Here's the transcript.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Paul, let me begin with a threshold question for you. This election was not stolen, do you accept that fact?
SENATOR RAND PAUL, (R-KY): Well, what I would say is that the debate over whether or not there was fraud should occur, we never had any presentation in court where we actually looked at the evidence. Most of the cases were thrown out for lack of standing, which is a procedural way of not actually hearing the question. There were several states in which the law was changed by the secretary of state and not the state legislature. To me, those are clearly unconstitutional and I think there’s still a chance that those actually do finally work their way up to the Supreme Court. Courts traditionally and historically don’t like to hear election questions. But yes. Were there people who voted twice? Were there dead people who voted? Were there illegal aliens who voted? Yes, and we should get to the bottom of it. I’ll give you an example. In my state, when we had a Democrat secretary of state, she refused, even under federal order, to purge the roles of illegal voters. We got a Republican secretary of state and he purged the rules.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Senator Paul, I have to... I have to stop you there. No election is perfect. But there were 86 challenges filed by President Trump and his allies in court, all were dismissed. Every state certified the results.... The Department of Justice led by William Barr said there's no widespread evidence of fraud. Can’t you just say the words, this election --
PAUL: No.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- was not stolen?
PAUL: Well, what I would suggest is -- what I would suggest is that if we want greater confidence in our elections, and 75 percent of Republicans agree with me, is that we do need to look at election integrity and we need to see if we can restore confidence in the elections.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, 75 percent of Republicans agree with you because they were fed a big lie by President Trump and his supporters to say the election was stolen. Why can't you say --
PAUL: Well, I think --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- President Biden won a legitimate, fair election --
PAUL: -- I think where you make a mistake in -- hey, George. George. George, where you make a mistake is that people coming from the liberal side like you, you immediately say everything's a lie instead of saying there are two sides to everything. Historically what would happen is if said that I thought that there was fraud, you would interview someone else who said there wasn’t. But now you insert yourself in the middle and say that the absolute... fact is that everything that I’m saying is a lie.... Let’s talk about the specifics of it. In Wisconsin, tens of thousands of absentee votes had only the name on them and no address. Historically those were thrown out, this time they weren't. They made special accommodations because they said, oh, it’s a pandemic and people forgot what their address was. So they changed the law after the fact. That is wrong, that's unconstitutional. And I plan on spending the next two years going around state to state and fixing these problems and I won’t be cowed by liberals in the media who say, there's no evidence here and you're a liar if you talk about election fraud. No, let's have an open debate. It’s a free country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: There is no widespread evidence of election fraud that overturned that results. That was stated as well by the Department of Justice led by President Trump's attorney general. In Wisconsin, there were counts and recounts...
PAUL: It was never studied. Even that's not true. Even that’s not true. Even that's not true.
STEPHANOPOULOS: William Barr said that directly.
PAUL: Barr said that, but there was -- yes, he said that, yes. That was a pronouncement. There's been no examination, thorough examination of all the states to see what problems we had and see if they could fix them. Now, let me say to be clear, I voted to certify the state electors because I think it would be wrong for Congress to overturn that. But at the same time, I’m not willing just to sit here and say, oh, everybody on the Republican side is a liar and there is no fraud. No, there were lots of problems and there were secretaries of state who illegally changed the law and that needs to be fixed. And I’m going to work hard to fix it. And I won’t be cowed by people saying, oh, you’re a liar. That’s the problem with the media today is they say all Republicans are liars, and everything we say is a lie. There are two sides to every story. Interview somebody on the other side, but don’t insert yourself into the story to say we’re all liars, because we do think (ph) there’s some fraud and the election needs to be fixed....
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sir, there are not -- there are not two sides to this story. This has been looked in every single state.
PAUL: Sure there are. There are two sides to every story. George, you're forgetting who you are. You’re forgetting who you are as a journalist if you think there's only one side. You're inserting yourself into the story to say I’m a liar because I want to look at election fraud and I want to look at secretaries of state who illegally changed the voter laws without the permission of their state legislatures. That is incontrovertible, it happened. And you can't just sweep it under the rug and say, oh, nothing to see here, and everybody is a liar and you're a fool if you bring this up. You’re inserting yourself into the story. A journalist would hear both sides and there are two sides of a story....
STEPHANOPOULOS: There can be more investigations. The investigations that have taken place have shown there’s not enough fraud to change the results of this election. That has been certified by every state. It was stated by the Justice Department and the attorney general.
PAUL: And I accepted the states' certifications. But it doesn't mean that I think there wasn’t fraud and that there weren’t problems that have to be investigated. And it doesn’t mean that the law wasn’t broken. I believe in Pennsylvania, they broke the law, and I believe if that ever will get a real hearing in the Supreme Court, it was denied for standing. It wasn’t actually taken up. If it were taken up, I do believe that the Supreme Court would overrule and say that they did break the law illegally.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I asked you a very simple question, was the election stolen or not?
PAUL: I think there was great deal of evidence of fraud and changing of the election laws illegally. And I think a thorough investigation is warranted.
And that's where it ended. Paul never accepted or rejected the word "stolen," and he made his point very clearly and with detail and he effectively scolded Stephanopoulos for taking sides.
Posts
304 comments:
1 – 200 of 304 Newer› Newest»As I've stated before, the "no election is perfect and this one was not stolen" crowd need to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that the totality of the fraud that they themselves acknowledge did not, in fact, result in a stolen election.
And Stephanopolous should know ahead of time that he is no match intellectually for Rand Paul.
Clintonopolis is manipulating for the correct answer to his authoritarian question.
Clintonopolis is advocating for his party, and not acting as a curious journalist.
If Rand doesn't comply - Rand is "A liar!"
Our media is a disgrace.
STEPHANOPOULOS: There is no widespread evidence of election fraud that overturned that results.
What an appropriately Clintonian type of answer.
George seems to know for certain that the fraud was not widespread nor would investigating the fraud overturn the results.
He chooses faith over science!
Clearly, the Democrats believe the election was stolen. Every single thing they’ve done since election night reinforces that.
The bad news for them is that this conversation is just beginning. All weapons get used in politics and this one is, essentially, factory-fresh. With the hair-on-fire hysteria period passed, you’re going to start seeing the fraud accusations brought up more, not less. Slowly at first, but reaching a crescendo by the mid-terms.
Senator Paul got the better of that exchange. The sawed-off corksoaker Snuffaluffagus, like all the rest of them, is an incurious liar with an agenda.
Kudos to Rand Paul!
I think "Stephanopoulos" is Greek for "partisan hack."
That is all.
The left will not stand for anything but adherence to the narrative and loyalty to The Party(D).
The gaslighting will continue until morale improves.
Just ask him if Russia helped Trump "steal" the election from what's her name.
The burden of proof is on election administrators and on those who design the systems to prove the elections they conduct are free and fair and that the outcomes reflect the will of the voters.
How is that an extremist position?
If the authorities can't do that quickly and efficiently, something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. Shouting down, censoring, vilifying citizens, or their representatives, who point this out is not going to cut it.
You’re forgetting who you are as a journalist if you think there's only one side.
George Stephanopoulos was never a journalist. He was a Clinton aide who mysteriously lucked into an anchorman's job.
Good for Rand Paul to articulate what many have been thinking.
Watching Chuckles Todd this morning interview the Senator from SD indicates the talking points were distributed and received. These media types are so disgusting to watch that I only do it for comic relief.
Just because a state certifies it's election doesn't mean that the certification is accurate.
And just because Bill Barr says something doesn't mean it's true. It's especially galling to hear lefties accept this statement by Barr as the gospel when they called him a liar and every other nasty thing they could think of up until the election. It would be nice if "journalists" like Georgie would ask Barr what type of instigation DOJ conducted into the election results from PA, MI, WI, GA, AZ, and NV.
While I do not believe the election was stolen, I also don't believe asking about possible fraud should get one banished from civilization. The idea that anyone who demonstrates curiosity in the issue is now an enemy of the state is just plain stupid and un-american. It leads to the idea that any questioning of the state is traitorous.
You can watch the goalposts move in real time:
First: "No election is perfect."
Second: "The Department of Justice led by William Barr said there's no widespread evidence of fraud."
Third: "President Biden won a legitimate, fair election [despite admitting no election is perfect, and having no way of knowing the extent of this election's imperfection.]"
Fourth: "There is no widespread evidence of election fraud that overturned that results."
If you are upset that the election may have been stolen, just remember, it was done for the greater good by those who know what's best because they're smarter and gooder.
Why even have Rand Paul on just to call him a liar and to use the "big lie" Nazi-innuendo against Republicans again?
If you’re a foreign leader (other than those of China, Russia, and Iran) and your analysts have told you that, yeah, there must have been significant fraud in the swing-state urban counties, how does that affect your dealings with the fraudulent leadership of the United States? Given the doubts it raises about credibility and long-term stability. God, I would love to hear some of the conversations that must be taking place in the ministries in Europe and Asia.
Things like this make you wonder if Little George is somewhere on the autism spectrum. He certainly clung to a phrase “the election was not stolen” while Sen. Paul talked about areas of concern that should be investigated in the wake of 2020.
