The ongoing Republican whisper campaign, according to more than a dozen sources who spoke to CNN, is based on a shared belief that a successful conviction is critical for the future of the Republican party. Multiple sources describe this moment as a reckoning for the party...."Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," said a former senior Republican official. "Conviction could do that."
It could. But it could also do something else. I'm trying to picture what Trump's defense will look like and how people will react to it. "Mitch said to me he wants Trump gone," but Trump is already gone. How "gone" do you need to render him? A big show of crushing someone beyond any real need can make onlookers side with him.
ADDED QUESTIONS:
1. Is "a successful conviction... critical for the future of the Republican party"? If the answer isn't "yes," then why would there be a "shared belief that a successful conviction is critical for the future of the Republican party"? Are you dubious that this "shared belief" exists?
2. How many of these "dozen sources" are Republicans? How many are members of Congress? At least one — unless CNN is wrong — is a "Republican member of Congress," but I'll bet he's not a Senator, or CNN would have said so. It seems likely that not one of the sources is a Republican Senator.
3. A successful conviction might be "critical for the future of the Republican party," but is an unsuccessful effort to seek a conviction more useful to the Republican party than avoiding the trial on a procedural ground?
4. What do you mean by "Republican party"? These people who are saying "a successful conviction is critical for the future of the Republican party" — if they exist — aren't they elite insiders talking about preserving their hold on a party that chose Trump rather than one of them? How will the trial reach out to Trump supporters as opposed to alienating them?
Posts
251 comments:
1 – 200 of 251 Newer› Newest»If it's CNN, it's likely to be a lie.
Could we have names of these sources, please? Rand Paul has been warning that a conviction will deflate the party by a third....
That's fine. My Wife and I have just changed our party affiliation to Unaffiliated. Mitch and his crew have left us, we did not leave the Republican disaster. Some of my neighbors have done the same. They want us to leave so they get what they wanted. A Rump Party.
Also, what GOP members of Congress say to CNN and what they say to another source might be different. Not to mention that Mitch McConnell might be saying different things to different people. Why on earth would we expect that any Washington creature is not playing a triple or quadruple game? They didn't get elected by being fully candid.
Impeaching Trump will destroy any eGOP that votes for it.
They have a glass jaw.
And Trump punches back.
The play is to get Republican senators to vote to convict. Then they lose donations and are primaried. Schemer expects to gain a few Senate seats that way.
The big question is : How Dumb are the Republican senators?
The GOPe never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Reagan choosing Bush for VP was the last time.
They still seem to believe that the old GOP exists from an electorate standpoint. It doesn't. There's no going back. Impeaching Trump will only harden the resistance against them. It's strange that they don't see what is obvious.
If it's CNN, it's likely to be a lie.
+1.
Still don't get that Trump is the symptom, not the disease. It ain't that hard to understand. And what comes after Trump will be worse. Much worse.
It's like the due process, the impeachment charge and the facts are irrelevant.
"Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," said a former senior Republican official. "Conviction could do that."
That's how stupid Republicans are...they just don't get it.
It will make him stronger.
He didn't create a cult of personality. People finally heard what they've been wanting to hear for years now.
My dog is smarter than these people.
Chuckles the Schemer said DJT "incited an erection..." at the Capitol. He's getting wet dreams hoping to convict private citizen DJT. I'd like to see DJT sue Chuckles the Schemer for civil rights violations. That would be lit.
My gut feeling is McConnell is lobbying gop senators to convict Trump.
McConnell is in an echo chamber.
McConnell worked with Boehner and the Democrats to destroy the tea party.
And McConnell believes that with Trump censored, the uniparty can control the narrative and destroy Trump.
My guess is Trump is deliberately keeping quiet playing rope a dope.
"How Dumb are the Republican senators?"
Dumb enough to misread every clear indication that neither the Senate nor the Republican Party garner the slightest respect or regard from thinking people; nor will this be fixed in our lifetimes, if ever.
One of the things I liked about Trump was that he showed what a bunch of hacks, rubes, and dimwits the Republican leaders really are. (With a few exceptions like Paul, on a few issues.)
Narr
Ditch the Electoral College AND the Senate!
Should have pardoned Snowden and Assange. We all know Mitch couldn't be trusted, if that story is true.
DJT is like Lincoln's Grant: "He fights." That's what the GOPe doesn't get. We don't want Democrat Lite, we want a GOP that fights for conservative values, not bleached-out left-wing policies.
How do you incite that which was already planned?
fake but accurate,
Sorry but can someone more learned than I address the question of can there even be an impeachment trial now as former President Trump is actually NOT President any longer? Isn't the rule that only current Presidents can be impeached? Isn't he now a citizen? You can't impeach a citizen, right?
Thank you for indulging someone ignorant in the ways of politics.
Sounds like the Lincoln project.
The old gaurd Republicans (like a certain LLR) believe that if Trump is fully discredited they will be able to go back to business as usual. They took the wrong lesson from the demise of the TEA party. If Trump is convicted the Republican party is dead forever.
1. No. Why would such a "shared belief" exist? Because we're not talking about actual voters, we're talking about house and senate critters. Most of them live deeply ensconced in the DC bubbleworld with little connection to their actual constituents.
2. Who can say? This is CNN. It could be all or mostly BS. If CNN reported that water was, in fact, wet I would have to recheck personally to be sure.
3. I don't believe a successful conviction is "necessary for the future of the GOP". Quite the opposite. An unsuccessful one that no (R)s voted for would be good.
4. They're talking about the elected representatives obviously, not the voters. They dislike the voters. And obviously a successful convition won't each out to Trump supporters, it will anger them and further drive them away from whatever (R)s vote to convict.
God forbid that they should address the issues that produced Trump in the first place.
They may have already lost me, a straight republican voter and donator since 1976. If McConnell is still leader they have, no matter the destruction it causes. If the GOP and the country have to be destroyed by the democrat party so be it.
He and the rest of the GOPe are unacceptable. It is too bad that some good republicans will left in the cold, but if McConnell is there, too bad. I can only hope we start a third party because their is too much rot in this one.
How "gone" do you need to render him?
When assassination wasn't enough, Romans dug up the body and burned it.
Every single one will get primaried.
More than one will lose that primary.
Keep going Turtle and you'll be there too.
I actually am a Life Long Democrat. I registered that way when I was first able to vote--more than 55 years ago. I still am a registered Democrat out here in the Peoples Republic of California.
