I invite Joe Biden to pledge to follow this pathway to putting Barack Obama back in the White House. By pledging, he may improve his chance of getting elected. Who knows? The Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dying Wish must come true. The vacancy on the Supreme Court must remain open. I won't spend time on that step, because that's what everyone's already talking about. So let's jump forward to the new things:
First, President Joe Biden nominates Vice President Kamala Harris for the Supreme Court. He pledged to pick a black woman. Pledge kept. Now, he has the distinction of choosing not only the first black woman for the Court but also the first Asian person.
The choice would also meet a long-discussed goal of putting someone with political experience on the Court. This is something Bill Clinton wanted to do. In reminiscing — just a few days ago — about his choice of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, he openly talked about his original preference for someone political (specifically Mario Cuomo). Trump has shown the same interest when he put Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton on his Supreme Court list.
When Harris is confirmed, she will resign from the vice presidency, which will give President Biden the power to appoint the new Vice President. He can pick Barack Obama. Then all Biden needs to do is resign. He's feeling too elderly to serve. Oops! Thought I could do it, but turns out I'm getting weaker by the day. Whatever. Or don't even surprise us. Tell us now that you'll follow this path. Then, when you resign, you'll just be doing what you promised, keeping your pledge.
And don't tell me Barack Obama is term-limited. As Supreme Court nominees like to say, you read the text and you say what it means, not what you wish it would mean. Here's the text of the 22nd Amendment: "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice...." There's no point in this scheme where Barack Obama is elected to the office of the President more than twice. He's appointed Vice President, and he assumes the presidency not by another election but by the resignation of President Biden.
ADDED: Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers." Hmm. Do you think so?
IN THE COMMENTS: tcross asks "What's in it for Obama?" Well, for one thing, he gets to appoint the next Vice President. And then he's free to resign whenever it works best for him — so that he will have appointed the next President! He can restore what will be proclaimed "civility." Make us feel like we're good people again. Pat us on the head for behaving better. Make concerts in the White House great again. Pose with world leaders. Win another Nobel Prize.
ALSO: tcross's comment had more to it: "What's in it for Obama? It might get him off the hook for the huge advance he got for the book he has yet to produce." And the really cool thing is, then Obama could win the Nobel Prize for Literature! He won the Nobel Peace Prize without doing anything for it. He should win the Nobel Prize for Literature for figuring out the most high-flown, brilliant way of NOT writing a book. Conceptual art, blah blah blah. Stunning!!!
September 22, 2020
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1 – 200 of 225 Newer› Newest»Hahahhaha. I really think Obama likes being ex President. All that money and nothing really required of him.
Way to Clintonparse™.
What's in it for Obama? It might get him off the hook for the huge advance he got for the book he has yet to produce.
If this interpretation of the 22nd amendment holds, in theory a president could serve for an unlimited number of terms; so long as they had willing accomplices in the elected President. Is that the future of American politics? Popular politicians running unofficially, with the official legal candidates mere ciphers to get around the Constitution? Joe Biden would certainly be a good fit to be the first of such ciphers.
That's quite a flight of fancy and two very ambitious people have to sacrifice themselves to pull it off. So, no, it's not a realistic way for Obama to become president again.
But I thought there was a hard cap of 10 years (which would have limited this plan to the second half of Biden's presidency), but it turns out I remembered wrong. I think I was tripped up by that 2-year clause, and carelessly read it as a maximum of elected twice plus 2.
So I learned something.
Althouse is fantasizing again!!
Yes, Biden should pledge do this. It would be fun. But it would confuse not only Slow Joe, but his voting base, too.
Question: if the Senate stays GOP, wouldn't they foil this by not confirming Kammy to SCOTUS?
Don't give them any ideas Ann. Who am I kidding, they've already gamed this out. The one problem with this scenario? Obama's on easy street and doesn't want to work that hard.
I see a third term for Trump.
Biden can't just name Obama as veep. He has to go through the Senate, like Ford did for Nixon when Agnew resigned.
But I suspect the D's will give it a try if they get the Senate.
At the same time, we should begin calling the president "El Jefe", since it will cement our status as a banana republic.
Yay, I was right!
I’ve actually suggested the same thing in these very comments.
Hmm. I was going to take that exact route, but I was not sure Barack could simply be placed into the Presidency. It would then have to be a 1 term Presidency.
I don't see it. He's not that into work. 8 years of being President is enough. Plus, he gets paid much more for just sitting there being Obama. Plus Michelle does not want to be back in the White House. She also gets paid much more for just being Michelle!
That said, we often talk about watching Leftist heads blow up. If this were to happen, I do believe the entire right would have a harmonious head blow, myself included. Not sure I could take all the swooning that would occur.
The other thing is that no one, and I mean no one on either side, wants to see Kamala Harris on the Supreme Court. Her own party couldn't stand her when it was actually up to electing her. No one likes Kamala except her husband. And we haven't interviewed him yet.
I don't know why it would be necessary to do this. Obama is the real presidential candidate anyway; he has been calling all the shots. Biden can just resign and let Kamala become President and she takes all her direction from Obama. She was his candidate to begin with and I think this was the plan all along.
Yet another hypothetical scenario that only proves and reinforces what everyone already knows, that being Biden WILL NOT go all 4 years if elected.
Soft. Coup.
TDS being demonstrated in real time. Plan is pretty effin convoluted. But is could work.
And when Biden does it, he’ll call it the Althouse Plan.
Okay, but what about 2024? This only works for 1 term.
Here's the text of the 12th Amendment:
"But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
All Trump has to say to rally his base,
"If Biden is elected he will nominate Obama to the SCOTUS and you will never, ever be free of him."
Bam. 50-100 million rabid Americans.
I dislike Obama not because he isn't a great speaker and politician, but because he was actually a poor president glossed over because he was likeable. He accomplished jack shit and many of his major initiatives have been shown to have absolutely awful outcomes. (Libya? Anyone? Citizen assassination without oversight? Anyone?)
But between Trump and Obama, never before have two back-to-back Presidents inspired such rabid hatred.
Why would Kamala give up being POTUS for Slow Joe? She just has to wait a few months.
