On Saturday, a few confrontations broke out in the park as the rally began, but the far-right groups eventually moved behind a police line and were separated from the counterprotesters by a wide gap that officers worked aggressively to maintain.... At least two of those walking with the militia members appeared to have been hit with white substances resembling milkshakes.... Officers intervened in occasional skirmishes at or near the park and seized a stun gun, bear spray, a shield, and metal and wooden poles from the protesters, the police said..... The rally itself was largely uneventful. But more fights broke out after the groups had dispersed and roved the downtown streets in smaller packs, with tense and sometimes bloody exchanges flaring up between demonstrators....
August 18, 2019
"Officials declined to discuss whether the people arrested — on charges including disorderly conduct and unlawful use of a weapon — were affiliated with right-wing groups or with Antifa."
13 were arrested, according to "Portland Protests: Far-Right Groups and Antifa Face Off as Trump Weighs In/Conservative groups are urging the United States to label Antifa a domestic terrorist group. President Trump said the city was “being watched very closely" (NYT). I'm pretty sure right-wingers will assume that those arrested were Antifa, that the Portland police wouldn't have declined to discuss it if they'd arrested Proud Boys. But maybe it's the city's policy to refrain from purporting to know the politics of individuals arrested for disorderly conduct.
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1 – 200 of 219 Newer› Newest»the far-right groups eventually moved behind a police line
Or, they’re not named because the press has shown bias before and if it really was the alt-right, it would be plastered in headlines coast to coast.
It’s Portland.
We know dorsey deplatformed lenihan for point out black bloc links to the press.
Blog wont take american thinker link.
Portland wouldn’t be dealing with this stupidity if they had a real mayor and poice chief that protected the public.
Place the blame where it belongs.
Conspiracy is the only realistic world view.
We, the public, are always substantially out of the loop on everything.
Maybe we will find out pertinent information, much later, and partially.
Discuss, Mark.
"Let me guess, this comment will be deleted as you are a proponent of free apeech"
Let me guess. It won't.
Portland is a city that I would avoid with the exception of the airport when we go to visit family. Plus the traffic isn terrible.
Mark said...
the far-right groups eventually moved behind a police line
Speaking of conspiracy theories, I thought it was "back and to the left"?
"...Back and to the left."
Historically, Portland was one of the more openly racist cities in American History.
No Blacks at Night
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town
Just watch some of the videos. I don't know what the Right-wings groups are attempting, becuase like most Right-wingers, I don't know any of these people, nor follow their movements, but Antifa is pretty clear and open about wanting to do violence, and they do. Their message is anger, violence, and destruction and they have nothing positive to offer, and a lot of them are just doing it for fun. The fun of beating people five or ten on one with little risk in return. In other words, violent cowards.
I'm trying to figure out what Althouse said that set Mark to snarling.
The New York Times endorses antifa by referring to it in print as antifascist. Just like that without quotation marks, implying that our leading newspaper believes the people attacked by these thugs are actual fascists.
I wish someone would inform DJT as this would make a nice tweet subject.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/us/portland-oregon-protests.html
Blogger Jeff Brokaw said...
Portland wouldn’t be dealing with this stupidity if they had a real mayor and poice chief that protected the public.
Place the blame where it belongs.
Hey Snowflake. It's a free fucking country and people are going to fight it out by all means possible. That's the American way. Instead, you people crawl into a hole filled up with guns and rant about how you will be the vanguard of the next civil war. At the same time, you complain that liberals don't play fair.
The mayor should be fired. The city would be better off without any mayor at all.
Boss Tweed: What's next, dead politicians?
Bill the Butcher: I could spare half a dozen of you......easier than I can spare him.
Still, I think it shows dash. Give the boy some time, we'll settle with a good dust up.
"At my challenge, by the ancient laws of combat, we are met at this chosen ground, to settle for good and all who holds sway over the five points: us natives, born rightwise to this fine land, or the foreign hordes defiling it."
you dudes are showing your autocrat genes
EDH provided the QED.
Feeding into the conspiracy theories of racist white right groups.
Both groups consist of white people, so both groups are racists, by MSM definition.
Let me guess, this comment will be deleted as you are a proponent of free [s]peech
Actually AA is proponent of free speech and FWIW I congratulate her on that.
I recall seeing video about a year ago wherein a Portland cop sat on his motorcycle and watched as several masked (not anti-)fascist goons harassed drivers in an intersection and assaulted an old white-supremacy-haired guy.
