"... but that was after burning personal and financial bridges to the Republican Party that sustained them and built their handsome homes over the years. (For the record, I have received zero compensation for my association with the Lincoln Project, but I hope the owners of the organization get plenty rich. They’ve earned it.) For most of us, media appearances came only with a ride to the studio and free coffee. (At 30 Rock in New York, at least it was Starbucks.)... If we’d been in it for our own enrichment, we’d have made the smart play and signed on with Trump, because that’s where the money was right from the start.... Now that it looks like Trump is headed for defeat, some Republicans feel safe to criticize him again. But courage exercised only when the coast is clear is not courage; it is opportunism...."
How is it that NYC is supposed to be the greatest city in the world, but people there say "at least it was Starbucks"? In Madison, you'd never say that. It would be more like "The other cafés were closed so I was stuck going to Starbucks. Sorry. Had to do it...."
As for the Never Trumpers... did they do it for their own self-interest?
Posts
111 comments:
Yes.
Nichols is not a New Yorker. He was visiting. Coffee other places he visited must have been worse.
Yeah. We’ve all noticed how much courage is required to attack Trump. That’s why nobody does it. /s
These NeverTrump assholes not only delude themselves, they are trying to delude the voters with the sleaziest ads ever.
You can't spell incest without insect. These people are whores. Whores that know their way around word processing programs, but whores nonetheless.
They should all stand in dark alleys with cardboard signs saying "Will Polish Your Knob Using Proper Grammar For Cash".
As for the Never Trumpers... did they do it for their own self-interest?
All politics is an expression of self-interest. This even gets formalized, under the rubric of Public Choice Theory. The sooner more of the electorate understands this, the better.
Maybe post on POTUS middle-of-night SCOTUS tweet?
As for the Never Trumpers... did they do it for their own self-interest?
Yes, they did.
None of them were ever actually conservative, they just claimed it because they thought that was the easier side to write for.
If you're actually a conservative, you pretty much love every Trump policy that's been carried out other than his "trade wars". And if you pay attention to reality, then a conservative who values all Americans notices that "free trade" with China is an objectively bad policy for a lot of Americans (and it's ones who have been less well off), as well as being geopolitically bad for America
They're now writing for their actual side. But the only reason anyone pays any attention to them is because they think they can use the NeverTrumpers to get actual Republicans to vote for the Democrats
Their working for their 30 pieces of silver, and will be tossed aside after the election, win or lose
"Now that it looks like Trump is headed for defeat,..."
Living in the New York bubble. I happened to be in NYC the week after the 2016 election. You've never seen such long faces and important people keeled over into the fetal position. I was actually caught off guard by it. I could not believe the extent of emotion they had invested defeating The Donald.
Well, if Trump pulls it off this time, there will be a Howl that will make Allen Ginsberg roll over in his grave. Heads exploding like some old Warner Brothers cartoon.
There isn't enough popcorn in the world for me to sit and watch this show.
I think the NeverTrumpers had good and sensible reasons to take that position to start. But having taken it, they then had to mostly double-down for a multitude of reasons, including to continue making a living, and a natural human desire for social companions.
But politics is rarely a game with the luxury of finding a perfect solution. Electoral politics is all about choices, and picking the best of the options that are realistically available. I think that's where the NeverTrumpers really let themselves get cross-wise with the Republican Party rank-and-file.
If you're NeverTrump because you believe he's a vile, unethical beast, ok. But to be truly principled, you have to view the other options available through the same strict lens. If you're NeverTrump because you believe in the Russian Collusion allegation, then shouldn't the material from the laptop and Bobulinski (and Biden himself bragging about forcing the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the company his son was being paid big money to be on the board of) make you feel the same way about Biden?
If you don't like Trump's comments about women (and who would), then you should be equally concerned about the rape allegations against Biden and his long, long history of general creepiness in his public interactions with some women.
And the NeverTrumpers eventually turned against Trump supporters in addition to Trump himself. Some of that was good, shining some needed light on corruption within the leadership of some evangelical circles. But it spilled over more broadly to many NeverTrumpers attacking Trump supporters in general with the same vehemence that the Democrats normally show ("deplorable" and "bitter people clinging to their guns and their religion").
Most broadly, nobody, not the Democrats or the NeverTrumpers, have come to terms with the fact that a very large swath of the population found Hillary Clinton (and may well find Joe Biden) such a terrible choice that Donald Trump, with all his many flaws and shortcomings, was a better choice. There are good, rational, defensible reasons for coming to that conclusion, but very few people really want to address it.
Now that it looks like Trump is headed for defeat, some Republicans feel safe to criticize him again.
No, asshole. Hell no. Win or lose, you screwed yourself. You screwed your friends, and for what? Do you think the GOP rank and file will welcome back with open arms?
Contempt is something that grows the more you hear people like this talk...and it never will go away.
For Trump supporters, it was never that these characters were bought off by Demmie billions. It was that these people couldn't see that if you agree with someone 75% percent of the time, you are on the same side (to use an old Reaganism). Donald Trump was a shaky proposition, but his performance in office has exceeded all expectations for any long-time GOPer. We are used to office-holders who talked a good game, and then quit as the battle was joined. Trump dug in and then moved forward.
Also, no president of either party should have to put up with the attempted coups that the Demmies and the NeverTrumpers staged throughout Trump's time in office and apparently plan to continue. You disagree with policy or practice? Fine. Make your arguments and plan to win the next election. Don't try to overturn the last election. The GOP's biggest mistake was trying to impeach Clinton. They should have slowly leaked the bad stuff and let him stand or fall on his own sins. Instead, several high level GOP house members went down in flames for their own derelictions, including Newt Gingrich.
I hope Trump wins, and the Tom Nicholses of the world will have to eat dirt again. Maybe some day Nichols won't even be able to get on MSNBC.
I happened to be in NYC the week after the 2016 election. You've never seen such long faces and important people keeled over into the fetal position.
From 2016...
