From "'You’re a bunch of dopes and babies’: Inside Trump’s stunning tirade against generals" (WaPo)(adapted from the new book "A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump’s Testing of America")(describing a meeting that took place July 20, 2017).
Ironically, it makes the people Trump called "dopes and babies" look like dopes and babies.
Why should their feelings be coddled?
The "sacred space" was "the Tank" at the Pentagon:
2E924 of the Pentagon, a windowless and secure vault where the Joint Chiefs of Staff meet regularly.... The Tank resembles a small corporate boardroom, with a gleaming golden oak table, leather swivel armchairs and other mid-century stylings. Inside its walls, flag officers observe a reverence and decorum for the wrenching decisions that have been made there.Trump brought his own boardroom style. He got elected offering that. I see no reason why he should be expected to change to a style of "reverence and decorum" because that's what others in the room are used to and feel comfortable with. Why should those people be facilitated in their comfort and established old ways? During the Vietnam War era, we would have reacted with derision at expectations like that.
Here's an article (from January 2019) quoting Trump about The Tank:
"When I became President, I had a meeting at the Pentagon with lots of generals. They were like from a movie. Better looking than Tom Cruise and stronger. And I had more generals than I've ever seen, and we were at the bottom of this incredible room. I said 'this is greatest room I've ever seen.' I saw more computer boards than I think that they make today."ADDED: Derision and contempt.
IN THE COMMENTS: Ken B wrote:
From Fodor, Top 10 American Sacred Spaces
1 Gettysburg
2 Arlington Cemetery
3 That cool windowless room with all the monitors
4 Bunker Hill
5 Nancy Pelosi's Closet
6 Ford's Theater
7 Nancy Pelosi's Other Closet
8 The Washington Monument
9 Faneuil Hall
10 Fort Sumter
Posts
258 comments:
1 – 200 of 258 Newer› Newest»'What would our worst adversaries think if they knew he said this?'
Good thing you let our worst adversaries know about it in a tell all book.
Dopes and babies indeed.
Standing in the hall with a small cluster of people he trusted, Tillerson finally let down his guard. 'He’s a f---ing moron'
So did Tillerson authorize this to be reported, or was he a dope for trusting that small cluster of people?
Looks like he wasn't wrong....again.
How could the generals not know Trump’s boardroom style?
I never watched The Apprentice and I even know “You’re Fired!”
And if it’s true that the Iraqi Embassy calmed for help and a General said we’ll get them there tomorrow....
DOPE.
That general learned nothing.
They have leakers, too.
Called for help.
If what Trump said to and about the generals was so bad, why has the Post and its sources got to strain so hard to pretend that he was saying it about enlisted men in the field?
Ironically, it makes the people Trump called "dopes and babies" look like dopes and babies.
My first thought as well.
Given everything I have read about Jim Mattis, if he wasn't responding to Trump, it has to be because he knew, deep down inside, that Trump was right.
As to the admirals in the room, since 2012 the US Navy has had not one but three destroyers, among the most nimble warships in the fleet, collide with slow moving merchant vessels. Yeah, there's something wrong there with basic Navy seamanship.
Hmmm, I was just listening to the book "Holding the Line" by Mattis's speechwriter. He talks about this meeting, but never mentioned anything like this. And the speechwriter is definitely no fan of Trump.
Oh no! Someone called top-brass a bunch of babies that (gasp) may not actually know what they're talking about! Outrage! Hiss!
Somebody call a waaaaahmbulance!
Another 'get Trump' attempt, that will backfire to his advantage?
Insurance defense lawyers have a saying, "We like when are clients are sued."
The Pentagon likes to have enemies and bases all over the world. The Islamist idiots in Iraq have to have Americans to attack. That's what they do.
I agree with Trump's method. Crush ISIS and then move on.
When we go to war, use full measures. Less strict rules of engagement. Beat them so badly that the enemy will know it is defeated.
If Iran steps out of line again, blow their nuke infrastructure to bits.
The Washington Post takes the side of Generals and Admirals.
Nope.
Just checked outside my window.
Didn't see any winged-pigs.
Hell must've frozen over but I can't check that with my MK1 eyeballs.
I wish there was more context for this incident. Clearly, Tillerson is the source.
Any flag officer promoted under President Obama was, at best, a dope and / or baby.
Most of them were corrupt, amoral weasels how had spent the last 8+ years screwing over the troops to suck up to the Left.
So, good for Trump for letting them know that their "glorious service as chairborne Rangers" didn't impress him.
Because it shouldn't.
The fact that President Trump doesn't accept the "technocratic meritocracy's" claims of self greatness, is Trump's best feature
A leftist rag calling a war room "a sacred space?"
What can't TDS do?
Who's the one in charge of the meeting? The Generals or the President?
Another story of the "How Dare He!" variety.
After 3 years you would think that they would get it. He's not like other Presidents before him. That's a feature not a bug.
Ann, I respectfully request a "How Dare He" tag for articles like this. Once you start applying that filter to news articles like this you can't stop. They are all that way.
It fits with their loss at how Hillary didn't win. That is the root "How Dare He" moment. How Dare He beat Hillary. He was supposed to lose.
From Fodor, Top 10 American Sacred Spaces
1 Gettysburg
2 Arlington Cemetery
3 That cool windowless room with all the monitors
4 Bunker Hill
5 Nancy Pelosi's Closet
6 Ford's Theater
7 Nancy Pelosi's Other Closet
8 The Washington Monument
9 Faneuil Hall
10 Fort Sumter
“ Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Joseph F. Dunford Jr. sat in the seat of honor midway down the table, because this was his room...”
Um, the President of the United States was there. The Commander in Chief. It was the President’s room, not General Dunford’s room.
A pep talk that led to the defeat of ISIS.
We must show respect for the wrenching decisions that have lost so many wars over the last 20 years
Buck Turgidson smiles.
Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here this is the war room.
Didn’t two navy ships collide not long ago? Didn’t the navy have to rebuild a partly built ship after systems failed?
Didn’t two navy ships collide not long ago? Didn’t the navy have to rebuild a partly built ship after systems failed?
The President of the United States, as Commander-in-Chief, has the sole right to chew these guys out. How many of the people in that room were there because of Friends in Congress?
Of course this didn't happen. If Trump had called out a room full of flag officers and everyone present hadn't resigned as a unit, he'd be outing them as milk-sop little bitches who fully deserve his scorn. If anything, the story makes President Trump look like more of a baller. These perfumed princes couldn't possibly stand up to him, so all they can do is flap their wrists and moan about how mean it was.
They might eventually make a deep stater that could face down Trump, but given that he'd slap the latke out of the mouth of a Lt. Col. Whineman, I doubt it.
Ironically, it makes the people Trump called "dopes and babies" look like dopes and babies.
You nailed it Althouse.
I suspect that this story will play well with enlisted soldiers.
My cousin is a retired Marine mid-level officer. He put in his 20 and got out because he could not stand the politics.
He is also a big Trump supporter and would have liked to say what Trump is reported to have said.
I seem to recall President Kennedy saying something along the same line about Curtis LeMay as Tillerson's complaint against Trump. That didn't seem to bother the Post. That and since when does the Post care about decorum involving top US military brass? Oh, yeah, starting JAn. 20, 2017.
Everyone from major on down knows the generals are dopes and babies. But they kissed the right asses.
Anyone impressed with Petraeus? He was sold as some warrior genius. Guy got arrested for handing out classified info to his girlfriend.
McCrystal got fired for trashing Obama to Rolling Stone magazine. Then he writes some pearl clutching essay about how he took down a portrait of Robert E Lee like some woke high school sophomore.
The Best and the Brightest
Fuck these guys.
As soon as Trump nominated Tillerson, I thought "why the hell that guy? Why not someone who supported Trump during the campaign?". Too bad I wasn't consulted.
I question the veracity. Nobly seems to want to talk on the record.
