January 19, 2020

"The Articles of Impeachment are constitutionally invalid on their face. They fail to allege any crime or violation of law whatever..."

"... let alone 'high Crimes and Misdemeanors,' as required by the Constitution. They are the result of a lawless process that violated basic due process and fundamental fairness. Nothing in these Articles could permit even beginning to consider removing a duly elected President or warrant nullifying the election and subverting the will of the American people."

So reads the second paragraph of the "Answer of President Donald J. Trump" "In Proceedings Before the United States Senate."  My link goes to the PDF at the White House website. I couldn't find a text document of the 6-page letter so there's nothing to cut and paste. The White House website does have this text introduction, which, you can see, stresses the politics:
The Articles of Impeachment submitted by House Democrats are a dangerous attack on the right of the American people to freely choose their President. This is a brazen and unlawful attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election and interfere with the 2020 election—now just months away. The highly partisan and reckless obsession with impeaching the President began the day he was inaugurated and continues to this day.
Other than the word "he," that sounds like something Trump could say at a rally. It's all about the motivations of the House Democrats, which, I'd like to point out, corresponds exactly to the House Democrats' argument against Trump: He/They took the powers of government and used them for personal advantage and only personal advantage. The legitimate, governmental purpose of that power was completely absent.

If we knew for a FACT that the House Democrats acted solely for their own personal, political advantage AND that Trump acted solely for his own personal, political advantage, do the 2 transgressions cancel each other out? But we don't know these things as facts, and the Democrats are calling on the Senate to answer the question about Trump, but they can't shield themselves from the question about themselves.

I see 3 ways to untangle these parallel problems: 1. The question of the House Democrats' political motivation must be answered first, and if they are appropriating the mechanisms of government solely for political benefit, they must be stopped in the act and denied the use of the Senate, or 2. When there is a legitimate governmental purpose, it's acceptable that a desire for political gain is also present, and that should let the Democrats over the threshold but will also set up the absolution of President Trump, or 3. The political component of impeachment is inherent, open, and part of the constitutional design, entirely different from turning federal spending and foreign policy into a personal, political tool.

But I've been talking about website text introducing the 6-page Answer. In the formal Answer, Trump certainly isn't arguing So what if I'm political too?

The document says he has "not in any way 'abused the powers of the Presidency.'" Everything he did was "perfectly legal, completely appropriate, and taken in furtherance of the national interest." He did "nothing wrong." The call was so perfect that "Mr. Schiff created a fraudulent version" of the call, and that proves the Democrats "knew there was absolutely nothing wrong with that call." As for what they call "obstruction of Congress," the Democrats didn't go to court to resolve the dispute over whether Trump's claim of executive privilege was valid, so they can't turn that into a basis for impeachment.

The Answer concedes nothing. Nothing was personally political. It was all on the highest level. Of course, that's what the House Democrats say about themselves too.

457 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 457   Newer›   Newest»
Bruce Hayden said...

New page?

Bruce Hayden said...

“New page?”

Winning!!!

Birkel said...

The Democratics were going to lose in court because "We wants it!" is not a solid legal argument. Without a supported allegation of a crime there is nothing articulable that a court might have adjudicated. A 1L should have been able to write the 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss the case the House would have filed. The House and it's Lawfare advisers knew they needed to push an untested, novel legal theory in the only arena in which it would play: the press.

Withdrawing the court cases was the only available strategy for Democratics, such as our resident racist fopdoodle.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

It's now unlawful to do a good job as president in the first term. If the president does good job, that will help insure re-election, and that would benefit him personally, so that means he did his job not for the benefit of the people, of the nation, but of himself, so that is is corrupt, and abuse of power.

Chuck said...

Aunty Trump said...
Remember when Eric Holder handed over the Fast and Furious documents? Me neither. He was censured and it turned out later that that censure was racist because Congress would never get mad at a white guy for that.

Remember when the House issued a preserve evidence order to Hillary, and she took it as a hint that she should take BleachBit and hammers to 30K emails? Good times, good times!

Remember when Hillary’s lawyer for the BleachBit and hammers guy turned out to be, per Mueller’s own testimony, running the investigation day by day?

And Chuck asks why we think he supports Hillary and worships Obama.

This is what is so shitty about the Althouse comments pages. Comment after comment after comment like this; blandly accusing me of holding opinions that I have never, ever held. They drag the discussion so far afield. This desperate attempt by Trump fans to make me into a leftist. Because of course the notion is that only far-leftists oppose Trump.

Stupid, baseless attacks on me. Even more stupid as comments on this page, where the subject isn't me at all, but issues related to impeachment.

I won't do the same to any of you. I don't give a rat's ass what any of you do for a living, or who you voted for previously, or what your other unrelated political positions. I don't want to know who you are or where you live. I really don't want to know anything about any of you. I don't care about any of you.

Please, please, please. If you can't stay on topic, just ignore my comments.

Drago said...

Yancey Ward: "You have to remember- the House could have called Parnas as a witness during their investigation- same with Bolton, but they didn't."

Chuck and his dem heroes are simply running their Kavanaugh Playbook a second time.

Which wag wrote that instead of moving to the last second CBF ploy LLR-lefty Chuck's democrat morons have leaped directly to the Michael Avenatti/Julie Swetnick phase.

Birkel said...

Correct, Char Char Binks. And the only way to get re-elected, therefore, is to require a first term president pursue the narrow interests of the self-anointed (Dr. Thomas Sowell shout out!) elites, aka Deep State. The future rewards (READ: I'll-gotten gains) happen after leaving office (See, e.g. Obama, Barack).

That is what the Leftist Collectivists are advocating. They want their own serfdom.

Birkel said...

LLRacistF: "I don't give a rat's ass what any of you do for a living, or who you voted for previously, or what your other unrelated political positions. I don't want to know who you are or where you live. I really don't want to know anything about any of you. I don't care about any of you.

"Please, please, please. If you can't stay on topic, just ignore my comments."

ALSO:
If you don't, that racist son of a bitch will fight you. FIGHT YOU!

Drago said...

Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!): "I don't want to know who you are or where you live."

Whoa whoa whoa!!

Well, that is certainly a strange yet very very telling remark, isn't it?....

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

"Doesn't seem to be any real dispute over the facts. Guilty as hell"

That settles that!

Drago said...

Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck's very own, proudly admitted reasons for being here:

1) Lie about and smear Trump
2) Drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers

Those 2 loudly and proudly declared reasons for being here explain every comment LLR-lefty Chuck has made for 5 years.

Drago said...

Still waiting for that defense of McConnell against charges of being a russian asset by Pelosi that LLR-lefty Chuck said he would be happy to provide.

Any time now Chuck.....any time now...

Note: This is similar to the 2016 campaign where LLR-lefty Chuck assured us all that as soin as the primaries were over he would also be issuing criticisms of Hillary in addition to his non-stop criticisms of Trump...

...yep. The Hillary criticisms never materialized.....

Unexpectedly.

ARM would call that tediously predictable.

Beasts of England said...

It seems like only yesterday when Chuck was creating a fake poll and then assigning his assumed answer to various commenters. He did this over multiple comments - none of which were on topic. And here he is today claiming he doesn’t care about us stupid ‘Trumpkins’ yet continues to obsess over our comments, all while imploring us to ignore his.

Michael K said...

In contrast to racist fopdoodles masquerading as serious lawyers, the White House team has explained the process of defense.

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: There’s no question that, during the course of the presentations and the proceedings before the Senate and then the briefs that we’re going to be filing, we will be addressing both procedure irregularities — again, ignore those (inaudible) implications as well. And also, substantive issues that arise, including facts.

So all of that will be addressed. So, don’t — there shouldn’t be not misunderstanding that this is a factual — an attack only on process. We’re not ignoring the tainted process, because it has serious constitutional implications, but we’re going to be — it’s going to be a full throttle address.

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We will take the facts head on, and we believe that the facts will prove that the President — and have proven that the President did absolutely nothing wrong.

Q Good afternoon, [sources close to the President’s legal team]. This is Kelly O’Donnell, from NBC. When you look at the arc of how expect this trial to move forward, in terms of its length, your willingness or lack thereof to have witnesses, what is your latest thinking on what we should expect for your strategic ideas, going beyond this initial phase that you’re announcing today with the response to the articles?

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, I think that, first — the first thing we have to look for is actually how the rules come out — the final rules, what the final agreements are. And I don’t think any of us — what we’re hearing is what you’re hearing, which is 24 hours, each side — which was under the Clinton model. That the witness decisions would be made after the presentation of the actual arguments by both counsels — or by the Managers and by our team.


And so on....

Chuck said...

Yancey Ward: "You have to remember- the House could have called Parnas as a witness during their investigation- same with Bolton, but they didn't."

But because of the SDNY investigation, the Parnas phone, data and other documents weren't available at that time.

The House certainly wanted to hear from Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo, Duffey and Blair. They wanted lots of documents that Trump would not allow them to have.

Please don't try to pretend that the House didn't care about -- or didn't want -- additional witnesses or evidence.

And in fact, I have many misgivings about almost everything that Democrats have done in this process.

~ I think that it is shameful that there were so many early, baseless calls by far left Democrats to "impeach the motherfucker" before any evidence existed to support an impeachment.

