This is the latest episode of WaPo's "Date Lab" — where they match 2 people up for a date, then get separate reports and ratings from the participants — "Date Lab: He made it clear that his end goal was marriage."
He gave the date a 4 (on a 5-point scale) and she gave it a 2. I thought it was truly hilarious that he brought up his interest in Jordan Peterson. It's one thing to bring up marriage on a first date, but to bring up Jordan Peterson... that's really sticking your neck out.
The commenters over there are not amused. Example: "I've never commented on Date Lab before, but my lord, I can't believe you wasted this lovely, smart, kind woman on a Jordan Peterson creep! Even if you Date Lab people didn't realize he was so right wing, the 'I want a scientist who is also a yoga instructor'" — he did say that would be his "dream date" — "should have clued you in that this guy was not rational about women. (I'm not meaning to insinuate here that female scientists can't be flexible and in shape, but there is something super creepy about a man asking for a yoga instructor scientist). I feel like you people owe her a big apology and a second set-up."
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Nowadays it’s best to lead your politics. Put it before ‘Hi my name is…’ Saves time and aggravation.…
There is an old saying, "Better to be hung for stealing a sheep than just a lamb." This applies to dating, too. Better to face relationship killers up front than later.
Lol, someone didn't wash his penis!
"Date Lab: He made it clear that his end goal was marriage."
Isn't that everybody's end goal? That is kind of the definition of 'dating'. Finding a spouse to rear a family.
I thought it was truly hilarious that he brought up his interest in Jordan Peterson. It's one thing to bring up marriage on a first date, but to bring up Jordan Peterson... that's really sticking your neck out.
What I find funny is the total lack of honesty that we see wherever progressives express themselves. Wouldn't it be nice to be in a society that operates in good faith? But the one we have is one where the people who claim to be The Most Tolerant are actually the least tolerant.
Here you have a "scientist" who is 100% ignorant about something (in this case, what good can be learned from Jordan Petersen), and she dismisses the views of someone who apparently has much more information about it (is she dismissing an 'expert'? Gasp! It's unclear.) based on what I suspect is a superficial investigation.
Is it hilarious that she would point to Sotomayor as the person she most admires? Don't ask.
Stop being assholes and maybe things will be a little better.
I’m just more of a private person,' she said. Self-improvement '“is not something I would share with someone on a first date.' I agree with Hibbah on this. I’d never go beyond small talk on a first date and self improvement is way beyond that. Sticking his neck out? Indeed, and making himself way too vulnerable.
(That said, I’d never date anyone who was willing to take part in Date Lab.)
“... lovely, smart, kind woman ....”
This is the state of things, isn’t it? The pinks are clear that people who seem adverse to Peterson must be “lovely, smart and kind” despite the lack of evidence.
Well actually, there is some evidence. She admires Sonia Sotomayor, the affirmative action Justice and political activist whose ignorance of, among other things, the 10th Amendment is gobsmacking and who lies, without apology, about COVID consequences in front of the world.
People are so stupid, sometimes.
Peterson is not right- wing… he’s just not a Leftist. It’s like trying to label a listing ship that keeps sinking farther left, anyway. Talk about rudderless-ness.
I think if anyone has listened to Peterson interviewed- they should also listen to his wife, Tammy. They’ve a lovely relationship. Not that I know anything of the inner workings of their marriage, but they respect e/other. Poor Mustafa needs to yank his line the f outta that still, judgemental pond of a potential wife and cast somewhere beyond her shadow.
As my kids say: no bueno.
'I want a scientist who is also a yoga instructor'
I do agree with the commenter who says having a preference for a scientist is creepy.
Here were the clues, Mustafa:
1) civil servant (Lefty)
2) looks up to a dolt
3) put off by notions of self-improvement (and by forthrightness, apparently)
The perfunctory hug and "adios" were a good move, son.
It's called "attribution bias" and most everybody suffers from it in one form or another. In this case there is the assumption that everything Jordan Peterson says must be bad because he has been denounced by the people who do your thinking for you says that he is a bad person.
I suffer from it with Hillary Clinton, who does say some correct things, once in a while, even if you can only get these from Wikileaks. For instance she made the point that Putin finances a lot of "green" anti-pipeline organizations in the US and Canada, so not every word out of her mouth is a lie.
