What’s happening at the NYT is an attempted coup.— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) June 4, 2020
What is happening at the NYT? Here are 2 earlier Sullivan tweets:
The Op-Ed was designed so it offers an opposite view to the Editorial board. Liberals believe that ideas should be open to debate. This should be utterly uncontroversial in a liberal paper.Here's what that refers to (I presume): "New York Times staffers revolt over publication of Tom Cotton op-ed" (CNN):
It’s important to understand that what the mob is now doing to the NYT is what they did to Evergreen University. They hate liberal institutions and they want them dismantled from within. These people are not liberal and they are a disgrace to journalism.
Staffers at The New York Times expressed dismay Wednesday over the newspaper's decision to publish an op-ed written by Republican Sen. Tom Cotton that called for the U.S. military to be deployed in cities across the country to help restore order....If you're trying to remember the Evergreen University story — here.
A parade of Times journalists tweeted a screen shot showing the headline of Cotton's piece, "Send In the Troops," with the accompanying words: "Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."...
Amid the Twitter outrage, however, editorial page editor James Bennet posted a series of tweets on Wednesday evening to explain his decision to run the op-ed.... "Times Opinion owes it to our readers to show them counter-arguments, particularly those made by people in a position to set policy. We understand that many readers find Senator Cotton's argument painful, even dangerous...We believe that is one reason it requires public scrutiny and debate."...
"Attempted coup" is strong language, but I am glad to see Sullivan taking this position and glad the NYT is keeping the op-ed tradition alive. It's important!
ADDED: The frenzied desire to blot out Tom Cotton's opinion displays fear that it's effective and hard to controvert. If Cotton's opponents think his opinion is so horribly wrong, they should welcome his putting it out there, clear and brightly lit. Then they should slam it to hell on the merits. But no, they've gone into a weak victim mode and demand protection from the scary power of Cotton's ideas.
পোস্টগুলি
১৩১টি মন্তব্য:
But publishing a taliban honcho is fine.
I'd bet that the NYT sees the opinion as so ridiculous that it will support their position to run it. Far from being a counterargument to consider.
The same thing happened in the 60s, as Wayne Booth noted in _Modern Dogma & the Rhetoric of Assent_. Each side republishes the others' stuff without comment.
The dean's job back then, he said, was fund-raising and riot control.
"What’s happening at the NYT is an attempted coup."
What's happening at the NYT is the coup was pulled off some time ago and Sullivan is only now becoming aware of it.
I mean, seriously. Did he really think, a month, a year, or a decade ago, that the NYT was interested in publishing counter-opinions?
Last night, many NYT journalists posted on Twitter "Running this [editorial] puts black @NYTimes staff in danger". Then they told a NYT reporter (anonymously) that their anon sources told them they'd no longer give them info.
This should be utterly uncontroversial in a liberal paper.
Should be? It is uncontroversial in a liberal newspaper. But it was published in the New York Times, which stopped being liberal decades ago. The first rule of calling yourself a liberal in a Western country (including, and especially, the United States) is that you must reject all liberal values.
Sullivan predicted a wave of riots four years ago.
I am not a fan of this cultural moment in time.
It's not complicated. Dissent is good, courageous, noble, and all that is holy if it is directed at the right, conservatism, Western civilization, white straight men, Christianity, etc.
Dissent must be obliterated if it is aimed at anything on the left.
"I ain't never heard, seen, nor smelt an idea so dangerous you couldn't at least talk about it!" -- Stephen Hopkins, 1776
"Oh! Oh! I'm in danger! Someone expressed an idea I don't agree with!" -- NYT, 2020
Maybe this should be a good working theory:
If the opinions in paper you read do not get your dander up at least 60% of the time, then you should admit that it is just a propaganda piece for your political party.
Cotton was very clear to distinguish between protestors and rioters, and to support the protestors right to protest.
So I assume everyone disagreeing with Cotton does so in support of the rioters.
Noted.
There shall be NO opinion or argument outside of the leftwing group-think.
Obey.
DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS
Immediate recourse to "This puts us in danger." Politically incorrect ideas are violence and politically correct violence is protected expression. What a world we have made for ourselves.
Yes, I agree 100% with Althouse. Petty tyrants and traitors to the Constitution like Tom Cotton should be featured in the NY Times for all to see. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
It's time every one let their freak flag fly.
They're outraged that the house organ of the Democratic Media Complex has to pretend there are other opinions than their own.
"Social Justice" is more than an ideology, it's an all-consuming civil religion for the unchurched. To oppose it is to be evil, full stop. Against evil, any weapon or action is automatically sanctified.
Acknowledging the existence of other opinions is sinful, as it distracts from the mission of smiting the unrighteous.
What kind of bizzaro world am I living in when the free press is our biggest advocate for censorship?
The News Guild of New York then backed up the journalists who said they were in danger.