Tillerson is no longer in the govt. He could talk
Mattis, of Theranos shame, is retired, he could talk
But it seems like the best the author can do is anonymous sources.
Kind of like the "Shithole" comment.
I call bullshit on the dopes and babies. I don't call bullshit on PDJT telling the brass that he was not happy with their performance and giving them a good and well deserved ass chewing.
John Henry
Anyone know how many generals were fired in WWII? They were replaced by more competent, lower level officers. Look at Omar Bradley's rise. Peacetime generals are often not the ones you want to go to war with.
No mention of any specific complaints Trump made just before this? I bet they were pertinent.
I wonder how many of these flag officers have called their subordinates much worse names. Grow up, you babies.
The generals had to be treated for "symptoms of concussion"?
Re destroyers, yeah. How do we get so many collisions? A couple reasons in that cases were CIC and Bridge not talking to each other because of some personal feud. Equipment not working. Lack of training. Lack of seamanship (and seawomanship) and so on.
Or look at the DDG-1000 program? About 8 years late. The ship has no gun. A destroyer that can't even destroyer a Columbian drugrunner. It was supposed to have a 6.1" deck gun and they developed it. The gun is ready to go but the ammo is too expensive so they never developed it. A nice, expensive, decoration.
Or the Fat Leonard scandal.
Lots and lots of stuff that is directly the fault of the top brass and failure of leadership.
John Henry
Buck Turgidson smiles.
"Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here this is the war room."
Ken B for the win!
Trump was picturing them in their underwear.
'I wouldn’t go to war with you people,' Trump told the assembled brass.... You’re a bunch of dopes and babies.'
You know; frequently, i think that i've had about Enough i can Handle of Trump...
THEN,
he says something like this and i realize that my love and admiration for him is JUST GETTING STARTED!
Most Bestest President EVER!!
Just more hypocrisy. I can see right leaning media defending the generals if it was BO who said this - in which case WaPo would defend the President's right to verbally demean his subordinates. The most pathetic thing is "journolists" can't seem to grasp that reporting this type of stuff is gossip - not news.
While I think this story is likely a fabrication, too, it does actually sound like something Trump might say. And if he did say it, then good on him- I wouldn't go to war with them either.
If Abe had said something like this to McClellan in '62; he just might have MADE Something of the little shit
Mattis IS a dope though, falling for that Theranos scam.
Thinking they'd implement it on the battle field!
Given their recent track record, there is little support to lend to the notion that these Brass are nondopes and nonbabies.
Matt: "I wonder how many of these flag officers have called their subordinates much worse names. Grow up, you babies."
Indeed.
The "best" chewing out I ever received was from a 2-star who went off on a group of about 40 of us who "had difficulty finding the helo's" that were provided to transport us back to the carrier after flying our aircraft off the carrier to make room for required maintenance.
Instead we found ourselves at a very popular British officers club in the Middle East where we spent the entire night "liaisoning" with our British counterparts. We later woke up after sleeping it off on the tarmac when a second sortie of helos appeared to retrieve us.
We were in hack for an entire week......but they forgot to thoroughly search us when we returned....so needless to say we had many a merry poker games during that week.
I got more spittle launched into my face during that chewing out than a lifetime of football and rugby practices.
And, of course, Althouse nails it- the description in the story proves that Trump was right...if he really said it.
Oh yeah, our armed forces and especially flag officers are renowned for their “reverence and decorum" and literally everyone knows the old saying “that sailor was swearing like a housewife!” right?
after 18 years, its hard to see how these 'parade generals' have much to show for it, they are somewhat like general McKenzie (who is fictitious) in 1917, but they have few clues, general Flynn's defenestration may have been done in part to his expressed doubts about the conduct of the war,
I'm reminded of 'the wolfs' who is based on a fellow who heads the iran task force, similar dressing down to the member of the bin laden tracking unit in zd 30, when they were in slump,
as another book by peter Bergen points out, the enlisted men, are more on trump's side of the argument, since they have skin in the game, than these generals who are apart from the main front,
This is one of those stories and books that demonstrates how out of touch the anti-Trump brigade is with common people. They really believe that a story of Trump dressing down generals and admirals in a staff meeting will somehow weaken Trump. It will only strengthen his support- any fucking fool with an IQ above body temperature should understand this, but these people clearly don't.
If you enjoy reading Civil War history (and I do) you learn that Lincoln had a real problem with the generals in the Army of The Potomac. He went through a lot of them who either wouldn't fight, didn't know how to lead, or were early versions of todays Perfumed Princes of The Pentagon. A successful general (or admiral) does need to be a bit of a politician. But he or she can't be entirely political.
And if Trump looks at all of these star spangled shoulders in the "Sanctum" and says, "I wouldn't go to war with you", he's got every right to do so as Commander in Chief.
In the Civil War and in WW II generals and admirals got fired by the bushel basketful. Our problems in Viet Nam were exacerbated by the fact that General Westmoreland (who should have been booted) successfully blew smoke up McNamara and Johnson's skirts.
The President of the United States is the head dude in charge of the military, and he (or she) needs to remember that fact. Lincoln knew it. FDR learned it.
"Ironically, it makes the people Trump called "dopes and babies" look like dopes and babies."
But the irony is lost on the officers and the leakers.
"Why should their feelings be coddled?"
Right. Why? What great things have they accomplished recently? In Afghanistan? In Libya? In . . .?
"During the Vietnam War era, we would have reacted with derision at expectations like that."
Right. So now that Trump is treating the FBI, CIA , and coddled brass the way the left has always wanted them to be treated, they support Trump, correct?
Anyway, I don't think all officers are "dopes," nor should Trump talk to them that way. But I suspect he got the message across: you are not working for Obama anymore.
I do not understand this:
... Ironically, it makes the people Trump called "dopes and babies" look like dopes and babies...
The assembled military general staff are under a chain of command. It is not their place to tell the Commander in Chief that he is full of shit, even when he is full of shit.
So Rex Tillerson -- a great leader, a better businessman than Trump, and not within the chain of command, spoke up. As he should have.
You've tried out some weird, pro-Trump contrariness on these pages, Althouse. But your siding with Trump on this is a new record. I'm not even so sure that Trump's name-calling his general staff is even the big story. The bigger story, that you are seemingly ignoring, is Trump's inability to stay on-topic in such a meeting, along with his generally reckless and undisciplined talk. You've remarked about what an essentially transparent figure Trump is as president. He is so uncoached and unscripted, we really do see what is going on in his head. I think you are right about all of that. We can see what is going on in Trump's head, and it is horrifying.
Supposedly Trump: 'I wouldn’t go to war with you people,' Trump told the assembled brass.... You’re a bunch of dopes and babies.'
Obama had 8 full years to turn the military into his little PC/Fully Woke training and proving ground and that's exactly what he did.
Actual warfighters have been complaining about obama's military leadership team for years. Trump easily recognized early on that he had a team of obama holdovers who care about sucking up to the dems more than protecting their troops from those dems.
This helps to explain the reports of all the meetings Trump had in the White House with large numbers of enlisted combat veterans ONLY, no officers allowed. Trump knows how to get the real "gouge" on what is going on from the frontline troops.
This is a practice Trump has long employed in his business dealings where he spent lots of time talking to doormen and cooks and superintendents and hard hats etc.
Which is very Reaganesque actually, as Reagan spent 10 years as the host of GE Theater which required Reagan to visit every major GE production/manufacturing facility and give speeches to the workers there while filming the show. Reagan spent thousands of hours rubbing elbows with people on the front lines all over the country.
No better way to get your finger on the pulse of the people.
So would you please show us, on this doll, where President Trump hurt you?
the romans had a similar problem, in the jugurthan war, two previous consuls had failed to bring the prince of numantia, to heel, including a metelli, it took a commoner named marius, but this engagement has gone on much longer than that war, it's more like the multiple confrontations with mithridates, which spanned some 40 years,
narciso said...
as another book by peter Bergen points out, the enlisted men, are more on trump's side of the argument, since they have skin in the game, than these generals who are apart from the main front,
As we have been over in other recent comments, that is no longer true per polling in late 2019. Current enlisted service members' approval of the president is now under water, with their numbers closely approximating the American public at large.
Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!): "The assembled military general staff are under a chain of command. It is not their place to tell the Commander in Chief that he is full of shit, even when he is full of shit."
LOLOLOLOLOL
Obama promoted officers who were the ultimate suckup "yes men" and got rid of anyone, anywhere, who disagreed with him and lefty policies.
LLR-lefty Chuck knows even LESS about military staffing philosophy and history than he does about electoral politics (so that's saying something!!).
The troops absolutely adore Trump. They know he won't put up with crap from the henchmen obama put in place, which is why even MORE of them will vote for Trump this November...which is why you despise them so.
And that's good. Because LLR-lefty Chuck is the PERFECT gauge for whether or not Trump is doing something great for the country:
LLR-lefty Chuck Axiom: If Chuck hates it, it is by definition good for the United States of America.
Period.
This is fiction writing:
“A few considered walking out. [did they? You know this how?] They tried not to reveal their revulsion on their faces, but questions raced through their minds. 'How does the commander in chief say that?' one thought. 'What would our worst adversaries think if they knew he said this?'... [so now you’re mind readers? You can hear their thoughts?]. Tillerson in particular was stunned by Trump’s diatribe and began visibly seething. For too many minutes, others in the room noticed, he had been staring straight, dumbfounded, at Mattis, who was speechless, his head bowed down toward the table. Tillerson thought to himself [well if he thought it to himself... how do you know?]. , 'Gosh darn it, Jim, say something. Why aren’t you saying something?'...
I don’t believe any of this stuff.
McMaster who was technically outside of the chain of command, might have appreciated the lesson from his own book on the joint chiefs unwillingness to challenge lbj, we want an expeditionary force that is present, but when they are drawn into the fight, the likes of senior chief Gallagher sgt dorrance major goldsteyn are abandoned on the battlefield,
If these high-ranking buffoons don't like Trump, they should sign on with Li'l Rocket Man. I hear he has the utmost reverence for his military leaders.
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Joseph F. Dunford Jr. sat in the seat of honor midway down the table, because this was his room...”
that sentence sums up the deep state better than any i've read.
Bureaucrats, sitting at polished oak tables, thinking:"How DARE he!! This is MY room!"
Want Proof that This shows the shittiness of the deep state?
There's a commentator here, that feels that this post is "a new record"
know how you're over the target?
Chuck drops his mask, and lashes out at Our Beloved Professor Althouse
Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck: "As we have been over in other recent comments, that is no longer true per polling in late 2019."
LOLOLOL
Chuck is STILL trying to run with the decades long discredited Gannett-owned Military Times fake polls which every military member knows is a lie.
Gannett (USA Today) purchased Military Times in 1997 and immediately turned it into another of LLR-lefty Chuck's beloved lefty rags. Immediately after Gannett purchased Military Times its editorials and polling went way way way left.
And every single election since then the Military Times comes up with BS polls showing the dems "closing in" on the republicans....which never materializes.
You can go back to the elections of 2000 (Gore closes in on Bush for military support!!) to 2004 (Kerry closes in on Bush for military support) to 2008 (obama takes the lead over McCain for military support!) to 2012 (obama closes in on Romney for military support) to 2016 (Hillary closes in on Trump for military support)........and 2020 is already proving no different even after Gannett sold Military Times to another lefty group on the West Coast.
LLR-lefty Chuck continues his non-stop serial lying in support of far left media outlets as he has done for over 4 straight years now.
I was outside a room where a 3 star general made a 1 star general stand at attention while he chewed his ass for something, not anywhere near illegal or morally wrong, one junior enlisted soldier in his unit was seen doing in a base camp in Korea. I witnessed the soldier in action. This was during a training exercise in 1987.
So, whatever. Generals getting their asses chewed and expecting to get chewed if they displease the CINC should be normal.
And yea, a lefty rag sticking up for baby killers and war monger to attack Trump is just more proof that TDS makes Trumps opponents incoherent.
This is why Trump is so popular in the Armed forces with the vast majority of the actual soldiers.
Everyone enlisted knew something changed in 2009. And that change came from the top down.
Obama installed a cadre of traitors and democrat toady scum into the flag ranks. One of the primary reasons I got out was it became clear our leadership was doing everything it could to lose in Afghanistan and get us killed.
They were not even being subtle about it.
John henry said...
I question the veracity. Nobly seems to want to talk on the record.
Tillerson is no longer in the govt. He could talk
Mattis, of Theranos shame, is retired, he could talk
But it seems like the best the author can do is anonymous sources.
Kind of like the "Shithole" comment.
I call bullshit on the dopes and babies. I don't call bullshit on PDJT telling the brass that he was not happy with their performance and giving them a good and well deserved ass chewing.
Yes indeed. Thanks for bringing up the "shithole countries" example. This is more of the same, just from reading this comments page.
With half of the Trumpkins claiming that it is fake news, with only "anonymous sources." They don't believe that Trump said it.
And the other half of the Trumpkins thinking what a great thing it is, that Trump said it.
That is the gap in TrumpWorld. Either he said it or he didn't. Decide. Get the White House to confirm it or deny it. And if the White House denies it, then keep digging into the eyewitnesses to the event.
Ol' Bone Spurs has got a lot more battles to fight.
Current enlisted service members' approval of the president is now under water
link please?
saying doesn't make it so
it's really poor fiction, too overheated for colleen McDonough, keeping with the roman motif, too see this engagement through one has to confront the bastions which are not only in quetta and Peshawar, but the madrassas, Afghanistan is the Italian theatre in this metaphor, if we're going by world war metaphors, also ultimately the headquarters of global Salafism rests in doha, and that pesky 'interagency consensus' didn't want any interference there,
Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!): "Current enlisted service members' approval of the president is now under water, with their numbers closely approximating the American public at large."
Lefty lies on top of lefty lies.
The talking points are always the same and never deviate.
Ever.
There's a reason people at the point of the spear refer to people in the Pentagon at the top of the leadership structure as "perfumed princes".
I'd say it looks like Trump has their number.
What Trump did is considered unprofessional. In the fantasy world of Trump's deplorables, he is just vocalizing they're pathetic internal monologue that they are afraid to say in the real world. Trump gives a voice to the frustration of Cucks who become even louder and more enthusiastic cheerleaders. Rah rah sis-boom-bah
Chuck, the clown nose is becoming on you.
Chuck said...
As we have been over in other recent comments, that is no longer true per polling in late 2019. Current enlisted service members' approval of the president is now under water, with their numbers closely approximating the American public at large.
Nobody believes you or your hack Gannet propaganda.
Democrats and neocon republicans are loathed by the average enlisted.
We despise you Chuck.
We know the feeling is mutual.
Blah bah Howard. You're clueless. Getting an asschewing by the boss is commonplace in the Military.
If this happened as reported, a honorable flag officer would be expected to resign rather than serve under a "moron".
How many of them resigned shortly thereafter? I'm guessing almost but not quite one.
as general Petraeus used to ask 'where does it end' his policy directives were shortcircuited by biden's crack crew of advisors, who thought seemingly indiscriminate bombing of the country side, would endear us to the tribes in the NorthWest Frontier, a more selective counterinsurgency strategy might have worked as it did up to a point in Algeria, as it succeeded to a greater degree in Malaysia, but that was quickly cancelled,
I’ve never been so insulted in my life.
You should get out more.
The I can call everyone else names, but how dare you call me a name.
You made me feel like I was back in boot camp!
It’s not like he called them deplorable.
But they’re bitter clingers clinging to their stars.
Is being insulted by your superiors really a novel thing in the military? I mean, turn the generals into privates and the Commander-in-Chief into a drill sergeant and you've got pretty much every service movie ever.
