Please watch that first, then take this poll — but only if you are a Trump supporter:DESANTIS ON AOC: "If I had a dollar for every lockdown politician who decided to escape to Florida over the last two years, I'd be a pretty doggone wealthy man."
— Benny (@bennyjohnson) January 3, 2022
pic.twitter.com/kyMX2pkVHY
৪ জানুয়ারী, ২০২২
A question for Trump supporters: Would you prefer for Trump to stand down or would you rather see DeSantis go head-to-head with Trump in the debates?
Rhetorically, DeSantis rules:
এতে সদস্যতা:
মন্তব্যগুলি পোস্ট করুন (Atom)
পোস্টগুলি
১৫১টি মন্তব্য:
Desantis will make an excellent VP for 4 years.
Then he can spend 8 more years being president.
Those are great Q&A options.
My answer- Trump should stay away at age 75, and let younger, more articulate people have a chance.
What I like about DeSantis is his outsider appeal.
Why do we always end up with a Bush or a Clinton or an old entrenched family like Biden, Pelosi, or Bernie or Cheney? Why? enough of that.
Trump will suck all the oxygen out of the room and make it so we cannot focus on leftwing failure. it will be wall to wall Trump, Trump ego, and Trump haters. Geeez - as much as I admire his accomplishments, we don't need that.
I really like Trump, but, as they say in sports, Father Time is undefeated, and I do not want to see a Trump administration run by people in the shadows, like what we are seeing now with Biden.
I love Trump! But he has been eaten alive by the minnows. Best chance for good governance is DeSantis. It would be awesome if Trump endorsed him and viewed himself as the martyr that made patriotic government possible.
There is an election and a year or two before the presidential campaign actually starts.
Things are going to happen during that time. It is more likely that both Biden and Harris have resigned by that point.
The only thing that can save the regime are the GOPe traitors in the republican party after republicans takethe house in 2022. They will do their best.
Biden was staring into space weirdly today after remarking how expensive ground beef is now.
Going to be an interesting 3 years.
DeSantis would still be officially Hitler, but the "hysteria-resistance" would be dialed down to "10". The anti-Trump hysteria really unsettles me. I'm surrounded by crazy people here in California. For example: our creepy little Latinx AG sued the Trump administration 110 times. Our Governor Dreamboat's campaign rests solely on the fact that he is not Trump, and he prevails. Insane!
It's up to Trump, not me.
If DeSantis wants the nomination he needs to earn it. Clearing a path for him only weakens him in a general election. Arguably that's part of what doomed Hillary.
whichever one it is, assuming they win, the first thing they need to do is fire without benefits the top third of every federal agency everywhere in the nation, but especially in DC. (and jail and prosecute a good third of those they fire).
the deeply entrenched Federales are the devil against trump's magnificent visions.
De Santis can be the consolidation of the growing hatred towards Democrats, and he can serve for two terms. I believe Trump is fully aware of that and can serve as a key advisor in this important generational transition, to say nothing of strengthening the growing rush of hispanics to the Republican party. Furthermore, he has none of Trump's negatives which will keep us looking backwards instead of to the future.
The Democrats really have no nnationally-viable "bench".
DeSantis' resume reads like someone who spent their life preparing for a political career. No thanks. If elected he'd be just as dependent on the establishment and the donor class as any other establishment candidate. I don't believe for a second that he'd make the radical changes necessary. He'd cuck out on immigration enforcement and trade with China.
Trump policies good
Trump as a candidate has too much baggage to pull in any Dem votes and not enough independents, both of which will give DeSantis a try.
Two Men Enter... One Man Leaves!!
Let's see how DeSantis does next year. He needs re-election first.
I think Trump has no intention of running again, but is encouraging the belief that he will run because it gives him great leverage now. (just as Biden needs to give that same impression because otherwise he has no leverage now.)
The knives will come out in earnest for DeSantis soon enough.
I'd like to see the debate for a couple reasons:
1. It might provide die-hard Trump supporters comfort that they can support someone else who gives zero f's about Washington insiders.
2. The cognoscenti have contended for years that Trump is singularly bad. De Santis is, by definition, less bad, and the press might have to give him credit for not being Trump. You can say that two people are each singularly bad, but it's a much harder lie to maintain.
3. Coronations suck.
DeSantis is a closet GOPe LLR deep state frat boy company man. Shit, I might vote for him over Biden or Harris.
whichever one it is, assuming they win, the first thing they need to do is fire without benefits the top third of every federal agency everywhere in the nation, but especially in DC. (and jail and prosecute a good third of those they fire).
the deeply entrenched Federales are the devil against trump's magnificent visions
--------
That's not possible. They couldn't even fire an FBI agent who lied to investigators. The bureaucracy is too well protected. The only way to get any change is if Congress steps up and radically cuts funding.
All depends. First off, a fair general election? Sorry, blocks of thousands of votes dont come in 100% for one candidate. Never has a count been stopped, and it happened in 5 places that night. Which 5 places? Funny that.
Oh, and its dems. Enough said. I grew up in Chicago.
So, in my perfect "fair" election myth world, Trump first, then DeSantis twice. Brcause of the age factor and lets give Trump the honor of throwing many swamp creatures in jail. Equal opportinity. Bush first.
I loved what Trump got done despite having the entire world- including the US Government- fighting him. I loved that Trump didn't flinch from the media, but rather, took them head on.
But...he's as much of a draw to the Democrats getting out to vote as he is in getting Republicans out to vote. I do think he won the last election and I'll go to my grave with that in my gut. But...that said...
His game is old. He broke through a wall that we needed broken. But now we need DeSantis to take it over. He's smoother, smart (not smarter, but a different kind of smart than Trump). He's been in Government at multiple levels- he knows how the rats do their work. He's well educated, well respected, and can think on his feet. And...he's also a fighter, but he won't sound looney when he's slapping back. He cuts quick and thoroughly.
DeSantis is also someone who can work with both sides, not that I'm looking for compromise. But it would be nice to have some sort of comity in our government- one more time, while I'm still around. We keep going on the path we're on, this country is done.
Finally- I've no use for DeSantis as a Veep. That means we lose him as Governor just to show up at grade schools reading to kids. If he's not going to win the GOP nomination, I'd just assume he didn't run and stay on as the best Governor in the country.