He'd need to have a majority in the Senate to get Kamala Harris confirmed.
In principle he'd need the same to get Barack Obama confirmed as VP, but there's a work-around for that: The House of Representatives could select Barack Obama as Speaker of the House. In the absence of a Vice President, the Speaker is next in the line of succession.
Here's the text of the Babylon Bee:
Genius Trump Nominates Joe Biden To Supreme Court Forcing Dems To Accuse Him Of Sexual Assault
Lots of folks have posited this scenario. Heard it yesterday morning on local talk radio. Read it a couple times this morning on my FB feed.
I can’t see Harris wanting to be sidelined on a court appointment.
But legal.
And maybe also magical thinking.
Yeah, but if Biden gets elected on the promise of the second coming of Barry H Obama, won’t that be the same as Obama getting elected again through is stalking horse? I think they both have to hold their tongues until after the election.
It would have been much simpler to ask Michelle to run for Vice President. Also, I'm getting the sense that there's not a lot of love lost between Biden and Obama. Just fantasizing, but doesn't it seem likely that Biden built up a lot of resentment during 8 years of being considered a dummy by Obama and his staff?
It's funny.
Years ago, I said to my Dem Mother in law, "You know who would make a good President? Joe Biden. But that will never happen"
And now I think it could happen, but now he'll no longer make a good president. His best days are definitely behind him, bless his heart.
That might bridge the enthusiasm gap, but it requires Democrats to win the Senate, and i don't see that.
For that to happen, the GOP would also need to lose control of the Senate. The appointment of Obama as VP would have to be confirmed.
Also, even if Biden replaces RGB with Harris (a brilliant political move, if he can pull it off), that doesn’t overcome the 5-4 GOP majority on the court. Who knows what insanity Roberts would pull out of his hat to support or deny the appointment of Obama.
Weirder would be that Biden resigns and Obama’s assertion to president is challenged. The SCOTUS rules Obama is ineligible, having been elected twice. And, Nancy Pelosi becomes president because no VP had been named by Obama.
All Hail Nancy, First of Her Name.
This may be how the Second Civil War begins.
No. No more Obamas, Bushes, Clintons or Kennedys. And once Trump has finished his service as President, no more Trumps either.
You'd have to get Obama and -- more importantly, Kamala -- to go along with this. Obama has his Rich White Man big house and his 40 million bucks. Why dive back into the DC shithole?
And Kamala can almost taste the leather upholstery on the chair behind the Resolute desk. Is she willing to say good-bye to that ... forever? "For the good of the country" is no argument that Kamala ever listened to before. More like, "Kiss my black/Hindu ass two times, Barack!"
Also: to the best of my knowledge, you haven't articulated a rationale behind the assertion that the seat formerly occupied by RBG MUST remain open. Unless ... you're being mischevious, and you're kinda putting us on, to see what happens ...
Here's my mischief: the US has never had an Afro-american president. And if Kamala manages to weasel her way to the Oval Office, we still won't have an Afro-american president. How long must the descendants of American Black slaves wait before one of their own is sitting in the White House?
The Twelfth Amendment states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President." Since Obama is ineligible to the office of President, since he was elected twice, he is ineligible to the office of Vice President.
I have two M1 Garlands and a M1 Carbine. A buddy of mine asked me a few weeks ago if I’d be willing to sell him one of them. In jest, I said I wanted to wait and see if I needed them after the election. Now it isn’t in jest. I think this would drive some on the right to start ‘peacefully protesting’ and that will spill over and across the land.
Slick!
Diabolical but slick nonetheless!
Putin would be proud of you, Althouse.
The 25th Amendment doesn't say the VP nominee must meet the original Constitutional eligibility. AOC could be nominated. A foreigner could be. Someone goofed that up.
Couple this idea with the perception of a rigged election. Can you imagine?
I thought preferred boring, Professor?
First and foremost, this would signify a complete Biden surrender to Trump.
And where exactly is Obama's agency in this scheme? Is Obama just here just to do Joe Biden's bidding?
Wouldn't Obama himself have to make the case for this scheme, cementing the underlying promise?
Would Obama openly participate in something so unseemly?
If there's a chance Obama the ex-president might get a free-pass on Obama-gate, it's be a near certainty there'd be calls for his impeachment investigation in a "third term".
The Constitution declares that the US President must be a natural-born citizen. However, what jurisdiction enforces that legal requirement?
There is no situation in which the Judiciary can enforce the requirement. After all, the issue does not become moot until the person in question is inaugurated as a new President.
The jurisdiction for that issue is the Electorate. For each Presidential candidate, the Electorate is supposed to make sure that the Constitutional requirement is enforced.
That is why the Government is obligated to provide to the Electorate its best evidence about any candidate's birth circumstances. In particular, that is why Barack Obama's long-form birth certificate should have been provided to the Electorate before the 2008 election.
Likewise, the Electorate is supposed to enforce the Constitutional restriction against more than two terms for any President. In particular, if Joe Biden indicates that he will follow this Althouse scheme, then the Electorate should vote against him on the Constitutional grounds that he intends to violate the US Constitution.
It's disturbing how moderate Democrats are desperately seeking a solution to the shit storm that is the current state of their party. There's gotta be a loophole somewhere, right?
The judiciary is the last institution you assholes haven't completely wrecked. That backstop, the keystone to eternal domination is The Supremes majority and you see it slipping away. Since you seem to be in a bargaining mood right now here's a proposal: if the GOP installs their judicial nominee how about you lefties take a knee this election cycle? Trump and the GOP will restore economic prosperity, finish up world peace, round up the Soros anarchy, and root out all the government leftie bad actors for you? You'll have four years of benefits while your political dead wood dies off and you go find some fresh, moderate leftie faces you can worship again...
I'd take it if I were you. You know you can't trust those polls...
Obama led to Trump, so what would be different the second time?
Is Putinesque a word?
Biden is still the wooden badger in this scenario...
This idea requires Joe Biden to be the kind of person who would voluntarily relinquish a position of immense power and prestige, which seems unimaginable as he has never before demonstrated anything close to that level of self-sacrifice for anyone or anything. And he'd start with the Presidency? What would he get out of doing this?
