ADDED: My son John is live-blogging here.
২৯ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০২০
Here's a place to talk about the debate.
I probably won't talk about anything until tomorrow, but I'll try to approve comments for at least a little while. I expect to fall asleep. It's starting too late! I don't know how old man Biden — and old man Trump — can take these late hours. And I'm in the Central Time Zone.
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247 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Speaking of old men, in October 1966, The NYT had an article with the title, "Nixon on the Stump -- An Old Timer at 53".
Biden is wrong about Trump being allowed to pick in this term.
The party "c'est moi."
Trump is sharp. It must be from being in charge all these years.
Senators must be brain dead from all the dumb meetings they sit through.
Yea.
Go ahead and talk about it...when and if I let some comments through.
Talking about...anything doesn't work when moderating.
You know that. Why bother.
Jeeze....I wished you had opened a non-moderated thread.
Two children on a playground.
I'll hear of the highlights tomorrow. I don't like either one of them live.
Biden to Trump:
"Shut up, man."
Presidential.
Old Man Biden probably has so many pharmaceuticals coursing through his veins at this point that he probably could last the through the debate, have a midnight supper, and then dance until three.
"Will you shut up man..." 20 minutes in. Trump is hitting Biden in the body and it is starting to show.
Make it stop.
I'm ready to kill my husband. He told me the start date was 8:00 ET (5:00 here on the West Coast), so I'm studiously avoiding the TV for over an hour and getting ready to turn it on to watch the commentary at 6:30 (PT) and F**K - it just began.
Back to watching something on Netflix.
Keep Yapping Man.
My God, Biden is terrible. Trump is... not as terrible. Biden being unable to admit to not being willing to pack the court should be a bigger deal.
Biden is mumbly but I think he landed a pinch on healthcare. "Has no plan.". Which is true. Gop "plan" was always a joke.
Joe's working the facial reax too.
Damn.
Trump is making this debate about him and Biden is following his lead.
Watched a couple of minutes about a half hour in. Waste of everybody's time. Back to the movie. Trump can speak of his accomplishments. Biden has no accomplishments, nor any specific policy ideas he is willing to speak about.
This is not going well for Trump—at all.
He is defeating himself here. Someone should tell him to just let Biden mess up on his own.
Holy cripes....
Trump is going to lose everything right here.
Gawd.
Blogger rhhardin said...
I'll hear of the highlights tomorrow. I don't like either one of them live.
At 74 and 77, tomorrow might be too late!
It can't be a debate about issues because Biden won't answer on issues. Asked about packing court; won't answer. Asked about his covid plan; criticizes Trump's work. Plan is to anger Trump. Not to explain his own positions.
Did Trump just get Wallace to laugh at "because no one will show up?"
Biden: He has no plan! I have a plan!
How come we never hear what Joe's plans are?
"He is defeating himself here."
-- Why do you say that?
I watched for 15 minutes. Trump cannot shut up long enough for Biden to hang himself.
It is a very entertaining debate if you like professional wrestling.
How come we never hear what Joe's plans are?
He plans to spend more money,
He plans to be not Trump.
Aren't those enough?
"Trump cannot shut up long enough for Biden to hang himself."
-- I thought Biden's "I am the Party. I am the Democrats" was quite a good self-hanging. The "I won't answer about packing the court" wasn't a good showing either.
Trump is too argumentative but Biden is holding his own so far.
I can't watch Trump's speeches so I am no judge.
It's a FOOD FIGHT debate!
Shrill Food Fight debates are hard to listen to.
Did Joe Biden really not remember Wallace was asking about masks?
It could be worse. They could have put John Althouse Cohen up there.
AZ Bob said...
It is a very entertaining debate if you like professional wrestling.
9/29/20, 8:38 PM
I do, and the skills Trump learned there have been incredibly useful. For instance, he's out-alphaing Biden in a way a cuck like Paul Ryan could never manage.
I watched for 15 minutes. Trump cannot shut up long enough for Biden to hang himself.
Yep.
Trump's funny and a good arguer but Biden seems more likeable.
Joe is running out of gas.
There aren't too many undecided voters left. I dont see Trump losing everything unless he goes even more unhinged. I also don't see Biden gaining much or losing much unless he goes full dementia on stage. Both are mostly recording sound bites for the next month's worth of ads.
"People want to be safe."
Uh... you know a famous person said something about trading liberty for safety.
Haha. New commenters against Trump. Must be election season.
Biden is just saying anything in his head. No rhyme or reason.
Trump is pounding the talking points. He has the goods.
Technical knockout for Trump.
Maybe the showman Trump decided to start as the hugest asshole ever and then get better and better and better?
What type of person is afraid of letting Biden, of all people, speak?
Trump has failed dramatically here. It's disgusting.
Good thing is, most people are like Harden, or won't even listen to any clips tomorrow. And the clips tomorrow would have to be 20 minutes long to show what an ass Trump is. Too long for TV or radio.
I'm sorry to say this but Althouse's son's live blogging is insufferable. He makes snide comments about Trump but the shamelessly covers for Biden.