~ I think that during the impeachment inquiry, the House Judiciary Committee made a mistake by not inviting any of the many conservative Republican legal experts who support Trump's impeachment. And instead, they invited some predictable left-leaning lawprofs.

~ I think that the House makes a mistake by not elevating Justin Amash as an impeachment manager. Atlhough it isn't clear that he would ha ve accepted the job.

~ I would have been happy enough -- politics and election schedules be damned -- to see the Democrats run down all Executive Branch witnesses and evidence in court. I think that Trump would lose in the end. Like he loses so many legal cases.

tim in vermont said...

"Please, please, please. If you can't stay on topic, just ignore my comments.”

Oh, I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about “obstruction of Congress,” a subject to which earlier instances of such “obstruction” which never resulted in any talk of impeachment, outside perhaps the nattering classes, occurred is certainly germane.

tim in vermont said...

"Please don't try to pretend that the House didn't care about -- or didn't want -- additional witnesses or evidence.”

I am sure they did, but they wanted to impeach Trump on the anniversary of the Clinton impeachment more.

John henry said...

Here's the full text of the Clinton impeachment

https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-resolution/611/text

11 criminal charges

ARTICLE I is about perjured grand jury testimony 4 counts regarding:

(1) the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee;

(2) prior perjurious, false and misleading testimony he gave in a Federal civil rights action brought against him;

(3) prior false and misleading statements he allowed his attorney to make to a Federal judge in that civil rights action; and

(4) his corrupt efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and to impede the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action.

Article 2 is about witness tampering and more perjury, 7 counts:

(1) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to execute a sworn affidavit in that proceeding that he knew to be perjurious, false and misleading.

(2) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to give perjurious, false and misleading testimony if and when called to testify personally in that proceeding.

(3) On or about December 28, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly engaged in, encouraged, or supported a scheme to conceal evidence that had been subpoenaed in a Federal civil rights action brought against him.

(4) Beginning on or about December 7, 1997, and continuing through and including January 14, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton intensified and succeeded in an effort to secure job assistance to a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him in order to corruptly prevent the truthful testimony of that witness in that proceeding at a time when the truthful testimony of that witness would have been harmful to him.

(5) On January 17, 1998, at his deposition in a Federal civil rights action brought against him, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly allowed his attorney to make false and misleading statements to a Federal judge characterizing an affidavit, in order to prevent questioning deemed relevant by the judge. Such false and misleading statements were subsequently acknowledged by his attorney in a communication to that judge.

(6) On or about January 18 and January 20, 21, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton related a false and misleading account of events relevant to a Federal civil rights action brought against him to a potential witness in that proceeding, in order to corruptly influence the testimony of that witness.

(7) On or about January 21, 23, and 26, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton made false and misleading statements to potential witnesses in a Federal grand jury proceeding in order to corruptly influence the testimony of those witnesses. The false and misleading statements made by William Jefferson Clinton were repeated by the witnesses to the grand jury, causing the grand jury to receive false and misleading information.

John Henry

tim in vermont said...

"~ I would have been happy enough -- politics and election schedules be damned -- to see the Democrats run down all Executive Branch witnesses and evidence in court.”

Stopping short, as Schiff clearly does, of witnesses that could establish that Trump had a national interest basis for any actions regarding Ukraine’s election interference.

This whole impeachment is about covering up for the uniparty’s corrupt abuse of our power relationship with Ukraine for personal gain, not uncovering it.

Birkel said...

"Want documents" =/= Have a legal right to documents from a co-equal branch of government

Did you actually study any constitutional law inside (HA!) or outside law school? Federal Rules of Evidence? Criminal Procesure? Civil Procedure?

Do you know how ridiculous the things you type are?

Racism: Does it make people stupid fopdoodles? Or does being a fopdoodle make you a stupid racist?

Drago said...

Banned Commemter LLR-lefty Chuck: "But because of the SDNY investigation, the Parnas phone, data and other documents weren't available at that time."

LOLOLOLOLOL

As this farce moves forward to its inevitable destruction, LLR-lefty Chuck's lies will become ever more pathetic and transparent.

tim in vermont said...

Pelosi’s kid is an “energy executive” in Ukraine.

Roughcoat said...

To hate someone you need at least some modicum of respect for them

Wrong. I hate the Democrat Party and I have no respect for Democrats, not even a modicum.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck: "~ I think that the House makes a mistake by not elevating Justin Amash as an impeachment manager. Atlhough it isn't clear that he would ha ve accepted the job."

LOL

Amash has some serious ChiCom funding issues himself.

Hey, perhaps that WOULD make him a perfect addition to Schiffty and Nads!

Qwinn said...

Chuck: What you quoted was entirely on topic. Aunt's comment pointed out your hypocrisy, by holding Trump to standards never applied to Obama or Hillary. You hate Trump, we get that, but if you're were in any way a conservative, you would ALSO hold Obama and Hillary to task for actions that were unqualifiedly worse - and completely analogous otherwise - than what you're losing your mind over Trump doing.

But you never, ever do that. A once-every-3-weeks tepid "I didn't like Obama or Hillary either" with no specifics and NEVER EVER help up in contrast to what Trump did if Trump would come out favorably - which is pretty much everything - doesn't qualify.

THAT is why you have less than zero credibility as a "conservative". Well, that and the constant lying.

Drago said...

Aunty Trump: "Pelosi’s kid is an “energy executive” in Ukraine."

So is Romney's....and so is John Kerry's stepson.

And would now be a good time to re-look at the Podestas many russian/ukrainian energy connections?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

A lot of people here seem to be having trouble understanding that more than one thing can be true at one time. (a) Yes, it is true that the Dems have been looking for a reason to impeach Trump. (b) Yes, it is true that Trump has given them one.

Given (a), how fucking stupid do you have to be to provide (b)? Trump has no strategy, no self-control and no morals. Clinton at least had strategy.

John henry said...

If you don't, that racist son of a bitch will fight you. FIGHT YOU!

Noisy he won't, Birkel.

Thunderdrome2020.blogspot.com is open and waiting.

Chuck is afraid. He's just a big pussy.

John Henry

Yancey Ward said...

"But because of the SDNY investigation, the Parnas phone, data and other documents weren't available at that time."

Parnas was available, though, and Parnas also still had those documents and/or knew of them. The Democrats didn't call Parnas because they know he is full of shit and wouldn't stand up to any kind of cross examination, even one controlled by Schiff. They won't call him in the Senate either for the exact same reasons, Chuck. Parnas is a bluff by the Democrats. Drago above is correct- he is the Julie Swetnik of impeachment- someone whose only testimony is going to be media interviews where no one will ask an inconvenient question.

Drago said...

Its adorable how ARM keeps piping up with.....nothing because he cant even be bothered to familiarize himself with the barest basics of what is happening.

So yes, at this point ARM has become gadfly.

tim in vermont said...

Remember when Nancy Pelosi appeared in a promotional video for her son’s employer in Ukraine, an energy company?

https://twitter.com/HowleyReporter/status/1179893713214025729

Go with us, we’re connected! I am sure that Pelosi wants all the facts out regarding Ukraine as much as Romney does... Oh wait..

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/26/top-romney-adviser-worked-with-hunter-biden-on-board-of-ukrainian-energy-company/

Google does it’s best to hide that last result. If you don’t know exactly what you are looking for, you will never find it.

tim in vermont said...

"(b) Yes, it is true that Trump has given them one.”

I think you misspelled “the thinnest of pretexts” “reason."

John henry said...

Just to be clear for some pedants here, I did not include the full text of the Clinton impeachment. Just a link to it.

I did include the full text of the 11 criminal counts.

John Henry

Birkel said...

I agree with ARM.
Trump gave Pelosi a reason to impeach Trump base on two things:
1. Trump beat Hillary, and
2. Democrats won more than 219 House seats (accounting for the Drew defection).

Those are REASONS in Democratics' minds.

tim in vermont said...

"And would now be a good time to re-look at the Podestas many russian/ukrainian energy connections?”

You mean those millions of dollars worth of shares in a “clean energy company” that was controlled by Gazprom that became worthless within hours of Hillary’s election loss? Remember that Burisma has been hacked, and so you are not allowed to read any of the dirt on Democrats that has come out, but actually the New York Times already laid out how the new prosecutor who replaced Shokin cleared Burisma after much greasing of Democrat palms and dropping of Biden’s name.

tim in vermont said...

Interestingly, Pelosi’s son is also in the pay of a “clean energy company.” It’s almost a tell for corruption because they are a place where government money can get dumped and laundered back to those voting the funds.

tim in vermont said...

Republicans should call Paul Pelosi. Let him go to court to “obstruct" the Senate.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

My drive to the gym this morning would have broken Ross Douthat's heart. Outside the Episcopal church there was a scattering of cars, more outside the Roman Catholic church, almost certainly mostly hispanics. In contrast the gym parking lot was packed. Inside, the yoga studio, the cardio and weight rooms were all packed. There is currently a certain anxiety about the loss of trust in ancient and once revered institutions, including the church. Maybe people are just getting more practical, investing in those things that actually produce at least some positive results.

mockturtle said...

Rhhardin suggests: New rule: if the senate doesn't convict, all the house members voting for impeachment are impeached.

