Adherents have built up characters to support their claims that antifa infiltrators or federal agents were the ones who whipped up the mob, in some instances doing so as events were unfolding in Washington. One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter who was captured on video the night of Jan. 5 urging his compatriots to “go into the Capitol” the next day.
Some in the crowd responded approvingly: “Let’s go!” rings out one reply.
“Peacefully,” Mr. Epps said, just before others began chanting “Fed, Fed, Fed!” at the man, who at age 60 stood out in the far-younger crowd.
There's no link to the video, so readers can't see how much "urging" there was or why there was enough to provoke some people — "others" — to call him out as a federal agent and to do it by chanting — as opposed to confronting him and arguing with him. The only reason I'm not linking to the video myself is that I didn't easily find something that wasn't either cut down or edited into commentary.
Mr. Epps, who lives in Queen Creek, Ariz., where he owns Rocking R Farms and the Knotty Barn, a wedding and event venue, according to PolitiFact, appears in another video taken the next day. He is seen yelling to a crowd: “OK, folks, spread the word! As soon as the president is done speaking, we go to the Capitol. The Capitol is this direction.”
No link for that video either.
Both moments went largely unnoticed until June 17, when a poster on the online message board 4chan put up the video of Mr. Epps from Jan. 5, writing, “This Fed was caught on camera encouraging the crowd to raid the Capitol on the next day.”
Ah! Video this time. I watched the video (which I've seen before), and I get the sense that the man speaking, whoever he is, is insincere. By the way, the reaction of the people around him indicates that people did not come to the event with a plan to enter the Capitol. They seem as though they'd never even thought of the idea and consider it obviously stupid.
The anonymous poster added, “Who is this man?”
Another person then identified him as Mr. Epps. Soon after, the video and Mr. Epps’s name were posted in a Twitter thread, and a new conspiracy theory began its journey into the Republican mainstream.
The NYT has independently verified that the man is Ray Epps, right? I myself do not know.
Four months later, on Oct. 21, the video was being shown during a congressional hearing. There, Representative Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican, used it to question Attorney General Merrick B. Garland about whether federal agents had acted as agitators on Jan. 6.
Within days, stories about Mr. Epps began appearing on websites like Revolver News... The Epps story gained further promotion on the far-right cable network One America News... and, far more widely, in [Tucker] Carlson’s “Patriot Purge.”
The NYT doesn't link to those places. I presume it has a policy about which sites get links and which don't. Readers can easily find those places if they want. Question whether it's good journalism to link to some but not others — to have, apparently, a black list (or a white list).
To date, no evidence has emerged linking Mr. Epps to the F.B.I. or any other government agency.
The absence of evidence is never going to convince people that there's no connection because one can easily make inferences from the lack of evidence. The connection, if any, would have been hidden. Perhaps it was hidden competently. Perhaps those who should have looked are in on the conspiracy.
In fact, his known connections are decidedly anti-government: In 2011, Mr. Epps served as the president of the Arizona Oath Keepers, the largest chapter of the militia group whose members were among the mob that attacked the Capitol, though it is not clear if he remains a member of the group.
It's not clear? Find out! Let's hear more about that. How do we know he didn't infiltrate the group? The NYT set out to demonstrate that the Ray Epps story is a conspiracy theory, but it isn't doing what it needs to do to convince a close reader that there's nothing here. I realize it's hard to prove a negative, but if you want to squelch an actively spreading conspiracy theory you have to do much more than assure complacent readers that there's nothing to see here. You have to provide suspicious minds with reason to believe that you investigated to the point that if he were a government agent, you'd have figured it out.
Yet in the days leading up to Thursday’s anniversary, and on the anniversary itself, the speculation around Mr. Epps only seemed to snowball, amplified on countless social media posts, on Mr. Bannon’s podcast — part of a possibly “massive false flag operation,” as his website put it — and on Mr. Carlson’s prime-time show on Fox News on Wednesday and again on Thursday. “Is this guy going to be charged? Where is he?” Mr. Carlson asked. “It’s a legitimate question, why won’t they answer it?”
The section of the article on Ray Epps ends right there, with Carlson's questions, and no answer to them. I'd say at this point that I don't like referring to the story as a "conspiracy theory." I'm rewriting my post title. It's only a conspiracy theory if it's augmented with assertions of fact that are not backed up with evidence.
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212 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»I saw the video, he said "I will probably be in jail tomorrow." It's interesting that the New York Times is running cover for this guy, who urged on people to go into the building, instead of agitating for his imprisonment.
--- It's not clear? Find out!
You are taking them much more seriously than they deserve. They have no interest in finding out. The smokescreen delicately composed is sufficient for the readership, who can now dismiss such ideas as FBI- and Pelosi manipulation and design, by saying that was debunked and they read it in the NY Times.
There is enough video evidence of him inciting the crowd to make the absence of any charges against him very suspicious, in my mind. They have charged everyone and there nearest relative with anything they have even a still picture of. Why would this guy be treated differently? Any at this point, why would anyone believe the FBI about anything?
These days, “conspiracy theory” is a smear.
When The New York Times says this or that is unknown/unproven (“claimed without evidence”) when they could have proven/disproven it themselves with a little investigation, it’s because they don’t want to find out. They have a desired outcome that they suspect is false and they don’t want to sully their preferred narrative with inconvenient facts. At least not until after the next election.
The most discouraging thing is that republican legislators seem totally uninterested in this story. The answer to "who is Ray Epps" could be like another Steele dossier smoking gun that undermines the liberal narrative.
Also, very telling here, is that the corporate media is totally ignoring this potent story. I pine for Mike Wallace showing up at the Epps ranch with a camera crew asking him pointed questions. Sadly, those days are gone.
It wasn't even a riot, from the minor damage done. It would be correct to forget about it all with or without a conspiracy around it.
Somebody wants to keep it alive, is the question to look into.
The most discouraging thing is that republican legislators seem totally uninterested in this story. The answer to "who is Ray Epps" could be like another Steele dossier smoking gun that undermines the liberal narrative.
Also, very telling here, is that the corporate media is totally ignoring this potent story. I pine for Mike Wallace showing up at the Epps ranch with a camera crew asking him pointed questions. Sadly, those days are gone.
he didn't Personally enter the Capitol... He Just Urged people to do so
isn't that, The Definition of Conspiracy? Of Seditious conspiracy?
Don't we have a law, just Exactly designed for him? Why ISN'T he in jail?
Where IS Ray Epps
Some conspiracies are real.
Since you are now interested in this topic, Ann, please go to Revolver News and read part II of its Jan 6 story. It is impressive and deeply resourced. Lots of videos. And, since I'm finishing up a NE S. Ct. brief today, I can tell you that guy probably spent 100 hours writing that piece.
It is more than Ray Epps. Revolver focuses in on two other guys.
To my mind, the fact that Epps was on the FBI most wanted list and was then removed is the tell. The cops don't arrest their informants.
WHY isn't he in the Gulag with the rest of the people the DOJ and FBI targeted? He did more than many of them did. He was an instigator.
Instead of the New York Times...read the Revolver series. They give you more detail with pictures and videos than the lying NYT's will.... https://www.revolver.news/2021/10/meet-ray-epps-the-fed-protected-provocateur-who-appears-to-have-led-the-very-first-1-6-attack-on-the-u-s-capitol/
and https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
Basically you people are saying Trumpers are a bunch of sheeple that can be conned into doing stupid things by a single moron appealing to their pathological insecurities.
Howard:
It was more than Ray Epps. The FBI had people taking down the barricades. It was all a set up.
The absence of evidence is never going to convince people
Because we've heard "There is no evidence" from the NYT before. This, and other things (no evidence for masks, no evidence that a vaccine would be developed in 2020), for the last couple of years where there was no evidence until suddenly there was. (I'm sure they did the same thing before Covid, it's just been more noticeable during this time and more noticeable that what should be based on science is politically driven.)
If I close my eyes, I can't see any evidence that the sky is blue.
Feeling the love, Howard. So helpful.
Who here thinks we will be talking about Ray Epps this time next month? If we are, things are well and truly out of hand. Add to that the greater than trivial possibility that some rogue world actor will take this once in a lifetime opportunity to try something while America is distracted to this degree.
My response is to enjoy the day to the greatest degree possible and thank God for living most of my life in a mostly peaceful world and nation. It's been a helluva run.
This thing is going to get stranger still and it's going to happen amazingly fast when it does. How? Your guess is as good as mine, but the hairs on the back of my neck are mighty twitchy.
"You are taking them much more seriously than they deserve. They have no interest in finding out. "
You are not taking my words seriously enough. I am criticizing them for not doing their work, holding their feet to the fire. You have given up. Fine, but that doesn't make it right for you to misstate what I am doing.
I suppose there’s a bit of hope from Ann’s critique, but, as is oft repeated here NYT is the same outfit that obsessed over Russian collusion for years and dismissed any notion of election tampering. Still they are analyzed as if they are practicing journalists.
Gell-Mann amnesia continues to rage worse than covid.
Ann Althouse:
It's not clear? Find out! Let's hear more about that. How do we know he didn't infiltrate the group? The NYT set out to demonstrate that the Ray Epps story is a conspiracy theory, but it isn't doing what it needs to do to convince a close reader that there's nothing here. I realize it's hard to prove a negative, but if you want to squelch an actively spreading conspiracy theory you have to do much more than assure complacent readers that there's nothing to see here. You have to provide suspicious minds with reason to believe that you investigated to the point that if he were a government agent, you'd have figured it out.
This paragraph very succinctly explains why the distrust in the media is at an all-time high. People live their lives learning and interacting with other human beings. If you can ask enough questions to get them to tell you their story (which may or may not be of interest to you) they will tell you all kinds of things. Start out by telling them you know more than them about everything and you lose all credibility on any subject.
"There is enough video evidence of him inciting the crowd to make the absence of any charges against him very suspicious, in my mind. They have charged everyone and there nearest relative with anything they have even a still picture of. Why would this guy be treated differently? Any at this point, why would anyone believe the FBI about anything?"
Did he commit any acts of violence? Did he enter the building? If not, then this is only speech and he would have a free speech defense. There is Supreme Court precedent on his side. He's not inciting action now, but talking about an event the next day. You can easily find the case if you google the memorable phrase "We'll take the fucking street later."
I am criticizing them for not doing their work, holding their feet to the fire
They. Are. Not. Journalists. They are challenging you- “We don’t care about your criticisms.”
So what are you going to do about it?
