From "Diet Culture Is Unhealthy. It’s Also Immoral" by philosophy professor Kate Manne (NYT).
৪ জানুয়ারী, ২০২২
"I struggle as a philosopher to reconcile my image of my body with its task in the world of being the emissary of my mind...."
"Often, I cannot bear the idea of sending out my 'soft animal' of a body, in the words of the poet Mary Oliver, to fight for feminist views that are edgy and controversial and to represent a discipline that prides itself on sharpness, clarity and precision. I feel betrayed by my soft borders.
This false binary exists partly in my own head, yes, but also very much in others’: I was recently apprised of a caption on a portrait of David Hume, the 18th-century philosopher, in an introductory philosophy textbook: 'The lightness and quickness of his mind was entirely hidden by the lumpishness of his appearance.' Thus have other fat philosophers been warned that our bodies may similarly mask our intellects.
The cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker isn’t a philosopher, but his latest book, 'Rationality,' handily demonstrates the worldview that equates thinness with reason.... [H]e chides the irrational doofus who prefers the 'small pleasur' of chowing down on lasagna now over the supposedly 'large pleasure of a slim body' in perpetuity. They 'succumb' to 'myopic discounting' of future rewards — an (ableist) term for short-term thinking, illustrated with a fatphobic example."
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Why would anyone need a Philospher to govern what they put in their mouths. Next up, Kant on going to the bathroom. "I've fallen in, and I Kant get up"
Being fat is unhealthy
Lacking self discipline with her body makes one believe she probably also lacks self discipline elsewhere
Yes, your body can do mean things to you to force you to eat. So, does she exercise? Does she work to keep her body muscled?
Eating too much you can blame on the body. Not working out, not having muscle under that fat?
That's on you (Note: It's on me, too :-( )
I'm going to guess the writer is a bit of a lard-ass.
'I'm going to guess the writer is a bit of a lard-ass.'
Ha! I think this thread is now closed : )
Btw, looked her up, and if it's the right woman, not a total fattie, but no bikini model.
Kind of normal, I'd say...
In the beginning of the piece she says she's lost 50 pounds in the past year... and her method was intermittent eating. She says there was a 30 day period when she fasted on 17 days.
You can train your mind and your body to want to be fat or thin.
You can control what you want.
This woman chooses to let food control her and dominate her life.
I enjoy being a little bit hungry. It makes me happy. I am more alert and more productive. Donuts and pasta are repulsive now. I get nauseous thinking about eating a potato chip.
You can easily train yourself to do this. You can make your food and your reward pathways work for you rather than against you.
Being fat is unhealthy
Lacking self discipline with her body makes one believe she probably also lacks self discipline elsewhere
Yes, your body can do mean things to you to force you to eat. So, does she exercise? Does she work to keep her body muscled?
1) Not so much, really? More overstated than you'd think. (A shocking amount of it might well be doctors assuming "fat causes all the problems" and then ignoring the problems and trying to get people to lose weight ... which doesn't happen, because #2.)
2) Self discipline doesn't trump biology. I suggest you actually look at the medical data here - "losing weight and keeping it off" is staggeringly rare, and not "because nobody has self discipline".
3) Muscled and not-fat aren't the same thing - "strongmen" are usually quite well padded over their muscles. Bodybuilders aren't, and they actually are unhealthy for competitive reasons.
(Achilles is equally wrong, in that what he thinks is "easily" done is, by all evidence, actually staggeringly hard for everyone but him by literally all the available evidence.
Do tell how we can train our bodies to "want" to be thin? Tell science, because nobody bur you seems to think that's a real thing?)
Rationalizing poor or odd behavior by blaming on everyone else for adhering to even minimum standards is the essence of modern leftism.
She’s projecting. And protecting… her Mama is soft around the edges.
Ann Althouse said...
In the beginning of the piece she says she's lost 50 pounds in the past year... and her method was intermittent eating. She says there was a 30 day period when she fasted on 17 days.
Everyone one of us fasted on 30 days out of the last 30 days.
I hope as a writer she was not this inarticulate about the subject.
I would be interested in knowing how long she fasted. I teach people how to fast for extended periods. There are a lot of benefits associated with extended fasting.
But it is very different for men and women. Especially women that are still in reproductive cycles.
She is right. Diet culture is awful. They put you on unsustainable diets and people crash their weight around. The Biggest Loser was a positively evil television show.
Once past toddler days, I could eat anything and remain skinny, until I had a a full time desk job with long hours and a car at 24. Soon got out of shape and put on weight. Started walking and exercising again, and returned to skinny and fit until around 45 or so. I did like being thin and fit. But around then started to care less and feel the aches and pains of exercising more. There followed 15 years of overweight per BMI, mainly walking for exercise. About 10 years ago I threw out a bunch of clothes that I accepted I would never fit into again. And 5 years ago cut back on walking. But new years are for resolutions.
"Often, I cannot bear the idea of sending out my 'soft animal' of a body, in the words of the poet Mary Oliver, to fight for feminist views...
Do philosophers, and philosophy professors, mainly "fight for" particular views? I thought they led others to explore and ponder.
Having a modern academic spending her day evangelizing for Conventional Academia Wisdom doesn't seem very philosophical.
OK, why is this always framed as a women's issue? Are there no fat men? Do they never diet?
I am sick of being told (via TV, mostly) that, as a woman, I ought to be interested in losing weight. But I cannot stomach the lie that only women are subject to diet pressure.
