Althouse: What's your reaction to the new approach to comment moderation we've been using on this blog over the last few weeks?

October 20, 2019

What's your reaction to the new approach to comment moderation we've been using on this blog over the last few weeks?

UPDATE: The results:

189 comments:

Achilles said...: Not a fan of censorship. My side wins in open debate.

The enemies of freedom benefit from your approach. They can't help but look hypocritical and awful and they can't actually deal with the issues at hand honestly.

But it is your blog.; 10/20/19, 11:46 AM
Bob Boyd said...: I would say both 2 and 4 are true.; 10/20/19, 11:47 AM
Tank said...: I voted 2, but it’s also 4.; 10/20/19, 11:48 AM
MayBee said...: I get there are reasons for it, obviously you wouldn't do something without a reason. But I'd rather those reasons were overcome by the desire not to have the moderation.; 10/20/19, 11:49 AM
stonethrower said...: I thought that moderation had gone away quietly weeks ago.; 10/20/19, 11:54 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Not a fan at all of moderation.; 10/20/19, 11:54 AM
Big Mike said...: Like Tank and Bob Boyd, I voted for #2, but there's a bit of #4 in my answer.; 10/20/19, 11:59 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "But I'd rather those reasons were overcome by the desire not to have the moderation."

Realize that you don't see the situation from my side, so you do not know the dimension of the problem I needed to solve. I understand your wish and I share it, but the real world has something else in mind for me. My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether. Moderation is distracting and time consuming, but letting the truly bad actors come in, do their dance of shitting the place up, and then cleaning up comment by comment is no longer an option.; 10/20/19, 12:01 PM
Bill Peschel said...: It works for me. Unless I really have something to say, I don't comment. And I find more and more not bothering to read the comments, so I spend less time here.

I'm not disagreeing with your decision to moderate, note. I'm just saying how I've subconsciously respond to it.; 10/20/19, 12:04 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Good poll. So far #2 (“It's a bit frustrating but I get that there are reasons for it”) is way out ahead. I’m a selfish #1 (“It's really troublesome to me”) and expected more in that category. The commenting seems to have lost its immediacy. I still obsessively refresh comment pages to see the latest, but when the rewards now are often hours apart, I expect to see this behavior on my part extinguished. Maybe that would be good for me.

My suggestion is to run your overnight Cafe posts unmoderated, if that is possible. That is the most frustrating for me, because insomniacs like me now have no outlet (without going elsewhere and discovering a new community) in the middle of the night, when MeadHouse has other priorities (like sleeping) over moderation. The purpose of the Cafes was discussion, and we really don’t have that overnight anymore.; 10/20/19, 12:09 PM
rcocean said...: Moderation is working out fine. Yes, the real time commenting could be enjoyable, but it could also be terrible with the usual suspects spamming a thread. And then there were the crazies who wanted to destroy the comment section - for whatever reason.

So keep up the great work!; 10/20/19, 12:12 PM
Ice Nine said...: Then why are you asking us what we think of it, since it appears that you like it, need it, whatever...?

But since you did ask - it really screws your blog commenting up. Waiting hours for stale replies is greatly detrimental to good conversation, as we used to have here. The way to deal with Chuck and Inga and the other trash commentary is to ignore it. I have a down arrow on my keyboard.; 10/20/19, 12:12 PM
Kay said...: Things have been fine the past few weeks, so I suggest continuing. I don’t really notice much of a difference between your new moderation style and the old.; 10/20/19, 12:15 PM
Original Mike said...: You remarked at the beginning of this new moderation episode that you regarded the comments section as us talking to you. It's your blog, so you can impose your view, obviously. But my enthusiasm for your blog was that this was a community that talked to each other. Now it's not. It's like we're here for your amusement. I'm less interested in that.; 10/20/19, 12:16 PM
gspencer said...: Would prefer a return to the old method.; 10/20/19, 12:18 PM
Captain BillyBob said...: Doesn't change anything for me but I did notice.; 10/20/19, 12:21 PM
eddie willers said...: I wish you would turn it off when you go to bed and reinstate it in the morning. The Cafes are where moderation hurts the most. Sure, some older posts will get trashed, but they are older.; 10/20/19, 12:22 PM
cubanbob said...: "Moderation is distracting and time consuming, but letting the truly bad actors come in, do their dance of shitting the place up, and then cleaning up comment by comment is no longer an option."

Does the platform allow you to ban the miscreants? If it does, then once a bad actors commences, just ban them. With that ability you wouldn't need to clean up as once they are banned they won't be able to shit the place up any further. You won't have to do housekeeping of the noxious comments as most of us won't mind. While I don't speak for anyone but me, before when the usual suspects were running amok, I would just skip them and go to the normal commenters which is why I love this blog so much. You have done something unique, you have become a catalyst that has attracted a commentariat that really is enjoyable to read. Thoughtful, interesting and often informative commentary which in my experience isn't all that common elsewhere. All that said, given a choice between moderation or no comments my vote is for moderation. And again, let me thank you (and Meade) for this blog.; 10/20/19, 12:27 PM
samanthasmom said...: I get why you're doing it, but combine it with a lot of links that take me behind paywalls I don't want to fund, and I find myself coming here less often. I'm still interested in what you have to say, and I have other of your visitors I follow. I seldom comment myself so having anything i say go into moderation doesn't register annoyance for me, but I do miss the back and forth that gets lost in this format. It's kind of like watching something you've DVR'd after the scores have been announced. Still interesting sometimes, but not compelling to turn on the TV.; 10/20/19, 12:29 PM
Laurel said...: Number 1.

I very much miss the ‘spontaneous’ nature of the varied, interesting commenters. Having to wait hours, literally, for comments to show makes for stale interaction.

And, yet, as in so much of life today, the ‘intolerant minority’ ruin it for everyone.; 10/20/19, 12:30 PM
Seeing Red said...: It’s a shame blogger doesn’t allow the opportunity to moderate individually.

Say the first 100 posts of a new poster are moderated, but more established posters wouldn’t be.

They’ll show their hand at some point and have to keep re-upping and being moderated, while those who’ve been long-time posters have it easier.; 10/20/19, 12:34 PM
Rick said...: I don't sleep well, and it's not unusual for me to be wide awake at 3 am. I use to look forward to checking in, and reading all the comments in your overnight cafe.

Some days the discussion was the best Scotch (took notes) or a gin and tonic. I was interested in the books that were discussed, or maybe a link to a music video.

The beauty of the overnight discussion was not knowing what the topic would be. I miss that,
and am sorry that some people ruined it.

Thank you for all the time that you have spent on this. It was appreciated, and I enjoy seeing your pictures.

While I have emerged from my lurking, I have to ask if your avocado tree survived our wet summer, and if it will fit in your house this winter. What will you do when it gets too big. Does it mind being pruned? Will it ever give you fruit, or do you need another one for pollination?; 10/20/19, 12:35 PM
iowan2 said...: We have all been to sites that get 500, 1000, 4000 comments. Thats worthless. almost all fail to expand the information, or thinking on the topic. I contribute to that sometimes myself.
What has happened is some commenters think their take is the only true take on the subject, refusing to accept Althouse is the only true take. A disagreement is what makes things interesting, hecklers veto proves nothing. Self moderation only works for for those possessing a hint of self control and humility.
This moderation is the best outcome, due to those that seek validation by their attempts at drowning out opposing views. Wish it weren't so.; 10/20/19, 12:37 PM
ALP said...: I grew weary of scrolling past tedious/predictable/repetitive back and forth posts that amounted to little more than: "AM NOT YOU ARE...." I enjoy the reading far more now. More adult, less juvenile.; 10/20/19, 12:38 PM
alan markus said...: The best parts of this blog are the choice of topics with commentary by the hostess, as well as some the commenters. Without comments I would probably not read the blog as much.

What I have noticed myself is that without the "live stream" of comments, I don't need to be constantly checking this site. I stepped away for about 3 days - came back and caught up on the posts and found that without a ton of comments, found that they were more focused and easier to read through. The other day one of the more annoying commenters reappeared - I wanted to jump on a comment he made - however, as I read further down the post I saw that several had already said what I would have said.; 10/20/19, 12:39 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: I voted bothersome. I missed whatever drama precipitated the crackdown.

