That's the question I'd like to see polled.
I think that the "yes" answer needs to be quite high — at least above 50% — for the impeachment trial to make sense.
But the question has 2 words in it that I think most people could not define accurately. Maybe the pollsters could insert a definition. Something like this:
1. An insurrection is "a violent uprising against an authority or government." Do you believe what happened at the Capitol on January 6th was an insurrection?
2. "To incite" is to "encourage or stir up." Do you believe that Donald Trump intended to incite an insurrection?
Do you think there would be big "yes" answer on question 2?
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243 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 243 of 243“Superciliousness isn't a good look outside your Althouse Hothouse Flower safe space.”
With Parler being gone, they need a safe space, I guess.
1. Are all riots insurrections if they are directed against government facilities? Were the summer of love events in Seattle and Portland acts of insurrection? They were certainly against government facilities. If they aren't acts of insurrection, then NO, the events of Jan. 6 don't rise to an insurrection.
2. NO. There is no evidence at this point to suggest he wanted the events of Jan. 6 to occur. It was against the interests of the America First movement. If there are emails to be discovered between the President and agitators that breeched the Capitol, planning for the breech of the Capitol building, then my judgement would change.
Had there been protests outside the building, including damage to government property (fences torn down, etc.) but no damage to the building (broken windows, etc.) but no one entered the building, would that be considered an insurrection?
If there had been plans by outside groups to enter the building and capture government officials, but that evidence was never given to the administration or the President, and he wasn't aware independent of government law enforcement of these plans, can he still be held liable for anything he said on Jan. 6?
Why did they storm the Capitol? What was their reasoning? They wanted to stop the culmination of a fair and free election by 81 million Americans. That is what makes us a democracy. That is not insurrection? What is it? They were calling out and looking for Pence and Pelosi? What were there intentions?
You folks are so deeply in your delusion that you cannot even answer these simple questions without answering them without bringing in more conspiracy theory.
Their
Trump knew full well he was inciting them to stop the proceedings in the Capitol. He used his loyal followers poorly.
1) no
2) no
But to quote the smartest woman in America - "what difference, at this point, does it make?"
gilbar said: "Seditious conspiracy is a conspiracy to commit sedition. It is a federal crime in the United States per 18 U.S.C. § 2384: If two or more persons ... "
So it needs evidence of collaboration. One person acting alone can't be charged with sedition. Interesting.
"... or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States ... "
Also interesting. Conspiring to not enforce immigration laws is sedition? Cue up the retrospective Obama impeachment!
I see that the Resident Idiot has now become a mind reader. Not bad for someone held back in Nursing School for failure to master the bedpan.
The lefties desperation to indict Trump for exercising Free Speech is not just pathetic. It is scary because these people are too stupid and ahistorical to realize the consequences of stifling our most basic freedom.
TDS has somehow managed to escalate even further now that Trump is out of office
Democrat liberalization and the left-of center Republican axis, and em-pathetic advocates and activists, have been normalizing acutely phobic reactions and inciting violent actions through JournoListic braying, trans-socialization, and steering engines over the last 17 trimesters in progress. The process has been progressive over a multidecadal period through semantic games, conception corruption, cultural appropriation, projections/displacement, and conflation of logical domains. Everyone, eventually, kneels to Democrat Club: Pro-Choice, Regulaton, and the pursuit of Equity.
"Why did they storm the Capitol? What was their reasoning? They wanted to stop the culmination of a fair and free election by 81 million Americans. That is what makes us a democracy. That is not insurrection? What is it? They were calling out and looking for Pence and Pelosi? What were there intentions?"
-- So... see. This sort of reasoning is weak and dangerous. It's the very sort of reasoning that could end with a lot of people in gulags for believing Russia hacked the 2016 election and backed government efforts to conspire against Trump to impeach him.
If you submit such a weak, flimsy definition for "insurrection," all the people at the 2017 Inauguration who protested and the people this summer at the White House gates are next against the wall. But, I don't see you ACTUALLY advocating for those insurrectionists to face consequences. The issue with unleashing the evil of black lists and purges is that, frankly, it is next to impossible to put it back in the box, and you never know when your name will end up on a black list, or worse, on a list in the new McCarthy's hand.
Derangement is reflected in the campaign being whipped up against Republican House Members who voted impeachment. Big tent?
"Derangement is reflected in the campaign being whipped up against Republican House Members who voted impeachment. Big tent?"
-- We saw a mass euthanizing of Blue Dog Democrats during the Obama years, so I expect there will be some shift as what used to be known as Rockefeller Republicans, or now, RINOs or cucks, get ejected as they no longer adhere as closely to the Republican party's positions. It's a natural political realignment.