Dopes and babies indeed.
Babies......The Generals and Brass getting all butt-hurt because someone wasn't groveling at their feet. Didn't they ever go through basic training...come up through the ranks? Or were they born with stars on their shoulders? Elites and above the common fray? How DARE Trump treat them as if they are his employees and under his authority /s
Dopes....They took it personally and then went whining about it to the world. Now everyone knows.
They wouldn't last an hour in a New York advertising firm sales quota meeting. There are no punches pulled. You don't pull your weight and everyone knows it. Try working for a brokerage house and being a prima donna when the regional manager shows up to ream your office for not performing.
I can't quite imagine what I would say to the people running The us military who are being beaten by a bunch of inbred goat herders.
cacimbo said...
The most pathetic thing is "journolists" can't seem to grasp that reporting this type of stuff is gossip - not news.
1/17/20, 11:00 AM
These days, what does the news ever report that isn't only or mostly gossip?
"So Rex Tillerson -- a great leader, a better businessman than Trump, and not within the chain of command, spoke up. As he should have."
Actually no. Tillerson like Mattis and Kelly showed Trump to be 100 percent correct. Tillerson never seemed to accept the idea that he was working for Trump - and that he hadn't been elected to anything. If you go back and read, you'll find almost no in the State Department respected Tillerson. The guy had his own agenda, and made plenty of enemies on his own. These Generals/Admirals, many of them promoted by Obama, didn't seem to understand the concept of being subordinate to higher authority.
The most shocking thing to me, was the Generals/Admirals protesting Trump excluding Transexuals from the military. "We can't run the military without those Transgenders", they said. Think about that. We can't run the military without some guys who think they're girls. In other words, Klinger from MASH! Only now instead of being section 8, transgenders are now the most valuable members of the Army and Navy! Absurd.
My thought experiment for the day is imagining what Rush Limbaugh would say, if Barack Obama or Joe Biden had been called out for telling general staff of the U.S. armed forces that they were "dopes and babies."
it is the system they are a part of, which has not demanded results and hasn't provided the resources, the brits went through three full scale wars, and some 60 expedition, the veterans of some of these engagements became the staff officer on the western front, mean like gough and haig all the way to kitchener,
There needs to be happy mean between Generals/Admirals being sycophants and saying "Yes Sir" to every crazy Presidential order - like they acted under LBJ and FDR. And being "babies" and drama queens - like they've acted under Trump.
This is how conservatives respect career service to the nation? As an ex-draftee, I've dissed officers myself, but this is not what leadership does.
What's even more astounding is the low stakes involved. "Oh no,we can't leave our 12 year no-win war in Afghanistan. The USA will perish!". Or "Oh no, we can't leave Northern Syria, think of the consequences!"
Ridiculous.
John henry said...
Re destroyers, yeah. How do we get so many collisions? A couple reasons in that cases were CIC and Bridge not talking to each other because of some personal feud between women. The same thing that led to the total loss of the Norwegian frigate HNoMS Helge Ingstad. Seems there's a difference between men and women. Women can't put their personal feelings aside when dealing with professional matters.
As for the survey done by the Military Times that Chuck places so much reliance on, I don't know any retired or active duty enlisted or junior officer, or ROTC cadet, who believes it. They (and I) certainly don't know many anti-Trumpers among their military friends and acquaintances.
THIS IS THE GREATEST THING I HAVE EVERY READ
TRUMP SHOULD BE EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE FOR LIFE!!!
THEY ARE BABIES AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WINNING IS
Bill Harshaw: "This is how conservatives respect career service to the nation?"
Many of obamas flag officers were happy to throw their troops into obamas PC hellscape and end careers all to get that next star.
Respect goes both ways and if you cant understand that I cant explain it to you.
And if you want a case study in how obama treated career service officers, look no further than the framing of highly decorated 33 year Marine Gen Michael Flynn.
Gough was the son and grandson of veterans of the Indian engagements, his big debut was in the Boer Wars, probably the next big mistake to World War One,
Tell all books written by people I’ve never heard of!
Yes, I see the dangling preposition. Consider it performance art. Coveffe!
Needs a "Hitler finds out his generals are a bunch of dopes and babies" vid.
Howard said...
What Trump did is considered unprofessional. In the fantasy world of Trump's deplorables, he is just vocalizing they're pathetic internal monologue that they are afraid to say in the real world. Trump gives a voice to the frustration of Cucks who become even louder and more enthusiastic cheerleaders. Rah rah sis-boom-bah
1/17/20, 11:25 AM
Howie, it is management 101 that you praise in public, berate in private. This was a private meeting where he not only has the right but is expected to say "his" (to quote the left) truth. If he does not feel free to tell them what he actually feels/believes what the hell is he doing there? HE is their boss! They work for him and he works for us. That was not a collage snowflake feelz room. It was a room full of men that manage trained killers. If they can't take that talk from their boss they are the babies he said they are.
I'd like to tag the phrase "computer boards" with our Trump Dementia Syndrome (TDS) tag. We sort of have to guess if Trump was talking about monitors; what else could it be? But it's like talking to your 93 year-old grandfather. Who lived a lifetime without computers or monitors, and never much used either one. That's Trump. A 73 year-old, with the mind of a 93 year-old. Yes, grandpa; "computer boards." We call those things "monitors" now... Would you like to watch "Matlock"? We can get it for you on one of the other computer boards.
What's really funny is now the Liberals and D's, pretend to love the Military and be shocked, shocked, I tell you that, that a President would DARE to talk to our beloved Military leaders without the right amount of respect.
Trump has now gotten liberals to love the FBI and The Military. Hilarious.
'My thought experiment for the day is imagining what Rush Limbaugh would say, if Barack Obama or Joe Biden had been called out for telling general staff of the U.S. armed forces that they were "dopes and babies."'
I'd say Obama seeking to wreck the Military by appointing political suck ups and prioritizing woke social engineering above war fighting, with the attendant results of a Navy that can't prevent it's own ships from colliding with each other and civilian ships, is far worse than Trump calling Generals, who think being woke is more important than being competent, bad names.
THIS IS THE GREATEST THING I HAVE EVERY READ
THEY ARE BABIES AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WINNING IS
ADVANCING AMERICAS WEALTH AND POWER
EXACTLY WHY WE ELECTED HIM
THE WAPOO SEEKS TO DESTROY HIM AND ONLY EMPOWERS HIM WITH STORIES LIKE THIS
TRUMP SHOULD BE EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE FOR LIFE!!!
Gospace: "As for the survey done by the Military Times that Chuck places so much reliance on, I don't know any retired or active duty enlisted or junior officer, or ROTC cadet, who believes it."
Every military member knows LLR-lefty Chuck's crappy lefty Military Times is bird cage liner.
LLR-lefty Chuck is too stupid to realize this which is why he has repeated this nonsense over and over again....just like all the other lunatic lefties on this blog.
Hmmmmmm, LLR-lefty Chuck once again in absolutely pitch perfect talking point alignment with the most lunatic lefties here.
Unexpectedly.
The "perfumed princes" phrase is homage to the late COL David H. Hackworth (p.b.u.h.).
Read "About Face."
Y'know Chuck, you don't need to parrot all the Trump hate. We can read the NYT, Wapo, and AP for ourselves. Or listen/watch: NPR/PBS/ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN or MSNBC. But keep on talking like you're saying something bold and interesting.
We have more admirals and generals now than at the end of World War 2, with a military about a tenth the size it was then. The Pentagon should be required to retire 80% of it's flag officers. Maybe then, we'd have some decorum.
Gospace said...
John henry said...
Re destroyers, yeah. How do we get so many collisions? A couple reasons in that cases were CIC and Bridge not talking to each other because of some personal feud between women. The same thing that led to the total loss of the Norwegian frigate HNoMS Helge Ingstad. Seems there's a difference between men and women. Women can't put their personal feelings aside when dealing with professional matters.