But this is Althouse's blog and it is like an art project. She has a vision of what the blog should be and she is trying to get there.

To me the blog has two distinct parts. One is the articles and that is as good and interesting as always.

The second part are the comments. Those have been great over the years. Althouse has attracted a lot of interesting commentators. This is the first blog I turn to when there is something in the news that needs to be debated. But now I mostly just skip the comments. There's no more dialogue.; 10/20/19, 12:40 PM
William said...: #5 It's a necessary evil.; 10/20/19, 12:43 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I don't like it when you post something and then leave for a day or two (e.g. to Denver) and don't tell us that practically no comments will be posted for a day or two.

* Tell us you'll be gone for a day or two

or else

* Don't post anything.; 10/20/19, 12:43 PM
Mark said...: I still see the same attacks against left commenters, still find plenty of the same old commenters doing the same old things. Various commenters constantly trying to 'out' people as Inga/etc - comments that should never make it through moderation from commenters who prefer personal attacks.

IMO, open it up or start paying attention to the various Inga detectives etc who leave plenty of shit stains even after moderation; 10/20/19, 12:48 PM
Beasts of England said...: Appreciate what you do, professor, and the extra steps you’ve taken to eliminate the trolls.

Back and forth is still possible, but the delay appears to have ended the cat fights; helping the flow of the comment strings. It has also cultivated better quality responses, in general.

Thanks again.; 10/20/19, 12:48 PM
gilbar said...: i vote for 1 and 4!; 10/20/19, 12:48 PM
Michael K said...: My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether.

Understandable but it would mean the end of the blog. You might decide to do other things with your time.

It is amusing that the LA Times and Chicago Tribune have ended comments. There was a time, years ago. when editorials often had the writer's email address. I had some interesting exchanges with some. Long before the present polarization, of course.

The Wall Street Journal is now accepting comments on only some stories.

Powerline and Ricochet seem to have more active moderation.; 10/20/19, 12:53 PM
Rabel said...: "My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether."

No. Your other realistic alternative is moving the blog to a platform that allows banning of abusive commenters.

This one and the history will still be here.; 10/20/19, 12:53 PM
The Godfather said...: I’m a combination of 1 and 2 — I understand there are reasons for moderation, but I still find that it substantially interferes with my enjoyment of reading the comments and, occasionally, commenting myself. Under the old system I could usually ignore the flamers, and when I couldn’t. I’d just stop reading.; 10/20/19, 12:55 PM
Paco Wové said...: A moderated comments section is unfortunate, but I can see why it would be necessary. It's a little bit like the comments section is on some kind of anti-psychotic drug – the manic episodes are gone, but the side effects are a deadening of reactions and loss of spontaneity.

Censorship can take place under the cover of moderation, but I would take issue with those that think "moderation" and "censorship" are synonyms.; 10/20/19, 12:55 PM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: Suppresses annoying flame wars, at cost of inhibiting timely cogent informative discussion. A judgement call. I can live with it. Thanks. - Hammond; 10/20/19, 1:00 PM
Birkel said...: Like most plans, the opposition gets a vote.
I trust Althouse.; 10/20/19, 1:00 PM
Roughcoat said...: Glad Fen is gone, for whatever reason.; 10/20/19, 1:02 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: I really hated the 300-comment threads saying you're-stupid-no-you're-stupid. You could always pinpoint the exact location where the thread went to hell. God help me, in past years I participated in some of those clown shows, even started a few, but I always felt unclean afterward. Eventually it made me withdraw from commenting frequently. I think moderation improves discourse here, but like some others I wish updates could happen more quickly.; 10/20/19, 1:06 PM
Charlie Eklund said...: Comment moderation is the sad but necessary result of certain people deciding that the blogger must kowtow to their wishes or the comment section will be essentially destroyed. It is not censorship to prevent those who were previously well thought of by many but who have now become unhinged from ruining everybody else’s time here.; 10/20/19, 1:07 PM
Greg Hlatky said...: Moderation stinks. You can't bring yourself to restrict or ban the small gang of idiots so everyone has to be punished. Cruel, stupid neutrality.; 10/20/19, 1:07 PM
rhhardin said...: The problem wasn't bad actors but replies to bad actors.

Bad actor says X.

Good guy replies Y.

Bad actor replies Z.

If Y was any good, there's no need to elaborate. Y is still there. If good guy wants to reply again it just means that Y was no good. The last word doesn't win, the best word does. Make your point the first time and stop.

And the constant Althouse disparager doesn't ruin the thread, everybody just skips it anyway. The replies ruin the thread. You find that almost always you have to skip the good guys too. That's what a thread ruin is.; 10/20/19, 1:08 PM
Christy said...: 2 & 4.

I don't see anyone wanting to shut down arguments. We just weary of name calling, childish rants and bad faith posters.

I fear this tedious administrative duty will result in no comments allowed.; 10/20/19, 1:10 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I think I have suggested this before (though as an 'Unknown' it certainly won't have much weight..):

Move to a new blogging platform that has better control on comments in general and comments for individual posts. BUT leave the blogger blog online with comments turned off. That way your new posts would be on a decent platform going forward, but you could still link all the old posts, which would still be online "forever".

I admit I don't know the monetary impact of this scheme.; 10/20/19, 1:12 PM
mockturtle said...: I checked 'troublesome' because there is such an avalanche of comments to read at a time and I'm one who likes to read the comments.; 10/20/19, 1:14 PM
etbass said...: How about the idea of appointing someone(s) you trust to help w the moderation? The big problem from commenters’ standpoint is that moderation cripples dialogue because of the long delays. At least, I think that is the feeling.; 10/20/19, 1:15 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: There are two things I love about this blog:

1 AA's posts
2. The Commentariat's reactions to the posts.

(Duh, what else is there?)

In my view, the quality of AA's posts remain at high quality.

The moderation, though, stifles the reactions among the commentators, which I don't like so much.

But a few commentators couldn't play by the rules and trying to wreck the blog, so AA had to reign It in. So, I understand that.

My suggestion would be to have some "unmoderated" cafe posts as a trial run to let the creative juices of the Comnentariat flow a bit. If the knuckleheads wrecked those, well, then we'd have to accept permanent moderation.; 10/20/19, 1:19 PM
Oso Negro said...: You and Meade have lives outside the blog (!), so it's necessarily slow sometimes. But the Chuck and Inga show was utterly repellent to me. It made the comments pretty much unreadable after the first 50 or so on many many posts. These days I can read to the end without running into those two assholes and the sidebar name-calling. Good riddance to that!; 10/20/19, 1:21 PM
jimbino said...: This survey is dumb in the sense that nobody can vote intelligently based on ignorance of all those comments that were deleted that he can't see! Any blog that "moderates" comments should maintain a bucket of deleted comments available for all to see.; 10/20/19, 1:29 PM
Francisco D said...: Fen had a meltdown here Chuck was really creepy when he went after Althouse.

The other trolls did not seem all that malicious towards Althouse, although Inga was sometimes on the borderline.

Am I missing any perps?; 10/20/19, 1:34 PM
jimbino said...: Ann, you need to maintain a bucket in which you throw all your censored comments, available for all to see, in order to determine what it is you censor and whether we'd be happier moving to a less censorious blog. It's dumb for you to do a poll asking whether we readers approve of your "moderation" without providing us with examples of what you think is outside the bounds.; 10/20/19, 1:35 PM
MH said...: moderation is time consuming...give a trusted moderate commenter that function; 10/20/19, 1:35 PM
Phil 314 said...: For some reason this post/poll reminded me of an old internet meme:

Don’t taze me bro!

(I’d hyperlink that but linking doesn’t seem to ever work on my mini iPad); 10/20/19, 1:44 PM
Michael The Magnificent said...: It's your blog, you do what you need to do.