Yours is a “Stop or I’ll say stop again” strategy, except you never said “Stop”.
I realize it's hard to prove a negative, but if you want to squelch an actively spreading conspiracy theory you have to do much more than assure complacent readers that there's nothing to see here
Except the NYT is now basically the FBI's PR firm (just ask James O'Keefe). If they wanted to disprove this, they could get an answer and attribute it to a "source with knowledge of the investigation" every day and twice on Sunday.
Did he commit any acts of violence? Did he enter the building? If not...
The video shows him making a feint towards the barrier and then pulling back...just like an undercover cop would do. His lack of follow-through with actual unlawful acts is evidence (not dispositive, but in the Rule 401 sense) that he is, in fact, a fed.
But their audience is composed of "complacent minds," not "suspicious minds." Times readers want to be reassured that there's nothing to the story, rather than disquieted by the thought that it could be true. That they are hearing about it at all is discomforting and unsettling for them enough as it is.
People who don't trust the paper won't trust it's interpretation of the video. The video in question apparently was taken the night before and isn't of very much value determining what happened the next day. If that clip is all there is it's not enough to support or refute any theory.
And at some point the "you people" thing (see above in comments) could be addressed.
Basically you people are saying Trumpers are a bunch of sheeple that can be conned into doing stupid things by a single moron appealing to their pathological insecurities.
I’m going to sort of agree with Howard here. If you study the protest movements of the past- civil rights, Ayers et al, there’s a chapter in the playbook about provoking crowds to do the dirty work while the instigators for our side fly under the radar.
--- You are not taking my words seriously enough. I am criticizing them for not doing their work, holding their feet to the fire. You have given up. Fine, but that doesn't make it right for you to misstate what I am doing.
We differ.
In days of old (bear with me!), when some believed Copernicus and Galileo, there were still powerful forces ranged against their astronomical findings. Heliocentrism went against prevailing norms of society's leaders, to the point that Inquisitions were held. But the astronomy was correct, and as history continued, fewer and fewer paid any attention to the social leaders who pontificated against it.
We know better what is factual; and who today bothers to think about the bourgeois burghers who spent their lives in error opposing those two scientific pioneers? No one, save those who need evidence for an anti-clerical screed. How long did it take to settle the matter for good, socially speaking? A century or two, while some continued to maintain their geocentric beliefs.
That anti-heliocentric Establishment crowd, now vanished, is what the NY Times has become in current norms. It is a house organ for the Flat Earth Society. Their statist predilections and left-wing economic beliefs still hold sway in some circles. But the more they abandoned journalistic inquiry, the easier it has become for their errors to grow. Those errors do not stop them from continuing with the same themes. As time goes by, though, I think the result has been that fewer are paying serious attention to their editorial views and anti-history campaigns like the 1619 Project. You, Althouse, still seem to be a loyalist, but I think it's accurate to say that the NYT propaganda has been losing even its temporary social power from several decades back. And their anti-factual tendency has been going on for a long time, at least since the case of Walter Duranty promoting Stalin and the Soviets. This present "conspiracy theory" article, as much as I can glean from your excerpts, is just another of their constant attempts to sustain a theme favoring the left wing and its Democratic Party establishment.
Asking the Times to pursue objective journalism is quixotic.
Professor Althouse said...
He's not inciting action now, but talking about an event the next day.
and, THEN;
the next day, he is standing on the steps, ordering (conspiring) people to storm the Capitol
Basically you people are saying Trumpers are a bunch of sheeple
sheeple that Stayed Within the Ropes!!
Now that’s not to agree Howard is correct the crowd of people as sheeple. Many invited inside stayed inside the velvet ropes and asked about where they were allowed to travel inside the building. It took the Epps of the crowd to provoke the desired response.
Unfortunately some of the crowd chose to oblige.
The Feds continued efforts of this strategy have fallen flat, leaving only the Feds in these ‘right wing’ protests alone with themselves…
"The presumption of guilt has to be applied to the FBI now that the Ray Epps story got Epsteined.
The public has every right to conclude Jan6 was an FBI operation -- even if it wasn't -- because that is the message the FBI has communicated to us by its actions." - Scott Adams
Everybody but Trump instigated the crowd, got it.
He was on the FBI’s most wanted list for several months, then was mysteriously removed. That says something to me.
"Let's you guys go commit a crime and get arrested" does not sound like a Fed at all.
For those who keep pushing the Revolver material: Please say clearly HERE what is there that isn't in the NYT.
I only want CLEARLY STATED FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
Don't just point me there. Extract what is SPECIFICALLY USEFUL and put it where it is exposed for anyone — for an impatient person — to see.
I don't want something embedded in argument.
I have helped you read the NYT, which you find offputting. I find Revolver offputting. So if there is something else there, tell me CLEARLY what it is.
Howard, when emotions run high- there’s every chance people will think like sheep- get caught up in the moment. And from videos taken from inside certain areas, even if one wanted to turn back, they couldn’t. People were squashed. People flow the way of the tide- or w/the current and get swept up.
What about that John Earle Sullivan puke?
...and there's no factual evidence that the FBI leaked illegally obtained Project Veritas information to the New York Times within a day of their raid on James O'Keefe. And thank God for the dozen or so brave FBI agents that saved Gov. Whitmer from those knuckle dragging militia crazies. No evidence. LOL
I cannot put this better than Glenn Greenwald:
The number of people killed by pro-Trump supporters at the January 6 Capitol riot is equal to the number of pro-Trump supporters who brandished guns or knives inside the Capitol. That is the same number as the total of Americans who — after a full year of a Democrat-led DOJ conducting what is heralded as “the most expansive federal law enforcement investigation in US history” — have been charged with inciting insurrection, sedition, treason or conspiracy to overthrow the government as a result of that riot one year ago. Coincidentally, it is the same number as Americans who ended up being criminally charged by the Mueller probe of conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election, and the number of wounds — grave or light — which AOC, who finally emerged at night to assure an on-edge nation that she was “okay" while waiting in an office building away from the riot at the rotunda, sustained on that solemn day.
That number is zero.
As for Ray Epps: Simple question is why has he not been questioned? And there were others as well, leading, encouraging, pleading for storming the Capitol. Remember John Sullivan? He is a BLM organizer, seen encouraging and leading protests/riots elsewhere, getting arrested elsewhere for his actions. What ever happened to John Sullivan?
IF the New York Times actually cared about digging into facts, they could have shown us that during the Russia Collusion bullshit. Or during the Cuomo is a star bullshit. They've no claim to being a final word. Their clear status today is to be the Official Voice of The Narrative. Taken in that context, there is not much for me to comment on their Ray Epps story.
"To my mind, the fact that Epps was on the FBI most wanted list and was then removed is the tell. "
I think he was on a most wanted list that related to the Capitol riot.
My first guess about why he was taken off the list is because they know where he is. The most wanted list is seeking help FINDING a person.
So the real question is why wasn't he arrested? I presume it's because HE NEVER ENTERED THE BUILDING. His participation was in the form of speech (and maybe going through an outdoor barrier).
We don't have arrests based on planning and incitement. I presume that's what the Justice Department is still working on, and that's why Merrick Garland wouldn't comment on the video when Massie asked him about it.
What is the right thing for a right-thinking person to think when they hear the name Ray Epps?
Inquiring minds want to know.
So, if I have this right, Ray Epps told people to go to the capitol/into the capitol, but he didn’t go in himself?
To me, that would make him a suspicious character. (I don’t have a NYT account)
Revolver has video of Epps at the barricade at the time of the first breach whispering in the ear of the initial breacher. Also video of him at the time of the riot directing people to the capitol. Also video of him under the tower that is in the restricted zone of Jan 6.
Also video of people removing barricades before the Proud Boys arrival at the scene. Also questions why the man directing rioters from the tower with a bullhorn has not been investigated. That scaffold guy is on video speaking with Epps before the breach on Jan 6.
Speaking as a reporter, a very good piece. It also lacks anyy direct evidence of FBI involvement. Also speaking as a reporter, the fact that the NY Times dis not reach out to Epps is embarrassing, he did speak to his local Arizona paper if only to say he did not want to talk about it. Journalistic best practice is to reach out to all those mentioned in your article and inform the reader that you made the effort if you failed to obtain comment.
Ann:
You are giving the DOJ way too much credit; especially that hack Merrick Garland.
And I think removing a police barricade is a crime. Revolver News has plenty on one guy who removed barricades. He hasn't been arrested.
"There are no coincidences." Novelist Michael Connelly.
Dear Professor Althouse,
Capitalized typing solves nothing.
Comments like Third Coast at 8:07 AM are marginal. I considered deleting, but I will leave it with an admonition not to continue like that. The use of sarcasm is low humor and you're bringing up other topics. Please stay focused on Ray Epps here. I know you want to say more general things about the FBI, but you could fill a library with books about FBI misdeeds. It will just dilute things here, and it's especially bad to just list things in a sarcastic way and say "LOL."
I don't want discussion of this comment of mine. Go back to the last open thread or wait for the next one if you want to talk about it or about the FBI in general.
Rhetorical question: why would anyone think that government agents acted as provocateurs on January 6?
If you admit the “provocateur” possibility, there are questions to be answered about prominent, visible persons who apparently have “disappeared” from the investigation.
I’d like some answers from NYT with their vast reserves of reporting talent. Based on this story, NYT would rather bury the questions than answer them. They created a “process” story without ever addressing the more basic facts.
Who is Ray Epps? Why is he not a prominent figure in the government’s investigation?
I think I've seen enough "evidence" to conclude there were people that were coordinating and gaming the crowd to breech the Capitol building. Images and videos with sound are pretty solit evidence. The Revolver article is useful in identifying some of these. The Times articles are useful in how they seek to gloss over key elements pointed out in the Revolver article and brought up by others.
(BTW, The NYT has lied and misinformed so frequently without sufficient apoligy and retraction/correction that I don't consider them a high-quality news source.)
Ray Epps is a key point of interest in this regard. Not onlh was he on the streets the night before, but he was there the next day when the first perimeter barriers were breached and seemed to be directing and coordinating. He was never at the speech over a mile away, but always at the Capitol.
The FBI had him on it's most wanted list for Jan 6 persons of interest, but then was removed. Explanation is required. The FBI/DOJ feels it doesn't have to reveal this to Congress.