Good idea! Kinda like when a football coach challenges a call and, if he's wrong, he loses a time out. Of course, I'm much rather see them pushed off a cliff...

tim in vermont said...

I watched an interesting old movie the other day with William Holden called "The Counterfeit Traitor,” it was a long tale of how people get compromised into doing stuff, and then owned. Democrats own Romney because he is compromised.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

How is Romney any more compromised than McConnell?

tim in vermont said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

OK, I will bite, how is McConnell compromised. We know Romney is involved in Ukraine baksheesh.

Birkel said...

Which McConnell associates are paid by Ukrainian interests, ARM?

Are you breaking news?

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

BCARM, why are you still disputing? You said there's no dispute, so just STFUA.

tim in vermont said...

I would love to see a list of Democrat Senators who have declared themselves undecided. Manchin maybe? Feinstein said the articles are BS, but she is going to base her vote on “other reasons.”

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

McConnell's wife and family have benefited enormously from McConnell selling the US manufacturing industry to the Chinese.

“In 2008, James Chao gave the [McConnells] a gift of as much as US$25 million, vaulting Mr McConnell into the ranks of the richest senators.”

On top of that, “13 members of the extended Chao family have given more than US$1 million to Mr McConnell’s campaigns and to political action committees tied to him”.

In terms of its effects on regular US workers, McConnell's actions are vastly worse than anything you are talking about. The Ukraine is small beer economically.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Chuck, I am curious. Suppose for the sake of argument it was shown that Trump was legitimately concerned with the possibility (probability?) that Joe Biden used his official powers to benefit his son when he threatened to withhold aid unless the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired? In your view, would that justify a no-conviction vote?

Chuck said...

Mr. Majestyk said...
Chuck, I am curious. Suppose for the sake of argument it was shown that Trump was legitimately concerned with the possibility (probability?) that Joe Biden used his official powers to benefit his son when he threatened to withhold aid unless the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired? In your view, would that justify a no-conviction vote?


Yes, I think it might well compel such a result. Right now, virtually every bit of evidence that I am aware of points against that. I don't think I have seen a single piece of convincing evidence to the contrary, supporting Trump.

After Trump was caught in the media withholding the aid, he promptly released it. But then what? If there was a compelling need to investigate Ukrainian corruption, what happened next? What efforts were made to pursue such an investigation as, like, a legitimate thing? Why was the aid released when it was, other than Trump's embarrassment at getting caught? What cooperation agreement was made, to pursue Ukrainian corruption?

There are no good answers to any of that. And in fact, Trump isn't even trying. Are there any answers to the questions I posed in any of the Trump defense teams filings or correspondence with Congress? I don't think so.

tim in vermont said...

Like I have always said, they are all corrupt, but what does that have to do with this trial? Romney’s compromise is directly related to the subject of the impeachment.

I am not sure why you are so interested in seeing this Ukrainian corruption covered up even if it is “small beer.” The journey of a thousand miles, and all that.

Chuck said...

And one more thing, Mr. Majestyk:

You've chosen an odd hill to fight on. Namely, the matter of Vice President Biden's pursuing acknowledged American policy by encouraging a known corrupt Ukrainian official to resign.

Trump was pursuing a private favor by withholding aid that was important to Ukrainian security (and by extension U.S. national security).

It's one thing to ask for an investigation of Hunter Biden's position with Burisma. It's quite another to challenge the then-Vice President's conduct in an official visit to a foreign government.

Michael K said...

ARM nonsense.

Given (a), how fucking stupid do you have to be to provide (b)? Trump has no strategy, no self-control and no morals. Clinton at least had strategy.

Trump stumbled into the Iran takeout of the Iran terror mastermind. He stumbled into the first good China deal. Finally reversing 40 years of collaboration by multi nationals. The economy is roaring with unemployment at a 50 year low. Dow Jones at 30,000.

Nope. No strategy.

Clinton had a strategy like Epstein had,. Blowjobs from young girls.

McConnell may have to pay some day and I don't trust him past votes for judges but Biden is not only a crook but an incompetent.

The whole thing about the Deep State is we could have tolerated them if only they were competent. And were not 100% focused on their own benefit.

You just picked the dummy team, ARM.

Michael K said...

In terms of its effects on regular US workers, McConnell's actions are vastly worse than anything you are talking about. The Ukraine is small beer economically.

That remains to be seen. You just don't get it, ARM. Biden has NO redeeming value. He is a clown. Hillary is a clown but evil. Biden is just stupid. You chose the loser team.

tim in vermont said...

" I don't think I have seen a single piece of convincing evidence to the contrary,”

“Convincing” there’s a weasel word you could drive a truck though. They said “completely absent.” Trump had read stories in respected media outlets outlining Ukrainian corruption and election interference on behalf of Hillary. Why should he give them more shovels full of cash without at least a nod towards dealing with corruption?

Your problem is that he didn’t push it hard enough, which in no way supports the idea that the national interest was “completely absent."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So McConnell's actions are literally killing Americans - deaths of despair are at all time highs in the regions decimated by Republican industrial policies - but the sleazy behavior of Biden's son is the big problem?

McConnell is a traitor, Joe Biden's son is a sleazebag.

tim in vermont said...

"the matter of Vice President Biden's pursuing acknowledged American policy by encouraging a known corrupt Ukrainian official to resign.”

There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that removing Shokin was American policy that predates Biden’s firing, nor has Shokin been prosecuted for any corruption. On the other hand, Burisma skated under the new prosecutor, after, as I have said, well documented greasing of Democrat palms and dropping of the Biden name.

Also there is no evidence that Europe or the IMF had any problem with Shokin prior to the Biden demand that he be fired.

tim in vermont said...

I thought we just spent three years perseverating as a nation on foreign election interference, but now, when it would appear that Democrats are behind it, it all goes out the window, except for Trumps “obstruction” of Democrats’ attempts to frame him in that baseless investigation?

Jeez Louise ARM.

Chuck said...

mockturtle said...
Rhhardin suggests: New rule: if the senate doesn't convict, all the house members voting for impeachment are impeached.

Good idea! Kinda like when a football coach challenges a call and, if he's wrong, he loses a time out. Of course, I'm much rather see them pushed off a cliff...


You should realize that the case of Senator Blount in 1797 established the principle that the Congressional bodies can expel one of their members, but that they don't do impeachments, since it is now accepted that MC's are not "civil officers" under Article II, Section 4.

Even if you weren't so legally unsupported, what do you suppose would be the vote in the House, on articles of impeachment proposed against Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler?

tim in vermont said...

A news release from the company said Hunter Biden would “be in charge of the holdings’ legal unit and will provide support for the company among international organizations.” Mr. Biden said the news release mischaracterized his role with Burisma. “At no time was I in charge of the company’s legal affairs,” he said.

Among the Americans brought in by Hunter Biden’s American business partners to help fend off the investigations was Blue Star Strategies, a consulting firm run by Clinton administration veterans that had done substantial work in Ukraine.

A team from Blue Star, and an American lawyer Blue Star hired, John D. Buretta, who had served as a senior official in the Obama Justice Department, held two previously unreported meetings in Kiev, Ukraine’s capital, with Mr. Lutsenko, who took office in May 2016 after Mr. Shokin’s dismissal, according to people with direct knowledge of the meetings. Mr. Lutsenko denied attending the meeting.

Mr. Lutsenko initially took a hard line against Burisma. But within 10 months after he took office, Burisma announced that Mr. Lutsenko and the courts had “fully closed” all “legal proceedings and pending criminal allegations” against Mr. Zlochevsky and his companies, and that the oligarch had been removed by a Ukrainian court from “the wanted list.” Mr. Zlochevsky returned to the country.
. - New York Times

Son of a bitch!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I find it interesting that ARM can rally facts in support of his opinion on McConnell yet cannot point to one fact in evidence of a crime committed by Trump. If asking Ukraine for help untangling the facts of the 2016 election is a crime you need to be able to explain what that crime is and how that act is NOT in our national interest, something the long rambling repetitive yet self-refuting Article 1 submitted to the Senate does not do? What exactly is the high crime comparable to bribery? Where is the specific criminal law that was violated by Trump? No one has pointed it out yet here or anywhere else.

tim in vermont said...

The proof is in the pudding.

tim in vermont said...

ARM’s comments are not intended to convince anybody with an IQ supra room temperature, Mike. It’s why you find them mystifying.

He’s just trying to move the laser dot off of the real issues.

Achilles said...

buwaya said...
Power is all. The 17 judges in question were subject to a greater power, which swatted them away as annoyances and impediments to public order. These judges had no real powers backing them, money or powerful advocates, or public support.

But in a conflict between the president and congress? That is a power struggle.

Abandon delusion.



You all are arguing with ARM and Chuck. This is folly.

They have made it clear they do not care about the actual Law or the Constitution or legal Elections. They know their party is corrupt. They know this is a naked blatant power grab.

The problem is you don't understand the situation.

You should be reading buwaya's comments and dealing with the truth. Democrats in Virginia are making it clear exactly where they plan on going.

If they doubt your resolve they will try to pull our country down.



Chuck said...

So where does this important and critical investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden stand now? Who's on it? DoJ? FBI? Both? More agencies? IG? State Dept.?

tim in vermont said...

