April 4, 2020

"We have little publicly available data about the racial makeup of those Americans who have been tested, those who have tested positive for the coronavirus..."

"... those who have been hospitalized, those who have become critically ill, those who have recovered, or those who have died from COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s information site does not offer racial data. Neither does the Johns Hopkins University database used by CNN, The New York Times’ count, nor the COVID Tracking Project. Few states, municipalities, or private labs are releasing their data by race. On Friday, the Illinois Department of Public Health became one of the few state offices to release some racial data. And the data showed a pandemic within the pandemic: African Americans are significantly overrepresented in infection rates in Illinois, while whites and Latinos are significantly underrepresented. African Americans make up 14.6 percent of the state population, but 28 percent of confirmed cases of the coronavirus. White people comprise 76.9 percent of the Illinois population, and 39 percent of the confirmed cases. Latinos comprise 17.4 percent of the state population, and 7 percent of the cases. In Illinois, Asian Americans were the only racial group without a significant disparity between their state population, at 5.9 percent, and confirmed cases, at 4 percent.... What we are seeing in Illinois could be happening nationwide—we just don’t know.... And Americans don’t seem to care to know. I suspect that some Americans believe that racial data will worsen racism.... Maybe I need to stop making everything about race, as my critics say.... Maybe some people fear that if racial data were to show that COVID-19 is disproportionately harming people of color, then white people will stop caring... Maybe there is only a class issue here...."

From "Why Don’t We Know Who the Coronavirus Victims Are?/The coronavirus is infecting and killing Americans of all races. But there’s little public data on whether the virus is having a disproportionate impact on some communities" by Ibram X. Kendi (in The Atlantic).

Another "maybe" (not mentioned by Kendi): Maybe it's a matter of pre-existing health conditions, notably diabetes.

It is interesting that the racial statistics are not getting out. I'm guessing it's either because it's difficult at this point to report them accurately or — more likely — because the officials believe that we're better off not thinking in these terms. People already feel bad about the virus, so why exacerbate the pain by making us feel that there's some evil human-made unfairness going on? And why give some people and not others a reason to think that this force of nature is picking favorites based on their race? Isn't it better to keep people feeling that we're all in this together, sharing a great human interest with the entire world?

428 comments:

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gilbar said...

Democrat governors are panicking and locking everything down because they are seeing much higher case and death rates in their electoral strongholds. As I write this over 40% of cases in Wisconsin are just in the City of Milwaukee.

Having grown up in the Chicago Suburbs; i don't understand your concern?
if anything, Dead Voters are MORE reliably democrat, and MORE likely to Vote

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

say goodbye to hugs and hand shakes?
Probably.

Shouting Thomas said...

Really, tim, the juvenile, cowardly, stupid crap you keep posting is more dangerous to people’s health than COVID-19.

Stop doing it.

Stop crapping your pants.

Achilles said...

mockturtle said...
But I'm much more concerned about my blue collar brothers and sisters who won't be fine.

Not just blue collar folk, B.A.G. Clinics and doctor's offices are closing up shop, too, from lack of business. And hospitals are laying off staff because people aren't having 'elective' procedures.

The magic word is "furlough."

They have to find a way to lay the nurses and staff off that meets union contract regs.(and so they don't have to pay them unemployment)

The hospitals don't have any "non-essential" stuff to do so nobody is getting surgery and nobody is getting admitted to the hospital and nobody is being admitted into the home health system. Every part of the health care system is getting screwed by this.

Are we all in this together? Lets find out.

I hope they print off so much money social security and retirement pensions are worthless and you retired busybodies pushing this shit have to go back to work.

I am also thinking about starting a property tax rebellion. You want to close schools? Fine. Time for the government to feel some pain too. You sit there with your paid leave government job.

OK. Fuck you too.

We are definitely not all in this together. Just watch what happens.

bagoh20 said...

On a global basis, Blacks are under-represented in the infected group, and whites over-represented, so...

Jaq said...

"So, you’re willing to give up your freedom and put millions out of work to extend the lives of the elderly obese by a few months?”

That’s some incredible obtuse denial.

Yancey Ward said...

In fact, as far as I can tell, the US is the only country that is still increasing testing, and even we plateaued for almost a week until yesterday.

Jaq said...

"Being called stupid by a moron is one of the great pleasures in life” - French Proverb

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Pretty young socialist understands. You racists.

bagoh20 said...

'say goodbye to hugs and hand shakes?"

I can live with that. I do a lot of both, but I don't really like it. Sometimes it's awkward, like when I'm dirty or have an erection, or both.

Bay Area Guy said...

@ShoutingThomas sez:

"Michael Fumento earned the hatred of intellectuals, the press and academia decades ago by correctly predicting that AIDS would remain the "gay male disease," back when the Diversity crowd was insisting that AIDS would break out and become an equal opportunity infection.

Here's what he has to say about COVID-19."

This is an important historical point, thanks ST!

I lived/worked in San Francisco during the entire AIDS epidemic, roughly 1981 through say, 2014.

In the late 80s/ early 90s, before the antivirals, one thing gnawed at us - where are all the bodies? And, more importantly, where are all the AIDS patients? We lived,worked, schooled, partied, and took BART/Muni daily with 1.3 million other people in SF, but nobody we knew or saw was getting the disease or dying from it. The only societal response, was wear a condom! (Not a huge price to pay, either) Nothing else changed. Dating continued. Partying continued. Nobody ever said, well, since you might be an asymptomatic carriers of HIV, you must stay home and never have sex again! Nobody locked down the entire City or State or country.

The point is, for anyone living and dating in SF at that time. it became clear that AIDS was localized to a tiny subculture of young gay men living dangerous unhealthy marginalized lives in the bathhouses, doing all sorts of drugs,. I was sympathetic to them then, and now. But old queens didn't get it. Lesbians didn't get it, straight young people didn't get it, either.

Michael Fumento looked at the DATA, and wrote a book, "The Myth of Hetetosexual AIDS" that pissed off a lotta folks, but he was mostly right in general, totally right about San Francisco in particular.

Can we not apply some of these historical essons to our current viral predicament?

Jaq said...

This is some great news:

Davide Piffer@DavidePiffer
·
22h
Breaking: 70% of blood donors in Castiglione d'Adda, the epicentre of the outbreak, tested positive (they had the antibodies) and none had developed any symptoms before! Lombardy is probably approaching herd immunity


A lot of people died to get there though.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, tim, you're both a coward and a moron. You really should shut up and stop disgracing yourself by crapping your pants.

Age and morbid obesity are always accompanied by diabetes, heart disease and liver disease.

We're throwing millions of young, fit people who will not be severely affected by COVID-19 out of work and into idleness and despair for no good reason.

The elderly obese are going to die no matter what we do. No medical procedures and no quarantine will save them.

Perhaps you're just too damned stupid to understand? I suggest silence on your part. You're too stupid, cowardly and just plain panicked to be out in public.

I'm not advocating abandoning or killing the elderly obese, dummy. I'm saying put the young and fit back to work. Read this several times, moron. It's going to take a while for it to sink in. Nobody is suggesting triaging the morbidly obese. You're just in a competely stupid panic.

bagoh20 said...

I have never understood why evolution would lead to diseases that sicken or kill the host. Shouldn't the most successful disease be one that makes the host more healthy, active, social and even reproductive? It should make us healthy, happy, and horny. Where is this super-disease? Can we create it?

Yancey Ward said...

Actually, Tim, if the result is general to all of Lombardy, it means the case mortality rate is going to be far under 0.5%. However, we more data than just on antibodies of a self-selected pool called blood donors. Still, I think we will eventually find that the disease has been burning through the population for months before we even knew it existed, and that most of those people were exposed and never knew that also, or didn't know about COVID-19 at the time they were sick.

The key mistake is going to be found to be admitting victims to the regular hosptials- the main difference in that case is that the staff can't be inoculated. The patients really needed to be completely segregated in different buildings with dedicated staff. No one seems to have followed this plan, though.