But if we're going to play this game, why not have him appoint Bill Clinton or Hillary? or Michelle Obama? Or Andrew Cuomo, someone who could get a head start on running for President in 2024. Why would it be Barack Obama, who, I am confident, has zero interest in giving up the incredibly lucrative ventures he currently pursues. Whoever it would be, we'd get a rerun of "selected not elected"...everything old is new again.
Does Michelle Obama approve a third term for Barry? I thought she was done with politics.
Something similar worked for Putin:
"On 24 September 2011, while speaking at the United Russia party congress, Medvedev announced that he would recommend the party nominate Putin as its presidential candidate. He also revealed that the two men had long ago cut a deal to allow Putin to run for president in 2012.[118] This switch was termed by many in the media as "Rokirovka", the Russian term for the chess move "castling". Medvedev said he himself would be ready to perform "practical work in the government"."
The Supreme Court could just find all the pertinent constitutional amendments unconstitutional, who is going to stop them in a separation of power sense? Possibly congress would pass a law removing the court's power to claim unconstitutionality of law.
Haha. I'd love to see the attempt. Because Donald Trump is supposed to be the Fascist Caudillo.
The 12th Amendment would seem to present a significant hurdle.
This strategy has nothing to do with Ginsburg.
They can pull it anytime with Breyer, as long as they have the votes in the Senate to confirm.
They'll need 49 + Romney.
Perhaps the American people should ask themselves what's so great about the Progressive agenda that it requires Democrats to control every branch of government to make it viable?
Nice scheme, but I don't think Kamala would go along. Maybe she would if the Chief Justice slot were open, but I think she wants to be president like a hungry dog wants its chow.
Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers."
We don't feel no ways tard...
"At the same time, we should begin calling the president "El Jefe", since it will cement our status as a banana republic."
With all of the squabbling that will ensue it will be a banana split republic.
I was actually giving some thought to voting for the Libertarian chick because she was bit by a rabid bat but you have convinced me that would be a mistake.
Doesn’t it depend on what “elected” means? It has several meanings.
But AA is mocking Biden for his sham campaign where we know he is not the real candidate, and democrats are trying to pull a fast one.
Obama basically took his second term off and concentrated on being a celebrity.
Why would he want a third term?
Duty to the country he loves?
HAHAHAHAHA
I’ve actually suggested the same thing in these very comments.
Snopes discussed this exact situation, minus Camel A. Harris, back in 2008.
People like to elect their president.
You can't go homeboy again.
As usual, Meade is correct. Not that they needed any energizing.
Who would have believed at Nixon's inauguration in January 1973 that Gerald Ford would be the President of the United States by the end of 1974?
Well, other than Mark Felt, perhaps...
The qualification for Vice President is that he is eligible to be President - To elect a Vice President not qualified to be elected President would be illegal. Maybe you could get around that by appointing him VP and confirming him through the Senate - but I don’t think the election route would be in anyway legal. Much less than be ethical and cause a near civil war.
This risky scheme would be in keeping with Ginsberg's dying wish, by assuring the next president is "installed".
I can't decide if Althouse's interpretation of the dying wish is based on an 'Originalism' theory of the dying wish, or, is her interpretation based on a 'Textualism' theory of the dying wish ;)
Democrat's will to power will turn America in to a bannana republic, they just can't help themselves. I hope Trump wins, but look for leftist bombings and warfare.
He should win Nobel Prize for Literature for figuring out the most high-flown, brilliant way of NOT writing a book. Conceptual art, blah blah blah. Stunning!!!
Hahahhahaha! Between this and the concerts statement, I am going to be happy all day.
American women still have a soft spot for Obama based on pure feelings.
Duly noted.
Yeah...Obama! That’s the ticket!
The Demmie bench is empty of talent and even competence. Look at the losers who should be their stars, the governors of large states: Cuomo! Newsom! Pritzker! Wolf! Whitmer! Evers! Waltz! Murphy!
You wouldn’t put any of them in charge of a candy stand. Their performance during the pandemic has been appalling, an exercise in inflicting the maximum pain for the minimum gain.
If you think 2020 was lit... Your proposed story outline is more entertaining than the promised months of post election litigation.
This scenario seems unlikely for a number of reasons, most of which people have outlined above.
But hey, it's 2020, if something still seems unlikely it just means that you haven't been paying attention through the past 9 months. At this pont if a flying saucer landed on the National Mall and a group of sentient dinosaurs strolled down the ramp I get the impression that people would just roll their eyes and sigh.
Ken said... " I'm getting the sense that there's not a lot of love lost between Biden and Obama."
I am of the opinion that the Biden-Harris ticket represents two different groups of Democrats trying to take control of the party and ultimately the country.
"China Joe" is the candidate of the China-friendly wing of the party: Big Tech, the Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street - the part of the country and the economy that wants to continue to curry favor with the Chinese and to keep access to their abundant cheap labor and big consumer market. They care not at all for Main Street, the deplorables of fly-over country, the Uighurs, or anything else. As long as it benefits them, it's OK. This group hates Trump for favoring Main Street over Wall Street and taking on China and upsetting their apple cart.
Harris is Obama's favored candidate and represents the BLM wing of the party, the ones using the faux vices of systemic racism and white supremacy to bring about a Marxist revolution and the transition of the country to a totalitarian, one-party socialist state. This is under the control of Obama and his mentors, Ayers and the old 60's radicals, with Soros and his Open Society and other supporting organizations footing the bill.
That's just a theory on my part and what I surmise from various commentaries over the past few weeks. How this would all shake out given a Dem sweep in the 2020 election is harder for me to figure out. Either way, for the average American who believes in liberty,
free markets, and the Constitution, it will be a disaster.
And the really cool thing is, then Obama could win the Nobel Prize for Literature!
They'd also give him the Nobel in Physics for pulling all that off...
MOPA!
12th amendment
C’mon Athouse, you’re a law professor
"The 25th Amendment doesn't say the VP nominee must meet the original Constitutional eligibility. AOC could be nominated. A foreigner could be. Someone goofed that up."