It’s fun to speculate about what really happened, but we have no way to get honest, reliable, transparent reporting in any story involving Antifa violence. There is no such thing in today’s media landscape,
MSM journalists are overwhelmingly supportive of them are will not ever frame any story to reflect poorly on them.
Like San Francisco and Los Angeles and Seattle, the people who built Portland no longer live there, or rather their descendants are gone, and their current population is vastly different.
This was a rather striking revelation that came to me after a few years in San Francisco. Everything man-made that is admirable in it came from what amounts to a lost race. Its a bit like some fantasy story, of some lesser breed of barbarians living in the glorious ruins left by a vanished high civilization.
Mark
Give us a link to Proud Boys bearing Antifa. Thanks.
Beating. Not bearing
From what I understand it was Antifa vs. Proud Boys. One thing that you'll never see happen are Proud Boys smashing and burning cars, or breaking windows. There is a difference, and it is a big difference.
Howard, There are more than enough well-armed and trained people on the right and center to eliminate these assholes overnight, but those capable people, being mostly conservative, respect the law, freedom, and human life, even of those we disagree with. That's the reason that option is not deployed and won't be. We choose dialogue and law and order over the unlawful, unAmerican methods you and yours immediately deploy without conscience.
I noticed all the media reports say 'Right-wing' - & the antifa fascists are left out by name. Hack press calls them "counter protestors"
heh - Antifa went from democrat approved freedom fighters to - leftist radicals who cannot be named.
Ah, the passive voice again. "Fights broke out" a variation on the standard "violence broke out", whenever antifa is involved.
Never - As far as i know - has the MSM accused or written of left-wing groups or antifa ATTACKING trump supporters or the Right-wingers. Nope just "violence breaks out" or "Neo-nazis attack". Its their way of encouraging Antifa.
The asshole leftwing brown-shirt fascist antifa thugs in masks who beat up Andy Ngo were never caught. How convenient.
We know they're left wing because they are unnamed. If they were right wingers they'd be called that. We all know that. Just like we know that if some criminal kills someone in NYC or Detroit and they're labeled "Youths" or unidentified by race, you know they're black.
Its like living in the USSR and reading Pravda.
It's OK to beat up a gay man who isn't on the side of the leftwing fascist media.
Howard advocates for street violence and chaos. Smart.
You going to invite that violence to your neighborhood and watch property values go down?
I wish I could be as smart as you!
Original Mike: "I'm trying to figure out what Althouse said that set Mark to snarling."
Althouse failed to immediately assume that antifa is a freedom loving association of folks that just want to buy the world a coke and keep it company.
The dude antifa hammer-attacked was asian, so, you know, obviously a white supremacist.
Just like Andy Ngo.
Just outlaw masks. Why are Antifa allowed to publicly demonstrate behind masks and engage in violence? Portland used to be a normal American town slightly liberal. Now its weridosville. That's because the nice/normal liberals can NEVER fight the Left. All their energy - if they have any - is directed at hating those "damn right-wingers".
" Its a bit like some fantasy story, of some lesser breed of barbarians living in the glorious ruins left by a vanished high civilization."
That is how it looks, and I think how it actually is. It just wasn't a violent overthrow. It was an inheritance by lazy, spoiled descendants. Like many family businesses built by an industrious owner then handed down to children without the same values and ethics, it stops growing and simply rots away.
Many of our intuitions are in that late state now, most obvious is higher education.
Tonight on Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, and Rachel Maddow- an interview with a masked antifa freedom fighter.
What's it like to smash a bike lock into the head of a deplorable?
*loud cheers and clapping*
Officers intervened in occasional skirmishes at or near the park and seized a stun gun, bear spray, a shield, and metal and wooden poles from the protesters, the police said..... The rally itself was largely uneventful.
Skirmish: When a violent mob of 20+ chase two individuals for several blocks, attacking them from behind as they flee for safety with no police to protect them.
That feeling of a vanished higher culture can also be considered retrospectively.
You have to know the place to get the feeling, but it comes to you.
Consider the Haight (and elsewhere in San Francisco) in the 1960's. Those low-or-no rent hippie pads in the Haight, were largely in subdivided Victorian-Edwardian homes, "painted ladies". This was, when built, a very upscale neighborhood of what were then suburban villas, homes for wealthy families of 120 years ago. These are lovely things, inside and out, made for a cultured people, the masters of an imperial city.