"Wallace asks Biden if he supports getting rid of the filibuster or adding more Supreme Court justices. Predictably, Biden refuses to make any news: "Whatever position I take on that, that'll become the issue.… I'm not going to answer the question.""
He must take after his father.
Trump made one of Ann’s argument re Trump using Biden’s tax code.
Biden doing better than I expected.
It's almost unwatchable.
Manufacturing was in a hole!
Hunter sighting!
So far only about a dozen senior moments for Biden. Not too shabby.
Biden won't tell us whether he's for packing the court or ending the filibuster because people would focus on that when what they need to do is focus on voting.
He is defeating himself here."
-- Why do you say that?
..............
Biden does not have much to run on. Biden starts to answer you can sense he is about to mess up, or reveal that he does not have great ideas or substance and then Trump interrupts him and saves Biden from himself.
BOOM! Trump brings up Hunter and $3.5M from Russia!
Joe has the truth! He's just said that Hunter did nothing wrong! He better hope the DOJ doesn't dump some documents in the morning.
Biden calls Trump a "Clown"! Here we go!
"Why shouldn't I be different than the two of you?"
The gestalt is Biden comes off looking better.
Trump needs to let up.
This is garbage.
Wallace is a douche demanding to be the center of this debate.
Stephen Green:
"Biden is on the record now denying the Hunter took $3.5 million from the wife of the former mayor of Moscow.
The press going to fact-check his ass on that one?"
I think Biden could say "I won't address anything this scared little man says, I'm happy to answer any questions you have Chris" and then literally not acknowledge Trump exists.
It would make Joe potUS and be considered one of the best debate moments of all time.
Then, of course, no more debates.
Unbelievable.
"Has no plan.". Which is true. Gop "plan" was always a joke.
This is aways the beef- Lefties try to solve every problem with one ginormous unsustainable package of pork, soul crushing taxes and more authority of government. Every problem the same. GOP makes many organic changes in incentives and combinations of government intervention and private solutionsbut when it doesn't resemble a Democrat tax and spend the left cries where's your plan.
GOP solutions look different...before and after...
Joe is sundowning.
Trump's performance is worse than Biden's.
"Trump cannot shut up long enough for Biden to hang himself." --JAORE
Exactly right. Awful.
Very fine people lie.
Bulging veins again.
War Room:
"Joe Biden claimed "my son did nothing wrong at Burisma," the corrupt Ukrainian gas company that gave him boatloads of cash.
That's false. Obama Administration officials raised concerns, including directly to Biden."
"Biden starts to answer you can sense he is about to mess up, or reveal that he does not have great ideas or substance and then Trump interrupts him and saves Biden from himself."
-- What do you mean? Biden wouldn't answer the first point blank question: Will you pack the court? Why should I think he'd treat any other question differently?
Wait. 1 in 500 African Americans will die from COVID? Does... does Biden know how many people there are?
Very fine people lie breaking out.
Yet Hunter getting money is totally discredited.
OK fact checkers. C'mon man.
"Haha. New commenters against Trump. Must be election season. “
Yeah.
My favorite moment so far:
Trump mentions some weird unflattering detail about Bernie Sanders that nobody who has not closely followed the ACA Debate understands.
Biden ANGRILY says "Bernie is not the Democratic PARTY I AM"
Trump says, right to his face: "You just lost the left"
Poor crabby old Joe, from the depths of his dementia, helplessly grimaces, but remains silent.
Look man, people know Joe Biden does not give a fuck about them.
Biden whips out the Charlottesville hoax, a swing and a miss....
Trump hits Joe with the 1994 Crime bill.... direct hit.
Another round won by Trump.
"Say it, Joe.... Say it.... LAW AND ORDER"
Trump is putting red meat on the table. He has facts to support his assertions, and we may see Humper Biden seeing some additional scrutiny.
Althouse's son blocks criticism on his site. He's a hack. He actually has less to contribute than even Birkel.
Trump needs to highlight his accommplishments and let Biden mess up. Needs to stop talking over him.
He is not looking good and I like him :(
Did... did Biden just say Trump looks down on Irish Catholics?
Those two hate one another. Watching them brawl confirmed my aversion to politics.
Did... Did Biden just say "Republican cities" about New York and Chicago? Maybe I misheard.
Not watching. I tried. Took to reading the twitter of Never-Trumpers.
They all hate Chris Wallace for fucking up this debate.
An hour in, Trump is winning this on all the major points. Biden is doing exactly what I predicted he would do be agressive, name call, not answer any question with details, or just refuse to answer the questions that have basically yes/no answers. He is was definitely juiced up in the first 30 minutes, but he is flagging badly right now and getting even less coherent than the low level he had earlier.
I will say this- Biden had better be correct about the 3.5 million dollars alledgedly given to Hunter Biden, because if he isn't- he is finished in this race. I thought Biden would simply refuse to address the question, but by denying the story it he has set up on hell of a softball on a tee if the documentary bank transactions are available. Not all of the press is on their knees sucking Biden's withered cock.
Trump is missing a lot of opportunities. He already has my vote, but he is losing my mother's who I had talked into voting for him. Terrible performance.