Nobody goofed up. The 12th Amendment does that (text pointed out above). And unless that last line of the 12th doesn't mean what it says, our host Con Law prof fails this exam by skipping right past 12 to get to 22.
"He should win the Nobel Prize for Literature for figuring out the most high-flown, brilliant way of NOT writing a book."
The John Cage of literature. Except Cage had a point.
[Obama] can restore what will be proclaimed "civility."
Anyone who thinks that the Obama presidency was a model "civility" is delusional or a liar.
What about substituting the two Clintons into that scheme instead of the vaunted one?
Meanwhile back in reality...
...Annnnd there it is: at 9:22 a.m., 42 days before the election, a lid has been called by the Biden campaign...
He must think he's won it already. He might be right.
He's been gone for such a long time
Hey-la-hey-la my boyfriend's back
Now he's back and things'll be fine
Hey-la-hey-la my boyfriend's back
I'm sure Obama would like to both destroy all evidence of his part in the Russian collusion hoax, and also regain control of the intelligence agencies, so that he can finish the job of making them a political asset for change in the US.
Fantasy dialogue.
Obama: So, Joe, now that you've appointed Kamala to SCOTUS, you can appoint me Vice President.
Biden: You? I wouldn't appoint you dog-catcher.
the post needs a "civility bullshit" tag.
Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers."
We’re already energized.
The 12th amendment quotes miss AA's cunning linguistics. She is saying Obama is ineligible to be *elected* President, but not ineligible to *be* President. Her argument depends on the meaning of elect, which really means chosen, but it’s not a slam dunk to cite the 12th.
It might be prudent for Biden to pack the Supreme Court first.
The Democrats are already running against the constitution. It is in their platform to gut sections of the first amendment, and to vitiate the electoral college via unconstitutional state compacts. They already say they will pack the court and game the senate. AA is just suggesting they can put a pretty face on this power grab.
Very Tiger Beat.
Maybe you can win a dream date with Monkee Davey Jones, too.
I am Laslo.
And it's the left that is always whining about fascism...
It reminds me of 1976. MN Senator Walter Mondale is elected President, so Governor Wendell Anderson had to appoint a replacement. He resigned so that his Lt. Gov. Rudy Perpich could become Governor and appoint Anderson to the Senate. For this clever ploy, in 1978 the entire DFL ticket got shellacked at the polls.
The visual expression of this post...
General Principles
And Obama nominates Hillary as VP.
And in 2024 you get current VP Hillary vs former P Trump in the election.
Brilliant
Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers." Hmm. Do you think so?
LOL!
My reaction is more along the lines of amusement.
If Trump voters are not energized enough by now, he may be in trouble.
Fuck. That.
This doesn't look desperate at all.
Scratch a liberal, you'll find a fascist. Every time.
The fact that this is even being floated among liberals renders it Q.E.D.
You know what would be entertaining?
Biden wins, nominates Harris to SCOTUS, appoints Obama as VP, resigns, Obama becomes POTUS, appoints TRUMP as VP, resigns, Trump becomes POTUS, appoints ... as VP. I'm not saying who but no matter who he would choose it would be supremely entertaining.
Talk about heads exploding.
If Biden wins and screws everything up as we expect he will, including turning over the reins to Harris, then what are the odds Trump does a Grover Cleveland and runs again in 2024?
The only reason this makes any sense to those floating this toxic and corrosive attack on governance and civility is because even Democrats know both Biden and Harris are shit candidates.
If we're going to get creative... Why pick Obama? Lets pick Oprah. She's a woman AND she' Black AND she's Loved by America. And then Oprah can then pick Michelle as VP. And we can then have two lovable black women running the country AND have a black woman on the SCOTUS.
Of course, the Althouse plan, while TECHNCIALLY correct, violates the spirit of the Amendment. The whole point was to limit ONE MAN to just 8 years in office. All our Presidents had followed the 2 term tradition established by Washington until FDR. As usual it was a liberal who broke tradition, because why keep Tradition when it stands in the way of power? Anyway, FDR kept finding an excuse to run again and again, and would've been President for 16 yrs. if he hadn't died in 1945.
Wow - this scheme is kinda like what Putin did in Russia when he stepped down from being President to be the Prime Minister of Russia while his puppet held the presidential office for a few years, then he stepped back up into the presidential role using some electoral sleight of hand. And they say that Trump is the one under Putin's influence...
Key matter would be how courts would interpret the 12th amendment language "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
Interestingly, when he was at Harvard, Al Franken once posed this as a potential scenario to get a third (Bill) Clinton term.
It would mean a lot for the major press outlets to be so very happy again.
All the celebrities who will go with them to the WHCD. They'll get to call it "Nerd Prom" again. Cuz they're nerds! Hanging out with celebrities. Ahhh...the country was so happy when Obama was Potus.
Ann! Delete this post!
Unknown said...
"The Twelfth Amendment states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President." Since Obama is ineligible to the office of President, since he was elected twice, he is ineligible to the office of Vice President."
Constitutionally ineligible to be elected and constitutionally ineligible to the office aren't necessarily the same thing.
Biden, of course, would never go for that malarkey. C'mon man, Biden has wanted to be President since 1988. That's 32 years, and this is his big chance. He's not going to give it up, until he loses or he get elected and someone invokes the 25th amendment.
I don't even think the lefties want the big O anymore.
He looks like John Birch compared to this current crop of AOC brain dead Marxists.
Interesting scheme. Question is, however, whether there are enough secret service agents to keep the plot principals alive until the plot can be consummated. I would think not.
I would like a Democrat here to answer this for me:
I keep hearing that Garland's seat was stolen. That he should have received a vote.
BUt.....he would have been voted down.
Would a "no" vote against Garland have made you feel the seat was not "stolen"?
Or do you, in your heart of hearts, think he should have been confirmed?
Because to me....the seat being "stolen" means you wanted him confirm, not just voted on. But I'd love to her if you think differently.
So you do have that liberal proclivity to reinvent law. My common-law understanding is that if one is constitutionally ineligible to be P they cannot run as a VP either. Everybody used to understand this without controversy.