A team from Blue Star, and an American lawyer Blue Star hired, John D. Buretta, who had served as a senior official in the Obama Justice Department, held two previously unreported meetings in Kiev, Ukraine’s capital, with Mr. Lutsenko, who took office in May 2016 after Mr. Shokin’s dismissal, according to people with direct knowledge of the meetings. Mr. Lutsenko denied attending the meeting.

Jeezum Crow!, I guess I had just skipped over that plot thickening paragraph. Burisma’s lawyers were meeting with the prosecutor Biden installed prior to Biden installing him!

Qwinn said...

So Chuck's problem is that Trump didn't investigate the Bidens enough during a time when Democrats were openly insisting that investigating Bidens at all amounts to an impeachable offense, and followed through on it.

That seems convenient, Goldilocks.

Achilles said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
So McConnell's actions are literally killing Americans - deaths of despair are at all time highs in the regions decimated by Republican industrial policies - but the sleazy behavior of Biden's son is the big problem?

McConnell is a traitor, Joe Biden's son is a sleazebag.



This is what you are dealing with.

Stop pretending you are opposed by decent people who just disagree.

The left will do anything to get power over you and once they have it they will persecute any who oppose them.

tim in vermont said...

"So where does this important and critical investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden stand now?”

I am sure you know what Bill Clinton said, that “the best way to keep your opponent from badmouthing you is to keep your fist in their mouth.” This impeachment was concocted to prevent such an investigation. But since you have taken the side of the Democrats and handed over your facility for reason to their political ministrations, you can’t see it.

And Trump didn’t even bring up Burisma, BTW, Zelensky did.

tim in vermont said...

“China is not our enemy.” - Joe Biden

But you can bet that ARM will be supporting him full throttle if he gets the nod.

tim in vermont said...

"deaths of despair are at all time highs in the regions decimated by Republican industrial policies”

Ha ha ha ha! Wow. I think that they are enjoying record low unemployment.

Mr. Majestyk said...

"So where does this important and critical investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden stand now? Who's on it? DoJ? FBI? Both? More agencies? IG? State Dept.?"

Chuck, if Trump directed DOJ to investigate Biden and his son, what do you think would be the reaction from the Dems and the media?

Achilles said...

Mr. Majestyk said...
Chuck, I am curious. Suppose for the sake of argument it was shown that Trump was legitimately concerned with the possibility (probability?) that Joe Biden used his official powers to benefit his son when he threatened to withhold aid unless the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired? In your view, would that justify a no-conviction vote?


Pointless intellectual exercise.

Chuck doesn't give a shit about Biden's obvious corruption. Or Kerry's. Or Obama's, Or Clinton's.

Chuck doesn't care that there is no law broken. He wont even admit that Trump withholding aid until it was determined whether or not corrupt democrat/GOPe pol's were laundering our tax payer funded foreign aid back to themselves is his responsibility.

Chuck wants power over the people he hates.

If you haven't noticed, that is you.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Along with Aunty Trump I’d also like to know more about this alleged “crooked prosecutor” Joe got fired, because there is not law enforcement agency in any country that has ever accused Shokin or prosecuted HIM? Other than SlowJoes mouth, where is the “evidence” Shokin was corrupt and needed to be fired? Isn’t he current part of Zelensky’s government even now?

Qwinn said...

Trump told Zelensky that he'd have Barr contact him during the phone call. Democrats (and I'm pretty sure Chuck too) had a cow about that. Why, not quite sure, but they did. Now Chuck is screaming because Barr isn't involved enough?

Yeah, there's far more evidence that Chuck and the Left are arguing in a complete absence of good faith than that Trump did even the most microscopically bad thing wrong here.

tim in vermont said...

Per Steve McIntyres analysis of the news stories on the subject, the allegations of corruption against Shokin whose dates could be confirmed came after the fact of his firing.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Blogger Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I find it interesting that ARM can rally facts in support of his opinion on McConnell yet cannot point to one fact in evidence of a crime committed by Trump.


This is a thoughtless comment. The newspapers have been packed for months with testimony and documents demonstrating Trump's involvement in strong arming the Ukraine for his personal political gain. Currently we have my current favorite Trump henchman giving interviews to whoever will listen that Trump directed the whole operation. What more do you need?

Mike Sylwester said...

12:24 PM
After Trump was caught in the media withholding the aid, he promptly released it. But then what? If there was a compelling need to investigate Ukrainian corruption, what happened next?

What happened next was that any attempt to investigate Ukrainians bribing the Biden family became an impeachable offense.

If you, Chuck, could get fired from your own job for investigating an untouchable politician in your own town, then you too might hesitate to investigate him.

Chuck said...

Qwinn said...
So Chuck's problem is that Trump didn't investigate the Bidens enough during a time when Democrats were openly insisting that investigating Bidens at all amounts to an impeachable offense, and followed through on it.

No, I am suggesting that Trump never had the slightest interest in Ukrainian corruption, or the corruption of U.S. foreign aid.

And I don't think that Trump has the slightest interest in Hunter Biden or Burisma.

I am suggesting that Trump's sole interest was in a public announcement that could be turned into a political/media scandal that would hurt Joe Biden.

I am also suggesting that the one and only reason that Trump was withholding aid to Ukraine was to pressure the newly-elected President Zelensky into making that announcement.

And now that you know all of that, you no longer need to guess about my thinking or to otherwise mischaracterize me.

Chuck said...

Mike Sylwester said...
12:24 PM
After Trump was caught in the media withholding the aid, he promptly released it. But then what? If there was a compelling need to investigate Ukrainian corruption, what happened next?

What happened next was that any attempt to investigate Ukrainians bribing the Biden family became an impeachable offense.

If you, Chuck, could get fired from your own job for investigating an untouchable politician in your own town, then you too might hesitate to investigate him.


I don't understand. If there are such extreme and facially valid suspicions about the Bidens and Burisma an Ukraine, why is the FBI and the DoJ not taking the lead? Why is Giuliani mucking around with no legal authority?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

The “one thing I need” is the actual crime Trump violated, something you and the DNC-Media talk about ceaselessly without ever specifying the actual crime. Okay, we’ve all heard more commentary on the subject than we can stand! So stipulated. What is the crime ARM? Name it or admit you cannot.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

It’s pretty fucking simple ARM yet you fail at it!

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 12:28 PM
... encouraging a known corrupt Ukrainian official to resign

What's the evidence that General Prosecutor Shokin was corrupt?

* Has Shokin been charged for any corrupt actions?

* Has Shokin even been investigated for any corrupt actions?

* Has the new General Prosecutor initiated any investigations that Shokin had prevented?

* Has the new General Prosecutor stopped any investigations that Shokin had started?

Please provide a link to concrete evidence that Shokin was corrupt.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Aunty Trump said...
Ha ha ha ha! Wow. I think that they are enjoying record low unemployment.


This is an extraordinarily clueless comment. The 'they' is a tell. Aunty Trump, like the DJ Trump, doesn't give a fuck about American workers. If 'they' are dying, too bad. She doesn't care enough to even pay attention to their deaths.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Michael Avenatti, Michael Cohen, Lev Parnas. That's how Democrats roll.

Michael K said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
So McConnell's actions are literally killing Americans - deaths of despair are at all time highs in the regions decimated by Republican industrial policies - but the sleazy behavior of Biden's son is the big problem?


That's it. ARM is insane. Possibly lying but it's hard to believe that he cannot see the evidence of industrial recovery since Trump took office and began to turn the ship. Most of it is simple regulation cancelling. Some is the China trade deal, which Democrats deny and look away from.

The "decimated" regions were decimated by Obama's Great Recession and by the bipartisan cooperation with China that is coming to an end.

Chuck said...

Qwinn said...
Trump told Zelensky that he'd have Barr contact him during the phone call. Democrats (and I'm pretty sure Chuck too) had a cow about that. Why, not quite sure, but they did. Now Chuck is screaming because Barr isn't involved enough?

Yeah, there's far more evidence that Chuck and the Left are arguing in a complete absence of good faith than that Trump did even the most microscopically bad thing wrong here.


I think you just convinced me to add Barr to the witness list.

But what I am saying moreover is that if there is Ukrainian corruption that we should be worried about, we should be investigating it through the arms of the federal government that are designed for that function. DoJ, FBI, etc.

And the exact wrong way to do it -- the way that telegraphs illegality and self-dealing -- is to have a back channel established through Giuliani, with the mechanism of extracting an "announcement" of an investigation being the withholding of aid. Followed by a coverup of the withholding of aid.

It's very simple; if we need to have an investigation of alleged Ukrainian corruption, we should have that investigation. Through standard means.

Michael K said...

Aunty Trump, like the DJ Trump, doesn't give a fuck about American workers. If 'they' are dying, too bad. She doesn't care enough to even pay attention to their deaths.

More insanity. This is beyond lying. Watch how they vote, cowboy,.

Qwinn said...

"why is the FBI and DOJ not taking the lead?"

The same FBI and DOJ that took the lead in a coup attempt against Trump while exonerating Democrats of everything and passing around immunity to them like candy for literally nothing, not even testimony, in return.

I can't fucking imagine why they wouldn't have been motivated to do that, Chuck. My God you're an asshole.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 12:51 PM
So where does this important and critical investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden stand now? Who's on it? DoJ? FBI? Both? More agencies? IG? State Dept.?