I think Trump will be too old to be President in the year 2025 and 2028. For me, it is really simple- Trump should stand aside at the right moment before the campaign for the nomination start, and I think he will in the end. However, I would be fine if he chooses otherwise- he is more vital than most men 20 years his junior.
You aren't going to see DeSantis vs Trump- DeSantis will only run if Trump is out of the race.
Howard: "DeSantis is a closet GOPe LLR deep state frat boy company man. Shit, I might vote for him over Biden or Harris."
You are going to have try much harder than that. Your typical "yahoo comments" level effort will not get it done.
Trump should attract as much of the incoming fire as possible for as long as possible. Let the opposition exhaust themselves. Serve as a foil for DeSantis, Trump lite, who will be a transition candidate either way, as president or VP.
Then I'll make a choice, as will they.
The Republican Party will benefit from a primary-election race between Trump and DeSantis. Let the best man win, and then all Republicans should unite and support the party's nominee.
In such a primary race, I intend to vote for DeSantis. However, if Trump wins the nomination, then I will vote for him in the general election.
In 2016, I voted for Cruz in the NJ primary election. Then I voted for Trump in the general election. I was happy to vote that way.
Mr Wibble said...
DeSantis' resume reads like someone who spent their life preparing for a political career. No thanks. If elected he'd be just as dependent on the establishment and the donor class as any other establishment candidate. I don't believe for a second that he'd make the radical changes necessary. He'd cuck out on immigration enforcement and trade with China.
This is my take as well.
He can prove himself as VP.
I don't see him defenestrating the DC bureaucracy. I see him managing it.
Trump on the other hand has the perspective of an outsider to government and would have a better chance to see the true problem.
It will be Trump and Hillary again.
Two too olds.
She is still desperate for power. The left know how to cheat.
fix is in. btw- The leftwing press are dying for Trump to run.
Those who are putting their faith in the fact that the media has painted Trump as uniquely bad therefore anyone else must be by definition less bad is totally misguided.
The media have shown time and time again going back to Eisenhower that the current conservative being discussed is always uniquely bad in a way that requires emergency measures to suppress him or her. They show no shame and not even a barely perceptible flinch as they apply the same standard or worse to the next conservative being discussed
"It is more likely that both Biden and Harris have resigned by that point. "
I predict that will not happen.
Mr Wibble: "If DeSantis wants the nomination he needs to earn it. Clearing a path for him only weakens him in a general election. Arguably that's part of what doomed Hillary."
Precisely.
The process hardens and refines the candidate. It forces them to deal with any weaknesses and we see how they exploit their strengths. Most importantly, steel sharpens steel. If Trump ran DeSantis would be in a position to win the nomination outright and something tells me that he can that without pulling a "Jeb!" or a "little Marco" act like the establishment sellout GOPe-ers.
Republicans always have this desperate desire to just get the current republican who is the target of the democraticals Hitler-ization routine out of there. But the next republican up is always the next Hitler, so that is a non-starter in terms of political strategy.
Lots of time between now and the fall 2023 when the fun starts.
We don't even know what the political landscape will look like by then, except for the continued sellout of America to the ChiComs/russkis/Iranians/EU by Biden's Earpiece of course.
Trump is 32 years older than Desantis.
Those who are putting their faith in the fact that the media has painted Trump as uniquely bad therefore anyone else must be by definition less bad is totally misguided.
Well that would be me. I agree entirely, but that's why I endorse putting them on stage at the same time.
9:41 - Temujin nails it.
extra credit for this:
"Finally- I've no use for DeSantis as a Veep. That means we lose him as Governor.."
Indeed. DeSantis as VP is a huge waste.
Trump will suck all the oxygen out of the room and make it so we cannot focus on leftwing failure. it will be wall to wall Trump, Trump ego, and Trump haters.
Didn't vote as I'm not a Trump supporter, but that would be my reason why I'd rather have someone other than Trump, regardless if that person would implement Trump's agenda or not.
In the long run, it would be good for the Dems to lose to someone other than Trump in 2024. Might put them more in contact with the mainstream.
But...he's as much of a draw to the Democrats getting out to vote as he is in getting Republicans out to vote.
Trump was exciting and taught Republicans to champion issues that matter, but part of leading a successful movement is exciting folks who believe in you and NOT exciting an equal number of opponents.
Perhaps if he lost with grace he would today be getting a second look from Americans outside his base.
That said, I don't know what DeSantis really believes outside a couple of issues and a bunch of soundbites. I voted for a Trump-DeSantis debate.
I think Trump should follow the Rush Limbaugh route and be an influencer. Bonus; by not running, Trump is always a threat to run, which will keep the Dems in their self-destructive hissy fit.
What I want from the Republican primary is a true crucible that tests the candidates rather than a favored appointment to the ticket. We've seen the failures of appointment with all Bush's, McCain, Romney, and now Biden. The parties build poor political leaders.
Watched the clip. He's kinda verbose compared to Trump. Comes from Yale vs Fordham/Penn pedigree?
I detest Trump's immature name calling. "Little Marco" was not Trump's finest moment. Trump shat over Republicans far more than he did the left.
BIG MISTAKE.
I've told a few pals that If Trump ends up shitting on DeSantis - I'm done with Trump.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
Those are great Q&A options.
My answer- Trump should stay away at age 75, and let younger, more articulate people have a chance.
What I like about DeSantis is his outsider appeal.
I concur.
Unfortunately I suspect we need about a dozen DeSantises in executive and congressional to make headway in the muck of the bipartisan swamp. It seems were always a couple McConnells or Romneys away from any meaningful progress. I don't expect to see it happen but would like to be surprised...
I think that DeSantis will choose his battles better with the deep state. The deep state is a political reality, and wishing it away will not get rid of it.
Now that the wealthy have all become Democrats, it opens up the party to appeal to where the massive numbers of votes are, as Trump has shown.
People! Pay attention! Ron DeSantis has a wife suffering from cancer. If she’s in remission by campaign season starting in fall 2023 that will be one thing, but if she’s still sick he will not have the cycles to campaign and run Florida and look after his wife.
Althouse assumes without evidence that Republican politicians are the same sort of worthless-on-the-best-day-of-their-lives politicians as her beloved Democrats. Or perhaps it offends a hardcore feminist that real men love their wives and will sacrifice for them.
I'm so tired of old men though a Boomer is better than Biden. We've had three presidents born in the same year: Clinton, W and Trump. Let's leave the Boomers behind. It's time for DeSantis.