You would think that it would be in everyone’s interest to be sure that election rules and practices conform to the US Constitution and to the election laws in effect at the beginning of the election.
The Democrats really soiled themselves with that Washington governor’s election several years ago and the Al Franken election in MN. Many people see them as the party that will keep counting newly discovered ballots until they get ahead— and then stop.
"While I do not believe the election was stolen, I also don't believe asking about possible fraud should get one banished from civilization'
-- I don't think we can make any progress on election fraud until election COMPETENCE is fixed. For example, there are several states that let people just enter birthdates for voters who didn't list their own. How is that something a competent electoral system does? What about the multiple states that lost multiple USBs of votes -- remember, in GA, several thousand people's votes would not have been counted if Trump hadn't pushed for them to bother double checking their counts. All of those USBs that had tallies of votes that election officials had lost or misplaced, by the way, mysteriously were strongly or moderately pro-Trump.
We still don't have an answer about why there was a lie about a water pipe break, or why only some people weren't told that counting was resuming, for example. That's not a "fraud" issue. That's basic competence. We don't know why, yet again in urban Pennsylvania districts, for, what, the fifth or sixth presidential election in a row, Republican poll watchers needed to go to court the same day in several places to get access, despite having the paperwork properly taken care of. That's a competence issue.
Purging voter rolls (not rules)? That's a competence issue. Not following rules/procedures for what ballots to count? Competence, not fraud.
We want *competence* in our elections.
“ Sir, there are not -- there are not two sides to this story. This has been looked in every single state.”
Has it? Why does George S. get to just say stuff and no one cares if it’s true?
It’s crazy to hear Democrats talk about this. Don’t look! It’s over! Just accept it! No evidence of widespread fraud! That means it’s been looked into already, very thoroughly! Move on!
Why do they sound so scared and eager to close the book on this? It just makes me suspicious, and I’m not even an election truther.
Democrats spent 3 years indulging insane fantasies about Russian interference in 2015. And many are still suffering Russiagate fever. And Democrats objected in 2000 and 2004. But now, all of a sudden, the American electoral system is pristine and incapable of fraud, even with the haphazard changes to the system in many states because of Covid. Just incredible.
Three questions need to be pulled apart.
1. Was there fraud?
2. If there was fraud, was it possible to bring evidence of this fraud before a court (given all of the constraints) in such a way that a court could reach a judgement that there was legally cognizable fraud?
3. If there was legally cognizable fraud, was there a possible remedy?
Mush these three questions together and you get a steaming mess of nonsense. Stephanopoulos is mushing them together; Paul is keeping them sorted.
100% Team Rand Paul
It is important to Steph that the idea there was fraud be declared "debunked" and non-discussable, because the way this election went has to continue.
The next part of voting competence: Why were multiple jurisdictions rushing to delete data after the 2020 election, and why did they require court orders to save the kind of data we can still pull from previous elections? Was there a change in policy that wasn't made known?
You’re forgetting who you are as a journalist if you think there's only one side.
*************************
That should be said to ALL proglodyte "journalists" and self-described "pundits" who smear good-faith opinions as "lies" and then scamper off w/o supporting their assertions.
Somehow the word "lie" has been transformed from its original definition---a false statement known to be false at the time a person utters it---into "a statement I disagree with, but haven't the wit to contest with facts and reason."
Don't let them get away with it.
And I love how elegantly Althouse has raised the issue here. Now that the initial Sturm und Drang is over, she’s feeling relaxed enough to obliquely air some of her own doubts about the legitimacy of the election
"3. If there was legally cognizable fraud, was there a possible remedy?"
-- This is the real problem. Once you have successfully mixed fraudulent ballots in with valid ballots... what can you do? Let's say you have 10 ballots. You know 6 of the 10 are fraudulent... but not which ones.
In a group that small, you can probably call a revote.
If you have, say, 400,000 fake ballots, and another 300,000 questionable ballots... out of say, 2 million... and the margin of victory was say, 350,000... what do you do? Re-voting at that scale is next to impossible. You can't tell which 350,000 ballots are fake.
This is why you can't really attack voter fraud *after the votes are cast.* Prevention is the only real method to effectively combat voter fraud.
And George, if you want to host a political show, you need to understand your fellow citizens better.
I don't think there was election fraud because Trump says there was. I completely tuned him out after the election.
I think there was election fraud because humans cheat in every endeavor, and when the stakes are incredibly high and its easy to do, people are going to cheat doing it. The idea that people wouldn't come up with cheating schemes for our elections is absolutely against human nature.
So you have to do everything you can to prevent it. And this year, of all years, was not that. The circumstances of the election this year created a cheater's paradise.
The collective left use the word "Debunked" in unison to make sure we are not allowed to discuss election fraud.
But it was all A-OK to discuss the bogus narrative pushed by Hillary and Christopher Steele that Russia stole the election from its rightful owner in 2016.
A shit ton of people witnessed what they thought was fraud. Signed affidavits saying so. Compelling hearings were held and those hearings were completely ignored by the hack incurious narrative Democrat Party press. Also known as the mainstream media.
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
With the hair-on-fire hysteria period passed, you’re going to start seeing the fraud accusations brought up more, not less. Slowly at first, but reaching a crescendo by the mid-terms.
1/24/21, 11:31 AM
After watching Liz Cheney set her career on fire, the number of Republicans saying the election was legitimate will near zero. An Olympic sprinting competition conducted with this much corruption and boosting (with steroids instead of counterfeit votes) would have long since been disqualified. Biden's upraised middle fingers to his supposed blue-collar base are only going to crush the motivation of Democrats- and bring Republicans over to a more resilient, coherent way of thinking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/20/qanon-biden-inauguration-trump-antisemitism-white-nationalism
There was fraud. I can't prove that it changed the result of the election and don't believe anyone else can. I don't think there was a legal remedy. In many cases it was hard or impossible to say "These ballots are valid, and these are invalid." Nobody wanted to take on that responsibility. Whoever did would look arbitrary and high-handed.
The thing people forget is that if a secretary of state or a state legislature or Congress or the vice president had overturned the reported results to give Trump a win, there would have been riots that would make what happened at the Capitol look like a Sunday picnic, blood in the streets.
Trump should have recognized that no one was going to do that for him. If they had, he'd go from being the victim of a coup to the one making a coup in the eyes of the media and most of the country. If you don't secure the election in advance and during the voting, there may just be no remedy afterwards.
Clearly, the Democrats believe the election was stolen. Every single thing they’ve done since election night reinforces that.
This! That’s the other part, isn’t it? The Democrats sure do act guilty, don’t they?
Everybody knows who and what George is. Some, including his bosses choose to ignore it. Goebbels’ “big lie” is the rule of the day among the leftmediaswine on election fraud just as it was on the Russia Hoax.
There is evidence of fraud on a massive scale. One must be either staggeringly ignorant, stupid or an unrepentant liar to deny it. The followup question is, “Can it be proven that it cost Trump the election?” Despite what the law of probabilities and common sense tell us, the answer is that it cannot. It is simply more likely than not.
The aim of Democrats and their ponces in the media is to keep the mechanisms in place to steal more elections. Hence denial, however ridiculous.
At this point given no real accounting has been, there are clearly two sides. Both sides can state their claim. One side can’t simply say I’m right and you’re wrong based on other people mimicking them. Now it’s up to the data to see which claim is closest to what happened. I am going to send Rand Paul some $ today based on this appearance and his drive to start to fix things that are very broken.
Would anyone on the left take Kaleigh McEnany seriously if she were now doing interview shows on Fox?
If she called herself a 'journalist.'?
Of course not, nor should they.
Like George, she is a political operative.
The gnome should be rightfully ignored.
Say the words! Say the words!!!!!
PAUL: Sure there are. There are two sides to every story. George, you're forgetting who you are. You’re forgetting who you are as a journalist if you think there's only one side.
The Big Lie and ridiculous fraud begins with Snufflegalapagos pretending to be a journalist. Imagine how many younger viewers (if they have any) have any idea about Georgie's background.
As much as it likely pained Paul to go into that interview, I'm glad he showed spine. He seems to be growing more, not less, aware of the scope of the shenanigans.
Kentucky has put forth a pair of R Senators with pretty contrasting mindsets.
By the way, ole Bill Barr was quite concerned about mail-in ballots before he deemed them inconsequential. But then...look how he viewed the odd confluence of random errors around Epstein's death. Raheem Kassam claims he had a moment with Barr, asking him about Hunter Biden and just got a stonefaced response.
Or Trump used the fight to get the word out about Voter Fraud to his supporters.
> Trump should have recognized that no one was going to do that for him.
The eGOP colluded with Democrats to allow the voter fraud to happen, and not be investigated.
The scorched earth tactics bring used against any elected official that questions the legitimacy is beyond incredible.
It’s VERY interesting who is acting as the enforcers against any question that fraud happened.
And is pushing the “insurrection” and attempted “coup” narrative.
The one that’s surprised me is Bill Barr.
The actions of corporate America is a close second.
Big Tech I’m surprised at their censorship.
A super power of Trump is to rip the masks off his opponents. And by fighting the fraud he achieved that.
CNN and MSNBC dopes are just unpaid Democrat surrogates.