Investigating the Biden family is an impeachable offense.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

ARM = #FAIL

If you can’t name the crime don’t waste my time.

We’ll have to simply skip over him the way we do asshole Chuck.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Maybe some of the commentators here should read up a little on what is actually going on in this country. This is a good place to start.

Achilles said...

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
The “one thing I need” is the actual crime Trump violated, something you and the DNC-Media talk about ceaselessly without ever specifying the actual crime. Okay, we’ve all heard more commentary on the subject than we can stand! So stipulated. What is the crime ARM? Name it or admit you cannot.

You know he can't.

You know he doesn't care.

This is as corrupt and naked an abuse as it gets.

Once he has the opportunity he will eliminate your ability to defend yourself and your ability to speak open disagreement.

Just like they are in Virginia right now.

Stop pretending this is a political disagreement.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Mike, are you seriously arguing that you so completely lack basic internet search skills that you cannot find the articles of impeachment? That is what Trump is charged with. You may not like it but that is not my problem.

Chuck said...

Qwinn said...
"why is the FBI and DOJ not taking the lead?"

The same FBI and DOJ that took the lead in a coup attempt against Trump while exonerating Democrats of everything and passing around immunity to them like candy for literally nothing, not even testimony, in return.

I can't fucking imagine why they wouldn't have been motivated to do that, Chuck. My God you're an asshole.

The current DoJ is being led by Trump Toady Bill Barr. And you don't trust it?

This is the nihilism of end-stage Trumpism. That the FBI and DoJ canot be trusted on anything anymore. The whole entire Deep State can't be trusted. Oh, except when Trump gets to go after bad guys like Suleimani. Then it is "intelligence."

I'm not wasting any more of my time on this bullshit.

Let's call the witnesses.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 1:14 PM
why is the FBI and the DoJ not taking the lead?

Do you know what DOJ/FBI is or is not doing?

------

Since 2016, DOJ/FBI has spent a lot of effort trying to prevent Trump from being the US President.

Maybe now, belatedly, DOJ/FBI has begun to investigate Ukrainians bribing the Biden family. If so, then the public is not informed, one way or the other.

narciso said...

exactly, now there really isn't a great deal of interest in pursuing zylochevsky, because he puts up that 'clean energy conference' for the last few year in Monaco, home of the Firestarter mannikin's associates, the grimaldis, that invites leading business and political figures, from fmr foreign ministers, like radical joshka fisher, to randy tory osce delegation chief potter, as for the big boss, kolomoisky, well he was powerful retainers, with ties even to the democratic congress,

walter said...

ARM,
Are you seriously pretending you don't understand Mike's question?

Qwinn said...

So the tactic is, scream and rant for Trump conducting his duties by standard means, then claim when he is forced to use alternate means that the fact he didn't use standard means is evidence of a crime.

Fuck the witnesses. What we need is gallows.

narciso said...

durham who's a veteran of these sorts of investigations, both here in the bulger case, and abroad in the narrative that dan jones, future regurgitator of fusion propaganda, spun about aggressive interrogations, that brennan felched electronically,

Chuck said...

Mike Sylwester said...
Chuck at 12:51 PM
So where does this important and critical investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden stand now? Who's on it? DoJ? FBI? Both? More agencies? IG? State Dept.?

Investigating the Biden family is an impeachable offense.


No, god damn it. You're not often this dense.

Trump is not being impeached for investigating the Bidens. He is being impeached for withholding the important defensive aid to Ukraine, for trying to extract an announcement to hurt Joe Biden, and for trying to hide it all from Congress and the public.

I keep asking you; if an investigation of the Biden family was so important, where does that important investigation stand right now? What was being done to advance that investigation even as the Ukraine aid was released? And WHY was that Ukraine aid ever released, if Trump had such a good reason to withhold it in the first place?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
The current DoJ is being led by Trump Toady Bill Barr. And you don't trust it?

This is the nihilism of end-stage Trumpism.


They don't and it is. There are numerous idiots on the internet regularly arguing that the left covered up Epstein's murder, without apparently having enough knowledge to understand who the only person that could have orchestrated that coverup happens to be.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Are you seriously not understanding what articles of impeachment are?

narciso said...

I actually found out about this angle from npr's print section,

https://clintonfoundationtimeline.com/tags/monaco/

yes, if it resembles the shindig that the villain in quantum of solace, put on that's not accidental,

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 1:20 PM
we should be investigating it through the arms of the federal government that are designed for that function. DoJ, FBI

It's too bad that DOJ/FBI has forfeited its reputation as a non-partisan institution.

During 2016-2019, DOJ/FBI tormented Trump with the RussiaGate hoax. Why should Trump -- or the Republican electorate -- trust DOJ/FBI now.

DOJ/FBI exonerated Hillary Clinton and tried to frame Donald Trump.

DOJ/FBI used the same methods against Trump that it uses when it tries to remove a Mafia boss. DOJ/FBI looked for vulnerable people around Trump and then prosecuted them and offered them deals if they would agree to snitch on Trump.

That changed only in 2019 after William Barr became the Attorney General. Barr still is struggling to restore DOJ/FBI's former reputation as a non-partisan institution.

The State Department, likewise, is not a non-partisan institution.

walter said...

A more direct answer, ARM, is that crimes were not alleged...nor needed when the politics will suffice to push it through.
And "Obstruction of congress" is Schiff et al doing more creative writing.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

If you can’t name the crime don’t waste my time.

narciso said...

now it appears Andrew peek, chief middle east analyst at the nsc, might have been the leaker, misrepresenting the suleimani hit and consequences,

tim in vermont said...

If there are increased deaths of despair, they have to do with the destruction of the culture Democrats have been pushing as well as the denuding of American manufacturing while the cosseted blue staters get rich. And if you honestly believed it, you would be supporting Trump’s hard line with China, rather than trying to weaken him for a guy like Biden, who has supped at the trough of Chinese baksheesh himself to take over.

I am sick of this “imperfect vessel” for the right issues bilge. Nobody else, and I mean nobody, gave a flying fuck about these people before Trump took up the mantle, with the possible exception of Palin.

Qwinn said...

The reason there is no apparent ongoing investigation of the Bidens is obviously that Congress has engaged in wholesale Obstruction of Justice to that end. The impeachment itself. Fucking duh.

Jim at said...

You know, if we only had a transcript we could read so we could actually find out what was said in that phone call.

Oh, well.

narciso said...

well he is a blunt instrument, like that montague fellow in the atlantic pointed out, maybe it's what's needed,

indeed most (but not all) who couldn't stomach the huntress, Schmidt, Wallace, dowd, it's a long list can't tolerate trump either,

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I do not know how many times it has been pointed out on this blog, including by Althouse herself, that impeachment is not a criminal trial.

From wiki:
"The purposes underlying the impeachment process also indicate that non-criminal activity may constitute sufficient grounds for impeachment.[1][9] The purpose of impeachment is not to inflict personal punishment for criminal activity. Instead, impeachment is a "remedial" tool; it serves to effectively "maintain constitutional government" by removing individuals unfit for office.[1][10] Grounds for impeachment include abuse of the particular powers of government office or a violation of the "public trust"—conduct that is unlikely to be barred via statute.[1][8][10]

In drawing up articles of impeachment, the House has placed little emphasis on criminal conduct.[1] Less than one-third of the articles that the House have adopted have explicitly charged the violation of a criminal statute or used the word "criminal" or "crime" to describe the conduct alleged.[1]"

Chuck said...

Mike Sylvester; be clear.

If there is a reasonable suspicion of ongoing serious corruption in Urkaine that affects U.S. interests or which involves U.S. citizens, should that be the subject of an investigation by the DoJ? A DoJ under AG Barr? Or the FBI, under Director Wray, who was nominated by Trump?

Or should it be handled by Rudy Giuliani and his guys? His guys who used to include Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.

Or, alternatively, should it be handled by Ukraine? With no U.S. involvement?

Qwinn said...

ARM: the vast majority of articles against Clinton were for actual crimes, specifically perjury. But you know that.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Aunty Trump said...
If there are increased deaths of despair


IF???

Trump’s hard line with China

Do you really believe this stuff? What fraction of the recent agreement with China do you believe China will honor?

narciso said...

and the Schiff show continues,


https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/1218925585944236032?s=20

Michael K said...

It's interesting to see the crazy left, mostly ARM and Chuck today, making no sense whatever in these crazy statements that have no relationship to the truth. There is no use trying to reason with these people who are far beyond reason.

Why does Trump drive his opponents so crazy ?

Well back to my book. Ricochet, even with a couple of NeverTrumpers, is nothing like this.

tim in vermont said...

"What fraction of the recent agreement with China do you believe China will honor?”

So you are suggesting war?

narciso said...

I'll probably get on to 'ghost fleet' in a bit, that's about the result of all the technology and industrial transfer we have done with china,


https://twitter.com/wheelertweets/status/1218976536327487496


interesting in addition to naftogaz lobbying vindman, so did a Libyan faction,


Gk1 said...

It's pretty bad when your lefty's friends facebook feed has no mention of impeachment other than Pelosi's Bill Maher appearance. All the stories on Parnas went from "bombshell" are now using terms like "back tracking" and "credibility problems". Oh dear, its been a rough couple of months hasn't it for the democrats? I'm at ground zero for progressives and even they are tired of talking about this.