But these people are gone, and were gone even sixty years ago, and their homes became what amounted to slum housing for the drifting refuse of this country.
Tides turned and antiques were re-valued, all this was refurbished and now sells for silly money. But the people who buy these homes now, though similarly placed, have nothing else in common with the people who built or commissioned them.
I suspect there is a back-of-the-mind feeling among the new people that they are inferior to their predecessors. They can recognize and purchase beauty, but they cannot create it. They are art collectors, not artists, nor proper patrons of artists.
I suspect that there are many in the Antifa movement who share the same justified disillusion as some on the right, and even share the same enimies, but they all mistakenly blame racism, when what has actually failed them is a waist-deep quicksand of institutional incompetence that has flooded over our entire culture except for a few pockets of sustained quality, which they now must destroy as well out of pure envy.
What buyaya said @8:38AM & bagoh20 said @ 8:51AM^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Howard, that was not an endorsement of the street thuggery that has been tolerated by the "autocratic" public officials in Portland, but a warning about its consequences.
Oh and not to leave out my man AllenS@ 8:41AM!
"Let me guess. It won't."
You guessed wrong.
I deleted him because I clicked on the name and got "Profile Not Available".
And isn't that odd, because the name was "Mark" and it appeared right under the comment from a "Mark" who does have a profile when you click on his name. That's pretty unfair to the legit Mark!
There is a trope in Ayn Rand, explicit in "Atlas Shrugged", wherin the degenerate powers that be (it is insufficiently inclusive to call them "the left"; Rand wasn't that foolish), wherin capabilities, infrastructure, institutions, industries, the man-made social patrimony, are mistaken for some natural resource.
To a great degree this is the local attitude among the San Franciscans towards their surroundings. Its as if they have found dwellings in caves, or among termite mounds. It seems discomforting to think that there were others, vastly different other humans, in there before them.
I want to know how many of each gender were arrested....
So do these proud boys, or whatever the hell they are, go to Portland to demonstrate just to bring the antifa fascists out for a fight? Or is there some other reason for their drama?
"I'm trying to figure out what Althouse said that set Mark to snarling."
That refers to the "Mark" I took out, not the Mark with the first comment that is still up there.
The one I took out didn't make any sense.
Its fun watching old movies and seeing what great places LA and SF were back in the 40's and 50's and even 60s'. Its that kind of fascination that fueling the QT's new movie about 60's Hollywood.
Althouse needs to work on her marksmanship.
Haha.
In a more or less pertinent aside, the two latest essays by Angelo Codevilla -
https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/06/igniting-civil-war/
https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/12/the-white-supremacy-hoax/
Codevilla is not getting less pessimistic.
Too many people are playing with fire in a land soaked in gasoline.
Howard is another one of those unworthy grandchildren of the Founders of Boston and Lexington.
buwaya is right about what we see now in California and Massachusetts. Even Los Angeles was beautiful when I arrived in 1956. The fraternity house I lived in on West Adams Blvd was a magnificent late Victorian mansion, a wedding present to the original owner. That whole street was lined with these gorgeous mansions. All gone.
I lived one year on West Cedar Street in Beacon Hill. Across the street was a three story brownstone that a young couple was rehabing, which included gutting it to the walls. They had bought it from the city for a dollar. A block south is where John Kerry, gigolo extraordinaire lives.
Althouse: "That refers to the "Mark" I took out, not the Mark with the first comment that is still up there."
To make Mark matters more muddled, we have a liberal Mark and a conservative Mark as well.
The sloth, selfishness, self-destruction and un-addressed rot of our current culture may be simply the next step after any period of uncommon success, which is what America has had for generations now. It was our boomer generation that rode the wave as it crested. There will always be families, towns, maybe even entire states that figure out how to keep it alive, but things like IT, or social media as industries to employ and carry a people are mere shadows of what we had before, and the advancements there are relatively incremental, not really revolutionary nor powerful agents of real change, and they do not inspire or improve our lives in substantial ways. We simply have more communication, but not better understanding. Like a high speed train that goes in a circle. It's much faster, but...