Three days after the election, my wife and I were shopping at the Fairway Market in Red Hook, Brooklyn. For those unfamiliar with it, Fairway is a less corporate, more co-op version of Whole Foods, offering pretty produce and exotic cheeses that don’t come cheap. The mood in the store was glum. As in most of Brooklyn, people stared ahead, moving slowly, still in shock from the political earthquake of Tuesday night.
After getting our Brazilian Arabica ground for drip (I know, I should really use a French Press), Libby and I walked towards the organic maple syrup. That’s when it started. I suppose there had been music playing in the store, but I hadn’t noticed until a familiar guitar lick pierced the air and a soft voice said, “Turn it up.”
Libby and I both stopped and looked at each other. “Seriously?” said my wife, a very disappointed Clinton supporter. She started gripping her soft Tomme Crayeuse a little too hard. By the time Ronnie Van Zant’s drawl started in with “Big wheels keep on turnin’,” everyone in the store was standing in shock. Brows were furrowed, people mumbled to each other. The song seemed to get louder as one of those New York moments happened, when everyone was thinking the exact the same thing.
A woman in her fifties, wearing a Love Trump Hates button, turned to her Brooklyn-bearded husband and said loudly, “This is unbelievable!” She found the nearest store clerk, a young woman in a green apron who was staring up at the ceiling, looking for the invisible speakers blaring this message from the other America. “This is so inappropriate,” the woman said. “Can we turn this off?”
https://thefederalist.com/2016/11/23/brooklyn-grocery-store-played-sweet-home-alabama-everyone-lost-minds/
Greg the Class Traitor: If you're actually a conservative, you pretty much love every Trump policy that's been carried out other than his "trade wars". And if you pay attention to reality, then a conservative who values all Americans notices that "free trade" with China is an objectively bad policy for a lot of Americans (and it's ones who have been less well off), as well as being geopolitically bad for America
Ding ding ding ding! "Free trade" needs to mean more than "a race to the bottom on price and quality," "environmental and labor law arbitrage," and "economic dependency for vital goods such as medical supplies, rare earth metals, etc."
The ATLANTIC and National Review are on my "never read again" and "untouchable" lists. The STUPID was STRONG in these ones.
@Temujin -
Living in the New York bubble. I happened to be in NYC the week after the 2016 election. You've never seen such long faces and important people keeled over into the fetal position. I was actually caught off guard by it. I could not believe the extent of emotion they had invested defeating The Donald.
I was traveling the next day, and there were lots of people actually weeping at LaGuardia.
Haven't these Never Trumpers always busied themselves every 2-4 years with either the defeat of Republicans or the downfall of the country?
Why should 2020 be any different?
The only difference since Trump was elected is that Republicans aren't paying for it.
He hopes they made a lot of money. All he wanted was a nice bottle of wine. Like too many academicians, he doesn't understand that the salary we pay him is his payment to be a public intellectual. And he writes about professional expertise? That's ironic.
I remember 2016, when some emotional obsessives tried to nullify our votes at the 9th District GA convention. By the way, our Congressman Doug Collins conspicuously did nothing to defend our mandate for Trump that day: he's a liar. I never thought I would have to fight in this country to have my vote be officially recognized. Nevertrumpers are a continuation of that attempted disenfranchisement and political coup.
They are traitors.
The Never-Trumpers are cocksucking traitors.
Not just to the party, but to the country.
Their hatred for Trump is based on two main things:
His style...he's not 'one of us.'
He's anti-war...and those weapons won't build themselves.
Eisenhower was right.
A loss for Trump is a win for socialism and globalism.
Folks like this know how to play both sides so they'll make money either way.
Traitors should be shot.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for these people? Trump wins in a landslide.
There isn't enough popcorn in the world for me to sit and watch this show
I too was caught off guard by people I once valued and/or respected being doubled over by a Trump win.
I'm going to enjoy it this time. Will savor every moment.
Every time one of these "Never-Trump" grifters uses the word conservative, I have an Inigo Montoya moment.
Sometimes it's the one where he says "You keep using that word..."
Sometimes it's the one where he says "Prepare to die."
I am listening to 4+ hours of Douglas Murray and Eric Weinstein discuss the present situation and heard Weinstein refer to all this effort by the media as "The Iago Effect".
This seems to sums up what we are watching take place. I challenge anyone to make a case for Trump as Desdemona, but it seems to capture this media campaign perfectly to me.
Here's a link, if you have the time. Recommended:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-portal/id1469999563
Biden is headed to defeat, Tom Nichols. You aren't supposed to believe your own voter suppression polls and assorted bullshit.
that was after burning personal and financial bridges to the Republican Party that sustained them and built their handsome homes over the years.
That's exactly the point: these guys got rich in the conservative movement despite a losing record. They've always been in it for the grift. Trump's victory was proof of their incompetence, and there was no way that they were going to be welcomed back into the party, so instead they took their grift to the other side.
Here’s what Sean Trende has to say:
“Even if he loses next week, it is a “NeverTrump” delusion that the old GOP coalition is going to be resurrected. The political demand isn’t there, and whomever is nominated in 2024 will likely have an agenda that more closely resembles Trump’s than Mitt Romney’s.”
For most of us, media appearances came only with a ride to the studio and free coffee. (At 30 Rock in New York, at least it was Starbucks.)
Green rooms usually the have shitty coffee- the institutional kind office managers order with the other office supplies...
There were a lot of never Trumpers 2015-16. Remember the National Review issue? Because he was predicted to be uniquely terrible. Yet most fell into line. Because power, money and peer pressure. But guess what? It came to pass.
4%, that's their focus. Find out Tuesday.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. But Hunter Biden's laptop.
Don't tell me it's not worth fightin' for
They can't help it, there's nothin' they want more
You know it's true
Everything they do
They do it for you
The Never-Trumpers revealed they are grifters by supporting Hillary in 2016, because all the True Conservatives support Democrat politicians when they apply their principles.
They were actually hoping to be able to grift on the TDS they had re-aligned themselves with afterwards, but soon found out that they are not anymore liked by the left than Trump. Jobs like that go to lefty loyalists and not quislings hoping for their 30 pieces of silver.