NY Times editors are going to issue a death fatwa against Cotton.
This is not a whole lot different than Vic Fangio (Denver Broncos Head Coach) who was forced to apologize for saying that he did not see any racism in the (75% Black) NFL.
Heresy will not be tolerated.
There is only one way to think. Get your mind straight.
One of the reasons we conservatives laugh at progressives is their penchant for projection. I believe Sullivan might have even penned one of the terms himself, epistemic closure. How they point and proclaim their foes to be closed off, not open to other pints of view, not willing to empathize or ponder how others feel. Then we see objective evidence presented like this NYT kerfuffle. Expose NYT staff and readers to ANY opposing opinion or even simply a headline suggesting a deviance from current prof orthodoxy and they go apeshit. Progressives exposed to common sense conservatism always squeal like dying vampires trapped in full sunlight.
So Andy’s still writing eh?
If Cotton's opponents think his opinion is so horribly wrong, they should welcome his putting it out there, clear and brightly lit.
What a 1960's thing to day.
Today's liberals don't believe they should have to justify their arguments or listen to counterarguments.
Their science is settled.
I think a majority opinion supports Cotton. So as you said, Althouse, it's an attempt to blot out (and make repulsive) something that may work against what they support.
Tom Cotton tweeted out that the rioters should be given "no quarter". In other words, he was suggesting that U.S. forces commit war crimes (under both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ) against U.S. citizens.
He now claims he did not know what "no quarter" means; a bit of a stretch for a Harvard educated lawyer who became an Army Officer (granted he was an infantry officer, not JAG).
His rhetoric is beyond the pale and should not be given space in a national newspaper.
Sullivan, agree with him or not, is at least consistent on this topic. The NYT has been working on becoming a laughingstock for years. They have achieved it fully. That this op-ed is triggering their soft-hearted staff is a shining example of what our universities have been cranking out for years now. These are not intellectual giants, but they are typical of todays Journalist!
The Left will not accept any opinion- words or thoughts- that stray from the 'accepted' narrative. The trick is that what is accepted, changes, and it depends on who's in charge in any given place at any given time. But the overarching theme is that there will be no straying from the narrative. Only 'pure' thoughts can be acceptable to be published, spoken, written, thought. The Left will rest only when everyone has the same thoughts and words. Those who stray will be removed, tarnished, destroyed, put away. There can only be unanimity of thought and words. Nothing else.
Sound familiar? Well it should. You had an entire century that just passed 20 years ago in which millions and millions of people were 'vanished' for having impure thoughts or words. Today's countries of Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, and of course, China, continue to 'disappear' people with impure thoughts or words. Still wondering how the NBA rationalizes their butt kissing of the Chinese leadership, while they denounce their own country as the terror.
This is where the left is now. Like something out of a George Orwell or Aldous Huxley novel. It's here in real time, acting out, working hard to destroy the nation. And make no mistake: Trump is a social aberration, but he is not the totalitarian. He is not the fascist. The Democrat Party represents totalitarianism now. They are the fascists- like the left always has been. It's their DNA. Sullivan is talking about Classical Liberalism. Todays 'liberals' are not even in the same house.
You vote them in, you'll have much much more of this.
Bad link to the Evergreen story (not that I didn’t know it already). I was just surprised to learn that Evergreen is still alive. Says something that Evergreen is dying while Falwell’s Liberty University is thriving.
what's happening to NYC? Looks like it's burning, looted, and smashed to bits.
Anyone at the NYT care? Oh right 'We're on your side, Antifa+Occupy! Go you!'
Oh right - blame the destruction of a deep blue city on the "evil right wingers" .
even tho there aren't any. anywhere.
You know - the Juicy Smolette accusation.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/04/americas-elites-attend-the-court-of-king-mob-where-there-can-be-no-justice-no-peace-and-no-truth/
I'm seeing a lot of people on Twitter saying that Cotton is recommending that Trump do a Tienanmen Square massacre in the U.S., maybe even a whole bunch of massacres, one for each city with protests. Apparently they're too stupid to notice that "overwhelming force" is not the same thing as "overwhelming violence" and does not imply the use of violence. Grabbing rioters, looters, and arsonists against their will, subduing any resistance offered, cuffing them, stuffing them into paddy wagons, and hauling them off to cells will involve a lot of force if they resist, but no violence. Of course, violence (stabbing, shooting, or beating 'protestors') is perfectly justified if the looters are themselves armed and refuse to drop their weapons immediately when ordered, but that's a whole 'nother issue.
In explaining to Latin students the difference between the singular and plural meanings of the noun vis, where the singular means "violence" and the plural (vires as in ultra vires) means "strength, power", I tell them to think of the difference between boxing and wrestling. A wrestler who starts punching his opponent in the face or other tender parts of the body will be immediately disqualified, but that's just what a boxer needs to do. Wrestlers, like soldiers and policement arresting criminals, use force, but not violence, unless the criminals turn violent.