Achilles said...

tim in vermont said...
The UK tried the “no lockdown, protect the vulnerable” strategy, and quickly abandoned it as deaths mounted, BTW. So anybody proposing it should let us know what they would do differently.

I already posted what I would do differently many times.

You assholes just don't read it.

Then you go on and on about how we just want people to die because you are assholes who are really just limited thinkers and can't deal with complex issues like this.

Gospace said...

Michael K said...
The HVAC industry needs to think about adding air purification to their products.


Already available. Clients have to specify they want it. It's not cheap. UV in air ducts, electrostatic precipitators, it's all available.

The hard part is- finding people who will actually keep it properly maintained. One place I worked at - a state facility - I went looking for all the air filters since my "coworker" seemed to have no idea where they were. Found numerous filters collapsed from the dirt load. Simple things, changing filters, often doesn't get done.

I can guarantee that;s not the only place that has that problem.

And then you want to add making sure UV lights are working- they do wear out. And the ESPs are cleaned regularly, and their supplies are up to par..... It's not just the initial cost, it's the ongoing maintenance.

Ice Nine said...

>>Clark said...
@Ice Nine:
The risk or severity of QTc prolongation can be increased when Losartan is combined with Hydroxychloroquine.
The risk or severity of QTc prolongation can be increased when Hydrochlorothiazide is combined with Hydroxychloroquine.<<

Ok, cool. My Pharmacology textbook said no interactions, which was verified by Drugs .com. You should definitely go with your info, though

narciso said...

What i noticed early in the week, is the test backlog skewed positive, i havent checked covid tracking to update.

Jaq said...

"You're too stupid, cowardly and just plain panicked to be out in public.”

Keep beating your chest and throwing poop. It’s amusing.

mockturtle said...

As I observed in an older thread, with everyone staying home, we have no accurate way of knowing what's really going on out there. Heaven knows, we can't trust the media.

Yancey Ward said...

If, let's say, just 35% of Lombardy has been exposed to COVID-19 and has antibodies, then this makes the case mortality rate- 0.3%

320Busdriver said...

Yeah, we never had fever clinics like they do in China. Maybe we should though.

Shouting Thomas said...

Really, tim, you’re just a dummy.

Do everybody a favor and shut up. This panicked, stupid ranting you’re doing is a threat to public health.

You’re a deliberate fucking liar, too, continuing to insist that I or anybody else is advocating leaving people to die.

So, you’re a vicious, immoral son of a bitch on top of you other low life qualifies.

Yancey Ward said...

Actually, Tim, the British never implemented that plan- they locked down just like everyone else before the deaths and cases mounted- the political pushback couldn't be fought. In the end, it will all end up in the same place regardless of what plan they actually followed.

Jaq said...

" then this makes the case mortality rate- 0.3%”

And still their hospital systems were turned into a circle of Hell. Maybe the lesson is that if we going to unwind this, we need to set up separate hospitals.

“Let’s say....”

OK.

Let’s say you look at the excess deaths in the same city. They are many times higher than the official death count.

If you don’t count useless eaters, the mortality as almost zero.

Jaq said...

"So, you’re a vicious, immoral son of a bitch on top of you other low life qualifies.”

You can do better than that!

bagoh20 said...

“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
This is heartbreaking:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1246150462073536512

Narr said...

"Social Construction" is a social construction.

Here, the MSA is 1.3 million; we have the FedEx HQ (until recently the busiest cargo airport in the world, now #2); we have a respectable medical establishment with some world-leading hospitals; we have a largeish state U with a large Chinese presence (including an early but recently institutionally-distanced Confucius Institute; we have music and bbq and lots of tourists . . . at least we HAD lots of tourists.

We also have a white lib-D mayor, who defeated a young black woman activist who called him a white supremacist (he got the NBF statue down before MLK50 for her, though) and an old AA ex-mayor who can't go quietly.

Aaaand, we have a lot of youth, some of whom have prompted the mayor to go on TV and chew them out over the big street parties that break out in some neighborhoods. He has closed parks and even certain streets.

This morning's report is 706 cases in the county, with 10 deaths, and a few dozen cases each in the adjoining counties (about 9k tested). No racial or sex breakdown where I looked, and the zipcoded data is a very poor proxy for race but the stats show a much higher rate of infection for the 20-30 cohort than others.

Narr
I may recon the hospitals . . .

Shouting Thomas said...

No, I think I’ve accurately described you, Tim.

Do you have any good qualities?

Even the worst I’ve met in this life aren’t complete pieces of shit. So, I”m holding out some hope for you.

Now, stop lying, stop falsely accusing others of a predisposition to murder and see if you can find something else to occupy your time.

Bay Area Guy said...

Here's a short interview with sainted Dr. Fauci on January 21, 2020 about the Coronavirus. .

I reckon the experts sometimes get it wrong.

NCMoss said...

Ibram and AOC are just steamed that we'll "all" be getting reparation checks.

Narr said...

Please stand by for information and guidance on inserting a ")" between "Institute" and ";" in paragraph 2 of my previous post.

Narr
Lunchtime, with music by Gluck

Jaq said...

I guess I wasted my early years studying the analysis of complex problems and spent my career doing the same. Every time I got taken in by complete bullshit disguised as logic and reason, it ended up costing thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. I find spotting bullshit arguments a relaxing pastime in my retirement.

I should have just read the Bible. Who knew?

Roughcoat said...

I have no firm grasp of what's really going on with the pandemic, what to believe, what should be done.



NCMoss said...

Keep the posts civil; it's devolving into Politico-like comments.

narciso said...

Sean davis believes that murrays extrapolations as of yet do not approach teality with regards to hospital utilization. For example nj apparently has none at this time, california has 2188, ny has 14810.

Night Owl said...

I'm 63 and have chronic breathing issues.
I feel fine, however I'm willing to restrict my activities until this passes. What I won't do is insist everyone else restricts their activities and shutter their businesses to protect me.


Greg, I'm with you. I'm 57 and have asthma & allergies, and think the response to the virus is insane. At risk people, like me, should stay home if we are concerned. I'm currently working from home and can continue to do that, and let the young and healthy go about their lives and get herd immunity that will make us all safer.

I don't live my life constantly in fear of dying. No one lives forever. One of my lungs collapsed when I was a child; I spent many days in hospitals in oxygen tents gasping for air. My parents thought I wouldn't make it to adulthood. Ten years ago I was rushed to the ER because I went into anaphylactic shock from the allergy shots I had just received. I tell that story and laugh about it.

Because of my allergies, I already am in the habit of washing my hands a lot, and try to avoid touching my face. As an adult I rarely ever get a cold or the flu. But I'm also an introvert so I've been "social distancing" most of my life. But I will continue to go to the store. I'm not reckless; I use the hand sanitizer when I go, and keep my distance from others. I'm hoping to get a mild exposure and build up resistance. Kinda like getting allergy shots.

How typically selfish of boomers to think so much of themselves that they have no qualms about bequeathing a potential worldwide depression to their children and grandchildren. Years from now, if society hasn't collapsed completely, there will be many books written about the mass hysteria of 2020 that almost destroyed the world.

mockturtle said...

Per B.A.G: Here's a short interview with sainted Dr. Fauci on January 21, 2020 about the Coronavirus. .

I reckon the experts sometimes get it wrong.


In fairness to Fauci, he said at the beginning that the only thing we know for sure about this virus is that we know very little.

Anonymous said...

M Jordan said...
Dr. Birx, aka Tall Scarfed Woman in a Lab Coat, talks incessantly about what a data freak she is. Then she gives us a graph to look at which is skewed by early, bad data.


if she wanted our trust, she and the MSM should not have lied that masks were critical to keep health care workers safe, but useless, after the nurse went home to keep civilians safe.

mockturtle said...