The first rule of statistical inference is, Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That is, noisy or incomplete data can obscure the truth.
The proper response--for anyone who wants a more precise answer--is to gather more evidence, not to deny its existence. People who don't want to do that don't want to know the answer.
Do You Want Your Vote To Count? The MAGA of 2022. Unfortunately, in many places your vote to make your your vote count won’t count because the people counting the votes will make sure it isn’t counted.
Of course, the Big Lie is that Stephanoploulos was ever a journalist. He's a former Clinton staffer turned advocate by ABCnews. Just like Ben Rhodes, an Obama staffer who doesn't contribute to his brother's news on CBS, but instead contributes to NBC and MSNBC as an advocate. Advocates are inserting themselves in the middle; they only present one side.
Good on Rand Paul. The Overton Window is obvious. You are expected to accept that Biden won legitimately (seems like most Americans have or he wouldn't have been sworn in). But if you accept it, then you must accept there was no wide spread voter fraud. There was, but wide is a subjective word, which they then try to define as meaning enough to steal the election. But it doesn't take wide spread voter fraud to steal any election. Indeed, we were told $100,000 of Russian ads on Facebook was enough to steal the election for Trump in 2016. Anyway, if you dare accept "no wide spread voter fraud", then the argument is over for investigating any fraud that did occur.
If this was a legitimate election, then investigate the fraud that did occur. If it was so minor, why not investigate it? Don't you want to eliminate all fraud? Isn't one fraudulently cast vote disenfranchising a voter?
Alas, complaining about Stephanopolous is like shooting fish in a barrel, and he's only the symptom of the problem.
What's at issue is the 2016 election. The level of evidence that's needed to complain is the same level as that Putin and Trump coordinated to swing that election. In other words, you can pay someone to create evidence for you, then complain based on that evidence. That's the rule that's in place right now.
It's hard to give Stephenaopoulis the benefit of the doubt when he granted that there was fraud and he granted that investigations are not finished, which necessarily grants that there may be more fraud then has been proven so far, and yet insists it's a lie that the election was stolen.
"Of course, the Big Lie is that Stephanoploulos was ever a journalist."
It recalls the time on Nightline when William Buckley refused to debate Soviet "journalist" Vladimir Posner.
I've always been frustrated when the obvious hack-D press get away with their overt biased one-sided Party-loyalist hackery.
I've always wanted to see more of what Rand does here. Push-back. (tho - I'd like to see a more aggressive approach)
Turn the tables. Ask the hack(D) "journalist" who is attempting to corner you with narrative and BS - turn it around and ASK the hack journalist questioner a question, and demand an answer.
.
IE: "Mr. Stephanopolis - you used to work for Bill Clinton, a man who used his power to enrich himself and his family personally, with secret international deals. Do you support illegal international grift, when your party does it, Mr. Stephanopolis??"
"75 percent of Republicans agree with me"
What he should have said, to be correct, is that he agrees with the 75% of Republicans ...
WHAT THE . . .???
Headline at top of Washington Post right now -
"Anarchists and extremists divide the left as Biden term begins"
Remember, Rand Paul is, or was, on the Trumpkins' shit list.
Isn't it funny how only democrat staffers and Party loyalists get the big MSM "news" gigs?
Maybe the Dems stole the election, maybe they didn't, but they sure as hell gave it the the old college try. That much is blatentently obvious. Anyone who tries to deny that cannot be trusted.
One thing that needs to happen, is that anyone caught at it needs to be severely punished. And I mean severely. 20 years in prison and forfeiture of all assets. The two panthers outside the polling place that Holder let go should have been strung up by their thumbs. Right beside Holder. Trust in the voting system is the very foundation of the Republic.
My understanding is that Trump will be spending a large portion of his time trying to help fix this.
I reserve the word "hate" for special circumstances. I don't h-a-t-e Little Georgie. But I do hate what he represents. He's a short little liberal schmuck who went to the Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper School of Journalisming. Big lie? That would be your bona fides, Georgie. Is it any wonder that people, particularly R's, so thoroughly loathe these people? The day is coming when one of the guests will drop a string of F-bombs on one of these folks on live TV.
The title is all most people pay attention to.
This is a perfect example of what’s wrong with the culture now. Asking about evidence is presented as a moral failing, and logic is called a melt-down.
I miss Tim Russert.
I wonder if we're going to be subjected to this for months, this effort to get Republicans to state that the election was free and fair and Biden won legitimately. And, if so, why is that necessary? Biden has been inaugurated, he's in the White House busily returning us to 2016 and Trump is in Florida playing golf, trying to find lawyers and banks that will do business with him.
It's like someone who got divorced but continues to go on and on about the ex. Eventually you just start avoiding that person because it's so tiresome and pointless. Of course I already avoid these talk shows so I guess all that's left is to avoid reading about them.
Big Mike
That's just what we do in Canada. We have an open, verifiable, process with various safeguards. You know, the stuff you rejected.
If Rand Paul had written a five-minute rap poem about election fraud and recited it with dramatic hand gestures, Stephanopoulos would have thought it was fabulous.
Sally
It works like this. If Paul agrees that Biden won then Stephanopoulos says “so you were lying when you said there was doubt”. That’s the tactic: any point of agreement becomes a confession.
Wait a minute
Were there really “tens of thousands of absentees in WI that did not have an address on them?
I believe this is the first time I have heard that listed as an irregularity.
This WAS a stolen election. And Joe and Harris are illegitimate products of it.
Democrats and Trump haters alike.....they know it too.
A few months ago, Young Hegelian gave us an excellent discussion of the epistemology of the leftie hivemind. It has nothing to do with the assiduous assembly of objective facts and reasonable conclusions, but rather, it is the coordinated, repeated, and widely distributed assertion of the desired outcome that becomes INDISPUTABLE FACT and KNOWLEDGE. This exchange with Sen Paul was the textbook example of what lefties knowto be true.
- Krumhorn
Ken B said...Remember, Rand Paul is, or was, on the Trumpkins' shit list.
--
State the issue involved when you roll up with that broad brush.
And specify who all the "Reagan haters" here are that you claimed the other day.
Krumhorn: "A few months ago, Young Hegelian gave us an excellent discussion of the epistemology of the leftie hivemind."
A few months ago, Young Hegelian gave us an excellent discussion of the epistemology of the leftie/LLR-lefty hivemind.
FIFY
In the age of universal mail voting, where ballots are sent unsolicited to every person whether they want a ballot mailed to them or not -- or whether they still live there or not, or whether they are still alive or not -- the old-style election fraud of forgery and manufacturing votes and "finding" ballot boxes in some corner is no longer necessary.
Today's election fraud is as simple as going around to not only every senior living complex, but every home on the block to "help" people fill out their ballots, particularly those people who have never bothered to go to the polls in the past and would not vote this time without some political operative imposing himself on them.
Stephanopoulos: "How many fingers am I holding up, Rand."
Once you have successfully mixed fraudulent ballots in with valid ballots... what can you do?
There's a simple remedy, but good luck getting it enacted into law.
Any precinct in which any violation of legally specified vote-counting procedures has been shown to have occurred shall have all of its votes invalidated. This includes not allowing poll watchers to observe the ballot-counting process, halting a vote count and then resuming it unannounced, and failing to remove people with baseball bats from standing in front of the polling place to intimidate voters.
That list is not exhaustive, of course.
Also, no mail-in ballots. Absentee voting only allowed within one week before election day, and conducted according to strict verification rules.
What the hell, throw in the purple finger ink too.
Didn't Stephie and his wife whine about wanting to leave the country after Hillary lost? No bias there.
Yeah - memory hole.
"Well, 75 percent of Republicans agree with you because they were fed a big lie by President Trump and his supporters to say the election was stolen."
This is intended to be a lie but drowns in the circular reasoning.
I formed my own opinion on the legitimacy of the election has was not influenced by President Trump or his supporters, of which I am one.
The BEST Sunday morning show is Maria Bartoromo at 10 am on Fox News. SHE asks the best questions of EVERYBODY, no matter what side they are on.
Any precinct in which any violation of legally specified vote-counting procedures has been shown to have occurred shall have all of its votes invalidated.
Great. Have Dems run the polls in heavily Republican precincts and intentionally violate the rules. Disenfranchise all the innocent voters. Toss all of the innocent party's votes.
I remain unconvinced there were voting irregularities sufficiently extensive to constitute fraud or to have altered the election outcome. Trump said well before the election that he could not lose except for fraud, thereby establishing a pre-existing, self-absolving excuse in case he did lose, simultaneously creating in the minds of his supporters a predisposition to assume fraud if Biden won. That said, Senator Paul's comments are perfectly reasonable, and Stephanopolous seems to not want to accept this.
"Any precinct in which any violation of legally specified vote-counting procedures has been shown to have occurred shall have all of its votes invalidated."
I'm sure you can see what could go wrong with that proposed remedy.
doctrev: " Biden's upraised middle fingers to his supposed blue-collar base are only going to crush the motivation of Democrats- and bring Republicans over to a more resilient, coherent way of thinking."
Unfortunately by 2022 the democraticals and FakeCons will likely have consolidated their corrupt voting mechanisms, unleashed the DOJ/FBI/NSA/IRS on any groups that are calling for election integrity, and created mechanisms for millions more illegals to vote.