Drago said...

Still waiting on that Chuck defense of McConnell......

LOL

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

So ARM cannot articulate an actual crime committed by Trump. So noted.

ARM can also stop referring to the articles of impeachment, because as I have said and he has proven, no actual crime is alleged in either article of impeachment. No crime. A lot of projecting about Trump motives but no crime. No shit the act is political, but the facts are supposed to reflect HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS as the Constitution says and none are articulated.

No crime. That is what makes this impeachment different.

If you can’t name the crime don’t waste my time.

narciso said...


https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/18/david-brock-american-bridge-dark-money/

Drago said...

I'll bet Chuck is composing that defense of McConnellas we speak.

Lefty ARM called McConnell a traitor in this very thread....I'll bet Chuck cant wait to jump on that!!

Any minute now....

Drago said...

Go ahead Chuck! Let ARM know what you think of ARM's moronic smear!!

Any minute now....

Chuck said...

It's always so much fun to read George Conway's wonderful Twitter feed. I got this Tweet from a George Conway re-Tweet:

https://twitter.com/EricColumbus/status/1217592556663513089

It's Trump, back in December, doing his usual blowhard thing about how he wants Pompeo, Mulvaney and Rick Perry to testify "in the Senate," where he thinks it will be fair.

Lol!

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 1:33 PM
Trump is not being impeached for investigating the Bidens. He is being impeached for withholding the important defensive aid to Ukraine, for trying to extract an announcement to hurt Joe Biden, and for trying to hide it all from Congress and the public.

While you are busy looking for a link to concrete evidence that General Prosecutor Shokin was corrupt, I am responding to your above statement.

The fundamental accusation against Trump was that his dealings with the Ukrainian President were intended to cause political trouble for Trump's political rival Biden. Trump wanted at least a Ukrainian announcement that Biden was being investigated. Furthermore, Trump wanted a Ukrainian investigation that would "dig up some dirt" against Biden.

Thus, Trump was using his own Presidential powers for his own political benefit. For example, Trump was using his power to grant White House visits and his power to delay or even cancel foreign aid.

My own perspective is that the Ukrainian bribing of the Biden family should have been investigated long ago -- already during the Obama Administration. Even though Trump is the US President, he cannot wave a magic wand and cause an effective investigation.

The US State Department -- in particular, the US Embassy in Kyiv -- will sabotage any investigation that President Trump orders.

DOJ/FBI -- just as it did with Hillary Clinton's e-mails -- will sabotage any investigation that President Trump orders.

The context of this situation is "The Resistance" or "The Deep State" or whatever you want to call the bureaucracy's persistent efforts to disobey, frustrate, undermine and remove President Trump.

The DOJ/FBI investigation of Clinton's e-mails was a bogus investigation. The DOJ/FBI investigation of Trump-Russia collusion likewise was a bogus investigation.

A State/DOJ/FBI investigation of the Ukrainian bribing of the Biden family would be just as bogus.

In these circumstances, Trump has done what he could -- which is to try to work around "The Resistance" (aka "The Deep State").

Trump told the Ukrainian President that Ukraine could re-open any investigations that former Vice President Biden had effectively closed. The Ukrainian President has not complained or objected against his interactions with President Trump.

This is not an optimal situation. President Trump should be able to work through proper channels in non-partisan institutions of the US Government. After he is re-elected, he might be able to govern normally in his second term.

Meanwhile, I do not see anything wrong with Trump's using the methods he has used to initiate investigations of Ukrainian bribing of the Biden family.

tim in vermont said...

George Conway, a name nobody would know absent the extraordinary accomplishments of his wife. He is exactly the kind of disloyal scum that would make Chuck feel better about himself.

tim in vermont said...

George Conway knows that everything he tweets is accorded unwarranted importance on account of the earned stature of his wife. He’s a “wife guy."

Chuck said...

Drago said...
I'll bet Chuck is composing that defense of McConnellas we speak.

Lefty ARM called McConnell a traitor in this very thread....I'll bet Chuck cant wait to jump on that!!

Any minute now....

I don't agree. But then again, I don't ever recall ARM insulting me or slandering me or making up so much ridiculous stuff about me, as you do on a daily, repetitive basis.

You guys get so bent out of shape over what I DON'T write, that you can't even accurately appraise what I DO write.

I have to give Trump credit for one very important thing. Trump understood how much hate there was in part of the country, for Obama, for the Clintons, for much of media, for intelligent culture. Even contempt for the GOP establishment. I would never have dreamed that a candidate could get away with being a Birther, a Truther and Vaxxer. But Trump did. Trump has a unique understanding of the darkest part of the American political id.

narciso said...

they can't quite explain it,

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/donald-trump-qassem-soleimani-iran-escalation/605053/

then again they thought Reagan would inevitably lead to world war 3, that's what the kremlin told ted kennedy, joe biden and leon pannetta, as well strobe Talbott and Sydney Blumenthal,

tim in vermont said...

"Trump understood how much hate there was in part of the country, for Obama, for the Clintons, for much of media, for intelligent culture.”

Ha ha ha ha ha!

tim in vermont said...

This post needs to be preserved before you have second thoughts, or manybe even first thoughts.

I don't agree. But then again, I don't ever recall ARM insulting me or slandering me or making up so much ridiculous stuff about me, as you do on a daily, repetitive basis.

You guys get so bent out of shape over what I DON'T write, that you can't even accurately appraise what I DO write.

I have to give Trump credit for one very important thing. Trump understood how much hate there was in part of the country, for Obama, for the Clintons, for much of media, for intelligent culture. Even contempt for the GOP establishment..
- Chuck

tim in vermont said...

Yes Chuck, the contempt for the GOP establishment is a mile deep, and you guys couldn’t get a Republican elected president against the a ticket of Al and Ted Bundy.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 1:53 PM
If there is a reasonable suspicion of ongoing serious corruption in Urkaine that affects U.S. interests or which involves U.S. citizens, should that be the subject of an investigation by the DoJ? A DoJ under AG Barr? Or the FBI, under Director Wray, who was nominated by Trump?

I think President Trump would fire FBI Director Wray if he could.

Trump must work with the officials who can get the votes of a 2/3 majority in the Senate.

Trump was very lucky that William Barr did get a 2/3 majority in the Senate. However, because Barr is trying to restore the non-partisan reputation of DOJ/FBI, Barr probably would not get any Democrat votes in the Senate now.

I trust Barr, but he cannot wave a magic wand. Barr will need much more time to restore the reputation of DOJ/FBI as a non-partisan institution.

------

The State Department -- in particular the US Embassy in Kyiv -- never will effectively investigate Ukrainian bribing of the Biden family. Never ever.

Browndog said...

Chuck said-

No, god damn it. You're not often this dense.

Trump is not being impeached for investigating the Bidens. He is being impeached for withholding the important defensive aid to Ukraine..


1. *Important

2. Aid was not withheld.

Browndog said...

Did you know the CEO of Barisma lived in exile because he was under investigation for corruption.

Any guesses when the investigation ended, allowing him to go back to Ukraine and pick up where he left off?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Feels ARMless around here.

[cluck cluck BAcluck!]

Still waiting.

[crickets]

narciso said...

vibranium is less dense than more Michigan marauder,


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/19/uk-troops-could-police-ceasefire-libya-conflict-says-boris-johnson/

and some people never get a clue, this is how you ended up with the Manchester bombing and the earlier London bridge incident

tim in vermont said...

"He is being impeached for withholding the important defensive aid to Ukraine..”

For certain unusual values of “withhold."

narciso said...

it ended formerly in September 2017, he returned the following spring,

narciso said...

around that time, another exiled parliamentary member released communication between the Ukrainian president and zylochevsky, now the big guy is much invulnerable, because of his political and legal connections,

narciso said...

so for those with a copy of the home game, they did no further investigations into burisma, for a year and a half,

Chuck said...

How many people are there out there, who subscribe to some form of Birtherism? Trump ran and ran with that one. At one point, he was making up shit in an interview with Meredith Viera about how he had sent his own investigators to Hawai'i and they could not believe what they were finding.

There was never the slightest bit of proof of any Trump investigators in Hawai'i, much less any evidence of what they found.

Trump ultimately backed off the whole thing.

There were about a half dozen distinct, clear occasions on which to laugh Trump out of the room in the sordid history of Birtherism. And yet for a certain minority of Americans, it doesn't seem to make any difference. They don't care. They don't care that he posed as "John Barron" and "John Miller" to talk to New York reporters about Mr. Trump and who Mr. Trump was dating and what might happen between Mr. Trump and Marla Maples Trump. Psychotic shit. Some people really seem to not care about it. Maybe they don't know about it, if their television sets never leave the Fox News Channel.


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Mike, your continued willingness to parade your ignorance of the impeachment process is not really my problem. Read the wiki that I copied and pasted for you. I am on your side buddy. I am trying to help.

tim in vermont said...

“I have to give Trump credit for one very important thing. Trump understood how much hate there was in part of the country, for Obama, for the Clintons, for much of media, for intelligent culture.” - Chuck

Is this something you didn’t write?

tim in vermont said...