Ninth Circuit Court Overturns Death Of Ruth Bader Ginsburg
The 25th Amendment doesn't say the VP nominee must meet the original Constitutional eligibility. AOC could be nominated. A foreigner could be. Someone goofed that up.
The 12th Amendment has that covered. You are ineligible to be vice president if you are ineligible to be president. That would seem to cover Althouse's hypothetical as well.
The democrats who *ahem* installed Biden as their nominee should have engineered this by selecting Obama as the vice presidential nominee. It would have generated excitement for the democratic ticket. Rekindled that old Obama Coalition Hillary lost and Joe likely cannot replicate alone.
Republicans would a gone crazy with procedural objections, which are always losing arguments, and democrats could have openly admitted that poor 'ol Joe is mentally incompetent.
Blogger MayBee said...
"Hahahhaha. I really think Obama likes being ex President. All that money and nothing really required of him."
This has always been the all of it. Obama has never demonstrated any interest other than taking the shortest, fastest beeline to the most secure and lucrative retirement possible.
This has always been his true and only genius, a Mark Twain yarn in another century.
"The Twelfth Amendment states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President." Since Obama is ineligible to the office of President, since he was elected twice, he is ineligible to the office of Vice President."
He's only ineligible to be ELECTED another time. If he were appointed, he wouldn't be elected. Plus, the 12th amendment was written in its time, long before the 22d amendment, so "constitutionally ineligible" understood according to the original understanding, means that he needs to be at least 35 and a natural-born citizen.
If Obama got a second chance at it, I think he would do much of what Trump did and try to pretend it was different. He saw Trump do exactly the opposite of what he did, and he had to sit and watch how incredibly well it performed and think, "wow, imagine how much everyone would love me if it was me who got those results, and that would be true. Imagine if Obama got the economic results, the great employment and wage results for minorities, the peace agreements in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, improved the trade deals and NATO, and stayed out of war, like Trump did. Unlike with the TDS of the left, even conservatives would would happy about that and give him credit.
The question would be: what is stronger in Obama, his reason or his ideology? The second time around he would know things he didn't about what works really well and what does not.
You should be a National News Anchor...Your fantasies, and dreams are for the utopia the One could NEVER produce, except for himself. He didn't care about you. It's time you got over him. He was a corrupt Spy who belongs in Gitmo with the rest of his administration and the Intelligence agencies and people he involved.
Too many moving parts. Rube Goldbergish....You have, however, given Ivanka and The Donald food for thought. Why shouldn't Ivanka invite her aging parent to join her in the White House as he lives out his final sixteen years in the loving presence of Ivanka and Jared as they continue their careers in public service.
On the topic of Cuomo, he decided not to run for President in 1992 because he thought Bush was unbeatable. That left it open for no name, no chance Bill Clinton. I wonder how many sleepless nights that gave him ?
This is nothing.
Just wait until Nancy finds that quiver with all those arrows!
Then Schumer and Joe's teleprompter can be told what to do.
Since dying wishes (real or imagined) are apparently now the Laws of the Land, I announce before the fact that my dying wish will be that "liberals," "progressives," and all other varieties of coercion-addicted State-fellators commit suicide, leaving the rest of us in peace and freedom. Any such vermin who want to get started on that now are free to do so.
Romney, at least, has said he would vote on the nomination, unlike the RINOs Murkowski and Collins.
I can find this kind of reasoning on Facebook.
He's only ineligible to be ELECTED another time. If he were appointed, he wouldn't be elected. Plus, the 12th amendment was written in its time, long before the 22d amendment, so "constitutionally ineligible" understood according to the original understanding, means that he needs to be at least 35 and a natural-born citizen.
Oh hell, just have the contested election go to the SC and have the Justices rule Obama is the winner.
Much, much cleaner and easier to explain to the American people.
I keep hearing that Garland's seat was stolen. That he should have received a vote.
BUt.....he would have been voted down.
Would he have? When was the last time the Republicans failed to confirm a Democratic nominee to the court before Garland? The last Democratic nominee to fail was Abe Fortas in 1968, and his nomination was withdrawn before it was voted on. The last Democratic nominee to lose a vote in the Senate was in 1894, Wheeler Peckham lost 32- 41. The last four Democratic nominees:
Kagan 63-37
Sotomayor 67-29
RBG 96-3
Breyer 87-9
The 12th amendment quotes miss AA's cunning linguistics.
The juxtaposition of 'cunning' and 'linguistics' is somewhat disturbing, Ken.
"What's in it for Obama?"
He's been home with Michelle for months...
well thought out Professor!
i can't think of ANYTHING, that would bring about a violent civil war faster than that
Serious Question
assuming, for the sake of argument, that this took place; WHY would O'Bama EVER step down?
1) dems (somehow) keep the court seat open
2) dems (somehow) "win" the election... Several days (weeks? (months?)) after election day
3) Jo Biden appoints Kamela to the court (which is approved by a senate from step 2), etc
4) ONE HALF OF THE COUNTRY IS NOW SHOWN THAT IT IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY
5) Large amounts of the military walk away from their bases: WITH their guns and tanks
6) exciting War comes to the USA
now; at that point, with large scale war going on, and most of america seeing this for the naked power grab it was.... WHY would O'Bama EVER step down?
Don’t they need 60 votes to confirm a VP?
So Obama has to be a natural born citizen. Got him.
The peculiar thing about the Constitution is while history, amendments, jurisprudence, and popular opinion have fundamentally changed the original spirit in which it was written, we are still stuck with the mechanics. Americans view the president like a prime minister. He runs on issues (e.g. economics, immigration, healthcare, energy) that require actions by Congress. He is expected to get in office and get an agenda accomplished rather than merely coordinate and carry out decisions made by Congress.
The expectations and demands placed on the president are far beyond what any single human being could accomplish. Combine that with the ability of Congress and the Courts to constrain a president, and you get the gridlock of checks and balances and a frustrated electorate. That puts pressure on the president to act more autonomously and unilaterally, bypassing the courts and the Congress. Whether such action is necessary or an illegitimate power grab is purely a partisan matter. If our side does it, it's fine, if their side does it, it's bad.