As for the survey done by the Military Times that Chuck places so much reliance on, I don't know any retired or active duty enlisted or junior officer, or ROTC cadet, who believes it. They (and I) certainly don't know many anti-Trumpers among their military friends and acquaintances.
I feel certain that what you are going to do, because it is the right thing to do, is to link us to another, better poll of military personnel within the last three months, that proves your point, and which demonstrates markedly different numbers from the Military Times.
Right? Of course you'll do that. I'll be standing by. Roger, out.
they aren't, just like pannetta and gates, were unwilling to challenge obamas decisions till the advance on their memoirs came, that's why he picked them, gates knowing that biden had the worst judgement in these matters, still refused to make his disagreements public, as for pannetta, we know his backstory going back to the 70s don't we?
What do you mean, "you people?"
Omniscient narration is rarely done this well in reportage.
I've always thought that the biggest cowards in America are senior military officers. I'm sure Obama didn't help the situation.
This is how conservatives respect career service to the nation?
It was done in a private setting. Trump didn't publish the story. I'm sure these generals have given and taken much worse in their long careers.
In trying to lead us to clutch our pearls, the WaPo article makes the generals seem like Prima Donnas. I doubt that's the case, but if it is then popping their bubbles was overdue. Nobody likes an ass-chewing, but we all need one sometimes.
Being purified by fire requires lighting a fire and waiting for the impure scum to rise to the top where they can can be skimmed off. The Military Officers that I have known spent 100% of their time playing promotion politics.They had no time left to study war and leadership tactics.
Interestingly, Trump early on displayed an insider's appreciation for the General Officers he was meeting with and addressed them as if he was sure of himself. How did Donald the Manhattan real estate developer and playboy get that inside education? Could that be another Q is real proof? Somebody selected Trump do be Hercules and do this Augean Stable swamp cleaning. And those somebody/s passed on to him Q level the Military Intelligence.
Trump's only complaint has been that 80% of the DC population he had to select among to govern with were incompetent and corrupt. That cleaning labor has taken 3 years and is only half done.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/president-truman-fires-gen-macarthur-april-11-1951-237055 On McArthur:
In a 1973 article in Time magazine, Truman was quoted as having said, off the record, in the early 1960s: “I fired him because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the president. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that’s not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail.”
a reminder, just like with Talbott or biden or Kerry, whenever they get on their high horse about Russia,
https://www.wnd.com/2011/06/312429/
After serving under incompetent 1 star and 3 star douchebags who got people killed and enabled the command culture that brought us the Abu Ghraib scandal, like BG Karpinski and LTG Sanchez, I have zero illusions about assuming flag level competence.
All you lefty douches whining about careerist Generals getting their asses chewed by POTUS need to pipe down and fuck off. You are clueless here.
Too bad all the liberals who were hysterical over MacArthur's "insubordination" to Truman are all dead. I can remember when that used to be an important thing with liberals. Control of the military by Civilians. "Good Generals" like Marshall and Grant saluted the POTUS and said "Yes Sir". "Bad Generals" like McClellan and Mac disagreed and went public. This used to be so vital to liberals they'd make up phony Docudramas about how Mac was rude to Truman at Wake Island, or would applaud "Give 'em Hell Harry" dramas where Harry. Truman would (fictionally) tell of Mac.
Now, its obey our military.
You know whats unprofessional in the Military, Howard?: Airing the dirty laundry of a subordinate getting his ass chewed by his boss.
Voters elected Donald Trump to challenge and shake up the DC establishment. That includes the Pentagon. Sounds like maybe the generals were expecting too much deference. They do work for the President, not the other way around. If Trump is going to chastise military leaders, a private setting is the right place to do it. Airing this "he violated decorum, can you believe that?" dirty laundry just makes Tillerson look small.
Indeed what was our strategy there, enabling suleimani to become kingmaker was not a good look and that's taken conservatively a dozen years to rectify,
Sadly, Truman went senile in his old age and started telling stories that weren't true. He turned his dispute with MacArthur into a personal thing which it wasn't. MacArthur - publicly and in person - was always respectful to Truman, and never denied his right to fire him. They disagreed over policy. Mac didn't like the "Die for a Tie" Korean War strategy. He said so publicly, and Truman fired him.
It should noted that by 1951, MacArthur was 71 y/o and had been in the Pacific since 1935. He had nothing to lose, and wasn't the least bit sorry to be relieved of command. Ridgeway took over, and was perfectly happy to do anything Truman wanted.
LLR-lefty Chuck (WHO WILL FIGHT YOU!) : Right? Of course you'll do that. I'll be standing by. Roger, out."
LOL
Every military member knows what lying hacks lefties like Chuck are.
Judge the dems REAL beliefs by their actions: in any recount the first thing LLR-lefty Chuck's beloved dems do is get as many military ballots thrown out as possible.
The Bush vs Gore Florida recount is the best example where Chuck's dem allies sent out flyers with instructions on how to have military ballots sent in from the field tossed out on technicalities.
Remember how Lieberman had to publicly apologize for that?
They still tossed those ballots though, of course.
That was the first truly public/real time example of Chuck and his pals attempting to overturn an election.
In 2004 there were lefty/LLR-lefty rumblings to pull the same nonsense in Ohio but Chuck and his pals werent effective enough in their cheating to make it close enough.
And we've now seen 4 years of what they will do from here on out.
maybe that pep talk had short term success, but the reality is that the government in Kabul has slightly more then the counterpart in Tripoli under the national accord, maybe 40% is in their control after 18 years,
’That is the gap in TrumpWorld. Either he said it or he didn't. Decide.’
The gap is located right between your false dichotomy.
You know, it isn't often that I suggest the need for another Althouse poll. Because all that an Althouse poll does, is to demonstrate the mindset of the Althouse commentariat. And usually, it is a frightening look into the abyss. However, that is actually part of what I like about Althouse polls.
Now, we need a new Althouse poll. Here is my draft of the poll question and response choices:
President Trump is reported in a new book by WaPo reporters to have called members of the general staff "dopes and babies." My reaction to that report is:
A. It was a great thing to say, and it is about time that a president said it.
B. The report is based on anonymous sources, and it comes from WaPo staff; I don't believe it and I regard it as "fake news."
C. I don't know if Trump said it, and I don't care.
D. If Trump shot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, he would not lose my vote.
since 1950 we've been involved in conflicts where were unwilling to win, macarthurs gambit was probably foolhardy, codevilla thinks differently, but Vietnam was worse, it wasn't till the Cambodian invasion already in the third quarter and lam song 19, that there was any actual forward push, the rest was the enemies prerogative,
in the 80s, we aimed smaller, the soviets didn't directly challenge us in Europe, so there were proxy battles in the third world, in latin America southern Africa, and south asia,
Chuck, according to polls, Hillary is our President. She soundly whomped Trump.
Trump's sitting in the oval office.
I spent 21 years active duty Navy. My eldest is an Army Captain with 18 years in, my youngest a third year ROTC Cadet. From what I hear from them, all of their current cohort are Trump supporters. Have a son and daughter-in-law former enlisted in military intelligence. They have friends on active duty still. And seems that the intelligence branch is very pro-Trump. I belong to 4 Facebook groups that are ship specific, one for submariners, and one general Navy group. And have over a dozen retired Navy as friends. All the friends are pro-Trump. And once in a while some twit will post an anti-Trump post on one or the other of the groups - and be roundly and soundly berated as a fool. I can believe what I see with my own eyes, OR, what a poll says.
Chuck said...
I feel certain that what you are going to do, because it is the right thing to do, is to link us to another, better poll of military personnel within the last three months, that proves your point, and which demonstrates markedly different numbers from the Military Times.
Right? Of course you'll do that. I'll be standing by. Roger, out.
I have a better idea.
We are going to rely on our own personal experiences.