But my voting patterns changed over the years--I mostly split the ticket between the two parties over maybe the central 35 years of that time--but now mostly vote Republican. Not that it does any good here in bluest Southern California.
But after the fiasco of the election last fall--and the truly shameful behavior of both parties, I'm going to change my registration to Independent. I want nothing to do with either party.
"Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," said a former senior Republican official. "Conviction could do that."
Amazing misreading of, well, everything.
If a Rep actually said it.
They can only harm themselves, not Trump. Our hostess recognized that Trump was talking about the statue issue and not neo-Nazis at Charlottesville, and this time, all he said was the protesters aren't going to stand for an election to be stolen. That's an accurate description of people's state of mind, not incitement. But although Anne initially said Biden was unacceptable based on his Charlottesville lie, she now finds him acceptable, and allows an unfounded slander of Trump to proceed.
could it be that just as Democratics had to befool Bernie Bros to vote for Biden, Republicans have figured out a way to get Trumpsters to vote next putative /Hitler/
if not whither goest Republican party
I'm surprised that professor emerita Ann Althouse hasn't weighed in on the jurisdictional issue.
The text of the Constitution provides that upon conviction the President shall be removed from office.
It doesn't take Zeno to know that impeachment of Trump is now a meaningless act because he can't be removed from office. He's already left!
Motion to Dismiss granted. Imagine John Roberts doing that! He won't. He's a coward.
Color me dubious. Representatives can sometimes be induced to fall on their swords for something The Party really really wants (see Obamacare, for instance). They often have real lives to go back to and they may be idealistic. Senators are rarely that self sacrificing. A vote for conviction would doom all but a couple of Rep senators. They don't even have to approve of Trump or his actions, they can take a stand on the unconstitutionality of impeaching a private citizen. So I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe they are that deluded.
If Trump was a “clear and present danger” to the Republic, so much so that Pelosi needed the nuclear keys taken away by the joint chiefs and Trump impeached, why did she sit on the papers until today? Her tardiness is reason enough to dismiss the effort out of hand. If it was urgent enough to impeach it was too urgent to wait. Obviously Congress critters are too idiotic to even pretend to be consistent. Loyal Republicans will pound this point if they are not idiots also.
AZ Bob said...
How "gone" do you need to render him?
When assassination wasn't enough, Romans dug up the body and burned it.
------======
when Trump dies will there be a pyre somewhere [hopefully The Mall] for symbolism and Melania doing Sati [without fashion coveragegate ]
Media does push stories calculated to sow discord and division in the Republican Party.
CNN is not a trustworthy source for anything.
If the word 'Trump' is in the headline, you must assume that everything that follows is a lie or a radical distortion. Makes it much simpler to follow public affairs.
Unnamed sources. The leftie equivalent of ohpleaseohpleaseohplease.
Mitch is walking through the raindrops. Conviction isn't going to happen. Oh, wait. Maybe he'll get to keep filibuster for a conviction. Naw. No one wants to piss off what's left of you people because you have all the guns and ammo.
Isn't it a due process or equal protection violation for the wounded party (the congress people in the Capital) to have prosecution, judge and jury roles in seeking retribution? This whole thing seems unconstitutional to me. Perhaps because impeachment is political this is ok? I don't know...
CNN? Give me an F-ing break.
In 2016 the GOP base threw the GOP establishment to the curb. Pissed about being lied to about Iraq WMDs by the Bush administration. The constant capitulation. Paul Ryan and all his ilk were just good at presentations and charts. Delivered NOTHING.
It’s now the TRUMP Base. I think McConnell is going to be very surprised in 2022 at how many Trump voters stay home having learned voting is a waste of time when there is no remedy for fraud, and the GOP is in on it.
The current GOP, outside of Trump, peace be upon him, is too soft. Bunch of spinless cucks. Their cowardice in the face of all of the widely known Democrat cheating and proven election fraud, is unforgivable. Mike Pence will replace Ricky Santorum, as the token Republican on MSNBC but will not have a future within the new MAGAts ate our minds and souls, GOP. I humbly await the Kraken from my well stocked, back yard bunker.
The biggest, and hardest to learn, lesson from the ‘16 primary was to never wrestle a pig in mud. You just get dirty, and the pig enjoys it. Give Trump a fight, and he’ll fight it like hell. That’s his biggest skill, his shining moment, and you’ll give him the worlds biggest stage.
The best weapon against him is to ignore him.
The Impeachment of a President out of office is a Bill of Attainder. No? The is specifically forbidden in the body of the Constitution.
Francisco D said...
The play is to get Republican senators to vote to convict. Then they lose donations and are primaried. Schemer expects to gain a few Senate seats that way.
The big question is : How Dumb are the Republican senators?
-------------===========
could be the pockets that be have pockets deep enough for discounted net value of future payments?
As Emeritus Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz has pointed out, a conviction would be a Bill of Attainder, specifically forbidden by the Constitution. Presumably those committing such a violation would themselves be subject to impeachment.
"Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," BOASTED a former senior Republican official. "Conviction could do that,’ THE OFFICIAL WORRIEDLY ADDED.
It’s all in the context.
That is my vote
Unless the shoat
Is teh cherubic Fat boy Stelter
If anyone in leadership or more than the three or four usual suspects vote to legitimize this legal farce and convict, then the Republican Party is dead.
And not because of any great personal love for Trump.
This has little to do with Trump at this point. In fact, it has had little to do with Trump personally all along.
Lyssa said...
The best weapon against him is to ignore him.
Except Trump drives them bat-shit crazy and they can't! :D
2 days ago I was told Mitch forced Trump to abandon an Assange pardon in exchange for not convicting him.
Never in my wildest nightmares did I think we would have a second Cadaver Synod. But the Democrats might just be stupid enough.
If the spineless, gutless, ball-less Republican worms in the Senate do not FIGHT, then the party will be next to dead.
The only vote that the GOP will get if they do not fight is the GFY and ESAD vote.
Got a call from a fundraiser the other day looking for support from republicans. I told her that we were independents for Trump and that Republicans were fucking up. At our age the attitude is "and the horse you rode in on". I think Rand is off by an order of magnitude. My friends are with me on this.
What Mark said@ 2:47
Personally, I stopped calling myself "Republican" way back in 1995, when they caved on term limits and said that they "only promised a vote on it, they didn't promise to pass it."