Whoa. Did Wallace just... completely change the term "Defund the Police" so Biden didn't have to answer it that way... then Biden just walked into it anyway?
And .... did he say a 9/11 call? Oh, wait, I think he meant 9-1-1.
Crime is up in "Republican cities" says Biden.
lying piece of shit.
"He actually has less to contribute than even Birkel.”
That’s harsh.
Biden wins on points - no knock outs - Trump also punches self in face 0
Joe is flailing, hoping to land a punch.
Trump is focused in like a laser beam.
Chris Wallace is trying so hard to have a "Mike" Wallace moment.
Antifa is not an organization. But, remember: I can go on Reddit to get a PDF on how to set up your own chapter.
Why didn't Trump shut down the Charlottesville "very fine people" smear? Joe has practically made it the cornerstone of his campaign.
I can't believe Chris Wallace asked Trump to condemn the white supremacists and didn't ask the same of Biden for Antifa.
What a crock.
Trump should say to Biden:
If I had accepted 3.5 million dollars from some Russian, you and everyone on the left would be shrieking that it was proof I was a Russian spy and should be impeached immediately, but because your son does it, its A-OK?
Joe says that Antifa doesn't exist and is an "idea"!
Oh, brother!
Looks like a dem debate-
No American flag in sight.
The left has said the Burisma story was totally debunked from the start. I always asked, "By whom? Where is the report?"
I never got an answer.
Biden doubles down in a way that will be hard not to check.
Joe fixed the recession? News to me!
The left will lie to the point where "Portland is run by right wingers and Republicans" and "all those Antifa thugs burning and rioting each night are really not Antifa thugs. and plus it's all Trump's fault." bs
Chris Wallace is headed straight for the Dewar's bottle once this is over. You can just tell!
and just who the fuck are all these anti-Trump concern-troll newbz?
Biden: I AM the Democratic Party!"
Also Biden: "I'm not in public office."
Everything Biden says is fake news.
Calling military losers.
i just turned off the Trump Wallace debate, it was tedious
Trump needs to name Biden "Crooked Biden... and his Crooked son"
Trump does ok when he's not yelling. Unfortunately, that doesn't account for much of this shitshow.
I had to stop watching. Trump is not prepared and is blowing this great opportunity. The questions are loaded against Trump as we knew they would be and Biden is full of shit as we knew he would be, but his “look at the camera” presentation is effective.
Trump better listen to his advisors and organize his thoughts before the next one. Biden is on record with many, many lies.
Wallace ought to be ashamed about his “really fine people”, $750 in taxes, and “racial sensitivity” questions and cutting Trump off about Hunter’s grifting. Nevertheless, Trump should have countered effectively and with some dignity instead of trying to talk over Biden.
I'm pissed at Wallace. I usually really like him.
He asked about the "fine people" statement as if it were true.
He inserted two things he found important: That Biden and Obama had record job growth, and that major republican cities are as dangerous as major Dem ones.
So he knows how to insert "facts".
And now arguing about what Trump believes about global warming.
Biden's, "I am not in public office," reply to Wallace's obvious question about what he had done to reach out to the Democratic mayors and governors of these riot torn cities and states was the absolute worse answer he could have given. Weak and evasive.
Does Biden ever get questions as specific as Trump is getting here on the environment?
Trump now debating Wallace
Joe looking disinterested
Stephen Green:
"Pardon my language, but this has to be said.
Fuck you, Chris Wallace.
Fuck you for framing the California wildfires on pulling out of the Paris Accords.
Factually wrong and just so dishonest you don't belong anywhere near serious, honest people."
Indeed.
Joe, when you're on defense, you're losing. Points are only scored with offense.
Will he ask Biden about the GND?
Stephen Green:
"Pardon my language, but this has to be said.
Fuck you, Chris Wallace.
Fuck you for framing the California wildfires on pulling out of the Paris Accords.
Factually wrong and just so dishonest you don't belong anywhere near serious, honest people."
Isn't if funny how the media collectively circle the wagons around Hunter+Joe Biden corrupt international tax payer funded money whoring?
And Biden denying his son got money from Burisma and China. Simply, wow. I mean, this is an established fact that he just denied.
MAGA twitter not happy. Trump not doing well. Blaming Wallace for the most part.
Chris Wallace is so obviously anti-Trump. A disgrace.
Biden (personally, literally?) claims to have brought down the cost of renewable energy to the level of gas and coal.
Ho Lee Kow what a load of BS.
Proud boys told to 'standy by'.
Mobilizing brown shirts in the debate. WTF.
Look how long Biden goes without Wallace peppering him with what abouts and also thens.
Is Biden's plan really to speak softly and carry a big stick with South America?
'Stand back and stand by.' That's what it's come down to for Trump. As a alluded in a comment yesterday.
Hey! The Biden Plan! Which sounds exactly like the Green New Deal, but isn't!
I'm starting to get as confused as Joe!
Trump just said Biden called the military "stupid bastards".
Idiot Biden said: "Play it".
Hilarious. Biden is on tape, saying, to a military audience, in a senior moment, "clap you stupid bastards".