To the left there is no difference between the protesters and the rioters. They just are using different rhetorical styles.
satire is dead,
https://www.dailywire.com/news/lego-requests-affiliates-pull-mareketing-for-police-fire-play-sets-following-george-floyds-death-report-says
All the news fit to print, er opinions that we agree with.
Staffers at The New York Times expressed dismay Wednesday over the newspaper's decision to publish an op-ed written by Republican Sen. Tom Cotton that called for the U.S. military to be deployed in cities across the country to help restore order....
-------============
but but
does that not show that Cotton is NAZI?!
Howard said...
Yes, I agree 100% with Althouse. Petty tyrants and traitors to the Constitution like Tom Cotton should be featured in the NY Times for all to see. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
It's time every one let their freak flag fly.
***********
Sure, Howard: why bother to refute an argument when you can just shit all over the person making it?
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/the-bloodletting-and-wilding-is-part-of-an-agenda-to-tear-down-the-country/
Feeder Federson does not believe in free speech and open debate. He advocates for an oppressive, human rights denying ideology.
His beliefs are beyond the pale and should not be given space in a blog that believed in freedom of speech.
"Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."...
It seems like just yesterday left wingers posing as liberals attacked those critical of campus extremism by claiming they were only kids with no influence. Today the same ideas those kids advanced are asserted by NYT staff. This is years after The Atlantic staff did the same thing so it's hardly unique, it's just rare such backroom power plays become public knowledge.
It seems you can tell where "mainstream" left institutions are headed by watching far left institutions which are immune to public opinion.
Can Sullivan bring himself to deny the election interference and attempted coup of a freely and fairly elected American president?
Freder pounces on “no quarter” but conveniently ignores “no justice no peace” and so we see what dishonest Trolls choose to take literally. LOLGF Buddy!
Members inside a bubble invariably find outside-the-bubble information dangerous to their survival. I've seen so much Sci-Fi that shows this to be true.
The NYT has been working on becoming a laughingstock for years. They have achieved it fully.
Academic liberal TDS sufferer J. Coyne posts Trying to cancel my New York Times subscription
"Attempted" coup? Methinks the left is already in charge, and only an occasional bit of wrongthink gets through.
"The frenzied desire to blot out Tom Cotton's opinion displays fear that it's effective and hard to controvert."
No. A nice liberal might think that, but that's not how it works among progs. It's effective only as evidence of right-wing evil, and there's nothing to controvert.
"If Cotton's opponents think his opinion is so horribly wrong, they should welcome his putting it out there, clear and brightly lit. Then they should slam it to hell on the merits."
A nice liberal might think that, but that's not how it works among progs. Putting wrong ideas out there stains the cause, and everyone knows you don't argue with or against evil. What do "merits" have to do with it?
"But no, they've gone into a weak victim mode and demand protection from the scary power of Cotton's ideas."
A nice liberal might think that, but that's not how it works among progs. They are not acting like victims but like fighters who sense an opportunity to prevail. Sullivan is closer to the mark.
I had my op-ed published in the OWH today. On the law and facts, I supported the decision of the Democrat County Attorney not to file charges in the death of a young black man on Saturday. A valid self-defense case was made and the prosecutor exercised his discretion.
Two lawyer friends think my safety is at risk. They also think I’m nuts and the country has gone off the rails.
The County Attorney is now going to petition for a grand jury.
Stupidly I wrote the piece, in part, because I wanted to use “argle-bargle” in print. I also borrowed the following from the movie “Open Range” : The duty of the County Attorney is to seek justice; not vengeance. Those are two different things.
Freder Frederson said...His rhetoric is beyond the pale and should not be given space in a national newspaper.
If he said "no quarter" in the Times, you might have an argument. But are you actually saying that someone who says "no quarter" should ever be published in the Times?
While we're on the subject of people making claims they don't understand, The Geneva Conventions don't apply to rioters. Never did, never will.
Intellectual arguments for censorship are being developed in our universities and then are being exported to the larger society.
Speech must be censored when it hurts the feelings of marginal students at the universities. Too many university students are being enrolled who cannot and will not read at the university level.
When the inevitable academic failures happen, however, the university's foolish enrollment policy cannot be blamed. Rather, the non-readers' academic failures are blamed on the many micro-aggressions that prevent non-readers from studying effectively.
For example, sombreros at fraternity parties or various Halloween costumes might hurt the feelings of some marginal students and eventually cause them to fail academically. Therefore, such clothing must be controlled strictly by the university's diversity administrators.
Likewise, controversial speakers appearing at the university might offend some marginal students and cause them to fail academically. Therefore, the university diversity administrators likewise must prevent such speakers from appearing, speaking and discussing issues.