If a majority of Americans want something, how long will they tolerate procedural barriers to getting it? The mechanics of the Constitution will eventually be changed, one way or another. A piece of paper cannot constrain a state.
He's only ineligible to be ELECTED another time. If he were appointed, he wouldn't be elected. Plus, the 12th amendment was written in its time, long before the 22d amendment, so "constitutionally ineligible" understood according to the original understanding, means that he needs to be at least 35 and a natural-born citizen.
NOW, all of a sudden, Althouse becomes an originalist. Somehow the 14th Amendment can be interpreted to legalize birthright citizenship, abortion and gay marriage (even though it mentions none of them) but the 12 Amendment's meaning can't be changed by the 22nd Amendment?
The last paragraph of the 12th amendment:
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
This clearly states that neither the Electors nor the Senate can choose a vice-president that is ineligible to be president.
In order for your dream to come true, Obama would have to become Speaker of the House, and then have both the president and vice-president become unable to serve.
AA at 12:57 fully vindicates my observations ...
So many here are so easy to trigger
the Professor IS right, though; the Constitution ONLY means what a majority of Justices SAY it means.
after packing the court; a majority could just SAY that the due process clause REQUIRES President O'Bama for life. a majority can SAY that the Constitution means WHATEVER they want it to.... HELL! a majority could SAY that the Constitutional Right to Privacy REQUIRES states to allow the murder of infants!!
The Only recourse would be Violent Civil War; which is What Professor Althouse is advocating
For those of you pointing to the text of the constitution to rebut Ann's scenario, I have to ask:
Where have you been for the last 40 years?
Our courts have made it abundantly clear that the law says whatever they say it means. See Torricelli and Lautenberg for an example a court disregarding crystal clear deadlines in the law completely.
Not interpreting... just saying the law didn't matter.
The election, and in theory, Ann's scenario could very easily come down to the vote of John Roberts.
130+ million votes, but only one voter that counts.
So much for being a nation of laws and not men.
Progressive pothead pipedream
"The choice would also meet a long-discussed goal of putting someone with political experience on the Court."
Exactly the opposite of my goal: constitutional jurists on the Court, not pols.
Maybe you can win a dream date with Monkee Davey Jones, too.
No way!- Leif Garrett's a hunk!!
he needs to be at least 35 and a natural-born citizen.
Wait...so like...a test tube baby can't be President?
Man, those founding fathers thought of everything.
More ammo. Must buy more ammo.
Biden should announce that, if elected, he will nominate Barack Obama for the Supreme Court. True, Obama is not a black woman, but people will get over that. Biden can make this announcement after the hubbub that follows Trump's announcement of his nominee, saying that we need a "calm and reasonable voice to bring the country together." Will be tough for Trump to counter among moderates. I think that too many of us learned in grade school that "you can't be President more than twice" -- whether that is technically accurate or not -- to overcome a feeling that it is improper for Obama to be VP.
"Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers."
I always agree with Meade. Except when he's wrong.
Ann Althouse said...the 12th amendment was written in its time, long before the 22d amendment, so "constitutionally ineligible" understood according to the original understanding, means that he needs to be at least 35 and a natural-born citizen.
One flaw in this reasoning--the 12th Amendment existed when the 22nd was adopted. The adopters would be presumed to know of it and, by being silent about it, to have chosen not to exclude the 22nd from its terms; therefore, the limitation contained in the 12th should apply to the 22nd.
With all of the squabbling that will ensue it will be a banana split republic.
Tra-la-la! La-la-la-la!...
Assuming a Democratic controlled Senate, of course.
To be on the safe side, Biden should first nominate about 3 new Sup Ct justices, maybe including Harris, and wait on the Obama nomination until they are confirmed and sworn in--a matter of a few days in this scenario--to ensure the "correct" answer when he nominates Obama to be VP and it is challenged.
What a sorry situation we have come to where one would even contemplate such things. "Rule of law" is dead and the Democrats killed it. Now, we all reap the whirlwind.
"He's only ineligible to be ELECTED another time."
That doesn't make sense. Did you buy a teleprompter from a Mr. Biden from Delaware?
So Trump would be eligible to run for VP in 24?
With Pence on top.
IN Feb 25 Pence resigns, Trump becomes president again and makes Pence his VP
Happiness!
Pence/Trump 24
Repeat in 28 and we could have President Trump for the rest of his life.
John Henry
"I keep hearing that Garland's seat was stolen. That he should have received a vote.
BUt.....he would have been voted down."
Ridiculous. The sole reason for denying Garland a hearing is that, given a vote, he would have been confirmed by a landslide. Repubs are simply incapable of playing the kinds of hardball games the dems are famous for.
The fact is the Dem Party has a significant constituency and a number of important leaders who simply do not believe in the founding principles of the United States. It doesn't mean they're bad people.
Oh, wait...yes it does.
If Trump wins, as a gesture of compromise and bipartisanship, he should nominate Slow Joe to be General Secretary of the UN, and tell the old codger that he is now President of the World. Slow Joe might just buy it.
Now I’m feeling triggered!
Blogger Kevin said...
This is nothing.
Just wait until Nancy finds that quiver with all those arrows!
--
Those belong to Fauxcahontas!
Come on, man. Joe gets more accomplished before 10 am than, than...you know the thing!
The Middle Coast said...
Biden should announce that, if elected, he will nominate Barack Obama for the Supreme Court. True, Obama is not a black woman, but people will get over that. Biden can make this announcement after the hubbub that follows Trump's announcement of his nominee, saying that we need a "calm and reasonable voice to bring the country together." Will be tough for Trump to counter among moderates. I think that too many of us learned in grade school that "you can't be President more than twice" -- whether that is technically accurate or not -- to overcome a feeling that it is improper for Obama to be VP.
9/22/20, 10:21 AM
Calm and Reasonable??? He started this division and fanned the flames of the fires....
My take away on this is that Democrat's schemes to skirt laws are something that is just taken for granted. Not OMG how could they even attempt something so underhanded, but yeah, sounds like something they might try. Sad.