" feminist views .... to represent a discipline that prides itself on sharpness, clarity and precision."
Uh, no. Feminism may pride itself on sharpness, clarity, and precision but that is merely a pleasant delusion possessed by those who espouse feminist nonsense. Feminism is exactly the opposite of sharp, clear, or precise.
Achilles make a great point. People can lose weight but keeping it off is ignored. Fasting is absolutely positively required by our evolutionary biology. You can get the benefits of a 5 day water fast by following Dr. Longo's fasting mimicking diet. The calorie distribution is 40%fat, 40%carb and 10% protein. 1100 calories day 1 800 calories days 2-5. It's a medically prescribed adjunct to chemo therapy. It's not for losing weight, it's for triggering atophagy that eats up cancer cells. In healthy people, it triggers Tcells and inhibits mTor
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2021.655731/full
'OK, why is this always framed as a women's issue? Are there no fat men? Do they never diet?'
Women almost always gain weight in their hips, men in their stomachs.
From the front and the back I look pretty slim.
My strategy is to never let anyone see me from the side.
"'The lightness and quickness of his mind was entirely hidden by the lumpishness of his appearance.'"
I call BS. It wasn't "entirely" hidden, since everyone at the time knew, and ever since has known, that Hume was one of the lightest, quickest thinkers around.
"Thus have other fat philosophers been warned that our bodies may similarly mask our intellects."
How does that work, exactly? Philosophers mainly communicate through the written word. How can disembodied texts mask anything?
"'Rationality,' handily demonstrates the worldview that equates thinness with reason.... [H]e chides the irrational doofus who prefers the 'small pleasure' of chowing down on lasagna now over the supposedly 'large pleasure of a slim body' in perpetuity. They 'succumb' to 'myopic discounting' of future rewards — an (ableist) term for short-term thinking, illustrated with a fatphobic example."
I call BS. This is a willfully stupid response to Pinker (p. 52-5). He contrasts different ways of dealing with decisions in time, and the odd irrationality that results--choosing fresh veggies over lasagna in 100 days, easy, choosing them now, hard--even if the thin-body preference is constant. There's nothing "ableist" about the concept of myopic discounting, nor does Pinker suggest that fat people are more prone to it (though perhaps they are, an empirical issue). Pinker gives several examples of myopic discounting and ways to deal with it. Is instructing employers to tithe our paycheck to avoid succumbing to the temptation to blow a surplus on vacations "workaholist"?
"Diet Culture Is Unhealthy. It’s Also Immoral"
It isn't. Striving to be fit and healthy, and wishing the same for others, is both healthy and moral. It's categorically imperative to me. Anyway, morality starts with intellectual clarity--in this case, clarity about the excuses and self-justifications. That's the unmasking this philosopher really fears.
"Do tell how we can train our bodies to "want" to be thin? Tell science, because nobody bur you seems to think that's a real thing?)"
It's quite simple - manipulate the hormone levels of an individual (particularly testosterone for men) and the body will adjust its homeostatic balance to maintain a lower level of fat stores.
Science knows this and athletics uses this knowledge, but for some reason its impolite to point it out. Rather, we spend our time trying to change at what level our homeostasis is balancing - it can be done by some people using more or less tried-and-true methods, but it is really hard to do outside of hormone manipulation.
At some point the whispers about female hormones being ubiquitous in our water will become shouts. People in the developed world have been dosing on low-levels of female (i.e., fat-storing) hormones for decades. At some point this will be acceptable to say in public and will explain a lot of the incessant creep toward universal obesity in developed societies.
If you would agree to not impose the costs of your choices on those around you (decline using Medicare and the ADA to subsidize your life choices) then your are free to do whatever you want.
But when you go with My body, my choice, your bill, then we're gonna have a problem.
@ Achilles 1/4/22, 11:11 AM - You can train your mind and your body to want to be fat or thin. ... You can easily train yourself to do this.
How can you write this? Lots of people say they want to be thin. If it were easy to do it, they would have done it already. But they don't. Most people don't.
If you really know that easy way, patent it and make several bazillion dollars.
"She is the author of Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny and Entitled: How Male Privilege Hurts Women."
Given that I will never get more acquainted with her work than I am at this very moment (which is to say, not at all other than reading those titles from her bio), I feel a giant emptiness in my soul where her undoubtedly brilliant and original ideas might otherwise be.
Roger Sweeny said...
"@ Achilles 1/4/22, 11:11 AM - You can train your mind and your body to want to be fat or thin. ... You can easily train yourself to do this."
How can you write this? Lots of people say they want to be thin. If it were easy to do it, they would have done it already. But they don't. Most people don't. Emphasis added.
Saving money, avoiding having children out of wedlock, generally being a responsible adult, etc. also are pretty easy for most people if you're willing to control your impulses and arrange your priorities for success, but a lot of people nevertheless fail to do so.
I have found Achilles' view essentially to be correct.
One simple trick to stay lean and mean like a gyrene. It's the "NO" trick. No sugar no alcohol no pasta. No eating for 16 to 20 hours per day. No eating all day once a month. No exercise required.
Hi, welcome to life. This body is your vessel - no refunds, no tags back - do with it what you can. Bitching about it doesn't get you any extra points.
Kate Moss supposedly once said, "nothing tastes as good as being skinny feels."
Diet in original, liquefied, or supplemental form is life. The problem is not diet, but sustained impulse habits, and diets with pathogenic properties.
Palladium is a great poetry book.
One still should not eat it.
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