Did everyone catch the Biden ruling this week to allow for illegals to be counted in the census?
That means the democratical states that were due to lose electoral votes via reapportionment will now likely increase their # of congressional districts or maintain their current number.
All previous estimates of anywhere from 4 to 8 red state pickups is now gone.
They are too adamant about not even allowing an examination, or an investigation into any of this. They will not even allow reasonable discussion.
I wonder why Jeff Bezos has requested that a judge postpone the union election at one of his Alabama warehouses. They've been OK'd for mail-in ballots. Jeff Bezos, who's WaPo finds that mail-in ballots worked perfectly in November, now says that they are an invitation to fraud.
How can that be?
George Stephanopoulos is a stooge. He's a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party and has been his entire career and any breathing adult knows that. He, and Chuck Todd over at NBC are a disgrace and should be considered poster boys for the demise of the news industry.
But everything was a lie, planned and started in advance of the election. Trump lawyers did not even bring fraud charges into court, until the end when the Lins and Powells took over. Paul is defending the use of fraud claims when he is himself only complaining about pandemic changes to voting procedure, which do not change the fact that actual eligible voters cast 7 million more votes for Biden than Trump.
simultaneously creating in the minds of his supporters a predisposition to assume fraud if Biden won.
No, I think it had more to do with what we saw before and during the election that any sort of predisposition.
Robert Cook: "I remain unconvinced there were voting irregularities sufficiently extensive to constitute fraud or to have altered the election outcome."
Unsurprising as you also remain unconvinced commie nations plowed tens of millions into mass graves in the 20th century.
I formed my own opinion on the legitimacy of the election has was not influenced by President Trump or his supporters, of which I am one.
That's the problem of having people from only one side doing the interviewing. They think people on the other side are stupid and are just thinking what Trump tells them to think. On their own side, they recognize nuances and differences. They themselves used reason to come to the conclusions they came to, and believe that anybody using reason would come to the same conclusion.
It's human nature to believe that, because you thought through something and decided one way, anyone who actually *thinks* would decide the same way.
And now they want to enshrine their own thinking - their own egos, really - into what is allowable discourse.
... which do not change the fact that actual eligible voters cast 7 million more votes for Biden than Trump.
Almost right. Seven million more votes were recorded. That doesn't mean seven million more votes were cast.
I've never thought much about Rand Paul as a POTUS candidate. Right now I'm still of a mind that governors need to be the candidates. But he has the integrity and the backbone to make the hard choices that need to be made. He has jumped up in my estimation in the Trump years.
The bigger picture about the news media is if we had a real one people like the Clintons and the Biden’s wouldn’t get past corrupt city council elections.
readering: "But everything was a lie, planned and started in advance of the election."
Readering, when not acting as a Stalin apologist, takes time to register his/her/xer disapproval for everyone noticing the democraticals and never trumpers destoyed voting integrity rules in every locale that they could and then engaged in unprecedented mass actions to expel observers and refusals to audit votes.
Sorry comrade. There are only 4 lights....
A great confrontation would be Wm. F. Buckley Jr. vs. Gore Vidal. This was a clean takedown by Paul.
A nice demonstration of one of the most important consequences of TrumpTime -- whatever diminishing power the TV talking heads still had in 2016, it died and was buried in the media's no-stop display of TDS. No one on the Rep/conservative side of the fence (and that's most of America) doubts for a minute that Stephie and his pals are just Dem operatives with a megaphone. Rand Paul lost nothing by refusing to accept Stephie's framing of the issue, and instead telling Stephie to shove it. Unity will just have to wait for the Second Coming. In the meantime, there's a cultural war that needs winning.
I'm sure you can see what could go wrong with that proposed remedy.
Yes, I can. Obviously the issue is the standard of evidence.
We can always stay with the current system, but then we should stop bitching about fraud when our candidate loses.
And precisely as predicted, one of the first bills our Soviet dems are vomiting up is a bill to permanently lock in the voting "procedures" used in 2020.
And in classic Orwellian commie fashion, its been labeled the For The People Act of 2021.
Because of course it is.
I have no idea why any Republican would appear on these shows. In fact, I'm getting so tired of it that I'm at the point where I'll without my vote from any Republican who continues to appear on DNC state run media. All it does is give partisan hacks like George a fake veneer of credibility.
It's time for Republicans to quit using Democrat controlled outlets to get their message out and to create new outlets of their own. If they can't figure out a way to do that, the party doesn't deserve to survive.
Robert Cook said…"Trump said well before the election that he could not lose except for fraud, …creating in the minds of his supporters a predisposition to assume fraud if Biden won."
Oh, bullshit. I qualify as a Trump supporter; I voted for him and think his policies as President were very good. My opinion as to the legitimacy of the election have nothing to do with his pronouncements. I don't even know what he said (though it's not hard to guess).
Readering said: which do not change the fact that actual eligible voters cast 7 million more votes for Biden than Trump.
The fraud is in the eligibility. Or at least some fraud is.
By the way- this is how they begin to lose this argument. By being so dismissive and totalitarian about it. They just seem like they have too much to cover. There are millions of people who believe this past election was a contrived, previously conceived and planned mess. You don't just wave your hand from a desk at ABC and dismiss what 75 million adults, many of who have lived long lives and have seen plenty of corruption in their time, think & feel deep down into their bones. This isn't going to go away.
And the more they dismiss it offhandedly, the more it's going to come back and sit in their laps.
A lot of putting hands over ears shouting I can't hear you.
Robert Cook said...I remain unconvinced there were voting irregularities sufficiently extensive to constitute fraud or to have altered the election outcome....That said, Senator Paul's comments are perfectly reasonable, and Stephanopolous seems to not want to accept this.
That is a perfectly logical and respectable position, Cookie. I beg to differ somewhat on the first point.
I am from Chicago where vote fraud is a well established way of life. I am convinced that there were millions of fake Biden votes from mail-ins and scanning fraud.
I don't know if the number of fake votes allowed Biden to win Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Arizona, but I have very strong suspicions. The way Democrats like Stephanopolous are treating this issue is like a kid who stole from the candy store and is running as fast as he can.
Original Mike said...
Robert Cook said…"Trump said well before the election that he could not lose except for fraud, …creating in the minds of his supporters a predisposition to assume fraud if Biden won."
My opinion as to the legitimacy of the election have nothing to do with his pronouncements. I don't even know what he said (though it's not hard to guess).
Agree, OM. Trump saying those things made me tune him out. The legitimacy of our election- at least the poor appearance of it- speaks for itself.
"Do you accept that fact?"
As we now see, fact is whatever progs declare to be the case.
"I do not agree with the title on this video, that Rand Paul "melts down.""
Well, that's nice, but we are dealing with prog propaganda here. New facts have to be created all the time. Progs' work never ends.
Robert Cook said……That said, Senator Paul's comments are perfectly reasonable, and Stephanopolous seems to not want to accept this."
It's stronger than that. He seeks to bury it.
Blogger Readering said..."A lot of putting hands over ears shouting I can't hear you."
Robert Cook and I agree.
I would like to see a lawyer go into Arizona court to establish vote fraud and offer a witness, "I am from Chicago so I know .... let me tell you about Mayor Daly in 1960...."
Blogger Readering said... A lot of putting hands over ears shouting I can't hear you.
--
I agree.
That's not funny has become Say the(se) words! or YOU shouldn't be heard.
Or in Trump's impeachment case. YOU shouldn't be heard, ever again!
Their righteous validity so evident they have to try to shut down any source of opposition.
Here's the big problem with the last election: Even if there was zero fraud, the election was run in such a manner that there was absolutely no way to verify that there was no fraud. Which makes one think there was some fraud, at least, because the election was set up to allow it.
How do you abet fraud? You eliminate protections against fake votes, eliminate transparency of election vote tallies, eliminate effective monitoring of vote counts, eliminate auditable trails for all votes. And then you report the highest percentages ever of eligible voters actually voting, from areas of historically low turnout, for a candidate with historically low appeal who ran no actual campaign, giving that bozo just enough mailed in votes to overcome actual people who voted in person. Seems a bit suspect.
What did the Democrat Party do throughout the past election? See above, right after "How do you abet fraud?"
Stirling Archer meme-ly explained that the way you get ants inthe office is by dropping the box of donuts in the office and not cleaning it up. Similarly, if you want vote fraud, you remove all protections against it, and then run the election with no way to tell if you have fraud.
AlGore was prevented from stealing the election of 2000 by a Republican "riot" where unmonitored vote tallying was prevented by trespass of Dockers-clad "rioters" into the supposedly "secure" area where the votes were to be tallied, unmonitored. That stopped the unmonitored tallying of votes. Otherwise, who doubts the election fight would have ended immediately after those votes were given to AlGore in numbers large enough to put him over the top?
Governor Scott White was elected in Wisconsin only because a Republican messed up reporting precinct vote tallies. With one un-noted precinct tally omission in the Repub vote numbers, the Dems had or created just enough votes to win the office of governor. When the missing precinct was finally reported, good gosh and golly gee, the Republican won, because the Dems had finalized their vote tally and could add no more votes for their candidate.