In truth, the only people who have the real skinny on this virus are the Chinese scientists who worked in those labs in Wuhan and they have been muzzled. Or worse.

n.n said...

"The Myth of Hetetosexual AIDS" that pissed off a lotta folks, but he was mostly right in general, totally right about San Francisco in particular.

And only half of the trans/homo bands. The digestive tract is perfectly appointed for transmission of blood-borne viruses, which was further exacerbated by a socially liberal lifestyle. An expensive lesson in both blood and treasure, which may have prompted the religious push for political congruence ("=").

Michael K said...

Lesbians didn't get it,

A few militant lesbians insisted on gay men as sperm donors and got it.

It would take a heart of stone not to laugh at them.

I treated a lot of AIDS cases in Laguna Beach those years, One "Old Queen" refused to let me do a bypass on his pre-gangrenous leg because he thought I looked disapproving of his lifestyle. He got another doc to do the amputation. You can be too militant.

n.n said...

been muzzled. Or worse.

Cancelled, perhaps no longer viable.

Roughcoat said...

This will be my path:

Who will go drive with Fergus now,
And pierce the deep wood's woven shade,
And dance upon the level shore?
Young man, lift up your russet brow,
And lift your tender eyelids, maid,
And brood on hopes and fear no more.

And no more turn aside and brood
Upon love's bitter mystery;
For Fergus rules the brazen cars,
And rules the shadows of the wood,
And the white breast of the dim sea
And all dishevelled wandering stars.

Yancey Ward said...

Tim, the data suggests the mortality issues are directly related to the non-segregation of the patients and their attending staff. The Italians, the French, the British, the Chinese, and New York City have allowed the hospitals to be overrun with COVID-19 patients- it isn't just a natural disaster. If you examine the New York data provided at the tracking project, New York has hospitalized 20% of the positive victims, but only a fraction of those are in the ICU. Some states are as bad, but none of those states have anywher near the sheer numbers of positives.

Murphy's Law rules here- if you have a disease that the can't be inoculated against, you can't have scu patients in a hospital of any kind with those who don't have it. It is impossible to not spread such a disease to all the other patients who, by the way, still make up 80% of the people in the hospitals of New York right now.

Like others in this thread, I have spent a lot of time watching videos from these hospitals in New York and elsewhere the virus is killing lots of people. Now, I am not going to editorialize on whether or not I think some of this is being fabricated for other purposes, but I will point out the things I have noticed:

The hospitals in New York are filled with signs that say the same general things- "This elevator reserved for COVID-19 patients," "This elevator reserved for non-COVID-19 patients," "No COVID-19 patients beyond this point," etc. In other words, they are all depending on 100% compliance to not spread this throughout the hospital. The world doesn't work this way and never has. There will always be people who don't read the signs or just don't care. Even completely separate hospitals isn't a sure cure for this problem, but it makes it easier to police it, and it makes it easier to detect problems before they get out of hand if you test personnel regularly, symptomatic or not.

If I had to predict which locations are going to have the highest mortality rate based on just positive tests, it will be the states that breach the 10% hospitalization rate- they will all be the areas that infect the most sheer numbers of vulnerable people.

I put a comment in here the other day about the Vanderbilt Medical Center- a truly modern facility in every way- they had 86 staff already infected from just a minor hot spot here in Nashville. Just imagine what is going on in New York.

Roughcoat said...

Years from now, if society hasn't collapsed completely, there will be many books written about the mass hysteria of 2020 that almost destroyed the world.

That sentence encapsulates the hysteria you decry.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

12:48 Bagoh...

Holey Moley

n.n said...

I reckon the experts sometimes get it wrong.

Chaos (e.g. "evolution") by virtue of incomplete or insufficient characterization and unwieldy processes. Science is with cause a near-frame philosophy (e.g. logical domain) and practice. That said, listen, discern, and be wary of deference or prostration before mortal gods and goddesses.

Rick said...

tim in vermont said...
The UK tried the “no lockdown, protect the vulnerable” strategy, and quickly abandoned it as deaths mounted, BTW. So anybody proposing it should let us know what they would do differently.


Their deaths increased less quickly than ours. Does anyone advocating our strategy need to explain what they're going to do to make it effective?

Jack Klompus said...

Ibram's got an X in that name so you know the good white people nod seriously whenever he says anything. He probably wears bow ties, too.

Incidentally, my state, PA, is the bestest state for the coronavirus fight because our public health director is "transgender", i.e. a dude who looks like a cross between that Blasey-Ford broad after eating twenty Big Macs and John Goodman's version of Linda Tripp.

chickelit said...

bagoh2): That's a real hockey stick!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Tim should mix China military aggression and this never-before-attempted self-imposed recession into his complex model which appears to only have one concern, zero virus transmission. An impossible achievement. Sure let’s totally ignore other threats to civilization.

Michael K said...

How typically selfish of boomers to think so much of themselves that they have no qualms about bequeathing a potential worldwide depression to their children and grandchildren

I see it a little bit differently. The shutdown thing is being pushed by Democrats for a combination of reasons. Their voters are government employees and suffer no economic consequences. The hourly low paid workers are invisible to them. None of their voters run small businesses so they are also invisible.

Secondly, the national Democrats have been pushing for a recession to kill the Trump economy so they get support there.

There is also the consideration that big cities and public transportation is a big part of this. Democrat cities.

Economics is not part of the Democrat playbook, see Green Nude Eel for example.

The "news media:" is rabidly anti-Trump so any attempt to get the economy going again will be attacked relentlessly.

It's not just the "Boomers."

chickelit said...

I'll betcha nobody modeled that unemployment claim graph.

Leland said...

It is interesting that the racial statistics are not getting out. I'm guessing it's either because it's difficult at this point to report them accurately or — more likely — because the officials believe that we're better off not thinking in these terms.

I'm way late to this, but I'm fairly certain HIPPA plays a major role in hospitals not wanting to provide this information. Already HIPPA regulations were altered to allow telling officials a patients home and age, so they can provide those statistics. That's usually enough information in small communities to tell you exactly who had the disease and may have died of it. If you throw in race, then it will be clearer who may have the disease. Once that happens, hospital opens themselves up to lawsuits for releasing too much patient information.

Narayanan said...

Blogger Gospace said...
Michael K said...
The HVAC industry needs to think about adding air purification to their products.

Already available. Clients have to specify they want it. It's not cheap. UV in air ducts, electrostatic precipitators, it's all available
--:---+++++++
Brings to mind how Miles solved Simon getting bioattacked by Haroche .

Lincolntf said...

Somebody needs a Snickers.

Shouting Thomas said...

I should have just read the Bible. Who knew?

You’re a God Botherer, tim. It’s a particularly annoying, stupid affliction.

The church I play for does not embrace biblical literalism. It employs gay and female preachers. It has deep connections to the world of classical music and architecture in NYC.

You’re struggling with this God Botherer stuff. I suggest you try to get your mind straight and cease seeing everything thru that affliction.

I have an MS in computer science from NYU, and I worked for the biggest of big pharma. I lived my entire adult life in SF and NYC.

This God Botherer stuff you’re struggling with... well, I’ve seen a lot of it. Free your mind from this stupidity. Everything you say is filtered thru this Brer Rabbit you’re fighting against. It’s all inside you. Now, take a deep breath and remind yourself that I’m neither a fundamentalist nor a Bible thumper before you fart our your God Botherer knee jerk platitudes again. Stop playing the idiot.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

I'm not in the medical field but I've been saying this from the beginning.
We gotta re-think. we must find new ways of treating and separating infectious diseases from the rest of the ER and hospital.

An separate ER for seasonal flu, ebola, and all other infectious diseases etc... ? why not?
Stocked staffed and at the ready.

The idea that any one of us could venture into the ER because we fell off our skateboard today, and broke our bones, and we show up for help and leave with Covid-Wuhan...
Or the idea of needed heart surgery, and are otherwise healthy, and - covid.