Perhaps in the future, blogger.com will allow you to select which commenters are trusted and not moderated, with the remainder being moderated.; 10/20/19, 1:45 PM
CWJ said...: Cafes no longer make sense, particularly posted end of day, which had been SOP up to now. Sad.; 10/20/19, 1:47 PM
Ken B said...: That person was out of control. Moderation is killing the blog slowly, but maybe it’s like chemotherapy.; 10/20/19, 1:51 PM
Karen of Texas said...: It's too bad Blogger doesn't have a feature that lets you approve commentors that can post without moderation while allowing moderation on all other comments. Then you could have an approved core of commentors whose comments have proven valuable/on point - while other commentors could be "auditioning" for approval. Of course $hitheads could slip through, like in Facebook groups, but then you simply remove those commentors "unmoderated approval status".

I appreciate what it takes for you to have to run the blog the way you must run it now; but I do miss the commentary that was more free flowing, conversational, and spontaneous. I've adjusted, though.

I, too, agree with the #2, #4 comments.; 10/20/19, 1:58 PM
Mr. Groovington said...: I’d like to know if the dimension we can’t see was from the organized left, and thus a potentially life changing threat.; 10/20/19, 2:00 PM
Shane said...: I think 2, 3 and 4, but I voted 4. I will always appreciate the effort you make in the blog itself. I can only imagine the extra work of moderation makes the entire thing less enjoyable. As you implemented it, I support it.; 10/20/19, 2:13 PM
Two-eyed Jack said...: Althouse,
I thank you for creating this forum and the opportunity to participate.

Your predicament illustrates the vacuity of the notion that the cure for bad speech is more speech. Free speech depends upon restraint and the observance of rules by speaker and listener. The cure for rule infections in football is not more rule infractions. The same in debate. Free speech is an alternative to force. Without rules force prevails (unless we are lucky, in which case lethargy prevails).; 10/20/19, 2:15 PM
traditionalguy said...: For the competitive commenters, moderation makes commenting that much more exciting: how much can they get away with this time? It's not easy to fool The Professor.She wins the "Drug Sniffing Dog of Moderation" award this time.

Maybe Meade can take over for a day or two and comment hell will break lose again.; 10/20/19, 2:15 PM
Jim at said...: How DARE someone have a life outside of moderating comments on his or her blog.; 10/20/19, 2:16 PM
Jeff said...: I understand that you don't have time to delete all the bad-faith comments made by those-who-shall-not-be-named, but have you considered appointing some deputies to handle it for you? I can think of several long-time commenters here who could be trusted to remove only the most egregious of comments. If you gave of them the password to your blog, they could help with comment deletion. Or, if you want to continue to moderate comments, you could let a few trusted others assist with the moderation. If the moderation takes place quickly enough, we don't lose much of the interactivity and spontaneity that made the blog special.; 10/20/19, 2:21 PM
stevew said...: People don't like change, unless it is change they are driving. This moderation change is a drag, as compared to how commenting used to behave, but far superior to the obnoxiousness of the few that trashed the place leading to the moderation regime.

I'm used to it now. Have adjusted my reading and commenting habits.; 10/20/19, 2:24 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: “Moderation is distracting and time consuming, but letting the truly bad actors come in, do their dance of shitting the place up, and then cleaning up comment by comment is no longer an option.”

In the decade+ that I’ve been coming here, how often has that happened? Very seldom that I’ve seen. Sure, you’ll get Ritmo or Inga shitting themselves in the tail end of a 300-comment post but who cares? Hell, at that point the only people still reading the comments are the hardcore. You know, people who come here to read 300-comment pissing matches. I get how Fen-like histrionics are a threat to the blog but that’s a rare occurrence.
The fact is Althouse, that, as erudite and interesting as your posts may be, people come here to read the comments of others and add their own opinions and observations. Non-stop moderation does great harm to your blog’s worth. Stopping comments altogether will turn it into a mausoleum.
Blogger is full of little blogs that are lucky to get two comments in a month. You’re an 800-lb. gorilla in this sphere but only as long as you have the heart for the rough-and-tumble.; 10/20/19, 2:24 PM
PJ said...: I’m with Boyd and Tank — I voted 2, but 2+4 is the truth.; 10/20/19, 2:25 PM
gilbar said...: Karen of Texas said...
It's too bad Blogger doesn't have a feature that lets you approve commentors that can post without moderation

That's what The Real Problem IS: Blogger!
You should be able to not just approve unmoderated commentors, or should be able BAN people
AND
We should be able to (easily) ignore commentors we don't want to see
(i know, i know; people 'say' you can do this now: reference the word "easily")

There are people hear that 'claim' to be computerists
One of YOU need to MAKE a replacement for blogger.
Blogger's Claim to Fame is that it's NOT Facebook; surely someone can top that?
Get to work people! I've got flies to tie, and fish to catch!; 10/20/19, 2:25 PM
rehajm said...: I like the moderation. Like I said- Quaker meeting...; 10/20/19, 2:26 PM
mockturtle said...: Francisco D ['Anconia] asks: Am I missing any perps?

Yes, the malevolent M.E.G.; 10/20/19, 2:26 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ Then why are you asking us what we think of it, since it appears that you like it, need it, whatever...?”

I wanted to know and for readers to see the distribution of votes on the 4 options. The people in category 1 are vocal and may believe that they have a lot of company, but they are only 15%. And I suspected that few in categories 1&2 were aware of the large numbers in 3&4. Reality check.; 10/20/19, 2:28 PM
gilbar said...: CWJ said...
Cafes no longer make sense, particularly posted end of day, which had been SOP up to now. Sad.

maybe Cafes could be wild west shoot 'em out saloons? Without moderation?
Otherwise, there's not a lot of point in putting one up at the end of the day; 10/20/19, 2:28 PM
Darrell said...: Cafe posts only have to be moderated once in the morning. Who cares what a handful have said to each other through the night? Delete the whole post, if you must.; 10/20/19, 2:30 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ You remarked at the beginning of this new moderation episode that you regarded the comments section as us talking to you. It's your blog, so you can impose your view, obviously. But my enthusiasm for your blog was that this was a community that talked to each other. Now it's not. It's like we're here for your amusement. I'm less interested in that.”

Yet you are still here and displaying your lack of compassion for my predicament and unappreciative of what I have given for 15 years so I’m “less interested “ in you too.; 10/20/19, 2:31 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ Things have been fine the past few weeks, so I suggest continuing. I don’t really notice much of a difference between your new moderation style and the old.”

Thanks. You sound very sensible, Kay.; 10/20/19, 2:32 PM
Jeff said...: I wanted to know and for readers to see the distribution of votes on the 4 options. The people in category 1 are vocal and may believe that they have a lot of company, but they are only 15%. And I suspected that few in categories 1&2 were aware of the large numbers in 3&4. Reality check.

I voted twice, just to see if it's possible. It is. So you can't really put much stock in the numbers.; 10/20/19, 2:32 PM
langford peel said...: Censorship is always applauded by the weak minded amongst us.; 10/20/19, 2:37 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: I wish that the comments were faster to be able to increase the sense of conversation between posters. It is nice to see the reactions to the thoughts that people present and find out if anyone is interested in my thinking. Waiting until the comments are released in a wad/group takes away from the immediate feedback.

HOWEVER, the moderation has greatly increased the quality of posting and greatly lessened the idiotic back and forth insulting mindless comments. This is a huge improvement IMO

Since Althouse and Meade have actual lives outside of this blog (gasp!!) and can't just sit all day long moderating comments, we just have to grin and bear it.

On the list of annoyances, this is a pretty damned low on the list.; 10/20/19, 2:37 PM
wild chicken said...: This is not about Chuck or Inga or ARM but rather about mentally ill commenters who totally lose their shit online.

No way can Ann just let that run.; 10/20/19, 2:38 PM
traditionalguy said...: FTR: I do 100% agree that the new comment moderation method is a winner.
It is MAGA...Making Althouse Great Again.; 10/20/19, 2:38 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Sorry, but I have to delete posts that say names I have worked to eliminate from the entire archive of this blog.