How could he not know he was on tape saying that?
"Play it", geek Biden said. Game, set, match, Biden you loser.
"It won't happen... it won't happen."
Yancey Ward said...
Biden's, "I am not in public office," reply to Wallace's obvious question about what he had done to reach out to the Democratic mayors and governors of these riot torn cities and states was the absolute worse answer he could have given. Weak and evasive.
I agree. He says he'll bring all these people back together but then he doesn't even call them now.
Wallace has been awful. I'd have preferred the debate to have been co-moderated by Ed Henry and a stripper of his choice.
"The Green New Deal with pay for itself."
Also
I don't support the GND, I support the Biden deal.
Democrats need crutches, gimmes and breaks from the press, and they get them.
Wallace is taking Biden's side.
Democrats are like brats or teacher's pets.
Can. Not. Watch. Left after too many interruptions (mostly from Trump) and Biden calling him a clown. Probably ten minutes of watching.
It's now on the TV in the living room (I can hear raised voices) and the wife left a few minutes ago muttering about the embarrassing president we have . . . it's hard to argue with that.
OTOH . . . Biden?
Narr
And the coven behind him?
They should do a Zoom debate and then mute the microphone of the person who is not supposed to be speaking. Tonight was a waste.
Biden said that "(W)hen President Trump leaves office, he will be the first president to have an economy that's worse shape when he leaves office than when he came in. Which begs the question, how does Biden know that Trump will be leaving office, unless he already knows the fix is in.
Browndog - not true. Biden sounds really stupid on every single issue. But thanks for your contribution, as dishonest as it was.
They should do a Zoom debate so they could mute the microphone of the person who is not supposed to be speaking—they don’t need to be in the same room. Tonight was a waste.
They should do a Zoom debate so they could mute the microphone of the person who is not supposed to be speaking—they don’t need to be in the same room. Tonight was a waste.
WTF is "independently certified" with our vote?
Does Biden not know about all the fraud related to mail in ballots?
Stephen Green:
Biden can tell his supporters to "stay calm" all he wants, but they know the subtext is "Take Portland national."
yep.
And that's why I don't usually watch debates.
Biden did better then I expected. Trump was debating Wallace half the time.
Unlike Romney, he did not passively stand and take it.
Glad I don’t watch these things. Sounds like nothing’s changed since Romney had to debate Obama and the moderator.
No surprises tonight. I predicted Biden would do OK. I thought Repubs were setting Biden expectations way too low and now it has come back and bit them.
I've always hated Trump's debate style. It's just cringe worthy. But he laid out some string facts. Trump is Trump and nothing we can do about it.
Biden was good enough to win. He didn't shit himself and drool like many expected. Biden has always been a vicious demagogue. He shamelessly told a black audience that Mittens Romney would put them back in chains. Anyone that brazen can push through a debate on muscle memory.
Readering: "'Stand back and stand by.' That's what it's come down to for Trump. As a alluded in a comment yesterday."
readering still reeling from Trump paying $1M in taxes in 2016 and $4.2M in 2017 and having all overpayments rolled forward as well as finding out today the russkis themselves became aware in July of 2016 that Hillary and her crew were launching the Russia Russia Russia hoax....and we have the documentation that shows obambi and team were briefed on that!
LOL
Trump had to debate Wallace first in order to debate Biden.
Does “open discussion” mean Wallace running interference for Biden?
I did not expect Biden to sound so stupid.
Trump says Biden should not have told the troops they were "stupid bastards", Biden says, I never said that, play it.
Sadly for Biden, he said it, and it is on tape.
That is only one example of Biden's sad responses.
The guy should be happy to sit in an old folks home, where he would be respected as people in old folks homes often are, just because we are kind to the elderly: but there is something seriously wrong with the angry little old man if he thinks he should have a position of responsibility. I would not allow him to watch my chihuahuas for anything more than five minutes.
Green New Deal---millions of good paying jobs. Well maybe, but who is going to pay the people doing those good paying jobs? Why it will pay for itself. And after all sez Joe, I've got this magic money bean plant.
From what I saw -- about half the scheduled debate -- I was right when I said that Biden would do better than the Trumpists who comment here expected . . . he didn't dribble saliva, pass out, or babble incoherently. And Trump therefore didn't "put Joe away" as his fans seem to have expected. But to anyone who has been paying attention to what's going on in the country and the world, it should be pretty clear who you ought to hire to dig the country out of the Covid hole. Trump promises to keep on doing what worked pre-Covid, and Biden wants big federal programs to tell people when and how they can go back to work someday. Of course, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the US electorate, so it's still a ball game. And Biden does have the media in his corner.
Well. It's over.
... It's really over.
Biden's, "I am not in public office," reply to Wallace's obvious question about what he had done to reach out to the Democratic mayors and governors
Biden EXPLICITLY STATED, that he is THE DEMOCRAT PARTY
sounds like someone with some sway; Too bad that the democrat moderator didn't remind him of that
"WTF is "independently certified" with our vote?"
-- I have no idea. It sounded like Biden was saying you can walk in and say "that's my ballot" to get them to count a ballot.