Starbucks coffee is awful. Its clear that anyone who praises Starbucks coffee has no idea what good coffee tastes like. There is a reason you have to put all those flavorings in it, to cover up the fact that it is made with substandard beans that are roasted until they are burnt. Also, Trump is going to win. And Nevertrumpters are asshoes. Don't trust asshoes.
I have no idea who Nichols is. The campaign consultants for the Lincoln Project (including Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson) were bankrupt and defaulting on mortgages and business loans. So, the idea these characters are trying to elect Joe Biden, a very Liberal Democrat, due to Conservative PRINCIPLE is laughable.
Like most never-trumpers fakes, they blather about "character" "honesty" and "decency" and NEVER show any decency or honesty to anyone they disagree with - especially Trump. And they never discuss policy. Why were they Republicans before? Because the R's had character and decency, and the D's didn't? Laughable. Assuming it wasn't all about the greenbacks, they supported the R's because of certain POLICIES. So what are those policies, and which ones does Trump oppose? But they refuse to say.
The Never-trumpers have ALWAYS been either dishonest or frivolous. They've been hiding their REAL reasons for opposing Trump behind a smokescreen of illogical, unconvincing Blather about "Character" and "Decency". Again, do they hate Trump because they're globalists and support wars in the middle east and appeasing China on Trade? Or it is because they support open borders? Or is it, because they're really liberal Democrats who were pretending to be "Conservative" for some reason?
I've blogged through 4 election nights so far and 2 of them turned out to be big surprises. The only ones that weren't surprising had Obama. No Obama this time.
Need you ask?
Sorry, here's the link to Trende's article.
""The Trump faithful also accused us of trying to get rich on our Never Trump status. Yes, the founders of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project are now taking in lots of donations..."
"... but that was after burning personal and financial bridges to the Republican Party that sustained them and built their handsome homes over the years."
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
The entirety of the NeverTrump "LLR" crew is that they were completely exposed as pro-democrat/pro-left liars and hacks and losers so the actual conservatives and principled republicans were no longer listening to them or hiring them so these grifters conjured up a new gig: write lies for their lefty billionaire masters and converting that change into "The Principled Conservative Who Only Agrees With Democrats And Democrat Policies And Not Those Horrible Conservative Deplorables".
It's been extremely lucrative because the lefty billionaire controlled media only hires these loser liars as their in-house "conservative republicans" (wink wink) and pays them well for their pro-dem lies all the while lefties from across the nation funnel cash into their grift organizations.
Of course, many on the left are quite wise to the grift and that is why they openly state that yes, of course, the left will make use of these hacks for now to try and get rid of OrangeManBad, but once this election is over, either way, the left will no longer have need of these loser lying hacks like Tom Nichols, Kristol, Goldberg, Hayes, Wilson, Schmidt, French, etc.
BTW, the supposedly super-duper "pro-life" David French, Jonah Goldberg and Steve Hayes of "nobody actually reads it" The Dispatch, were recently exposed as being the hired gun "fact checkers" for Facebook that led to the banning of an actual, true, pro-life from Facebook.
And then Goldberg, French and Hayes, all lied about it for days until it was fully exposed and they could no longer deny it.
That's right, these supposedly "lifelong republican"/"lifelong pro-life" "muh principles" "conservatives" are being paid by the left to help ban conservative pro-life groups.
And they lie about it.
So very, very "principled", eh?
Here's a nice recap of what the fake pro-life, actually pro-abortion/pro-dem The Dispatch hacks were up to, secretly: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/facebook-sba-list-abortion-ad
I assumed the Lincoln Project was an arm of the Clinton Foundation. It seems to operate on the same sort of principles. But I guess it's not. Instead, it's a bunch of nominal Republicans who think their "help" in getting Joe Biden elected will lead to cushy jobs in his administration, maybe even an ambassadorship or two. We'll see how that works out. There will be plenty of real Democrats jockeying for position. And why would anyone need to reward their treachery once the goal is achieved?
I think the Never Trumpers' heads are going to explode in the near future because Trump is going to pardon Edward Snowden. Glenn Greenwald's big, showy splash yesterday was offered in exchange for a Snowden pardon. Even if Trump believes that Edward Snowden did the right thing by notifying the public of the government's illegal privacy violations, he still needed something in exchange and I think its media coverage of the Hunter Biden laptop.
As an aside, I think the extreme Left supports some of Trump's foreign policy. Trump's America First policy is guided by the principles of realism and military restraint. This is as seen as a step away from the perpetual wars of choice that marred Bush 2 and Obama.
I think many Never Trumpers have a sincere belief that other things being nearly equal, we should vote for a gentleman; I don't have a female term, I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to say "lady." Knowing how to act and speak, always giving a sense of restraining ibwawkd quite a bit, having an impressive array of thoughts that are unexpressed out of politeness or statesmanship. My jokes would be: imitating the gentleman in Aristotle's Ethics: speaking slowly, deliberately, even a bit ponderously. Always consider saying nothing. Ideally a person on the big side--even your stature makes a difference. A deep voice, hit the deeper range if you have one. Again walking in a dignified manner. John Wayne may have had a bit too much of a feminine swish to his hips, which he learned from a school in LA. Sorry.
My cruder joke: ass cheeks tightly clenched.
Trump is somehow the opposite, at least to his haters. I thought in 2016 he was right on more issues than any other candidate for Pres. I'm Canadian, so I don't vote in U.S. elections.
What bright Trump supporters object to in Never Trumpers is that they mix up all this demeanour and politeness stuff with actual leadership, even if this turns out to mean knowing the precise moment to surrender gracefully to the progressives. After all, you don't want to be ostracized from all the nice parties in Washington; and what if people are mean to your kids? I'm reading Evan Thomas's book about Nixon; it's possible the whole Nixon family was hurt socially when Dick went after Ivy Leaguer/elitist Alger Hiss, and they never recovered even as evidence against Hiss mounted.
Surprise is in the eye of the beholder.
Always worth another look of the left's (Stephen Colbert's team) takedown of the lying loser NeverTrump idiots who think their grift with the left will continue until just after the election after which these idiots think they can move back to the "conservative" side and continue the grift there......