It is hard to convey the help I need from you, and those of you who fail to understand are dispiriting, and I operate on pure spirit here. This isn’t your general purpose stomping ground. Either you are part of what invigorates me or you don’t belong in my house. Don’t complain. Go to Facebook or Twitter or Reddit for general conversation on your own terms. Don’t mooch off the platform I built and I maintain and work hard on!; 10/20/19, 2:40 PM
Darrell said...: Shut off moderation at 10AM, 2PM, and 4PM.
I call that the Doctor Pepper Solution.
Make it so.; 10/20/19, 2:46 PM
Hatari said...: Many comments add to the discussion. Some are just trolling. I enjoy reading the comments as much as the posts. I can see the need for it in extreme situations. I enjoy the blog overall.; 10/20/19, 2:46 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: I like when other commenters are moderated, or even silenced, but I’m not.; 10/20/19, 2:46 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ No. Your other realistic alternative is moving the blog to a platform that allows banning of abusive commenters.”

No, I cannot. This blog cannot be extracted from Blogger. That was determined something like 10 years ago. I would need to start a new blog, but the archive and the tags are very important to me. After 15 years of continuous blogging, this thing is going as long as I can, and I would do this if I lost 90% of my readers or probably if I lost all my readers. So, please, if you don’t like it, stop bringing me down. I already know that the vast majority of people in the world don’t want to read my blog. The only thing that matters to me is that I want to write it.; 10/20/19, 2:49 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: "My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether."

Rabel No. Your other realistic alternative is moving the blog to a platform that allows banning of abusive commenters.

This one and the history will still be here.

This suggestion to move to a more robust platform that can ban or sequester commenters has been made before. And it does seem like a good choice from the standpoint of we the commentators.

However, from the blog owner's point of view, it is actually a lot of work, requires learning curve, and there would be quite a bit of disruption during the change over.

Yes. The history would still be available on the old Blogger site and the old blog could be linked to the new blog with commenting on the old blog just turned off for those who want to look at historical articles and comments.

I'm just guessing, but I get the sense that Althouse considers this project to be "a body of work" and to divide the body into several parts would possibly lose some of the continuity or viability of the "body". Like a piece of art that has been broken into segments.

It was more fun and more immediate without the delays in moderation as I stated in a previous comment. But.....In any case, it isn't our decision. We can input our feelings and desires, but we are not the owner of the project.; 10/20/19, 2:50 PM
FullMoon said...: Worth REPEATING:

Posted by Jon Ericson 1 hour ago. From: NV (US) Report Abuse

So, let me try to explain it to those who missed the fireworks.
The Google Blogger platform, upon which the Althouse blog is built offers 2 types of moderation:
1) None, which is what we had for about 15 years, and
2) Hold all comments until the moderator approves them.
Ms. Althouse was attacked with a low-tech DDOS type of effort from one of the sort-of regulars who insisted that she apologize for something-or-other. This attack consisted of posting many 100 line walls-o-text so that it became very difficult to read, or comment.
Ms. Althouse had no choice but to switch to moderation.
At the same time, Ms. Althouse decided to delete comments from the 2 or 3 bad-faith commenters that had been asked to either cool it or get lost.
This was to get the comments back to legitimate debate, humor, philosophic wanderings, media criticism and so forth that had been diverted at times to voluminous rubber and glue type verbal volleyball matches.
Ms. Althouse has explained here in the comments that there are additionally other concerns that were not divulged and were in her opinion worse.
Ms. Althouse has a life above and beyond a concern for immediate comment approval.
Yes, the moderation kills most back-and-forth, but we don't have the rubber vs. glue pain.
I think we're stuck with it.
It is regrettable.; 10/20/19, 2:50 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ I really hated the 300-comment threads saying you're-stupid-no-you're-stupid. You could always pinpoint the exact location where the thread went to hell. God help me, in past years I participated in some of those clown shows, even started a few, but I always felt unclean afterward. Eventually it made me withdraw from commenting frequently. I think moderation improves discourse here...”

Yep.

“... but like some others I wish updates could happen more quickly.”

It is what it is, but go ahead and wish. I wish there weren’t trolls, but I am not going to put my energy into wishing for a better lot in life.; 10/20/19, 2:52 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ My suggestion would be to have some "unmoderated" cafe posts as a trial run to let the creative juices of the Comnentariat flow a bit. If the knuckleheads wrecked those, well, then we'd have to accept permanent moderation.”

I am not doing any experiments like that anymore. I have closed my door to these people. They can wait and wait for another opening and they can wait until they rot.; 10/20/19, 2:57 PM
Rosa Marie Yoder said...: I rarely comment but do read comments regularly. Not having the back and forth dialogue does interfere with how I use this blog. It's all sad, but I certainly don't blame Althouse for implementing moderation under the circumstances.; 10/20/19, 2:57 PM
FullMoon said...: Evry thing passes
Evry thing changes
Just do what you think you should do.

And who knows, maybe,
Someday, baby,
......; 10/20/19, 2:59 PM
Ann Althouse said...: That’s it for talking about moderation for me. The subject is depressing and it’s making me angry. I’m not going to reply to anything else on the subject. I need to preserve my peace of mind. I am considering ending the comments altogether because of some of the things people are saying. I do take some comfort in the poll results and I will shut up now.; 10/20/19, 3:03 PM
Fernandinande said...: "Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no perfect blog was ever made."; 10/20/19, 3:09 PM
Mark said...: Everyone understands the reasons for moderation anywhere. It's also true that it means that the bad guys won. They were determined to disrupt and destroy the free and free-flowing exchange of ideas -- and they succeeded in doing so with moderation.; 10/20/19, 3:13 PM
FullMoon said...: Go to Facebook or Twitter or Reddit for general conversation on your own terms.

Yeah, that will create appreciation for AA comment section, even moderated.
Disagree in the slightest with group think and get banned and blocked immediately.; 10/20/19, 3:17 PM
bleh said...: How about “it’s a little bit frustrating and I see no point in it”? The first answer is for drama queens and the second answer is too respectful of your choice.; 10/20/19, 3:19 PM
langford peel said...: Please end comments here. You would be doing God’s work.

Thank you.; 10/20/19, 3:19 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Please cheer up Althouse. Most of us here would get depressed if we could not read and/or make comments here. You've provided that for us for a long time and that should make you proud and even a little bit happy. Most of us are very grateful for you and your blog through good times and bad.; 10/20/19, 3:24 PM
bleh said...: My suggestion is to “preclear” non-abusive, non-spammer commenters and require the other comments to undergo moderation.; 10/20/19, 3:32 PM
Mrs. X said...: Thank you for this wonderful blog. I’d be sad if you closed it to comments, but I’d understand. It sounds like a tremendously frustrating undertaking at the moment.; 10/20/19, 3:40 PM
Earnest Prole said...: My comments are generally directed to you and not to other commenters, so I’m neutral on replacing the back-and-forth of the old system. The new system does make it impossible to check links and other html formatting immediately upon posting, which exposes commenters to the fate of Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo (curious if anyone gets that reference).; 10/20/19, 3:43 PM
Fernandinande said...: It could be worse ...

Four dead, dozens injured in violence over Facebook post

... it could be raining.; 10/20/19, 3:45 PM
readering said...: The good is the enemy of the best; 10/20/19, 3:50 PM
James K said...: All these suggestions for other ways to deal with it are asking Althouse to do something she either can't or won't do. My suggestion (at the poll) was to quietly remove it and see whether the trolls come back (my hunch is that they wouldn't, at least not for some time). But she doesn't want to "experiment," so that's that. That 50% of the respondents find it "troublesome" or "frustrating" means that her readership will decline, but apparently that's a loss she is willing to tolerate.; 10/20/19, 3:51 PM
MarkThomas said...: Perhaps it would be a good experiment to close down comments altogether for a short time and see if you derive more satisfaction and peace of mind.; 10/20/19, 3:55 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: I don't understandhow people who freeload on Althouse's blog feel the need to tell Althouse how to run it and criticize the decisions she makes. You have no stake here. She opened her door and you came in and then when she decides she doesn't like how some of the guests are behaving institutes a way to control the flow, and you have the temerity to object? To criticize? To impugn her motives?