I could go on and on, from Senator Al Franken, elected by repeated "finds" of new ballots favoring him until he won, all the way back to JFK winning because Mayor Daley had the fix in for Illinois vote counts, and Johnson was ready in Texas to do the same.
Get the voters identifiable, and ballot handling secured. Get the vote counting auditable, honestly monitored, and secured from fraudulent ballots.
Otherwise, elections are just a means of seeing who cheats more.
Steponpoupalot, Carville, Begala, etc., a true Nest of Vipers.
By the way- this is how they begin to lose this argument.
The thing is that they don't care about winning the argument. They can seize and hold power without bothering with the argument. That is the only thing they care about.
I pulled this off of Wisconsin Election Commission FAQ just now. I had been curious as to the signature match here..
Has Wisconsin conducted an audit of signatures for absentee voters?
State law does not authorize or require signature comparison as a part of the voting process or during any post-election recount or audit. Instead, for security purposes, Wisconsin requires most absentee voters to show or provide a copy of their photo ID when requesting a ballot.
As a part of the absentee ballot counting process, every absentee certificate envelope is checked to ensure the voter and witness signed the certificate. However, nothing in Wisconsin law establishes a process for comparing those signatures, as there is not necessarily any original signature for them to be compared with. Signature matching is a specialized field, and Wisconsin election officials have received no training or certification in signature matching. For those reasons, conducting an audit of absentee voters’ signatures would be impractical and unwarranted.
So Wisconsin’s absentee/ mail in voting is a complete joke. As long as you sign a ballot return envelope and a witness signs it. All you need is the ballot stock and you can do anything.
Anyone who believes the election was honestly held would not be opposed to investigating the process. The only reason for not looking is to avoid finding out that what you believe is not true.
Simple as that.
Snufflupagus is a Democrat hack masquerading as a journalist. These days, that's true of 99% of those claiming to be "journalists." They are not interested in finding the truth, only in advancing the Democrat party narrative. We know that and don't believe a word that comes out of their mouths or pens.
Blogger Readering said...
A lot of putting hands over ears shouting I can't hear you.
You folks know how to deal with that. So get on with it, show the sentient how it’s done.
Stephanopoulos hasn't been the same since Bill bitch-slapped him around the White House.
Got them (dumbocrats), sounding like six year olds with their hands in the cookie jar doesn't it? Embarrassing for them - laugh riot for me. Nice hit on the "journalists", Rand.
Melts down = does not maintain physical state during application of heat
-----------============
so ABC says we applied heat in this interview (experiment) with Rand Paul
- and proved that he is not HellBoy
I would agree that signature matching itself is a joke. Whether it is ballots or credit card receipts.
Even if I tried to write out a real signature rather than the scratch and scrawl I usually do, it would be hard to match any of my "official" signatures. The overuse of a keyboard and mouse has greatly altered my ability to write legibly. Same with a lot of people.
Ken B said... [hush][hide comment]
Remember, Rand Paul is, or was, on the Trumpkins' shit list.
Ken B moves further in to Chuck territory, insulting rather than making arguments.
Readering, of course, is way past that.
Rand Paul may well be a serious candidate in 2024. I tend to prefer governors but Jimmy Carter and JEB! Bush might have cured me of that illusion.
The other aspect of this that has me chuckling is Amazon (Amazon!) complaining about mail in ballots in its union election.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sir, there are not -- there are not two sides to this story.
That is correct. There is obvious vote fraud in MI, PA, WI, GA, AZ, and NV. There is only one honest side, that's the side pointing out the fraud
Lots of comments about Steph being a Clinton operative.
Many voters were not alive then. The same voters educated by leftist teachers and influenced by left leaning media their entire lives.
Imagine being a kid and living in a world where sports teams change "offensive" names. Where mobs burn neighborhoods and police cars.
Where LGBTQ is celebrated rather than tolerated.
Where being white is equated to being a slaveholder.
Where reparations for centuries old sins is being discussed.
Where men can dominate womens sports.
Where your classmates Dad becomes his 'other Mom', and if you find it strange, you are ostracized.
This ain't the old America is a 'melting pot' anymore.
Michael K: "Ken B moves further in to Chuck territory, insulting rather than making arguments."
Ken B, who is quite reasonable at times, remains in abit of a snit primarily over 2 issues:
1) the democraticals and WHO/FDA/CDC actions over the last week demonstrate conclusively that Ken B and others were "played" and successfully treated as schmucks by the anti-Trump forces over the last year. On this issue emotion over-ruled Ken B's logic which is why he found himself siding with the lunatic Inga over and over again.
Ken sided with the globalist/"Great Reset"-ers and its tough to back away from that now.
2) Trump's successful trade negotiations led to passage of USMCA which blew away the backdoor NAFTA loophole which allowed the ChiComs and the EU to use Canada as a waypoint into the US to avoid tariffs. On top of that, Trump equalized tariffs wuth our trading partners (Fair Trade) which greatly angered Ken for the obvioys reason: It wiped out many of Canada's undeserved and unfair trading advantages.
Ken went ballistic insisting that "Free Trade" requires the US to always be at a massive tariff disadvantage otherwise it cannot be deemed a "free market".
However on many other issues Ken can be perfectly objective and reasonable when he wants to be.
Matt Sablan said...
The next part of voting competence: Why were multiple jurisdictions rushing to delete data after the 2020 election, and why did they require court orders to save the kind of data we can still pull from previous elections? Was there a change in policy that wasn't made known?
This is very simple to me. Election law get distracted alot by civil rights stalking horses. Like voter ID> "Hell no. That discriminates against minorities!" Law suits filed leftist judges rule, Nope cant do voter ID. Lots of things like that.
But purging data so no audit is complete, should be a crime. Punishable by that jurisdictions votes not being included.
A good portion of the lawsuits brought were judges refusing to advance the case, because the relief sought was untenable. Now if there were no evidence, why would that enter into the equation? But if simple competency is the problem, the relief should be part of the election law.
All data must be retained for 4 full years. Govt requires much more from businesses everyday. If an inspector showed up to do an audit, I lost it, or deleted by mistake get you huge fine, and if the data cannot be recreated, you ability to operate may be history
retention of date
Total votes cast within an hour of poll closing
That's just a few simple things that everyone can agree on.
Robert Cook said…"Trump said well before the election that he could not lose except for fraud, …creating in the minds of his supporters a predisposition to assume fraud if Biden won."
Democrats said Trump was destroying USPS in order to supress mail in. Obvious set up for challenging a loss.
"Governor Scott White was elected in Wisconsin only because a Republican messed up reporting precinct vote tallies. With one un-noted precinct tally omission in the Repub vote numbers, the Dems had or created just enough votes to win the office of governor. When the missing precinct was finally reported, good gosh and golly gee, the Republican won, because the Dems had finalized their vote tally and could add no more votes for their candidate."
--
Scott Walker, you mean. Now at the suddenly maligned Young America's Foundation (YAF).
Now, if R's were as ruthless as D's, they would codify and expand this incident as strategy. Remember the D's who formally questioned Dominion machines in '19? Now questioning is verboten and risks lawsuits.
It's possible to cheat therefore the side with the most votes cheated the most is not a valid argument, let alone justification for the crazy stuff Trump led over the past three months. Looking forward to the impeachment trial.
Readering said...
It's possible to cheat therefore the side with the most votes cheated the most is not a valid argument
You are 100% right.
But.....after 4 of the last 6 presidential elections have had accusations of cheating, and each side suspects it, it is worth looking into where the weaknesses are. A big 9/11 - style commission is called for, but with no Jamie Gorelick this time.
Even if I tried to write out a real signature rather than the scratch and scrawl I usually do
It isn't like you can sign a credit card without using a felt tip pen. Ballpoint pens just slip around on the shiny surface leaving a little marks here and there.
This election was not stolen, do you accept that fact?
Typical, leftist shithead. Expressing his opinion as 'fact.'
Ken B said...
Remember, Rand Paul is, or was, on the Trumpkins' shit list.
Ken B ascribing motives to people they never had and mocking up straw men?
Shocking.
You are just a stupid piece of shit.
Readering said...
It's possible to cheat therefore the side with the most votes cheated the most is not a valid argument, let alone justification for the crazy stuff Trump led over the past three months. Looking forward to the impeachment trial.
Where Trump will not be able to call witnesses or present evidence of voter fraud.
Because it will be a fascist show trial for fascist douchebags like Readering.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sir, there are not -- there are not two sides to this story.
Typical fascist perspective.
We'll see.
Michael K said...
Rand Paul may well be a serious candidate in 2024.
Too nice.
Readering said...
I would like to see a lawyer go into Arizona court to establish vote fraud and offer a witness, "I am from Chicago so I know .... let me tell you about Mayor Daly in 1960...."
You scoff out of ignorance and obvious partisanship. Democrats manufacture votes by a variety of means as any Chicago precinct captain will tell you. There are plenty of stories that even Democrat's freely acknowledge.
What is different about this election is that the massive amount of votes that Biden got in Democrat urban areas did not help other Democrat candidates.
"However on many other issues Ken can be perfectly objective and reasonable when he wants to be."
I don't consider willful mischaracterization of other commenters to be "reasonable".