It is interesting people compare Jan 6 2021 with other events. Clearly it is not on the same page as 9/11/01 or 12/7/41. The best comparison is the significant violence that broke out on inauguration day in 2017. Then, all those people just decided to arm themselves with hammers and crow-bars? Not to mention home-made incendiary devices. They rampaged about Washington DC, burning, smashing, looting and violently attacking police and pedestrians. They later surrounded the White House trying to overrun it. This was Antifa. They admitted it at the time. Democrat leaders were largely silent, feeling the "mostly peaceful" protesters needed room to break things.
Finally, Where is Nancy Pelosi's responsibility here? She is in control of the Capitol building and its security forces. Other branches of government cannot intrude without her invitation. What information was she given and what deisions did she make to secure the Capitol building? That was her responsibility, not the President's. If she needs help from local PD, she must request it. If she needs help from other branches of the federal government, she must request it. If she needs National Guard support, she must ask the President for it. What were her actions? Any valid inquiry into that day would look into these things.
(fair disclosure: I've never voted for Donald Trump)
Revolver has actual pictures and videotape that the NYT's doesn't. It isn't behind a pay wall, so if you refuse to look, don't be surprised when the REAL truth comes out, and the NYT's goes down because they are the Progressive propaganda machine. Americans are waking up to the fact that the FBI is an arm of the Progressive movement, and they set this up like they set up the fake Russian Collusion.
Point of clarification. You didn't have to enter the building on Jan 6 to get arrested. You only needed to breach the "secure" perimter (low temporary fence) to be in violation. The bulk of the effort has gone to those who entered the building, but others outside the building have been arrested and detained without speedy trial.
NY Times also once reported that Poland invaded Germany to start WW2
Never a correction
paper of shame
people aspire to work there? ALL FoS
Hear!! Hear!! PB @ 8:27am
Probably the most interesting fact that comes from Revolver is that Ray Epps was on the FBI most wanted list and them quietly removed after he was found. Why? No one will say.
If the DOJ and the January 6 Commission wanted to prove a coordinated attack, which is what they say they want to do, the investigation would center around the Oathkeeper leaders instead of lackeys who didn't plan anything without the leaders' help.
Some other interesting facts to come from Revolver center on the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer and how the prosecution against the planners has fallen apart because of the FBI informants and undercover agents involved. The FBI agent who oversaw that prosecution was moved to DC just in time for January 6. Revolver speculates that he ran the case in DC the same way he ran the Whitmer case.
"As for Ray Epps: Simple question is why has he not been questioned?"
Do we know he hasn't?
"IF the New York Times actually cared about digging into facts, they could have shown us that during the Russia Collusion bullshit. Or during the Cuomo is a star bullshit. They've no claim to being a final word. Their clear status today is to be the Official Voice of The Narrative. Taken in that context, there is not much for me to comment on their Ray Epps story."
They chose to speak on the subject and to put it in a place where it looked as though they were going to show why people who think it's important are delusional. The NYT exposed itself, so I think that's very important. What's the official narrative? The statements don't hold together and we're left with questions. That's not a narrative, and if they were trying to be the narrative...
Ann Althouse said...
For those who keep pushing the Revolver material: Please say clearly HERE what is there that isn't in the NYT.
I only want CLEARLY STATED FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
Ok. So Ann wants clearly stated factual evidence that the FBI planted operatives in a crowd from people outside the government.
She still gives credence to people that blatantly lied about Brian Sicknick's death and demands proof from people who have been right about everything for the last 5 years.
Did you demand proof from the liars that pedaled the Sicknick blood libel? You still read the NYT's and refuse to go see actual reporting
But keep pretending you are cruelly neutral. To be honest we laugh about "cruel neutrality" just so you know. It is an open joke.
Don't just point me there. Extract what is SPECIFICALLY USEFUL and put it where it is exposed for anyone — for an impatient person — to see.
You wont go there anyways. You will still prevaricate. But here you go.
Here you go Ann.
At 48 seconds there is Epps in his Trump hat giving instructions to one of the other FBI plants in his Trump hat.
He goes through and whispers to other people right before they charge the fence on other videos.
I am not going to do your homework for you Ann. You will either be curious and interested in the truth or you wont.
None of the people on the video that actually pushed the fence or assaulted the police officers are in jail.
None of them.
And the ringleader of the small group of people that led the charge and is clearly on video trying to organize breaking into the capitol for 2 days is walking free and removed from the FBI most wanted list.
Note that Epps is on video for 2 days trying to recruit people to go into the capitol.
I think NYC JournoList took up my challenge.
"Speaking as a reporter, a very good piece."
Why? What is there other than the video? What am I supposed to see that isn't in the NYT?
“ For those who keep pushing the Revolver material: Please say clearly HERE what is there that isn't in the NYT. ”
C’mon, you know your readers aren’t going to pay to get through the NYT paywall. We don’t know what is or isn’t in the NYT.
Snopes has a pretty good article. They point to a video showing Epps trying to back protesters away from the police line. It appears that he was one of the very fine people there that day, so of course the violence-mongers want him arrested.
As far as Epps being on the FBI most wanted list, that is a gross exaggeration (lie, for those commenters who like to use that term). The Snopes article shows that Epps was pictured in a “seeking information” posting asking for public assistance in identifying people who made unlawful entry into the U.S. Capitol Building. The conspiracy theorists have offered no pictures of Epps inside the Capitol.
As to what Epps whispered into the young man’s ear at the barricades, the man can testify to that and call Epps to testify when he comes to trial. There is no other way of knowing. Perfect for conspiracy theorists.
The Daily Mail has a pretty good article. They went to Epps’s wedding ranch (5 acre farm) in Arizona:
“When we arrived at the property in Queen Creek, 30 miles southeast of downtown Phoenix, to give him an opportunity to confront the extreme speculation, he bluntly refused to discuss it. He told us: 'Get off my property'. As we endeavored to further explain, he repeated: 'Get off my property.'”
On June 30th the NYT's ran a story on Ray Epps.
The FBI responded to these important media stories the very next day. But their response was to quietly purge all online Ray Epps files from their website, then switch to a posture of “What? Who? Ray Epps? Never heard of him.”"The FBI responded to these important media stories the very next day. But their response was to quietly purge all online Ray Epps files from their website, then switch to a posture of “What? Who? Ray Epps? Never heard of him.”
There's proof that this happened. Yeah. It's good to a Democrat, but I wouldn't want to be one.
"Protesters set fires and hurled bricks in a daylong assault on the city hosting Donald Trump’s inauguration, registering their rage against the new president in a series of clashes that led to more than 200 arrests. Police used pepper spray and stun grenades to prevent the chaos from spilling into Trump’s formal procession and evening balls.
***
about a mile from the National Mall, police gave chase to a group of about 100 protesters who smashed the windows of downtown businesses including a Starbucks, a Bank of America and a McDonald’s as they denounced capitalism and Trump. Police in riot gear used pepper spray from large canisters to help contain the violence, which erupted periodically throughout the day.
“They began to destroy property, throw objects at people, through windows. A large percentage of this small group was armed with crowbars and hammers,” said the city’s interim police chief, Peter Newsham."
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/riots-then-and-now.php
Headed out to buy groceries, but I can respond this afternoon.
Who is Ray Epps? Reporters that found him get a visit from the FBI
Random reporters can go out and find Ray Epps.
But the FBI can't. They don't know who he even is.
It is a total fucking mystery to them.
But if you pester some guy they don't know about they want to have a word with you.
Meh. Believe what you want. This is why we are so divided. Keep your heads in the NYT's sand. If everybody feels this way, we will never know what really happened, and I think some of you want THAT instead of the alternative, which is it was a set up by our Government agencies and Nancy Pelosi. It was places like Revolver that got to the truth of the FAKE
Russian collusion that our propaganda media rammed down our throats for 5 years (and to this day)
"Revolver has actual pictures and videotape that the NYT's doesn't. It isn't behind a pay wall, so if you refuse to look, don't be surprised when the REAL truth comes out, and the NYT's goes down because they are the Progressive propaganda machine. Americans are waking up to the fact that the FBI is an arm of the Progressive movement, and they set this up like they set up the fake Russian Collusion."
I've seen the pictures and video elsewhere.
I asked for what is written at Revolver that is new. I asked someone to do for me with regard to Revolver what I did for you with regard to the NYT. So far, no one seems willing even to try. That's why my working assumption is that there's nothing for me to see over there. Prove me wrong. Don't just tell me they have video and pix. Put in writing specific assertions that are new and probative.
"Point of clarification. You didn't have to enter the building on Jan 6 to get arrested. You only needed to breach the "secure" perimter (low temporary fence) to be in violation. The bulk of the effort has gone to those who entered the building, but others outside the building have been arrested and detained without speedy trial."
Please list arrests that fall into this category and be specific about whether these people are accused of other acts beyond just going past the fence.
NYT- 'Believe us, it's not true.'
That's it?
Tuckers Questions are not out of line.
Certainly considerably more reasonable than any of the Russia Russia Russia fake news conspiracy on Maddow for 3+ straight years.
@Althouse, i applaud your efforts to understand this story, though I caution you that restricting your attention to conventional newsmedia sources creates no likelihood that you will get the full story. If the Times has information contrary to their precious narrative then it simply will not be published. I think there’s a level at which you know that, but my own take is that subconsciously you have difficulty overcoming your experience as a young woman living in New York back when the Times was a really first rate paper and not the mere repackager of lefty talking points that it is today.
BTW, you may find it useful to know that the gentleman’s full name is James Ray Epps as you do your research.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Snopes has a pretty good article. They point to a video showing Epps trying to back protesters away from the police line. It appears that he was one of the very fine people there that day, so of course the violence-mongers want him arrested.
This is perfect for you Ann.
You can take your cruel neutrality to Snopes to get the real story. Because a leftist website that still pushes every leftist lie from the last 5 years has some more "fact checks."
Left Bank is too stupid to think for himself. Hence why he still believes Trump and Russia colluded to steal the 2016 election and democrats have proof. He still believes Kavanaugh rape hoaxes and Trump rape hoaxes.
In a year he will still believe the Trump tried to overthrow the J6 inauguration hoax.
Has Left Bank ever owned up to the Officer Sicknick Blood libel?
Have you ever apologized for trying to smear us with that lie muppet?
"Probably the most interesting fact that comes from Revolver is that Ray Epps was on the FBI most wanted list and them quietly removed after he was found. Why? No one will say."
Huh? It's easy to say! If they FOUND him, they aren't looking for him. They know where he is and if they are going to arrest him, it will be because they've decided to arrest people in a category that has not yet been subject to arrests. It's the continuing investigation that Garland referred to when confronted with the video.