Spoiler: LOL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNvuYPpX0C0
By the end of this hilarious takedown of the incompetent Rick Wilson by Colberts team, Wilson was left in silent, red faced rage that his stupidity and "grift-iness" was so thoroughly exposed.
Sort of like "LLR-lefties" everywhere, eh?
Rick Wilson was the person who made me realize there were too many people getting rich off elections.
He was bragging- sometime well before the 2016 election - about a big party he was having and how wonderful it is to be his client, because of this party he was throwing for his clients. It really bothered me, knowing that campaign consultants have so much money and such bad taste to brag about his poshness. Is that was people send their $5 donations in to candidates for? So some consultant can brag about the bourbon and cigars he has at his party?
Then 2016 came, and the whole time he was promising something big against Trump to drop. I think it must have been the dossier. The whole time. Just wait! He's say! It's going to be a doozy.
Well, now some idiot democrats are sending him contributions. I do not even know what they think they are getting for their money. I hope they enjoy the grift.
Trump enjoys the fighting and winning. The true heroes of this war to save the USA are Admiral Rogers and his Unknown Q Clearance buddies in Military Intelligence along with the humble congressman Nunes.They are the ones who started the where we go one, we go all movement that supports President Trump.
Ann Althouse said...
I've blogged through 4 election nights so far and 2 of them turned out to be big surprises. The only ones that weren't surprising had Obama. No Obama this time.
It wasn't a US election, but the last UK election was a big surprise, too. After years of hearing that everyone in the UK regretted their Brexit vote and reports that Boris Johnson was barely holding on......he won big. No matter what the narrative had been in the UK and in the US, despite what the polls had said, the Brits really did want Brexit.
And when the left burns them...they will be standing alone on their so called values. They get what they deserve.
THe other day I had a friend insist on treating me to some Starbucks coffee after I did him a favor . . . he seemed to think so highly of the stuff, and wanted it so badly, that I went along. At least it was hot . . .
The offended amour propre (put your own marks on it) of LLR propagandists and butt-boys is to savor.
Narr
I look forward to more
"The ATLANTIC and National Review are on my "never read again" and "untouchable" lists. The STUPID was STRONG in these ones."
McCarthy is still worth reading at NR. The only time I heard of this piss-merchant Nichols was when Ace of Spades was making fun of him for something or other. The "Death of Expertise" bullshit, I think it was.
I thought the Lincoln Project idea was to show how bad Democratic Leftists were by promoting them into elective office, and letting their bad ideology be demonstrated. This would then lead to a swing back to conservative principles. As a political method, it is of course ludicrous.
These persons were in it because they crossed those bridges to conservative and Republican support into leftist ideology well before burning the bridges behind them.
Blogger Readering said...
There were a lot of never Trumpers 2015-16. Remember the National Review issue?
Remember what happened to their subscription rolls?
Another blog I read every day is Ricochet, which is subscription. I quit a couple of years ago because it was so NeverTrump. I got suspended for two days for using the term 'TDS."
There is one NeverTrumper left. There are a couple who don't like him but will vote for him.
I went back because friends are members and I joined again. It is interesting to watch the transition. They have a "like" function for posts. The NeverTrumper now gets zero "likes."
Heh. Courage for criticizing Trump. Go on CNN and be courageous. This was a cottage industry for out-of-work Deep-State minions.
If you're actually a conservative, you pretty much love every Trump policy that's been carried out other than his "trade wars".
If "conservationism" now encompasses $600/week freebies with no plan to pay anything back, then I agree. If "conservationism" now encompasses massive runaway deficits without a care in the world, you are right again. If there is room within the definition of "conservationism" for Big Gubmint Boondoggles like FoxConn, Kodak, and TikTok/Oracle, then yes, Trump is truly as "conservative" as you say. If "conservationism" now means that the executive branch can unilaterally enact a national moratorium on eviction through **checks notes** the Centers for Disease Control, then you guessed it Trump is conservative.
No political ads from any organization are as slimy as are the ads from the Lincoln Project. It's gotten to the point I can now recognize one by the rhetoric after a few seconds.
"The only ones that weren't surprising had Obama. No Obama this time."
I'm not sure which candidate wining would be the surprise. Biden is ahead in the polls, but I think everyone knows those polls are off. I won't be surprised either way. I will be either deeply disappointed or ecstatic. If Biden wins, I certainly won't cry about it, but I'll prepare for bad weather, buy more ammo, and get my valuables in order and protected. If Trump wins, I'll gear up my company, buy equipment and hire people to try and catch the coming wave.
Larry Schweikart calls these losers the "George Lincoln Rockwell" Party -- which is very funny if you know who George Lincoln Rockwell was.
I wouldn't take Nichols word for it. Even if he isn't seeing a penny, others are. And visibility can be a form of capital for those whose career depends on being seen. It can also be a substitute -- a narcotic -- for the money Nichols claims he isn't getting.
"Starbucks coffee is awful. Its clear that anyone who praises Starbucks coffee has no idea what good coffee tastes like."
This is correct.
The Lincoln Project always was a grifting project to get Democrats' money. Their online, social media presence is very left-of-center in substance and tone. They aren't espousing conservative principles or policies while chastising Trump for having the wrong temperament or bad instincts or whatever.
Their online stuff is almost indistinguishable from Woke Leftists, only with a nominal "Republican" attached to it.
French press Colombian, please.
I will thank Vijitatma DAILY after DJT defeats their faction in this election.
Self Silence of the Stupid
A Post Election Chronicle
Why celebrate Starbucks when they had access to the world's best cup of coffee?
did they do it for their own self-interest?
There is always some self interest, but was it for money? I'd say it was mostly that they were upset that the vulgar Trump crashed their private party and told them to play outdoors.
"did they do it for their own self-interest?" Never-Trumpers may have thought they'd be rewarded with offers from all the outlets that would love to run "See! Even conservatives hate Trump" stories, yet the offers don't seem to have been forthcoming.
Although it's impossible to know another's motivation, I suspect much of it started as a way to retain the illusion of being an Important Person, Someone Others Listen Too. But having started down the never-Trump path, it seems there is no road back.