Let me endorse Bagoh20 and Buwaya's observations. We also see it in things that can't be built today, or goals that can't be accomplished. There is an emphasis on fantasies, societal and otherwise, while physical and moral civilization rot away. Energy, one of the US's core characteristics, has bled away. We are metaphorical trust fund babies spending down the balance, rather than living off the interest.
"A great deal of ruin in a nation."
"You guessed wrong."
Well, not the first time.
"That's pretty unfair to the legit Mark!"
I changed my name when a nut started posting here as 'Mike'.
I still don't understand what he was complaining about, though he has never been rational.
"I want to know how many of each gender were arrested...."
We can't even agree on how many lines we need on that spreadsheet. It's possible the results would be dozens arrested, with one of each gender.
Things are going badly because of the organized Left. thinking its due to some big generalized historical cause is simply avoiding the issue. that may explain the lack of resistance, but not the real reason.
I've begun reading Rick Atkinson's first volume on the American Revolution. Early on he comments about the role George III played in feeding the revolution. Atkinson notes that other populations, like the Irish, suffered far worse deprivation by the English but the American colonists were "heavily armed." That was why the result was not that of the Irish, who starved or fled.
Some people aren't ideological. Scott Adams is a perfect example. He's super-smart but he can't truly grasp either religion or political ideologues. You can just imagine him back in 1917, trying to convince Lenin that his Bolshevism made no sense because he could make a lot more $$$ as a capitalist.
And this is going to continue aided and abetted by he leaders of the left/Democratic Party. Head line from this AM.
"Bernie Sanders Vows to Go to ‘War with White Nationalism and Racism’ as President"
"Tapper asked, “You told me on this show two weeks ago that you believe President Trump is a white nationalist. Given that, do you think that it’s a racist act to cast a vote for President Trump in 2020?”
Buttigieg said, “Well, at best, it means looking the other way on racism."
Cuomo and CNN support leftwing antifa violence.
I note the media never ever calls the "antifa" crowd as far left, but always calls the right as "far right". As Daffy Duck says, they're "dethpicable".
"maybe it's the city's policy to refrain from purporting to know the politics of individuals arrested for disorderly conduct"
Maybe! Then again, maybe not!
What, exactly, constitutes "far right"?
"What, exactly, constitutes "far right"?"
You and me.
True point re the Irish.
They had many Lexington & Concords, but unfortunately for them they weren't victorious.
The United States is founded on what amounted to a successful peasant revolt. Everything else is rationalization and superstructure.
Your real declaration of independence and constitution are written in gunpowder.
"That's because the nice/normal liberals can NEVER fight the Left. All their energy - if they have any - is directed at hating those "damn right-wingers"."
Just vanity. Living in a tolerant society has led them to believe that they can corrode any ideology.
Scott Adams says it's a sporting event and it's scored by who can get who to do the most that's outrageously bad on video. That's why they won't say who won. Because of who won.
Buwaya asserts: The United States is founded on what amounted to a successful peasant revolt.
Of course, we didn't have a 'peasant' class but the Revolution was initiated, as are nearly all revolutions, by the educated bourgeoisie.
Not even the reporters cited in Hot Air like Andy Ngo are clear about what is going on in these situations. It appears that there is a ralley in a park by a group like the Proud Boys and then antifa "protesters" show up to protest the " fascists". Who are the aggressors in confrontations? Because the antifa people are the "protesters" it appears to me that the implements of harm were taken from them. Is that right?
Who needs the police to say anything when the videos are online?
I'm guessing they're antifa because all of the reports of people who were wounded or hit by non-consensual fighting were non-antifa. I'm just Occam's Razoring it.
There have been many European peasant revolts. Some have been highly organized and had great tactical competence. But in every case they failed due to logistical problems.
There is no good English history of the Spanish Carlist wars, especially not of the second (or third, depending on how you count) 1872-76. This was yet again a peasant revolt, made possible, interestingly, by the presence of a huge surplus of American arms purchased by France, in desperation, during the Franco-German war of 1870. Post 1871 there was a large stock of relatively modern rifles and ammunition, available cheap, and handy to the rebels, as it was easy to get them over the Pyrenees.
The Basque leadership made a strategic purchase in France of some tens of thousands of Allin conversion Springfields, in .50-70 Government, plus all their available ammunition. The Basques had an eye towards standardization, which made sense given that France had aquired a zoo of disparate armaments. In that bazaar they made a logical selection. It was this purchase that made the revolt possible in the first place, and put their forces in a state of parity with those of the Spanish government (which was using Remington rolling-blocks; both sides were armed by Americans!).