In the end, they won't do it. The R senators know that if they help to convict Trump they will loose badly over the next 2 election cycles, and for what exactly? Revenge? Pride? We're better than him? Idiots all.
Liz Cheney is reaping the whirlwind from WY GOP and half the US Republican reps for her vote for impeachment, if that's a useful indicator...
Todd - No, yes, yes, right.
Same as you can't try a dead man.
Impeachment is a political act. Once someone is out of office, they are "politically dead." The impeachment proceedings are abated.
Trump impeachment 1 - Trump is impeached for trying to get rid of a Democratic election opponent
Trump impeachment 2-
Trump is impeached to get rid of him as a presidential election opponent
Howard: "Mitch is walking through the raindrops. Conviction isn't going to happen. Oh, wait. Maybe he'll get to keep filibuster for a conviction. Naw. No one wants to piss off what's left of you people because you have all the guns and ammo."
In the future you should attempt to identify a coherent point you would like to make and then, if you aren't already thoroughly exhausted, string some related and logically connected sentences together that lead a reader to your conclusion.
Good luck and good hunting!
If the republicans even allow a trial in the senate, they can kiss the party adios. Let them go the way of the whig party and good riddance. The current incarnation of the gop is a totallly spineless group that hates America and its founding, and is fine with the destruction as long as they get to stand in the corner and whine about it, but do get to dip their piggy snouts in the fed dollar trough.
The party is finished if they do it. Right on the ol' (s)crap heap of history.
It is up to the people to decide if Trump is "disqualified" to run again, not the oligarchy.
Isn't it true that this conviction, should they secure it, is a political one not a sort of legal conviction as you would get for say murder or robbery or other infraction? Impeachment is a political act and process. The facts and the defense don't matter other than from a propagandistic and political sense. If all this reported whispering is true Trump has already been convicted; all that's left is the show trial.
1. It’s CNN and unnamed sources so ... BS
2. Trump is already gone. This is political BS and a waste of time.
3. Why the F would any of these so-called “elites” get to make such a decision ? If voters want to elect him again, that’s up to them.
4. We need a periodic purge of EVERYONE from Congress. Fire them all, none can run again for 10 years, put in a whole new slate. Couldn’t possibly be any worse than these morons.
It's not just Trump they want to get rid of. It's us.
Drago giving his straight and level best backseat Karen advise. Thanks, Mom!
CNN report using anonymous sources. Conclusion: Fake news.
The GOP still doesn't get it.
As Trump famously said: They're not after me, they're after you. I'm just in the way.
And how long has it been since CNN produced anything but horse manure?
The current incarnation of the gop is a totallly spineless group that hates America and its founding, and is fine with the destruction as long as they get to stand in the corner and whine about it, but do get to dip their piggy snouts in the fed dollar trough.
I'm close to the end of the Novak book and he has just written about Gingrich and his downfall. It's the old story, Republican pols want to get rich just like Democrat pols. Once the 1994 election was over, Gingrich lost interest in governing. That Congress did nothing, which was an improvement on Clinton, at least.
Tcrosse: Never go full martyr. It smacks of cultism. It's not about you personally, it's the homogenized and pasteurized Trumper backwards ideas we want to eliminate to enhance progressive human evolution.
If they have the trial, convict and bar him from running for office, the first thing Trump should do is run for office.
If it really is a Republican member of Congress, then it is probably Liz Cheney, who at this point has nothing else to lose with respect to the Party.
I understand the first question; if conviction is necessary, then the Republican Party will have lots of problems bigger than Trump, who has 92% support within the Party. So it seems like it is just media hope for a Republican civil war inside itself. [I have to include that so the progressives don't think it is incite to insurrection]
If Schumer goes on with this charade of a trial, I don't see unity occurring anytime soon.
Banning Trump from office is a sanction on voters, not on Trump. Therefore it's a provision meant for appointive office, not elected office.
Mockturtle: don't flatter yourself. Everybody "gets it". Nobody wants to give in to "it", including the GOP.
Impeachment is a political act and process.
-----------============
if these words have any meaning lawyerly wrangling is entirely beside the point.
do we have in this instance >>>> sentence first and no trial=defense afterward
Q: Was there any open discussion before Roman Senators stabbed Caesar?
in USA : we have sort of debate and no stabbing : could be considered an improvement.
better production value for President Joe will be - if the Senators did this behind the stands of football stadium
Per the Constitution, the Senate convicts by 2/3 of the Senators present. So, abstentions matter, too.
No one wants to piss off what's left of you people because you have all the guns and ammo.
You mean the 74 million voters and the 2300 million guns? Yeah, that makes sense. I might add that Pelosi added 25,000 Trump voters this week with her capitol antics kicking the Guard out.
If they really are going through with impeachment they might be needing to keep the National Guard in DC awhile longer.
I am Laslo.
CNN and "sources?" Come on, man!
it's the homogenized and pasteurized Trumper backwards ideas we want to eliminate to enhance progressive human evolution.
Once again, Howard has his superiority complex cranked up to 12. You just make a fool of yourself, Howard. Well, maybe late for that. You did that years ago.
Howard: "Drago giving his straight and level best backseat Karen advise. Thanks, Mom!"
So, even your mom noticed your incoherence.
I can't say I'm surprised.
Still, she probably loved you anyway.
These people who are saying "a successful conviction is critical for the future of the Republican party" — if they exist — aren't they elite insiders talking about preserving their hold on a party that chose Trump rather than one of them?
Bingo. Conviction simply confirms the belief that the GOP Establishment doesn't care about the world outside the Beltway.
Ohhh they're gonna miss his coattails when he's gone. All up and down the ballot.
I hope they're ready for not losing again.
This was my response to Rep McCarthy asking for money this morning:
Mr McCarthy: You may be sincere in your desire to shovel sand against the Democratic tide, however, the Republicans, best exemplified by supposed "Leader" MeConnell, do not deserve support as they have failed time after time to support Trump and his policies. The disdain expressed by RINO's in the house and Senate for him while he was in office and now that he has left is telling. There is no doubt that the UniParty is alive and well. We need a new party. It is ironic that Trump, who made his name on TV with his trademark "you're fired!" was undone by personnel selection and retention, Sessions being the most obvious example. Regardless, his policies were sound and set us on the right path - now to be undone in one fell (felonious) swoop by Biden and his handlers. You will get no money from me - money is not the problem. The problem is leadership and personnel selection. Why didn't the Republican National Committee use its dollars to staff all of the voting locations with competent observers such as attorneys? The election was stolen. What are the Republicans doing about it? Nothing.