I am sad she has to moderate. I do wish blogger gave her more options and it is too bad it can't be ported. The moderation does not affect me much. I am too busy when most posts are started, so when the conversation was free-flowing, I was already too late to have any impact on the conversation, so mostly I just read. I do notice a lessening of the back and forth, but I still value the perspectives of those who comment, and I am glad most of the trolls are gone. There are still some ungrateful commentors persisting, but Althouse seems to be more tolerant of them than necessary, and I applaud her willingness to allow slings and arrows to be lofted er way. I think she is honest in her moderation and does not filter out those who disagree, just those who are abusive. In the past I have stated that I would prefer slow moderation rather than abandoning all comments. I would still read the blog either way, so she would have at least one in her audience.; 10/20/19, 3:58 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: My suggestion is to “preclear” non-abusive, non-spammer commenters and require the other comments to undergo moderation.

Unfortunately, that isn't an option in Blogger. You either allow ALL comments and then have to go back and moderate...what a PITA for the blog owner!!!

OR don't allow any comments at all. Which would make many unhappy.; 10/20/19, 4:01 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "I voted twice, just to see if it's possible. It is."

Maybe you didn't notice the words "We're sorry, you've already voted in this poll!" at the top of the page when you tried a second time. Stop spreading false information about the poll.; 10/20/19, 4:01 PM
MarkThomas said...: I wonder, why is this moderation scheme making you depressed? Or is it just depressing to talk about it? Why the need to talk about it in the first place? I’m also having trouble understanding the need for the poll now after moderation has been in effect for a couple of months already. Is it because the comment numbers are falling? Who cares if they fall if as you say, you blog for your own satisfaction and not for the readers.; 10/20/19, 4:02 PM
Nichevo said...: but letting the truly bad actors come in, do their dance of shitting the place up, and then cleaning up comment by comment is no longer an option.

1/2. It's a big problem though we understand there are reasons.

Sympathy or "empathy" is lacking because you share in the guilt. Chuck is a small-dicked Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction and Inga is hysterical, but you tolerated them just fine. You even wavered on the MEG. It was only when Fen challenged your authoritah that you acted. Yes, he made you do it, but perhaps you made him do it. So the commenters get the benefit of no Chuck, but we lose Fen and you still tolerate a number of other spammers like the execrable ARM, readering, Freder, and anti-de Sitter space.

You want to be in charge. You want to be the Unmoved Mover. Honestly, you have a bit of a God complex. No wonder you hate Him, you want His job.

Either censor more, or cut it out. Fen you can fix by politely asking him to calm downb I'm sure. Chuck probably needs to be arrested unless you prefer to shoot him. Inga has already changed names. MEG when she's on her meds makes cogent remarks sometimes. I don't know who else is out there that's bothering you.

Another rule to salve your amour propre: nobody discusses the hostess. You could also add: no profanity, which would at least elevate the tone of the flamewars.

Or, keep on doing what you're doing.

One other thing: is it possible for you to flag the homepage/title so that at least we KNOW when you are AFK and no comments will be posted for awhile? Maybe a "the blogger will return at 9:00AM CT" or suchlike.; 10/20/19, 4:11 PM
Nichevo said...: Or, as I said before, switch platforms. Richard Fernandez left belmontclub.blogspot.com behind when he went PJ, but you can still search it. Get the execrable Disqus or go to Althou.se as you once mooted.; 10/20/19, 4:12 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: “I am not doing any experiments like that anymore. I have closed my door to these people. They can wait and wait for another opening and they can wait until they rot.”

Why not do these experiments? Is it some Herculean, emotionally draining, task to change the comment status to off/on/moderated?
Isn’t the holistic Blog-with-a-capital-B not merely the words you write but how others react to that writing? Anyone can blather on the Internet (watch, I’m doing it right now) but relatively few can command an interested cohort who keep returning to read and comment.; 10/20/19, 4:22 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "go to Althou.se as you once mooted"

That's the thing that was going on 10 years ago when I found it was impossible to extract the blog from blogger.

Now the blog is 15 years old and it is what it is.

Don't expect Google to add new features to Blogger.

Nothing ever changes here. I'm glad that at least that is true.

Blogger and I are like an old married couple. At some point one of us will die.; 10/20/19, 4:28 PM
tcrosse said...: Moderation here has given me the opportunity to read and comment more widely. Win-win.; 10/20/19, 4:34 PM
Jim Gust said...: "The subject is depressing and it’s making me angry."

Then let me just say thank you for providing this wonderful blog. Please continue on any terms that you find satisfying. I will gratefully accept anything you have to offer. The moderation does not change the fact that this continues to be the most interesting blog I have ever found, and one of the few I visit every day.

Also, I will try harder to remember to launch my intermittent Amazon trips through your portal.; 10/20/19, 4:47 PM
rcocean said...: "Don’t mooch off the platform I built and I maintain and work hard on!"

Exactly! That's what i hate about the goddamn trolls and whiners. There's NOTHING to stop Chuck/Inga/ARm and all their buddies from going to twitter or facebook or their own blog and playing crossfire and "battling each other" till the cows come home. They can even read the althouse blog and comment on the same topics.

Yet weirdly, they never do this. No. The ONLY PLACE they can talk is at Althouse. What BS! Notice how few showed up when JAC was live blogging the D debate.

I've seen the same M.O. On other blogs - including IMDB. The trolls subvert and spam, resist any rules and moderation, and then when the blog goes belly up and someone suggests we all meet at some other place - they're not interested. Mask drop. Their real desire was just wrecking someone else's place.; 10/20/19, 4:47 PM
Francisco D said...: I don't understandhow people who freeload on Althouse's blog feel the need to tell Althouse how to run it and criticize the decisions she makes.

A sense of entitlement, maybe?; 10/20/19, 4:49 PM
rcocean said...: I wrote a lot in the previous post so I'll just summarize:

Get your own place - or shut the fuck up.; 10/20/19, 4:49 PM
rcocean said...: Just keep moderating the way it is now. Its great. The whiners will ALWAYS whine. Don't let them spoil the fun for everyone else.; 10/20/19, 4:50 PM
mockturtle said...: DBQ observes: HOWEVER, the moderation has greatly increased the quality of posting and greatly lessened the idiotic back and forth insulting mindless comments. This is a huge improvement IMO

DEFINITELY!!! Have to agree with this and maybe the benefits outweigh the inconvenience overall.; 10/20/19, 4:51 PM
Gospace said...: Some forums I comment on have volunteer moderators to screen out, well actually, delete bad actors.

Perhaps you could ask if some of your most frequent commenters would like to take up moderating and deleting the more unwanted comments that distract from the discussion at hand.

Set up commenting rules, and let the volunteers delete, delete, delete rulebreaking comments.; 10/20/19, 4:58 PM
stevew said...: Someone should create an AI that could do the moderation in real time while the blog host goes about living her life in between posts. Sould be simple enough, I think - wouldn't require a ton of parameters or complicated analysis logic. I'd do it but don't have the technical knowledge.; 10/20/19, 5:22 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: maybe we can help Ann out--
Discipline and self control in our responses would alleviate much of the need.
Althouse shouldnt have to play den-mother to her readers.
As we have mentioned before, any right-leaning forum/community will be in one way or another 'assigned' disruptors to sow discord. They are not posting to 'win hearts and minds' or convincingly debate topics. They are malicious, are not honest brokers nor operate in good-faith. In certain cases they are bots, not humans.They are there to slide the thread, suck up attention, and break the harmony.
Their power is derived from their target's weakness-- lack of discipline and the perverse aspect in human nature that compels us to touch when we see the "Wet Paint--Do Not Touch" sign.
We feel badly about Fen's meltdown and wish the best for him. He was a decent contributor for a long time. He struggles with depression (yes-- we know:just dont do it here )
He is a soldier, and he will fight. That is his nature, and it may get him into trouble at times.
The immediacy that no moderation provided made the flow of ideas more vibrant and it was interesting to see a topic evolve.
But we understand the need, though it can be a bit stultifying.; 10/20/19, 5:41 PM
Yancey Ward said...: "Sorry, but I have to delete posts that say names I have worked to eliminate from the entire archive of this blog."

I apologize for that- won't happen again.

