February 3, 2020

I used to listen to the NYT podcast "The Daily" every morning, but somewhere along the line, it lost me badly.

And I hadn't listened to any episode in months. I'd stopped even looking at the episode titles, which is something I was doing even after I'd stopped listening. I was looking at episode titles and rejecting them unheard. Something about the Trump Era made me resistant to what they were putting out. But I happened to listen this morning.

The episode is: "The Field: Iowa’s Electability Complex/As Iowans prepare to cast the first votes of the 2020 Democratic nomination process, they’re asking one question: Who can win?" ("Traveling around the state, we found anxious Iowans asking one question over and over: Who can beat President Trump?")

This was worth listening to, and, for me, it's worth blogging about because it made me think of what was missing. You have all these people in Iowa putting tremendous effort into picking one of the Democratic Party candidates, and the number one thing they're wracking their brains about is how other people will think. They're imagining the interior life of people who are inclined to or capable of voting for Trump.

But here's what's missing: Their imagination is pathetic and — though they all seem like such nice people — morally deficient. No one speaking in that podcast had any real feeling for Trump supporters as fully dimensional human beings. Trump supporters are ciphers who might as well be piled up in a basket labeled "deplorables."

Now, the podcast nudges us to think that it would be best for the people of Iowa to pull back from wondering what other people want and just ask themselves what do I want. That is, forget about electability. That's the too-hard-to-answer question of what everyone else wants. If each individual goes for what he or she wants, then there's a chance of aggregating that into a sensible picture of what people in general want.

That may be a good idea, especially if the alternative is to rely on inept thinking about what other people want. To me, what was missing from the podcast was a recognition of the poverty of the Iowa Democrats' thoughts about how voters in the middle might feel about various Democratic Party candidates. If there is any substance at all, it seems to be that some of the Democrats are actively offensive, others are sort of innocuous, and if they serve up one of the innocuous candidates, maybe enough of those voters in the middle will go along with it.

But there is another option for these Iowa caucus-goers (and others engaged in the Democratic Party nomination process): Accord full humanity to the Americans who are capable of accepting Trump and try to understand them as real people whose thoughts and feelings matter. This would be an arduous path, and it's almost surely too late to start. I don't think the Democrats involved in the nominating process even know how to find their way to the beginning of that path.

ADDED: They can't find their way to the beginning of that path because they are so deeply invested in demonizing the other side. They want voters in the middle to go with the Democrats because the GOP side is demonic. To demonize is to disbelieve in the possibility of connection with the real humanity of the people you want to convince. There's only a hope that some of the demons are getting tired of being demons.

Yet this demonizing is itself tiresome. And I say that as someone in the middle, someone who could go either way and 2020 and who voted against Donald Trump twice in 2016 (in the Wisconsin primary and in the general election).

231 comments:

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Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
never, ever criticize President Donald J. “Bone Spurs” Trump.


This is the key. Althouse has offered less substantive criticism of Trump than professional promoters like Coulter or Tucker Carlson. Only Hannity has matched her devotion to avoiding mention of Trump's flaws.

Ann Althouse said...

"What exactly is treating somebody like a human supposed to be. Being interested in his feelings?"

I didn't say "treat."

I said "Accord full humanity to the Americans who are capable of accepting Trump and try to understand them as real people whose thoughts and feelings matter."

And I wouldn't say "treat... like a human"... Other people are human. That's just a fact. The question is how to live in a culture that has a democratic system that includes these other people. One answer is to steer clear of the humans. I didn't object to that. But if you want to participate in the electoral system, you need to understand how other people behave, and there are too many Americans who are confused and befuddled and anxious because they can't understand half of their fellow citizens, but they still are trying to participate.

That's the subject of this post. Not how to "treat" other people.

Ann Althouse said...

"Althouse has offered less substantive criticism of Trump than professional promoters like Coulter or Tucker Carlson. Only Hannity has matched her devotion to avoiding mention of Trump's flaws."

Ugh. What an abject failure to understand how I feel and why I don't spend my days piling on Trump.

rhhardin said...