Can't vote, since I'm only a conditional Trump supporter: if he runs and wins the nomination, I will support him.
But the GOP would make a mistake to pick the losing loser, the guy who couldn't even beat Biden and who served as the Dems' GOTV operation all by himself.
For now DeSantis is the strongest potential GOP candidate. Haley and Noem have already shown weakness, Cruz turns off too many people, Cotton is solid but abrasive, of course Pence is a non-starter.
"he won't sound looney"
This is a big deal. Maybe even Althouse can abstain from abstaining.
This situation reminds me of the election of 1980, when Reagan and Bush competed for the Republican nomination. Reagan beat Bush, but selected him for his Vice President.
If now there will be a primary-election race between Trump and DeSantis and if Trump beats DeSantis, then I think it's likely that Trump will select DeSantis as his Vice President.
------
If there will be a primary-election race between Trump and DeSantis, then I think that practically all Trump supporters will come to like DeSantis, even if they do vote for Trump in the primary election.
I went with the first choice. Trump standing down would go against his very nature. But if he's willing to be happy with having started a movement and willing to pass the torch to someone who will really enhance that movement (someone who is also younger), then Trump will easily be seen as both gracious and farsighted.
Lotta ifs with that happening.
If Trump runs and fails to get the nomination I can see him continuing as TR '12 just to try to humiliate the nominee into 3rd place.
DeSantis for president, with Trump as Secretary of State.
One of them should stand down. And if you're reading this, Donald, and you're planning to run, learn how to debate first, even if it means going back to high school.
Blogger Achilles said...
Desantis will make an excellent VP for 4 years.
Then he can spend 8 more years being president.
This is the same fallacy that I have been hearing since the 50s. That the vice presidency is a launching pad for the presidency.
We've had 2, count 'em, 2 sitting VPs elected president since the 12A. History has not been kind to either and neither was able to get re-elected.
We've had 2 former VPs, Biden & Nixon, get elected. How did they work out?
We've had a number of VPs who got into office on the death of the Prez (and Ford on Nixon's resignation).
Other than Coolidge, and some might say T Roosevelt, are there any who were seen as even halfway decent presidents? At the time or even now? None got re-elected to a second, full, term.
Then we have dozens of VPs who tried to get elected and failed.
Much as I like DeSantis, and I admit that having been a former executive he is different from most, I fail to see how being VP would do anything other than harm a potential presidential bid.
Trump then DeSantis. Let him run as a successful governor of Florida.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Trump had his chance to show he could give a giant middle finger to the deep state before he left office and he was largely neutered. What makes anyone think a second term will go any better than his first? Trump has some great instincts, but that's not enough against the Deep State.
You're right, Drago. Achilles and others agree with me so I must be wrong that DeSantis is a Derp State Manchurian candidate.
Or how about this:
DeSantis for Prez in 2024, PEDJT as VP in 2024.
As president of the Senate, with no political ambitions, he could rain Hellfire down on the Senate.
It would actually be Truth(tm) but it would feel like Hellfire to many.
The popular notion is that the President of the Senate (VP) has no power because they have no vote except in ties.
They have a lot of powers, mostly small individually but quite big in the aggregate.
They are not exercised because of fear that if they alienate the Senators they will kill their political future.
A Senate President Trump would not have that concern.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Wow! The results of the poll surprised me. I thought I was the only one that has had enough of Trump's Trumpiness. For me, more than the mean tweets, it's the inarticulateness of the man that drives me crazy. DeSantis has the Trump views on government and he's able to speak in complete sentences and paragraphs. The only other Republican I can think of who is that articulate is Sen. Rubio.
If we want to remain a republic - which is currently in doubt, at this point - we need strong governors like DeSantis. Weak Republican governors - governors aligned with the uniparty - allow states to become mushy and then Democrat controlled.
We need DeSantis in Florida as an example of good conservative governance. Not in DC swallowed by the uniparty swap. The McConnell/Thune coalition will hog tie and defang him quickly.
Hey John Henry whatever you're smoking send it over to me. When in the history of mankind has anyone like Trump accepted a job as second fiddle?
As Achilles points out, a Trump-DeSantis ticket may be where this is going. Trump-Pence is a nonstarter for Trump, right?
If the election looks close, one of them may have to pretend he doesn’t live in Florida. “The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves.” You can bet Trump will make DeSantis do that. We’ll get to watch the Governor of Florida pretend that he doesn’t live in Florida.
But what if they risk it and Donald Trump ends up with Kamala Harris as his Vice President?
Interested Bystander said...
Wow! The results of the poll surprised me. I thought I was the only one that has had enough of Trump's Trumpiness. For me, more than the mean tweets, it's the inarticulateness of the man that drives me crazy. DeSantis has the Trump views on government and he's able to speak in complete sentences and paragraphs. The only other Republican I can think of who is that articulate is Sen. Rubio.
So far Desantis is a talker.
I am not sure if you brought up Rubio to attack Desantis or not. But Rubio is the perfect example for a slick articulate scum weasel.
Beasts of England said: DeSantis for president, with Trump as Secretary of State.
Funny. I was thinking this same thing. If you ever had any desire to see heads blown apart from the US through the UK, across to the EU, over to Moscow and Beijing, and back over to the Middle East, this would be worth the price of admission. Just the announcement would be hilarious. I'd have to record TV for a week to capture the bloodletting, the howling, the maniacal caterwauling. Not enough popcorn in all of the grocery stores in all of the Gulf Coast.
Serious Question
Wouldn't Trump have to give up his job, as Speaker of the House, to also be President?
is the something in the Constitution about that?
(seems like, there's something about 'can't be a Senator and a Cabinet Secretary, or such?)
If it IS allowed, would President Speaker Trump have to appoint himself Chief Justice too?
Lefties have the impression that Trump voters are kneepad-wearing acolytes because that's how they treat folks like Hillary, Obama, and Billy Jeff.
But (I think) most of us voted for him because he was the lesser of all evils.
He had serious character flaws, but the system was so broken, he was the best alternative at the time.
But DeSantis is a new and (from what I've seen) better sheriff in town.
Let him succeed or fail on his own.
If Trump plays king-maker in the background (subtly), so much the better...
If the election looks close, one of them may have to pretend he doesn’t live in Florida.