"First do no harm" - right out the window.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

They DID Chicklit, and Mnuchin predicted 30% unemployment. I don’t care how optimistic you are, that is a deep hole to dig out of even if half the jobs are still there next month. We have economic models but no one on TV or this blog seem to care about that right now. So, when do we start to care?

narciso said...

And matthew 24, is often ellipsed, to suggest that jesus meant this would be the sign after the slaughter of ww 1 and the apanish flu wouldnt that have beem more true. But he explicitly refers to the time of noah.

MeatPopscicle1234 said...

Anyone else surprised / amazed at (yet again) just how fucking incompetent a federal bureaucracy, which is supposed to be the premier "expert" on a specific thing, instead turns out to be a bunch of bumbling Keystone Cops who don't seem to be any more prepared or knowledgeable about exactly WTF is going on than the average lay person?

And again, we spend BILLIONS of dollars each year funding these organizations (like the CDC, FEMA, WHO), and yet when the STHF, they drop the ball over and over again... Its sickening and depressing...

Sebastian said...

German expert raising good questions

Bob Smith said...

Multiple patients positive for coronavirus transferred to NYC hospital ship by mistake.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-patients-delivered-comfort-ship-new-york-mistake

Bay Area Guy said...

@Night Owl,

"Greg, I'm with you. I'm 57 and have asthma & allergies, and think the response to the virus is insane. At risk people, like me, should stay home if we are concerned. I'm currently working from home and can continue to do that, and let the young and healthy go about their lives and get herd immunity that will make us all safer."

Well done, Night Owl! It's heartening to see you guys who do have real vulnerabilities thinking so clearly and sharing your story.

Keep it up - and stay healthy!

Bay Area Guy said...

@Doc K:

"I see it a little bit differently. The shutdown thing is being pushed by Democrats for a combination of reasons. Their voters are government employees and suffer no economic consequences. The hourly low paid workers are invisible to them. None of their voters run small businesses so they are also invisible.

Secondly, the national Democrats have been pushing for a recession to kill the Trump economy...."

A lotta truth to this......

mockturtle said...

Secondly, the national Democrats have been pushing for a recession to kill the Trump economy...."

Yep. They're not letting the crisis go to waste, that's for sure. But, as does everything they put their hands to, it will backfire on them.

narciso said...

So out 102863 positive case in ny there were 2935 deaths and 14, 810 hospitalization, with 8886 recovered nj had 10701 with 237 deaths, and 2188 hospitalizations no outstanding tests california has29895 with 646 death, my own state has 10,268 with 170 deaths .

Gk1 said...

"SUDDENLY because NYC and other urban rat houses are having a bigger problem than the rest of the country...we ALL have to live as if we are in NYC. THIS is the resentment." With you DBQ all the way. I live out in Sonoma and the lock down seems excessive given the population density. But it was inevitable once San Francisco locked down other counties would follow suit until the Gov. got in on the fun. I see the states authority wither away as people respond with "Irish democracy" in another week.

Ralph L said...

My point here is it’s obesity, not diabetes per se, that is the biggest comorbidity in CV deaths.

Tweets by ER docs say putting the patient prone on his stomach helps (even when not ventilated), but the fat ones often can't do it. If they do, looks like it would make it even harder to breathe.

Roughcoat said...

Matthew 24 is a problematic passage, especially if one interprets Genesis 9:11 to mean that God has promised that He will never again destroy the earth by any means, and not just by flood.

Fernandinande said...

I have never understood why evolution would lead to diseases that sicken or kill the host.

Seen from the germs' viewpoint, why shouldn't they?

Often the symptoms of disease, sneezing, diarrhea, superating sores, etc, spread the disease, which is why the disease evolved to create them.

Shouldn't the most successful disease be one that makes the host more healthy, active, social and even reproductive?

How about the symbiotic bacteria that help you digest food and keep you from being eaten by fungus?

Lucien said...

Narr:

Where are you? Sounds like Louisville.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

How are Indigians doing? Did ChiCom Fever finally kill them off? Has anyone heard from them lately?

Roughcoat said...

But there's another interpretation of Gen 9:11, best articulated in this Negro Spiritual:

"And God game man the rainbow sign:
No more water ... the fire next time."

Or the plague virus?

Jupiter said...

Today's assignment; Arguing In The Alternative

1 - Assuming that Afro-Americans have disproportionately high rates of infection and death from the coronavirus, how will Ibram X. Kendi argue that this is due to white racism?

2 - What arguments will he employ to demonstrate white racism should those rates prove to be disproportionately low?

Fernandinande said...

Yes, tim, you're both a coward and a moron. You really should shut up and stop disgracing yourself by crapping your pants.

On the other hand, his ability to predict the future compensates for those shortcomings.

Francisco D said...

mockturtle wrote: Per B.A.G: Here's a short interview with sainted Dr. Fauci on January 21, 2020 about the Coronavirus. I reckon the experts sometimes get it wrong.

In fairness to Fauci, he said at the beginning that the only thing we know for sure about this virus is that we know very little.


In fairness to Trump, he was occupied with a lot of other things like that silly little impeachment hoax.

narciso said...

And he said he wouldnt it presagss what would happen in revelation.

Birkel said...

The racial disparities - if any exist - are unimportant and would be a result of in whose social circles people run. If we are infected by proximity, to whom we are close matters a great deal.

mockturtle said...

In fairness to Trump, he was occupied with a lot of other things like that silly little impeachment hoax.

Trump acted quickly and appropriately in response to the information he had at the time. He knows how to adapt to change, how to circumvent needless red tape and--most importantly--how to win!

Michael K said...

We gotta re-think. we must find new ways of treating and separating infectious diseases from the rest of the ER and hospital.

An separate ER for seasonal flu, ebola, and all other infectious diseases etc... ? why not?
Stocked staffed and at the ready.


Back in the dark ages, when I was in training, the LA County Hospital had 3500 beds and a separate Infectious Disease unit that was a separate hospital on the same campus. The ID hospital, was actually built for the polio epidemics of the 50s. The rooms had an outer corridor that was walled off with big glass windows like a newborn nursery but it was to keep visitors away from patients.

It was torn down in the late 90s, I think, and the big hospital was closed and a new smaller hospital built with federal earthquake money, about ten years ago. There is no facility that I am aware of to separate infectious cases from the other hospital patents. The new hospital costs over a billion $ and is a mess inside with no organization. I quit using it for teaching before I quit teaching altogether about 5 years ago.

bagoh20 said...

Actually, the super-disease would only have to make women horny and uninhibited, like alcohol. Men already have the disease. Imagine if getting infected turned women in crazed nymphomanics. That thing would spread like wildfire and reach near 100% infection rates in a matter of days.

Original Mike said...

I guess hand washing is one of those things white people like.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Birkel, you’re ignoring Indigians’ genetically inferior immunity to disease.

walter said...

gilbar said...if we're going to be doing breakdowns; let's do the one that matters: SMOKING!
--
Ya think?

Re race, we are in a situation where mitigation compliance is put forth as pretty much the sole determination of "doing good".
So..in the wise words of MC Hammer: "Can't touch this".

mockturtle said...

I have never understood why evolution would lead to diseases that sicken or kill the host.

Nevertheless, my microbiology professor back in 1970 or so said that it would likely be a virus, not nuclear warfare, that would annihilate the population. There are literally no bounds to viruses' ability to adapt.

Gahrie said...

There's a post on Facebook saying that 98.5% of Corona virus victims recover and that this is what we should be discussing. 1.5% of the U.S. population is over 5 million people.

Banjo said...

The left has made it inevitable that every subject must be racialized. That is why "racist" as an accusation or description has become meaningless.

Mark said...

Matthew 24 is a problematic passage

That's all well and good, but the Book to read is Revelation.

Properly understood, the message is basically this --

Bad things are going to happen. But don't worry, because in the end, God and good win.

narciso said...

really peggy

Mr. T. said...