There are 81 court cases to date based on the 2020 election
In 45 cases President Trump was the plaintiff
In 34 cases President Trump is not the plaintiff
In 2 cases President Trump is the defendant
In 72 cases illegal voting is alleged
In ZERO of the 72 cases where illegal voting is alleged has evidence been allowed to be presented
30 cases remain active
Here is a link to the list of cases.
2020 Presidential Election Lawsuits Related to Election Integrity
Even while sitting on two phone books, the Clinton's pet gnome is no match intellectually for (actual doctor) Rand Paul.
320 Bus Drivet: I seem to recall hearing in Madison. The county clerk gave out thousands of ballots without requiring a written application. Which probably is a crime.
Readering said...
We'll see.
We will see.
If Biden had actually defeated Trump in a legitimate election, the DC swamp would not be openly acting like fascists.
Itching to cross-examine Stephie: George seems to know for certain that the fraud was not widespread nor would investigating the fraud overturn the results.
Q: Ok, George, you claim no "widespread" fraud that would "overturn" the election. What is your definition of "widespread?" Does that cover a geographical area? How small an area is too small to call it widespread? Does widespread mean the nationwide number of illegal votes? If so, is it OK if we have 10 million illegal votes as long as they are widely dispersed? What if there is a very low percentage of overall votes that are illegal---but as opposed to being widespread, they are focused? Five thousand illegal votes in one small area can flip an entire state.
And since you claim that everyone "knows" for a fact that there wasn't "enough" fraud to overturn the election, that means everyone "knows" just how much fraud there was.
So, how much fraud WAS there?
How much fraud is acceptable?
Are you making a case that fraud should not be investigated? If fraud SHOULD be investigated, then you are 100% in agreement with Senator Paul.
Drago said...
Ken B, who is quite reasonable at times, remains in abit of a snit primarily over 2 issues:
Ken B cannot discuss any topic without mischaracterization of what those that disagree with him say.
He desperately needs to win arguments but is too stupid to do so without lying.
Stephanopoulos is isomorphic to Big Mike.
Drago said...
Unfortunately by 2022 the democraticals and FakeCons will likely have consolidated their corrupt voting mechanisms, unleashed the DOJ/FBI/NSA/IRS on any groups that are calling for election integrity, and created mechanisms for millions more illegals to vote.
1/24/21, 12:56 PM
I meant that genuine opposition is going to develop well before 2022, and the collapse of a citizen's republic means that non-establishment means of taking power will be popularized by the Jimmy Dores and Michelle Malkins alike. When you have relatively common purpose amongst the working class of all races, and we've established that the paper-shuffling of the white-collar class can be halted for up to a year, why not?
If this be treason, make the most of it.
Instagram is now forcing you to follow the White House account.
You will listen and obey.
Wince: thanks for the link to a chart of election cases with links. Internet world can be amazing.
But I clicked the first link to a PA case listed as active. It was filed last summer and dismissed last fall before the election, so I don't understand how the case is listed as active. Could be missing something. On appeal? Still a valuable resource, for sure.
I will say that Trump's failure, although I'm not sure he could have won this, was in allowing the massive mail in vote campaign. I have not spent enough time in the weeds on this subject to know how possible it would have been to stop this. Pelosi obviously was a big part of the plan and was aided by corrupt Republicans in GA and several other states.
My experience in dealing with state legislators in CA is the source of my pessimism. GOP state legislators tend to be dumb. Democrats see politics as a life's work and are better at it.
The election was stolen. Just look at the Democrats' behavior pre-election, during the election, during the counting and afterwards. They did everything in their power to reduce oversight and verification of the electors. They hid how they were conduction the election at the polling places. They hid how they counted the votes and how the absentee/mail-in votes came into the counting places. They are shrill in their denial that anything was amiss. Like Shakespeare's Prince Hamlet said in Hamlet: "The lady [Democrats] doth protest too much, methinks."
Readering said...
It's possible to cheat therefore the side with the most votes cheated the most is not a valid argument
No.
It is possible to cheat
The side that fights to make it easier to cheat is the side most likely to cheat (Democrats: Removed election security rules)
The side that acts like it is cheating is the side that probably cheated (Democrats: stopped counting election night. Kept poll watchers where they couldn't actually watch)
The election results only swung Biden's way after Democrat run counties that acted like they were cheating, reported numbers to flip the totals after everyone else was in
Therefore, the Democrats cheated
Disagree?
The support doing audits that would show whether or not there was cheating
For example, in WI, MI, PA, GA, AZ & NV:
1: Visit every single voter registered in 202 who voted absentee. Establish that the people exists, is a legal US Citizen and resident of the State where (s)he voted, and that the person actually did vote.
2: Visit every single voter, absentee or in person, who is claimed to have voted in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, and Las Vegas. Establish that the people exists, is a legal US Citizen and resident of the State where (s)he voted, and that the person actually did vote.
3: Go through the signed envelopes that delivered every single absentee ballot in the above cities / counties, plus Maricopa. Federal law requires registrars of voters to keep all election related items for at least 20 months after the election.
A: Validate that they have as many envelopes as they have absentee votes tabulated
B: Validate the ballots. Separate out all envelopes that would have been rejected before the 2020 rules changes.
Do that. If you don't get enough fake voters and questionable ballots to overwhelm Biden's margin in enough States to throw the election to Trump?
Bidne wins
You do?
Re-vote. Only people who get to vote vote in person, showing a current photo ID for the State they're voting in, and sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury, and 10 years in jail, that they did not vote in any other State in 2020.
Widespread fraud was not required to swing the election. Small, targeted fraud would be sufficient. This was a closer election than 2016.
Trump needed to flip only three states to tie 269-269 and win in the House with each state getting one vote.
Georgia (margin 11,800 votes)
Arizona (margin 10,500 votes)
Wisconsin (margin 20,700 votes)
That's a margin of 0.37% out of the nearly 12 million votes counted in those states. It also doesn't require flipping PA or MI where fraud was also suspected but the Biden margins were larger.
Rand Paul is absolutely correct about Secretaries of State changing the law. That’s why I was so upset with the PA and WI cases.
Vote-by-mail has too many moving parts and changes hands too many times to be secure. The ballots can be lost going to the voters or going back to the election’s office. There is no guarantee that the voter actually filled out the ballot even if the signatures match.
Voting should be done primarily by polling place with absentee voting as backup. Picture ID is required for poll voting and for absentee voter request. Absentee voter request must specify a reason such as physical disability or travel. Polls shall be open for 24 hours, from 8:00 p.m. Monday to 8:00 p.m. Tuesday (Election day). Democrat and Republican poll watchers must have full access to the polling place and must sign off that poll results are fair and accurate. Failure to allow full access by poll watches shall invalidate all poll results.
Voting shall be by paper ballot only. Each ballot shall have a unique serial number that cannot be traced to an individual voter. The serial number shall indicate whether the ballot is a poll-ballot or an absentee-ballot. Poll workers shall record that a ballot has been issued, spoiled or excess. Spoiled and excess ballots shall not be counted in any vote total. Spoiled and excess ballots shall have an bold “X” marked on both sides, from corner to corner.
Poll counting machines must be tested prior to poll opening. Software and hardware version number and software checksum must be verified. Calibration ballots must be fed through the ballot counting machines and vote totals verified with the expect results. After calibration checks are completed and verified, the poll counting machine must be sealed with serialized sealing tape so no changes are possible. Serial numbers must be recorded on the poll paperwork.
Total number of poll ballots counted must match the number of poll voters who cast votes within one. Each precinct must make this requirement. The same shall apply to absentee ballots. The polling machine must produce a hardcopy and electronic results sheet for each precinct and manual spot checks of selected races and precincts is required. A grand total for the polling place is required. Election observers shall receive hardcopy and electronic copies of the poll results. Poll results will be put on flash drives for delivery to counting center. Each Party shall tally spreadsheet results and compare them to counting machine grand total results. All three tallies must match.
Counting center shall have a check list of polling places and must check off each polling place as results are returned. Polling place and absentee-voter results shall be entered into a separate spreadsheet as check on counting machine results. Total number of ballots counted must match the number of voters who cast votes within one per precinct. Democrat and Republican counting center watchers must have full access to the counting center and must sign off that counting center results are fair and accurate. Party representatives shall independently tally county center results and compare them to the official results. All three tallies must match.
After completion of counting, counting center shall notify the state counting center the counting is complete. Once all counting centers have finished counting, all results shall be sent to the state counting center. Separate verification of all county results must be made. Total number of ballots counted must match the number of voters who cast votes within one per precinct. Democrat and Republican state counting center watchers must have full access to the state counting center and must sign off that state counting center results are fair and accurate. Party representatives shall independently tally county center results and compare them to the official results. All three tallies must match.
All polling places and counting centers shall video record all operations.
Speaking of the acropolis, one of the jokes a lady used in her first stand up comedy act in some film or other on Prime was that her husband didn't know where the clitoris was. He guessed Greece.
Good for Senator Paul but why do Republicans go on these Sunday morning gabfests? THey know it will only be partisan bickering, insults and rude behavior from the so-called hosts with no point other than to aide the Democratic Party and advance hte progressive/liberal agenda. At least Senator Paul threw the BS flag.