I want Mitch gone. I never get what I want. Why should he?
The GOP truly is the 'stupid party.' Do they really think they would have won all those down-ballot races in Nov w/o Trump? Does Mitch really think all those people came out because they love him? Or Liz Cheney? Lol
I think the first time around was a bit bogus, but I would have been OK if he was impeached. Get him out of the way before he causes more problems. The people have their say, the Congress has their override, in a sense.
Then the people can respond to that at the ballot box.
But at this point, it's a trap and a political albatross. If they convict, the response is, why didn't you have a spine when he was president. If they don't, the response is, you are still prp Trumpers.
We get the message Mitch. Every piece of direct mail sent to me from Republicans will be returned with the message “Write me back when Mitch and Liz are gone."
Everybody is worried about their jobs due to the massive influx of cheap labor should learn to code. Oh, BTW, there will also be a massive influx of cheap coders whose work contracts resemble those of indentured servants.
Mom always liked you best, Drago
From the early 1830s well into the mid-1850s, the Whigs joined the Democrats as one of the nation’s two major parties. As late as the winter of 1853, a Whig president, Millard Fillmore of New York, occupied the White House. But two years later, by the fall of 1855, the Whig party was effectively extinct.. - Smithsonian Magazine
Mitch sees the Republican Party more as a cult of the big donors kind of deal than a party aimed at masses of voters. I think I am going to change my registration to Democrat and send Tulsi some money.
I effed up.
They're gonna lose without Trump
Insane to try to impeach somebody who's not in office. The whole point of impeachment is to remove somebody from office. This specifically looks like an attempt to subvert the people's right to vote.
jeremyabrams said...
But although Anne initially said Biden was unacceptable based on his Charlottesville lie, she now finds him acceptable, and allows an unfounded slander of Trump to proceed.
******************
Is she being knowingly inconsistent, or could it be that our blogmistress is in the very early stages of what Biden has advanced case of?
God forbid.
Fox News suffered a 40% drop in viewership after using their election night coverage to suppress Republican votes, I think that Howard should worry about his Schadenboner lasting for more than four years as the Republican Party drops by 40%.
I just bought a hot air popcorn machine, my plan is to enjoy the decline.
For excitement, Biden is already whipping up a new war. This time we are going to get Assad out of there! Biden is already sending in moar troops! Democrats should be so pleased.
The Republicans want all Trump voters gone. They need to think real hard and look back at the years prior to Trump. From Obama to George W., on down to the Tea Party movement and all the between year elections. The gains Republicans made, from taking back the House for the first time in 40 years. The Republican gains were due to a small, but constantly growing segment of the Republican Party that was becoming more blue collar, more working class, more 'state' university than Ivy League, more patriot than idealist, more 'let's clean this place up' than Establishment.
The Tea Party was the first wave of it. Many people knew this was something different. It was larger, more organic. The Establishment Republicans made gains because of the Tea Party, and made efforts to appease them, but never actually liked them, nor actually produced anything at all that the Tea Party wanted done. They gave lip service to Tea Party ideas while laughing about it over cocktails with media members and Democrats. The media and Democrats painted the Tea Party as racists, Nazis, homophobes, etc. The usual bullshit. And the Tea Party as a party faded away, but the people did not. People don't fade away.
They are always still there. And as they watched more BS coming out of Washington and the media and their schools- year after year- they grew in numbers. And along came Trump. Though I don't think it was his first goal, he picked up their flag and went forward. He worked because he was not of the Establishment political class. He was crass and undisciplined, but he stood up for them and did more in 4 years than any Republicans had done since Reagan.
To view this as 'getting rid of Trump' by impeaching him after he's out of office displays such a lack of self-awareness, a lack of vision, a lack of understanding of their own people, their own citizenry that one has to come to the conclusion that- Democrat or Republican, it does not matter. With a handful of exceptions, they all need to go. Starting with Mitch, Chuck, and Nancy. We gave the Republicans power they had not seen in decades and their answer to us has been f*** off.
I'm astounded at the obtuseness of our 'experts' in the media, press, academia, and our political class. That they still don't get why Trump got elected and why, in two years there will be a tidal wave of change coming to DC. Obtuse is too kind a word for this level of single minded fogginess.
"Getting rid of Trump" is just vindictiveness on display. Arrogance, vindictiveness, and abuse of power. But Trump or no- as I said above people don't fade away. We're still here. And we will be writing the end to this play. Do not doubt me on this.
"This specifically looks like an attempt to subvert the people's right to vote.”
I think that although the constitution prohibits bills of attainder, it doesn’t actually mean that, because the Roberts court will decide that bills of attainder are a political question not to be decided by the courts.
Trump fights the opposition. McConnell kneels before them. Screw Mitch.
I'm surprised no one has commented on the delicightful typo in Narayanan's 1:46 comment: "could be the pockets that be have pockets deep enough for discounted net value of future payments?" (emphasis added).
I assume "the pockets that be" is what palaeographers call 'error by anticipation': writing "pockets" for "powers" because there's another "pockets" coming up. But The Powers That Be in Washington are in fact The Pockets That Be. Even if they are primarily motivated by the will to power and their delight in making others submit to their every whim, they all make sure to get their pockets stuffed with money along the way.
The anti-Trump GOPers have put out their talking points. CNN dutifully picks it up and runs with it. While there are many GOPers who want Trump out of the party forever and put moral blame on him for the Capitol riot, it would fracture the party if they convict.
What they ought to do is to make a deal with Trump. Don't run again and we'll drop the whole thing. Trump likes deals, right? He could play kingmaker in the next primary cycle.
The problem with convicting is that Trump can still hang around and still has some power. He would sue based on the argument you can't impeach a private citizen (though I think the Court would wrongly punt the question).
If he can't run, he could start a 3rd party that will take more from the GOP than the Dems. If you think you get rid of Trump by convicting him, you're sorely mistaken. He can be an asset in the right places, but as a candidate he's toast. Honestly, I don't think he'll run again regardless.
I can guarantee Karloff in NY has lost his 2022 reelection bid. I’m waiting to see who’s to primary him. If the party chairs don’t themselves refuse to put him on the ballot as a Republican.