So the next Trump-Biden get together a town hall format with a woman moderator in front of a Salt Lake City audience. Should be interesting to see how POTUS adjusts his approach--not.
So the next Trump-Biden get together a town hall format with a woman moderator in front of a Salt Lake City audience. Should be interesting to see how POTUS adjusts his approach--not.
Wallace is just a media whore. He wants to be taken seriously by the other mediaswine so he frame his questions with fake news.
“Very fine people?” “Racial sensitivity training?” “$750 income tax?”
The Bidens net worth is $9 million says Forbes. Joe’s been a government employee for nearly 50 years. Jill was a teacher. Where did that come from? Democrat grifting. Major issue.
Would you be watching if Trump wasn't there? Trump should be reelected on entertainment value alone. He even made Biden fun to watch. Biden is 100% more entertaining when dueling Trump, because Trump makes us all better, more alive , more open to alternatives, thinking about things outside the academic/media/celebrity/Democrat hive mind. It's just a refreshingly honest disagreement, we seemed to have lost before 2016.
A shit show. Neither candidate distinguished himself but Trump's answers were more substantive than Biden's canned rhetoric. And I agree with Midlife Lawyer that Trump would have done better to let Biden talk uninterrupted. Personally, I think these debates are a waste of time. Most people don't vote based on debate performance. Of course, the media talking heads would have you believe otherwise.
stephen cooper said...
Browndog - not true. Biden sounds really stupid on every single issue. But thanks for your contribution, as dishonest as it was.
Come again?
First of all, you condescension is quite off putting. Secondly, I'm not dishonest...about anything. I make a point of it.
Thirdly, I was making an observation, not taking a position. Smarten up-
Trump needs to say the following:
"While leftwing antifa commit arson and riot each night in lefwing run cities, democrats like Biden and Biden's media have nothing to say about it - except lies and denial."
Der Leader got hosen
Trump dominated the debate, especially the last 45 minutes. Biden is simply incapable of putting together a complex thought and verbalizing it. Take for example the Green New Deal- Biden said he didn't support it but it was going to pay for itself? Another example- the Republican cities where crime is up- I think Biden really believes that, it isn't a lie to him. Additionally, the best way to answer the Hunter Biden accusations is to ignore them because, otherwise, you make yourself a target for a true fact check. Biden denied his son got money from the Russian mayor's wife and denied he got money from Burisma. The latter is actual fact that Biden claimed wasn't true, and the former is probably easily fact checked against Biden's interest if the allegation is true.
Trump might have done even better if he had let Biden actually try to explicate his thoughts more, but the truth is that Biden doesn't actually ever do this even when given the opening- Biden just stops and then changes the subject to some story he has told over and over.
I thought Wallace was more unfair than I expected him to be- the framing of the questions to Trump were always done to try to damage Trump, while all of the questions Biden got were framed to help Biden- for example, taking as fact global warming being the cause of the California fires- no matter what you believe about the cause/effect, such a framing has no business being used for such a question- it shows the moderator favors one position over the other, and that is completely inappropriate. Wallace did this with several of the topics. However, overall, I don't think this really hurts Trump- like all the other media whores, Wallace probably doesn't realize that such unfairness hurts the candidate he was trying to help, and helps the candidate he was trying to hurt- it is a blind spot the media people just don't seem to understand, and Trump plays to it relentlessly.
That being said, let us be honest.
God did not listen to the prayers of good people in 2008.
Seriously, we all know McCain and Romney were both little men who would have been horrible presidents, just like both Bushes, the decadent father and the clueless son, were.
That is what happens every once in a while in every country, in every nation, you get a string of loser leaders. Read, with sympathetic understanding, the books of Chronicles, the Book of Kings, Gibbon, or, if you are really as bright as you think, just read a sample from the few hundred thousand words from my humble contributions to historiography on the internet.
That being said, Biden tonight, while less of a snake than his master Obama ever was, has to have given, tonight, just about the greatest display of disgusting and thoughtless deceit, shameless lying, and nasty hatred that any human being has ever given on such a large stage.
Let us pray for the poor little old man, with his sad lidless bat-like eyes and his frightened demeanor, ensnared by the evil he wishes to support. Remember this: Like all of us, he too was once young and full of hope and good ideas and healthy kindness. For that reason, he deserves our prayers. He was not always the vicious and sad and lying old man that he now is.
Yeah, it was a mess. Biden visibly slowed as the debate progressed. Trump's plan must have been to be so aggressive Biden would have a breakdown, but it didn't happen. Biden managed to keep his cool for the most part.
Trump would be better served to be quiet while Biden talks. He ended up looking like the proverbial guy who wrestles with a pig. He made the better points in my opinion, but didn't look good doing so.
Semiotics: Biden looked pale and old. He got lost in syntax a couple of times, but he didn't looked addled or out of it. Trump looked far more vital, but he also looked overbearing.....I'm still for Trump, but I don't think Biden lost any votes. All the commentators are saying Trump lost it, so, judging by past experience, that's a sure sign that Trump has come out ahead....I don't think debates are won by witty rejoinders or impeccable logic. Some people will look at Biden and see an old man, and that might win the debate for Trump. Some people will look at Trump and see a bully, and maybe that puts Biden in the plus column....Maybe we'll find out in a few weeks who won, and maybe not.