The Basques were eventually defeated mainly because they ran out of ammunition.
Its an interesting story.
"It's a free fucking country and people are going to fight it out by all means possible. That's the American way."
-- This is a thorough misunderstanding of American culture which is built on a live-let-live attitude and creates a variety of institutions from Home Owners Associations to *entire freaking states* because people DIDN'T want to "fight it out." Resorting to violence is a sign of a breakdown in American structure -- not a reinforcement of it.
Of course, we didn't have a 'peasant' class but the Revolution was initiated, as are nearly all revolutions, by the educated bourgeoisie.
They took over but the original fighters were ordinary people. Tavern owners, teamsters, etc.
Ben Franklin had been in London for years as a representative of Pennsylvania. Toward the end, he was abused and humiliated by the North government and radicalized. He began as a Loyalist but was driven away by the folly of the government egged on by George II.
He ended up in Paris, getting the French to support the rebels.
"It’s fun to speculate about what really happened, but we have no way to get honest, reliable, transparent reporting in any story involving Antifa violence."
-- Which we won't get so long as they are allowed to threaten reporters with impunity. Any right leaning group that was violent with reporters wouldn't still be being treated with kid gloves by authorities and the press.
Your revolution was not initiated by the educated bourgeoisie but by the armed villagers of the hinterlands of Boston, who spontaneously organized themselves in the course of a morning, without the aid of any bourgeoisie.
With that victory you had a war. Without that victory no bourgeois intellectual would have had anything.
Portland-whitest large city in the US. More diversity in Salt Lake City.
Concrete resist milkshakes? Never heard of them.
The Basques were eventually defeated mainly because they ran out of ammunition.
The American Civil War would have ended a year sooner if the Federals would have adopted the repeating rifle with brass cartridges.
The Confederates had European rifles early but they rearmed themselves with Union muzzle loaders recovered from battlefields and could use powder and ball. There was no way the South had the industrial capacity to make brass cartridges. They would have run out of ammunition.
Buwaya said .
Everything man-made that is admirable in it came from what amounts to a lost race. Its a bit like some fantasy story, of some lesser breed of barbarians living in the glorious ruins left by a vanished high civilization.
Robert Graves wrote that all of the Greek 'myths' were attempts by the sea people to explain the fantastic ruins and artwork left behind in Greece. Clearly, such huge buildings "Couldn't" have been built by mortals; and so they used the existing artwork to attempt to explain.
It would be interesting, hundreds of years from now, to hear the myths created to explain the ruins of our America. Robert Graves would say that there is one thing for sure: They'll get it All Wrong
Honestly, if anyone throws a milkshake on someone, they should be taken down and held until police arrive as if they through something dangerous -- because we don't know what is in that "milkshake." Same with "glitterbombing" or other forms of "ha ha, if I wanted to, I could have killed you," attacks that people pretend are just cutesy fun.
The American Revolution was made by people like Washington (supposedly the richest man in America) and John Adams (solid middle-class merchant). Most Tories were either recently arrived Brits or well-to-do globalists with business connections to England. New York city was a hotbed of Loyalists.
who spontaneously organized themselves in the course of a morning,
There was a lot of organization over months before April and the British were well aware of it. mLexington was the result of one more attempt to locate and destroy known arms stores. The locals had been drilling although still not very well trained. Poor marksmanship at Lexington but , once the British began to retreat, they were nearly wiped out.
Wow. That's the wrong threw. I'm way off today.
Like San Francisco and Los Angeles and Seattle, the people who built Portland no longer live there, or rather their descendants are gone, and their current population is vastly different.
Buwaya, I would contend that many of the current population are the descendants of the founders. At some point [the 60's maybe?'] they rejected their legacy and the culture it represented.
New York city was a hotbed of Loyalists.
Not completely true. The British far overestimated the loyalties of the population. The King was certain the rebels were a small minority. He was wrong,
Blogger rcocean said...Althouse needs to work on her marksmanship.
She hit the imposter dead center, so I think her marksmanship is quite good.
I haven't said it for quite a long while, but my contribution to the above conversation led by buwaya (no disrespect meant to the others participating) is:
Modern society is eating the seed corn.
There will come a spring when planting is required and there will be no seed corn.
We are headed for a proverbial societal famine.