A conviction of Trump in the senate? After he’s left office? Provided his health holds up makes him a sure thing in 2024, especially with $10.00 a gallon gasoline.
Stupid stupid automiscorrect!
Katko in NY!
tim in vermont said...
For excitement, Biden is already whipping up a new war. This time we are going to get Assad out of there! Biden is already sending in moar troops! Democrats should be so pleased.
He picked Syria? Do you mind sourcing that?
I mean the neocon puppet masters picked Syria?
And they aren't even waiting for a pretense? Or at least a week?
My prediction:
When Trump passes away many years from now, his family will not be extended an offer for him to lie in state in the Capitol Building...
or
If offered, he will be the first one whose family refuses.
We want Trump gone! Let's keep him in the headlines every day for the next couple of months!
FFS....
I like the way Mitch promised Trump that they wouldn’t convict him if he didn’t pardon Assange and Snowden and then welched within hours. That’s how fundamentally dishonest Republicrats like Mitch are.
Mitch and his Republican Party are only interested in the graft. They don’t deserver our support. Probably never did. Don’t worry Mitch, you will retire rich though, whatever you do to the country.
Gospace said...
A conviction of Trump in the senate? After he’s left office? Provided his health holds up makes him a sure thing in 2024, especially with $10.00 a gallon gasoline.
No.
Most of us will conclude Trump was too nice.
A Constitutional point I'm curious about: does Trump have the right to appear in person and defend himself in front of the Senate? I would think he surely has the moral right to do so, and it would look really bad - downright Fascist - if the Senate refused to allow him to defend himself, and to bring folders full of evidence to pass out, and maybe even a projector for PowerPoint and video displays.
It's not just Q-fans who are still wondering why Trump didn't drop a whole lot more declassified dirt on his way out. What if he has (e.g.) actual videotapes or e-mails of (a) Senators, Representatives, or Governors clearly ordering their subordinates to fix the election or gloating about having done so afterwards, (b) some of the same people ordering Antifa to dress up in Trump gear and invade the Capitol, with assurances that they would be let in and released without bail, while Trumpers who followed them would have the book thrown at them?
It wouldn't take a lot of imagination to come up with a (c) or (d) or (e) that would also prove Trump innocent while proving his accusers guilty of far worse crimes.
"What they ought to do is to make a deal with Trump. Don't run again and we'll drop the whole thing."
You think that's the best deal he could negotiate with the leverage 75 million voters provides? Really?
Hmmm. Speaking of typos, "delicightful" in my 3:57pm was originally "delicious". I tried to change it to "delightful" and ended up with a portmanteau combination of the two.
Trump doesn’t need the Chinese money. We don’t know how many of the “old Washington hands” do. That’s because we don’t have real newspapers.
Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸@JackPosobiec
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17h
Here we go again
BREAKING: Large US military convoy enters northeast Syria on first full day of Biden presidency
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1352474179740827655
Regime change in Syria, it’s what America voted for!
If the Senate votes to impeach on grounds of 'inciting insurrection', then they deserve a real insurrection.
And replaced by Dementia Joe, America's creepy grandfather? Nice going, guys.
Face it though, Biden is thinking ahead, we are going to need to fight those wars for oil since he is cutting off Candian oil and crippling new domestic production.
Wait for the press to chime in on the war drums. “We have always been for wars for oil!"
Or:
Maybe Mitch thinks SloJoe will lend him the Army.
Over the years enough articles have been written about 'what's good for the republican party' to reach the moon. They are only second to the volumes on what's good for minorities.
Over 70 million Americans voted for Trump in 2020. Some of these might be called "true believers," who accept and rejoice in everything Trump. But many others, while perhaps not much appreciating Trump's personality or style, appreciated what he accomplished as POTUS.
Republicans who vote to impeach are going to PO at least half of these voters, and will please very few of them. As a political move, it's catastrophic to future Republican success at the federal level.
Truth cannot be incitement. Trump has a right to have his claims examined. If the Democrats really didn’t steal the election and really wanted to calm things down, they would welcome an open inquiry.
Andrew Sullivan doesn’t seem to think that calming things down is what BIden is after.
I want Biden to succeed. I want Republicans to moderate. I want to lower the temperature. I want to emphasize those policies that really do bring us closer together, even though many may still freely dissent. Biden says he wants to as well. But none of that can or will happen if the president fuels the culture war this aggressively, this crudely, and this soon. You don’t get to unite the country by dividing it along these deep and inflammatory issues of identity. And you don’t achieve equality of opportunity by enforcing its antithesis.
I don’t think Slow Joe Biden is really POTUS, I think his adminstration is being run by a cabal of woke commissars.
Barring Trump from office is not going to stop him. I could imagine him arguing the impeachment was bogus, running anyway, obtaining the nomination, winning the election, and then daring someone to prevent him from taking office.
QUESTIONS:1. Is "a successful conviction... critical for the future of the Republican party"? If the answer isn't "yes," then why would there be a "shared belief that a successful conviction is critical for the future of the Republican party"? Are you dubious that this "shared belief" exists?
I don't doubt that such a belief exists, since a conviction might well be critical for the Republican party to continue as they want in the future.
But I think Temujin has it right, above. The pre-Trump Republican party was in trouble, since rich suburbanites who in the past would have been the core of the Republican party, have been bleeding away to the Democrats for twenty years. I don't think Trump, himself, is the future of the party, or any sustainable party -- he's certainly been willing to cooperate with the party in the past, but he's not the kind of person who'll yoke himself to a policy platform he doesn't control. He might help out during campaigns, I guess, at the risk of overshadowing more conventional candidates (cf. 2018). But something Trump-like both on substance and style is, I think, going to be necessary for Republicans to attract the kinds of working class and minority votes they need to sustain governing majorities.
Biden is increasing the US presence in Syria and Iraq...
Smart thing would be declare victory and reduce our presence. Or keep it at a minimum.
My guess the Biden foreign policy is do the opposite of what Trump did...
Turtle Boy Mitch and Lizard King Dick Cheney's daughter. Maybe there is something in this "reptilians" thing after all.
Impeachment is a process to remove an office holder. It's a meaningless exercise for someone who doesn't hold federal office. They may as well "impeach" you or me.
Having said that, let me also say it's politically stupid. I will never vote for a Republican again, for any office, high or low, if there are enough Republican votes in the Senate for a "conviction". And there are a whole lot of people out there just like me.
