"'It's kind of an overlooked problem that in our ‘informed consent’ of children undergoing puberty blockers, we’ve in some respects overlooked that a little bit.'... [Dr. Marci Bowers] can build a labia, a vaginal canal and a clitoris, and the results look impressive. But, she said, if the kids are 'orgasmically naive' because of puberty blockade, the clitoris down there might as well be a fingertip and brings them no particular joy and, therefore, they’re not able to be responsive as a lover. And so how does that affect their long-term happiness?"
From "Top Trans Doctors Blow the Whistle on ‘Sloppy’ Care" by Abigail Shrier (at Common Sense with Bari Weiss).
Also: "[I]n natal males, early blockade might lead to 'non-normal pubertal phallic growth,' meaning that 'the genital tissue available for vaginoplasty might be less than optimal.' But... [m]any American gender surgeons augment the tissue for constructing neovaginas with borrowed stomach lining and even a swatch of bowel. Bowers draws the line at the colon. 'I never use the colon,' she said. 'It’s the last resort. You can get colon cancer. If it’s used sexually, you can get this chronic colitis that has to be treated over time. And it’s just in the discharge and the nasty appearance and it doesn’t smell like vagina.'"
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They're HURTING these kids. They're Doing it intentionally
They invented a problem, so they could provide a 'solution' and their solution is hurting kids
They sound like plumbers talking shop over the best way to ream and solder pile.
Which is exactly what they are.
It's times like this, i wish i was a lawyer; 'cause the lawsuits are going to be worth BILLIONS
Good Lord.
"The remains of the half-finished creature, whom I had destroyed, lay scattered on the floor, and I almost felt as if I had mangled the living flesh of a human being." -- Frankenstein
Any doctor who performs sex reassignment surgery is a crackpot and should have his or her medical license revoked.
It really is criminal that kids are allowed to get these extreme medical treatments.
Why does the Left hate children? What about protecting the kids from themselves, their idiot parents and docs looking to make money?
I am happy to see any portion of the medical profession start acting like doctors again instead of like politicians. Maybe this will start a trend and physiologists can once again use terms like "male" and "female" accurately, instead of pretending that the minute number of exceptions to this binary rule are in the majority. Or perhaps economists can admit that government "investment" distorts real investments, that subsidies are unsustainable, and that the real rate of return on investment matters more than the "social score" of the investment vehicle. Speaking of vehicles, can we also stop pretending that every car could be plugged? Way under five per cent need an electrical outlet now and we are already experiencing battery shortages and widespread power outages, even in TX.
This is a list without end, unfortunately. I'll save the rest for later.
Gosh, it's almost like mutilating a body in order to try and shape it into something it's not doesn't actually work to make you another sex!
Trans surgery is immoral. Any doctor engaging in it should be thrown in prison.
Any doctor giving a child puberty blockers should be hanged.
Forever in the future, historians will compare, contrast, and draw parallels of the present era with 20th Century actions that are now sharply criticized. This include Nazi death camp quack research on prisoners, Japanese prisoner research WW2, and the USA's own Tuskegee study of 1932 to 1973. This project allowed black men with syphilis infections to suffer needlessly.
https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm
"Playing God" became an expression for a reason.
No one talks about these particular mutilations when discussing "gender affirming" surgery and heavy-duty hormones.
These patients will likely lose their ability to have sexual pleasure let along orgasm.
How can we counsel a young boy that blocking his puberty will result in his having a micro-penis, and expect that he will have the slightest ability to process that and make decisions? No one talks about the fact that having a micro-penis means that you won't be able to construct a faux vagina. No one talks about the fact that faux-vaginas are prone to rupture and cause fistulas (openings) into the colon or the abdomen.
Maintaining a faux vagina is (to my understanding) a life-long project of wearing dialators so that the tissue doesn't heal. Real vaginas have mechanisms that lubricate and clean them---think about the consequences then of having a faux vagina.