Trump could just say he lives in Wyoming. It worked for Dick Cheney; hell! it IS working for Lizard
Howard: "You're right, Drago. Achilles and others agree with me so I must be wrong that DeSantis is a Derp State Manchurian candidate."
You should try again.
See if you can do better next time.
John henry said...
Or how about this:
DeSantis for Prez in 2024, PEDJT as VP in 2024.
That wont work. For one Trump isn't able to fill that role. He just can't do that. He hasn't done it for 40 years. There are skills required he doesn't have.
For two Desantis is all talk right now.
I want to see him serve as a VP that is put in charge of reforming the FBI.
I want him sent off to the Middle East and see him tell the Palstinians and their European paymasters to fuck off and put the Abraham Accords back in place.
I want him to prove he will not be a monumental fucking failure like Mike Pence.
If you all want to know why the GOPe keeps fucking you it is because you are all gullible fools who get sucked in by slick talk and nice hair.
We'll see, Drago. People like you youst to discredit Nostrildumbass' predictions and they are all dead now.
In 2016, I was a one-issue voter -- that one issue was immigration.
At the beginning of the Republicans' primary-election race I supported Scott Walker, but he soon turned out to be a total squish on the immigration issue. Therefore, I switched my support to Trump, although I disliked much about him.
As the primary elections proceeded, Ted Cruz refined his immigration positions enough that I figured he had become just as good as Trump on that one issue. I liked Cruz's personal qualities, and so I switched my support from Trump to Cruz.
At the end of the race, the last two candidates essentially were Trump and Cruz. At that point, I expected Cruz to do well in the Indiana primary election, and I was surprised that Trump won that primary election so decisively.
At that point, I still did not appreciate the importance of the free-trade issue. Trump was willing to discard the Republican Party's free-trade principles and to make a major issue instead about America jobs being shipped overseas.
Trump changed the Republican Party on two issues: 1) immigration and 2) free trade. That is how Trump flipped the Rust Belt states into the Republican Party and won the 2016 general election.
In that regard, Trump's run and victory in the Republican Party's primary-election race reformed the Republican Party. Perhaps Trump even saved the Republican Party from an early political death.
-------
I foresee that a competitive primary-election race in 2024 likewise might be a good learning experience for the Republican Party. A competitive race will teach many Republicans what issues are important and successful.
Maybe Trump has some more wisdom to teach us. Maybe DeSantis will show us a better path.
Let them compete, and then let's unite to support the candidate who won the primary-election race.
Trump is the dog who caught the car. Unfortunately, there was no big payoff. Just four years of amateur-hour versions of the same shenanigans that establishment politicians do professionally. It should have been an enlightening moment for the American voter: None of these people are emperors, and none of them are wearing any clothes! Instead... Well, here we are.
Joe Smith: "But DeSantis is a new and (from what I've seen) better sheriff in town.
Let him succeed or fail on his own."
DeSantis is unproven at the national level but he has time to make believers of everyone in this more populous, more working class, increasingly broad demographically republican party.
Trump has been thru the wars and so is battle scarred...and was hit and miss in many key areas.
But in comparisin to EVERY OTHER republican who was running (all Miss and no Hits), he was the only choice.
Its already clear that Gov Noem has the failed instincts of the establishment's preferred Bushie candidate Nikki Haley. Pompeo is straight out of CIA/State Dept Forever War Central. I could go on.
I am hoping DeSantis performs and takes aggressive stands and implements policies in a way that clearly signals he could absorb the abuse and corrupt practices of the deep staters and incrementally claw back some control, but we have a long way to go to get there.
Let Trump be VP, and put him in-charge of dismantling the FBI.
....then he can re-sign.
Blogger Achilles said...
Interested Bystander said...
Wow! The results of the poll surprised me. I thought I was the only one that has had enough of Trump's Trumpiness. For me, more than the mean tweets, it's the inarticulateness of the man that drives me crazy. DeSantis has the Trump views on government and he's able to speak in complete sentences and paragraphs. The only other Republican I can think of who is that articulate is Sen. Rubio.
So far Desantis is a talker.
I am not sure if you brought up Rubio to attack Desantis or not. But Rubio is the perfect example for a slick articulate scum weasel.
1/4/22, 10:24 AM
I brought up Rubio because he is the most clear-speaking politician I've ever seen. He sold out his party years ago when he joined the Dems and McCain on a massive immigration/amnesty bill. That doesn't mean the guy doesn't speak in clear paragraphs, not just sentences, with no need for a teleprompter.
Trump's biggest fault is the word salad that spews from his mouth. It's the reason the press finds it so easy to twist his words. He jumps from thought to thought mid-sentence as he did in Charlottsville with the "good people on both sides" comment. If he had finished the thought instead of coming back to it later after he realized what he had said he would avoided handing the left a hammer to beat him with for the next four years. I know, they would have found something else but there's a lot less possibility when a candidate is able to speak in clear well thought out sentences.
Blogger Readering said...
If Trump runs and fails to get the nomination I can see him continuing as TR '12 just to try to humiliate the nominee into 3rd place.
Well that is plausible because, unlike Bernie, Trump has all the houses he wants. Hard to buy off a billionaire.
Madashell: Yes! Defund the Police.
It would be nice to have some coordinated strategy rather than go through primary bloodbath, but Republicans haven't been that great at coordinated anything lately.
Ron, keep your eyes on the skies. The Democrats will use every hurricane that comes your way as a chance to take you down. Also, Yale + baseball makes voters break out in hives. You've got to prove you aren't going to be another Bush (or William Howard Taft).
In the vein of what several others have posted, I am buying the DeSantis hype, but he's more valuable to me as my Governor than as a VP or POTUS.
A very smart article by "Dave in Florida" about DeSantis's COVID policies
An excerpt:
.... As much as the media and political class hate him, rational public health policy has been defined by Ron DeSantis in Florida. From the beginning of the worldwide Covid crisis, he has been consistent on following the best scientific data available, in order to protect Floridians. This hasn't always meant that the correct decisions were made, but when new data became available, he would shift policy to deal with the facts on the ground.
At the start, he followed the same lockdown policies that most other states and countries followed. When it became apparent that the data didn't support lockdowns, and that the state economy was being harmed, he was among the first to lift the lockdown, and he has never considered returning to an that ineffective strategy.