A successful "impeachment" may be crucial for the control of the Republican party for the unprincipled, amoral hangers on we see infesting party leadership, but the party itself will go the way of the Whigs if they go through with this sham.
These are the same comments pages that were telling me, in some rather vivid language, that Trump would win the 2020 election in a landslide.
Lolololol.
Biden is increasing the US presence in Syria and Iraq...
Smart thing would be declare victory and reduce our presence. Or keep it at a minimum.
We were never officially in Syria. The American people were never persuaded or even asked if our troops should be put in harm's way there. The people who put them there lied to then-President Trump about how many there were and about how soon they could be withdrawn. A crime, incidentally.
Of course Biden is part of the "invade the world, invite the world" class of people in government who think of themselves as elite, so it won't happen, but we could simply leave.
“Lolololol.”
Enjoy your new Republican Party Mr LLR. Now with 40% fewer voters!
Joe Biden just opened the spigot for a huge influx of cheap foreign coders who come to this country with restrictions so that once Facebook, Google, Twitter, or Apple, or whoever hires them, they can’t leave those companies except by leaving the country altogether.
The same cabal that conspired and succeeded in shutting down Biden’s opposition’s access to mass communication is getting a huge payoff.
Amazon refused to help Trump with vaccine distribution and shows up day one to help Biden. Amazon thinks it’s OK for people to die waiting, if that’s what it took to get rid of Trump. Or they think that their proffered help is worthless, which sounds about right.
"but we could simply leave.”
Yeah, Joe Biden is in a real position to piss off the FBI and CIA who have been pushing this war since forever. Biden is so compromise that if he wants to stay in the position to collect huge graft, he is going to have to march to their beat, and he already is.
I had a conservative Republican labor lawyer-friend (also a fellow RNLA election-day volunteer) go off on me today for the Biden Administration's firing of NLRB GC Peter Robb, and then Alice Stock. He made good points on how wrong the firings were.
Then I asked him; how do we make those arguments with a straight face after Trump's summary firings of at least a half-dozen inspectors general? It's not comparable; Trump's actions were much worse and less explainable.
Biden's firings of Robb and Stock, as bad as they were, were policy firings. Trump's firings of the IG's were corruption firings. Trump didn't advance any particular Republican policy, as Biden is doing.
Good fucking riddance to Trumpism.
Maybe I'm wrong, and GOP senators are really that stupid, but CNN and other media have nothing to lose by releasing a story like this, whether it happened or not. If it didn't happen, this still puts pressure on GOP senators to consider voting guilty. And if they don't, CNN can still whip up its viewers into a frenzy by yelling about Donald Trump for the next few weeks.
What are media outlets going to do when Trump is no longer around? So why not prolong this as long as possible?
Temujin 3:55
Absolutely.
Moreover, the idea is to return to the Obama years with their rotten economy as if there had been no Trump years with a good economy. And, the idea is to think people won't notice they're getting poor if the media takes no notice. And, to think third parties never work, forgetting that the Republican party was a third party. A lot of 20th century ideas about how things work and it's not just the GOPe which is stuck in the past.
PS I wouldn't just accept what CNN says "12 people said Mitch McConnell said". I've always thought McConnell plays the game he's in. He isn't the man to find a new way; he's the man to play the hand he's got that day. We need the man to find the way, we had him, in fact. But no need to trash McConnell because he's McConnell, not Trump. The impeachment trial will be a poisoned chalice for the Dems whenever it happens but it would be better for the country if it did not happen. An American pol can see that but the would-be rulers of East North Korea cannot.
What about the Trump Presidential Library? Will that still be a thing?
Howard said... Conviction isn't going to happen. Oh, wait. Maybe he'll get to keep filibuster for a conviction.
This is all just posturing.
Mitch is a smart and devious motherfucker. He has already talked to Roberts and knows that he will rule that impeachment is unconstitutional.
It is like trying to evict someone from an apartment after they have already moved. A show for the fools like Howard and the Resident Idiot.
Mitch is a smart and devious motherfucker. He has already talked to Roberts and knows that he will rule that impeachment is unconstitutional.
This is another possibility. This will allow the GOP senators to not have to take a stand one way or the other, other than posturing. And the Dems will scream bloody murder, but down deep, they'll be happy with this ending as well.
We'll see on Monday...
"Good fucking riddance to Trumpism.”
Now with 40% fewer voters!
Mitch taught me that I am the real RINO, I am the Republican in Name Only. Message received scumbag! I will soon be correcting the naming error.
tim in vermont said...
“Lolololol.”
Enjoy your new Republican Party Mr LLR. Now with 40% fewer voters!
More like 85-90%.
It’s CNN, so it’s fake news. But if there are any actual Republicans who think this, they have already lost. Trump ain’t going away. He’ll go forward. His voters will go with him.
More like 85-90%.
In 2 years, the GOP will be selling the same snake-oil as they always have, "You HAVE to vote for us. Or the Dems will continue with this craziness!! Eleventy..."
Let's just hope a lot of people don't fall for it that time.
He's out of office already. This is beyond the pale.
If it’s really an impeachment, and not just a bill of attainder, isn’t the Senate obligated to take it up immediately and drop all other business, or is it a political question, like every other line in the constitution?
>>>>That's fine. My Wife and I have just changed our party affiliation to Unaffiliated. Mitch and his crew have left us, we did not leave the Republican disaster. Some of my neighbors have done the same. They want us to leave so they get what they wanted. A Rump Party.
They’ll be happy mouthing useless words about tax cuts and the deficit while putting up milquetoast candidates like Bob Dole, John McCain and Pierre Delecto. Oh, and maybe they’ll give JEN another shot in 2024.. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
JEB! Not Jen, whoever that is.
Trump is gone. If they go thru more BS harassment - Mitch will dig his own grave.
Based on the filibuster talk this week the lefties, instead of doing away with the filibuster will be looking for some buy in from Republicans so their crap sandwiches are 'bipartisan' Mitch is just the man to deliver for them.
Rush played a montage of Democrat Party journalists yammering on how Trump voters are all "cultists who must be de-programmed"
In unison... Like programmed robots.
"Sewing division"?
1st post wins it.
Lindsey Graham is saying just the opposite. Mitch has lost all his marbles.
Is this even legal? Constitutional?
Someone here must know?