The university students who have mastered such principles -- praise-worthy principles that defend marginalized persons from having their feelings hurt -- eventually graduate and get jobs at institutions such as The New York Times. During their entire future professional careers, these university graduates will implement the principles that foster the censorship of speech in order to protect society.
I am not so confident as AA that the reporters even think about the content of the op ed. I think they just object to any dissent. Dissent is actually harmful. Hence the “puts at risk” stuff. They really truly believe dissent endangers them.
Freder: The more beyond the pale remarks from our political leaders, the more important it is to publish and make highly visible.
We need to do more to make these people feel free to go on unrestrained streams of subconsciousness to identify and expose them for the coming reckoning at the ballot box.
Oh! And then a really popular (and normally level headed) left Twitter person suggested that gay people who don't support LGBT rights laws should be outed. So obviously inferring one of two Republicans making news yesterday needed to be outed for wrong think.
The Evergreening of America -- I like the concept.
But at Evergreen, there was a way out. It was just Evergreen. At what point does Evergreening take over and swamp the rest of us?
See, Althouse, you provide a public service by being you and doing what you do.
Howard said...
Yes, I agree 100% with Althouse. Petty tyrants and traitors to the Constitution like Tom Cotton should be featured in the NY Times for all to see. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
I know Howard is only trolling, so this is not for Howard.
Exactly what is the function of govt? Its not a tough question, we have documents. The Federal Constitution, Each State has a Constitution. Counties and Cities have charters.
Primary, is to provide for safety of its citizens.
Thats why tax $ pay for Police and Fire.
Federalism, somethingleftist employ when it's convenient, actually governs ALL the time. It is not a switch that gets turned on and off.
When the Federal govt sees the State a Local Gov's lack the assets or leadership to carry out their duties, the Federal govt has the power to PROTECT CITIZENS.
What is the safest way to protect citizens in circumstances where criminal thugs are destroying, and, looting, property, and risking the lives of citizens?
An overwhelming show of man power and firepower.
Overwhelming is the key. Overwhelming is the key to an almost 100% probability not a single violent encounter happens.
President Trump is 100% correct. Leftist mayors are scared and feckless. Scared for their own safety? Hell no. Scared they wont get invited to right cocktail party.
Vote Democrat and Vote to sacrifice your own freedom, and property. Democrats don't believe either belong to you. ("You didn't build that", is the democrat rallying cry.)
Hawaiian shirts, made of Cotton...
Coincidence?
editorial page editor James Bennet
Former editor-in-chief of The Atlantic. St. Albans and Yale. Younger brother of the Colorado Senator. Father and grandfather worked in Roosevelt's, Carter's and Clinton's administration. Father also worked for Humphrey and Eagleton. Also head of Wesleyan University and NPR.
Jamie's a third generation swamp creature, the sort of person who seems to exist more in conservatives' imagination than in reality, until one of them surfaces. For some people he would be a hopeless liberal lefty, for others a pillar of the White liberal establishment.
This is quite a fight. It's like the old battles between The Nation and The New Republic. The Nation was hopelessly, madly, impossibly left-wing, but The New Republic was always so smugly superior, arrogant and sure of itself. The rebels may be repellent, but they could attract a little sympathy for the scrappy underdogs.
Some serious Wrongthink in here, Althouse.
Irrespective of cruel neutrality, if we stick around long enough after this generation gains power we WILL all be made to decide. Consider your response carefully.
Freder said..
"Tom Cotton tweeted out that the rioters should be given "no quarter". In other words, he was suggesting that U.S. forces commit war crimes (under both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ) against U.S. citizens.
He now claims he did not know what "no quarter" means; a bit of a stretch for a Harvard educated lawyer who became an Army Officer (granted he was an infantry officer, not JAG)."
Not true. Tom Cotton said he was using the colloquial (and dictionary) definition of no quarter...the way people actually use the phrase today. Disagree with that definition if you want, but he didn't say he doesn't know what the word means.
The NYT prints just enough token 'balance' to not spook the aged middle-of-the-road liberals.
That way those readers can pretend the rest isn't just propaganda.
It is the equivalent of "I have a black friend...."
I am Laslo.
It's time every one let their freak flag fly.
Howard's is getting a bit tattered.
I kind of agree with Freder. Let the leftist freaks burn NYC to the ground, like Detroit. The residents voted for Cuomo and Warren Wilhelm Jr so let them get the result "good and hard" as Mencken would put it.
There is a funny screed today on Insty pointing out that us "gun nuts" have no interest in saving the loony left from their folly. The Democrat cities are burning down. Not much damage in red neck areas. The thousands protesting gun laws were called "Domestic Terrorists." I think the difference between them and the real thing is pretty obvious now.
Freder Frederson said...