Civil indifference isn't steering clear of. It's being in the midst of.

rhhardin said...

I do understand the left. They think like women and retaliate like children.

rhhardin said...

The left needs a mob however. Lefties on their own are usually fine, just rare.

rhhardin said...

Teach a mob on the left what the right thinks. Good luck with that. The whole mob-forming is based on narrative. No narrative, no mob. But the enjoy living in that narrative. That's what the soap opera media is about. Eyeballs.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I don't think anyone feels that either Coulter or Tucker Carlson are piling on Trump simply by offering some substantive criticism. The man has some giant sized flaws, from literally any perspective.

Birkel said...

I think it's funny that nice people on these boards have caught up to my positions, if slowly. The Leftist Collectivists hate America and Americans. We've noticed. So we're never going to give people like ARM or Inga a fair shake. Sure, we recognize their humanity despite their best efforts to hide it. But we recognize how much they hate the other. And we know that hates means they're arguing in bad faith, and poorly.

The woman on MSNBC just said "The enemy is in the White House." She hates.

The Leftist Collectivists care about power. Everything else is second. We get it. You have us convinced. But the idea that we'll then take you seriously? Or spend our most limited resource making an argument you'll ignore? No.

No absolute moral authority, either.

Gahrie said...

Althouse has offered less substantive criticism of Trump than professional promoters like Coulter or Tucker Carlson. Only Hannity has matched her devotion to avoiding mention of Trump's flaws.

And yet still, somehow, you were able to find out about them after all.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Thank God for the Daily Caller.

Greg the class traitor said...

Blogger Phil said...
"Well, it looks like it filtered well on the "moral vs amoral" scale there. No?"

Sure, but that's not the question. The question is whether or not this particular ranked choice system works better at identifying good candidates better than just having a vote and counting up all the first place votes. It doesn't seem to. I suspect we'd get better candidates if we had multiple states with primaries go first rather than this.

1: It depends on how you define "good candidate"

The point of having these in small States is that you can win with retail politicking. Which means that a candidate who doesn't have a lot of cash in the bank, but is good at interacting with people, CAN win.

And it means that you can NOT win just by carpet bombing the place with ads. Which is probably why Bloomberg is skipping the State. His money isn't that useful, and his personality sucks

2: The other good filter IA provides, because it's a caucus State, is it's an early organizational test. Can you get your people to show up the one night where it matters?

The knock on Trump heading into IA was that "he had no organization." Then he managed to come in 2nd. As an early Trump dismisser, I was surprised, and a bit impressed, that he had managed to get his people to go out and vote, when all the experts were telling us that Trump's organization and GotV was a joke.

3: Another benefit of IA and NH is that they flip back and forth a lot. NH is the only NE State that's been doing that, and IA been pretty high up in the "flips back and forth" category for the midwest.

If you're looking for someone who can appeal to more than just the hard core partisans, what State's would you suggest?

Greg the class traitor said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...

But if you want to participate in the electoral system, you need to understand how other people behave, and there are too many Americans who are confused and befuddled and anxious because they can't understand half of their fellow citizens, but they still are trying to participate.


Sorry, they're not "confused and befuddled and anxious because they can't understand half of their fellow citizens", they're "confused and befuddled and anxious because they can't understand" why it is those "other people" (conservatives / Republicans) are allowed to vote, and allowed to matter.

They see universities, Twitter, and Google silencing that Other, and are very upset that the rest of society isn't doing that, too.

Inga said...

“The Leftist Collectivists care about power. Everything else is second. We get it. You have us convinced.”

No you’ve convinced yourself by your own preconceived notions about people on the left. Calling them Leftist Collectivists is a clue as to your unimaginative take on liberals and Democrats. You are one of the few here who dehumanize liberals commenting here every time you interact with a liberal commenter. You are one of the few here that refuse to accord full humanity to people you see as Leftist Collectivists. You try hard to make others believe that any human attribute that a liberal may express about themselves is fake, false made up. You’ve treated a pregnant woman who used to comment here, who was a liberal leaning independent, abominably. Haranguing her and even telling her her child would go to hell or some such vile nonsense. YOU Birkel are one of those that make others who agree with you politically look bad.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
YOU Birkel are one of those that make others who agree with you politically look bad.