Luker21, “The thing people forget is that if a secretary of state or a state legislature or Congress or the vice president had overturned the reported results to give Trump a win, there would have been riots that would make what happened at the Capitol look like a Sunday picnic, blood in the streets. ”
I think this is true and why federal courts dodged the issues and refused to hear any cases. The George Floyd riots worked.
Seriously, how is what the Dems did in 2020 is that much different than what the Nazi party did to seize power? I’m NOT saying Biden is Hitler but the methods used by both parties are very similar.
Damn it, I just blogged on this, and then, checked over here to see what you're doing.
Curses! Foiled again!
rort [rôrt] NOUN
rorts (plural noun)
AUSTRALIAN / NEW ZEALAND
a fraudulent or dishonest act or practice.
----------------==================
use in sentence - was ABC doing a rort?
How soon can I see description of USA elections as rort perpetrated by political parties on the electorate and perpetuated by Media
"Yes, I can. Obviously the issue is the standard of evidence."
What I had in mind was manipulation of the process you describe. If it is possible to eliminate a precinct's votes then you simply plant your people in precincts that are heavily in favor or your opponent and break the rules.
I see that the Kentucky GOP rejected (by about a 3 to 1 margin) a resolution to urge Moscow Mitch to go balls to the wall for Trump.
I'll explain, once again, how the steal happened. Or at least a very obvious and hard to trace way that I can easily imagine and is supported by what happened.
1) Mail-in ballots get mailed in for a month+ prior to election.
2) Vote counters know who *hasn't* voted.
3) Count votes. Determine margin of fraud required.
4) Like magic, after "stopping counting" at 11:30 pm, 120,000 Biden only votes, largely from a district that had only 49% participation rate, appear.
5) No signature? no problem. Mismatched signature? no problem.
Just feed those magic ballots into the stream.
Where's the fraud? prove it!
David Begley @ 3:14 ... Correctamundo!
I see the Truth Ministry has sent more trolls to the Althouse blog's siege. The Sultan holds forth... http://www.danielgreenfield.org/2021/01/the-dc-occupation-will-continue-until.html
Peter Navarro has written three reports on the election. Those are a good basis to conduct a comprehensive investigation. Form a commission of Republican and Democrat members and examine all the allegations in these three reports. Let the commission decide if each statement is true, probably true, no decision, probably false or false. The commission should also right model election law and procedures that the states could enact.
The electorate has significant doubts about whether are elections are "fair and honest" or just a pile of horsesh*t wait to explode over the country.
mikee at 1:29: what you said about finding last minute votes for Walker in Waukesha County is big, fat fucking lie!
Educate yourself.
320Busdriver at 1:34: the problem this year really had nothing to do with matching signatures on the absentee ballot envelopes. It had to do with an UNELECTED person at the Wisconsin Elections Commission stating that a witness signature and address were not necessary to submit a legal ballot. I can tell you from working at the Madison polls in every other election (for 10+ years) as an absentee ballot processor, we would immediately disqualify a ballot before we even OPENED the envelope if ANY required information was missing.
I see... the notorious Amos n Andy Racist Troll. When the truth is found - to be lies....
bbkingfish said...I see that the Kentucky GOP rejected (by about a 3 to 1 margin) a resolution to urge Moscow Mitch to go balls to the wall for Trump.
--
It would be interesting to see how the Kentucky GOP/Trump voters would vote.
That should be the more important metric.
https://mobile.twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1353430312966115328
My biggest disappointment with Rand Paul here is that he should have brought up Uganda:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/world/africa/uganda-election-results.html?referringSource=articleShare
Uganda’s Leader of 35 Years Is Re-elected Amid Accusations of Vote-Rigging
In the end — after a bitter and bloody campaign marked by a lethal crackdown on the opposition, an internet blackout and accusations of vote tampering and rigging — the president, Yoweri Museveni of Uganda, was declared victor of a sixth, five-year term in office. His rival, Bobi Wine, says the election was unfair, a contention backed by independent international observers.
For the world, Uganda’s election was a vivid demonstration of how autocrats use elections to cement their hold on power. For the country’s younger generation, and throughout Africa, it was a sign of how intractable the old systems are.
“We rejected what they are putting out,” he said in a telephone interview from his home in Kampala, the capital. “We have our evidence, but they are keeping the internet shut down so that we don’t communicate it to the world,” he said, of the internet blackout that began days before the Jan. 14 election. “We won,” he added.
Local and foreign election observers questioned the validity and transparency of this week’s vote after they were prevented from monitoring it. The United States mission in Uganda said 75 percent of its accreditation requests had been denied, pushing it to cancel its observation of the vote.
A report seen by The New York Times, which had input from 2,000 observers with the Africa Elections Watch coalition deployed in 146 districts nationwide, documented late openings in most polling stations, incidents of illegally opened ballot boxes and the arrests of 26 members of civil society groups who were observing the election.
Gee, it's almost like preventing poll watchers is solid proof of vote fraud.
Except, I guess, when it's done by Democrats
Top men
https://mobile.twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1353455854964649984
A question no one appears able to answer is whether the Court challenges have completely gone, or if some were only dismissed insofar as they sought immediate injunctive relief, and will ultimately proceed to trial. Will all those affidavits of exclusion from counting and expert evidence of analysis of voter rolls ever be tested? Is it possible that Harris's occupation of the White House will eventually be shown to be illegitimate?
I think this is true and why federal courts dodged the issues and refused to hear any cases. The George Floyd riots worked.
Seriously, how is what the Dems did in 2020 is that much different than what the Nazi party did to seize power? I’m NOT saying Biden is Hitler but the methods used by both parties are very similar.
Our uneducated kids (under 40) don't know what the The Reichstag Fire was and why it is significant.
Roberts show yellow and we will not forget.
"However on many other issues Ken can be perfectly objective and reasonable when he wants to be."
Really? Like when Trump moved 50 - five zero - troops out of Syria thus putting us on a clear path to World War III? And spewing bullshit names like covidiots and Trumpkins?
Fuck him. He deserves Justin Trudeau.
Proving the point
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/01/24/maxine-waters-trump-will-take-over-legislatures-little-towns-and-cities-if-not-convicted-for-insurrection/
Agree with Bob Boyd -- The election was rigged for our own good. That makes it all OK. /sarc
Re: Proving the point...
"Waters said, “I do believe he sent all of these domestic terrorists to the Capitol to take over the Capitol, and that includes not only the Proud Boys but the Oath Keepers, the QAnon, and white supremacists."
Well- Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, QAnon and white supremacists, and more? So- like about 150 people, then?
Scott Adams
@ScottAdamsSays
·
6h
Watch a journalist irrationally assert -- with lots of attitude -- that an absence of proof is proof of absence -- literally one of the world's most well-known logical fallacies. His audience can't tell the difference. And @RandPaul
dismantles him. Fun.
Quote Tweet
Senator Rand Paul
@RandPaul
· 7h
Partisan Democrats in the media think they can get away with just calling Republicans liars because they don’t agree with us. Watch me stand up to one here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vub26O
Jack Posobiec
Flag of United States
@JackPosobiec
·
4h
Read this report
Amistad Project
The Legitimacy and Effect of Facebook Funding in Federal and State Electoral Processes https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2042
Re Wisconsin possible law breaking from the McIver Institute whatever that is:
"President Donald Trump’s attempts to demonstrate irregularities in and potentially overturn the results of last month’s presidential election have largely been met with derision, but it seems that the laughing will stop in Wisconsin. Trump campaign attorney Jim Troupis has filed a substantive, persuasive, and overwhelmingly statutorily supported petition to the Wisconsin Supreme Court that is impossible to disregard or dismiss as mere conspiracy-mongering.
The lawsuit relies not on allegations of ballot fraud or chicanery involving voting machines, but rather clear and unambiguous evidence that both the Wisconsin Elections Commission and elections officials in Dane and Milwaukee County violated state law and thus presided over an unlawful election.
In the 14 days of in-person absentee voting in Wisconsin, the suit alleges, both Milwaukee County Clerk George Christenson and Dane County Clerk Scott McDonnell allowed voters to cast ballots without first completing an absentee ballot request form.
Wisconsin Statute § 6.86(1)(ar) expressly provides that a “municipal clerk shall not issue an absentee ballot unless the clerk receives a written application therefor from a qualified elector of the municipality.” 70 of Wisconsin’s 72 county clerks apparently had no problem following this law, but both McDonnell and Christenson disregarded it altogether and allowed in-person absentee voters to cast a ballot without first filling out a ballot application.
“Instead, in both Dane and Milwaukee Counties,” the Trump campaign alleges, “the Canvassing Boards found that the Clerk’s receipt of form EL-122 (the ‘Envelope’ in which the absentee ballot is placed by the elector after it has already been received by the elector and after it has been completed) was sufficient to satisfy the statutory written application requirement.”
It most certainly is not. Nonetheless, 108,947 ballots were cast in Milwaukee County and 61,193 were cast in Dane County without a valid ballot request form and are thus invalid. Wisconsin Statute § 6.84(2) explicitly holds that statutes governing ballot applications “shall be construed as mandatory” and that “ballots cast in contravention of the procedures specified in those provisions may not be counted.”