One would hope at least one never-Trumper would at least acknowledge, "Look at what Pres. Trump has done with judicial appointments!," or, "Look at what he accomplished in the middle East- Arab countries beginning to recognize Israel (and thus implicitly admitting that it has a right to exist), or, control of the USA's southern border.
But they can't, or won't. And it is this failure to acknowledge that Pres. Trump has accomplished anything (and especially when one considers the alternative!) that makes them both pathetic and risible, but, mostly just irrelevant.
did they do it for their own self-interest?
There is always some self interest, but was it for money? I'd say it was mostly that they were upset that the vulgar Trump crashed their private party and told them to play outdoors.
I think they locked themselves into a position by labeling themselves NeverTrump. Never means never, no backing down without massive loss of face. So they have no choice but to plow ahead and try to prove they were right, country be damned.
Whether they are making money off it is besides the point. If they still get a paycheck for political punditry, then they are making money off it.
tom nichols was? a professor at the war college, along with john schindler, who went toobin, before there was such a thing,
"... but that was after burning personal and financial bridges to the Republican Party that sustained them and built their handsome homes over the years."
Jesus, keep digging. How clueless can you get?
Some NeverTrumpers are genuinely against Trump for personal reasons. They don't like his character. Fine. Some of these NeverTrumpers are conservatives who've nevertheless come to the conclusion that with Trump they can at least get some of their agenda enacted or protected and reluctantly support his reelection because the alternative is far worse.
But if you've called yourself conservative and urge people to vote Democrat now, then you were never probably conservative in the first place and that was a grift, too. People like Jennifer Rubin have demonstrated that they were never conservative to begin with - they've always been opportunists. If personal dislike for the president makes you easily disregard your principles at ever turn, then they weren't really your principles, were they? They were just convenient positions.
Plus, many Republican consultants were shut out of the Trump train because they were grifters to begin with - that's the main source of their NeverTrumpism. Trump people knew these people were frauds - they'd take the Republicans' money and run bad campaigns and be all too happy to do it again the next cycle. Now they've eke out a living in this NeverTrump niche (or try to), but it won't last because Trump will be out of there eventually and they won't be welcome back to the GOP and the left will have no further use for them. No one should have use for them now.
Readering said...
There were a lot of never Trumpers 2015-16. Remember the National Review issue? Because he was predicted to be uniquely terrible. Yet most fell into line. Because power, money and peer pressure. But guess what? It came to pass.
I think I see the problem here: Readering has no principles, and so can not understand anyone who does.
I was NeverTrump in 2015-2016. Once Trump won the GOP nomination I pretty much tuned out for a while. When I started getting back in in the Fall, I would trash Hillary, but never defend Trump.
I voted for myself in that election.
Then Trump won.
And Trump actually governed as he said he would govern. And even things he supported that I disagreed with, often he turned out to be right, with me wrong. (His election caused a severe drop in the number of people coming here illegally. Which lead to an immediate rise in income for the American "working class". Guess current immigration levels really are a problem in more ways than just "respect the law".)
So now he has my full throated support, because he earned it.
But Readering can't understand that. Because for Readering, politics is about getting power for his sort, nothing else
Remember, the Lincoln Project and all the other NeverTrump commentators absolutely want Trump to win on Tuesday. 100%. If Trump loses, they lose all relevance, because their only purpose is to criticize Trump. They have no constituency or ideology of their own, and no one else will need tame establishment "Republicans" after Trump is gone.
D.D. Driver said...
Me: If you're actually a conservative, you pretty much love every Trump policy that's been carried out other than his "trade wars".
If "conservationism" now encompasses $600/week freebies with no plan to pay anything back, then I agree.
The Federal & State gov'ts acted to stop a national emergency in a way that hammered people's livelihoods. Gov't paying limited recompense to people for harms caused by gov't action is pretty conservative, yes.
If "conservationism" now encompasses massive runaway deficits without a care in the world, you are right again.
Do refresh my mind. Who was the last GOP President noted for his complete avoidance of "massive runaway deficits"?
If there is room within the definition of "conservationism" for Big Gubmint Boondoggles like FoxConn, Kodak, and TikTok/Oracle
What is your whining obsession with TikTok? Are you a 13 year old girl?
The Communist Chinese Government should not be allowed to own any social media platform in America. That's a perfectly conservative belief.
So, please tells us the total $$ amount of the "Big Gubmint Boondoggles like FoxConn, Kodak". Then compare it to Solyendra, for measurement purposes.
Note: I did not say "Trump's a conservative". He's not. He's a Jacksonian.
He's a Jacksonian who has brought us more honest Courts, massive regulatory reform, fought to restore due process and free speech, and fought for America's interests overseas.
If you have a problem with that, you're not conservative. If you think Trump's lapses are more important than that, then you're not a conservative, and never were
The NeverTrumpers are just a reflection of the ongoing political re-alignment we're seeing in the US. The educated, coastal elites are consolidating along with middling- to upper-middle bourgeois while a populist movement swells among the unlettered masses. The defining factor is the tribalism of the educated clerisy pushing non-clerisy to band together as a non-urban political bloc. On the GOP side, the shadow of the Rockefeller Republicans in the Northeast is shifting toward the college educated socialists because they share the same urban milieu and the same college educated scruples.
Meanwhile, those who work with their hands or don't work at all are congealing into a new version of the Republican party. If Hispanics and blacks turn out for Trump as much as the polls say they are, we'll know the realignment is truly underway and it will be dicey avoiding a hot civil war as the clerisy resents its loss of status and power.
Readering: "There were a lot of never Trumpers 2015-16. Remember the National Review issue?"
LOL
NeverTrump constituted about 1% of the republican base in 2016 and constitutes even less now.
But NeverTrump does still constitute about 95% of all media/writing slots for historically "conservative" roles/magazines/TV which makes morons like readering believe they are a "big" group.
During his reelection primary campaign, Trump shattered ALL records for party support for an incumbent running for reelection.
But only ALL of them.