Peterson Derangement Syndrome is kind of interesting, because 12 Rules is a very helpful book, but if you live your life with emotional clarity, this is not helpful to the people trying to rule us through propaganda. I strive for "aloofness" in my personal life when it comes to politics, but if I end up on a date with a harpy leftist, or a person who has been hopelessly infected with these mind viruses that politicians are putting out, I would want to know up front. But along those lines, the WaPo comment section is not representative of real life any more than Twitter, which is more liberal than the most liberal congressional district in the United States.
She assumed Peterson... preached kindness.
doesn't he? Well? DOESN'T HE?
"The pinks are clear that people who seem adverse to Peterson must be “lovely, smart and kind” despite the lack of evidence. "
Don't be silly, if you swallowed, for instance, the lies about Russian Collusion and Trump whole, it proves you are smart and kind, lovely goes without saying.
The man should consider himself lucky. Bringing up Pederson is a good litmus test. If the women freaks out she's a dumb libtard. Throw her back in the water, throw out your line, and get a better fish.
I always find these picky urban women hilarious. Good luck with finding someone who meets your "standards". 90% of the time their high opinion of their worth is not matched by their looks or personality.
He DOES preach kindness- for sure.
Especially towards one’s own self.
Kaileh is 27 and a research associate for the government.
which means: Has a 6 figure student load?
Mustafa Acikgoz is 32 and an entrepreneur.
which means: nerd looking for trophy wife?
He rated it "a 4"; but only "as “practice” for future dates, an effort to “make the best of the situation.”"
She, on the other hand
said that Mustafa misinterpreted what she said during their conversation.
was still sussing out their potential compatibility. “I did not write him off in those first two minutes”
Mustafa said that, while the date didn’t go as he had hoped, “we still had a good time"
Hibbah gave Mustafa a hug and said it had been really nice to meet him.
“We didn’t exchange phone numbers,
In Other words...
He nixed HER, and SHE tried to find reasons for him NOT being interested ...
When she looked him(Jordan) up after the date, she found a reason to pretend it was her idea
There is a phrase to describe this... The Phrase IS: Sour Grapes
I don't blame him one bit for bringing up Jordan Peterson on their first date. Better to get it out in the open and not waste anymore time on her if that's a deal breaker for her.
“Peterson is not right- wing… he’s just not a leftist. It’s like trying to label a listing ship that keeps sinking farther left, anyway. Talk about rudderless-ness.”
Anybody who is not a leftist or a Democrat (if there is still a difference) is, to them, either right-wing or a Republican. Herd-mind labeling requires less thinking than looking at evidence. Besides, they know evil when they see it, whereas we have to analyze statements and behavior to recognize stupid.
Jordan Peterson talks about how people should grow up and be responsible.
The left hate that. The left are threatened by it.
She assumed Peterson... preached kindness.
Does Sotomayor?
She said she looks up to writer Tara Westover and Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor."
I don't know who the first person is.
But the second person is a mediocre talent who was elevated to a position because of her race and no other qualification.
So this is very informative about the person who said it.
"Where are all the good men?" is a common question. But when a good man shows up - or a man trying to be good - the complaints and criticisms start to emerge and multiply.
Reminiscent of Christ's observation in his day:
"But to what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not mourn.’ For John [the Baptist] came neither eating nor drinking [i.e. fasting and austere], and they say, ‘He has a demon’; the Son of Man [i.e. Me - Christ] came eating and drinking [i.e. socializing with everyone], and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’"
To people that won't - that refuse to live by truth, everything is dissatisfying and everyone is disappointing.
She assumed Peterson... preached kindness.
Seeking to know and speak truth is the ultimate kindness and the only possible foundation on which love can be built.
gilbar said...
which means: nerd looking for trophy wife?
Every male is looking for a trophy wife.
I believe that pejorative was created by men who were not lucky enough to land one.
>Achilles said.
"Every male is looking for a trophy wife.
I believe that pejorative was created by men who were not lucky enough to land one."<
Where's Achilles, Shallow Hal? What have you done with him?!
It's one thing to bring up marriage on a first date, but to bring up Jordan Peterson... that's really sticking your neck out. The commenters over there are not amused.