Trump won the election against Hillary.
His debate against Hillary was not like this.
He needs to go back to that. In fact Hillary was probably a better debater than what Biden would have been tonight if that would have been exposed—but it was not.
If Trump people care about winning and do not want to lose to antifa in the street—wise the hell up and tell the truth to Trump for once.
The Biden camp probably has more excuse now to hide from the American public.
Browndog - whatever.
You know if you are honest or not.
Good luck.
All those Trumpists who went out on a limb on the meaning of Trump's words after Charlottesville...tonight Trump sawed it off.
Moderation was a huge negative. It would have been far better if each man was given 5 minutes each to make points of their choosing with the opposing mike turned off. Wallace's input was completely distracting and unhelpful. The candidates should talk about what they want to. That tells us what they think is important instead of what some guy who is not running wants to talk about. Does he know what I want to hear discussed? Clearly he does not. I got the distinct impression from Wallace's input that we were being guided by someone who does not understand what we care about, and was more interested in creating a "show" we are supposed to care about.
Chis Wallace ignores this:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1310893193873903616
Chris Wallace is a democrat asshole
The other New Yorkers in Cleveland tonight were in fine form: 12-3.
Trump took it to a new low and refused to condemn white surpremacist, this well not go well for him.
All the republicans have to do is show all of Slow Joe's denials of the things he has said....followed by Slow Joe actually saying those things he just denied saying.
The problem for the Trump campaign will be to whittle down the incredible number of these items to fit into 30 second and 60 second commercials.
My favorites are going to be not defunding the police (we should throw a Kamala snippet in this one as well), his denying he supports the Green Nude Eel, his denying that he supported Bernie's manifesto (that one was hilarious), etc.
And so now Hunter did NOT receive $3.5M from the corrupt Putin-connected Moscow Mayor's wife? Really?
And Hunter did NOT receive $1.5B from the ChiComs for his fake slush fund/investment company endeavor (with, (drum roll please), John Kerry's stepson and the nephew of notorious Boston criminal Whitey Bulger)!
And just wait until you see what American companies Hunter purchased with some of that cash....high tech/precision tools companies with technology that was illegal to transfer to the ChiComs.....but then did have that tech transferred to the ChiComs after Hunter purchased them!
That's right. Hunter bought those companies with ChiCom cash and then allowed the technology to be moved seamlessly to his ChiCom benefactors.
Very nice.
Trump should make a campaign appearance outside those 2 businesses. I believe one of them is in Michigan. That would make for a terrific photo op.
We need a Joe Rogan debate.
The MSM is a democrat ass-kissing joke.
I was checking out that statement about 1 in every thousand blacks has died. The figure is 97 per 100,000 so that is correct.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race#black
But that same site shows how many blacks per hundred thousand are dying in each state and how many whites.
The states with the five highest disparities between the black and white death rate were New York, Michigan, New Jersey Connecticut. Louisiana, closely followed by Massachusetts, DC, and Illinois.
New York
324 72
Michigan
239 41
New Jersey
308 145
Connecticut
260 101
Louisiana
214 83
The number of deaths in the black population is very disproportionate to deaths among whites and it's even worse between blacks and Asians.
The 5 states with the highest number of deaths per million of population are New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Louisiana. Michigan is number 10 in terms of number of deaths per million of population. The states with high numbers of deaths as between states and the states with disproportionate numbers of deaths as between races are approximately the same. These disproportionate deaths in the black communities are occurring in states with Democratic Governors and in the biggest cities of those states which cities have Democratic mayors. But public health is not focusing on these disproportions which indicate a locus of sickness. Instead they are passing mandates affecting whole states which weakens the response to the most affected area. It's as if there were a tornado Xenia Ohio and in response all of Ohio closed all businesses. How could Xenia recover without the help of the rest of Ohio? How can the disproportionately affected black communities in the large Dem run cities be properly assisted if all the other areas of the city - downtown, near-in suburbs - are locked down and financially struggling? Moreover it is, disproportionately, elderly people who are affected so even the rest of black community could re-open which would help the elderly. And I do not know why public health officials are not now informing us of these facts. At the start, who knew? But now?
Sources for my comments - for got to put them in.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race#black
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/country/united-states/
Trump did to Biden what Obama did to Romney.
Cut him off and talked over him and made him look weak and brushed the moderator off.
Well played.
Least uplifting debate ever.
Chris Wallace the clear loser of the debate: shows.
Joe Biden: places.
"Trump might have done even better if he had let Biden actually try to explicate his thoughts more, but the truth is that Biden doesn't actually ever do this even when given the opening- Biden just stops and then changes the subject to some story he has told over and over."
-- I kind of agree here. Biden got two questions early on, from Wallace or Trump. "Will you name who you might appoint and agree to not pack the court?" He'd do neither.
That was a disgrace.
Trump sucked. Biden sucked. Wallace sucked.