The Nation's Capitol is not a citadel. It is not a sacred place. It is a building that houses parasites from the 4 corners of this land.
Innocently, We, the People send our vigorish to that cesspit of corruption, hoping to be left alone. We are waking up to the fact, that we will not be left alone.
We haven't had a Republic for decades. We don't even have a Democracy now.
This story has played out for generations, upon generations.
I have to admit, though...it's an interesting game.
In this world, but not of it.
Nelson County back in his state, formerly censured the turtle,
This is now nothing but a bill of attainder which is unconstitutional. Also any real trial would show that the rioters came prepared for trouble before trump gave his speech. That they impeached on pure emotion is not a good look.
the Hunger Games is not a cautionary tale for them,
Some state constitutions provide that impeachment cannot be escaped by resignation or the cessation of the official term. But the federal constitution is unclear.
The Democrats are going to argue that this kind of recall of public officials is very broad and limited only by the formalities of the impeachment trial. So even if a conviction will not remove Trump from office, it will close the door to future office. Maybe Republicans counter that Trump should have a chance for popular vindication. We are a democracy right? And, if the Americans want this SOB in 2024, then they should suffer the consequences of their vote.
https://amgreatness.com/2021/01/21/sen-mcconnell-censored-by-nelson-county-gop-in-kentucky-after-accusing-trump-of-provoking-riot-at-the-u-s-capitol/
In this world, but not of it.
Amen, Hercules!
Most of my associates happen to be Republicans. A conviction if supported by any Republicans would result in most, if not all of them changing their affiliation immediately. "The Republicans" allowed the theft of an election (perceived even if not actual, didn't actively support any investigation into that election, are considering joining the folks across the aisle in this show trial, and then seem to think things will quickly move back into business as usual. Dream on.
Trump defeated the Republican Party.
Governors, Senators, old hands, up and comers, social conservatives, social liberals, fiscal conservatives, fiscal liberals, men, women, Black, White, Latino, he beat them all.
He defeated $100 million Jeb! with a single tweet.
And these people think that Republican Party still exists?
At least Steve Schmidt has the brains to realize he's a Democrat now.
Graham is 100% correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JArR6NjcqaQ
If McConnell and some bozos actually conspire with Schumer to convict Trump, I’m out of the party. I don’t know if Repxit is a thing, but it will be.
Blogger BlackjohnX said...
This was my response to Rep McCarthy asking for money this morning:
You answer ? I get 30 texts a day. Now they are desperate and telling me my "membership" has expired. I just delete them all every few days.
Banned Commenter, Who Was Banned LLR-lefty Chuck: "I had a conservative Republican labor lawyer-friend....."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
A transparent lie.
Utterly transparent.
Perfectly sheer.
Tell us another one pro-marxist boy!
It is impossible to avoid the obvious conclusion: the republican party establishment is completely aligned with the democraticals and desperately wants permanent "Washington Generals"-like minority status where they can pretend to oppose democratical policy pronouncements while executing one Failure Theatre operation after another.
Had LLR-lefty Chuck not revealed himself as a far left pro-marxist pro-child-sex-groomer FakeCon moby long ago, he might have provided a good example of this type of republican.
Tim: ““Lolololol. Enjoy your new Republican Party Mr LLR. Now with 40% fewer voters!”
40%? When was Republican approval of Trump only 40%?
Kevin: "At least Steve Schmidt has the brains to realize he's a Democrat now."
Actually, Steve Schmidt "officially" left/leaves the republican party at least 8 times per month every month for the last 5 years.
Tim: ““Lolololol. Enjoy your new Republican Party Mr LLR. Now with 40% fewer voters!”
40%? When was Republican approval of Trump only 40%?
The conventional wisdom is that 3rd Parties always lose. No one is talking about a 3rd Party.
If we want to continue this thing we had, we're talking about a 2nd Party. We've got the Dem/Rep Party. Let's have a second Party.
Here's the thing. If you are elected as a Representative to the Capitol City, you're pretty much ignored, at first. If you make the right noises, you advance. At that point the Borg discovers your weakness. Is it money? Is it sex? Girl sex, or boy sex? Is it fame?
Washington DC will find your weakness, and you will vote as Satan tells you to.
There is not a man or woman in this world that can resist the subtle whispering.
I think each of our States should press the 9th & 10th Amendments, authored by men who tried to warn us.
So if its "Constitutional" for the Senate to convict Trump and impeach him (even though he's not President) and then punish him by barring him from future office. Does that mean that if this attempt fails, Pelosi and Schumer can just keep on trying?
Can they just keep on impeaching trump every week and having a trial and hope The R's get tired and convict. Or just keep digging into Trump's record and find something, anything, he did as President and use that?
As far as I can tell, if you grant this trial is constitutional, then having 100 trials after Trump has left office is constitutional.
Its amazing how crazy, insane, and vindictive this all is. No President, Senator, or Congressman, at least since 1900 has been treated by the opposing party with such hatred and anger. Literally nothing is beyond the pale when it comes to "getting trump".
I guess all that rhetoric about "Uniting the country" was bullshit and lasted about 60 minutes.
How can we miss him, if they won't let him go away?
As for Mitch McConnell, his conduct is even more despicable. Trump was responsible for him keeping the Senate in 2016 and 2018 AND limiting the loses in 2020. Trump is responsible for the tax cuts AND all those R judges which Mitch is so proud of. But now... Mitch revels that he's hated Trump all along and will either help to destroy him or be a pontius pilate.
Liz Cheney is the CNN source, obviously.
A 3rd party splits the vote of the party it mostly came from, and the other party wins, unless there's a runoff law. That's why two parties is stable.
Arrow's theorem, there's no fair voting system, however.
what will Jealous little girl Mitt Romney do? Will he show that class and Christianity that everyone is always imputing to him, or will he take his chance to get his final revenge?
Any Third Party would have to attract Democrat votes. Otherwise you're just splitting the Republican/Independent vote. The only purpose of a 3rd Party would be to endorse the right Republican's candidate and then run 3rd Party if the Republican was so horrible, it'd be better to have a 3rd party guy win. THe conservative New York party elected Buckley Senator that way.
Birches: There are 9 other Republican congressman who could be the source. 10 of them voted with Pelosi and hate Trump.
According to the headlines Trump has an approval of 51% in the latest Poll and over 90% with Republicans. If 16-20 R Senators vote to convict, their careers are over.