One thing that surprised me while I was in was how little support the was for Bush. Ron Paul actually had quite a following and always led in political donations from the military.
After the changes to the ROE's and the changes in the flag ranks everyone absolutely hated Obama and his pet generals. This happened very fast. It doesn't take many buddies getting killed or people charged with murdering some taliban shitbag to turn the average Joe against you.
The loathing is universal. This loathing has transferred to the neocons as they sided with Hillary.
The Joe's think Trump cares about them. They got the sense Bush really didn't. And they are not going to listen to your stupid Gannet polls or Howard's condescending garbage.
Deal with it you piece of shit.
And in some ways we cannot wait for you people to start it. Please remove Trump with this bullshit impeachment. Please keep parading hacks with ankle monitors onto CNN. Please find 4 senators to out themselves as traitorous cucks. Please get 17 of them to vote to convict. We want the list to be complete. We don't want any of you shitheads sneaking off into the grass for later.
Please.
Clinton and Obama both fired generals (Campbell, McChrystal) for undermining civilian command. I don't remember liberal Democrats being upset that Clinton & Obama didn't show more deference to military leadership.
Chuck said...
D. If Trump shot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, he would not lose my vote.
He wont need to shoot them.
Traitors hang.
Beirut was perhaps the greatest strategic mistake, because they failed to consider this as an Iranian proxy war, see earlier thread, as tony badran points out, nearly 40 years later, we are conducting a rear guard action, in funding the Lebanese army, that is largely a tool of Hezbollah,
Beasts of England said...
’That is the gap in TrumpWorld. Either he said it or he didn't. Decide.’
The gap is located right between your false dichotomy
Yeah, left out the third option, "What difference, at this point, does it make?"
Brown Hornet said...
Clinton and Obama both fired generals (Campbell, McChrystal) for undermining civilian command. I don't remember liberal Democrats being upset that Clinton & Obama didn't show more deference to military leadership
Presidents fire individual generals all the time. I don't think that anyone thinks that is so unusual.
What is unusual about Trump -- himself a Vietnam era draft dodger -- is that he would speak to a group of them together in such reckless and dumbass terms.
Plenty of people grow dope, but are baby farmers underage labor?
WaPo, of course, presumed fake until proven otherwise.
This is not a game of 'doyouknowwhoiam'.
’Yeah, left out the third option, "What difference, at this point, does it make?"’
That’s perfect!! And accurate. But I’m still laughing at him for trying to create only two possible reactions of ‘Trumpists’ to the alleged comment. :)
Lots of generals are dopes and babies. After I retired from the USAF I worked a DoD civil service job for a MAJCOM somewhere in Texas where I observed quite a few of them. Once during a commander’s call a two star was handing out medals. That’s a lot of what they do. Officer’s got their medals first. The general had the entire citation read out for MSMs and other BS non-combat medals. Next up were the enlisted swine. But wait, they were running out of time! So the general just pinned the medals on them, didn’t even name them. The end. I was pissed so I emailed his boss, a three or four star, about the disrespect shown to the enlisted swine. People were aghast that I would email his superior. The response I received was, “Thanks for your input, my staff will look into it.“ Of course nothing happened. But less than a year later the two star fighter pilot jerk suddenly retired under suspicions of inappropriate sexual conduct with a subordinate. It made me happy. Yes, I am retired enlisted swine. I’m glad Trump called them out.
Gospace said...
Chuck, according to polls, Hillary is our President. She soundly whomped Trump.
Trump's sitting in the oval office.
I spent 21 years active duty Navy. My eldest is an Army Captain with 18 years in, my youngest a third year ROTC Cadet. From what I hear from them, all of their current cohort are Trump supporters. Have a son and daughter-in-law former enlisted in military intelligence. They have friends on active duty still. And seems that the intelligence branch is very pro-Trump. I belong to 4 Facebook groups that are ship specific, one for submariners, and one general Navy group. And have over a dozen retired Navy as friends. All the friends are pro-Trump. And once in a while some twit will post an anti-Trump post on one or the other of the groups - and be roundly and soundly berated as a fool. I can believe what I see with my own eyes, OR, what a poll says.
A Facebook page, where anyone who offers an anti-Trump position is ridiculed. Okay! Now that would be a good, representative place to do some polling! Yay!
Might as well poll the Althouse readership on who should win the 2020 election. Isn't that about 104% "Trump"?
Well, if Althouse is going to put up a poll, I would suggest this one:
What is Chuck?
(1) Douchebag
(2) Big Douchebag
(3) Bigger Douchebag
(4) Biggest Douchebag
I wonder, if she did the poll, whether or not 4 would get 100%.
In the Great War Captain Harry was the front line Captain of the 129th Field Artillery that did heroic work in the Meuse argonne Offensive.He understood being threatened with court martial by the REMF for every winning action his unit took in battle that he had not been ordered to do.
President Truman's string of accomplishments from 1945 to 1953 rate him as the best President of the Twentieth century. And the FDR elits guys were no help to him, but despised him for his populous origins. Sound familiar?
My thought experiment for the day is imagining what Rush Limbaugh would say, if Barack Obama or Joe Biden had been called out for telling general staff of the U.S. armed forces that they were "dopes and babies."
I never thought of you as a thinking person, Chuckles. Just a lying asshole who does his masters bidding.
Obama or Biden would never say that because they don't have the balls, just like you Chuckles.
I like how they talk about Tillers DAD being a soldier
Gives him reason to whine about The Commanders leadership style
n.n said...
WaPo, of course, presumed fake until proven otherwise.
So I'll just put you down for, "B. The report is based on anonymous sources, and it comes from WaPo staff; I don't believe it and I regard it as 'fake news'."
wendybar said...
Looks like he wasn't wrong....again.
And I'll put you down under, "A. It was a great thing to say, and it is about time that a president said it."
Thank you both for playing! And having given us the clearest and most succinct answers exposing the split in Trumpworld, we have for each of you the home edition of our game!
Lots of generals are dopes and babies. After I retired from the USAF I worked a DoD civil service job for a MAJCOM somewhere in Texas where I observed quite a few of them. Once during a commander’s call a two star was handing out medals. That’s a lot of what they do. Officer’s got their medals first. The general had the entire citation read out for MSMs and other BS non-combat medals. Next up were the enlisted swine. But wait, they were running out of time! So the general just pinned the medals on them, didn’t even name them. The end. I was pissed so I emailed his boss, a three or four star, about the disrespect shown to the enlisted swine. People were aghast that I would email his superior. The response I received was, “Thanks for your input, my staff will look into it.“ Of course nothing happened. But less than a year later the two star fighter pilot jerk suddenly retired under suspicions of inappropriate sexual conduct with a subordinate. It made me happy. Yes, I am retired enlisted swine. I’m glad Trump called them out.
Great Comment.
LLR-lefty Chuck, who never served but will happily write a 10,000 word "Vox Explainer" to you on the arduous and complex process by which he arrived at that anguished decision, is very very very upset at military members for not voting democrat.
LLR-lefty Chuck much prefers his team of Dick "US troops are Gestapo" Durbin and Dick "Stolen Valor" Blumenthal.
Chuck has his team, we have ours.
I like ours. It includes the vast majority of active duty, reserves and retired military. Unlike Chuck's which includes Joe Biden and Brian Stelter.
Yancey Ward said...
Well, if Althouse is going to put up a poll, I would suggest this one:
What is Chuck?
(1) Douchebag
(2) Big Douchebag
(3) Bigger Douchebag
(4) Biggest Douchebag
I wonder, if she did the poll, whether or not 4 would get 100%.
If it is less than 100%, I am demanding a recount.
Sadly, Truman went senile in his old age and started telling stories that weren't true. He turned his dispute with MacArthur into a personal thing which it wasn't. MacArthur - publicly and in person - was always respectful to Truman, and never denied his right to fire him. They disagreed over policy. Mac didn't like the "Die for a Tie" Korean War strategy. He said so publicly, and Truman fired him.