It is so interesting when Ann's tribal affiliations and proclivities are so blatantly expressed.
The underlying desperation to be one of the beautiful people is endearing.
But they will never accept you.
iowan 2 said:
"'Date Lab: He made it clear that his end goal was marriage.'
Isn't that everybody's end goal? That is kind of the definition of 'dating'. Finding a spouse to rear a family."
Look, Grandpa woke up from his nap! (Change genders as appropriate).
What are young, college educated women looking for? Here's a song that's getting a lot of airplay on alternative stations that gives a pretty good idea. "Chaise Longue" by Wet Leg.
"Mummy, daddy, look at me
I went to school and I got a degree
All my friends call it the big D
I went to school and I got the big D
I got the big D
I got the big D
I got the big D
I went to school and I got the big D"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9jeJk2UHQ
I sent a copy of Peterson's "12 rules" book to my leftist daughter wondering what her reaction would be. She loved it and called me to thank me. She is not a loony left like her FBI sister but she was a Bernie supporter in 2016.
Probably my smartest medical student was a beautiful "south Asian" girl whose parents met on an Indian dating web site. Her mother chose her father because he was the only man to post a color photo. She had an Engineering degree and was going into biomedical engineering.
I'm kind of a JP fan; as I've said before he has a solid humanistic education and outlook, and most of what he says is common-sensical. He's welcome to his spiritual buzz, but most of his ideas don't require that basis.
Mustafa played it well. If I had to start dating (what a thought) I would insist that prospective winners read my Blogger profile, and understand some of it.
Get the big things out early--I have found that a lot of people simply don't want to talk to me when they find out some of my opinions and pastimes, and that's very efficient.
I like the idea of going with who you are even knowing that some or even most potential partners will reject you for being who you are.
Far better than getting emotionally involved with someone who needs conversion to a newfound need for tolerance.
Jordan Peterson probably isn’t a good date topic, regardless of the interest and value he holds for a lot of men. You want something that can generate good back and forth conversation and few young, cute women have had the self awareness and adversity that leads you down that sort of thought trail where you can relate.
Women usually want relationship commitment (e.g. marriage) more than the man but only after the guy’s value and her comfort with him is clearly established. This guy’s being literal in his response but she panics, thinking, whoa, why would I want to get married, I barely know you!
I've never read Peterson, so have no direct, informed opinion on him - and unlike a lot of people I know that means that!
But I do notice that all the Lefties I know who have Serious Opinions About How Bad He Is also haven't read him and are just repeating what Someone Said as if it's Obviously True.
(And in one memorable case, what they "heard" was "a placard placed by a hard-left organization with a quote from him" ... where I searched for the quote, and found an entire page he'd made talking about that quote, and the context for it that utterly transformed the meaning from what the placard wanted it to be.
When you have to remove a statement from context and deliberately misrepresent it to make someone look bad, that's a clue that they don't actually look bad without you lying.)
The Righties I know who like him have actually read him, and can discuss his points and ideas - and they all summarize him as something like "grow up, clean your room, be kind".
Interesting how the sorting of society into separate subpopulations willing to date (or at the extremes, even associate) with others who do not conform is playing out among readers of WaPo (a demographic that is likely strongly left/Dem, especially among the women). Charles Murray and others have written about it in terms of sorting by class -- how dating/marriage across class lines in the US has become much less frequent (see, e.g., Coming Apart). Yet, for the WaPo women who applaud dumping a guy because he reads Peterson, the overriding reality in the US is that men (and particularly white men) are much more right/Rep than women. Female lefty intolerance will end up generating its own reward, it seems.
Jordan Peterson is nothing close to traditional right wing. He's a university professor and clinical psychologist. Neither of these professions have accepted true right wing students for 50+ years. He's an old-school protestant Christian progressive liberal actually, while the left turned into something else entirely.
Peterson believes in an internal locus of control -- you and you alone control much of your life and outcomes. This is a rock sold way of ensuring YOU WILL CREATE the best odds of success for yourself. It is also extremely threatening to those who desire equal outcomes, quotas, and focus on retribution/reparations for sins committed long ago by people long dead and often not biologically related to later European immigrants at all.
Peterson is perceived as a conservative because he focuses on what a specific person needs to do here and now for a better life. Control what you can control in life and let the rest go, or you'll go mad (or woke).
