and deaf. Of course, nobody believes they were either.
jim5301 said...
If I didn't have lots of better things to do with my time today, I would repost the dozens of comments on this blog over the past year saying that none of the rioters had guns.
Democrats do not care about anything except hurting their political opponents.
This includes honesty.
This guy lies in pretty much every post here.
After all this time, this is the first time I've read of a Jan 6 person having a weapon of any kind.
Why has this not been previously reported?
Also, there are very few women who should be police officers on the beat. I've seen too many in major cities that are 5'3" and borderline obese that could not possibly subdue a suspect without male backup or using lethal force.
It's just a fact...
Can anyone explain to me why 40 to 50 PepperBalls and larger projectiles and pepper spray would not stop a man?
Well, the headline says "she used a Tippmann PepperBall Launcher to fire 40 to 50 projectiles."
It doesn't say she actually hit him with any of them.
Howard said...
The January Sixers event was part of the Russian campaign to destabilize America and further weaken NATO. I am 100% sure these people who were under a svengali spell of Trump were unaware useful idiots in Putin's War facilitated by Donald.
#GOPutin
So it's true! Howard really is a GOP troll pretending to be in insane lefty!
The anti-mask antivaxxers campaign was another Putin op run by the Trump crime family designed to soften up the US before the Ukrainian invasion.
You people are so far on the wrong side of history. Your only excuse is mental illness and svengali suspectable Dunning Kruger effect.
If the Jan6 “insurrectionists” were people of color, law and order Althouse changes the channel.
I went on an Internet search for a "Pepperball Launcher". It's just a paint ball gun firing a "frangible plastic ball" with various substances inside.
I can understand why multiple hits from a pepper ball launcher are not going to stop, deter, or seriously impair an adult male with any level of fitness. You could fill it with CS and unless you hit him in the face, near his nose, it's not going to bother him. Fill it with paint, and yes it will leave an identifying.
OTOH, having once seen a rather obnoxious National Guard sergeant get "fragged" with a military CS grenade, I can testify that the CS grenade will stop a lot of people in the area--including the target. But you would not want to put a CS grenade in the hands of a slightly built female Capitol police officer. You give her a pop gun and guess what--it doesn't deter anybody.
"Elsewhere in the Capitol that day, lethal technology was used [illegally and unnecessarily] against Ashli Babbitt." There. Fixed!
An unsympathetic article in the leftmedia AP does nothing to change the fact that a cowardly policeman executed Babbitt for trespassing. The AP is simply maligning the dead to forward the political agenda of the Democrats. Pretty low even for leftmedia-swine.
BTW, the martyr bit is a leftmedia strawman. Babbitt is a victim of police overreacting, not a martyr. In order to be a martyr she would have to have been black and preferably a repetitive offender committing a felony.
Oh Howard…
My favorite joke in the world is that people against a forced medical procedure (that is not without risk) are on the wrong side of history. Thank you for the laugh. Cheers!
I'm not excusing the over-zealous prosecution, but there's at least 3 arrested people who have acknowledged they brought firearms to the Capitol grounds.
So....seems like this is a fairly stupid hill to fight on. State no protestors fired a gun, state no protestors brandished a firearm, state the only death was a protestor, etc.....but stating no one brought a gun seems like a fight that was setup to make Jan 6th arguers look stupid.
Blogger Howard said...
The anti-mask antivaxxers campaign was another Putin op run by the Trump crime family designed to soften up the US before the Ukrainian invasion.
You people are so far on the wrong side of history. Your only excuse is mental illness and svengali suspectable Dunning Kruger effect.
Howard badly needs an intervention. As far as History is concerned, we are on the normal side. You are on the loony side.
Big Mike, you are correct about Rosanne Boyland. I was thinking about her as I hit the 'send' button. I should not have forgotten, none of us should.
The Russians claim Putin’s urine stream is so strong it can cut through an uncooked steak.
Howard ate that steak.
He's denying he had the gun on him. He wasn't arrested at the scene. We'll have to see the government's evidence that he was carrying.
He also told the agents he had brought a “Smith & Wesson pistol” with him but “had disassembled it to comply with the law in Washington, D.C.”
So, he had a disassembled, non-functional handgun with him.
You can call that "armed", if you're an ignoramus and / or a lying sack of shit.
Unless you have evidence that it was in fact assembled and loaded.
We'll wait
TreeJoe said...
I'm not excusing the over-zealous prosecution, but there's at least 3 arrested people who have acknowledged they brought firearms to the Capitol grounds.
The claim in this case is he brought a disassembled pistol.
That's not "armed".
You got anyone who brought a loaded, working firearm? Links?
This is a link to more complete trial coverage. Prosecution is not claiming he was inside the building, but on the steps. They are trying to prove was part of a three percenter conspiracy to obstruct Congress.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/national/capitol-riots/a-mob-needs-a-leader-doj-puts-guy-reffitt-at-front-of-capitol-riot-on-trial-day-on-texas-three-percenter/65-73deb787-a6d7-4176-b27f-558747235578
"You people are so far on the wrong side of history."
If you really believe people here are irredeemable, you are an idiot for sticking around. Normal people don't hang out with people they don't like. Pathetic assholes whose only joy in life is shitting in other people's punch bowls do.
NYC JournoList said...
This is a link to more complete trial coverage. Prosecution is not claiming he was inside the building, but on the steps. They are trying to prove was part of a three percenter conspiracy to obstruct Congress
So, every time Code pink protesters stood up and screamed to slow down things in Congress, that was teh crime of obstructing Congress, and we can send them all total for that?
Update: A Texas man, Guy Wesley Reffitt, accused of bringing a rifle and a semiautomatic pistol to the January 6 attack on the Capitol, interfering with police, and then telling his children that "traitors get shot" when they wanted to turn him into authorities, was found guilty on March 8 on all charges. The jury took less than four hours to deliberate in the first January 6 case to go to trial.
The jury found Reffitt guilty of five charges, including two counts of civil disorder, and one count each of obstruction of an official proceeding, entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds with a firearm, and obstruction of justice.
Guy Wesley Reffitt faces a maximum of 60 years in prison. His sentencing is set for June 8.
His son, Jackson Reffitt, testified against him and offered some of the strongest evidence in the trial.
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