I feel for those who experience gender dysphoria; it's a real mental condition. We just CAN NOT allow that fact to impact that bodies of children. An individual transperson who in adulthood really really wishes that he/she had been able to stop their sexual development in childhood because that would enable them to more easily pass now does not provide a basis for inflicting grievous mutilation on children who appear to be questioning their identity as male or female.
"If you've never had an orgasm pre-surgery"....
Based on that little bit of phraseology it will be no more than 2 years before these same doctors are arguing in favor of sexual molestation of "trans" kids so they will ALWAYS have had an orgasm "pre-surgery".
The Left wants society to accept child molestation and same sex pederasty. This will be just another turn of the ratchet.
Let's do some cleanup on aisle 6:
"Natal Males" - those are 'boys'. Regardless of what they or their enablers think.
"Neovagina" - sort of a neocolonialist or neoconservative non-vagina. Basically a c**t. But also not. This term has application to politics in general, not just to the politics of trans-enablement and feminism.
My head just exploded.
Amazon Breaks Silence, Explains Why It Erased ‘When Harry Became Sally’
Kids should not be able to be cut up and made into little Frankensteins. They should at least be 18. This is child abuse. Sorry, not sorry. Progressivism is Regressive
“a labia”
Is that good English?
Fernandinande said...
"The remains of the half-finished creature, whom I had destroyed, lay scattered on the floor, and I almost felt as if I had mangled the living flesh of a human being." -- Frankenstein
10/7/21, 11:31 AM
I wrote my above comment before I read yours. Great minds think alike.
What does puberty have to do with orgasm??
If you've never had an orgasm pre-surgery......
.....then you're doing it wrong.
I'm not reading it. It's full of denial. What a bunch of self-mutilating fucktards!!
I don't remember NOT masturbating with orgasms. I mean.....masturbation is a lot like work, and I would not have pursued it without the orgasm!!
What a surprise it was at 11 years of age, and I ejaculated. It was about a year later, that my Boy Scout Handbook assured me that I was perfectly normal.
The Boy Scout Handbook also mentioned wet dreams. I had exactly one. She just retired as a university administrator.
Yeah......I wasn't very good at wet dreams.
First do no harm.
I don’t see how they’re following that precept.
"It's kind of an overlooked problem"
As in, deliberately evaded and avoided, the better to inflict pain for the sake of ideology.
How can consent be informed if the consenter does not and cannot know what s/he is consenting to? If such consent is impossible, why is early trans surgery not ipso facto malpractice?
...and it doesn’t smell like vagina.
I see a market opportunity for a new line of candles...
This is horrifying. Puberty blockers for kids and genital surgery of this sort are the stuff of dystopian sci-fi nightmare fiction. It’s a shame it’s intentionally intertwined with the non-binary identities and other non-horrific aspects of our sexual and gender identity debate, but the medical stuff is pure Dr. Mengele evil.
That some people believe you change a natal male into a female and vice versa with some hormone treatment and surgery is perhaps the ne plus ultra of our era’s confused episteme, which is pretentious foucaultian for paradigm. That the medical profession through its outspoken expert and professional ane ethical governance bodies perpetuates this notion is proof of the decline of the profession, of all professions.
The more these procedures in all their horrifying detail and consequences are discussed, revealed, the sooner t he reckoning I hope. Previously I’ve mostly heard about the terrible outcomes from regretful trans/detransitioning people trying to get the word out, so perhaps it’s progress that an expert in the field is out there talking about what they do to their patients, and what could and often does go wrong.
It's not good Latin.
One labium.
Two labia (standard equipment for female humans).
Actually, there are labia majora and labia minora (big lips and little lips).
Nobody has only one.
This is doing harm.
It's child abuse and malpractice.
Call the police and lawyers.
Perhaps if they coupled the surgery with a pre-frontal lobotomy some of the harmful effects of this operation could be mitigated.....You wonder why doctors like Gosnell and Kevorkian chose to enter the field of medicine. Ditto with those physicians who enter the field of trans gender surgery.
this may be the most surreal and disgusting thing I have ever read.
I agree with Mr. Wibble's sentiments.
We apparently need legislation to outlaw this barbarity.