I will just point out that it is likely that your frequent commenters are grouped in that dismissed 15% (where I voted), and that is sort of supported in the comments above- the people who like the moderation or haven't noticed it are almost all infrequent commenters, or they don't actually read the comments most of the time. So, yes, it probably is a majority of your readers, but probably a minority of your commenters. On pretty much every blog, the people who comment are a fairly small fraction of the actual readers (this is why blogs without comments often still have big visitor numbers).

It sounds like to me that you need a better platform for comments that allows a more fine control on moderation.; 10/20/19, 5:48 PM
Nichevo said...: Gospace, blogger lacks fine-grained permissions so any admin would have too much power. She has Meade. She can't marry everybody.

Ann Althouse said...
"go to Althou.se as you once mooted"

That's the thing that was going on 10 years ago when I found it was

AA, I understood that. Just leave it in place with a pointer to the new site. Think of Blogger as Althouse Volume 1, and Disqus or whatever as Althouse Volume 2.; 10/20/19, 5:51 PM
JGE said...: Please continue to allow comments! I love this blog including the comments. I learn so much from the conversation and variety of perspectives that the commenters bring.; 10/20/19, 5:57 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I’d like to know if the dimension we can’t see was from the organized left, and thus a potentially life changing threat."

Oh, for heaven's sake!

One person went kind of crazy because he made some comments that were deleted. In reaction, he began posting and reposting chains of comments over and over, just dumping trash into the comments purposely to fuck up the works.; 10/20/19, 5:59 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: And right on cue Nichevo comes on and trashes Althouse because they somehow think they can discern Althouse's motives. And even so, what status do they have that gives them any say in the first place. Just come on in, insult the hostess. Your gaucheness is on display for all to see. Life of the party, I am sure. And, look! She even Let you crap on the blog. More grace than you mustered.; 10/20/19, 6:12 PM
madAsHell said...: If you’re moderating, then they’re winning.

Inga wants to control the discourse, or destroy it.; 10/20/19, 6:25 PM
madAsHell said...: P.S. I’m starting to think Drago is a shill for Inga.; 10/20/19, 6:28 PM
chickelit said...: I am not doing any experiments like that anymore. I have closed my door to these people. They can wait and wait for another opening and they can wait until they rot.

The Parable Of The Blogkeeper

Before the blog stands a gatekeeper. To this gatekeeper comes a troll from the city who asks to gain entry into the blog. But the gatekeeper says that she cannot grant him entry at the moment. The troll thinks about it and then asks if he will be allowed to come in sometime later on. “It is possible,” says the gatekeeper, “but not now.” The gate to the blog stands open, as always, and the gatekeeper walks to the side, so the troll bends over in order to see through the gate into the inside. When the gatekeeper notices that, she laughs and says: “If it tempts you so much, try going inside in spite of my prohibition. But take note. I am powerful. And I am only the gatekeeper. But from room to room stand gatekeepers, each more powerful than the other. I cannot endure even one glimpse of the third.” The troll from the city has not expected such difficulties: the blog should always be accessible for everyone, he thinks, but as he now looks more closely at the gatekeeper in her long skirt, at her large head and her coifed blonde hair, he decides that it would be better to wait until he gets permission to go inside. The gatekeeper gives him a stool and allows him to sit down at the side in front of the gate. There he sits for days and years. He makes many attempts to be let in, and he wears the gatekeeper out with his requests. The gatekeeper often interrogates him briefly, questioning him about his homeland and many other things, but they are indifferent questions, the kind great men put, and at the end she always tells him once more that she cannot let him inside yet. The troll, who has equipped himself with many things for his journey, spends everything at her portal, no matter how valuable, to win over the gatekeeper. The latter takes it all but, as she does so, says, “I am taking this only so that you do not think you have failed to do anything.” During the many years the troll observes the gatekeeper almost continuously. He forgets the other gatekeepers, and this first one seems to him the only obstacle for entry into the blog. He curses the unlucky circumstance, in the first years thoughtlessly and out loud; later, as he grows old, he only mumbles to himself. He becomes childish and, since in the long years studying the gatekeeper he has also come to know the fleas in her comment section, he even asks the fleas to help him persuade the gatekeeper. Finally his eyesight grows weak, and he does not know whether things are really darker around him or whether his eyes are merely deceiving him. But he recognizes now in the darkness an illumination which breaks inextinguishably out of the gateway to the blog. Now he no longer has much time to live. Before his death he gathers in his head all his experiences of the entire time up into one question which he has not yet put to the gatekeeper. He waves to her, since he can no longer lift up his stiffening body. The gatekeeper has to bend way down to him, for the great difference has changed things considerably to the disadvantage of the troll. “What do you still want to know now?” asks the gatekeeper. “You are insatiable.” “Everyone strives after the blog” says the man, “so how is it that in these many years no one except me has requested entry?” The gatekeeper sees that the troll is already dying and, in order to reach his diminishing sense of hearing, she shouts at him, “Here no one else can gain entry, since this entrance was assigned only to you. I’m going now to close it.; 10/20/19, 6:40 PM
stephen cooper said...: 4.

This blog is a work of art by the person who runs it.
I would gladly read most of the posts here even if there were no comments at all.
No artist should have to put up with malice from the government or from the private sector.
It is no different if the artist is a comedian or a singer or a blogger --- if someone wants to heckle a comedian or a singer at a nightclub, they should expect a strong rotund bouncer to roll up and ask them to leave, and if a blogger is losing precious time to a subset of commenters, she ought to hire more bouncers.

Hence, I choose door number 4.; 10/20/19, 6:43 PM
Jaq said...: I think it’s fine. I think that the difference is less than people think. Sure, you get Tokyo Rose doing his cut and pastes, but those posts are generally self refuting anyway. But he is happy, so there’s a win.

Remember when Althouse did that post on memorizing by exercising recall instead of repeating the item to be memorized? Well I think that when you get somebody who is not really interested in conversation and never actually responds, that person is then causing readers to each mentally refute him, strengthening their convictions, rather than weakening them, as he intends. It’s like those Doritos bags that have no logo or branding, causing you to recall that they are Doritos, strengthening the brand.

God knows I have been involved in more than my share of these back and forths, but they are not really needed. There’s a lot of perseverating going on that accomplishes nothing.; 10/20/19, 6:49 PM
Kevin said...: Anything that makes Althouse happier improves the blog.

We all benefit from her work and should make it as enjoyable for her as possible.; 10/20/19, 6:51 PM
FullMoon said...: Just keep moderating the way it is now. Its great. The whiners will ALWAYS whine.

The proof is in the pudding.; 10/20/19, 6:57 PM
Bob Boyd said...: I love you what you have created, Althouse. You're an amazing mind. We are fortunate to have this window into it.; 10/20/19, 6:57 PM
mockturtle said...: The proof is in the pudding.

No, no, no! THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING. Get it right! ;-); 10/20/19, 7:38 PM
rhhardin said...: It's very unfair to lump grumblers in with whiners.; 10/20/19, 7:50 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: The proof is in the pudding.

No, no, no! THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING. Get it right! ;-)

"The proof IS the pudding" --Frank LLoyd Wright*

*just kiddin'; 10/20/19, 7:54 PM
langford peel said...: Killing the comments section will shortly lead to killing the blog. Thanks. It is long past time.

If a bear shits in the woods and nobody steps in it did it really happen?; 10/20/19, 7:55 PM
Paddy O said...: Althouse, moderation on or off doesn't really matter to me as I don't comment near as much as I used to. It's a sad reality that the early mix of "experts on just about everything" has long dissipated, but that's life. Places change.

I still very much appreciate what you've been doing for 15 years. Even when I disagree, it's thought-provoking, and you've exposed me to some ideas, books, etc. I wouldn't have found otherwise, which have then shown up in my writing and teaching.

Sorry for the bother, for the folks who throw trash in your virtual yard that caused you to put up a fence. I love your sentiment about writing because you enjoy it and writing as long as you can because you value it, no matter the audience. Thanks for what you've done and what you're committed to doing.; 10/20/19, 8:02 PM
FullMoon said...: No, no, no! THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING. Get it right! ;-)
10/20/19, 7:38 PM

Yeah, I know, I was just messin' with ya.

mockturtle said...