So I find that fact uninteresting. And I've read the Washington Examiner article about it so I didn't need Revolver for that:
Anything else?
"How do we know he didn't infiltrate the group? "
*************************
Isn't asking that question providing a new conspiracy theory? We're supposed to believe that he infiltrated the Arizona Oath Keepers and became its president 10 years ago, all to stir up the mob in DC ten years later?
"One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter"
How do they know he is a Trump supporter?
"chanting “Fed, Fed, Fed!” at the man, who at age 60 stood out in the far-younger crowd"
They were on to him early.
"I get the sense that the man speaking, whoever he is, is insincere"
Umm, yeah. But the people protecting him are very honest in using the deep state agains the right.
"By the way, the reaction of the people around him indicates that people did not come to the event with a plan to enter the Capitol. They seem as though they'd never even thought of the idea and consider it obviously stupid."
Right. Of course. But that's no reason to stop talking about insurrection or free the political prisoners.
"To date, no evidence has emerged linking Mr. Epps to the F.B.I. or any other government agency."
Ah, the good old "no evidence" trope. It hasn't "emerged," has it. Might it remain submerged?
Scott Alexander has a wonderful post (not inspired by this), "The Phrase 'No Evidence' Is A Red Flag For Bad Science Communication."
"@Althouse, i applaud your efforts to understand this story, though I caution you that restricting your attention to conventional newsmedia sources creates no likelihood that you will get the full story."
My post is ABOUT how I'm not getting the full story from the NYT so your "caution" is misplaced. I'm monitoring mainstream media. That's what I do. If other media is useful, point to what is useful. I cannot review all that stuff, but I've given you a place to boil it down and state it clearly. That's not my job. This blog isn't even a job.
There's a lot more. Ray Epps isn't the only strange being that was instigating things that day. None of the instigators are in the gulag. Julie Kelly has written many articles on the subject.
The whole things is strange, and because of that....there will always be questions that won't be answered with Nancy Pelosi's select group of liars that we just spent 5 years listening to lie to us about Russian Collusion. You won't find any of this in the NYT's or any other Liberal news...they aren't looking. https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/08/where-are-the-neon-hatted-proud-boys/
The media parroting "THERE'S NO EVIDENCE!" over and over sounds a lot like each other and Hillary.
nn Althouse said...
We don't have arrests based on planning and incitement.
But isn't that the very definition of "seditious conspiracy"? As we were discussing the other day?
As I read the law, no action is required, just conspiracy to potentially take action. If Epps was totally on his own, he may be OK since the law requires "two or more persons" to conspire. Was he a line actor?
"18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."
John LGBTQBNY Henry
I'll repeat Tucker's Questions:
“Is this guy going to be charged?"
Where is he?”
"It’s a legitimate question, why won’t they answer it?”
NYT didn't answer it.
I thought the scrubbing on Epps from the FBI's web-site was odd.
The NYT's motto should be "All the news that our elite, left-wing readership wants to read." The paper has shown over and over its reluctance to publish stories that may tend to undermine their core readership's worldview. In regard to the Ray Epps/fed-encouragement-of-J6 story, the Times must have figured that their readers were hearing enough potentially disturbing information about this matter from other sources that they needed to get on record as having reported on it, albeit while approaching the story with enough restraint and whatever the opposite of "doggedness" is to enable them to report that there is no "there" there.
Ann, as a reader of NYT, can you tell me whether, and to what extent, the Times reported on Hunter Biden's laptop? IIRC, the basic approach to that story by the Times and other legacy media was, again, to pretend it didn't exist to the extent possible and otherwise to try to dismiss the contents of the laptop as probable Russian disinformation (without evidence!). Isn't the present coverage of the J6 "conspiracy theories" pretty reminiscent of that approach?
The Times is clearly capable of doing incredible reporting when it wants to, but it clearly doesn't always want to, and that's killing its reputation among a huge chunk of the country.
Tim In Vermont's first post nails it.
This guy is on video asking/telling people to go into the Capitol.
The NYT OK with that! We thought the NYT were strictly anti insurrectionist?
"Sidestepping the lawlessness of Congress that’s pursuing incarceration of individuals without due process, who have committed misdemeanors at best, is a failed attempt to create an illusion of peaceful coexistence." - A. Dru Kristenev
Who is Stewart Rhodes?
Why is Stewart Rhodes not in jail? Why has he not even been questioned?
Jeremy Brown was recruited by the FBI to be an informant.
He also has an FBI raid on his house and is currently in jail.
But Rhodes isn't.
@Roger Sweeny 9:05, that was great. Thanks.
"Basically you people are saying Trumpers are a bunch of sheeple that can be conned into doing stupid things by a single moron appealing to their pathological insecurities."
Basically they are saying that a possible FBI informant did his best to escalate the situation. It's certainly a common enough technique with the Bureau to infiltrate an organization then have the infiltrator act as an agent provocateur so they can put the organization out of business. Does that mean they caused 1/6? Of course not. It does suggest though that there was more going on than the current "insurrection" narrative suggests.
@Althouse, regarding your comments at 8:59 and 9:00, may I retract my applause? You claim that you are doing the research, but these two comments amount to a demand that your readers and commentators spoon feed the information to you. You should be ashamed! If it isn’t in the Times or the Post you don’t want to know about it? Is that what it was like for your students back in the day? No wonder Wisconsin graduated turds like Chisholm, if that’s what professors think “research” ought to be.
For the record, I’m not going to do the Times versus Revolver analysis for you because the Times is behind a paywall and I’m not going to spend thd tii I’llme to work my way past that paywall just to spoon feed your research results to you.
Althouse said: "I am criticizing them for not doing their work, holding their feet to the fire."
This is nice. I wish it made sense. But this nice and reasonable response is based on the dual illusion that "their work" is to report and analyze honestly, and that calling their BS amounts to "holding their feet to the fire" or could possibly be perceived that way.
"You have given up."
Yes and no. Of course, we have "given up" any illusions about "the work" of propaganda outfits like the NYT or about any conceivable benefit of "holding their feet to the fire." But as the many comments here attest, we have not given up on #Resistance to the continual propaganda offensive. In her own way, Althouse is an ally.
Ann, he never entered the building because he was an FBI agent. His orders were to agitate, not partake.
The Epps story and similar threads is evolving precisely as all the hoaxes perpetrated by the left/democraticals/DOJ/FBI have: with the emergence of the actual facts labeled as a "conspiricy" and crazy!
How many examples do you need?
And this discussion should be wed to the now exposed FBI-driven Whitmer kidnapping hoax, which itself followed the precise same FBI-driven and exposed 2016 Hutaree Militia case in MI as they all follow the same pattern and the stories in the legacy press then follow the same script: call any questions "wild conspiracies" for as long as possible, thus using the narrative as needed for immediate political purposes, then when exposed simply ignore or write off as "old news".
For this Epps story, we are at the stage of exposure similar to when Howard and Left Bank and Freder et al were saying anyone who believed the Hillary campaign paid for the hoax dossier was crazy!
And remember, only a 4chan-er could possibly believe a weaponized ChiCombat virus was engineered in a bio-warfare lab in China...where they do bat virus weaponization and have the very species of bat involved.
You know in the old days if someone was building a grand case, there would usually be some sort of strategic leak or some off the record anonymous quote announcing the intentions of the government to get the bad guys. In other times, it would probably be included in a NYT piece like this one. Instead, the Times is saying, "Don't look there. Nothing to see."
If the DOJ is building cases against these guys they need to say so. Everyone knows them. Everyone knows their involvement. No one would be shocked to hear they're being investigated. But there's nothing.
You know who also told the mob to go to the Capitol, right?
meanwhile
https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-antifa-member-targeted-florida-rally-with-a-bomb-more-explosives-found-at-his-house?utm_campaign=64483
Ann Althouse said...
So I find that fact uninteresting. And I've read the Washington Examiner article about it so I didn't need Revolver for that:
Anything else?
Of cruel neutrality? No.
You have been given plenty of conflicting information.
I find it hilarious that you are demanding a bunch of private citizens provide concrete proof to you that the Federal Government and several of it's massive institutions with Billions in budgets and giant multi-billion dollar media companies are conspiring to lie to the public about the J6 Reichstag Fire.
Really quite weak sauce.
Especially when all of these institutions have been caught lying to your face so conspicuously so many times so recently.
There are so many people not in jail now that are obviously government instigators and informants.
You know the only way to get proof is to arrest people, raid their houses, and seize evidence. And you know we can't do that.
But yeah you are cruelly neutral and stuff.
Althouse, you said, "Probably the most interesting fact that comes from Revolver is that Ray Epps was on the FBI most wanted list and them quietly removed after he was found. Why? No one will say."
Huh? It's easy to say! If they FOUND him, they aren't looking for him. They know where he is and if they are going to arrest him, it will be because they've decided to arrest people in a category that has not yet been subject to arrests. It's the continuing investigation that Garland referred to when confronted with the video."
If you look at the Revolver articles, you can see that most of the people on the "wanted" list are shown with "Arrested" on their photos. This did not happen with Ray Epps. His photo was just deleted with no comment.
Ann, I love how you hold your own against all these people trying to tell you what to do and what to read. You are a true internet treasure.
Arturo Ui: "You know who also told the mob to go to the Capitol, right?"
Classic Field Marshall Freder Rupar-ing.
Have you figured out how "state lines" work yet, or are you still confused?
"Huh? It's easy to say! If they FOUND him, they aren't looking for him. They know where he is and if they are going to arrest him, it will be because they've decided to arrest people in a category that has not yet been subject to arrests. It's the continuing investigation that Garland referred to when confronted with the video."
I think that's a perfectly reasonable explanation. I wonder whether anyone the FBI was seeking information about has been removed from the list without arrest, or whether all such persons (if there are any) were arrested upon identification.
There is no evidence. Yeah, if the FBI doesn't want to disclose he's an asset, and no MSM reporter or Congressional committee wants to investigate, then you end up with "No evidence".
Hitler 1945: "Holocaust? There is no evidence of that".
Pravda 1935: "Gulags? There is no evidence. Bougouise conspiracy theory"
NYT 2020: "Biden's laptop? No evidence of that. Trump conspiracy theory"
See how easy it is.
The Revolver Article has all the details, and shows the NYT to be a liar. Its more than just one Video. And the NYT doesn't address why Epps isn't being charged. Or why no one seems interested. Why isn't he been labeled a "Domistic Terrorist" like the other 700 people? And what happened to the person who left the pipebombs. Funny dat. all those DOJ/FBI resources, and the person on film. Yet, the investigation was almost immediately closed down in February 2021. Funny dat.