Shh! Don't tell him/her.

Birkel said...

No, calling people Leftist Collectivists is a recognition that those people wish to use the monopoly power of force against their fellow American citizens because of the lust for power. That might exclude some people on the Left. That's why two words are necessary.

Play the mental game:
Name a Leftist policy goal the result of which, if implemented, is greater freedom and autonomy for individuals.

Birkel said...

Royal ass Inga: "Haranguing her and even telling her her child would go to hell or some such vile nonsense."

This is false. You have made that out of whole cloth. There's a simple reasonanybody who has paid attention to the things I've written would know - beyond doubt - that it is false. Can you guess what that thing is?

Inga said...

“But we recognize how much they hate the other. And we know that hates means they're arguing in bad faith, and poorly.”

And Birkel, here are are projecting. You argue in bad faith when you try to take away your political opponent’s humanity, as you’ve done to many liberals, especially female liberals here on these comments threads many times over the years. Your own hate comes through like a barnyard full of manure when you obsessively target female liberals here.

Birkel said...

Our resident racist fopdoodle is a girl?
And ARM too?

Inga said...

Inga said...YOU Birkel are one of those that make others who agree with you politically look bad.

“Shh! Don't tell him/her.”

I had to convince myself that it wouldn’t be better in this instance to ignore his particularly vile style of commenting, but it was the perfect thread in which to call him on it. I still remember that poor pregnant woman he was harassing, I forgot her name, it’ll come to me eventually.

Birkel said...

Well, since none of that happened, like most of the things Royal ass Inga mentions on these threads, this is unmoving.

Inga said...

The pregnant female commenter’s handle was “wwww” IIRC.

Birkel said...

The liar on this thread has the handle Inga.

Nichevo said...

Ah, wwww. Pity she came here at such a vulnerable time in her life. Honorable Althouse-san run full contact dojo. No punches pulled!

What were we all supposed to do? Agree with her? Humor her? Come back when guts return to proper places, wwww-san. Is no crying in basebaru, and no crying on Blogger!

Rick said...

Inga said...You are one of the few here that refuse to accord full humanity to people

It's so cute when Inga sucks up to teacher by co-opting her words for her insults.

I had to convince myself that it wouldn’t be better in this instance to ignore his particularly vile style of commenting,


This is why Inga is pretending to be nice. She's trying to build up goodwill so her attacks are more effective. In truth she's as hateful a commenter as has ever posted at Althouse. Her Jekyll is a role to enable Mr Hyde.

Inga said...

“Ah, wwww.

What were we all supposed to do?”

Treat her as a fellow human. Don’t single her out for abuse. Don’t harass her with vile accusations. How about just be decent to her and disagree without being weird and stalker-ish. She was treated terribly by Birkel. I don’t recall any other commenter harassing her the way Birkel did. It was strange, obsessive and vile, dripping with hatred.

Birkel said...

In fact, you don't even recall her harassed by me!
But don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Your absolute moral authority depends on it.

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Unknown said...

Maybe we all should stop trying to read others’ mind and not ascribe the worst qualities to each other. None of us are innocent,...

Actually, many of us are innocent of that particular offense. Other than Chuck, I don't think anyone commenting here routinely does that. Drago, for example, may comment that Chuck is deliberately lying about something. Perhaps you think that's out of bounds. But what if Drago is right? Is it really out of bounds to call someone on a lie?

Part of the appeal of Trump to many of us is that, unlike previous Republican Presidents, he fights back against lies and liars by calling them what they are. His predecessors tried to rise above it all and act 'Presidential'. Trump is showing that fighting back is actually more effective.

Gk1 said...

Inga, Ritmo and Chuck responses are Fen's law writ large. The left never holds themselves to the same standard they hold everyone else. They don't mean a word of their lectures to the rest of us. Who knows who they really are or what they get out of crapping over the threads. I usually just keep scrolling but every once in a while I step into one of their piles. Annoying.

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