This is madness. Stop the madness. We need a return to normalcy and and end to the self destructive act of defining deviancy down. A mental condition is not an excused for physical mutilation. See, electroshock therapy and compulsory sterilization.
Re: gilbar:
It's times like this, i wish i was a lawyer; 'cause the lawsuits are going to be worth BILLIONS
I used to think so, and still sort of do. But there has been such intense pressure by activists to suppress any expression of professional concern (medical or psychological) around sex changes, that I think it will be difficult to make a medical malpractice claim, however justified it may be. If the medical literature has all been rigged to exclude any critical discussion of the downsides of using hormone treatments and surgically creating new genitalia, how do you prove a departure from the applicable standard of care? It's not outside the realm of possibility that activists could get a ruling from a sufficiently "woke" judge that refusing to perform these kinds of procedures is a kind of sex discrimination or something, which would make the standard of care argument even harder.
Yikes.
The discussion should emphasize these nitty-gritty details over and over, no matter how gruesome they are. People need to know the collateral damage of such easy-to-say ideas.
Reminds me of those female mutilations we denounced in the past. But, gender-wise, more equal now, I guess.
Althouse, "First do no harm.
I don’t see how they’re following that precept."
They aren't. But they are driven by politics, ideology, a fad and money. It really is sick. And the worst of it is that the states aren't stopping this. If you can't buy a beer until age 21, how is it that you can mutilate your sex organs?
“Wynona's got herself a big brown beaver
And she shows it off to all her friends
One day, you know, that beaver tried to leave her,
So she caged him up with cyclone fence
Along came Lou with the old baboon
And said Recognize that smell?
Smells like seven layers,
That beaver eats Taco Bell”
“a labia”
a labius?
Such stories can leave you filled with despair for the future of humanity. When you read about such barbarism and realize much of the medical community is all on board with it how can you not question their humanity? These "Top Trans Doctors" and all their not-so-top cohorts are little more than modern day reincarnations of the fictional Dr. Victor Frankenstein.
If the vaccine regime with its ever-expanding number of "boosters" (cha-ching!) wasn't enough to demonstrate the manner in which "Big Pharma" owns the government of this country, witness the rise of the trans movement and "affirmation" surgeries.
Even without the surgeries and retinue of dilating/lubricating/maintenance prescriptions that are likely a part of one's new genitalia, the lifelong prescription of hormones and suppressors is a rich new market for the drug companies. Lifelong customers are the best kind, after all.
Oh, and should their non-orgasmic / non-pleasured personal misery ever become enough of an issue guess what? There's a prescription for that, too!
Welcome to Brave New America, where a gram is better than a damn!
At the moment, 4 of my tween/ teenage nieces and grand nieces are "trans". As far as I know no hormone blockers, yet. Both my Democrat voting sisters and niece think this is fine. According to them we have to let the kids discover who they are.
I tried to have a conversation with one sister about these types of problems for trans people, and she got grossed out and didn't want to talk about it. She thought I was sick for bringing it up. I replied that these are exactly the type of things I would talk about with any child of mine who was thinking about transitioning. She just stared at me like she couldn't understand. These so-called "woke" people are very shallow thinkers. I pray for these kids.
Perhaps if they self identified as a Delta Smelt the might gain some protection from this genital mutilation industry.
Night Owl... You might point out the horrific suicide rates for trans people. The rates are as secret as the nuclear launch codes for a reason.
Frankenstein? I think more like Josef Mengele MD. Do these surgeons wear their arm bands on their scrubs? Asking for a friend.
That's twice in one week, another blogpost I wish I could unread. You're on a roll Ann!
Remember when we used to despise those who performed clitorectomies on young girls?
In these enlightened days, we can now only object that they are practicing medicine without a license.
>> These so-called "woke" people are very shallow thinkers.
Deep 'feelings' beats shallow 'thinking' every time.
"Both my Democrat voting sisters and niece think this is fine."
What do their husbands think?