It should noted that by 1951, MacArthur was 71 y/o and had been in the Pacific since 1935. He had nothing to lose, and wasn't the least bit sorry to be relieved of command. Ridgeway took over, and was perfectly happy to do anything Truman wanted.
Just wanted to add that, you can read about the Mac Truman controversy in a book published by Arthur Schlesinger.
If Bernie is elected
The Wapoo would call every one of these people
"Endless war neocons"
Who wasted trillions of dollars and lives for nothing.
But right now they are resistance heroes.
Their time will come
LLR-lefty Chuck: "If it is less than 100%, I am demanding a recount."
No surprise.
Dems/Far left ALWAYS demand recounts.
Or revotes.
Or simply executing a coup.
I spent 21 years active duty Navy. My eldest is an Army Captain with 18 years in, my youngest a third year ROTC Cadet. From what I hear from them, all of their current cohort are Trump supporters. Have a son and daughter-in-law former enlisted in military intelligence. They have friends on active duty still. And seems that the intelligence branch is very pro-Trump. I belong to 4 Facebook groups that are ship specific, one for submariners, and one general Navy group. And have over a dozen retired Navy as friends. All the friends are pro-Trump. And once in a while some twit will post an anti-Trump post on one or the other of the groups - and be roundly and soundly berated as a fool. I can believe what I see with my own eyes, OR, what a poll says.
Great Post!
Considering most of them were probably appointed by Obama, and he might be right.
LLR-lefty Chuck: "Might as well poll the Althouse readership on who should win the 2020 election. Isn't that about 104% "Trump"?"
And thats why Chuck is here to fulfill his 2 explicit goals at Althouse:
1) to lie about and smear Trump
2) to drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers
And as with LLR-lefty Chucks "magnificent" obama Iran deal and foreign policy in general, he has failed.
Which is poetic in a way: Chuck has failed just like his hero obama.
Its rather poignant, isnt it?
Chuck said...
A Facebook page, where anyone who offers an anti-Trump position is ridiculed. Okay! Now that would be a good, representative place to do some polling! Yay!
The groups are open to all. If there was an equal number of anti and pro Trump military, of more anti Trump as suggested by the bogus poll, it would show up on SPECIFICALLY MILITARY ORIENTED groups. Or is it that anti-Trump military hates the military and doesn't associate with others?
I watched Navy beat SMU at Navy-Marine Corps Stadium this last year. The other Scout leader I was with was somewhat surprised. He had read that military officers were very anti-Trump. Lots of pro-Trump on display at the tailgate parties. Including Trump flags flying from portable flagpoles. Stopped at one of those tailgates with a flag flying to talk politics. Nothing good was said about Adm McRaven. Mix of active duty and others at that tailgate. And, they had showed great hospitality and had very generous pours. I guess anti-Trump officers aren't football fans either.
Actually, anti-Trump officers not being football fans wouldn't be surprising, would it...
FIDO: "Considering most of them were probably appointed by Obama, and he might be right."
No "might be" about it.
If Obama promoted them and/or LLR-lefty Chuck support them, they should go.
Immediately.
In just 3 years morale has increased dramatically in the military.
It will however take another 5 years to fully flush obamas gang from their perches in the military and reestablish order in the service academies where open pro-islamists taught cadets who were openly communist until Trump stopped that as well.
The last thing we need are more Brennans.
kennedy scribe Schlesinger, surely, so Westmoreland was more a 'parade general' and abrams more a war fighter, but he was put in the 3rd quarter, although arguably mistakes going back to 1963 had doomed our strategy, way before the marine landings in 65,
traditionalguy said...
In the Great War Captain Harry was the front line Captain of the 129th Field Artillery that did heroic work in the Meuse argonne Offensive.He understood being threatened with court martial by the REMF for every winning action his unit took in battle that he had not been ordered to do.
A scenario used in the Clint Eastwood movie Heartbreak Ridge.
The biggest dope and baby is the one who waits for everyone else to say something when called a bunch of dopes and babies.
Trump has a gift for reading people. It's called, "put you in a situation and see how you react."
It doesn't work when he first sees you, which is why there is a revolving door at the White House.
But he's going to test you, so he doesn't suffer fools for long.
I have a daughter who is active duty USSF, and she was a Hillary voter. So there are some, of course, but she recognizes she's part of a tiny minority.
The idea the the enlisted ranks mirror the general US population in Trump approval doesn't pass the laugh test.
The only General that predated obama that obama didnt want fired was named Soleimani.
DanTheMan: "The idea the the enlisted ranks mirror the general US population in Trump approval doesn't pass the laugh test."
Well, thats our Chuck!
This is one reason, as a free thinking Libertarian leaning...californian..sigh, is why I love Trump,
Those murderous cowards deserve more than mere scorn for their heinous management of the US military and the effects on its members, and the people of the world they interact with.
I’ve sat through a lot of meetings in my life and never had the pleasure of seeing this kind of courage unleashed. For courage is all that I came away with upon reading this: Trump’s courage to take on these highly decorated men. He may have been rude and may have been wrong but he definitely was not cowed by them.
And that’s why I voted for Trump.
outrage is often overplayed,
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2020/01/17/supercut-cnn-rages-hours-about-indecent-slam-manu-raju
>>Well, thats our Chuck!
He's not ours. He's being paid by somebody to post here.
My grandfather (WWII) held a very clear, consistent position. He maintained that above a functional combat level, all you had in the military were politicians. He was more of a Chesty Puller kind of guy. Remember... Redd Foxx saying "he got so scared he turned around and ran. He ran so far he bumped into a bunch of generals".
Where is the part where the Admirals and Generals said things about Trump and Tillerson was livid?
Because otherwise this is just civility bullshit.
I'm really not surprised at Trump's assessment.
These people were promoted under 8 years of Obama.
Trump might not take them to war, but he'd definitely let them plan a diversity conference.
I doubt that this is the complete story, and perhaps it isn't even a true story....I note that there were never any leaked stories about conflict and friction within the Obama administration. I do not believe that this is because no conflict or friction existed within that administration but rather because the insiders and the reporters understood that there was a larger, greater story to be told. The insiders were muted and the reporters didn't seek them out.... In like way, you will find very few women coming forward with awkward stories about JFK, Bill Clinton, or--God help them--MLK. You will find even fewer reporters investigating the transgressions of these men. I don't think this principle applies to Trump and his sexual history....Stalin made some monumentally bad strategic decisions and frequently ridiculed his generals. So far as I know there were never any leaked stories coming from the military about his lack of tact and expertise. Obama saw the wisdom of Stalin's ways and quickly canned McChrystal for voicing a negative opinion, but, in America, you really need the cooperation of the press to make it work.
This is all very simple to understand. When the military was led by gay-hating, tranny-persecuting Southern males, it deserved lambasting and disrespect. Now that it is led by Woke Warriors for Diversity, it is sacred!
Someone better get naked by page 140, or I’ll lose interest.
Chuck said, "What is unusual about Trump -- himself a Vietnam era draft dodger -- is that he would speak to a group of them together in such reckless and dumbass terms."
Are you kidding? That is exactly what Trump would do, and perhaps especially because he was "himself a Vietnam era draft dodger".
Note Althouse's comment in the post: "Why should those people be facilitated in their comfort and established old ways? During the Vietnam War era, we would have reacted with derision at expectations like that."
Whether this dressing down took place or not, I imagine Trump has left no doubt among the brass who the boss is.
DanTheMan said...
...
The idea the the enlisted ranks mirror the general US population in Trump approval doesn't pass the laugh test
So now you can be the second commenter whom I have asked to show us the polling results that demonstrate Trump's massive level of support among active duty military.
It should be easy, right? I mean, you said it; it is laughable to think that Trump has anything less than overwhelming support among active duty personnel. There has to be some honest, accurate polling that demonstrates that fact.