Also, he followed the research showing the most vulnerable population was the elderly, a demographic where Florida exceeds other states that had high infection rates, such as New York and Michigan. He bucked the Medicare and hospital establishment and refused to allow Covid patients to be returned nursing homes. This alone is the major reason why the Covid death rate in Florida is so much lower than in New York, Michigan, and California, despite having a much higher percentage of at-risk individuals.
More recently, he set up treatment centers for monoclonal antibody treatments for severe Covid illnesses. These are state-funded and no cost to the patient. He has literally saved thousands of lives by using the most effective measures available, while ignoring "the science" being spouted by the CDC and the WHO. If it works, it is supported in Florida. If it doesn't, it is ignored. ....
If DeSantis is the nominee/and or POTUS, one thing I know for sure.
He will be treated as the second coming of Hitler, as Little Trump, even worse than Trump, and no hands will be extended across the aisle to him.
Because he's literally Hitler, don't you know.
This site can’t be reached
poll.pollcode.com refused to connect.
Just four years of amateur-hour versions of the same shenanigans that establishment politicians do professionally.
This the typical leftist response. I agree with Mike Sylvester,
At that point, I still did not appreciate the importance of the free-trade issue. Trump was willing to discard the Republican Party's free-trade principles and to make a major issue instead about America jobs being shipped overseas.
Trump changed the Republican Party on two issues: 1) immigration and 2) free trade. That is how Trump flipped the Rust Belt states into the Republican Party and won the 2016 general election.
Now, we need a candidate who sees this. Maybe Trump is all we have.
I still think our current president Emeritus will return to the oval before 2024.
I had thought before the end of 2021 and had a bet with the broccoli king, who no longer seems to be here.
I just paid off the bet with a donation to the blog.
I still think that Kamala resigns, Trump becomes VP, Biden resigns and Trump becomes president again.
So I don't think I was wrong except for my timing.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
'DeSantis for president, with Trump as Secretary of State.'
Even better...Trump as government efficiency czar.
His sole purpose would be to slash and burn government bureaucracy, regulations, and even entire departments (think Education, HUD, FBI, CIA, etc.).
He could recommend the wholesale dismantling of the federal government, and return all that power back to state and local jurisdictions where it belongs.
2024? 2 years away.
2024? Trump still alive? Who knows.
2024? Trump will run? Who knows
2024? Biden dead? Biden resigned? USA in a war? USA in depression or hyper inflation? Who knows
Interested Bystander said...
Trump's biggest fault is the word salad that spews from his mouth.
And the longest list of positive accomplishments in history.
Despite the Deep State Coup.
You people don't seem to understand what we are up against.
If you put Pinochet in the primary you should give him a look before you go for slick talk and coifed hair.
rcocean: "2024? 2 years away.
2024? Trump still alive? Who knows.
2024? Trump will run? Who knows
2024? Biden dead? Biden resigned? USA in a war? USA in depression or hyper inflation? Who knows"
Precisely.
Blogger retail lawyer said...
little Latinx AG sue
Please don't use that racist, genocidal word. It is EXTREMELY offensive.
Ann, you do not permit the "N-word" here. You should not permit this L-word either.
John Henry
'But in comparisin to EVERY OTHER republican who was running (all Miss and no Hits), he was the only choice.'
I agree wholeheartedly.
But even three and four years in he kept making the same mistakes.
Mostly in personnel. He hired terrible people. His White House leaked like a sieve.
He didn't fire Wray. He didn't pardon Assange.
So many missed opportunities that should have been layups for a true disruptor...
1974? No one knew jerry ford would be Reagan for nomination
1986 No one knew Bush would become President or face Dukakis.
1990 No one knew Bush would lose to Clinton or Perot would run
1998 No one knew Bush II would get nomination and beat Gore
2006 McCain nominated run against Obama (who?) - not forecasted
2014 Trump nominated (haha) no one said that.
Speculation is a waste of time, unless your crystal ball is working.
Whatever's better for liberty.
Joe Smith: "'DeSantis for president, with Trump as Secretary of State.'"
If DeSantis becomes the real thing, then wins the nomination, then wins the general, then he better be prepared on Day 1 for a series of 1 year temporary appointments for every key role in the government because there is zero chance the republicans in the Senate would allow him any nominees that would carry out real conservative policies.
The GOPe-ers in the Senate exist to fast track 99% of radical democratical nominees while slow-walking and killing any conservative nominee who will disrupt the establishment.
Failure Theater x1000.
Why assume USAMedia will allow Desantis to campaign without throwing Trump into the briar patch demanding mea culpa / comparison??!!
Joe Smith: "But even three and four years in he kept making the same mistakes."
And?
What?
These guys dont change. You get what you get.
You've already said Trump was the only choice in 2016.
Thats it.
You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.
Someone should say that to the Broncos Offensive Coordinator.
Trump's main accomplishment was enraging the left to the point they dropped all their masks for all to see what they really believe, how they really behave, how disgusting they are personally and how horrific their policies/agenda. I will always thank him for that, it was huge.
However, he seemingly can never be seen to be wrong, and he is infinity and beyond wrong on continuing to push the kill-shot. There is no way someone at Trump's level, with his intel, could possibly be totally ignorant of what the deathvaxx is doing globally. Heroes like Dr. Malone, McCullough, etc are out with their nuts on the line, while Trump sits quietly with nary even a small caution.
Joe Smith - I agree. 11:02
Trump's self-inflicted wounds should not be forgotten. Yes he did some good things, things we know are good because the corrupt left did everything they could to erase them on day one with Biden's BS executive orders. Still - I will never forget Trump's biggest fan - Ann Coulter - (Author of "In Trump we Trust") screaming at the top of her lungs at him because Trump didn't drain the swamp on day one, by, for example, firing all of the Obama's hold-overs AND he stupidly surrounded himself with frauds who were out to sabotage him and were ultimately successful. She knew it, she saw it, and the scales fell from her eyes.
Only Trump Can Save US!
Such crap.
Pat: "However, he seemingly can never be seen to be wrong, and he is infinity and beyond wrong on continuing to push the kill-shot. There is no way someone at Trump's level, with his intel, could possibly be totally ignorant of what the deathvaxx is doing globally. Heroes like Dr. Malone, McCullough, etc are out with their nuts on the line, while Trump sits quietly with nary even a small caution."
No one person can fight all battles everywhere all the time.
Strategy is about choices, and choices always have to be made.
Do you really want Trump engaging on the shots in addition to everything else?
I dont.