Is this all of the state of Illinois or just Crook Co.?

Mark said...

Keep your eye on the prize.

narciso said...

thats doesnt sound right

mandrewa said...

I will echo TwoAndAHalfCents who said,

"Chicago is 30% African-American and is by far the current hot spot for COVID-19. Its not unexpected at all to see the infection rate also around 30%. That the author cites 14% by including the whole state (much of which are still yet to see their first case) gives away the game."

Or to say it another way, this whole narrative is a lie.

Maybe there is a racial disparity in who gets the disease [b]but you can't tell it from the data we are given.[/b]

If you go to Weather Underground and look up the weather in your area and then look down to the right there's a button that leads to a coronavirus map for the United States.

And the most obvious and immediate pattern that leaps out from that is that Coronavirus 2019 deaths and infections are concentrated in certain major cities.

The higher level of black involvement in Illinois exactly matches the percentage of Chicago's population that is black.

narciso said...

Thats his message also take care, because there is no particular event that will warn you. Remember there were three centuries of persecutions, the antonine plagues that followed.

hstad said...

"...by Ibram X. Kendi (in The Atlantic)..." that says it all just another 'race hustler' practicing his wares.

One of the greatest intellectual thinkers of the twentieth century, C.S. Lewis, stated: "The demand for equality has two sources, the desire for fair play and a hatred for superiority." He further states: ". “…Equality (outside mathematics) is a purely social conception. It applies to man as a political and economic animal. It has no place in the world of the mind. Beauty is not democratic — she reveals herself more to the few than to the many, more to the persistent and disciplined seekers than to the careless. Virtue is not democratic — she is achieved by those who pursue her more hotly than most men. Truth is not democratic — she demands special talents and special industry in those to whom she gives her favors..."



It is interesting that the racial statistics are not getting out. I'm guessing it's either because it's difficult at this point to report them accurately or — more likely — because the officials believe that we're better off not thinking in these terms.

Mark said...

I have never understood why evolution would lead to diseases that sicken or kill the host.

Without all these bugs, we would all starve to death.

They serve an invaluable purpose, even if they sometimes go off the rails. They break things down. The soil we need to grow our crops is thanks to these things which break down dead plants and dead bodies into organic material.

Even now, there are multiple trillion of these things living in your gut doing the same thing to the food you ingest.

Sometimes though, we get some bad characters that get out of control and they spoil it for everyone.

bagoh20 said...

"We have economic models but no one on TV or this blog seem to care about that right now. So, when do we start to care?"

I think that might help to say we have "models". They love models. When will they care? One disaster at a time, please. Thinking ahead can really harsh your mellow, and it waters down your righteous indignation.

I do think we could have had an amazing rebound, the confidence and desire is there, but the way this thing has played out is going to leave a large number of people social phobic, and that will put a real drag on things, maybe forever.

Mark said...

The bad bugs don't know that we're not dead yet.

Drago said...

mandrewa: "Or to say it another way, this whole narrative is a lie."

The real purpose of the racial disparity narrative is to add another dimension to the upcoming Sham-peachment III hearings and to try and increase African American turnout for Biden's replacement in November.

Period.

End of story.

Kirk Parker said...

Tim in hysteria land,

I currently have a very low opinion of the Democratic Party, however... turning you from an absolute nutcase into a Democrat would at least be moving in a healthier direction.

Earnest Prole said...

Famous New York Times headline: "World to End Tomorrow; Women, Minorities Hardest Hit.”

Night Owl said...

That sentence encapsulates the hysteria you decry.

It was meant to be ironic, so thank you.

I've recently put some cash into the stock market. My instincts say that sanity will prevail and people will get back to work. And I have no doubt that there will be many books written about 2020, in hindsight. Some more sensationalized than others.

bagoh20 said...

'They serve an invaluable purpose, even if they sometimes go off the rails. They break things down. The soil we need to grow our crops is thanks to these things which break down dead plants and dead bodies into organic material."

Granted, but in a evolutionary competition between a virus that sickens and kills its host and one that keeps the host alive, makes them want to socialize and reproduce, it seems like it would be a no-brainer which one would be more common. On top of that, the host organism would also be evolutionarily incentivized to not develop immunity, since the virus encourages it to reproduce as well.

There are symbiotic relationships all through nature, some of them very controlling, and sophisticated, but why doesn't our species have one with these dynamics, where we are encouraged to socialize, reproduce and spread it.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

A message from man on the street in China.

bagoh20 said...

"The bad bugs don't know that we're not dead yet."

They don't really know anything, but they are "designed" by evolution to operate in a way where they survive. The bad bugs seem especially bad at it.

mockturtle said...

Narciso, that is 'interesting' and seems to be the case on most of the country.

mandrewa said...

I have never understood why evolution would lead to diseases that sicken or kill the host.

I think of a virus as a stray program. It's not really a living thing. The RNA that codes for the Wuhan coronavirus is quite short and codes for just a few things. By it's very nature, the replication of a virus is highly error prone, so it "evolves" very rapidly.

The simplicity of a virus is a radical constraint on the complexity of its strategy for reproducing. So some sophisticated strategies that we might imagine are not actually possible for a virus.

Nevertheless, you are right. It would be a good strategy for a virus to infect a host and then replicate very slowly while not damaging the host. A virus that can do that might end up infecting nearly 100% of the host population.

And it may even be that there actually are viruses that do that.

In fact any virus that can get into your nervous system has the potential for following such a strategy since your immune system in the brain is much more restrained than in the rest of your body.

But your immune system is probably the real reason this isn't a viable strategy for viruses in general. Your immune system is going to detect and take out slow moving viruses.

And thus there is no advantage for the virus to move slowly (and not harm its host).

mockturtle said...

A message from man on the street in China.

Love it, BB&H! :-D And that about sums it up and should dictate our foreign [and economic] policy.

gspencer said...

"Lifeboat," practiced on a grand scale

narciso said...

there's another piece re the reason why the outbreak spread in spain, there was a major march which all the leadership in the people's republic, called on march 8th,

Roughcoat said...

I'm of the school of theological thought that Genesis 9:11 is to be understood as God promising that he will never again destroy the world or allow it to be destroyed. Or how else to interpret Genesis 8:21-22:

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. 22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

As for Revelations: I believe that it is to be understood as an allegory not as a prophecy.

Roughcoat said...

It was meant to be ironic, so thank you.

Clown nose on, clown nose off. You're welcome.

mockturtle said...

say goodbye to hugs and hand shakes?

Reminds me of this scene from Naked Gun 8 1/2: ,Safe Sex

Matt said...