"You would think that it would be in everyone’s interest to be sure that election rules and practices conform to the US Constitution and to the election laws in effect at the beginning of the election. [emphasis added]"
Only that terminally naive would think that. There are plenty of categories of people for whom their interest, and the overall long-term interest of the US citizenry at large, do not necessarily coincide. And a subset of those folks will prove to be very willing to lie, or worse, to see that their interests prevail, instead of ours.
Ryan Fournier
@RyanAFournier
3h
Romney just said that Trump's Impeachment Trial is important for "unity."
This man has been wrong his entire life.
Alternative headline from Townhall:
WATCH: Sen. Rand Paul Shreds George Stephanopoulos for Being a Liberal Hack
"Ken B said...
"The title is all most people pay attention to.
"This is a perfect example of what’s wrong with the culture now. Asking about evidence is presented as a moral failing, and logic is called a melt-down."
Came here to say this. But Ken B. said it three hours earlier and better.
"Blogger I'm Full of Soup said...
"The lawsuit relies not on allegations of ballot fraud or chicanery involving voting machines, but rather clear and unambiguous evidence that both the Wisconsin Elections Commission and elections officials in Dane and Milwaukee County violated state law and thus presided over an unlawful election."
This! This is what must be done. Lawsuits must be brought in state court, asserting violations of state law. They must *not* ask that the election be overturned, because it's too late for that (and has been for a long time); they must ask for *injunctions* prohibiting similar violations in the future.
The fact that the GOP bigwigs don't seem to be pursuing this strategy is making me lose the little confidence in them that I have left.
"they must ask for *injunctions* prohibiting similar violations in the future."
A law making it illegal to break the law?
Even assuming Rand's point was *just* to clean up the system for 2022, they won't even let him get there rhetorically; they just stop him at lies! lies!
Very frustrating. And very totalitarian.
"A law making it illegal to break the law?"
Double-secret probation- we really mean it this time. Don't make us turn the car around.
Matt Sablan said...
“I don't think we can make any progress on election fraud until election COMPETENCE is fixed.... We want *competence* in our elections.”
Was it incompetence or was it purposeful error?
Looking at the transcript I'd say that it's Little Georgie Snuffleupagus who got all wee wee'd up here.
paminwi said...
320Busdriver at 1:34:
Yes, I was just surprised that WI has no match at all as I believe states like GA and NV do. Check the WEC website FAQ to see their explanation for curing absentee ballots, specifically missing witness addresses. They supposedly (WEC) put guidance out in 2016 that it was permissible for officials to cure or add missing address info to the envelope.
The issue is that, as all the other issues in all the crucial states, these decisions were not codified by legislatures and are therefore invalid, illegal. Until the citizens in WI get serious and demand reforms from the legislature we will continue to be susceptible to massive amounts of fraud and questionable election irregularities and outcomes. Pelosi is trying to establish CA style voting laws nationwide in her Covid relief bill and if successful we will never have free and fair elections here in the USA..
DEMOCRATS WANT TO KEEP FRAUD EASY AND UNTRACEABLE.
From Wis. Election Commission
Did Wisconsin clerks issue 70,000 absentee ballots to voters without an application?
Absolutely not. In 2010, many Wisconsin clerks started using a new combined application/certificate for absentee ballots cast in their offices. They did this to reduce paperwork in response to more and more voters casting absentee ballots in the clerk’s office.
Prior to 2010, people voting absentee in the clerk’s office had to fill out a paper form requesting a ballot, then had to fill out the certificate on the envelope. This created extra paperwork and was time consuming. Municipal clerks asked for help, so the Government Accountability Board did a statewide study of the issue and produced a report on early voting: https://elections.wi.gov/publications/reports/early-voting. One of the recommendations that came out of the report was simplifying the in-person absentee voting process by combining the application and certificate. Board staff then worked with local election officials to implement changes that would streamline the paperwork required during in-person absentee voting.
The solution was to add several components to the existing certificate resulting in a combination Absentee Ballot Application/Absentee Ballot Certificate. The title of the certificate was changed to indicate that it also serves as an application for in-person absentee voters. A line was added (“I further certify that I requested this ballot.”) to make the document an application. A person voting in-person simply completes the voter information and sign the certification. The elector votes the ballot, seals the ballot in the envelope, and the municipal clerk or clerk staff signs as witness and provides his or her address. All in-person absentee voters are also required to provide their photo ID before receiving a ballot.
It is false to claim that there are no applications on file for these absentee ballots.
Thoughts on this??
It is false to claim that there are no applications on file for these absentee ballots.
Does This mean that these security envelopes that contained the absentee ballots are “on file”.
Where are they on file??
I have intelligent friends who think I am a weirdo extremist, because I discount what the MSM says. Of course, I think they're too ready to accept what they want to hear.
Maybe I'd be mo better were the tables turned.
Wisconsin Statute § 6.86(1)(ar) expressly provides that a “municipal clerk shall not issue an absentee ballot unless the clerk receives a written application therefor from a qualified elector of the municipality.”
I did in-person absentee voting in a Wisconsin town and filled out the application. It was a fairly streamlined procedure. You filled in a form at the town hall clerk's counter, showed your driver's license, got your license checked with registered voters list, turned to the polling people who were there just to the right, got a ballot and went the machine, voted, put the ballot in the envelope and gave it to the polling clerk. Not as quick as regular voting but the line wasn't long. I've always wondered if they circumvented the precautions in Wisconsin how they did it. You see, you had to show a government photo ID showing you lived in the precinct you were voting in and you had to be a registered voter in that same precinct. And when those two were checked, the polling clerks were just a few feet away to give you your ballot. But if the check was not made 100,000 times? and Biden won by 20,000?
I wish Sen Paul had asked GS how much fraud is acceptable in our elections and how he knows it wasn't exceeded this past year. All that's happening is they're encouraging Republicans to cheat (or at least to a great extent if you believe they already are).
Wisconsin Statute § 6.86(1)(ar) expressly provides that a “municipal clerk shall not issue an absentee ballot unless the clerk receives a written application therefor from a qualified elector of the municipality.”
I did in-person absentee voting in a Wisconsin town and filled out the application. It was a fairly streamlined procedure, as I remember it but tight against fraud. You filled in a form at the town hall clerk's counter, showed your driver's license, got your license checked with registered voters list, turned to the polling people who were there just to the right, got a ballot and went the machine, voted, put the ballot in the envelope and gave it to the polling clerk. Not as quick as regular voting but the line wasn't long. I've always wondered if they circumvented the precautions in Wisconsin how they did it. You see, you had to show a government photo ID showing you lived in the precinct you were voting in and you had to be a registered voter in that same precinct. And when those two were checked, the polling clerks were just a few feet away to give you your ballot. But if the check was not made 100,000 times? and Biden won by 20,000?
"The Department of Justice led by William Barr said there's no widespread evidence of fraud."
The evidence was specific and involved targeted locations like Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia and Atlanta.
So it is correct the fraud was not widespread. The fraud was in fact localized and carefully targeted in key precincts in battle ground states.
iowan2 @ 1:59pm,
Add to those:
n.) Absolute secrecy of precinct and aggregate totals until they are all submitted, including not even transmitting of numbers back down the line to local level election officials. It should be completely impossible to guess how many more votes need to be manufactured, until it's too late.
One method to accomplish this might be to all results submitted under seal, not to be opened until all precinct packets are received. Let us brainstorm some other is, if you like.
It's all lies!
from the party and the media who lie... as much as they want.
Althouse doesn't agree with obvious propaganda from the MSM? She will need to be re-educated.
"n.) Absolute secrecy of precinct and aggregate totals until they are all submitted, including not even transmitting of numbers back down the line to local level election officials. It should be completely impossible to guess how many more votes need to be manufactured, until it's too late."
Agreed. As long as there's a way to identify how many votes are needed to win, there will be an incentive to provide them.
The guy who ran the Clinton War Room is by definition a putrid liar.
He shows that here.
Hiding under the guise of being a "journalist" instead of the hard partisan we all know he is, his life revolves around setting and reinforcing false narratives.
The laws were changed in some states illegally. Machines were configured to ignore signature verification and unprecedented numbers of Ballots were steered to adjudication without supervision.
Behaviors in these key swing states, in general but especially in the Urban areas of these key Swing States, were at odds with nationwide trends.
There is more than enough serious troubling question about more than enough votes to swing the election.
But the key issue is that 80 percent of 75 million believe this was a sham election and that Biden is illegitimate. Biden should have addressed the confidence issue. And he declined to do that. And it is going to bite him in the ass.
74 million. Lies about everything.
Just curious: why is the focus on alleged fraud only on exactly those states that Donald would have needed overturn the result in order to win? No interest in North Carolina fraud? Florida? Texas?
The selective focus makes it hard for any objective observer to take seriously. It's clearly a results-driven interest, not on the merits.
"n.) Absolute secrecy of precinct and aggregate totals until they are all submitted, including not even transmitting of numbers back down the line to local level election officials. It should be completely impossible to guess how many more votes need to be manufactured, until it's too late."
I've always been appalled that this isn't the procedure. It's indefensible.
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