He can pick Hillary, too.
What greater work of fiction than a fictional book, unless it's a fictional book for which you've been paid millions in advance? In a time where no one has time to read books, the Nobel Literature committee needs to adapt, evolve.
If this is bridge too far, perhaps Trump's tweets deserve serious consideration for the Noble in Literature: hard to see anyone else in the short-form modern literature who comes close to evoking the full range of human emotions in the fewest characters.
"In order for your dream to come true, Obama would have to become Speaker of the House, and then have both the president and vice-president become unable to serve."
Wouldn't he still be ineligible, and it would skip over him to next in line, which I believe is the D.C. dog catcher?
It occurs to me this isn't a very feminist scheme.
Musical chairs on the Titanic... How telling that there are no new inspiring people in any of these scenarios...
Just the exercise of raw power.
Dick the Butcher was onto something...present company excepted, of course.
You can't be VP unless you meet the requirements for President. Althouse is trolling.
12th Amendment: "...no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States."
No Putin-style shuffling to stay in power.
Lets pick Oprah. She's a woman AND she' Black AND she's Loved by America. And then Oprah can then pick Michelle as VP. And we can then have two lovable black women running the country AND have a black woman on the SCOTUS.
If Oprah's President why stop at one Justice? YOU GET A SEAT! YOU GET A SEAT! EVERY-BODY GETS A SEAT!!!!
Sally327 said...
This idea requires Joe Biden to be the kind of person who would voluntarily relinquish a position of immense power and prestige, which seems unimaginable as he has never before demonstrated anything close to that level of self-sacrifice for anyone or anything. And he'd start with the Presidency? What would he get out of doing this?
I've seen something like this a lot here. This is incorrect. The correct version is:
This idea requires Joe Biden's team ...
Joe has no clue. The people running Joe, however, are NOT willing to give up the power they think they're going to get by puppetting Joe into the White House.
If they were willing to give up that power, they would have had Joe pulled before the DNC
"I keep hearing that Garland's seat was stolen. That he should have received a vote.
BUt.....he would have been voted down."
He WAS voted down, by the Majority that refused to give him a hearing.
The Majority chose to withhold their consent. All the whining and crying can not obscure that fact
It is always good to air out the dirty laundry in the Constitution
- using TidePods as needed.
- better than have people bleed out over it.
"But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
There is no distinction here between elected and appointed.
That term "no person" is crystal clear.
It's also a fully independent statement, not a clause, subordinate to something else. It's not conditioned on anything else. This sentence is fully self-contained.
There may be a window for a former 2-term president who becomes Speaker of the House to assume the office of POTUS as a matter of succession. But he cannot become Vice President.
Obama was possibly the most condescending President since Woodrow Wilson.
If Trump wins, as a gesture of compromise and bipartisanship, he should nominate Slow Joe to be General Secretary of the UN...
He should name Joe ambassador to his own basement.
Blogger rcocean said...
If we're going to get creative... Why pick Obama? Lets pick Oprah. She's a woman AND she' Black AND she's Loved by America
AND gay
John Henry
This theory of Obama's resurrection has been floating around for awhile now (didn't Althouse propose exactly this in blog post or comment some time in the last 2 years?). And Althouse is right- there is a huge loop hole in the 22nd Amendment that would likely allow any flexible SCOTUS justice to approve Obama as a VP, even as a candidate for the office prior to November 3rd.
Well if Biden nominated either Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton for the Supreme Court, he'd set another first. Nominating a Supreme Court Justice who flunked the bar exam on her first try. Although to be fair to Ms. Harris, the California Bar Exam is a lot tougher than the D.C. Bar Exam that Hillary blew.
"I see a third term for Trump."
I read the comments before posting my second idea, that Trump could use it, too!
tcrosse: You should keep up with the news--first volume of Obama's memoirs is being published mid-Nov.
Speaking of banana split republics, the immortal Luis Prima and Keely Smith had somewhat to say on the subject:
https://youtu.be/uJcRoYuV2Q0
John Henry
Meade is accusing me of "energizing Trumpers." Hmm. Do you think so?
Just as satire is obsolete nowadays when it comes to politics, no scenario is so ridiculous or grotesque that "progressives" could not adopt it.
"Trumpers" are already energized.
"Okay, but what about 2024? This only works for 1 term."
All Obama would need in 2024 is another horse ride into the VP office. The 22nd Amendment doesn't seem to explicitly preclude Obama from actually running as a VP candidate. All that would be needed is a compliant judiciary.
Fernandinande said...
"Here's the text of the 12th Amendment:
"But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
True, but when the 12th was enacted, it was understood that they were talking about the original requirements from Article II. The 22nd Amendment came much later. I do think that the writers of the 22nd probably did take into account the 12th, and that is why the amendment isn't written more explicitly to address this, but then again, perhaps they just overlooked this.
Don't take the Brown Acid, remember?
It's an entertaining thought experiment, but will remain purely a thought experiment because, Constitutional questions aside, Jill Biden is bound and determined to be First Lady and occupy that house for as long as Joe can be kept alive.
Do Amendments supercede / override / intersectionalize ?
Is the American mind able to nuance tippy toe through the (land)mines?
Is that the fun game of calvin ball rules of laws
The 22nd amendment doesn't say anything about eligibility to be president, only about eligibility to be elected president. It's a clear loophole in the text of the constitution, but the SC of course would be requested to close that loophole. Whether they would or not is not clear, with so many advocates of the language of the document on the court.
Mike Sylwester wrote:
"Ninth Circuit Court Overturns Death Of Ruth Bader Ginsburg"
She is just pining for the fjords.
AA must have been privately pounded by her liberal friends to posit this Rube Goldberg formulation. They didn't like her approach to the riots and Dem leadership (or lack thereof).
Greg The Class Traitor said...
"I keep hearing that Garland's seat was stolen. That he should have received a vote.
BUt.....he would have been voted down."
He WAS voted down, by the Majority that refused to give him a hearing.