Inga: For Years, Trump has been pumping up "the base" with tough talk about tough guys with all the guns taking back their country then sprung the trap with the fake fraud scam isolating his hard corp fans further from normals. All facilitated by Twitter and Facebook.
Contrary to Don's rep with the ladies, he performed very intoxicating foreplay building to an explosive climax.
Michael Yon.
Readering said... Big tent?
Absolutely gigantic compared to the "diversity" of views in the Democrat tent.
BTW, Are you and Howard looking for jobs that the new administration is offering? I hear there are openings for guards at the new CIA re-education camps that John Brennan will be running.
Our Resident Idiot could be a camp nurse because it doesn't matter if she kills off the patients.
Some may have had insurrection in mind, but if they were serious about it, they would have brought some weapons. So no, it wasn't an insurrection.
“Some may have had insurrection in mind, but if they were serious about it, they would have brought some weapons. So no, it wasn't an insurrection.”
They improvised. Flag poles, fire extinguishers, shields they took from the Capitol police, how did they manage to break windows that weren’t meant to break easily? With their bare hands? Why make excuses for the very apparent violence, it’s all on hundreds of videos.
God help Harris and Biden when the Republicans retake the House in 2022. If it is an impeachable offense to suggest peaceful protest at the Capitol, then what is it when you promote, and pay bail money for, ongoing nightly violence against federal courthouses in Portland?
These impeachment shenanigans by the House could become hilariously frequent.
Rockefeller Republicans!
Rockefeller, who was dropped from the Republican ticket in 1976, died in 1979, and Rockefeller Republicans did not survive much longer. The 10 were mostly Reagan Republicans. Still a thing? We'll see how long Trump Republicans remain as a force.
It was planned, Inga, by the mythical antifa, BLM activists and Qanon. Everyone else just took advantage of the incompetent response of the Capitol Police to party on the Capitol grounds. Some of those partiers entered the Capitol after the said incompetent Capitol Police opened the doors. The damage was minimal, with a few broken windows and a few missing trophies. Nancy's laptop should have been encrypted, so their should have been no data spill, but knowing Botox Nancy, it wasn't.
The FBI knew this was being planned. Nancy's office new it was being planned, yet they didn't prepare for the onslaught. Didn't accept help from the FBI or DHS. Didn't have sufficient police at the barriers and didn't put up adequate barriers. The 1/6 riots smell of being a convenient excuse to scapegoat DJT one more time. Typical of the Democrat barbarians, always breaking civilization's norms to tear down our Republic. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
If I was going to an insurrection, I'd bring lots of food.
The Acting Secretary of Homeland Security has issued a National Terrorism Advisory System (NTAS) Bulletin due to a heightened threat environment across the United States, which DHS believes will persist in the weeks following the successful Presidential Inauguration. Information suggests that some ideologically-motivated violent extremists with objections to the exercise of governmental authority and the presidential transition, as well as other perceived grievances fueled by false narratives, could continue to mobilize to incite or commit violence.
Duration
Issued: January 27, 2021 11:00 am
Expires: April 30, 2021 01:00 pm
Thanks Trump.
So, DHS is forecasting more antifa/BLM riots? That's obvious in Portland and Seattle, since the local government has never met an antifa/BLM rioter it couldn't call friend.
No. I think it's bullsh*t. Maybe some of these losers who insist that the riots were a White supremacist insurrection suffer from extreme racial paranoia. But most of these creeps just want a war on "domestic terror." The government wants to intimidate Americans and coerce them into accepting open borders and globalization. These people are not motivated by fear of a nonexistent White supremacist insurrection.
That being said. Trump is a piece of sh*t.
Same with failure to uphold his oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution by trying to steal the election and illegitimately hold onto power.
It is absolutely impossible to try to reason with this level of dishonesty and stupidity.
I want a divorce.
Issued: January 27, 2021 11:00 am
Expires: April 30, 2021 01:00 pm
Thanks Trump.
It is absolutely impossible to try to reason with this level of dishonesty and stupidity.
No, and no
Any more questions?
A violent insurrection would have had hundreds to thousands of people dead, and the first deaths would have been among the defenders, not the protestors.
Are there a lot of Americans out there who wonder why the National Guard is going to remain in force in DC until March? is the Rice/Harris administration that afraid?
Nice try gilbar but no cigar.
I've even talked about "seditious conspiracy" and the law against it.
So I gather that you now realize there is no law against sedition. You learned something new today.