(Farmer said) The actual proverb is the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Thank you, Farmer. That always drives me nuts.;-)
11/13/18, 12:18 PM; 10/20/19, 8:06 PM
Michael K said...: I almost quit last spring.

Moderation removes the conversation. It will be necessary for the blogress but it diminishes the little virtual community,. It's too bad but communities all mover the country are dying.

There are other blogs, When Cathy Seipp died we lost a community. A group of commenters in LA went to lunch a few times. By no means were we all on the same said of politics. It's just a lot harder in the era of insanity we live in now.; 10/20/19, 8:23 PM
mockturtle said...: I'll echo the many sentiments lauding Althouse for her courage and persistence as well as her excellence. For a liberal to open up her blog to a mostly right-wing commentariat takes guts. Keep up the good work! Hope we don't lose commenters, though. I know it's difficult for buwaya, being in Europe now, but I'd miss his posts. We may not always like what he says but he says it so exceedingly well! ;-) Both the blog and its commentary are terrific and thought-provoking.; 10/20/19, 8:59 PM
Drago said...: madAsHell: "P.S. I’m starting to think Drago is a shill for Inga."

Yeah, that makes alot of sense......not.; 10/20/19, 9:06 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: I have cut back my visits by about 75%; 10/20/19, 9:07 PM
Mcbean. Coco Mcbean. said...: Have you considered using something like disqus? It can be installed on you existing blog, and allows for auto approving trusted commenters, which I assume most of your regulars would be. I don’t love the threaded comments, but everything has drawbacks in life. I’m sorry that you’ve had too deal with all that, it feels very invasive and personal when spammers and trolls post on your website.; 10/20/19, 9:17 PM
Roughcoat said...: I'm in favor of moderation. I like it when the big mouths at the bar get the bum's rush out the door for being obnoxious. It isn't what they say that irks me, it's the neediness behind it, the emotional immaturity.; 10/20/19, 9:25 PM
Nichevo said...: Wa St Blogger said...
And right on cue Nichevo comes on and BLABBITY BLAH STOP TALKING I CONFESS

1. Who are you?
2. Sorry not sorry for offending you. If I knew you existed, I would take care to offend you either more or less.
3. As you adequately state, AA permits opposing viewpoints. I'm better aware than you of her tolerance.
4. AA needs to be interrogated, and sometimes speculated on, because otherwise her sphinxlike affect defeats understanding. Put simpler for your sake, you want a chick to work her hips, sometimes you gotta smack her on the ass. P.S. THEY LET YOU DO IT.
5. This place is not about status. Or is it?; 10/20/19, 9:31 PM
The Godfather said...: @Althouse says: "Either you are part of what invigorates me or you don’t belong in my house." To someone who praised this blog for creating "a community that talked to each other", she said "Yet you are still here and displaying your lack of compassion for my predicament and unappreciative of what I have given for 15 years". She says that the "only thing that matters to me is that I want to write" this blog, and she would probably do so "if I lost all my readers".

I have enjoyed reading this blog for ten years or more and (sometimes) the comments, but it seems that people like me "don't belong" here, "bring[] [her] down" and lack "compassion" for her. So, as you requested, good-by Prof. Althouse, it's been nice knowing you.; 10/20/19, 9:56 PM
Original Mike said...: "...your lack of compassion for my predicament and unappreciative of what I have given for 15 years..."

That's simply not true.; 10/20/19, 10:00 PM
gpm said...: FullMoon's account at 2:50 PM matches my understanding, based on my observation, of how we got to where we are. And while I have seen Althouse say something a bit different at least once, that particular "meltdown" (I could think of some other words or phrase) sure seems like the straw. While the rest was annoying, the meltdown made the situation intolerable for readers. Surprised at the comments by those who were unaware of what happened.

Don't remember exactly when I started here, but it was well before the 2008 election.

Moderation has had little direct effect on me, first, because I rarely comment (never on political stuff, occasionally on cultural, historical, or similar stuff (or Chicago stuff!!!), and I think I maybe once attracted a response from Althouse), and, second, because the posts and comments are mostly early in the day and I never get around to looking until early evening. Like my old man coming home from work late afternoon and only then reading the SunTimes (Chicago morning newspaper) back in the 60s (I'm just about a month short of being three years younger than Althouse).

Indirectly affects me in a couple of ways. On the plus side, in eliminating all the dreck that Althouse always objected to. On the negative side, in probably having some adverse effect on the quality of the back-and-forth commentary in the short range and perhaps leading to a decline in participation (a "gravitational pull" to a "downward spiral"??) on the longer term.

Just reminded of this quote attributed to Keynes recently through a Jeopardy question: "In the long run, we're all dead." But may we continue to enjoy this for some time before the death of either us or the blog.

--gpm; 10/20/19, 10:01 PM
Sprezzatura said...: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YBHQbu5rbdQ; 10/20/19, 10:01 PM
Sebastian said...: "Nothing ever changes here. I'm glad that at least that is true."

But it has!

I regret the need for moderation but I appreciate your coping with it and want to encourage you to keep it up.

For now, the comments do add something significant to the blog, even if real conversation is harder. You have created a virtual community, and while I understand that is not the most important thing about it for you, it does keep it vital.

I also understand your need for peace of mind. You don't need the hassle. In fact, I view the hassle as a manifest injustice, entirely undeserved and destructive. May the guilty parties reflect upon their sins.; 10/20/19, 10:07 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Althouse isn’t a math person.

If a person did asses importance re every comment here over the entire blog history v rock stars playing a game, what would a math person conclude?

Anywho, why did Meadehouse stop publishing some of the items purchased w/ the amazon portal?

Ha ha.; 10/20/19, 10:09 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I knew comments were going to end shortly after I garnered me my Guildofcannonballs tag, that's how things go for my kind.

Still, it's better than being Hillary! or a Bush.

And like the fella in Twin Peaks said, Althouse "had the patience of a Saint." In many ways Althouse and Trump are similar in drawing out the worst in some people and the very best in others.; 10/20/19, 10:27 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Althouse is into merc-Ing energy.

Small fish re pond size thing.; 10/20/19, 10:45 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Small fish are funny to me. Which is nice.

The other sort rock.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1TC02VaB1Rw

IMHO; 10/20/19, 10:47 PM
Rocko said...: I gave up a long time ago. Other sites with the same "prove your humanity" roadblock are far less trouble. The Althouse site invariably forced me through several iterations so I saved myself the trouble for the future. For the record: I am not a robot.

Well, damn, just google now? Who knew after all theose traffic light pictures which drove me away?; 10/20/19, 10:50 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Jebhouse; 10/20/19, 10:52 PM
Sprezzatura said...: America First = https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=slCOP4wypgM

Works fer blog comments, too.

IMHO; 10/20/19, 11:07 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I lurked here for years before I wrote my first comment. It had nothing to do with being shy- I always limited the blogs on which I interact personally to a small number. Usually 3 to 4 at a time. I just happened to lose the ability to comment at Megan McCardle's site when she left Bloomberg and went to WaPo (I had followed her from her original blog to The Atlantic, The Economist, and Bloomberg), but the comments sections at WaPo are just too massive to bother with, and the quality is just hideous anyway. I don't like blogs where the comments sections are over 500+ regularly- it is just too hard to follow any conversation when it gets that big. That is about the only reason I would moderate a blog comments section- to cut down on the sheer size.; 10/21/19, 12:05 AM
walter said...: Last debate you sent us to jaltcoh for diligent live-blogging/immediate posting which incidentally informed commenters they could be banned for misbehaving.
I thought we were told the platform doesn't allow banning.
The new comment wag reads:
"Comments do not publish immediately. We're not trying to inhibit free discussion, just to stop a few people who've shown they don't deserve access to this forum. We usually put through comments several times a day, but sometimes hours go by, a little patience is required."
The plus side is you reduce the "dreaded back and forth" with that sort of delay.
The downside is you reduce the desired back and forth with that sort of delay.
You see this when you have to suss out who is responding to what..which may be 12 posts or more back.
Who's winning against the trolls?; 10/21/19, 12:18 AM
Ray - SoCal said...: Thanks Anne!

