January 8, 2022

The Ray Epps conspiracy theory story is powerfully viral — so let's see how it's handled by The New York Times.

I saw this, linked at Instapundit, here. My instinct is to compare what the NYT says about it, and there's a substantial discussion in a piece published yesterday: "The Next Big Lies: Jan. 6 Was No Big Deal, or a Left-Wing Plot/How revisionist histories of Jan. 6 picked up where the 'stop the steal' campaign left off, warping beliefs about what transpired at the Capitol." 

I'm reading this for the first time, so I'll excerpt and react as I go. There's a heading, "The Case of Ray Epps," but the first 2 paragraphs are general material about who is inclined to believe conspiracy theories about January 6th, so it's not as substantial as it looked at first glance. 

Next:
Adherents have built up characters to support their claims that antifa infiltrators or federal agents were the ones who whipped up the mob, in some instances doing so as events were unfolding in Washington. One is a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter who was captured on video the night of Jan. 5 urging his compatriots to “go into the Capitol” the next day.

Some in the crowd responded approvingly: “Let’s go!” rings out one reply.

“Peacefully,” Mr. Epps said, just before others began chanting “Fed, Fed, Fed!” at the man, who at age 60 stood out in the far-younger crowd.

There's no link to the video, so readers can't see how much "urging" there was or why there was enough to provoke some people — "others" — to call him out as a federal agent and to do it by chanting — as opposed to confronting him and arguing with him. The only reason I'm not linking to the video myself is that I didn't easily find something that wasn't either cut down or edited into commentary.

Mr. Epps, who lives in Queen Creek, Ariz., where he owns Rocking R Farms and the Knotty Barn, a wedding and event venue, according to PolitiFact, appears in another video taken the next day. He is seen yelling to a crowd: “OK, folks, spread the word! As soon as the president is done speaking, we go to the Capitol. The Capitol is this direction.”

No link for that video either.  

Both moments went largely unnoticed until June 17, when a poster on the online message board 4chan put up the video of Mr. Epps from Jan. 5, writing, “This Fed was caught on camera encouraging the crowd to raid the Capitol on the next day.”

Ah! Video this time. I watched the video (which I've seen before), and I get the sense that the man speaking, whoever he is, is insincere. By the way, the reaction of the people around him indicates that people did not come to the event with a plan to enter the Capitol. They seem as though they'd never even thought of the idea and consider it obviously stupid.

The anonymous poster added, “Who is this man?”

Another person then identified him as Mr. Epps. Soon after, the video and Mr. Epps’s name were posted in a Twitter thread, and a new conspiracy theory began its journey into the Republican mainstream.

The NYT has independently verified that the man is Ray Epps, right? I myself do not know.

Four months later, on Oct. 21, the video was being shown during a congressional hearing. There, Representative Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican, used it to question Attorney General Merrick B. Garland about whether federal agents had acted as agitators on Jan. 6.

Within days, stories about Mr. Epps began appearing on websites like Revolver News... The Epps story gained further promotion on the far-right cable network One America News... and, far more widely, in [Tucker] Carlson’s “Patriot Purge.”

The NYT doesn't link to those places. I presume it has a policy about which sites get links and which don't. Readers can easily find those places if they want. Question whether it's good journalism to link to some but not others — to have, apparently, a black list (or a white list).

To date, no evidence has emerged linking Mr. Epps to the F.B.I. or any other government agency.

The absence of evidence is never going to convince people that there's no connection because one can easily make inferences from the lack of evidence. The connection, if any, would have been hidden. Perhaps it was hidden competently. Perhaps those who should have looked are in on the conspiracy.  

In fact, his known connections are decidedly anti-government: In 2011, Mr. Epps served as the president of the Arizona Oath Keepers, the largest chapter of the militia group whose members were among the mob that attacked the Capitol, though it is not clear if he remains a member of the group.

It's not clear? Find out! Let's hear more about that. How do we know he didn't infiltrate the group? The NYT set out to demonstrate that the Ray Epps story is a conspiracy theory, but it isn't doing what it needs to do to convince a close reader that there's nothing here. I realize it's hard to prove a negative, but if you want to squelch an actively spreading conspiracy theory you have to do much more than assure complacent readers that there's nothing to see here. You have to provide suspicious minds with reason to believe that you investigated to the point that if he were a government agent, you'd have figured it out.

Yet in the days leading up to Thursday’s anniversary, and on the anniversary itself, the speculation around Mr. Epps only seemed to snowball, amplified on countless social media posts, on Mr. Bannon’s podcast — part of a possibly “massive false flag operation,” as his website put it — and on Mr. Carlson’s prime-time show on Fox News on Wednesday and again on Thursday. “Is this guy going to be charged? Where is he?” Mr. Carlson asked. “It’s a legitimate question, why won’t they answer it?”

The section of the article on Ray Epps ends right there, with Carlson's questions, and no answer to them. I'd say at this point that I don't like referring to the story as a "conspiracy theory." I'm rewriting my post title. It's only a conspiracy theory if it's augmented with assertions of fact that are not backed up with evidence.

212 comments:

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Yancey Ward said...

"Yes, but First Amendment law limits what can count as incitement!"

I completely agree, but does anyone think that would be a bar to this DoJ arresting a "Republican" in this situation. I certainly don't think this.

farmgirl said...

I worded my incitement comment poorly.
What I meant was: if neither Epps nor Sullivan were found to be inciting a riot against the Capitol and Capitol police, which they clearly were as per numerous videos proof- then no one on that day was inciting riots/violence. Cannot have it both ways.