I sure hope readering is tossing some cash over to Rick Wilson and crew. It's the best of use of democratical campaign cash that I can think of.......
The Lincoln Project folks are running ads against Republican senators as well as Trump.
Sounds like a Democrat operation doesn't it?
Win or lose, Trump has helped uncover the Dem moles in the Republican Party.
Real American: "Plus, many Republican consultants were shut out of the Trump train because they were grifters to begin with - that's the main source of their NeverTrumpism. Trump people knew these people were frauds - they'd take the Republicans' money and run bad campaigns and be all too happy to do it again the next cycle. Now they've eke out a living in this NeverTrump niche (or try to), but it won't last because Trump will be out of there eventually and they won't be welcome back to the GOP and the left will have no further use for them. No one should have use for them now."
Stuart Stevens, Katie Packer, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, Nicole Wallace, et al, are perfect examples of this.
Perfect.
Real American: "Plus, many Republican consultants were shut out of the Trump train because they were grifters to begin with - that's the main source of their NeverTrumpism. Trump people knew these people were frauds - they'd take the Republicans' money and run bad campaigns and be all too happy to do it again the next cycle. Now they've eke out a living in this NeverTrump niche (or try to), but it won't last because Trump will be out of there eventually and they won't be welcome back to the GOP and the left will have no further use for them. No one should have use for them now."
Stuart Stevens, Katie Packer, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, Nicole Wallace, et al, are perfect examples of this.
Perfect.
Corn Hole Republicans
I was in Rancho Cucamonga and was coming off an epic celebration at the Cask And Cleaver where the young, mainly Hispanic kids were delirious in joy. All they wanted was Trump and legalization and they got it.
We’re all going back Tuesday. The kids still work there and now their friends dig the Trumpster. It is glorious. It is America.
"As for the Never Trumpers... did they do it for their own self-interest?"
Partly.
But, like Althouse abstaining, they also did it for their own self-image.
To Hillary, we were "deplorables." To Joe, we're "Chumps." To us, Hillary sold us out with her homebrew email server and all the pay-to-play donations to the Clinton Foundation. Joe's been selling us out for 47-years with his influence pedaleling via his brothers and kids.
Maybe Nichols is trying to suppress the dawning revelation that he isn't a big man in the Lincoln Project. As a little-known print guy, wasn't he just window-dressing for the campaign consultants who get a cut of the media buys?
The thing about NeverTrump is that the National Review conservative Establishment guys and the Bush-McCain politico types aren't exactly on the same page. A lot of the NR characters now cautiously approve of Trump. The Bush-McCain types have gotten perches in the liberal media in exchange for attacking Trump. The old Rockefeller Republicans have died off or become Democrats. The Kristol/Bulwark gang are a lot closer to the Bush-McCain-Romney crew than to their sometime brothers at NR.
I call dibs on "Crystal Bulwark" for the name of my band/fantasy novel/first-born daughter.
If "conservationism" now encompasses $600/week freebies with no plan to pay anything back, then I agree. If "conservationism" now encompasses massive runaway deficits without a care in the world,
The Democrat is now blaming Trump for deficits. Self awareness is not your strong suit.
The Lincoln Project chose the wrong name. They should be the P.T. Barnum Project. They're taking all their donations from Democrats. As P.T. Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute."
“Trump enjoys the fighting and winning. The true heroes of this war to save the USA are Admiral Rogers and his Unknown Q Clearance buddies in Military Intelligence along with the humble congressman Nunes.They are the ones who started the where we go one, we go all movement that supports President Trump.”
Agreed. But I have never quite gotten the connection between a Q clearance and military intelligence. I had a Q clearance throughout most of the 1980s. It was for access to DOE research laboratories, most often Sandra, where they were designing nuclear devices. Just looked it up in Wkipedia, and it apparently hasn’t changed.
Q clearance or Q access authorization is the Department of Energy (DOE) security clearance required to access Top Secret Restricted Data, Formerly Restricted Data, and National Security Information, as well as Secret Restricted Data. Restricted Data (RD) is defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 and covers nuclear weapons and related materials. The lower-level L clearance is sufficient for access to Secret Formerly Restricted Data (FRD) and National Security Information, as well as Confidential Restricted Data, Formerly Restricted Data, and National Security Information.[1][2] Access to Restricted Data is only granted on a need-to-know basis to personnel with appropriate clearances.
A Q Clearance is equivalent to a United States Department of Defense Top Secret clearance.[2] "...the Q access authorization corresponds to the background investigation and administrative determination similar to what is completed by other agencies for a Top Secret National Security Information access clearance."[2]
Anyone possessing an active Q clearance is always categorized as holding a National Security Critical-Sensitive position (sensitivity Level 3).[3] Additionally, most Q-cleared incumbents will have collateral responsibilities designating them as Level 4: National Security Special-Sensitive personnel.[4] With these two designations standing as the highest-risk sensitivity levels, occupants of these positions hold extraordinary accountability, having the potential to cause "exceptionally grave" or "inestimable" damage to the national security of the United States[citation needed].
I should note that I was probably at the bottom there, never having been closer than maybe 20 feet from any classified material (which was very obvious because I dealt with their computers, and whenever hard drives were mounted containing classified material, the entire computer room was subject to a strobing red light).
I don't think NeverTrumpers did it for their self-interest.
But, I also don't think they properly identified what was in their best interests.
"As for the Never Trumpers... did they do it for their own self-interest?"
Well, motives are always messy and complex, while "self-interest" both covers and obscures a lot of that complexity but shoving it under a single label. At the most basic level, I suspect that for many of the Nevers, the basic motivator is that they just find Trump personally gross and intellectually superficial. That's hardly a crazy view.
But that does not explain why, in rejecting Trump, the Never Trumpers have so eagerly embraced lefty positions that they were denouncing only yesterday. Some (like Max Boot) were worse than others on that score. None of the Nevers would ever have signed up for a return to appeasement (the Iran deal, coddling China's imperial ambitions, etc.), or the assault on basic American freedoms (suppress hate speech NOW, the First Amendment is a racist tool, no more justifying anti-LBTQ+ discrimination behind religious BS, the cure-all for what ails America is the right kind of racial discrimination, etc.). Yet that's where so many have landed. I think that was inevitable -- it just came with the move to a new political and intellectual home.