Imagine being a divorced, middle class, non-custodial parent who faithfully pays child support. You have a good relationship with your child but not your ex. They live in a different state than you but you get custody during the summer months which is nice because you teach and generally have the summers off. Last year your ex secretly began taking said child to a psychologist who affirmed your child's sudden belief that he is a she. This is all news to you. Puberty blockers and surgery are the next step. You can't afford more lawyers so what remedy do you have if you disagree?
It gets better. Want a truly unique gender identity? You can have BOTH a penis and vagina.
https://www.alignsurgical.com/non-binary/phallus-preserving-vaginoplasty/
"they used to hand-cut and sew people like garments. Needles and sutures, all the terrible pain!"
"Lifelong customers are the best kind, after all."
The get you on the come-back.
- Chris Rock
Crimes against children. I don't like their chances when they have to explain themselves to Jesus.
Where to start? Oh, I know...don't cut off your Slauson to start with.
Words to live by...
Ann Althouse said...
First do no harm.
I don’t see how they’re following that precept.
Y'all need to keep in mind, that a MAJOR player in the "gender affirmation" business is:
Planned Parenthood
When you vacuum children up out of wombs, for a living; The idea of First do no harm is kind fluid
Balfegor said...
Re: gilbar:
If the medical literature has all been rigged to exclude any critical discussion of the downsides of using hormone treatments and surgically creating new genitalia, how do you prove a departure from the applicable standard of care?
I'm no lawyer, but; kids (tweenage kids) are walking into Planned Parenthood clinics, and walking out with chemical castration pills (puberty "blockers"). Parents aren't Even being TOLD.
Where's a LAW that says "you can prescribe castration pills to 12 year olds without even telling parents"?
These so-called "woke" people are very shallow thinkers. I pray for these kids.
Pray for the country as well. The (once open minded liberals) woke have been easily manipulated by Marxists.
The thinking is done for them.
Perhaps if they coupled the surgery with a pre-frontal lobotomy some of the harmful effects of this operation could be mitigated
Better yet, just do the lobotomy and quit while you're ahead.
I think it's interesting that the word "mother" does not appear in the original post or any of the comments. The role of mothers in all of this (and maybe absent fathers) should be explored.
The trans craze has different elements. Adolescent girls thinking they are boys is social contagion. Mothers transitioning small children is a combination of Munchausen by proxy and trying to climb higher on the victimology stack.
If you're some whitebread suburban mom and you want to get cred that you're a victim too, trans your kid.
How do you make an informed decision that your sexual organs are incorrect before you've ever had a chance to use them? If a male child wants to be able to act effeminately, by all means let them, but don't start cutting things off until they've had a chance to experience what those organs can do. They might change their mind.
The operative precepts for the Woke Elite is humiliate, impoverish, and demoralize the lower classes. Mutilating their children is a prime move.
bobby: "How do you make an informed decision that your sexual organs are incorrect before you've ever had a chance to use them?"
I believe this is where John Weaver, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, Reed Galen, George Conway and the rest of the Lincoln Pedophile Project wanted to "get involved".....
Ann Althouse said...
First do no harm.
I don’t see how they’re following that precept.
**********
I've been told that the Hippocratic oath is "sooo 20th Century", and that most newly-minted MDs don't take it.
So...anything goes. Loppadicfromies, Addadictomies....
I’d rather have a free bottle in front of me than a prefrontal lobotomy.
(Eaglebeak)
Labia is a Latin plural form. Singular is labium (a neuter word). It means lip.
in a slightly lighter mode...
My niece is a car. She used to be a human being. We’re not supposed to talk about that anymore.
Balfegor said... there has been such intense pressure by activists to suppress any expression of professional concern (medical or psychological) around sex changes, that I think it will be difficult to make a medical malpractice claim, however justified it may be. If the medical literature has all been rigged to exclude any critical discussion
You may be right, but they taught us in torts class that “normal course of business” is not an airtight defence. Sometimes the entire industry is negligent.
>>Is that good English?
Good butter and good cheese/Is good English and good Fries.
Somebody commented recently on an Althouse post that they wished they had never read it. I feel much the same here, though it's probably better to know about what's going on here.