Maybe some people fear that if racial data were to show that COVID-19 is disproportionately harming people of color, then white people will stop caring..."
~~~~~~~~
Ha! Nice try. I stopped caring about minorities YEARS ago. Right around the time the whole 'white privilege' and 'CuLtUrAl ApPrOpRiAtIoN' nonsense came along.

If darkies want to understand where racism comes from, perhaps they could take a look at their behavior towards whites on Twitter and HuffPo and Slate and literally every single other lefty site, along with the bullshit riots, BLM protests over scumbags and the wholesale cover-up of black-on-white crime. But that would take some self-analysis, so I won't hold my breath.

Night Owl said...

Narciso, that is 'interesting' and seems to be the case on most of the country.

I live in MD near two medical centers - a Kaiser Permanente and some other one- both within walking distance. You'd think I'd be hearing ambulances day and night, or see long lines, but I haven't heard any. Those sites look quiet; probably quieter than normal due to so many doctors cancelling appointments.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabel said...

In my little corner of the world, which is about 50% AA, the people in that community seem, on average, to be taking the social distancing rules noticeably less seriously than the non-AA people.

narciso said...

does one believe jesus will come back at some point in the future that determines behavior in the present, this can't be all there is,

narciso said...

Kaiser has a covid tracker as well, but it's more unwieldy, to use.

FullMoon said...

Really, tim, the juvenile, cowardly, stupid crap you keep posting is more dangerous to people’s health than COVID-19.

Stop doing it.

Stop crapping your pants.
.....................................


Kind of harsh. Personally, if a person is afraid to leave the house, fine with me. No real need to convince others your fear is justified by "statistics". And no need to be ashamed of your particular fear. And no need to accuse those un afraid of being heartless or stupid.

Stay inside, stay warm, read books and entertain yourself. Might be best to avoid the news for a while. After all, you are not leaving the house anyway, so why ingest info that upsets you?

mockturtle said...

The last thing we need right now is to make this about race. :-(

Ken B said...

Tim
You are making two mistakes. You think that jobs lost are lost can be replaced and you think 65 year old who die are gone forever. In fact jobs lost are gone forever, and the stock of 65 years will be replenished, next year.
Well, partly replenished.
But we didn’t need them all anyway, amirite?

Ray - SoCal said...

Spiros and Tim

It's hard being a landlord right now. Many areas are doing an eviction moratorium for unpaid rent. CA has one and we have rent control! Thanks to CA's amazing Governor Newsom! The one that cheated on his campaign manager, with his wife.

What I am seeing:

1. Some landlords will give a 10-20% discount if tenants pay on time
2. Other landlords are sending out a letter to everyone
3. Other landlords will sign a loan for unpaid rent charging interest (I heard 10% is legal in CA)
4. Other landlords are doing payment plans, with the goal to get the tenant to pay as much as possible, including a late fee that can be waived.
5. Other landlords are giving a letter to understand the situation, and then decide on the actions to take.
6. There are letters out there for tenants that are doing "rent strikes" warning them of the consequences. That there is a moratorium in many areas on eviction, but the rent is still do.

narciso said...

kendi is like nat x for real, everything is about race for him. the successor to coates,

Ray - SoCal said...

I use https://covidtracking.com/ that has test data for all of the US - statistics on CA are sketchy due to issues with CA's official data. % positives in tests is very worrisome in many areas, and % increase. Overall tests are increasing about 10% per day in the US.

CA is still only doing about 2,000 tests a day, and is in the bottom 5 states in the US. I don't know why CA, which has a huge bio tech sector, that even developed in Pleasanton the Roche Machine, is doing so horrible on testing. And CA has a backlog of 60,000 tests.

NY is doing 16,000 tests a day last I read.

Dad29 said...

320busdriver mentioned a factoid.

In the City of Milwaukee, the ONLY deaths from C-19 were black people living in an area surrounding St Joseph's Hospital (50th/Burleigh.) This is a nice area of the City. IIRC, there are 8 deaths in that little section of the City.

Channel 6 (Fox) caught some relevant "other" information while looking into the 2 deaths at old-folks' homes in Washington and Ozaukee Counties. The County health officer for those counties (amalgamated position) has instructed nursing homes NOT TO ALLOW 'traveling' crews of contract labor any more; the contractors must work in one nursing home only.

Since that report, there has been a blackout of information, but there is active speculation in other parts of the country that C-19 also travels through fecal materials.

you do the math.

Ray - SoCal said...

And based on a couple of recent, different comments I read:

Tests in CA are taking between 5 days at a hospital in OC, to 2 weeks for a Nurse's significant other. Hydrochlorothiazide is most effective when given early.

Ray - SoCal said...

C-19 does travel through Fecal Material, so flush with the lid down...

Somebody in the Netherlands was thinking of testing at sewage treatment plants as a way to figure out how widespread C-19 was.

Reference:
https://fortune.com/2020/02/20/coronavirus-fecal-transmission/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200326160759.htm

Jaq said...

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has begun to conduct tests to find out whether people have been previously infected with the coronavirus, officials said Saturday.

Such testing can help determine how widespread the disease has been and whether there have been significant numbers of people who were infected but did not become ill. The tests, called serology tests, detect antibodies that the immune system makes in response to the virus.

According to Dr. Joe Bresee, deputy incident manager of the agency’s Covid-19 response, testing will focus on three groups: people in areas with a high concentration of cases; people in a representative sample of other areas from around the country; and special groups of people who are likely to have had a higher risk of exposure, like health care workers.

Antibodies to other viruses confer immunity, but it is not yet certain that they do for the novel coronavirus. Still, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the top U.S. infectious disease expert, said last week that “if this virus acts like every other virus that we know, once you get infected, get better, clear the virus, then you’ll have immunity that will protect you against re-infection.”
- New YOrk Times

Imagine that! Gathering data to make informed decisions! Why waste the money when they could just glean the comments of asshats on the intertubes for all of the knowledge they need!

I am not actually not the one crapping my pants. I am fine, my family is fine. I don’t need a government program to take care of me. You guys are the ones who go batshit whenever one of your little delusions you indulge to make the fear go away get’s punctured. I have been clear that I believe, “believe” not “know,” that we are going to have to restart the economy sooner rather than later even though it is going to mean more deaths from the virus. This is a minimization problem involving minimizing the number of shortened lives. There is no way to stop the virus from taking it’s share. That’s what scares you guys and you are in denial of it.

Shouting Thomas has often bragged about how during Viet Nam, he stayed home and banged the girlfriends of the “suckers” who went over to fight in a war he judged to be useless. Well, I don’t see any reason to throw lives away based on bluster and guessery concocted by blowhards who want to pretend that there is no serious situation here. The way to save lives is not to put your head in the sand.

Fernandinande said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jaq said...

"C-19 does travel through Fecal Material, so flush with the lid down... “

I think that that has the potential to really deal a blow to this pandemic. Fecal testing that shows days before a person is contagious that he has been infected.

My ex has Lupus and we were at a funeral together for a member of the extended family’s father, and the guy who’s father had just died insisted on a hug from the ex. He works in Manhattan and had been sick for two weeks, but he said he’d “been tested” But he hadn’t, it was just an ex ray that showed he didn’t have pneumonia. He was sick for three weeks. Anyway, about a week later she has a slight fever for a day or so, and it passes and she is fine. She takes plaquanil every day. Did it work for her? I don’t know. I know I am raiding her supply if I feel sick in any way. If it is the drug that works, and we can detect it days before it becomes contagious, the economy will be roaring back by summer.

I really hope so.

n.n said...

How diverse? The president doesn't have it. That's one for the orange people. The surgeon general doesn't have it. That's one for the black people. Fauci doesn't have it. That's one for the white people. Birx doesn't have it. That's one for the feminine female people.

NYC Health: COVID-19 Daily Data Summary: Deaths

1397 deaths. 1046 underlying conditions. 333 conditions pending.

635 age 75 and over

574 female sex
872 male sex


Diversity? Maybe. SARS-CoV-2 has a bias, but not a prejudice, other than a behavioral and opportunistic character.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

4/4/20, 2:59 PM

Time for some social distancing.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FullMoon said...

Santa Clara County dashboard. Test turnaround time less than three days. (BUT everybody who wants to be tested is not accepted.)