Both ARM and Chuck have thrown up their hands and are a combination “rope-a-dope” and “squirrel!” stance.

narciso said...

lutsenko was a member of the maidan protest movement, who had been previously arrested by a corrupt official, who subsequently was arrested as well, he took the case all the way up to the European courts,

Chuck said...

Mike Sylvester; I want us both to understand that I never regard you as one of the rabid dogs here who personally attack me as often as they can.

You and I disagree, quite often, without being disagreeable.

So I want to tell you in a not-unfriendly way that Bill Barr's second confirmation as AG was NOT by a 2/3 majority, as the rules used to require. (Way to go, Democrats, for starting that inexcusable slide into pure partisanship). Senate rules have changed.

AG Barr's confirmation in early 2019 was 54-45 and was a near-party-line vote. It was not a 2/3 vote.

And had I been in the Senate at the time, I'd have voted "yes" on the Barr confirmation. And I'd now deeply regret that vote.

Mike Sylwester said...

Democrats in Congress, in the Judiciary and in the Bureaucracy have been trying to prevent Donald Trump from being the US President. They are trying to remove him from office.

This effort began with the RussiaGate hoax. We all were supposed to believe that Trump won the 2016 election because of secret help from Russian Intelligence, which bought Facebook ads that showed Jesus arm-wrestling Satan.

Then we all were supposed to believe that President Trump criminally obstructed that bogus RussiaGate nonsense.

Now we all are supposed to believe that the Ukrainian bribing of the Biden family may not be investigated. Also, we all are supposed to believe that Trump criminally obstructed this Ukraine nonsense.

Trump won the 2016 election, and he will win the 2020 election even more decisively.

The Democrats should give up their "Resistance" and should return to operating by normal political rules and standards. After all, Trump is the elected US President.

Drago said...

Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!!): "I don't agree. But then again, I don't ever recall ARM insulting me or slandering me or making up so much ridiculous stuff about me,..."

Lers see now, it took about what? 3 hours or so for LLR-lefty Chuck to utterly abandon his claim he would be happy to defend McConnell against lefty charges of being a russian asset traitor?

I actually thought it would take only 60 minutes or so for Chuck to abandon that transparently false pledge typical of his tenure here at Althouseblog.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
I don't agree. But then again, I don't ever recall ARM insulting me or slandering me or making up so much ridiculous stuff about me, as you do on a daily, repetitive basis.


I try not to insult anyone, I fail occasionally. I respect Chuck. He has endured endless vitriol for essentially restating GOP dogma of the last two decades. Dogma that every one of his critics also defended up until three years ago. Chuck has principles, the wrong principles, but principles just the same.

walter said...

Chuck, unable to address M Sylvester's points reverts to his old greatest hits.
If only Hillary had won...if only whoever the Dem is in 2020 wins.
All to conserve conservatism.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 2:47 PM
AG Barr's confirmation in early 2019 was 54-45 and was a near-party-line vote. It was not a 2/3 vote.

Thanks for your correction.

I learn from and appreciate your comments, and I am sure that many other readers do too.

Bruce Hayden said...

“If there is a reasonable suspicion of ongoing serious corruption in Urkaine that affects U.S. interests or which involves U.S. citizens, should that be the subject of an investigation by the DoJ? A DoJ under AG Barr? Or the FBI, under Director Wray, who was nominated by Trump?”

Because there has been active interference by the Deep State. FBI Director Wray was a bad choice, because he has actively been protecting the Deep State actors in his department from accountability. And the interference has been greatly abetted by the State Department and CIA. A number of the miscreants involved probably made up the bulk of the “witnesses” called by Schifty in his basement star chamber. Former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch apparently repeatedly refused visas to each and every Ukrainian whistleblower attempting to travel to the US to testify about the corruption. Of course, it shouldn’t be surprising that she actively was thwarting the investigation, since her old boss was John Kerry, whose stepson was involved in the corruption.

Original Mike said...

"And had I been in the Senate at the time, I'd have voted "yes" on the Barr confirmation. And I'd now deeply regret that vote."

What in the world did Barr do?

tim in vermont said...

"He has endured endless vitriol for essentially restating GOP dogma of the last two decades.”

Losing dogma.

"Dogma that every one of his critics also defended up until three years ago.”

When you are presented with new facts and evidence, do you change your mind or cover your eyes and stubbornly cling to disproven beliefs? I don’t believe that there was any time when I would have cheered on the Democrats in a three year tantrum caused by faked up evidence against a Republican president.

Drago said...

Aunty Trump: "Both ARM and Chuck have thrown up their hands and are a combination “rope-a-dope” and “squirrel!” stance."

This was expected as this moronic far left attempt to hijack the 2016 election will fail quite dramatically just like the others.

The question we should be asking ourselves is this: what are the next 2 or 3 hoax frameups the dems/LLR's will be launching?

I suspect at least 1 more will be launched prior to the election around July or August followed by another immediately after the election when LLR-lefty Chuck and his dem pals attempt to overturn Trumps re-election.

Drago said...

Original Mike: "What in the world did Barr do?"

He saw clearly what Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chucks marxist allies were up to and decided to fight back.l by not allowing Chuck's beloved dems to subvert the law in their quest to fundamentally transform the nation.

Like Trump, Barr stands in the way of LLR-lefty Chuck's socialist "paradise".

Thats what Barr did and why Chuck and his lefty allies want to destroy him.

Bruce Hayden said...

I should add that more and more, the Russian collaboration hoax appears to have originated and been orchestrated from the Ukraine next door to Russia. And that under Obama, in particular, there was massive skimming of American foreign aid, much of it ending up in the pockets of mostly Democrat, but also some Republican, politicians family. I think that if the final story ever comes out, we will see that a lot of both the Russian and Ukrainian scandals finally come out, it will involve a number of these politicians, as well as the Ukrainian politicians that they worked with, and who got their own slice of the pie.

Drago said...

ARM: "I respect Chuck."

Every single far left/marxist/socialist commenter does.

Peas in a pod.

Original Mike said...

Is it because Barr has appointed Durham to get to the bottom of the Russia hoax?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

What new information - exactly? That wars in the middle east rarely end well? That property bubbles eventually burst? That selling off your industrial base to a totalitarian empire may not be a great idea? That increased income equality doesn't produce increased economic output? What new information are you relying on?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Then name it. Stop pasting and write, you fool.

walter said...

Two deceptions at the heart of Democrats' impeachment brief

Chuck said...

Mike Sylwester said...
Chuck at 2:47 PM
AG Barr's confirmation in early 2019 was 54-45 and was a near-party-line vote. It was not a 2/3 vote.

Thanks for your correction.

I learn from and appreciate your comments, and I am sure that many other readers do too.

The Dems changed it in 2013. btw, with all this talk about impeachment convictions and a 2/3 majority, it was never a 2/3 majority to confirm nominees. It was a vote of 60 (on cloture) before the Dems under Harry Reid changed it. A bitter vote; even some Dems wouldn't go along with it. Mitch McConnell delivered a great speech in opposition, warning Dems that someday they'd be in the minority and wouldn't like it.

A really terrible legacy of the Obama/Reid/Dem majority years.


Drago said...

Original Mike: "Is it because Barr has appointed Durham to get to the bottom of the Russia hoax?"

That is certainly a big part of it.

Putting a stop to the Mueller/Weismann lawbreaking was the first big part of it.

It was at that point the dems/LLR's knew Barr really wouldn't go along with destroying the Constitution to return dems to complete power.

Remember, the very day after the 2016 election where the republicans took the White House, Senate (and court appointments) along with the House, Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck termed it a literal "disaster".

His word.

When the dems took the House in 2018 LLR-lefty Chuck was joyful and giddy, because of course he was.

Chuck becomes very irate when these quite revealing facts are recounted for one obvious reason: He is an astonishingly stupid liar whose psychoses has exposed who and what he really is.

narciso said...

meh


https://babalublog.com/2020/01/19/democrats-attempting-to-erase-in-florida-their-decades-long-history-of-defending-socialist-dictatorships/#comment-171044

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Mike, I am going to read it really slowly for you.

The
purposes
underlying
the
impeachment
process
also
indicate
that
non-criminal
activity
may
constitute
sufficient
grounds
for
impeachment.

The
premise
of
your
question
is
nonsense.

Michael K said...

Blogger Aunty Trump said...
Both ARM and Chuck have thrown up their hands and are a combination “rope-a-dope” and “squirrel!” stance.


Tag team. Has Inga shown up yet ? 300+ comments and no Inga?

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 2:39 PM
... for a certain minority of Americans, it doesn't seem to make any difference. They don't care. They don't care that he posed as "John Barron" and "John Miller" to talk to New York reporters about Mr. Trump and who Mr. Trump was dating and what might happen between Mr. Trump and Marla Maples Trump. Psychotic shit. Some people really seem to not care about it. Maybe they don't know about it, if their television sets never leave the Fox News Channel.

I agree with much of your criticism of Trump. I voted for Cruz rather than Trump in the NJ primary election, even though Trump essentially had won the nomination by then.

In various respects, Trump is a buffoon. However, I am happy that he is the President.

I do not like his foreign-trade policies, but he ran and won on that issue. He has at least four years to do these policies his way. So be it. Maybe he will turn out to be right.