Look at it this way, its been one year. Ray Epps first got tagged six months ago. Yet, this is first article by the NYT on it. Has the Wapo done anything? Doubtful. So why now? Because the the news media was FORCED to address it. Its circulated and is obviously true. It got past the censors. Too many people have read about Mr. Epps.
So, NYT to the rescue. Put out just enough, to quash the story. Now all the MSM "Factcheckers" will reference this article and say "No evidence"
Here's what AG Garland said to Congress last summer, when questioned about Epps:
Rep. Massie: As far as we can determine, the individual who was saying he’ll probably go to jail, he’ll probably be arrested, but they need to go into the Capitol the next day, is then directing people into the Capitol the next day, is then the next day directing people to the Capitol. And as far as we can find. You said this is one of the most sweeping in history. Have you seen that video, or those frames from that video?
AG Garland: So as I said at the outset, one of the norms of the Justice Department is to not comment on pending investigations, and particularly not to comment on particular scenes or particular individuals.
FBI support for Democrats and operations against Republicans:
- Hilary Clinton e-mail scandal. James Comey said that HRC had not deliberately released classified data. She showed gross negligence in handling classified data. That is prosecutable. As a TS and SAP clearance holder, we learned the penalties for mishandling classified data. She never did.
- The Russian hoax. The FBI new it was a hoax in August 2016. They falsified a CIA memo to get an illegal FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign.
- The Mueller investigation. By December 2016/January 2017 they new that "There was no there there." Yet, they continued to "investigate" and came up nothing.
- The Mike Flynn "investigation." They falsified their records of his interview. Comey said that they deliberately interviewed Flynn without counsel so they could manufacture a lie.
- The Hunter Biden lap top "investigation." Better description: coverup.
- The Hunter Biden gun purchase false swearing. Coverup.
- The Biden diary: Illegal raid and seizure of Project Veritas founder (can't remember his name). Then the leak to the NYT.
- The Gretchen Witmer kidnap plot. Created and lead by FBI agents and informants.
- The January 6, 2021 riot. Lead by Ray Epps and John Sullivan. Neither of which are in jail, but living large with no worries.
The FBI has become the Democrat Party's Praetorian Guard and Soviet KGB, all rolled up in one. Dissolve it, tear down the Hoover building and salt the site. Pull the pensions of everyone and ban them from federal employment.
rcocean said...
Look at it this way, its been one year. Ray Epps first got tagged six months ago. Yet, this is first article by the NYT on it. Has the Wapo done anything? Doubtful. So why now? Because the the news media was FORCED to address it. Its circulated and is obviously true. It got past the censors. Too many people have read about Mr. Epps.
So, NYT to the rescue. Put out just enough, to quash the story. Now all the MSM "Factcheckers" will reference this article and say "No evidence"
And anything that appears on social media will be "fact checked" and censored.
Just like Russian Collusion and the Fraud in the 2020 election.
And bubble people can go back to their bubbles.
And be shocked in a year or two when the FBI and NYT's and Biden Regime quietly accept they were lying all along.
And nobody will apologize for all of the lying.
And Gell-Mann will reign.
Btw, we are talking about a media that awarded themselves dozens of Pulitzer Prizes for their 5-year running Russia collusion lies...and they are proud of those Pulitzers...
...because their lies served their purpose.
The Revolver article lays out all the facts.
https://www.revolver.news/2021/10/meet-ray-epps-the-fed-protected-provocateur-who-appears-to-have-led-the-very-first-1-6-attack-on-the-u-s-capitol/
The Key point is that Epps was on the FBI's "20 most wanted Jan 6th list" in Feb 2021. The public was asked to identify him. And they did. Any yet on July 1st, 2021, the FBI scrubbed his photo and all the film they had put online about him. And they've refused to answer questions about why, or what they've done to investigate him.
Obvious conclusion: FBI asset.
I've never read anything on Revolver and I won't subscribe to the NYT, so this comment is purely an examination of the sniff test. Why is there no official comment on this Epps character or the other two(?) guys I've heard discussed? The federal government could shut down the "conspiracy theory" by making a comment about them: "We have spoken with these individuals and concluded that they did not participate in or meaningfully contribute to the illegal actions on 1/6. Video evidence indicates that while they did engage in speech that we believe is false, misleading, and could be interpreted as inciting, interviews with others at the scene minimizes or negates their role in encouraging others to commit illegal acts." There - that's why they haven't been arrested; they were foolish and wrong but did not, themselves, do anything illegal. The lack of any such statement makes the government look shifty.
But that shiftiness could also be interpreted as "the government wants a conspiracy theory, because that way it can continue to decry and dismiss Trump supporters as unhinged and not worth attention."
Just more two-movies stuff. I am inclined to believe that there were instigators in the crowd, because - as with the 2020 elections themselves - there were a lot of individual facts (Pelosi's refusal to accept Trump's offer of Guardsmen for security, Capitol police's ushering people into the building, the Sicknick lie perpetuated even by the president himself yesterday, the death of Babbitt and the silence around the identity and any investigation of her killer, and even the lauding of her killer as a hero, and the fact that Epps is a free man with no comment from the government concerning his clear and acknowledged involvement) that, taken together, point in one direction. But I can't rule out the idea that the Biden administration, feeling that it benefits from naming its political opponents as deranged kooks and dining the fears of its supporters, is actively trying to keep the story alive.
Or the Biden administration is just inept. That's another possibility: fools more than knaves.
You know who also told the mob to go to the Capitol, right?
Yes. Trump encouraged his supporters to peacefully protest the election. You can find the transcript on line. I printed it out last year to show my Democrat wife. It did not exactly red pill her, but she stopped talking about the insurrection bullshit.
Why hasn't the FBI swept up all of the antifa/BLM rioters for prosecution? They seem to be able to identify all of the tourists who entered the Capital without any difficulty. Would the DOJ prosecute those same antifa/BLM rioters to the full extent of the law? Probably not, just going from their track record of those they have prosecuted. The Federal judges have sentenced to the antifa/BLM rioters with just slaps on their wrists.
Jamie: "But I can't rule out the idea that the Biden administration, feeling that it benefits from naming its political opponents as deranged kooks and dining the fears of its supporters, is actively trying to keep the story alive."
I think we can rule it out at this point as the legacy media has been very hesitant to even address this story whereas if keeping the story alive was a priority for those responsible for changing Biden's Earpiece's diaper then the media zone would hace been flooded.
rcocean is correct: the video has provuded clear evidence of what has been going on so as with hunters laptop showing hunter with underage girls and smoking crack and arranging corrupt deals, Ashley Biden's authentic diary where she wrote of how Biden's Earpiece would routinely shower with her as a not-so-young-girl (nothing strange about that!), and the Epstein evidence (including videos) that "disappeared",the legacy media and big tech want this story dead.
So the NYT prints this and now big tech will censor any message that goes against the narrative.
It does suggest though that there was more going on than the current "insurrection" narrative suggests.
Greenwald has an interesting angle on this. He only suggests that 1/6 got used as leverage against Trump so he wouldn’t pardon Snowden and Assange. Which naturally raises the question of whether that was part of the plan to begin with.
“all signs are pointing in the direction of him pardoning Snowden, for sure. And maybe Assange. And then suddenly this preposterous impeachment proceeding to impeach a president who was on his way out anyway, emerged precisely because it gave them the leverage to threaten Trump and say that they would convict him if he did any of those things.
And that is why he left office without doing what you can tell from that video he knows he should have done.”
https://systemupdate.substack.com/p/video-transcript-the-semi-inside
Maynard (to Freder/AI): "Yes. Trump encouraged his supporters to peacefully protest the election. You can find the transcript on line. I printed it out last year to show my Democrat wife. It did not exactly red pill her, but she stopped talking about the insurrection bullshit."
Maynard, Freder already knows what is in the actual transcript.
He/she/xe is simply here to lie to advance Team Dem.
In just the last 2 days alone, the Althouse lefties were STILL pushing russia collusion, the hoax dossier, the drinking bleach lie, the "made fun of a disabled reporter" lie, as well as the "fine people" lie.
Your mistake, Maynard" is treating their comments as honest dialogue that can be engaged with reason and objective facts.
James K, that it precisely the background story that has emerged along with additional details: that a significant number of republican Senators, including McConnell,Rubio, Graham etc would move as a block (with Romney, Murkowski, Thune, Burr, etc) to vote with democrats for impeachment which would folliw the mass resignation of key cabinet members and remaining white house staff if Trump did that.
It took a concerted across the board effort to get rid of this Trump guy who was tipping over far too many rice bowls to be allowed to stay or even to leave without a sword hanging over his and his family's head.
Is it illegal to "go to the Capitol" ?
oh, I'm sorry, I mean - Is it illegal to go to "Nancy Pelosi's House of Worship" ?
I’m late to this, but here’s a simple question for the NYT. It is clear Ray Epps was involved in entering the Capitol on Jan. 6th. Hundreds of others are currently held without bail awaiting trial for that event. Where is Ray Epps?
If not in custody for his involvement, why not? Was his case already adjudicated? What was the outcome?
“Go into the Capitol!”
If this was said at a time the Capitol was closed to the public, then it is an urging to violate the law.
Jan. 6, 2021
Washington DC
United States
Dozens injured in massive protest against government corruption as public anger over charges of election tampering erupts in the capitol city.
I am skeptical that it was an FBI conspiracy, and I am skeptical that it was an insurrection. I'll stick with 'a protest that went to far.' They often do.
Half-assed behavior and bullshit are what one gets from the NYT. Some need it for sustenance.
Chris: "I am skeptical that it was an FBI conspiracy,...."
....because?.......
We don't know if the FBI has questioned Ray Epps, and they aren't likely to tell us. But has the Congressional Committee subpoenaed him? Would that be a matter of public record?
This is how they talk about the media overseas...especially the NYT's... "What does it mean when President Biden declares an event in which four people died, all of them Trump supporters and only one by violence, the “worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War,” and The New York Times marks the anniversary by proclaiming that “Every Day Is Jan. 6 Now”? The implication is politics as permanent crisis, which sounds strikingly like a definition of war."