Others are doing that far more effectively than Trump could.
'Failure Theater x1000.'
@Drago...I was quoting someone else. I don't want Trump as Senate President.
'These guys dont change. You get what you get.
You've already said Trump was the only choice in 2016.
Thats it.
You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.'
My point is, he didn't learn anything WHILE HE WAS THERE.
He didn't adjust. He didn't get rid of bad advisors and get better ones.
There were dead-easy decisions (like firing Wray) that he didn't do...
What makes me believe he'd do better this time?
But if he's the nominee, I will walk through hell in a gasoline suit to support him (a baseball reference to match your Broncos one) : )
Being for a vigorous primary I chose #2. Let’s get to it.
Simply on the merits -- Trump is OLD and will be even OLDER, and that he already had his chance (twice) and whatever the "official" result, whether stolen or not, really did have millions upon millions of people militantly against him, rendering him in his own terms, a loser:
Trump needs to fade into yesterday if he cares about the country. Sticking it to the people who stuck it to you isn't a good enough reason to run, much less ask people to vote for you. Enough with the personal hero idolization.
Trump needs to play the man and step back. He had his time. He is the past. Now its time to move on. American doesn't need the drama for another four years.
Joe Smith: :My point is, he didn't learn anything WHILE HE WAS THERE.
He didn't adjust. He didn't get rid of bad advisors and get better ones.
There were dead-easy decisions (like firing Wray) that he didn't do..."
I know.
He is who he is.
It was cringeworthy watching Trump think he could Super-Salesguy the execreable DC insiders like Comey et al.
But we all knew that going in and I had little hope for much more. I would have been happy to have been surprised, but that was unlikely because...people dont change!
Right off the bat, RNC worm Priebus got his guy in as Press Secretary!
Gee, do you think it might have been important for Trump to have a sympatico dude at the microphone to advance his policies? Yes!
But Trump is Trump. He saw himself as the sales/marketing/comms guy. And he did hit his stride a bit by late 2019...andthen we all saw what happened.
We will never have a perfect candidate. The value of Trump was the ripping off of ALL the masks! That alone would have made it all worth it.
Lets see who is smart enough to well and truly pick up the baton...but whoever it is will have to beat Trump in some way: directly in the primary or indirectly by generating so much support in the lead up that Trump doesnt run but falls in line as the "kingmaker".
"But the GOP would make a mistake to pick the losing loser, the guy who couldn't even beat Biden "
Apparently some one in this community has forgotten that the "losing loser" previously defeated the consensus shoo-in Dem candidate despite universal opposition from the GOPe, the Dems, the Dems' media propaganda arms, lying Senate majority leaders, the Deep State, the FBI, the CIA, etc. That's a pretty major achievement for a "losing loser".
Trump didn't lose to Biden. He lost to the Deep State, corrupt state judges, the Dem media propaganda arm, and Zuckerbucks. And it's questionable whether he actually lost.
Blogger Howard said...
When in the history of mankind has anyone like Trump accepted a job as second fiddle?
Not saying that he would accept it, sort of agree with you.
OTOH, would a fully empowered Senate President, willing to take and use those powers that are rightfully theirs, really be a second fiddle? I suspect that they could be pretty close to being on equal footing with the "first fiddle" (not a bad name for Biden, btw)
See what LBJ did with the (then) nothing post of Senate Majority Leader in the 50's. He took a nothing position and, arguably, made himself as powerful as the president. At least in the sense that the president could not do anything at all without his cooperation.
So no, I don't see a person like PEDJT as second fiddle in the vice presidency as currently configured but how might he feel about the senate presidency as it could be for someone with no further political ambitions?
I doubt it will happen but the idea of an activist senate president is somethinng that has fascinated me for a number of years. Basically since Sarah Palin told us in 2008 that she intended to be an activist SP ad I looked into the powers.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Mark: "Simply on the merits -- Trump is OLD and will be even OLDER, and that he already had his chance (twice) and whatever the "official" result, whether stolen or not, really did have millions upon millions of people militantly against him, rendering him in his own terms, a loser:"
Trump probably believes he can pull a Churchill.
Mark: "Trump needs to fade into yesterday if he cares about the country. Sticking it to the people who stuck it to you isn't a good enough reason to run, much less ask people to vote for you. Enough with the personal hero idolization."
You arent in the arena. He's always been there. Trump is alive in the center of the storm.
Mark: "Trump needs to play the man and step back. He had his time. He is the past. Now its time to move on. American doesn't need the drama for another four years."
Trump lives for drama.
Look, get used to this: as I mentioned above, someone is going to have to directly or indirectly defeat Trump...but still give Trump an "out" to look good and deliver party unity.
Trump is not going quietly into that goodnight.
For God's sake, is there even an iota of Trump historical actions and precedent that would justify thinking Trump could do that?
Spoiler: No.
I voted for Trump--twice. But no one has a Divine Right to the Presidency. The Hildebeest thinks she has/had one. She's wrong. And Trump doesn't have one either. Come 2024 the various Republican challengers to Trump (if he decides to run again) should have it out with each other in the primaries. It would help if the debate cage masters were not dyed in the wool Deep Staters. That may be more than one can hope for.
I’m not a Trump supporter so I followed instructions and didn’t vote. But please stand down Donald, and so far I like DeSantis.
And for anyone old enough (and of course cool enough) to remember The English Beat, maybe they could update Stand Down Margaret! to Stand Down Donald! With their politics (different than mine) it should be a no brainer!
'But we all knew that going in and I had little hope for much more. I would have been happy to have been surprised, but that was unlikely because...people dont change!'
We're pretty much on the same page I think.
But Trump would have to lay out a pretty specific plan ahead of time.
And like his naming judges, I'd like to see him name some strong people for cabinet positions up front.
So what if he can't get someone nominated.
I'd be fine if he got 7 or 8 hardcore conservative together and just rotated them around to different departments every year.
Fire as many fed workers as possible (starting with the IC) and finish the wall (while deporting every illegal in the country*) and I'm a happy guy : )
*I know you can't deport everyone, but I'd change the charter of ICE to focus on removal. Don't care what it costs. You can't kick out 20M (or more) people at once, but you're got to start somewhere.
And on that topic, why not an executive order taxing every overseas money transfer by 30%? Illegals make a ton of money in this country that is cash, then send it over the border. We should be taxing it on the back end.