Scary times ahead.
Trump seemed to be in a bad mood. Not as upbeat as he usually comes across.
Synopsis:
Biden: People are dying. We need to be safe before we can be successful and live as we did.
Trump: Let's get back to work. We were doing great, so lets roll again.
Me: Everything that went bad was mostly self-inflicted and entirely by the left. Unless you think Trump is a leftist, the choice should be obvious.
Biden lied about his response to the Wuhan flu.
Biden lied about his response to antifa violence.
Biden lied about his former support of Crazy Bernie Sander's evil ideas.
Biden lied about one or both of his sons, taking advantage of the service to the country of one son and lying about the criminality of the other son. That bordered on the most evil thing I have ever seen in a presidential election, but I am sure Biden has no idea how nasty he came across as.
Biden lied so many times tonight.
That being said, a Biden-Obama 8 years would have been better than the Obama-Biden 8 years our poor long-suffering executive branch was subjected to.
HOWEVER --- God I feel so much pity for the man. At his age, to engage in such a monstrous and complicated and foolish scheme. What can he possibly be thinking? It is so so sad.
Lots of con stuff I follow is fussing about Wallace shutting down DJT interruptions.
I see that here too.
Tomorrow it’ll be fun to see how Althouse swerves so as to not fuss against DJT re his free flowing BS and interruptions. Cause that was 100% why Wallace tried to get DJT to stay true to DJT campaign promises re rules re this debate (Not to mention that enforcing this rule allows Americans to maximize the info coming to them from each of the candidates (BTW, how many folks hating on Wallace don’t get that they’’re being pro-lying-POTUSs, as long as DJT is the liar? (e.g. re debate rules, even if you don’t know other facts where Biden called out DJT as a liar, you know that you love DJT breaking promises re debate rules, so who cares if he’s lying about all the rest (that Biden referee to) re governing our country too?))). Anywho, w/o the need to feed MAGA, Althouse likes to jabber against interruptions and crosstalk. But, it’s guaranteed that she’ll be weaseling tomorrow.
My guess is that she’ll go w/: “Biden lost me because he didn’t explain why his kid got millions from a gal in Moscow.”
This time the Russia conspiracy isn’t a hoax!!
P.S. Going w/ Althouse jabbering re Biden’s kid and China dough would be cool too. But not as cool as Russia jabber. IMHO.
Blogger Mid-Life Lawyer said..."Trump cannot shut up long enough for Biden to hang himself."
Biden's answers were complete bloviation, I'm not sure he gave a single substantive response, but Trump talked over them so much he hid that fact.
"Biden starts to answer you can sense he is about to mess up, or reveal that he does not have great ideas or substance and then Trump interrupts him and saves Biden from himself."
I felt that way too. Joe would start wandering and started to say stupid, weird stuff and Trump would interrupt to call him on the stupid stuff instead of letting Joe try to finish a thought that was going nowhere. Trump saved Joe Trump many times.
Next time he needs to just stand by, take notes of points and if Joe actually finishes a complete thought, THEN hit him.
The Charlottesville lie lived again. Althouse , do you see how insignificant your outrage is to the media and the Democrats? They push your concerns for truth aside as if they know you will not really act on it.
Twas a shit show one had to see to believe. No one actually one it. The best that can be said is that they survived it.
Trump easily won on the substance, but he may have lost on the style. I agree that he interrupted way too much.
Biden did much better than I expected, Trump slightly worse than I hoped.
I never dreamed Chris Wallace would be so terrible. The moderators only get worse going forward.
Biden wasn’t particularly coherent, but he lasted the full 12 rounds. Trump fed his own ego, but I can’t imagine he picked up any votes. And “stand back and stand by” will go down as the quote of the night.
Trump screwed up, as others have mentioned, by not just leaving Biden to follow his train wreck of thought. He also failed to follow up several of Biden's obvious lies, i.e. fine people on both sides. But one thing he did manage do several times: He made Biden disavow several Sanders/AOC platform points, which in the end may well spell the election.
adSs: "This time the Russia conspiracy isn’t a hoax!!"
I feel bad for adSs here. For 4+ years he and his pals have been screaming about Russia Russia Russia Collusion(!) with zero evidence (because duh) and now that we actually are in possession of actual evidence of russia collusion on the other side adSs goes Full Readering and wants to pretend there is nothing to it.
That, my friends, is very on brand for adSs.
Very on brand indeed.
Biden may or may not have been on stimulants but Trump’s campaign ought to seriously consider giving him a Valium before the next debate.
My Mexican friend, who has never seen a bunch of rowdy Americans watch a debate like this, and who is no Trump fan, pulled me aside and said: "It was two on one. I can't believe how badly both of them treated the President. It was not fair."
I told him that Trump does that everyday with the media, and it was no big deal, and Wallace was about as friendly as they get to Trump. It's just how it works right now. I was a little embarrassed by it. We should be better.
Trump got in his own way too often.
Well, I would not have been nearly as polite as Trump was.
When Biden lied about his son, the cokehead Hunter, I am afraid I would have called Biden a f****** liar. Yes, on national television.