I have come to enjoy Trump's buffoonery. I have been laughing almost every day.

In November, the electorate can vote him out of office, but I think he will win big. During his eight-year Presidency, he will save the US Constitution by re-making the Federal Judiciary.

His Presidency is the result of our country's collective wisdom.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
The Dems changed it in 2013.
A really terrible legacy of the Obama/Reid/Dem majority years.


I agree with Chuck.

tim in vermont said...

"What new information are you relying on?”

That it was possible to fight against all of those things you brought up, rather than just accept that the uniparty was in complete control of our destiny. That we had many allies in the fight who had been all but kicked out of the Democrat Party by the identity party zealots just there to be had. Trump is the light bringer. He showed that it was possible to beat a war monger like Hillary despite the 5X5 propaganda blasts from the mainstream media in supposed support of her.

buwaya said...

In the US today there is but a remnant of "intelligent culture", and what there is is not supported by the institutions owned and operated by the erstwhile intelligentsia.

Indeed, to the degree this culture still persists in pockets, it does so under intense politico-social persecution by the American left and all its owned institutions.

The corruption and decadence of "intelligent culture" is a major reason I am pessimistic about your country.

tim in vermont said...

In other words that you could defeat people like Chuck without selling out to people like Hillary.

Chuck said...

Drago said...
Original Mike: "Is it because Barr has appointed Durham to get to the bottom of the Russia hoax?"

That is certainly a big part of it.

Why hasn't Barr appointed a hotshot US Attorney or former US Attorney to get to the bottom of Hunter Biden and Burisma?

Oh wait. Trump did that. Rudy Giuliani. Rudy, and his three cellphones and his now-indicted gang of grifters.

Drago said...

ARM never fully recovered from the collapse of the russian hookers/pee tape lies the dems/LLR's fed him for almost 4 years.

During that entire time ARM would project a humorous confidence based on the lies fed to him.

ARM bought into every single Maddow cinspiracy that LLR-lefty Chuck embraced.

Once all of that collapsed and exposed ARM for the shmuck he is, his posting, like LLR-lefty Chuck, immediately became more angry and unhinged and conspiratorial, if that is even possible.

That's also when LLR-lefty Chuck's last sad little mask fell.

Original Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

ARM: "I agree with Chuck."

All dems/marxists/socialists do.

It's not revelatory.

tim in vermont said...

And defeat people like Hillary without selling out to people like Chuck.

Original Mike said...

"Why hasn't Barr appointed a hotshot US Attorney or former US Attorney to get to the bottom of Hunter Biden and Burisma?"

THAT'S your beef with Barr?

Drago said...

You know, I have to admit that I thought LLR-lefty Chuck would have at least attempted a small defense of McConnell against the russian asset/smear charges from lefties like Pelosi and ARM, if for ni other reason than to try and maintain the FakeConservative facade.

But nope.

I suppose all that work Chuck put in pretending to support Kavanaugh just wore him out completely so we wont be seeing a mendacious effort like that again.

tim in vermont said...

" his now-indicted gang of grifters.”

Did you approve of the indictment of Rick Perry? Ted Stevens? You know that this is all abuse of prosecutorial powers coupled with distorted reporting by the MSM?

“The best way to keep an opponent from badmouthing you is to keep your fist in his mouth.” - Bill Clinton

And here is Chuck cheering on the banana republic tactics, Chuck is a “banana republican."

tim in vermont said...

What about the abuse of prosecutorial powers in the persecution of Scott Walker?

Drago said...

Aunty Trump: "And here is Chuck cheering on the banana republic tactics, Chuck is a “banana republican."

Nope.

Chuck is an operational leftist completely aligned with the dems.

What he labels himself is utterly irrelevant.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Aunty Trump said...
That it was possible to fight against all of those things you brought up, rather than just accept that the uniparty was in complete control of our destiny.


Then why not vote for Bernie Sanders? Sanders has been a much more consistent and prolonged critic of the uniparty than Trump. Trump has always been a weak president but now he is so beholden to McConnell that any possibility of real change is completely gone. Sanders, for his many faults, would not have succumbed to the uni-party so quickly or so completely. What happened to ending the middle east wars, reducing the deficit, greater than 3% GDP? The wall? Nothing happened. That's what happened. Nothing.

Chuck said...

Original Mike said...
"Why hasn't Barr appointed a hotshot US Attorney or former US Attorney to get to the bottom of Hunter Biden and Burisma?"

THAT'S your beef with Barr?


No; that is not a beef that I have with Barr. It is the mark of how insincere TrumpWorld is, about any supposed corruption in Ukraine. No one in TrumpWorld gives a flying fuck about corruption in Ukraine, apart from it serving as a possible Trump alibi.

Trump certainly doesn't care about corruption in Ukraine. He's not done a thing since his pressure campaign on Zelensky got exposed.

Birkel said...

LLRacistF just cannot appreciate how many people prefer to judge people on their performance.
#SAD

narciso said...

and they went after general Flynn, because he had cast doubt on afghan policy, in secret discussions along with the rise of Salafism in north Africa, and Syria, in fact he wrote the memo of the Syrian state, where nusra front and Islamic state,

tim in vermont said...

"Then why not vote for Bernie Sanders? “

I have said in these pages many times that I would have, were that the choice in ’16. But Trump is walking the walk, and Sanders is being forced and has been forced to repudiate many of his cross party appeal positions by the litmus testers in the primaries.

tim in vermont said...

"He's not done a thing since his pressure campaign on Zelensky got exposed.”

“The best way to keep your opponent from badmouthing you is to keep a fist in his mouth.” - Bill Clinton.

Chuck said...

Aunty Trump said...
What about the abuse of prosecutorial powers in the persecution of Scott Walker?


Now that is something that you can look up for yourself. Search the blog's archives however you want; by date, by name, by topic, by Althouse tag; all of them.

Because I was one of Althouse's ardent defenders of Walker (and the Republicans on the Wisconsin Supreme Court). I recall specifically writing and asking Althouse how such a law as the Wisconsin "John Doe" law could possibly exist and survive judicial review.

Ah, the good old days of Althouse.

Original Mike said...

"No; that is not a beef that I have with Barr."

So you've said what it's not, but not what it is.

LA_Bob said...

buwaya said, "Law is the spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine of an arbitrary exercise of power go down."

Wonderful, wonderful metaphor. And I am old enough to recall the movie and the song to which the metaphor refers.

Wikipedia tells the story thusly,

"Julie Andrews was not yet committed for the part of Mary Poppins. She did not like the song that was written for her, believing it did not have enough snap to it. The original song was called "The Eyes of Love". Walt Disney instructed the Sherman Brothers to come up with something more catchy. Robert Sherman, the primary lyricist of the duo, arrived home from work one evening, having worked all day trying to come up with a song idea. As he walked in the door, his wife, Joyce, informed him that the children had gotten their polio vaccine that day. Robert asked one of his children if it hurt (thinking the child had received a shot). The child responded that the medicine was put on a cube of sugar and that he swallowed it. Realizing what he had, Robert Sherman arrived at work early the next morning with the title of the song "A Spoonful of Sugar Helps the Medicine Go Down". Sherman suggested the lyric to his brother, Richard, who was at first dismissive but slowly came around. At his brother's behest, Richard put melody to the lyric, and with that, the song was born."

At the intersection of Polio and Power! Only buwaya could do that!

buwaya's comment should appear in the introduction to Three Felonies a Day.

tim in vermont said...

ARM is right though that the whole fucking Senate is compromised by graft and Trump can’t get a completely fair shake there. Even though that’s not how he would put it.

tim in vermont said...

"Because I was one of Althouse's ardent defenders of Walker”

But now you take the words of partisan prosecutors like SDNY unquestioningly.

buwaya said...

You have a banana republic-style power struggle because for decades you have been turning into a banana republic, the biggest banana republic in the world.

This is because your elite has collapsed into decadence and indiscipline, and entirely lost its virtue. And that virtue among the elite is the only thing that keeps a banana republic away. It isnt "law", or any words on paper.

As for any point in supporting your elite - their virtue is already lost, they are hollow, and there is no way to fix them, they are not worthy of any honest mans loyalty. They have lost the mandate of heaven. It only remains to push over the rotten structures they infest, and replace both structures and people. This will however be traumatic.

Drago said...

Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!): "No; that is not a beef that I have with Barr. It is the mark of how insincere TrumpWorld is, about any supposed corruption in Ukraine. No one in TrumpWorld gives a flying fuck about corruption in Ukraine, apart from it serving as a possible Trump alibi."

You know you are approaching the complete collapse of the latest lefty/LLR-lefty hoax when they all revert to mindreading and thoughtcrimes.

And that, ladies and gents, is precisely where we are today, aren't we?

And just think, just 72 hours ago the dems/LLR-lefties pulled out their biggest "guns" with the hilariously wrong and exposed GAO lie-ploy and the now fully collapsed Parnas/Avenatti-Swetnick lie-ploy!

Looks like Chuck and his pals will simply have to content themselves with the hoax charge of "Coverup!!" when this dog gets kicked to the curb.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I am pretty comfortable with the idea that the whole fucking senate is compromised by graft.

tim in vermont said...

"they are not worthy of any honest mans loyalty.”

Hear hear!

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