Hugh: "I’m not a Trump supporter so I followed instructions and didn’t vote. But please stand down Donald, and so far I like DeSantis."
Whose instructions?
And if you are a nominal republican and didnt vote, then you still did vote: for Hillary and/or Biden's Earpiece.
Welcome to the 2-party zero-sum system.
If you believe anything else you are deluding yourself.
But Trump would have to lay out a pretty specific plan ahead of time.
Joe Smith: And like his naming judges, I'd like to see him name some strong people for cabinet positions up front."
No more Federalist judges. We are having to hold our breath over Barrett and Kavanaugh in the vaccine mandate cases before the Supreme Court this week.
Joe Smith: "So what if he can't get someone nominated.
I'd be fine if he got 7 or 8 hardcore conservative together and just rotated them around to different departments every year."
That would be the first true "tell" of a DeSantis administration.
'No more Federalist judges. We are having to hold our breath over Barrett and Kavanaugh in the vaccine mandate cases before the Supreme Court this week.'
Amen...
Trump would be a better President than any Democrat, but he has enough downside that Desantis would be a better choice in 2024.
Harold Stassen. I thought Joe Biden looked like Harold Stassen, but there he is in the Oval Office. The Presidential bug is not something transient. It's part of who you are--like height or age.....I voted for Trump and think he had a successful Presidency. But age happens. I'd just as soon vote for someone a bit younger who doesn't dabble in pornstars. Nttawwt.
Hash it out now because in 2024 it becomes a circular firing squad.
Blogger Mark said...
Simply on the merits -- Trump is OLD and will be even OLDER, and that he already had his chance (twice) and whatever the "official" result, whether stolen or not, really did have millions upon millions of mail in ballots militantly against him, rendering him in his own terms, a loser:
FIFY
I like the way DeSantis has given a big FH to kung flu. He and I both know that if we ignore it it will eventually go away. We see that now with omicron. (any deaths yet?)
And I don't know anything particularly negative about him on other issues.
But I just don't know much about him at all. Can someone explain why he might make a good candidate?
Something more than he talks good please. We have plenty of people who talk good.
We need people who can get the right things done. I don't care if they are deaf mutes.
Why do people think DeSantis can get things done? More importantly, the right things.
I'm not saying he can't. I just don't know, or at this point, care, about him to have an opinion one way or another.
John Henry Henry
I don't need to see DeSantis trounce Trump in the debates; I am confident he would. Trump's debate performances weren't very good, IMO. I did vote for him twice, the second time enthusiastically.)
I don’t want to see Trump run again because he will be too old. That said, DeSantis should have to earn the nomination by beating all comers including Trump. I think the age difference will be starker between DeSantis and Biden, as well as the intelligence/competency difference between DeSantis and Harris if Biden doesn’t seek re-election. I’d also like to add that despite the next-morning polls, I didn’t see Trump winning many, if any, Republican primary debates.
I don't know if there are studies of people being re-hired for a job they once had. I don't believe is a common practice. And if you take into account how he left I put the chances of Trump getting asked back at practically zero.
What we have seen is a loser coming back to win (Nixon) and a loser coming back to steal (Biden).
Trump would do well if he dropped the tough talk and (I almost said actually) spoke in a manner that mirrors his accomplishments. He can- I know he can. It would trip up the media- for a bit. He can run if he wants- it’s still a free country. He’s very good at getting things done. Doesn’t it depend on the others who throw their hats into the ring? I’d love political unknown …
I wanted to mention that my 89 yr old Mom thinks Biden is more than capable of getting us into a war. She’s worried about that.
Because he’s such a small man.
Yes, Trump should run again and win. After watching the deep state, tech oligarchs, media, etc. trash him, I want him back to get some revenge. These “resisters” are really the anarchists not the Jan. 6 crowd. We will need a strong leader after doddering old Joe Biden. Four more years of Trump…then DeSantis for eight years. Winning, Winning!!!
Option #1.
Good job, Ann, trolling your Trump supporting readers! ha ha
Only a never Trumper or a Dem who would never vote for any Republican would encourage this sort of debate imo. Divide and conquer. Sure, DeSantis is an extremely successful and popular governor, but has no international reputation or experience, and no national recognition. Mike Pence was a very successful governor, and so was some other midwestern governor (who showed up at the Republican debates, Mo Something?) whose name I can not recall, but neither had any chance of winning a national election.
If Trump has the energy and will to run again his age is insignificant. As far as I see from recent photos he's been losing some weight and getting into shape. Don't underestimate his genius.
Trump is too old. We have yet to have a President born in the 1950s. (VP Pence was born in 1959) Obama was born in 1961. DeSantis was born in 1978 (!!)
Some people like old. Old and boring. At least that's what I appreciate about Biden. Trump being older is a good thing. Mellowed. Wiser.
I voted for Trump to step aside in favor of DeSantis, but after further reflection, I would let them vie for the nomination in the primaries rather than be anointed.
It's a mistake to try to guess how America-haters will sabotage one or the other. They will try to do it to both and they might succeed with either one. Impossible to know. So shake it up and let the cream rise to the top.
'I voted for Trump to step aside in favor of DeSantis, but after further reflection, I would let them vie for the nomination in the primaries rather than be anointed.'
Joe was anointed and that turned out OK for him...
Unless the Republicans can replace Biden with Trump in 2023 (It is possible) so that he runs as an incumbent, I don't think Trump should run in 2024. He'll simply be too old. Biden has shown how quick and deep the decline can be.
I have no animus for DeSantis, he may turn out to be the one. One thing the Republicans have that the Democrats don't is options.
More recently, he set up treatment centers for monoclonal antibody treatments for severe Covid illnesses. These are state-funded and no cost to the patient. He has literally saved thousands of lives by using the most effective measures available, while ignoring "the science" being spouted by the CDC and the WHO. If it works, it is supported in Florida. If it doesn't, it is ignored. ...
I don't know why you are so impressed with DeSantis' Covid response. Florida has the 10th highest death rate from Covid in a state that is not particularly densely populated.
Field Marshall Freder: "I don't know why you are so impressed with DeSantis' Covid response."
Floridians are quite impressed by it, as they should be. Which is why its all the second stringers running against him.
Particularly the part where DeSantis made sure not to kill the elderly off by forcing infected patients into nursing homes.
That is strictly a democratical thing.....for which the democraticals were lauded, praised, and fantasized about by their psycho base voters.