--gpm
These young people are being preyed upon for money. Many of these specialized surgical centers are more than happy to do the surgeries but there is no service after the sale. A young trans person come through our women’s clinic after a botched surgery in Canada that resulted in a rectovaginal fistula. None of our surgeons are even remotely familiar with these procedures so I reached out to a couple of local trans surgery centers. Unbelievably, the centers had no provision for follow up or referral resources. The poor patient was devastated by the appearance of the area, refused an exam and declined any treatment. Pretty lies are being fed to these kids and it is just criminal.
And the correct singular is labium, as already noted, but the use of “labia” as both singular or plural in medicine is widespread. Pretty common test question, too, but no one ever remembers the correct term.
On a whim, I just checked out Balfegor's profile after reading one of his (always interesting) comments (I have to admit my profile is blank because, well, because). Couldn't read the ferrin stuff but otherwise seemed like a big overlap with my interests. Biggest differences probably are that I never got into classical music (more of a Beatle freak/60's music freak who later got into what the radio station in N.H. used to call "ballads, bing bands, jazz and swing," plus "show tunes" that I listen to every weekend on the Emerson College radio station), and I'm apparently more of a math/science guy. Oh, and that law thing I've been doing for over forty years to put food on the table (the comment that spurred the whim was on a legal point).
I need to check out John McWhorter's new location since he left Lexicon Valley on Slate a month or so ago. Language Log is of some interest, but it's a bit heavily oriented to Chinese, which I know nothing about.
--gpm
File under "because we can"
I tend to think "a labia" is bad grammar. It should be a pair of labia (or perhaps, a pair of a pair of labia--accuracy starts to get a little pedantic, no?) But I'm a curmudgeon. Yes, it's a fine collection of octopodes and a great assembly of many jarred fetus for me.
That said, collectivization of Latin plurals into English singulars is very common. One is likely get dirty looks insisting that this data, that media, this alumni, that criteria, this phenomena, that agenda, or this memoranda has a horribly mismatched adjective number.
YMMV, and experiments are best done away from classics departments and in the absence of sharp objects.
"What do their husbands think?"
My niece is divorced and I don't know what her husband thinks. I get the idea that he was initially opposed, but goes along because he has no choice if he wants to be able to see his "sons".
The other father, who is my brother, I haven't spoken to in depth about it. His 2 daughters just declared their transness in the past few months.
I get the sense that there's an unspoken belief (hope) that his younger girls are just following the example of their older cousins. And that this is just a fad that they will all outgrow. I don't hear any talk of hormones, thank goodness.
But what's ridiculous is that no one dares say anything negative --except for me and my mother, but not in front of the girls. My relatives, especially the females, try to out do each other on the virtual signaling. No real discussion. Just mindless platitudes.
One problem with Shrier is that she uses the misleading pronoun lie.
I have two good friends that are trans, one had her surgery with Marcie Bowers, the other with a different doctor. These two really are women, but yes with a male past. This was the right choice for each of them, both of them sensed they were female since around 5, their parents were not cool on this transitioning and they themselves wanted to experience adolescence and early adulthood before transitioning. Their doctors required them to live as female for over a year before prescribing any hormones, and at least 2 years after that before the surgery, just to be sure. I suspect nearly half 'drop out' in that 1st year, and 3/4 drop out in the next period. A tough approach as it should be.
There are two big camps in the trans community: those that are very realistic and carefully follow best practices - they are more than OK. But there is a libtard camp that flourishes in Woke Valley - creator's of all 50 some genders - nuts. This is the group that is off the reservation.
Marcie Bowers is THE Surgeon everyone wants for their surgery, waiting list well over a year long, thanks to Obamacare they are covered by insurance, at least in WA, OR, and CA. The insurance companies also like her because Marcie has far less complications than others doing the surgery. On a scale of 1 to 10, she is nearly a 10.
Marcie is professional enough to speak for what is right for her patients, and is willing to fight the Woke libtards. Time for a bit of popcorn because a show like EV's in CA where they can't keep the lights on is brewing. It appears things are moving conservative's way.
Jay talked about men becoming women, saying...