Tom Cotton tweeted out that the rioters should be given "no quarter". In other words, he was suggesting that U.S. forces commit war crimes (under both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ) against U.S. citizens
From thegrammerist.com;
Eventually, give no quarter took on a figurative meaning of showing no mercy, usually applied in negotiation situations. Related phrases are gives no quarter, gave no quarter, giving no quarter.
Freder fails to evolve with the times. Stuck back in time centuries. But like leftist everywhere, lies are absolutely the only argument they have.
Andrew Sullivan is part of the "eat me last" crowd. If la revolucion ever gets off the ground, the Left will review with a jaundiced eye some of Sully's more "conservative" past opinion columns, such as praising George W Bush for his Iraq War.
And then he will be shot, as all useful idiots are.
Carry on. Comrades
Reason No. 487 why Althouse is a national treasure:
The frenzied desire to blot out Tom Cotton's opinion displays fear that it's effective and hard to controvert. If Cotton's opponents think his opinion is so horribly wrong, they should welcome his putting it out there, clear and brightly lit. Then they should slam it to hell on the merits. But no, they've gone into a weak victim mode and demand protection from the scary power of Cotton's ideas.
The Left does not believe in the free exchange of ideas. They believe in woke leftism and seek to blot out opposing ideas, by censor or force, if necessary.
Carry on, Comrades.
"The New York Times," as Andrew Klavan likes to say, "a former newspaper . . ."
And I'm sure that they're not at all concerned that Tom Cotton could be President or VP five years from now.
Freder Frederson said, "His rhetoric is beyond the pale and should not be given space in a national newspaper."
Censorship, not patriotism, is the last vestige of the scoundrel.
The millions of people who bought online subscriptions to the NYT after the last election did NOT do so to encounter opinions that conflict with their deeply held beliefs.
The Times now exists to preach to a choir whose members mistakenly assume that subscription to a deeply flawed publication endows them with elite status.
The cost to the paper of this new profitable business model is irrelevance.
The millions of people who bought online subscriptions to the NYT after the last election did NOT do so to encounter opinions that conflict with their deeply held beliefs.
The Times now exists to preach to a choir whose members mistakenly assume that subscription to a deeply flawed publication endows them with elite status.
The cost to the paper and its cool-kids fan club is, increasingly, irrelevance.
Had I read "no quarter" in the original context I would have thought no place of impunity to loot and burn.
The left knows all about planning Coups.
The left knows all about planning Coups!!
Cotton's op ed should be expunged. As a matter of fact the historic New York Times should be reviewed and any offending picture, column or story should be removed and replaced with a picture of comrade Stalin.
Wow! NYT seditionists resent even a drop in their bucket of bile.
This will not end well.
The Evergreen link still is not fixed.
Michael K said...
Let the leftist freaks burn NYC to the ground, like Detroit. The residents voted for Cuomo and Warren Wilhelm Jr so let them get the result "good and hard" as Mencken would put it.
It's true that NYC is overwhelmingly left, but believe it or not, it is important to the US economy. And not for nuthin', but the greatest concentration of conservatives per square mile anywhere in the United States is the island of Manhattan. Easy to forget since they are outnumbered, but there are many hundreds of thousands of solid conservatives in King's County.
Pravda on the Hudson. The New York Times newsroom and editorial board have been engaged in a journalistic jihad against the truth for 30 years or more now. Their alternate reality pervades their writing. I probably shouldn't have used the adjective "journalistic" to describe what they are doing.
In some ways it's a shame. If you looked at an edition of the NYT in say the Carter administration (they weren't on a crusade against Jimmy) the news stories were tightly written and reasonably objective. You got the news, and the reporter laid out the facts, in a few short paragraphs. But that was then and this is now.
The Times should be happy. They just killed "Tom Cotton for President" forever.
Meh. It's a buyer's market right now for media businesses needing journalists. Go ahead, spout off meatheads, there are plenty standing by to replace you. Then maybe you can take the opportunity to learn to code.
Iowan2. You people say hose who crave safety cannot be free in regards Covid 19. But it's safety Uber Alles send in the Marines, helicopters, tear gas, rubber bullets, roid-ragers wielding night sticks when negros demonstrate and a tiny fraction loot.
The Leftist Collectivists are beset by mass cognitive dissonance.
You can observe them holding two dissonant thoughts simultaneously.
It's laughable.
Watching the Leftist Collectivists as they watch politics is similar to watching a fan of a sports team watch a game. The refs always blow every call in favor of the other side. The other side gets away with everything. Their team never does anything wrong. Even in super-slo-mo they cannot be persuaded to observe without bias.
It is a stupid way to live.
And dangerous in the extreme.
Andrew Sullivan sided with these same anti-liberal people when he went all in on Barack Hussein Obama.
He has zero credibility.
The reckoning at the ballot box?
Explain the math, please.
Trump will win 15-20% of the black vote.
Trump will win 35-40% of the latino vote.