The more prominent ones (Bret S at the NYT, Kristol, David French, Jonah Goldberg, etc.), have tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to split the difference. For them, I think ego had a lot to do with moving to Never-land. Just couldn't stand being pushed aside by such a pathetic low-brow creep (in their view) as Trump. But having focused on his personal deficits so intently, those Nevers brushed aside the fact that (i) Trump has pursued policies, often quite successfully, that are classic Republican/conservative in substance, and (ii) the choice politically was always between him and Her and now between him and Team Slow Joe, where the alternative, in terms of policies, was bad (Her) and now worse (Team Slow Joe).
In some many ways, Trump's legacy (win or lose next week) has been to fundamentally transform the American political landscape -- pulling off what Obama tried but failed to do. He transformed the parties -- the Reps are now the blue collar party of the working stiffs of the middle-American heartland, while the Dems are the bi-coastal party for the elites at the top and their opposites at the bottom segment. And, for many, many Americans, TDS has so impacted basic institutions dominated by the lefties -- media, Hollywood, academia, pro sports, the DS 'swamp' -- as to have discredited them beyond repair. I think the Nevers are very conflicted about that, since they have such a dim view of the working stiffs of the middle-American heartland and in terms of personal style clearly identify with the other team.
Where was the Lincoln project candidate to contest the primaries? Isn't that what the conscience of a party does - run a candidate of principle to give a voice to the rank and file? The absence of a candidate is full proof of the griftiness of the Lincoln project.
Also, readering is stupid.
So we cannot hold Xim accountable.
The basic question is "What are your principles?"
If you claim that your principles are conservative, then we would expect that they would remain conservative even if Never Trump. That's not generally what we have seen. There are some principled Never Trumpers who approve of many things that the President did but think he, personally, is a destructive person who has to be removed from the office for the good of the country. I can disagree with this and still appreciate it.
Then we have the Never Trumpers who seem to think that the best way to advance conservatism to give all reins of power to Democrats so they can do whatever they want, a sort of burn it all down and start over approach. There may be principles involved there, but if so the holder is either an idiot or a high level psychic. Most likely the "principles" are negotiable.
And we have also seen the Never Trumper who was a conservative in good standing at some point in the past, but now holds every non-conservative position possible and yet still claims to be a conservative. These are pure charlatans or, to be more accurate, Democrats.
Whenever there is money to be made, there will be phonies making money off it. I'm not sure why we would think that political commentators would somehow be the exception. If anything I would think them more likely to lie.
The Democrat is now blaming Trump for deficits. Self awareness is not your strong suit.
LOL. Ideological consistency is a personal curse that may make me an asshole, but certainly not a Democrat. There are still some of us weirdos out here that have the capacity to hate Biden and still at the same time call bullshit on the notion that Trump is some paragon of conservatism.
Trump is only "conservative" if you ignore his record. Trump likes his cronies as much as Obama loved his. He uses his phone and his pen the same way Obama did. He shows as much concern for fiscal responsibility as Obama did.
If "conservationism" now encompasses $600/week freebies with no plan to pay anything back, then I agree.
In an unprecedented crisis, what gets done isn't likely to be precedented, traditional, or conservative. Not recognizing that has been a big problem for conservatives over the years. The question is whether the emergency policies will continue after the crisis has passed.
Movement conservatism passed away about the time Kevin Williamson was rejoicing over the coming collapse of the welfare state, and telling small towns to just die.
Richard Dolan at 12:58 PM
Perfectly summarized.
So, please tells us the total $$ amount of the "Big Gubmint Boondoggles like FoxConn, Kodak". Then compare it to Solyendra, for measurement purposes.
So Obama is your benchmark for "conservatism"? Odd choice, but okay.
Solyndra- $535 million loan guarantee.
Kodak-$765 million loan guarantee.
Gov't paying limited recompense to people for harms caused by gov't action is pretty conservative, yes.
$600 a week is "limited recompense"? This is $31,200 annualized. And these are the extra benefits on top of the normal benefits. The benefits were so large that workers refused to return to work because it would cost them more to earn an honest living than to stay at home and collect Trump Checks.
In a society that had its priorities straight, Tom Nichols would be the kind of thing you don't discuss in polite company; he is what you accidentally step on when walking outside, and when you get home you notice something stinks.
They all expect to be welcomed back with open arms and big contracts after Trump loses. They view any hiccup in compensation at this time as an investment in their futures. They are grifters, pure and simple.
More likely, they will learn what Benedict Arnold learned when he moved to England--nobody likes a turncoat because it is a sign of poor character, and nobody trusts them because if they did it once they will do it again.
Rick Wilson, of the Confederate battle flag cooler with "The South will rise again" sticker. Founding member of the "P.T. Barnum Project." Grifting for dollars from their Democrat masters.
NeverTrump is emotional, instinctive, visceral: Trump doesn't seem dignified or worthy or presidential. But NeverTrump isn't really about Trump. If you don't like the "swamp" - the existing Washington elites - you can get over your hesitancy and support Trump. If you like those elites, if you've spent your whole life trying to become a part of the elite, you are really going to hate Trump.
From there, it's just a matter of people doing what they do. Journalists gotta journalize. Grifters gotta grift. If you are a campaign consultant, you consult campaigns, and if no campaign wants you, you start your own. It may look phony to outsiders, but so did McCain's and Romney's campaigns. If you're on the inside, you have to believe (or at least believe you believe).
D.D. Driver said:
$600 a week is "limited recompense"? This is $31,200 annualized. And these are the extra benefits on top of the normal benefits. The benefits were so large that workers refused to return to work because it would cost them more to earn an honest living than to stay at home and collect Trump Checks.
The $600/week was only good until August. Not renewed. It did have a drag on return to work, but only temporarily.
Ann, I'm not sure I can be surprised by this election. There's a lot that I could believe: Trump victory, Biden victory, election chaos, calls for open insurrection, media sources trying to suppress the results, pollsters committing mass suicide, an assassination attempt against either candidate, Biden literally keeling over and dying at the podium, and so much more. It's all believable. Such is 2020.