Drago said...

farmgirl: "then no one on that day was inciting riots/violence. Cannot have it both ways."

Ah. I see the problem.

You believe reason, logic and the law are still relevant to the left.

That is such a 2021 racist white supremacist thing to think.

Good news though! Your upcoming Struggle Session is likely covered under your insurance plan.

farmgirl said...

You know that joke about the little girls, each presented w/a stall full of horse poop?
The 1st one whines and complains about the amount of manure w/no pony in sight…
The 2nd says- where’s the shovel?? With this much poop there’s got to be a pony in here somewhere!!!

I’m the 2nd…

Greg The Class Traitor said...

tim in vermont said...
I saw the video, he said "I will probably be in jail tomorrow." It's interesting that the New York Times is running cover for this guy, who urged on people to go into the building, instead of agitating for his imprisonment.

Thank you Tim, for the "obvious" thought I hadn't had:

If the NYT thought that Epps was a Trump supporting Republican who urged people to riot, then the NYT would be agitating for Epps to be in jail, and attacking the Biden DoJ for letting him run free.

It follows that the NYT, which has lots of sources in the Biden DoJ, thinks Epps is on their side.

Now, I can come up with some weird conspiracy theories about why the NYT wants us to think he's a Fed when he's not. But the only reasonable, as opposed to "kook conspiracy theory" belief about teh situation is that Epps is a Fed and an agent provocateur

Lurker21 said...

Pam Smart got a high school kid to kill her husband.

Michelle Carter badgered her (ex?) boyfriend into killing himself.

So did Inyoung You.

It must be something in the water around here.

-----

Molly Ball, the "fortified election" lady had a rare moment of lucidity:


Molly Ball
@mollyesque
· Jan 6
I’ve thought a lot about this: Was Jan. 6 an attempted coup or just a police breakdown? If the police had been properly prepared, Jan. 6 would have been just another rally, a day no one remembers.


Mickey Kaus retweets.

Mickey Kaus
@kausmickey
·
Jan 6
I mean, what if massed troops hadn't blocked the October, 1967 March on the Pentagon and protesters had gotten in? Most would have been peaceful but some would have been determinedly violent and wreaked havoc. It'd still be a huge deal today.


I'm reminded a little of Chris Cuomo's stupid comment: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful."

Protests are indeed supposed to be peaceful. One reason why so many are is because the authorities are prepared for them and contain them. The counter and bring under control the protestors who want violence.

Obviously, last year there were some people intent on violence. There were some others who were just taking a stroll in the capitol. But how much of what happened was a police failure and how much do we put in other categories? We are a long way from knowing.

BTW: That was the Pentagon protest Norman Mailer attended. He was arrested, but escaped being labeled an insurrectionist because the police were prepared and the building wasn't breached. I wonder if he was disappointed.

wes george said...

There may be nothing in the Revolver report that isn't available scattered around the internet. What's interesting is that Revolver assembles a coherent hypothesis from the evidence that has been assiduously avoided by the PBS and NYT narratives.

A useful hypothesis not only presents a parsimoniously likely explanation, but also asks interesting questions that further the inquiry. For instance, who is the scaffolding man who is seen with a team directing the marchers to form a crush up against the capitol building. Who are the guys waiting at the Peace Monument gate for hours earlier while Trump is speaking, but then seem to be activated to begin to purposely remove fencing and "off limits" signage when the crowds began to arrive.

Logically, if the scaffolding man, Ray Epps and the other Persons of Interests were Trump operatives advancing a premeditated coup, would not our intrepid mainstream media have been all over this story months ago? Of course they would have.

The fact that the FBI, media and congressional investigation are all uninterested in many of the most strategically important crowd leaders of the day is the best evidence we have yet that the Revolver hypothesis is useful.

It naive to suggest that no one is interested in Epps, et al, because they didn't violate the law by their speech inciting the crowd. If these apparently crowd-controlling ring leaders could be linked to Trump's movement the interest level would be over the top. So clearly, they are not Trump's men at work, or they would be Exhibit #1 for the prosecution. So who are they???

Ironically, the Democrats might be right. What happened on 1/6, might well be far worst than 9/11, at least in terms of national betrayal and treachery, as well, as the biggest threat to our democracy.

wendybar said...

farmgirl said...
And this is where it’s headed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7RnH1_NuRU

1/8/22, 2:13 PM

That man had better watch it, because Progressives ARE the treasonest ones, and Hillary should be the first to be hung.

wendybar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wendybar said...

Howard said...
Wearing a MAGA hat at Trump's insurrection tour of the Capitol is Prima facial evidence of undercover agent prevaricators. There were thousands of them. The only true Trump Patriots were the handful disguised as Antifa FBI false flag psyops operators.

1/8/22, 2:36 PM

No. There were feds wearing orange neon hats to differentiate themselves and the other feds would know who they are...https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/08/where-are-the-neon-hatted-proud-boys/

wendybar said...

THIS is what a REAL insurrection looks like. Also, look into the riots on Inauguration day in 2017. More damage to DC done that day then on 1/6/21.
Why did those protesters get off with a slap of the wrist?
Because they were working for the Deep State, doing what the progressives wanted them to do to disrupt this country. https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/01/flashback-may-2020-assault-on-the-white-house-60-secret-service-agents-wounded-president-trump-taken-to-secure-bunker/

farmgirl said...

But, wendybar:
AOC was raped!! … or something…

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