Those numbers mean an increase of 10% for Trump across 25% of the voting population, and that represents a 5% net swing toward Trump, all else equal.
So explain what you mean, troll.
"If you're trying to remember the Evergreen University story — here." "here" did not link for me.
Sullivan looking around and finding himself surrounded by monkey politics.
Don't worry, though- Sullivan will get his mind right one way or another.
What sort of idiot thinks that the Far Left ever supported free speech. For the Marxists, free speech was a bourgeois value, meant to mask the fact that the bourgeoisie controlled the means of information. For the post-Marxists, there's no truth, there's just competing discourses. For your favorite discourse to become the regnant one, it's really helpful to just shut down all other opposing discourses.
How can Sullivan be surprised? (I doubt he really is). He knows what rules these guys play by.
iowan2: "Freder fails to evolve with the times."
Nope. Freder and Howard and Inga just keep tossing in more lies and misrepresentations to support their lying and deflect from all their previous lies.
Howard is still pretending the park police used tear gas on Monday evening and he has moved seamlessly from his hoax russia collusion traitor accusations to now Tom Cotton is a traitor fir wanting law and order reestablished.
Btw, according to Morning Consult, 58% of all Americans want the military used to reestablish order including a majority of democrats.....which means Howard just called a majority of democrats traitors!
Which is funny.
NYPD has 36,000 officers and is the largest police department by far in the country. The debate about sending in US troops is a red herring. It is Mayor De Commieo who refuses to employ the resources at his disposal.
Meanwhile, LA Mayor Garcetti proposes cutting the LAPD budget by $100 to $150 million. Is he serious or merely pulling a Trump troll.
When someone has no substantive argument, they look for something, anything to seize upon - grammar, punctuation, an overly legalistic definition of a term . . . .
What Cotton obviously meant was rioting and looting ought not be tolerated - which appears to be the "program" of everyone clutching their pearls over Cotton's "Op-Ed."
So, if we have to choose between those of you who are on the side of the looters & rioters, or those who aren't ...
Yeah, I'll take Cotton's side.
Wa St Blogger said...
If the opinions in paper you read do not get your dander up at least 60% of the time, then you should admit that it is just a propaganda piece for your political party.
6/4/20, 8:19 AM
Sorry but people don't read papers and especially the NYT to be informed or to be assaulted by differing ideas and opinions.
'Evergreen' = HRC's secret service code name
...where the hell did they come up with that?
Freder supports vandals, looters, arsonist and battery. According to Freder that is free speech. Good to know. Others might view puting a bullet in the head of a vandal, looter, arsonist or someone commiting battery as their free speech. Different folks, different strokes.
Freder Frederson said...
Tom Cotton tweeted out that the rioters should be given "no quarter".
He now claims he did not know what "no quarter" means; a bit of a stretch for a Harvard educated lawyer who became an Army Officer (granted he was an infantry officer, not JAG).
6/4/20, 8:33 AM
Why? It turned out to be no stretch at all the the country had a two term POTUS that taught constitutional law but didn't know the first thing about the constitution.
I recall as a young reporter being admonished by my editors to play my stories straight down the middle, seek opposing viewpoints, check my facts, own up to my mistakes, and avoid even the appearance of bias on and off the job.
Seems so quaint now.
Sullivan inadvertently lets the cat outta the bag, using the term “coup” rather than, say, “hostile takeover.”
Same group revolted over a favorable-ish headline regarding Trump. It was altered to appease.
"Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."
Just tell them to stop throwing bricks through windows...
You’re lucky you’re approaching seventy, Althouse. Of course I wish you another forty happy earthly years but you lived your best years during the best times. I’m forty and I have children from 2-18. This is quite a dumpster fire to look forward to for another fifty years for me and a quarter century for them. A lot of mayhem is in store for us. Clear eyes; full heart. The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is safe. Proverbs 29:25
Howard said...
Freder: The more beyond the pale remarks from our political leaders, the more important it is to publish and make highly visible.
We need to do more to make these people feel free to go on unrestrained streams of subconsciousness to identify and expose them for the coming reckoning at the ballot box."
Why yes Howard. You're on to something. But not what you think. The cops and fireman in the Left run cities where the vandalism, looting and arson are being allowed by elected officials should express their free speech by staying home. Let those cities burn and let the Lefty politicians justify their anti-police position. Like Obama said, elections have consequences. Then after the election when they beg Congress for money, Trump should tell them to go fuck themselves. You burned it, you fix it.
You know you're in trouble when some people at the New York Times think the paper is not left-leaning enough.
Beginning with the classical (old fashioned liberalism), liberals are divergent, typically generational, sectarian, etc. #PrinciplesMatter
..they've gone into a weak victim mode and demand protection from the scary power of Cotton's ideas."
--
Aka 1st amendment for me, cancellation and deplatforming for thee.