Not sure why there is such a backlog on results. Either SoCal is slower, or tests are not being submitted for results.



https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/dashboard.aspx

Jaq said...

"If the tests reveal many, many, many asshats have been exposed and survived, will you feel better?”

You know how they say the proof of the pudding is in the tasting? Well the proof of the outbreak is in the intensive care wards. I really don’t care about tests to drive whatever pet simplified model you have in your head. The point of the modeling is to predict demand on hospital resources.

If it turns out that Quinine and zinc is the magic bullet? That’s great, the models will all be wrong and we can all go home happy, and people like you can say you knew it all along, when really, it’s just that you believed it based on some hunch you had. Responsible people are not allowed to play with the lives of hundreds of thousands of people based on the hunches of asshats. But what I really hope is that the medical people have turned this around and you guys are crowing that it was all a hoax for years to come.

Anyway. Arguing with you guys is pointless. I really hope it turns out that the tide has turned due to the actions of the people on the front lines, and you guys can tweak me forever about it.

Ray - SoCal said...

Hmm, I wonder if Coronavirus is hitting Gay's more?

Looking at a list of cities LA County with infections, West Hollywood, has a huge amount of infections.

http://www.publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/Coronavirus/

4566 cases as of 4/4/2020
73 in West Hollywood out of 20,000 people
7 in My city, Rowland Heights, heavily Chinese area, out of 50,218 people

Ken B said...

“ If the tests reveal many, many, many asshats have been exposed and survived, will you feel better?”

Much. We will be on our way to herd immunity for one thing. The mortality will be lower, the threat much less.

Big if. We don’t know yet, either way.

You seem confident. Without evidence. There’s a word for that.

PJH said...

Why use the entire state of Illinois as the test group. There are pockets with great population densities being compared with rural ares that are white. Shouldn't the racial mix of a specific hot spot be used for comparison. Then factor in the social distancing.

Ken B said...

Tim
The sad part is if a million die they will still tweak you, because some predictions were higher.

Fernandinande said...

How are Indigians doing? Did ChiCom Fever finally kill them off? Has anyone heard from them lately?

Here's some info about Dine medicine men treating the cooties by using magical names (It's caused by looking the moon or the sunset, according to some medicine men, BTW. Seriously, be careful.)

Navajo Times Corona virus updates, 270 cases, 12 dead. The rez is pretty much shut down.

Jaq said...

Think of the manufacturing that is gonna come back from China. Yeah, the country as a whole will be poorer, but I think that that loss of wealth is gonna come out of the hides of the wealthy in the form of higher wages paid to American workers manufacturing drugs, PPE, along with American steel and other strategic manufacturing. Trump should put a tariff on imported oil.

This is the moment for which Trump was born.

FullMoon said...

But what I really hope is that the medical people have turned this around and you guys are crowing that it was all a hoax for years to come.

Anybody on this site ever call it a hoax? Have not read every comment. Have seen some call the response an over reaction. Have seen it said "one size does not fit all". Have seen people concerned about paycheck to paycheck workers. Have seen people concerned about small business owners. Have not seen any one mention hoax except you guys.

You usta be kinda normal until the virus hit. Take care of yourself.

Ray - SoCal said...

Taipei, Taiwan has a huge density, but has very little infections. Hand Sanitizer is everywhere, and everyone is wearing masks. Plus they were very strict early on to quarantine suspected infected.

Mark said...

AH Washington Post headlines -

'We could get wiped out’: American Indians have the highest rates of diseases that make covid-19 more lethal

Coronavirus is wreaking havoc on the economy. It’s hitting hispanic workers harder.
_____________________

Tracing the Trump administration’s failures over first 70 days of the virus fight

How Trump’s attempts to win the daily news cycle feed a chaotic response

Trump is trying to undermine independent watchdogs — again

Trump, GOP challenge efforts to make voting easier amid coronavirus pandemic

Despite Ford and GM’s warlike effort to make ventilators, production is expected to come too late and fall short of needs

Trump fires yet another official who played a key role in investigating Trump

Jaq said...

"Big if. We don’t know yet, either way.”

Yes we do, just feed asshat hunches into a Bayesian thingamawhatchit and you get pure molten truth!


"Looking at a list of cities LA County with infections, West Hollywood, has a huge amount of infections.”

As Howard is fond of pointing out, it’s a jet setter’s pestilence first.

FullMoon said...

Tim
The sad part is if a million die they will still tweak you, because some predictions were higher.


And when they don't you hoax guys can claim victory.

walter said...

n.n said...
574 female sex
872 male sex
--
Fooking Toxic Masculinity!

mockturtle said...

I like to catch the daily briefings but find I must turn it off before the Q&A. The reporters incite me to murderous rage.

Mark said...

I've seen all sorts of stories and headlines --

Blacks hardest hit by coronavirus!

Indigenous peoples hardest hit by coronavirus!

Hispanics hardest hit by coronavirus!

Trans sex workers hardest hit by coronavirus!

(I'm not joking about the last one)

This Ibram X. Kendi needs to get in line.

Jaq said...

How is saying the models on which the shutdown were based are all baseless and wrong different from calling it a hoax? Do you think that the 2.2 million figure was ever real?

Jaq said...

Now Fullmoon is going all Michael Mann on me, not allowing me the tinies rhetorical breathing space.

Mark said...

There will be a manufacturing boom as the United States hires tons of new people to go into domestic war production of masks, gloves, medical equipment, pharmaceutics and more.

Never again do we become dependent upon other countries -- especially those hostile to us -- for the protection and care of our lives.

narciso said...

and the aftermath

FullMoon said...


Blogger Ken B said...

“ If the tests reveal many, many, many asshats have been exposed and survived, will you feel better?”

Much. We will be on our way to herd immunity for one thing. The mortality will be lower, the threat much less.

Big if. We don’t know yet, either way.



You seem confident. Without evidence. There’s a word for that.


Confident of what? You seem like an insecure asshole. You have a belief based on info. Others have a different opinion. So, you are here day after day after day constantly calling others names and inferring you are somehow more correct. I am anecdotally confident you are afraid to leave the house and need to justify your fear.



FullMoon said...

tim in vermont said...

Now Fullmoon is going all Michael Mann on me, not allowing me the tinies rhetorical breathing space.


Have no clue what you are talking about.

Jaq said...

You mean “imply” not “infer” and even that is not correct. He is demonstrating it.

FullMoon said...


Blogger tim in vermont said...

You mean “imply” not “infer” and even that is not correct. He is demonstrating it.


Poorly educated in Ca public school system.

Jaq said...

"Have no clue what you are talking about.”

Google Michael Mann and Hoax.

I said I was done, I really am done. I have turned into Howard.

Jaq said...

I have always liked your comments, Fullmoon, though I learned long ago never to click on your links. Just saying. Later all.

Jim Gust said...

Let us imagine that you are a country that wants to go to war with the USA. Your military is strong, but not strong enough. You need to find a nonmilitary way to wound the USA. To cause the stock market to crash. To throw millions into unemployment. To cause the economy to grind to a halt. To render the USA essentially helpless.

If you are that enemy country, how would you go about doing that? What steps could you take toward those objectives?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Manufacturing here in the US, instead of China?

How will the Bloombergs and the clintons and the Bidens and the Pelosi's grift?

FullMoon said...

My ex has Lupus and we were at a funeral together for a member of the extended family’s father, and the guy who’s father had just died insisted on a hug from the ex. He works in Manhattan and had been sick for two weeks, but he said he’d “been tested” But he hadn’t, it was just an ex ray that showed he didn’t have pneumonia. He was sick for three weeks. Anyway, about a week later she has a slight fever for a day or so, and it passes and she is fine.

No mask or social distancing? Surprised.

n.n said...

One orange. Two orange. Three black. Four white. Five yellow. Six fuchsia. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Mock-T -
safe sex full body condom = the answer to covid!

gilbar said...

if one interprets Genesis 9:11 to mean that God has promised that He will never again destroy the earth by any means, and not just by flood.

???
HOW could you (anyone!) interpret it like that?
All he says is: AS LONG AS the Rainbow remains a sign of GOD, he won't use water
NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL about fire

NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL about what happens if/when atheistic hedonistic sodomites take over the Rainbows

FullMoon said...
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n.n said...

Manufacturing here in the US, instead of China?

Labor and environmental arbitrage. Go Green.

FullMoon said...

"Have no clue what you are talking about.”

Google Michael Mann and Hoax.