Howard: "Hash it out now because in 2024 it becomes a circular firing squad."
tsk tsk tsk
Static, uncreative 2016 thinking.
By 2024 it will be quite clear to even the most dense of establishment republicans where the base of the party happens to be.
The circular firing squad is all on the democratical side moving ahead because the far far lefties will be taking full control over the next 2 election cycles.
Congrats Howard. You'll have been alive to see your party go full explicit marxist as opposed to the partial implicit/partial explicit marxist.
The ChiCom's could not be more proud of you.
I hope the GOP nominates someone other than Mr. Trump, because if he is nominated in 2024, I'll be voting for divided government. Which, when you think about it, isn't a bad solution.
If it's Trump .vs. DeSantis... well it's nice to have a good pick for once and I'll see the debates. BUT, Trump has been a President and has experience in that office. DeSantis does not.
Floridians are quite impressed by it, as they should be.
Telling me that Floridians are quite impressed doesn't provide any insight as to why they should be when the death rate is pretty bad. All it tells me is that a lot of Floridians are as delusional as you.
Field Marshall Freder: "Telling me that Floridians are quite impressed doesn't provide any insight as to why they should be when the death rate is pretty bad."
Because its not "pretty bad".
That's just another in a long line of lies you've convinced yourself is true.
In about 24 months you'll be telling us how DeSantis was the key enabler for Trump's non-existent collusion and expressing your disbelief that everyone isn't on board with that assessment....and that DeSantis crossed state lines to do it!
Interesting Observation: Freder offers his unfounded and quite vague accusations against DeSantis but has yet to criticize democratical governors for killing their elderly by shoving infected persons into nursing homes because of course he hasn't.
More recently, he set up treatment centers for monoclonal antibody treatments for severe Covid illnesses. These are state-funded and no cost to the patient.
Fucking socialist!
Douglas B. Levene: "I hope the GOP nominates someone other than Mr. Trump, because if he is nominated in 2024, I'll be voting for divided government. Which, when you think about it, isn't a bad solution."
LOL
I'm sure you're creative enough to come up with any number of reasons for why the republican candidate isn't your cup of tea....but right, right. For now its just because "Trump!".
Uh huh.
Well, you'll certainly be missed as a potential republican voter.....(wink wink)
Field Marshall Freder: "F****** socialist!"
Yep.
That's about your speed, and really, all you have left after your earlier post.
It's best you abandoned that line and have retreated to Howard-level "insights".
Because its not "pretty bad".
So having a death rate worse than 80% of the states is not pretty bad? All righty then.
I don't know how pointing out this fact is "unfounded "
But its all good.
“There’s a lot of reason to be hopeful in 2020.”--Joe Biden
So we have that to look forward to.
Freder offers his unfounded and quite vague accusations against DeSantis but has yet to criticize democratical governors for killing their elderly by shoving infected persons into nursing homes because of course he hasn't.
Well maybe that's because what a lecherous governor who was forced to resign in disgrace did is irrelevant to a discussion of whether trump or DeSantis is a better candidate.
Field Marshall Freder: "So having a death rate worse than 80% of the states is not pretty bad? All righty then."
You don't say.
You mean, the state with the highest percentage (with apologies to Maine) of elderly and is 13th in percent of minorities has a death rate worse than 80% of the states with a disease that effects primarily the elderly and effects minorities at rates greater than their white counterparts......
Shocking you say!
Tell me more about multivariate analysis and the mentality of those who are incapable of thinking about only 1 metric at a time.
Exit Question: With those stats alone, shouldn't Florida be the WORST state with Covid?
Watching Freder answer a question like that will be like watching a toddler attempt to feed himself peanut butter....except in Freder's case it will actually be messier.
Field Marshall Freder: "Well maybe that's because what a lecherous governor who was forced to resign in disgrace did is irrelevant to a discussion of whether trump or DeSantis is a better candidate."
Your entire statement is irrelevant to what we were speaking about.
Color me unsurprised.
I certainly don't think in 2022 before Nov. Trump should indicate he's not running in 2024.
I hope he goes and campaigns for 40-100 Rep Reps (Republican Representatives). Or 200?
(Nowadays I only do about 15 reps of pushups as I do my back stretch exercises).
It's Democratic Delusion Syndrome, not TDS - and the Dem mobs promote one delusion after another for any Reps they don't like that day; or even Joe Manchin on some days.
None of the 4 questions are great - I'm a fan of Trump policies and Trump's telling the truth about how FAKE so much of the important NYT/ WaPo news is.
Anybody who thinks the Dem media mob will be less harsh on some other Rep is also deluded.
I'm not voting anymore.
Indigo Red: "I'm not voting anymore."
People who aren't "voting anymore" routinely vote democratical...and sometimes more than once per election.
I did not vote for Trump in 2016
I watched his four years of being President, and thought he mostly did a good job.
But Trump sucked at personnel, and that's everything in DC
I expect DeSantis will be able to bring in a team of people who will actually fight for his goals, something Trump was unable to do.
I would like to see Trump spend this year supporting GOP candidates who will actually work for the voters, so that the wave election we have sweeps in good people.
But I hope Trump takes a pass on 2024.
If Trump doesn't take a pass on 2024, I expect he will have no difficulty winning the GOP nomination. I also expect him to win.
But I further expect that he will make a lot of the same mistakes in his second term that he made in his first
I don't think anyone should "clear the way" for DeSantis, he should have to beat all comers for the GOP nomination. I don't think he can beat Trump, and I don't think anyone else can beat him
Drago said...
Field Marshall Freder: "So having a death rate worse than 80% of the states is not pretty bad? All righty then."
You mean, the state with the highest percentage (with apologies to Maine) of elderly and is 13th in percent of minorities has a death rate worse than 80% of the states with a disease that effects primarily the elderly and effects minorities at rates greater than their white counterparts......
Shocking you say!
Field Marshall Freder: [Crickets]
I'm with Greg above.
The Trump moment has passed. We needed to go through a stage in the present continuing realignment where an outsider unlocked (I'm almost tempted to say unhinged) the existing coalitions but there were some definite downsides to his tenure. That said, neither Biden nor Harris are gonna put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. Now is the time for the GOP to pivot towards someone who is more established and can hopefully take advantage of the situation, whether that's DeSantis or somebody else. I'm thinking of the Nixon(Ford)-Carter-Reagan dynamic.
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