I guess "Scientist Yoga Instructor" is one of those types, like "Troubadour Warrior," Duncan Idaho in Dune. While I wouldn't mind a woman who attends yoga class, the ones I know who do, look pretty good, teaching a yoga class is a little bit of a red flag for a "Crack's old girlfriend" type.
As for "scientist," I am with Hawthorne:
Why are poets so apt to choose their mates, not for any similarity of poetic endowment, but for qualities which might make the happiness of the rudest handicraftsman as well as that of the ideal craftsman of the spirit? Because, probably, at his highest elevation, the poet needs no human intercourse; but he finds it dreary to descend, and be a stranger. - The House of the Seven Gables
A regular girl, intellectually, is just fine for me, I am not sure the the entire excerpt above reflects *exactly* how I feel about it, but I find it more true than not, which is why it struck me, I guess.
Marriage and kids should absolutely be discussed on the first date. There's no point wasting your time and ending up hurt because you never had the same plans for the future.
My husband and I discussed marriage, pets, and kids on our first date. Specifics generally aren't needed (we didn't), but I know someone who had been warned by her doctor about premature menopause after her successful cancer treatment. She really wanted kids so she was very upfront, I'm in a rush, I can't wait too long. Scared some men away, but she found someone ready.
My husband and I also talked about zombies, vampires, and werewolves on our first date, but that's just us. Others could leave such interests for later. :)
Touting the success following the cliche filled self help from a psychotic drug addict is over sharing in mixed company. It makes the woman wonder 🤔 what was he like before Peterson. Will he revert to his previous level of infantilism? Is Amway next?
Good Knowledge!
Blogger tim in vermont said...
I guess "Scientist Yoga Instructor" is one of those types, blah blah blah.
While I wouldn't mind a woman who attends yoga class, the ones I know who do, look pretty good, teaching a yoga class is a little bit of a red flag for a "Crack's old girlfriend" type.
I was thinking that for a change, I agreed with the WashPo commenters. On 2nd thought, I'm going to guess that someone on the DateLab team had a great idea in a staff meeting some months ago on how to get more attention, traffic and engagement around this feature and what they came up with was "you know, like, put people in the mix who say things like I want a scientist who is also a yoga teacher. this will drive people crazy and get them talking about us." Whoever on the DateLab team had this idea, I hand it to them, because it surely works.
"It's one thing to bring up marriage on a first date, but to bring up Jordan Peterson... that's really sticking your neck out."
I'm with the rest of the hive mind that if someone rejects you on that basic, you should be happy you find out early.
When I was dating, I didn't think about the endgame (marriage and kids). Yes, I was that unthinking. That's the way my brain works, to focus on the first thing (meet and date women), but not one thought about anything else.
Here's the key insight I learned: Our brains are wired differently.
If I had talked about it with my parents, siblings, and friends, I might have received a better education about the mating process. I may have gotten married earlier and to a different type of woman.
Fortunately, the second woman I married turned out to be incredibly compatible, and we'll be celebrating 29 years in September.
She assumed Peterson... preached kindness.
Does Sotomayor?
PEOPLE asked Sotomayor for an example of a surprising act of kindness by one of her fellow justices to help another.
"Well, yes, I will give you one prime example," she replied. "Okay. When Justice [Ruth Bader] Ginsburg's husband was ill, one of my colleagues knew that her husband was the cook in the family. She'd never been a very good cook and he was afraid she wasn't eating so he had food delivered to her every night."
"I'm a little nervous for you that it's not a more recent example, though," this reporter told her. (Ginsburg's husband, Marty, died in 2010; Ginsburg died in 2020.)
"Yes, I understand that," Sotomayor said. "But I would like to stay away from more recent examples."
Hibbah don’t like it
Rockin’ Mustafa… rockin’ Mustafa
If your end goal is marriage and you are on one of these artificial dates, why not stick you neck out? Cut to the chase and move on if necessary. If your goal is a hookup, then lie and stick something else out.
"that's really sticking your neck out"
Which is a tell on liberal female expectations. No moderate to conservative man would think a woman talking about JP sticks her neck out.