Their doctors required them to live as female for over a year before prescribing any hormones, and at least 2 years after that before the surgery, just to be sure
As SE Hinton would say, That Was THEN, This Is NOW
Now, the Overwhelming majority of trans folk are not adult men that have thought they were women their whole lives; that are cautiously entered into treatment
In Today's Brave New World; the Overwhelming majority of trans folk are teen aged girls,
that up until last month, thought/Knew they were girls; but NOW think it'd be COOL to be guy. They thought about it for a week, studied up (on correct responses) for another week; and last week went to Planned Parenthood... For their FIRST consult
They are NOW on hormones, and Planned Parenthood is taking home their insurance money
Next month (or the month after), maybe they'll tell their mom (they Have no dad)
Ann Althouse said...
First do no harm.
I don’t see how they’re following that precept.
-------------
you will see the light : say after me ... /to the bottom line/ ....
especially if they have 'education loans' to pay off
My pediatrician spouse had an unusual case of the opposite issue - a three year old male patient exhibited a mature penis, reportedly on the larger end of the distribution for size even flaccid, due to an early onset of testosterone production. When the parents were told, and asked if it might just be a family trait, the mother glanced at her husband's beltline with a smile and said, "Oh, yes!" causing both parents and my spouse to break up laughing. The child was put on hormone blockers to keep his bones growing properly and is doing well, despite retaining his mature-sized member, which has endeared him to his daycare staff.
And yes, every doctor and nurse in the clinic had to come and look, many lewd jokes were made away from the parents' hearing, and two years later the young man is still a subject of amused comment at work.
It's sad to see Dr.Bowers who had a good reputation twenty years ago try to keep relevance by indulging the noted transphobe Abigail Shrier with what Bowers should know is falsehood. If she doesn't know it, she should re-up her continuing education -- or retire and shut up. When a transgender youth who is FtM is fortunate to experience puberty blocking followed by the hormone profile of the desired puberty, they have no problems orgasming at all -- testosterone takes care of that. When in the otherwise same situation the transgender youth is MtF, they can (far from always) benefit from a low dose testosterone cream applied directly to the genitals -- that will promote the growth which permits easier surgery and makes orgasms a non-problem without promoting unwanted overall masculinization.
Now Bowers is a surgeon and not an endocrinologist, but even in her field she inflicted on for example Jazz Jennings an obsolete surface skin graft vaginoplasty ... and that hasn't been best practice for 20 years.
She shows every sign of being a has-been desperate to hold onto the limelight.
She was once a star surgeon.
"Their doctors required them to live as female for over a year before prescribing any hormones, and at least 2 years after that before the surgery, just to be sure
As SE Hinton would say, That Was THEN, This Is NOW"
That's still how it is now if insurance is paying for it, and how many healthcare providers insist it is done even if out of pocket.
@Gilbar
"It's times like this, i wish i was a lawyer; 'cause the lawsuits are going to be worth BILLIONS "
No. Hasn't happened for 70 years running and won't happen now. That's because the accuracy of diagnosis is very, very high, ad it is trivially easy for example on Youtube to see detransitioners are generally people who either evaded therapy altogether, seeking informed consent as adults; or, thy are among the very few who both lied effectively for years to be falsely treated for a condition they did not have and persisted despite not liking the changes the treatment produced.
Less than one percent of people who receive genital reconstruction later say transition was the wrong thing for them.
You'll wait forever for your backlash.
Oh typos.
"testosterone takes care of that. When in the otherwise same situation the transgender youth is MtF, they can (far from always) benefit from a low dose testosterone cream applied directly to the genitals " <-- Should read --> "testosterone takes care of that. When in the otherwise same situation the transgender youth is MtF, they can (far from always needed) benefit from a low dose testosterone cream applied directly to the genitals"
I hope my other typoes will be overlooked, but that one is consequential.
It would have been beneficial to hear from her last year when states were debating funding puberty blockers for teens and whether parental permission was necessary.
Back then the the talk was about the problems of not administering the drugs early enough, not on the risks and perils of doing so.
But personally, I would have been happy not hearing about the details at all.
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