Drama queen reviews drama queen paper.
The problem as the NYT sees it is not that Cotton is right or wrong, but that a lot of their local readers agree with him.
What is needed in a situation that is spiraling out of control is not to back off and let the city burn, but to come in with overwhelming presence.
In a a city where lawyers are tossing fire bombs, the NYT may have some black reporters who are rioting.
Howard: "Iowan2. You people say hose who crave safety cannot be free in regards Covid 19. But it's safety Uber Alles send in the Marines, helicopters, tear gas, rubber bullets, roid-ragers wielding night sticks when negros demonstrate and a tiny fraction loot."
LOL
Yeah, that's an accurate description of what's going on, isn't it?
Brad: "What Cotton obviously meant was rioting and looting ought not be tolerated - which appears to be the "program" of everyone clutching their pearls over Cotton's "Op-Ed."
Overwhelming numbers present always stops problems before they start.
Howard and Freder have to pretend this isn't true to push today's lefty lunatic talking points.
JBlog yep and back then awards were given for good reporting and good writing. Now J Awards are for the “correct” politics. If read Cotton. He’s a good clear thinker and writer.
New Yorker 'Toon
Warning: Socially Distanced but no masks..and SHORTS!
It's true that NYC is overwhelmingly left, but believe it or not, it is important to the US economy. And not for nuthin', but the greatest concentration of conservatives per square mile anywhere in the United States is the island of Manhattan. Easy to forget since they are outnumbered, but there are many hundreds of thousands of solid conservatives in King's County.
Not for long is my estimate. Telecommuting is going to empty the Democrat shit houses, I think. San Francisco is pretty and may remain as an island of billionaires but LA, east of the 405, is nothing special. New York is a pest house living on memories of those like the movie "Laura."
Tom Cotton tweeted out that the rioters should be given "no quarter". In other words, he was suggesting that U.S. forces commit war crimes (under both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ) against U.S. citizens.
Well, Freder, we could have the military put down the riots in an orderly fashion ... or we could have the citizenry do it the messy way.
Keep it up, and you won't have a choice.
Freder supports vandals, looters, arsonist and battery. According to Freder that is free speech.
When have I ever said anything remotely like that? I oppose war crimes and calls for "no quarter". If anything, that demonstrates that I am against battery.
Not true. Tom Cotton said he was using the colloquial (and dictionary) definition of no quarter...the way people actually use the phrase today. Disagree with that definition if you want, but he didn't say he doesn't know what the word means.
Tom Cotton is either a complete dumbass or a liar (I am not going to rule out he is both). See discussion below.
Eventually, give no quarter took on a figurative meaning of showing no mercy, usually applied in negotiation situations. Related phrases are gives no quarter, gave no quarter, giving no quarter.
If Cotton were referring to negotiations on some Senate bill, I could buy this definition. But he was specifically referring to the actions of the military. "No quarter" has a very specific meaning and is specifically prohibited by the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions.
While we're on the subject of people making claims they don't understand, The Geneva Conventions don't apply to rioters. Never did, never will.
You are making a claim that you don't understand. The Geneva Conventions most definitively do apply to the treatment of civilians by combatants (and civil authorities btw), including rioters and other criminals. Whether they would apply to U.S. military against U.S. citizens in the U.S. is an open question. But you don't need to address it as "no quarter" orders are specifically declared illegal in the UCMJ Section 5.5.7 of the UCMJ:
" Prohibition Against Declaring That No Quarter Be Given. It is forbidden to declare that no quarter will be given. This means that it is prohibited to order that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees, such as unprivileged belligerents, will be summarily executed. Moreover, it is also prohibited to conduct hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors, or to threaten the adversary with the denial of quarter.
This rule is based on both humanitarian and military considerations. This rule also applies during non-international armed conflict."
Note the use of "unprivileged belligerents", that includes rioters.
I couldn't follow the link to the Evergreen story, but I assume it's about The Evergreen State College ... not University.
I live five minutes from that cesspool. Violence from the thugs who attend it is a feature for them. Not a bug.
I've said it before, many times: I despise, detest, and distrust the NYT. The WaPoo, too.
Aggie said...
Meh. It's a buyer's market right now for media businesses needing journalists. Go ahead, spout off meatheads, there are plenty standing by to replace you. Then maybe you can take the opportunity to learn to code.
Coding requires a somewhat logical mind, no former journalist need apply.
Slate reporting record rate of subscription cancellations in hours after op-ed went up.
Not me.
Perhaps a good time for commenters here to start subscribing in solidarity.
“Blogger Sebastian said...
The Evergreening of America -- I like the concept.“
Evergreen New Deal?
“Blogger rehajm said...
"Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."
Just tell them to stop throwing bricks through windows...”
An idea so crazy, it just might work!
Bundy Case Liar Freder: "Tom Cotton is either a complete dumbass or a liar"
You just described yourself perfectly.