I deeply appreciate all the work you do on your personal art that you kindly share and curate.

It’s sad you have to moderate, but it’s a necessity.

I hope you can delegate the moderating.

Minor Request - I would appreciate more comments from Meade! He’s insightful.; 10/21/19, 1:08 AM
tim maguire said...: How many of the “didn’t notice” voters don’t comment?

This poll should be limited to people who comment.; 10/21/19, 5:47 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "How many of the “didn’t notice” voters don’t comment? This poll should be limited to people who comment."

No way. That was half the point of my survey! This blog is for all of the readers, and people who comment may be out of touch with what's going on here and what I am doing. The large numbers on option 3 should have gotten you to see more of my perspective, but instead you magnified the importance of commenters within to the larger set of readers. Many readers don't go to the comments page. I see that in the statistics. And many people who might read the comments are put off if they see the same names going back and forth in a personal way. The moderation makes comments more readable to those who want to read. To prioritize the experience for the small subset of readers who comment makes no sense from my point of view. And I thought the survey as written would help commenters see what I see. So I am disappointed that you came out of the survey experience with the same old idea that the commenting readers are all that matter!; 10/21/19, 6:47 AM
MayBee said...: Realize that you don't see the situation from my side, so you do not know the dimension of the problem I needed to solve. I understand your wish and I share it, but the real world has something else in mind for me. My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether. Moderation is distracting and time consuming, but letting the truly bad actors come in, do their dance of shitting the place up, and then cleaning up comment by comment is no longer an option.

I do realize this, which is why I'm only saying something because you asked.; 10/21/19, 6:54 AM
MayBee said...: I also want to add that you are brave, and I thank you for this blog.; 10/21/19, 7:42 AM
Ann Althouse said...: By the way, if you are wondering when comments are going to get moderated through and you're wasting time checking and rechecking, use the option of checking the box that says "Email follow-up comments to" your email address (just below the comments window).; 10/21/19, 8:16 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Thanks for all the kind comments!

I should say that more and not focus on the stuff that keeps going over the same asked-and-answered issues or that won't look at the larger picture.; 10/21/19, 8:17 AM
Rusty said...: As I have said often before. thank you for letting me play in your yard. You're alright. For a dame.
One thing I have noted is that a lot of the "commenters" that added to the tedium are gone., Well almost all gone.
Thanks again. Now don't get cocky.; 10/21/19, 8:29 AM
John Borell said...: "I understand your wish and I share it, but the real world has something else in mind for me. My only realistic alternative is to end commenting altogether."

I would really, really hate to see comments end. I do miss some of the back and forth, but I also do not miss the directional crap that some of the comments were going. Althouse readers should be better than this. But sometimes, some readers are not.

So if moderated comments are the alternative to no comments, I'll take moderated comments every day of the week.

This is her blog; she's Queen of the blog. We're all her subjects. Willing subjects, I'd say, or we would not be here, many of us for years and years now.

Sometimes I get sad that someday this will all end. Someday she'll stop blogging (either by choice or not). So for now, I just want to enjoy, day after day, my absolute favorite blog.; 10/21/19, 8:33 AM
stlcdr said...: Moderation is fine. This isn’t a chat room.

Althouse posts interesting stuff. Respond to that interesting stuff. Moderation forces people to address the stuff, directly or to a previous comment, with greater thought.

If I recall, Althouse prefers commenters to stay on topic; I think moderation reinforces that. It makes for much more interesting reading.; 10/21/19, 8:34 AM
caplight45 said...: I go back to not quite the very beginning. I used to comment a lot years ago. It was a different group like Paddy O said. I mostly throw a comment in every once in a great while to let Ann and Meade know I'm still here.

I continue to be astounded at the breadth and depth of the Professor's knowledge, interests and wisdom. I have never seen another blogger that can touch her. She is a one of a kind. Thank you for all you do for us. You are a gift.

To the 15% I might suggest that better commenting on your part might make more folks read the comments.

Again Ann thank you for all you do for us.; 10/21/19, 8:41 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: By the way, if you are wondering when comments are going to get moderated through and you're wasting time checking and rechecking, use the option of checking the box that says "Email follow-up comments to" your email address (just below the comments window).

That might work if the Blogger comments were threaded. Then you would get an email IF someone responded to your comment or responded in the part of the thread that you were interested in.

BUT....when we get this back and forth (which thankfully has lessened) then I am going to get hundreds of "follow up emails". Every INGA email. All the angry FEN emails...gah!!!!

Plus I keep my email accounts off line most of the time and only check a few times a day. So there really wouldn't be any difference, except a ton of useless emails to delete.

Keep it the way you have it now. It is your blog anyway :-); 10/21/19, 8:54 AM
Kevin said...: Let's be real.

The people who were banned were first told what they were doing and asked to stop.

Then they were politely asked to leave.

Then they chose to act out in ways which made the larger community unable to function.

And most of them to this day still think they did nothing wrong.; 10/21/19, 9:03 AM
Kevin said...: This poll should be limited to people who comment.

Shorter Tim Maguire: We should keep polling until we get the results I want!; 10/21/19, 9:05 AM
Kevin said...: Tragedy of the commons: a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users, by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action.; 10/21/19, 9:06 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: I think it's fine. I like not scrolling through scads of petty back and forth.; 10/21/19, 9:33 AM
purplepenquin said...: It is ironic how someone takes great pride in being cruel to others yet whines & pouts when others are unkind to her.

At least, "ironic" in the way Alanis Morissette defines the word.; 10/21/19, 10:22 AM
Known Unknown said...: It's Civility Bullshit.

I used to comment several times a day on several differing posts. Now, this is it. My lone comment for today. The comments section is calcified and dreadfully boring.; 10/21/19, 10:34 AM
Known Unknown said...: Just post a link to Blog Comment KIll File at the top of the site. (This is the Chrome version, there are versions for other browsers)

It allows users to permanently HUSH another commenter or hide a particular comment with one click.; 10/21/19, 10:54 AM
vanderleun said...: It has done only one thing. Every time I encounter I think, "Oh dear, now Ann's become dull."; 10/21/19, 11:39 AM
vanderleun said...: And now you've become even more dull.

"The large numbers on option 3 should have gotten you to see more of my perspective, but instead you magnified the importance of commenters within to the larger set of readers. Many readers don't go to the comments page. I see that in the statistics. And many people who might read the comments are put off if they see the same names going back and forth in a personal way. The moderation makes comments more readable to those who want to read. "

This is just lawyeresque blather.; 10/21/19, 11:40 AM
Jaq said...: “I should say that more and not focus on the stuff that keeps going over the same asked-and-answered issues or that won't look at the larger picture.”

‘Perseverate' should be the word of the day sometime on this blog, because many commenters are guilty of it, including myself at times.; 10/21/19, 12:55 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: To prioritize the experience for the small subset of readers who comment makes no sense from my point of view.

I understand what you're saying here, but this also makes me kind of sad. Aren't we your favorites, because we interact more? Have personalities? Are individuals? Bring something to the table other than clicks? I both literally mean this, and don't.; 10/21/19, 3:28 PM
stevew said...: At or very near the end of this thread I will say that only these changes have occurred since the Imposition of Moderated Comments:

1. The bad actors attacking our host and other commenters are gone.
2. The 'conversation', such as it is, is now spread out over a longer time.
3. Individual comments are less trite and gotcha focused.
4. Individual comments are better thought out and expressed.

The folks interested in the issues posted and the comments offered in good faith seem to be adapting quite well.; 10/21/19, 5:30 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ I understand what you're saying here, but this also makes me kind of sad. Aren't we your favorites, because we interact more? Have personalities? Are individuals? Bring something to the table other than clicks? I both literally mean this, and don't.”

First, I care a lot about the invisible readers. I know they are much more numerous than the commenters. They are real to me even though they reveal nothing to me.

Second, the commenters are a mixed bag. Some are fantastic. I married one! Some are dull and some are horrible and have deliberately hurt me and threatened me.; 10/21/19, 7:46 PM
walter said...: What you say Drago?; 10/21/19, 11:47 PM
stephen cooper said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/22/19, 9:30 PM