"An investigation by the New York Times based on confidential records and sources found that “federal law enforcement had a far greater visibility into the assault on the Capitol, even as it was taking place, than was previously known”. The Times’ efforts pick up on reporting on the FBI’s role in the riot by the Right-wing news site Revolver, which has focused on Ray Epps, the former president of the Oath Keepers militia movement. Epps, who unlike some 700 other people involved in the riot has never been arrested or charged with a crime, can be seen on video taken at the riot telling people to “go into the Capitol”. https://unherd.com/2022/01/america-is-controlled-by-secrecy/
The January 6 Select Committee's true name is "January 6 Coverup Committee." The will never ask any embarrassing questions to Nancy Pelosi and Christopher Wray. Their answers would be too revealing.
At first, I discounted the story about Epps, but here is what makes me believe he was and FBI informant: the January 6th committee is trying to subpoena all kinds of people to find out if there was a conspiracy to invade the capitol building on January 6th, and Epps is prominently featured in two videos advocating exactly that plan on January 5th and January 6th. Were I Nancy Pelosi, Epps would be the very first person I would subpoena; additionally, the Garland DoJ is actively investigating this "plot" according to the AG himself, and yet they are arrested and sent to jail people who simply walked in after the doors were breached/opened, took selfies and left, and Ray Epps, who is clearly identified inciting exactly these actions, hasn't been raided by the FBI and is a free man facing no charges, while other people are being held for far less serious ones.
When I think about it, there really is only one reason that, at this point in time that makes much sense, Epps hasn't been subpoenaed by Congress or arrested by the FBI- he was working for the FBI- they don't arrest their informants, as we learned with the Whiterm "kidnap" case.
The most useful information in the Revolver article is the timeline presented. Read it just for the timeline, or find some better source for that, because all the random pictures, videos, and reports have to be put in order to make sense.
"Go INTO the Capitol" - Is what Ray Epps said, a few times - in a strange way.
"Go to the Capitol" - is not the same as "Go INTO the Capitol"
Does this need to be pointed out?
Yancey Ward @ 11:03
Exactly.
If there are people on film persuading others to go "INTO THE CAPITOL" - which is now considered a crime in and of itself - the man doing the asking would be in deep trouble.
OR AT LEAST WOULD BE OF INTEREST TO NANCY AND HER CLAN.
— "Go INTO the Capitol" - Is what Ray Epps said, a few times - in a strange way.—
But hundreds of protesters were *allowed* into the Capitol, which makes that not exactly a smoking gun, though from what I’ve read, the prisoners include some who did not go in, and some who were allowed in, so why not Epps?
>Ann Althouse said...
I find Revolver offputting.<
Why exactly? What do you know about Revolver?
"I asked for what is written at Revolver that is new. I asked someone to do for me with regard to Revolver what I did for you with regard to the NYT. So far, no one seems willing even to try. That's why my working assumption is that there's nothing for me to see over there. Prove me wrong. Don't just tell me they have video and pix. Put in writing specific assertions that are new and probative."
No one asks you to describe what the NYTimes is doing with a story. I appreciate that you do this because I don't have a subscription the NYTimes, but if I had a subscription, I wouldn't need to read your posts about NYTimes stories for anything other than your opinion about them. As The Revolver isn't behind a paywall, you can read it for yourself, which you should as you are expecting someone else to do it for you.
The New York Times and the Washington Post have been propaganda rags for the Democratic Party for who knows how long. It's amusing that you still expect to get the truth from them. Especially after the years of the Russian hoax.
Too snobbish to read icky alternative new sources, and you criticize your loyal readers for not being able to write compelling investigative journalism for you. Goodness, how are you ever going to find the whole story when it's not where you want to find it?
What if the guys next to him chanting "Fed, Fed, Fed," are Feds too? That would not be unheard of. I'd want to see footage from the day though.
For those who think Epps is being allowed to go free because all he did was advocate "going into the Capitol", ask yourself this- what would the FBI and Pelosi do if they had even a minor elected or appointed Republican official (or even just a conservative media person) on video or texting/e-mailing saying the exact same things?
Wouldn't Pelosi at least want to know if Epps was following some higher-ups' directions? I think the answer is obvious- she would want to know, unless, of course, those higher-ups were, inconveniently, law enforcement officials whose purposes weren't sincere protest.
I saw the Epps videos months before he was outed on, what I have heard, was 4Chan- so the FBI couldn't ignore those videos in the Winter and Spring of 2021, and that is why he was put on the most wanted Jan 6th list, only to be removed without comment a week or two after he was identified in the public realm. Again, why hasn't Congress subpoenaed him? Why hasn't the FBI raided and arrested him?
"Why hasn't the FBI raided and arrested him?"
Too busy going after parents going to school board meetings. THEY are the REAL terrorists.
Ice Nine said...
>Ann Althouse said...
I find Revolver offputting.<
Why exactly? What do you know about Revolver?
1. They haven't blatantly lied to Ann's face multiple times.
2. Not Ann's tribe.
James K said...
It does suggest though that there was more going on than the current "insurrection" narrative suggests.
Greenwald has an interesting angle on this. He only suggests that 1/6 got used as leverage against Trump so he wouldn’t pardon Snowden and Assange. Which naturally raises the question of whether that was part of the plan to begin with.
“all signs are pointing in the direction of him pardoning Snowden, for sure. And maybe Assange. And then suddenly this preposterous impeachment proceeding to impeach a president who was on his way out anyway, emerged precisely because it gave them the leverage to threaten Trump and say that they would convict him if he did any of those things.
And that is why he left office without doing what you can tell from that video he knows he should have done.”
https://systemupdate.substack.com/p/video-transcript-the-semi-inside
****************************8
Every word of that is completely insane, and only goes to demonstrate how powerfully sealed Glenn's bubble is. Everything and everyone always comes back to his greatest hits from years ago. It has to somehow be about Snowden, because everything must be about Snowden (i.e., Glenn).
To the professor's point:
You can go to the FBI site (https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence). They have pictures of people of interest. You can sort by three categories- wanted for assault on police, wanted for assault on media, and arrested. There are 1566 pictures; you have to load three pages to get all of them. I could not find Ray Epps. (You can do a Ctrl-F to search the page by number.) The are also pictures with no caption on why they are posted. For example, # 1 and # 2 are way at the bottom with just their number and no status.
Not sure what my point is, other than the I doubt Ray Epps' is the only picture that has disappeared.
There is footage of Epps on January 6th at revolver.news. There's a lot of confusion about what was going on on that day, but if others are being questioned, searched, charged and held, he should be too.
Arturo Ui said...Every word of that is completely insane, and only goes to demonstrate how powerfully sealed Glenn's bubble is. Everything and everyone always comes back to his greatest hits from years ago. It has to somehow be about Snowden, because everything must be about Snowden (i.e., Glenn).
1/8/22, 12:03 PM
Maybe it is YOU who needs to pop your own bubble.
At 0:32 seconds in the 4chan video you linked, Ray Epps is standing next to John Earle Sullivan.
Coincidence, I'm sure.
Your first two links take me to a Blogger site.
I went over to Revolver.
In about the 1st 6paragraphs, I found out that it was reported that Epps confessed on camera that “something” was taking place the next day and encouraging people to go to it. Taped actively orchestrating elements of the very 1st breach @12:50- while there was still 20 minutes left in Trump’s speech. Also, I read that on the day of… Epps breached the 1st barriers 1 minute after the FBI was diverted to looking for the 2 pipe bombs reported to have been found.
One minute.
I’m busy- didn’t read further… I think the reason people are suggesting you go to this site is because the density of info is impressive. And difficult to explain. The videos are the ammo.
Arturo Ui: "Every word of that is completely insane,..."
Previous claims that were labeled "insane" but shown to be true:
- Hillary and her crew paid for the hoax dossier
- The FBI lied on warrant applications to spy in Trump
- No, Adam Schiff has not seen incontrovertible "evidence" of collusion
- Yes, the FBI really was running the Hutaree Militia hoax case and the hoax Whitmer kidnapping plot
- Yes, that really is Hunter's laptop and Hunter's videos and data
- Yes, the ChiComs really did weaponize a bat virus in Wuhan at their Wuhan-based bat virus bio-warfare lab.
This list, just over the last 6 years, could have a thousand entries.
But the lefties have their newest hoax, even as they have not discarded their previous hoaxes.
And this hoax is their ONLY hope for the 2022 election, so its time to go for broke!
Btw, anyone else noticing all the "civil war," talk being bandied about by the legacy media at thesame time the lefties have defined "democracy" as only when the dems win?
Kind of hard to miss.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/proud-boys-leader-government-informant-records-show-75525943
According to Mainstream news outlets, Reuters, NY Post, etc.: The leader of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, was (is?) a "fed," apparently. Approximately half the guys in the Whitmer plot were feds. Based on that, I would be surprised if there weren't feds working together (conspiring?) to stoke the idiots to do something insanely stupid and dangerous on Jan. 6. (It's what they do, it seems.)
This is not to argue that the rioters weren't culpable - they are, of course. But if there were feds agitating the crowd to go inside, then the deep state's failure to provide extra security becomes nefarious (they wanted to make the Trumpsters look as bad as possible), as opposed to just grossly negligent.
He isn't really all that younger than anyone, but appears to be a full head taller than most.
Easy for him to be spotted in a crowd...
By the way AI, whatever happened to all those videos Epstein had of movers and shakers that suddenly, gosh darn the bad luck, have gone "missing"? (Wink wink)
Next up for AI: OMG ITS COMPLETELY INSANE TO THINK THE GOVT IS COVERING UP FOR SOME PEOPLE!
With followers like AI and Freder, why wouldnt the powers that be believe they can do whatever they want?
'He's not inciting action now, but talking about an event the next day.'
He urges people into the building on 1/6 as well.
Either way, if entering a building is illegal, why is promoting trespassing not illegal?
"I didn't murder the man myself, your honor, I just asked my friend to do it for me."
I don't think that would go over too well in court...
'So the real question is why wasn't he arrested? I presume it's because HE NEVER ENTERED THE BUILDING. His participation was in the form of speech (and maybe going through an outdoor barrier).'
From what I've read, many people were arrested and are being prosecuted that did not enter the building.
There is some magic perimeter that forms a 'danger zone' outside the building.
If you were spotted in that zone, and whether you entered the building or not, you would be arrested and prosecuted.
Drago said...
Btw, anyone else noticing all the "civil war," talk being bandied about by the legacy media at thesame time the lefties have defined "democracy" as only when the dems win?
************************
LOL, it was Trump who repeatedly said that the only election result he would respect was one that he won. Nice try, though.
Also, in the blogposts immediately following last year’s “Insurrection” gateway has info that I added to the the threads here. Many, many were video shot by the little puke Sullivan including in the corridor by the doors Ashli was entering and then killed. His footage captured that that day.