And in your case its both.
Bay Area Guy said...
The Left does not believe in the free exchange of ideas. They believe in woke leftism and seek to blot out opposing ideas, by censor or force, if necessary.
Carry on, Comrades.
And if you don't bow to the wishes of the party some "protesters" will be sent over to "protest" at your house or business.
Freder Frederson said...
Freder supports vandals, looters, arsonist and battery. According to Freder that is free speech.
When have I ever said anything remotely like that? I oppose war crimes and calls for "no quarter". If anything, that demonstrates that I am against battery"
Then you are in favor of using the necessary for to stop the battery , arson and looting?
] A second derivation, given equal prominence in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), is that quarter (n.17) can mean "Relations with, or conduct towards, another" as in Shakespeare Oth. II. iii. 180, "Friends all..In Quarter, and in termes like Bride, and Groome." So "no quarter" may also mean refusal to enter into an agreement (relations) with an enemy attempting to surrender. The OED mentions a third possible derivation but says "The assertion of De Brieux (1672 Origines..de plusieurs façons de parler, 16) that it arose in an agreement between the Dutch and Spaniards, by which the ransom of an officer or private was to be a quarter of his pay, is at variance with the constant sense of the phrases give and receive quarter."
Cotton's usage of the term "show no quarter is backed up by dictionaries as far back as the 1600's
Leftist are such a hoot. Get their knickers all in twist because they don't understand the language. Modern colloquialism, or century old dictionaries, Cotton is in command of the dialog.
But the most important thing, President Trump and Senator Cotton are correct, that a massive show of forces, and firepower, will assure the most safety for rioters and protesters alike. Most important, citizens and private property will be protected...the true role of government.
Howard said...
traitors to the Constitution like Tom Cotton
Which "Constitution" is that? the Constitution of the US Communist Party?
Because the US Constitution only protect peaceful assembly
Howard: "Iowan2. You people say hose who crave safety cannot be free in regards Covid 19. But it's safety Uber Alles send in the Marines, helicopters, tear gas, rubber bullets, roid-ragers wielding night stickswhen negros demonstrate and a tiny fraction loot."
Tiny fraction? Sure, a tiny fraction has caused $billions in property damage, killing and maiming hundreds. Tiny Fraction. You need serious help with your numeracy.
This televised funeral is schlock. Rev Al Sharpton the race baiter and hukster, abusing a mourning family for the cameras, plumping up his personal purse. Disgusting.
Has Al Sharpton paid those millions he owes in back taxes? The Treasury could use some of those millions.
"no quarter" tweets seem to be one of those dog whistles that only Freder Frederson can hear.
I'm glad that I live in a country where what I'm allowed to read is based on on Frederson's interpretations of tweets. Cottton's opinion piece was excellent.
Staffers at The New York Times expressed dismay Wednesday over the newspaper's decision to publish an op-ed written by Republican Sen. Tom Cotton that called for the U.S. military to be deployed in cities across the country to help restore order....
A parade of Times journalists tweeted a screen shot showing the headline of Cotton's piece, "Send In the Troops," with the accompanying words: "Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."...
What was left off...and in a show of solidarity the journalists threw themselves on the floor kicking and screaming, calling Cotton a poopy head and then holding their breath till they passed out.
Blogger readering said...
Slate reporting record rate of subscription cancellations in hours after op-ed went up.
You mean you were not on the secret. You must know that op-ed was a secret plan to kill off the NY Times by sending its subscriber base insane. Lemming style.
Thank you for this post! I had glimpsed tweets re Senator Cotton, the Times, and Andrew Sullivan this morning-- but beyond knowing that something was going on or had happened, eh, no idea, didn't care enough to pursue the business. My entire interaction with the NYT today (and most days, anymore) was the crossword, although perhaps I'm exaggerating. Being retired has its pleasures, and one of them is feeling free to exercise my option to ignore public nonsense when I want to (whether that's always a good, responsible choice, eh, I'm not sure). Have been reading Jean de La Fontaine's fables and Diodorus Siculus's Bibliotheca historica this afternoon, and got pulled down the rabbit hole that is the French and English word hure; the Dictionary marks the English meanings obsolete but I don't think that the one is.
I just donated five bucks to the Tom Cotton for President Committee.
Capitulation:
https://twitter.com/marcatracy/status/1268667488356704256?s=21
"Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger."
Therefore, don't expect the truth from the NYT, expect what makes the staff feel safe.
"Liberals believe ideas should be open to debate."
Assume facts not in evidence.
Someone said:
Capitulation:
https://twitter.com/marcatracy/status/1268667488356704256?s=21
Oh, for the love of Pete. The Gutless Gray Lady. When the outrage mob speaks...CAVE.
As for the NYT, I despise, detest, and distrust it (the WaPoo, too!)
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