But I won't hold my breath, okay?
Cue the Beach Boys "In My Room."
Yancey Ward said...
Well, if Althouse is going to put up a poll, I would suggest this one:
What is Chuck?
(1) Douchebag
(2) Big Douchebag
(3) Bigger Douchebag
(4) Biggest Douchebag
I wonder, if she did the poll, whether or not 4 would get 100%.
I would vote for 1.
There is nothing big about Chuck.
He is one of the smallest people to exist.
Drago, how dare you challenge Chuck's life long career in the military?
I just scroll past the turds.
There is a saying in the military that goes "Trust no one above 0-6" They are all politicians. The smartest guys you will meet are usually colonels passed over. A good friend of mine, one of the most famous Marine fighter pilots alive (call sign Fokker), was passed over because he was awarded a big garish medal by Bahrain for saving them from Saddam in Gulf War I. He was group commander but still flew 60 combat missions. The wing commander (who didn't get a medal) damned him with faint praise and was cashiered a few years later for flying his girl friend in a Marine plane.
My friend retired and formed a security company that he sold about ten years later for $23 million to 3M. Who do you think would have made a better general ? His Vietnam fight suit is in the Smithsonian.
Bob said...
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Whether this dressing down took place or not, I imagine Trump has left no doubt among the brass who the boss is.
Bob, I'd like to put you down for, "C. I don't know if Trump said it, and I don't care."
But I suspect that the better Althouse poll response for you would be, "D. If Trump shot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, he would not lose my vote."
Political skills in a general is not such a bad thing. Eisenhower was able to keep Montgomery, Patton, DeGaulle on the same page and working together. He was liked by the British and American populace and all the soldiers who served under him....MacArthur was a more innovative soldier than Eisenhower. His tactics in the Pacific saved lives, but he was never as liked by his soldiers as Eisenhower....Political skills count for something.
I love that Chuck, by his own declarations, doesn’t care what any of us ‘Trumpkins’ think, but he created a fake poll and is now carefully assigning his assumed results to the people he doesn’t care about!! Clever.
> Political skills count for something.
That is what Patton used to say.
"The poll surveyed 1,630 active-duty Military Times subscribers....The numbers likely reflect a more career-minded subset of the military than the force as a whole,"
Not that suprising a poll considering it was taken by a anti-Trump platform.
Obfuscation by a LLR. BAMN I guess.
If Trump shot worthless little cunts like Chuck who pretend to be lawyers in the face on 5th avenue, I'd dance in the streets and hand out candy like a Palestinian on 9/11. Put that on a poll.
Imagine you are LLR-lefty Chuck and your assignment today is to convince military members and their associates that Trump does not have the support of the vast majority of the military but instead the socialists/commies of the Democratics Party are closing in on that vote!!
LOLOLOLOL
Even better, imagine you are LLR-lefty Chuck with a history of bizarre and vicious and smear-filled attacks against conservative republicans with distinguished military careers AND a long history of defending every far left hack who has attacked and smeared our military for decades.
Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is quite the assignment, eh?
President-Mom-Jeans said...
If Trump shot worthless little cunts like Chuck who pretend to be lawyers in the face on 5th avenue, I'd dance in the streets and hand out candy like a Palestinian on 9/11. Put that on a poll.
Well, have a nice day!
Trump showed them who is boss.
Obama cowered to the side while a brass sat at the head of the table to decide the killing of Osama.
Trump was at the head of the table, sitting straighter, taller and more imposing than anyone else, when he decided to terminate Soliemani. Or was it El-Baghdadi?
Btw, how did Obama revere the brass? He purged them and promoted his own minions. It's Obama's minions that Trump called "a bunch of dopes and babies".
BTW, one way to tell that the McClatchy poll is BS will show up in November - when Democrat lawyers fight to have military absentee ballots disqualified like they do every election.
pacwest: "The poll surveyed 1,630 active-duty Military Times subscribers....The numbers likely reflect a more career-minded subset of the military than the force as a whole,"
BTW, the Military Times "subscribers" set includes a massive number of groups/depts/individuals who are civilians and civilian contractors and not even active or retired military!!!!
It's the absolute perfect Fake Poll pushed by Fake News and boosted by Fake Conservatives like LLR-lefty Chuck.
Absolutely perfect.
Next Up: Lev Parnas claims Rudy Giuliani and Bill Barr and The Second Shooter On The Grassy Knoll told him the Military Times Poll is, like, totally legit!!
President-Mom-Jeans: "If Trump shot worthless little cunts like Chuck who pretend to be lawyers in the face on 5th avenue, I'd dance in the streets and hand out candy like a Palestinian on 9/11."
If Trump shot worthless little cunts like Chuck who pretend to be lawyers in the face on 5th avenue, I'd dance in the streets and hand out candy like an Arab on 9/11.
FIFY
Trump doesn't do things "the traditional way," and if you look at the results of "the traditional way" over the past 50 years, you can make a very strong argument for his approach. FWIW, I was in the Navy for 20 years, and have a naval officer son currently pretty close to "the tip of the spear."
The comment Above on military times explains why they appointed an anti trumper as chief editor.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/16/army-times-editor-trump-hate/
You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this -- how can you take the abuse you get on a [mission]?! You don't like it -- leave!
historical note, the brits first became involved in Afghanistan about 200 years ago, with the Elphinstone expedition, about 20 years later, that would lead to the first of three afghan wars, the second in 1876, the third in 1919 after the great war,
the first went very badly,
https://www.britishbattles.com/first-afghan-war/battle-of-kabul-and-the-retreat-to-gandamak/
Trump does seem to be blessed/cursed with an ability of reading people that he meets. The downside to that is con men see his penetrating look at them and know they are in trouble unless they can get rid of him quickly. So the plans start to stop him on day one. Observers call that TDS. Yet to honest people Trump is valued highly for that talent.
From the headline and outrage, it looks like a win for Trump.
He has read Catch-22, which describes not specifically the military but any organization in terms the dysfunction of the military.
Pfc. Wintergreen is in charge, now a tech wizard rather than a mail clerk.
I can guarantee you. those Flag officers have been called worse. As junior officers. They were taught to stand there and let their boss criticize their actions. That's how the military works. Actually, it makes them better in the long run. Trump was putting them in their place and establishing the ground for a future relationship.
Don't forget, a General/Admiral is a political animal by nature. they don't get there unless they are. Trump was laying out the new political rules.
well jag officers are the referees, sadly and we've seen the consequences,
A couple of General stories: A Lt Col I served under was assigned at the Pentagon and was a glorified coffee boy at a briefing for a bunch of Brigadier General selectees. A Three or Four Star started the brief with, “Look around you. You all think you are the best and the brightest. But I’m telling you, the statistics for your all are the same as for the rest of the people: 10-20% of you are great, 20% are above average to average, 40% average to below average, and 20% of you aren’t worth a shit and will be nothing but trouble.”
A relative who was a General Officer in the 80s, when I mentioned Colon Powell would be a good candidate for President when he retired: “Johnny, he IS NOT the man you think he is.”
Same relative sharing an article about the AF Chief of Staph agonizing over a new Battle Dress Uniform replacement: “The AF has truly lost its way…and he is one of the main reasons why.” (It was McPeak. He was an ass. Still is.)
I got out (separated as an O-3, Air Force Captain) just before the stop loss was announced at Gulf War 1. One of the reasons I did get out was, I was at a Major Command HQ and saw the results of a promotion board for Lt Cols. The usual promotion cycle consisted of a good 20% got promoted as they should – high achievers worthy of it, and some of those were below the zone, then a bunch who should have and were, a few who didn’t and you wondered why they didn’t make it, and then the 20% who should not have and were not. Not this one – it was flipped – most of the good ones got passed over, the bad ones made it and there was no rhyme or reason with the others. I thought, no way I want to serve under those ass holes…
We should impeach any President who refuses to agree with the Deep State defense viewpoints.
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