Seriously? You assume I do not know about Michael Mann and Hoax?

I don't understand the connection. But you do and that is all that matters.

Ya better believe it !

wildswan said...

What if the response to covid in this country is being driven by history as taught in the public schools for the last thirty years. There kids learn that when Europeans landed anywhere they spread diseases that wiped out indigenous peoples who had no immunity to these new diseases; and the take away from that lesson was: DO NOT SPREAD DISEASE INTO A VULNERABLE GROUP. THAT IS GENOCIDE AND ONLY DONE BY EVILS. This they believe. Comes now covid which is very transmissible and which is a new disease against which no one has built-up immunity. However, there is a particular group which is especially vulnerable, the old, while, they, the public school graduates of the last thirty years, are relatively immune. And, as we see, the public school graduates of the last thirty years want the economy shut down. Is this because they cannot abide the idea of SPREADING DISEASE INTO A VULNERABLE GROUP in order to further their own economic welfare. And when you add in that the vulnerable group includes their own parents [kill Dad by picking up an infection and transmitting it to him?] then it seems that our current policies, however unique, and seemingly new, and irrational and unsustainable in terms of costs, may be resting on very deep-seated attitudes among the under-forties.

If this is right, we'll only get them to agree to policy changes by respecting their convictions, by proving that it isn't being a nazi with a geezer elimination plan or an Indian agent with smallpox infected blankets to say that the economy must start up. I think their own parents are saying it to them and they aren't listening, so I don't know how that would happen.

Mark said...

Washington Post headline -

D.C. offers advice on safe sex during a pandemic

Fernandinande said...

Indigenous peoples hardest hit by coronavirus!

I wouldn't be surprised if they were -

"During the past 50 years, the IHS has improved health conditions dramatically, but disparities persist—American Indians continue to experience some of the worst health conditions in the United States. Although this persistence is striking, it is even more striking that the disparities have existed not for 50 years but for 500 years."

Mark said...

D.C. currently has 900 confirmed cases.

"Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) said Friday that officials estimate about 93,000 people could be become infected with covid-19 in the city, based on the District’s projections." -- WP

Paul Zrimsek said...

Wokeness : COVID-19 :: Chandra Levy : 9/11.

Terry Ott said...

"Hey Tim, maybe we should get every man, woman, and child a ventilator too, and hand them out alphabetically.”

First thing Monday, off to the courthouse to processr my official name change.

Aaron AAdams (the crumudgeon formerly known as Terry Ott}.

Andy said...

I am here to announce the sad passing of the race card from Covid 19 aka Wuhan flu. The race card first tested positive on March 1 and after a long struggle it passed away. It is suspected that decades of overuse had weakened the race cards immune system thus leading to its death.

The Gipper Lives said...

Dr. Birx: "Spain and Italy are moving through this."

Maybe this is why: "In Italy, nearly half of all doctors reported prescribing the drug hydroxychloroquine...More than 70 percent of Spanish doctors are giving the drug to coronavirus patients, as are 41 percent in Brazil, 39 percent in Mexico and 28 percent in France."--Daily Mail

Narr said...

Louisville? Louis. Ville.

No.

Narr
Thank yuh vera much

mandrewa said...

tim in vermont said, "If it turns out that Quinine and zinc is the magic bullet? That’s great, the models will all be wrong and we can all go home happy, and people like you can say you knew it all along, when really, it’s just that you believed it based on some hunch you had."

Tim, you don't understand the argument and the evidence for hydroxychloroquine and zinc. First of all, quinine is not hydroxychloroquine and I'm unaware of any studies that have suggested that quinine would be effective against the Covid-19 virus.

But it's another story for hydroxychloroquine by itself and hydroxychloroquine together with zinc.

There are both animal studies and in vitro studies showing that zinc in the cytoplasm of the cells blocks an enzyme that the coronavirus needs to replicate. Unfortunately it's quite difficult to get zinc ions into the cytoplasm of the cell.

Part of the reason for that is no doubt that zinc ions in the concentration necessary are harmful to normal cellular function, and thus the adverse side effects of the treatment and why one doesn't want to do it to excess.

Hydroxychloroquine incorporates itself into cellular membranes and transports zinc ions from the outside into the cytoplasm. The zinc ions don't completely block virus replication but they significantly slow it down.

Thus the theoretical, logical argument for why hydroxychloroquine plus zinc should be of significant help in defending against the coronavirus. And in fact that is what both animal studies and studies with in vitro human cells show.

Now of course large scale human trials are lacking.

What could doom human trials is an expectation that hydroxychloroquine will be a magic bullet that will cure people that are very sick and close to death.

If that's the measure of success then it's quite likely to fail.

But if instead people take the correct dosage early and as soon as they show any symptom, including even very mild symptoms, then this could completely alter the course of the epidemic. That would mean many people taking it without actually having the coronavirus, and suffering relatively mild side effects. But still this is surely better than the alternative.

I think we should be distributing hydroxychloroquine, along with instructions on how to use it, to everyone as fast we can make the stuff. Given how rapidly an infection develops there isn't enough time to wait for a prescription.

Ken B said...

“ The reporters incite me to murderous rage.”

Yes. I occasionally watch Trudeau. I really dislike a Trudeau. It’s hard to make me sympathetic. But the reporters ....
And American reporters are so much worse.

mockturtle said...
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mockturtle said...

Most 'indigenous' Americans I have known do not live on a reservation. They had the good sense to adapt to the 'white' culture and have done very well--as well as any other ethnic group.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

To elaborate, hanging onto a crappy culture is both stupid and suicidal.

walter said...

"I am here to announce the sad passing of the race card from Covid 19"
I foresee a resurrection...

mockturtle said...

Actually, Loo-uh-vul

Achilles said...

tim in vermont said...
"If the tests reveal many, many, many asshats have been exposed and survived, will you feel better?”

You know how they say the proof of the pudding is in the tasting? Well the proof of the outbreak is in the intensive care wards. I really don’t care about tests to drive whatever pet simplified model you have in your head. The point of the modeling is to predict demand on hospital resources.

If it turns out that Quinine and zinc is the magic bullet? That’s great, the models will all be wrong and we can all go home happy, and people like you can say you knew it all along, when really, it’s just that you believed it based on some hunch you had. Responsible people are not allowed to play with the lives of hundreds of thousands of people based on the hunches of asshats. But what I really hope is that the medical people have turned this around and you guys are crowing that it was all a hoax for years to come.

Anyway. Arguing with you guys is pointless. I really hope it turns out that the tide has turned due to the actions of the people on the front lines, and you guys can tweak me forever about it.



And just like that we are a police state.

Some of us want the government to tell us what to do.

Some of us want to be free.

At some point soon we will all get to choose sides.

Doug said...
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Dad29 said...

Update from 4/4 Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

"Of the 25 people confirmed to have died from complications of COVID-19 in Milwaukee County as of late Friday morning, 20 have been African American, two have been Latino and three have been white...."

Hmmmmm.

Doug said...

Tommy Duncan won the thread a way long time ago.

Jaq said...

Bill Gates is gonna manufacture all of the vaccine candidates, then throw away all but the ones that pass the test, so that the vaccine will be available as soon as they pass testing.

https://twitter.com/michael_nielsen/status/1246457825720553472

Jaq said...

"Tim, you don't understand the argument and the evidence for hydroxychloroquine and zinc.”

I do, I am just saying that we are in the fog of war right now, and certainties are scarce on the ground. I really hope you are right. If you are, the numbers will show it soon. I just type quinine because that other word is too long.

walter said...

"What could doom human trials is an expectation that hydroxychloroquine will be a magic bullet that will cure people that are very sick and close to death."
--
This is "how its done" for new many new drugs. Gotta wonder how many got the axe without exploring earlier use.
Fortunately, the components here can be used off-label and there really is no established "standard of care" thwart it.

Jaq said...

"But you do and that is all that matters.”

I am going full Guido Cannonballs on you.

Spiros said...

According to the “7,000 Years' Doctrine," if the Earth is 6,000 years old, then we still have a 1,000 years before Christ returns? Or is the age of man (6,000 years) followed by the 1,000-year reign of Christ? It's pretty confusing.

Jaq said...

Why Trump is my hero:

https://twitter.com/k_ovfefe2/status/1246546265824993282

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