Okay, if Kanye wins the election that will be a surprise.
D.D. Driver said...
Kodak-$765 million loan guarantee.
Wait. Are you seriously trying to say that it's "un conservative" for the Federal Gov't to ever give a loan guarantee?
That's special.
Care to tell us what the objection is too this specific Kodak loan guarantee?
Gov't paying limited recompense to people for harms caused by gov't action is pretty conservative, yes.
$600 a week is "limited recompense"?
Oh, wait, you're bitching about the fact that the Feds increased unemployment payments given to people who were unemployed because their job was wiped out by Federal / State order?
it case you missed it, sh!t for brains: there WEREN'T any jobs for them to take instead, because the entire F'in economy was shut down.
Leaving aside whether Trump is to blame for the high deficits and high UX payments (there's this thing called Congress. You might have heard of it?), THIS is the best you can do for "why a 'real conservative' would oppose Trump"?
Boy, it must suck to be you
In a war, the enemy is defeated. Traitors fare much, much worse.
Traitors like Nichols - and the rest of the NeverTrumpers - would be wise to remember that.
I was in Rancho Cucamonga and was coming off an epic celebration at the Cask And Cleaver
Hah. Great place. Every time we fly down for the drags at Pomona, we stop in.
"BTW, the supposedly super-duper "pro-life" David French, Jonah Goldberg and Steve Hayes of "nobody actually reads it" The Dispatch, were recently exposed as being the hired gun "fact checkers" for Facebook that led to the banning of an actual, true, pro-life from Facebook."
When they were at National Review, these Never-trumper clowns were getting money from Google. They denied it, and then when it proven true, they claimed it didn't matter. Of course, that's why they all defend Google no matter what they do to Conservatives. Yeah, its all "Muh free enterprise". I especially like it when Super-Christian Mr. French spouts bullshit about Joe Biden being the Pro-life, pro-Christian candidate!
What a bunch of frauds. And i laughed at the "at least we had starbucks" line. None of the cool kids go to starbucks unless they have to. If you think its some great sophisticated upscale coffee shop, you're a pretentious goober. There's nothing wrong with liking Starbucks but its now McCoffee.
"French press Colombian, please."
Or the 'fine Columbian.'
That works too.
> Trump is only "conservative" if you ignore his record. Trump likes his cronies as much as Obama loved his. He uses his phone and his pen the same way Obama did. He shows as much concern for fiscal responsibility as Obama did.
... Trump is NO TRUE SCOTSMAN
And Trump brought in the dreamers as Obama did, and passed Obamacare as Obama did, and gave billion to Iran as Obama did, and guns to the Mexicans cartels as Obama did, and made the Little Sisters of the Poor fund abortions as Obama did, and appointed Elena Keegan as Obama did...
NeverTrump/Dems are laughably stupid at concern trolling
Nichols is the "listen to experts" guy
NT are waiting to for their cognitive dissonance to be validated
and waiting...
and waiting...
and waiting...
There, see I told you so
NeverTrumpers like Will are simply being who they were all along
Wait. Are you seriously trying to say that it's "un conservative" for the Federal Gov't to ever give a loan guarantee?
Wait are you saying its only objectionable when it's Solyndra?
Leaving aside whether Trump is to blame for the high deficits and high UX payments (there's this thing called Congress. You might have heard of it?), THIS is the best you can do for "why a 'real conservative' would oppose Trump"?
You're conveniently forgetting using the Centers for Disease Control to institute a national ban on evictions. I would love to hear the "conservative" case for that. I'll get the popcorn ready.
To paraphrase Barry Goldwater: in your heart you know you are completely full of shit.
The $600/week was only good until August. Not renewed. It did have a drag on return to work, but only temporarily.
Did Trump not restore a 400/week additional benefit unilaterally with his "phone and his pen"?
He meant at least it wasn't office coffee machine coffee. But he's a rube, and the funny thing is he thinks the rest of us are.
If politicians are the worst, what do you call their garbage political consultants and operatives? You can at least elect a politician's opponent, but as long as these motherfuckers can con a little cash from our nouveau oligarchs, they get mindshare. I thought Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism was decent, but what a pathetic nerd he's turned out to be. He's not fit to carry his mom's dirty blue dress.
Did Trump not restore a 400/week additional benefit unilaterally with his "phone and his pen"?
No
He enables states to pay an extra 300 while suggesting they add 100. This was limited by the funded amount between the states.
Here in Ca it lasted 6 weeks..with only 300 added.
We are still under many significant restrictions and my business is at 20% of pre covid levels.
Without family i'd be fucked.
D.D. Driver said...
Me: Wait. Are you seriously trying to say that it's "un conservative" for the Federal Gov't to ever give a loan guarantee?
Wait are you saying its only objectionable when it's Solyndra?
No, shit for brains, I'm not. Which is why I asked what the loan guarantee was for. Which I note you didn't answer.
I guess that means it was a perfectly reasonable one.
Also, no answer to the "which was the last GOP President w/o massive deficits?"
Let's help you show off your imbecility a bit more: who's the last GOP President to have done a better job on regulatory reform?
Sooooo, YES. Splitters, Gave up on NR in 2015. I'd bet the Democrats won't have anything to do with them, either.
I’ve about had my fill of “conservatives” anyways. We’ve reached a point where on the one hand we’ve got a guy that lurves him some America and has proven it or a corrupt, evil, senile bigot. I’m going with the pro America guy.
Clearing away the rot the republicans and democrats have dropped on this country will take decades if at all and it’s going to take real men who have had enough of the corrupt political class including “conservatives”.
I’ve about had my fill of “conservatives” anyways. We’ve reached a point where on the one hand we’ve got a guy that lurves him some America and has proven it or a corrupt, evil, senile bigot. I’m going with the pro America guy.
Clearing away the rot the republicans and democrats have dropped on this country will take decades if at all and it’s going to take real men who have had enough of the corrupt political class including “conservatives”.
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