I would bet my house that McConnell and his wife voted for HRC in 2016 and Biden in 2020.His allegiance is to the deep state- not the Republican party.Whether he publicly votes for impeachment or not, McConnell will be doing all he can to silence Trump.Has McConnell made any statement on tech using their monopoly to silence Trump and others on the right? Not that I have heard.
Dr Weevil said...
A Constitutional point I'm curious about: does Trump have the right to appear in person and defend himself in front of the Senate? I would think he surely has the moral right to do so, and it would look really bad - downright Fascist - if the Senate refused to allow him to defend himself, and to bring folders full of evidence to pass out, and maybe even a projector for PowerPoint and video displays.
-----------==============
Well done Sir : impressive production values for Trump Rally from Senate Floor
CJ Roberts still would have to read questions submitted in writing!?
Trump allowed answers or riffs on his own and CJ shuts him down?!
under-cutting-current in all this of course >> "Nation of Laws"
I'm pretty dubious about unnamed sources quoting the notoriously close mouthed and unemotional McConnell. On the other hand, Mitch may be enthused about having the Democrats spin their wheels on a show trial as opposed to trying to enact their agenda for the next 3 to 6 months.
Burn it down, boys. Don't forget to salt the earth after.
They still seem to believe that the old GOP exists from an electorate standpoint. It doesn't. There's no going back. Impeaching Trump will only harden the resistance against them. It's strange that they don't see what is obvious.
I straddle affinities between miracles like Mitch's success in confirming conservative judges, and Trump populism. I'm grateful for the former, but Mitch either doesn't realize or doesn't care how irrelevant his branch of the party is about to become.
His apparent course may, in fact, fatally weaken the GOP as a force against the burgeoning hate-filled Progressive element of the Democratic party. But if you're just examining the factions in the GOP, tipping the balance in favor of convicting Trump will achieve two things: Increase the odds of political violence (which I oppose), and erase the national Republican party for awhile, if not permanently. I mean Mitch will be fine, he and his wife have all the money they will ever need so YOLO. But the above two outcomes are as sure as gravity.
That Mitch is still the Republican Leader in the Senate after losing the election shows the GOP is moribund.
The Republican Party has been dead so long the non-commie republicans became "conservatives" now they're dead too.
I have no idea why people still cannot grasp what the MAGA/Trump coalition is. Normally I'd think they are just being deliberately obtuse/ignorant, but I really think they have no idea why people support the policies of Trump.
In 2 years, the GOP will be selling the same snake-oil as they always have, "You HAVE to vote for us. Or the Dems will continue with this craziness!! Eleventy..."
Let's just hope a lot of people don't fall for it that time.
Oh, I'm sure in 2 years plenty of people will still think voting matters.
Force McConnell out. Replace him with someone who favors Schumer to make it easier and less contentious.
What really pisses me off about the fake news impeachment debacle is how much it overshadowed Tiffany's engagement.
"Because love is simply worth it," the jeweler wrote in a Facebook post about the ring. "Congratulations to the power couple."
"It has been an honor to celebrate many milestones, historic occasions and create memories here at the White House, none more special than my engagement to my amazing fiancé Michael," she wrote.
Senate Democrat leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) on Friday evening announced the impeachment trial for Trump will begin the week of February 8th. ..
The question is, what do they plan on doing that week that won't get reported. Probably something to facilitate war or gun confiscation.
Pelosi announced that she is sending the Article of Impeachment to the Senate on Monday. The Senate has to choose whether to hold a trial right away (and shut down, or partially shut down confirming Biden appointees) or delaying the trial.
If it is the latter, every day that passes will likely provide more information about the prior knowledge of what was going to happen by the FBI and Capitol Police. "What did they know, when did they know it, and what did they do about it."
It has already been reported that they knew. But bureaucratic entities are usually very accomplished at sweeping their failures under the rug.
The more information of this type that does come out, the less likely that Trump will be convicted or perhaps that the trial will even take place.
Said "one Republican member of Congress,"
I note that it doesn't say a current Republican member of Congress. I see Paul Ryan talking.
@Althouse, very sound, very skeptical analysis. I think it's pretty difficult to assess what this is all about without knowing who the alleged "one Republican member of Congress" is. To whom among the members of the House of Representatives would McConnell normally speak candidly? Maybe Liz Cheney, a member of the GOP leadership in the House? She's supposedly in serious trouble over her vote for impeachment, though other sources think Kevin McCarthy will be able to spend some political capital and keep her in place as the number 3 Republican. Maybe a member of the Kentucky delegation? Rep. Massie has a reputation as a maverick, but he voted against impeachment and would probably just as soon that Trump was found not guilty.
I think you would agree with me that the phrase "Trump gone" has multiple interpretations. At this point Donald Trump is out of office. Would McConnell want him back in town offering up a vigorous defense to the foolish charges? Does McConnell believe that Trump getting headlines and appearing on TV? That's not "gone," that's "I'm ba-a-a-a-ack." So I rather think not. Letting impeachment quietly die, preferably by a ruling from Roberts that you cannot impeach someone who holds no office, would seem like McConnell's best alternative.
"As for Mitch McConnell, his conduct is even more despicable. Trump was responsible for him keeping the Senate in 2016 and 2018 AND limiting the loses in 2020."
Assuming Mr. McConnell wanted that. Perhaps it's less work being the minority leader, while still providing access to all that sweet, sweet swamp grift?
"Is "a successful conviction... critical for the future of the Republican party"?"
Yes.
On the other hand, no conviction is even more critical.
Conclusion: the GOP is screwed.
rhhardin-A 3rd party splits the vote of the party it mostly came from.
Conventional wisdom.
We are sick of the Democrats and Republicans. I am sick of the Democrats and Republicans.
I have voted for both, except for 2000, when I voted for Harry Browne. We are sick of it, and all the webs of deceit of our filthy Capitol City.
Caveat: I would be no better. All men succumb to the 24hr a day corruption of a City that has Trillions flowing though it, with the participants invited to wet their beaks. I know myself enough to know...God forgive me... I would succumb. Would you? Be honest.
When we elect a Representative to the US Congress, we wave our flags, and spout, 'We're #1'. And then...we ignore them for 2 years. We cannot see when they are drowning. They don't look like they are drowning.
All men drown in the swamp. We don't know when to bring them home. We only find out after, when they never come home again.
Begley misrepresents the constitution. This should surprise no-one.
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