His footage captured so much.
He should be in jail.
I see the broccoli king has returned from hiatus.
I had a bet with him which I lost. With him in the wind,I had no way to pay it off
I donated $5,the bet, to Ann. I did this on Jan 2.
Receipt on request
I do not think I was wrong, that pedjt will replace Harris then Biden. I still think that will happen but am unwilling now to predict the timing.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
'It's the continuing investigation that Garland referred to when confronted with the video.'
Such bullshit.
Like the 'continuing investigation' into Hunter's laptop?
That's where everything goes to die...'I can't possibly comment about an ongoing investigation.'
Except these political hot potato investigations never end and are never resolved.
Like I said, a cop-out and total bullshit.
"I didn't murder the man myself, your honor, I just asked my friend to do it for me."
That actually happened when the girlfriend of a young man encouraged him to stay in his exhaust- filled car so he could kill himself- remember? I forget their names, but it was blogged about here by Althouse. I can’t remember, I think she wasn’t found guilty. I feel badly about not remembering.
thomas caldwell, a career fbi agent with a security clearance, was held in solitary for 49 days
the times has stuck up for lenin for mao for fidel, for the sandinistas except for shirley christian for ho, for pol pot, except for schamberg
"Point of clarification. You didn't have to enter the building on Jan 6 to get arrested. You only needed to breach the "secure" perimter (low temporary fence) to be in violation. The bulk of the effort has gone to those who entered the building, but others outside the building have been arrested and detained without speedy trial."
Please list arrests that fall into this category and be specific about whether these people are accused of other acts beyond just going past the fence.
The DoJ has a list of capital breach cases here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
It appears that the complaints against BROWN, Jeremy; BILLINGSLEY, Steven; and GENCO, Raechel do not involve entering the building itself, but rather just the outside perimeter. There may be others; I didn't go through every complaint.
AI: "LOL, it was Trump who repeatedly said that the only election result he would respect was one that he won. Nice try, though."
So, your argument now is that Trump made the legacy media types write about how lefties see a civil war coming and/or we are already in one?
Trump made them do it, because of course he did. In precisely the same way he said to drink bleach and to peacefully protest, which is of course, according to leftists like yourself, incitement to riot.
Got it.
Nice try though.
AI: "LOL, it was Trump who repeatedly said that the only election result he would respect was one that he won. Nice try, though."
This ones for AI:
Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'
--Aug, 2020
snip: "WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton said in a new interview that Joe Biden should not concede the 2020 presidential election “under any circumstances," anticipating issues that could prolong knowing the final outcome."
According to AI, Trump made Hillary say that. Hillary lost all agency and free will because Trump.
AI: "LOL, it was Trump who repeatedly said that the only election result he would respect was one that he won. Nice try, though."
NEWS ANALYSIS Nov 3, 2020 7:28 AM EST
Biden's campaign says that there's no way they will concede on election night
Jen O'Malley Dillon, Joe Biden's Campaign manager, considers a Trump victory an impossibility so much so that even were he declared the winner on election night, Biden would not accept it.
So many receipts, so little time.
Althouse, I also don’t want to navigate to Revolver and read the article again but as I recall they go into great detail about all the known FBI informants among the leadership of all of Inga’s favorite boogeymen, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and others. Nearly all leaders of all allegedly White Supremacy groups are Feds, and Epps close association with many is worth reading part 2 of the ‘volver story. A lot of interlocking associations amongst Feds and fake hate groups.
So, to get back on thread track, we have established:
- Ray Epps was within the Capital perimeter area within which protestors have been arrested and charged
- Ray Epps is clearly, via video evidence, was engaging in unlawful activity as described by the relevant statutes
- Was seen coordinating with at least one known antifa member who was also dressed up in Trump garb
- Assisted in pulling down the barricades that would have kept the people walking over from the Trump rally from getting close to the Capital building itself (well, that was some fortuitous positioning, eh?)
- Was placed on the Most Wanted List and then removed
.....
And now remains blissfully carrying on at his AZ ranch where 2 reporters engaged him with questions.....and then the FBI "helpfully" sent FBI agents to harass........the reporters!!!
Oh, well, nothing to see here. No evidence of anything nefarious happening with the FBI on that one.
"I didn't murder the man myself, your honor, I just asked my friend to do it for me."
That actually happened when the girlfriend of a young man encouraged him to stay in his exhaust- filled car so he could kill himself- remember? I forget their names, but it was blogged about here by Althouse. I can’t remember, I think she wasn’t found guilty. I feel badly about not remembering.
Pam Smart. Still serving life, too…
anything short of a firebomb, as with those molotov throwing attys, did they find who set fire to stl johns church .the bureau seems fine with, now non violent persons parading through a government building that was open, well that's one step too far,
wait that was the one who hired two teens to kill her husband or something,
Drago said...
AI: "LOL, it was Trump who repeatedly said that the only election result he would respect was one that he won. Nice try, though."
NEWS ANALYSIS Nov 3, 2020 7:28 AM EST
Biden's campaign says that there's no way they will concede on election night
Jen O'Malley Dillon, Joe Biden's Campaign manager, considers a Trump victory an impossibility so much so that even were he declared the winner on election night, Biden would not accept it.
So many receipts, so little time.
********************
Why on earth would Biden concede on Election Night when everyone knew it was going to take many days if not weeks to complete the counting of the votes? How stupid are you?
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/michelle-carter-suicide-text-case-boyfriend-conrad-roy-released-from-jail-today-2020-01-23/
Thank u for that…
I was talking about this one, though.
To me, suicide is murder. Self- murder.
AI: "Why on earth would Biden concede on Election Night when everyone knew it was going to take many days if not weeks to complete the counting of the votes? How stupid are you?"
LOL
That's your fallback? I'm guessing this is the reason you are still a collusion nutjob and still thinks the ChiComs are complete innocents with the virus they unleashed on the world and why you still think Hunters laptop was russian disinformation.
Nice try though.
2Drago:
“How stupid are you?”
And that sums up a conversation w/a leftist in a nutshell. They do not care about the facts.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/national/capitol-riots/capitol-rioter-john-sullivan-pleads-not-guilty-wants-90k-back-from-doj-jayden-x-ashli-babbitt/65-38fcc119-b849-4b96-ae36-5eed7f3475bf
There’s a short journalistic video that’s informative in this article and w/footage showing how Sullivan was instrumental in moving the people all the way to the chamber doors. Pretty f/ed up on how simple it all seemed for a supposed insurrection.
Professora says : You have to provide suspicious minds with reason to believe that you investigated to the point that if he were a government agent, you'd have figured it out.
----------
why assume they have not figured it out? knew already no figuring required!
why assume they are not government agent themselves?
“ "One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter" How do they know he is a Trump supporter?”
I said the same thing to Meade.
I’m not sure what’s the journalistic rule for things like that. You can’t have articles larded with qualifiers like “he says” but I think this was one that really mattered. If he is what some claim, he would lie on this point.
AI to Drago: "“How stupid are you?”
farmgirl: "And that sums up a conversation w/a leftist in a nutshell. They do not care about the facts."
The lefties ask "How stupid are you?" when in reality they mean: Why won't you just accept lefty narratives and Party lines?
And this is where it’s headed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7RnH1_NuRU
Drago said...
AI: "Why on earth would Biden concede on Election Night when everyone knew it was going to take many days if not weeks to complete the counting of the votes? How stupid are you?"
LOL
That's your fallback? I'm guessing this is the reason you are still a collusion nutjob and still thinks the ChiComs are complete innocents with the virus they unleashed on the world and why you still think Hunters laptop was russian disinformation.
Nice try though.
****************************
But you're obviously cool with all this, right? You're a complete hypocrite.
A list of the times Trump has said he won't accept the election results or leave office if he loses
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
"One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter" How do they know he is a Trump supporter?”
Althouse: "I said the same thing to Meade."
The best agent provocateurs are the ones who have a long standing or pre-established relationship with the targeted groups and for whom there might be some enticement or leverage the FBI can offer/threaten/cajole with to get these individuals to do what the FBI wants.
And given the extraordinarily close working and conniving relationship the FBI has developed with the democraticals over the last several decades, that could also mean promises of some other payoff/protection for insider/informant/provocateur.
For instance, corrupt democratical operative Kevin Clinesmith, the FBI agent who just so happened have worked on multiple controversial "investigations" (actually cover ups or hatchet jobs): Hillary Clinton's email "investigation" coverup, Trump-Russia collusion Setup/hatchetjob, and the Mueller crew's setup/hatchetjob.
Clinesmith was the one who altered the CIA's response re: Carter Page's lie filled corrupted FISA warrant.
What did Clinesmith get? Complete protection. A minor slap on the wrist, no jail time, no real financial penalty, his legal fees paid for him, and his suspension from the Bar has already been removed so he returns to "good standing".
Hey, remember not that long ago when saying that the Carter Page warrants to the FISA court were corrupted and we were told by the entirety of the Althouse lefties that was "TOTALLY INSANE!!!eleventy!11!1!!"
Good times, good times.
AI: "But you're obviously cool with all this, right? You're a complete hypocrite.
A list of the times Trump has said he won't accept the election results or leave office if he loses"
The complete hypocrite calls me a complete hypocrite! Because of course he/she/xe does!
The democraticals just spent 6 years on a corrupted russia collusion hoax, which you still believe in, passionately apparently. And those same democraticals have said they would never accept any result where Trump would win, up to and including the democraticals who called Trump illegitimate throughout his entire presidency!
But I'm the hypocrite!
LOL
You can't even admit the collusion hoax was a hoax, can you? Go ahead! Amaze us.....we'll wait.....
Goodness, how are you ever going to find the whole story when it's not where you want to find it?
--------
maybe Professora prefers searching near the lamp post : since the brighter-gas-lighting shows things is so much clearer
Narayanan: "Goodness, how are you ever going to find the whole story when it's not where you want to find it?"
I just chalk it up to Althouse being in professor mode and she wants her students to spoon feed her the information that, honestly, she's not really thrilled about because, lets face it, it raises lots of questions the answers to which are not exactly palatable to some on the nominal democrat liberal side of the aisle.
But still, she did post this, so, there's that.
Wearing a MAGA hat at Trump's insurrection tour of the Capitol is Prima facial evidence of undercover agent prevaricators. There were thousands of them. The only true Trump Patriots were the handful disguised as Antifa FBI false flag psyops operators.