You're welcome.
John henry
Doug asks: Are there a lot of Americans out there who wonder why the National Guard is going to remain in force in DC until March? is the Rice/Harris administration that afraid?
It's a show of force and nothing more. Ordered by Empress Nancy to strike fear and trembling into her many enemies. Of course, nothing incites insurrection like implementing martial law.
First time in history that insurrectionists took no weapons to their insurrection. Chinese peasants took with them their ploughs, pitchforks, and wooden sticks.
Another first: only one shot was fired, by a police officer. Then the insurrectionists stop their insurrection.
Half a million people gathered at the seat of Power, Washington, DC to petition their Government for a redress of their Grievance, that the 2020 election was stolen.
Unlike Progressive protests of 100 people, which are slathered with obsequious attention, and round the clock coverage... those people, smelly Americans dared to freely assemble.
Let us not complain. Let us adapt to the rules as they exist, not as we thought they were.
The biggest fight we face is trying to convince our individual States to reject Federal Money and all the Gullerverian tiny strands that tie us to the Progressive project.
Our fight is not with the parasite infested Leviathan of Washington, DC. who have made us beggars. Our fight is in our State, and within ourselves, to throw off the chains of servitude that we acquiesced to for over half a Century. The tiny strands became a rope, which became a chain.
Let us look to our States, and then press our 9th & 10th Amendment claims to our cesspit of a Capitol City. If we have to, we can bring our petition, not with ink, but written in lead.
The biggest fight we face is trying to convince our individual States to reject Federal Money and all the Gullerverian tiny strands that tie us to the Progressive project.
Some states, like Texas, would find it relatively easy but others would not. I like your thinking, though. I'd even like to see counties take more autonomy.
John Henry doesn't read my posts, and said
So I gather that you now realize there is no law against sedition. You learned something new today.
IF you'd read my posts, you'd have known that i have been talking about Eugene Debs and the 1918 sedition act, But i guess you're too pendeja to be able to read english
have a nice night
Nope, gilbar. I understood your post. I never claimed that sedition had never been illegal. It has been.
You had said something about trying president trump (or someone) for sedition. I asked for the usc where it is illegal. There is none. There being no law, there can be no charges.
You came up with seditious conspiracy which is against the law. But which is not sedition.
And while on the topic, a question for the lawyers :
How can a conspiracy to do something be illegal when the something being conspired about (sedition here) is legal? Or at least not illegal if there is a difference.
John Henry
And gilbar, if you think president trump conspired to commit sedition (a crime) I'd be interested to hear your theory of how.
John Henry
1) Yes. There were a number of people in the invading group at the Capitol whose goal was to capture Pence and force him to reject the electoral votes of certain states. That counts as an attempt to overthrow the government in my book, even if it was particularly stupid and unlikely to be successful.
2) I don't know what Trump wanted. His words were reckless, to say the least, but did he intend for his followers to invade the Capitol and terrorize the Senate and the House? I don't know. I'd like to see more evidence about what he knew in advance, whether he had any inkling that his followers were planning to invade the Capitol building. I'd like to see all his electronic and written communications for the prior two weeks and I'd like to hear testimony from everyone he talked to during those two weeks. I'd also like to hear whatever evidence he might offer in defense.
The old “I didn’t intend anything but, if I did, I only intended to cause a riot not an insurrection” defense.
The question I would like to see polled:
Do you support what Donald Trump did on January 6?
The Democrats and the media did the inciting. The nation was taught over the previous 4 years that rioting ,arson,vandalism and violence was protesting and would get desired results.
Gusty Winds said:
//roesch/voltaire said.. And I think Pence, who just missed getting handcuffed by a 100 feet and a few seconds//
and then said:
//What a bunch of lying bullshit.//
Now now Gusty, be that as it may, roesch/voltaire declaring what she/he/it [or shit] *thinks* is not probative of shit's *veracity,* however stupid shit's thinking might be.
(Strive always to lob accusations only at appropriate times, no matter how accurate it may be -- especially whem there is no shortage of appropriate times. :) )
Gusty Winds said:
//roesch/voltaire said.. And I think Pence, who just missed getting handcuffed by a 100 feet and a few seconds//
and then said:
//What a bunch of lying bullshit.//
Now now Gusty, be that as it may, roesch/voltaire declaring what she/he/it [or shit] *thinks* is not probative of shit's *veracity,* however stupid shit's thinking might be.
(Strive always to lob accusations only at appropriate times, no matter how accurate it may be -- especially whem there is no shortage of appropriate times. :) )
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