And Chris Wallace was a disaster: acting as if the "critical race theory" seminars were "racial sensitivity," as if "white supremacists" were a serious problem, and as if "climate science" were settled.
I have debated real white supremacists online. Yes, they are obnoxious morons, but they have played no significant role in the events of the last six months.
And, I have been following "climate science" for over half a century (I actually do have a PhD in physics from Stanford). Yes, the planet has warmed during the last two centuries, largely due to coming out of the Little Ice Age. Yes, during the last century anthropogenic CO2 has contributed to that warming.
But details matter. And, as is normally the case in any area of ongoing scientific research, those details are debatable.
Exactly what fraction of global warming during the last two centuries is due to humans? What is the likely course of global temperature during the next century? How is all this affected by naturally occurring fluctuations in the climate (like the Ice Ages)? And, above all, how do we trade off economic issues vs. climate issues?
All extremely difficult and challenging -- and unsettled -- research questions.
I wish people ignorant of science, on both sides of the debate, would stop making fools of themselves. (And, yes, I have debated "denialist" ignoramuses on climate issues, also. Trump is not one of them.)
Dave Miller in Sacramento
Wallace told or repeated a number of lies negative to Trump, but I didn't hear him do any such thing to Biden. He attacked Trump for interrupting, but not Biden. The fact that Trump is seen as capable of dealing with this, and Biden is not should be seen as an in-kind contribution from Wallace.
Too bad this wasn't an open thread.
This will be one time where the highlights are better than the debate.
anti-de Sitter space said...
Lots of con stuff I follow is fussing about Wallace shutting down DJT interruptions
You're just unreadable. It's like a long, ripping fart in text format. Hope you get your not typing it, because nobody else cares. And you owe me another two bucks for "jabber."
"I was checking out that statement about 1 in every thousand blacks has died. The figure is 97 per 100,000 so that is correct."
The figure quoted was 1 in 500, but Biden might have been forecasting at that point. However, as I have pointed out many times, this is just another example of a lack of perspective- more than 1 in 100 blacks will have died by the end of this year from all causes. Another 1+ in 100 will die next year, and the year after that. Blacks die disproportionately from pretty much every single cause of death in the top 10 except, probably, suicide.
I much have watched a different debate. My buddy and I thought Trump kicked ass.
Of course, since we live cheek to jowl with Portland, our standards are pretty low.
The apple harvest went well today. Pressing tomorrow. Our first hard cider from the new orchard.
I thought it was a draw. Biden won points because he didn't soil his pants onstage.
But others have different perspectives. This is an online poll, so take it with a bushel basket of salt, but still - wow! Considering that this is Telemundo:
https://twitter.com/danielggarza/status/1311139548706074626
Original Mike,
You are right- Biden didn't give a single answer that was substantive detail on anything- not a single one- I kept count. He wouldn't even answer yes/no questions. Were this being scored like a true debate, it would be 100-0, and if Trump were a more controlled person, it would have been 1000-0.
I see a lot of criticism of Trump over-talking Biden too much. Here is the problem- Paul Ryan tried the exact opposite tactic against Biden in 2012- it doesn't work against Biden given the moderators and the media bias- Biden didn't give any substantive answers then, either, even though he was much more mentally competent 8 years ago. Biden dominated Ryan in that debate regardless of his bloviating answers by just shutting Ryan down verbally. I think Trump was just doing to Biden what Biden did to Ryan, and what Obama actually did to Romney the last two debates- wore him like a skin suit. At the primal level, this is just alpha male/beta male stuff, but it is effective even if people try to deny it.
Imagine the hypothetical debate where Trump lets Biden answer all the questions without interrupting or changing the subject- here is how it would have gone:
Q. "What will you do to save us from the pandemic, Mr. Vice President?"
A. "That is a good question, Chris- firstly, Trump has done everything wrong and I would do everything right as soon as I am President. I remember my son Beau telling about his time as a soldier in Iraq and how his team came together and solved problems in a difficult situation. I will listen to Beau, whose mother was killed by a drunk driver. I learned that life isn't easy growing up poor in Scranton- my father struggled to put food on the table, and I learned to work hard from him."
Unless the moderator is prepared to drill down with follow-up questions, something Wallace wasn't going to do with Biden at all tonight (he didn't ask Biden for a single detail that I noted), then that answer would be treated like it was brilliant by all the talking heads on the networks. That is what Trump is up against. As it was, even with the aggressive domination, Trump also had the facts at his command pretty much the entire night- I just wish he were a bit more quick witted- Biden left numerous openings that had obvious rejoinders that Trump didn't take advantage of.
The funny thing is that for all the media's claiming that debating Trump is impossible because he lies all the time, tonight's debate almost complete count of lies were the ones Biden told- something of them so blatant that there should be an easy WaPo fact check tomorrow morning, but I know they won't even bother.
Am I the only one bothered that Chris Wallace made up an idea of "independent certification" for our election? who? What? How?
I appreciate your studious approach and cautious approach to not being biased. I dislike when you promote your son’s content because he doesn’t follow that brand and is very biased.
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