Althouse said about what yours truly said:
“"One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter" How do they know he is a Trump supporter?”
I said the same thing to Meade.
I’m not sure what’s the journalistic rule for things like that. You can’t have articles larded with qualifiers like “he says” but I think this was one that really mattered. If he is what some claim, he would lie on this point."
Good to see we noticed the same problem. But I would say that no "journalistic rule" of any sort was applied here: I believe the article simply stated an assumption that fit the narrative, and I do not think the journalist(s) had independent evidence to confirm the point. An editor applying a "journalistic rule" would have insisted on confirmation on an issue that obviously "really mattered." Including actual evidence of some sort would have strengthened the narrative, and so is likely to have been included if it existed.
Of course, Epps could lie if confronted, but that would cause major complications--if he explicitly confirmed he was a Trump supporter, that would make it even stranger that he was not being pursued in any way by either the FBI or the January 6 committee.
Hypothesis: the NYT knows more inconvenient facts than it lets on.
All this talk about FBI informants has got me wondering, who is the Fed among the commentators here? Could be me. Could be Achilles or Drago. Could be Althouse herself. Could be deep undercover Meade.
Howard: "Wearing a MAGA hat at Trump's insurrection tour of the Capitol is Prima facial evidence of undercover agent prevaricators. There were thousands of them. The only true Trump Patriots were the handful disguised as Antifa FBI false flag psyops operators."
Its always fun watching Howard and the leftists begin their long, arduous, 15-step process to accepting reality when they can no longer effectively deny it.
In this Jan 6 scenario, Howard is at Step number 5 where he has begun to shift the goalposts significantly as his earlier lies about police officers being murdered by Trump protestors (that lasted about 3 months before he couldn't pull it off anymore) and Ashli Babbitt supposedly carrying a flamethrower and grenades thru some inner congressional door to overthrow the US govt all became unsustainable.
Now, in Howard's defense, and despite many intellectual handicaps, he has, to his credit, already come off the "its a crazy conspiracy theory to think anyone at the MURDEROUS INSURRECTION was a govt agent/operator/provocateur" to the new and improved Step 5 position that "It wasn't that many of them!".
So, good for you Howard. I realize that's another in a long line of big steps you've taken (baby steps for most sentient beings of course, but big steps for you) and I want to be the first at Althouse to congratulate you!
Congrats!
I'm just waiting now for Howard and Freder and Left Bank to regale with tales of horror regarding Trump supporters who ILLEGALLY CROSSED SACRED STATE LINES!
I forgot to mention, that Step #10 in the Althouse Lefty process to accept reality is the one where the lefties completely reset to their Step 1 position for a period of time as they deal with the cognitive dissonance built up via their mountain of previous lies.
I consider it akin to stepping up to the edge of a great and deep chasm, looking over the edge into reality, and then recoiling. Hopefully to return again later in Step 11.
For an example of this, note that Left Bank and Freder both are still strong believers in collusion and Putin changing vote totals. For some, that Step 10 becomes their permanent resting place.
Alas.
All this talk about FBI informants has got me wondering, who is the Fed among the commentators here?
Couldn't be you, lefty. That's not how it works. Wear a Trump hat or carry an American flag. None of those high and tight haircuts or black socks with shorts like the FBI clowns on that fake "rally."
Gotta convince those poor chumps who believe "innocent until proven guilty" or Bill of Rights still applies.
You'll have to forgive the althouse lefties here. They still think the Lincoln Pedophile Project's tiki torch holders were "Like, Totes Legit Youngkin Supporters".
Remember, when that story first broke and the online sleuths figured out these were all democraticals but before that info finally penetrated the impenetrable skulls of leftists, we had lefties saying it was a "CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORY" that these were actually democraticals.
You see, there are lots of Howards and Left Banks and Arturo Uis running around who are always at the ready to stop pushing their own actual lunatic conspiracy theories for a short while while they attack reality as a "conspiracy theory".
"Conspiracy theory" is a lazy and useless phrase used to dismiss. Because of the experiences the last 5 years, when someone, especially a government official, cries "conspiracy theory" my first thought is "uh oh -- there is at least some truth to this. And there usually is, as a lot of commenters have pointed out (Russia hoax, FBI involvement in the Whitmer fiasco, the Epstein debacle, etc., all of which were attacked as "conspiracy theories"). One discredits conspiracy theories with substantiated facts, not disparaging
characterizations and narratives.
The unknown thing about Jan 6th is we have zero idea how many of those who actually attacked police and "Breached the capital" were Trump supporters. I'm NOT talking about the hundreds and hundreds who were let in by the Guards or Just followed the crowd and wandered around.
I'm talking about those inciting the crowd like Ray Epps. OR those who shouted at everyone to vandalize things or attack the police. How many of those were Antifa False flaggers like the Black Guy who was on CNN a couple hours after the event? How many were FBI assets? How many were just goofballs like "Buffalo Robes guy" who wanted to have fun?
We get ZERO analysis by the MSM. We get zero analysis by conservative media. All we get is the same dumb, fake story chanted over and over.
Remember the Kavanaugh hearing? Remember when Leftists roamed the Senate Halls and shut down the hearing and scared poor little Flakey Jeff Flake half to death?
Those people were FINED $35 and let go. The mob that attacked Trump's White House weren't even arrested. In fact, General Milly Vanilli refused to condemn the attackers. He didn't want to get involved in politics. LOL! The Pastor of the Church that was almost burned down was OUTRAGED that Trump visited and expressed sympathy. Peaceful protest, baby!
But AG Garland announced on Wednesday that the TOP priority for the FBI is hunting down every last one of the 700 people who trespassed on 1-6-21. Yep, TOP PRIORITY. Not financial crime. Not helping Chicago with Record number of Homocides. Nope, putting Trump supporters in Jail.
Compare and constrast. And then laugh at the Bullshit. And any idea the Liberal/Left supports the "Rule of Law".
The question, the only one that matters, is whether Epps was an FBI asset. If he was, then perhaps if someone would offer him a large enough sum of money he would come forward to not only confess but to provide sufficient evidence to show that his confession was in fact true. I should think a million dollars would do the trick. And while we are at it, perhaps similar sums should be offered to any others (if there are any others) who might have been similarly used by the FBI for the same purpose.
Were such an exposure to take place, it would almost certainly lead to a thorough reform of the FBI along with perhaps a number of other federal agencies (CIA, DOJ) who have also engaged in inappropriate partisan political activities.
It will be interesting to see what happens when and if the Republicans regain control of both houses of Congress next fall. I am thinking in terms of the kinds of Congressional investigations that might be started.
Luke Lea: "Were such an exposure to take place, it would almost certainly lead to a thorough reform of the FBI along with perhaps a number of other federal agencies (CIA, DOJ) who have also engaged in inappropriate partisan political activities."
With all due respect, there is zero chance of that ever happening. At least 50% of elected republicans fully support democraticals and the permanent/deep state.
Luke Lea: "I am thinking in terms of the kinds of Congressional investigations that might be started."
The reoublicans are directly involved. There will be nothing uncovered.
Nothing.
Remember, Paul Ryan wouldnt allow subpoenas to be issued and Ryan made sure the "Gang of 8" intel briefings purposely excluded Nunes.
McCarthy will do whatever Frank Luntz tells him to do...since they are literal "roomies".
Althouse: “So the real question is why wasn't he arrested? I presume it's because HE NEVER ENTERED THE BUILDING. His participation was in the form of speech (and maybe going through an outdoor barrier).”
“Incite: to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on,” Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
If DC has an “inciting to riot” offense and I believe it has, it would not have been necessary for Epps to enter the building. The First Amendment is not a defense to an incitement charge. Incitement is not protected speech.
Nowadays Paul Ryan spends all of his time as a Fox Board member trying to turn Fox News into CNN, but even more woke.
'It will be interesting to see what happens when and if the Republicans regain control of both houses of Congress next fall. I am thinking in terms of the kinds of Congressional investigations that might be started.'
Not much will change.
The Republicans there now have no balls.
"Were such an exposure to take place, it would almost certainly lead to a thorough reform of the FBI along with perhaps a number of other federal agencies (CIA, DOJ) who have also engaged in inappropriate partisan political activities."
I'll have what he's smoking.
"If DC has an “inciting to riot” offense and I believe it has, it would not have been necessary for Epps to enter the building. The First Amendment is not a defense to an incitement charge. Incitement is not protected speech."
Yes, but First Amendment law limits what can count as incitement!
The speech has to be “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and... likely to incite or produce such action.”
"It will be interesting to see what happens when and if the Republicans regain control of both houses of Congress next fall. I am thinking in terms of the kinds of Congressional investigations that might be started."
I understand the idea, but when has the FBI not been publicly corrupt. Do people think it was OK for J E Hoover to maintain files to blackmail government officials? or recently, the FBI Attorney who falsified evidence before the FISA court and did not even get disbarred? The FBI is golden, they are immune to justice.
The Snopes video (at 8:49 comment) clearly show Epps trying to diffuse tensions and calm things down. Of course, what better way for an agent-provocateur to conceal his true identity than to "act" like a peace maker. The FBI is brilliant.
“Blogger Ann Althouse said...
‘The speech has to be “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and... likely to incite or produce such action.’”
Right. It has to incite to riot. If it does, it is not protected speech protected by the First Amendment. And Epps didn’t have to enter the building for the offense to occur.
If Epps nor Sullivan was inciting rioting/violence - then how can the narrative be insurrection?
The video in the article I copy/pasted was definitely encouraging people to move forward while kissing cop ass as a journalist/media advocate.
And I’d like to add- since the FBI is a subject here- how many Democrats/dem supporters have been fixed and Swatted?
jim5301: "The Snopes video (at 8:49 comment) clearly show Epps trying to diffuse tensions and calm things down. Of course, what better way for an agent-provocateur to conceal his true identity than to "act" like a peace maker."
LOL!
What better way for a Presidential Candidate to make the nation aware of the dangers of Russia than to create a hoax dossier and have her minions in the federal government use that hoax dossier to "help" the guy who won the election. You know, as a friendly "peace-maker" act after losing the election.
There are no better moron lefties than the Althouse blog moron lefties.
Truly, we are blessed.
Althouse: "Yes, but First Amendment law limits what can count as incitement!"
Oh, don't worry about that. The lefties are busy at work to make sure that changes as well in order to nail Trump.
After all, why should the 1st Amendment survive the assault on the Constitution by the left when all the rest of the Bill of Rights is headed for the dustbin of history?
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