The Majority chose to withhold their consent. All the whining and crying can not obscure that fact
---------------==============
Biden statement :
Only after consulting Democrats and Republicans in the United States Senate and seeking their advice and asking for their consent," he said.
- then would have to mean :
his nominations would in effect be done deals - politically cooked up with politicians in the Senate - everything else is proforma in the greatest deliberative body in the universe.
deliberate - interesting word : please discuss
de - liberate = deprive of liberty (perhaps?)
"The Middle Coast said...
Biden should announce that, if elected, he will nominate Barack Obama for the Supreme Court."
You don't waste a Supreme Court pick on a soon-to-be 60-year-old.
Especially on one who has more money than God and would rather be watching ESPN...
Greg The Class Traitor said...
Sally327 said...
This idea requires Joe Biden to be the kind of person who would voluntarily relinquish a position of immense power and prestige, which seems unimaginable as he has never before demonstrated anything close to that level of self-sacrifice for anyone or anything. And he'd start with the Presidency? What would he get out of doing this?
I've seen something like this a lot here. This is incorrect. The correct version is:
This idea requires Joe Biden's team ...
Joe has no clue. The people running Joe, however, are NOT willing to give up the power they think they're going to get by puppetting Joe into the White House.
If they were willing to give up that power, they would have had Joe pulled before the DNC
----------===============
anti 25A in effect (puppet mastering the cabinet too?).
I am proposing Narayanan Law for Constitutional language
- for every amendment there is an opposite implied version (equal, possibly stronger because gullible voters + lawyers who train in the field for peculative purposes )
Blogger Bill Harshaw said...
tcrosse: You should keep up with the news--first volume of Obama's memoirs is being published mid-Nov.
Nov 17, to be precise
Wow, that's amazingly fast turn-around bay Crown, given that they were whining about "the book not being turned in", what, two months ago?
Is there nothing in the constitution about being installed as vice president?
The 22nd Amendment doesn't seem to explicitly preclude Obama from actually running as a VP candidate.
He might be able to run, he can't be elected.
The 12th Amendment specifically precludes either the Electors or Senators from voting for him.
Since he is Constitutionally ineligible to be president, he is also ineligible to be vice-president. The only way he can legally become president would be to be elected Speaker of the House of Representatives (and he does not need to be a member of the House to be chosen) and then for the president and vice president to be incapacitated.
Joe has no clue. The people running Joe, however, are NOT willing to give up the power they think they're going to get by puppetting Joe into the White House.
I agree. Can anyone imagine Bill Gates and Eric Schmidt and the others behind Biden giving up this chance?
"In order for your dream to come true, Obama would have to become Speaker of the House, and then have both the president and vice-president become unable to serve."
Wouldn't he still be ineligible, and it would skip over him to next in line, which I believe is the D.C. dog catcher?
The 22nd Amendment only prohibits someone from being elected president after serving twice. If Obama was Speaker and became president, there would be no election, merely procedure.
As far as I can tell, the only people that could legally vote for Obama to be vice-president would be the House of Representatives. If Biden was elected president, and somehow Harris was prevented from becoming vice president, Biden could nominate Obama to be his vice president like Nixon did with Ford. In that case both Houses of Congress would vote, and Obama would need a majority of both to become vice president. However the 12 Amendment would prevent Senators (but not Representatives) from electing Obama.
True, but when the 12th was enacted, it was understood that they were talking about the original requirements from Article II. The 22nd Amendment came much later. I do think that the writers of the 22nd probably did take into account the 12th, and that is why the amendment isn't written more explicitly to address this, but then again, perhaps they just overlooked this.
The amendment did not need to be written any differently. The 12th Amendment say that anyone "Constitutionally ineligible" to be president is also ineligible to be vice president. The 22nd Amendment changes the requirements to be Constitutionally eligible to be president.
Such a lovely plan.
Such a move would mark the end of the Era of That's Not Funny, and the beginning of Flamethrower Time in America. Not some scrawny antifa dorks with pathetic Molotov cocktails, but real men, Brad Pitt/Leo Dicaprio men, going flamethrower on the zombie country.
George Wallace sends his regards.
Treejoe said
But between Trump and Obama, never before have two back-to-back Presidents inspired such rabid hatred.
You are probably not old enough to remember Johnson & Nixon. Though it was weird that Johnson was hated mostly by the people who elected him in a landslide.
Jill Biden wants to be First Lady and be the power behind Ol' Joe. She'll never agree to this scheme. She'd have to die in a tragic accident for this to work. Shouldn't Hillary be involved in planning this scheme. Without her, it would never work.
Jason said...
"There is no distinction here between elected and appointed.
That term "no person" is crystal clear.
It's also a fully independent statement, not a clause, subordinate to something else. It's not conditioned on anything else. This sentence is fully self-contained."
Guys, guys...
Don't get so hung up on the actual words and their crystal clear meaning.
Three words: penumbras and emanations.
"Since dying wishes (real or imagined) are apparently now the Laws of the Land,"
Well, poetry attributing statements to large copper clad statues is now the law of the land, so why not everything else?
How about when Pence runs for president in 2024, he picks Trump for VP? Then, Pence resigns and Trump gets to be President again. Trump will be what - 78? If Ginsburg can hang in there till she's 87, why can't Trump hang in there until he's just 82 (a comparative youngster)?
tcrosse-: You should keep up with the news--first volume of Obama's memoirs is being published mid-Nov.
I can hardly wait.
Let's get down, to brass tacks
WHAT, does the Constitution say about appointing a new Vice President?
Anyone?
Here's a hint: NOTHING
In the olden days, they just left it empty
Obama liked the perks of being President. He couldn't stand the job and the work required because he's a lazy SOB.
He's not going anywhere.
first volume of Obama's memoirs is being published mid-Nov.
Will this be another e-book Dud, but hardcover best-seller. So people can have it on their book shelves, but on their readers?
The 22nd Amendment is part of the constitution. The 12th Amendment refers to constitutional eligibility. Whether the words "ineligible to the office" mean "ineligible to be elected to the office" or "ineligible to hold the office whether by being elected to the office or otherwise" is a matter of interpretation. And that is true under originalism or textualism as well as more free-wheeling isms.
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