But it is a useful dating strategy, partly to help locate the date on the hot-crazy matrix, and in this case partly for discovering not so much that the girl dislikes JP but that she lives in such a bubble that she hasn't even heard of him--and has to look him up after the fact, only to declare him sorta right wing. Mustafa, my man, you escaped, count your blessings.
Presumably, Match.com can improve the odds of a decent date more than NPR.
Hopefully more people will talk about Jordan Peterson on first dates now and will emerge less confused.
We don't grasp how much we have removed the centrality and value of traditional culture from our education and lives. Peterson, not himself religious, recognizes its value. So did John Updike.
I've watched many libertarian friends turn to Christianity in recent years, the influence of being immersed through coalition in politics with social conservatives and seeing the value of their faith. There are more marriages, more children, more sanity, more happiness -- more joy -- and yet none of them have had to deviate from their own political first principles.
Object lessons are important. Both Peterson and Rush were addicted to drugs. Both were honest and humble in the aftermath, Howard. I'm sure being in the public eye makes such ordinary experiences that much more difficult, and it would be no different for you or me.
I find myself thinking a lot about Mediaeval life these days. Maybe we will emerge regaining some of the untorn cloth.
27? She should forget about finding a husband and start looking for a cat.
I didn't find Peterson particularly honest with Joe Rogan about how and why he started experimenting with benzodiazapines. Was it for sleep or mental illness? He didn't communicate any real understanding of the drugs he was taking. Sounded like a rudderless victim still dealing with the deep immaturity side effect of the druggie stupor. He still seems like a deeply troubled man.
I like Peterson. In fact, I personally introduced Joe and Jordan to this blog. I liked watching the clips of him teaching classes at University. He's a great story teller. I like his linkage of the great 19th and 20th Century thinkers with the yin yang ☯️ symbol as a metaphor for the heroes journey.
Rush Limbaugh was a gossip monger by comparison.
“she lives in such a bubble that she hasn't even heard of him”
We’re the ones in the bubble. Normal people (and especially cute mid-20’s girls) who don’t spend their time reading and commenting on blogs have never heard of him. Why would they have?
She assumed Peterson... preached kindness.
The interesting thing about this is that it was in context of Self-improvement, and in the additional context of self-improvement to be a good romantic partner, being kind is good advice for women. Kindness is at the top or near the top of the list for many men in traits they look for in a woman as potential long-term romantic partner. This isn't to say it is bad for men to be kind when it comes to being a good romantic partner, but it is almost universally a bad idea for a man to prioritize being kind in lieu being competent, or resilient when it comes to being an attractive romantic partner for a woman.
Also it boggles my mind how she can think Jordan Peterson is political but Sotomayor is not.
Rush wasn’t a Dr- nor a philosopher. I never listened to him much- no access.
Peterson is interviewed by his daughter, Mikayla- in great length about his illness and recovery. I believe Joe already knew a bit of the story. Sometimes someone just can’t move forward any more- can’t move, period. They were a prescribed medication by his Dr. and he wasn’t aware of the physical aspects of w/drawal when he tried to stop taking them.
That doesn’t make him a druggie, even if he was dependent.
Do u need laundry $$?
It might be this one:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HLWgVpmo1e0
Sonia Sotomayor she looks up to? What a ditz.
Updike didn't 'recognize the value' of traditional religion (paraphrasing Tina). He was an avowed practitioner of Episcopalianism who never hid either his religious or political beliefs. (I hope I'm not overinterpreting Tina's comment.)
I don't know what JP considers himself to be and it probably wouldn't make much difference to me. I take good ideas and/or wisdom where I find them.
Many, maybe even most, of my old friends and acquaintances have become more religious since the old days, in a process much as Tina describes, and often without changing their fundamental misunderstanding of other aspects of reality.
Stupid is as stupid does. Mamma always used to say that life's a lot like a box of Xanax. You nevah know what you gonna get.
He's a clinical psychologist and a University professor and don't know nuffin about no Xanax. That makes sense to you?
You've been snorting the glyphosate again.
I was thinking that maybe I'd get a maid
Find a place nearby for her to stay.
Just someone to keep my house clean,
Fix my meals and go away.
A maid.
A man needs a maid.
The fellow's judgement seemed sound right up to giving the date a 4 out of 5. He needs some counseling if not a full intervention.
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