IIRC San Francisco in the late 1870's's was a hotbed of labor unrest and racism against the immigrant Chinese, who had been brought over to build the railroads and stayed to work, crowding out the white locals. Irish immigrant Dennis Kearney led a movement to drive them out. Riots, deaths, and arson against Chinese businesses ensued.
Kearney's influenced waned over the next ten years, but his legacy dealt a blow to the ideal of California as a land of opportunity. His movement could never be called the product of a "high civilization."
Annie C,
Why should the Proud Boys or any other groups of American not exercise their God given freedoms anywhere they prefer within the United States?
Give me a single reason, your best.
Helpful hint. The only three Antifa “protestors I’ve seen identified so far were all public employees. My suspicion is that’s a common condition.
Honestly: The police appear to have failed again from everything I'm reading. They even told one reporter that it was their fault antifa was threatening them! This sort of incompetence is going to get a lot of people hurt -- I guess I should say, a lot more people hurt.
“So do these proud boys, or whatever the hell they are, go to Portland to demonstrate just to bring the antifa fascists out for a fight? Or is there some other reason for their drama?”
Enrique Tarrio, the chairman of the right-wing group Proud Boys, said they’re going to “keep coming out here” until Mayor “Ted Wheeler does something about antifa.” So the Proud Boys, he said, will “keep wasting his resources” to deal with these ongoing protests.
“He’s gonna call the National Guard, the FBI, all of those people. We’re gonna keep coming out here until Ted Wheeler does something.”
And Biggs himself said the protest was a success.
“Go look at President Trump’s Twitter,” he told The Oregonian/OregonLive. “He talked about Portland, said he’s watching antifa. That’s all we wanted.”
The worst part is that a lot of people on the left are seeing the routing of the Proud Boys as a good thing. I see it as a dangerous sign that violence is now preferred to speech, even speech we don't like. There was a time that liberals and I agreed that even the Klan has First Amendment rights. Now, I'd probably be hit from behind with a bike lock or a milkshake or a brick for saying that even assholes have free speech rights.
I am I think quite well read on the American Revolution.
Everything from your standard works (Alden et. al) to "The Peoples History", Raphael.
My conclusions are my own. The idea of a bourgeois revolution is, I think, mainly spin. These events, these movements, are mainly organic, and the leadership, outside rare cases, are just that much more flotsam on the tide. The American Revolution moreover had no military genius in it, no "great man". You can argue Washington, but his main skill was avoiding defeat and retaining (if barely sometimes) the confidence of Congress. He was no Napoleon, no Moltke.
"I'm pretty sure right-wingers will assume that those arrested were Antifa"
I doubt it. There have been many cases of Proud Boys, and other "right wingers", arrested and charged for defending themselves against attacks from Anti-First Amendment and other lefties.
Anyway, the affiliation of those arrested may not be immediately apparent or known.
I changed my name when a nut started posting here as 'Mike'.
As did I.
The American Civil War would have ended a year sooner if the Federals would have adopted the repeating rifle with brass cartridges.
Some of the cavalry units had them towards the end.
I am not sure if Buford's people had them at Gettysburg, but that would explain their Day 1 success.
Just like today, the bureaucratic procurement officers ruled the roost.
FrankIngaM believes the brown shirts of the Leftist Collectivists, the Anti-First Amendment or Anti-FA, should be allowed to deter others their exercise of recognized human rights.
Hard pass.
And, let's not pretend that antifa didn't, finally, score a tactical at least victory in a skirmish. Normally, they are on the losing end until the police arrive to separate the skirmish lines. This time, for whatever reason, the Proud Boys were in disarray and forced to retreat. Then, antifa forces picked off stragglers. I strongly believe the arrested people were armed antifa who let themselves be arrested to force the police to act early, which would further throw the Proud Boys lines into disarray as they were forced to move by forces they would not fight with (as opposed to antifa forces who had no problem forcing police to retreat.)
And yes, I feel like discussing this in terms of a military action is correct, as we had two small bands of combatants who showed up for, essentially, mutual combat.
Bob Smith said...
Helpful hint. The only three Antifa “protestors I’ve seen identified so far were all public employees. My suspicion is that’s a common condition.
You're most likely correct. From what Andy Ngo and a few others have said; a large majority of the Portland citizenry is sympathetic to anti-fa. Hence the reason Wheeler is reluctant to do anything about them. I tend to believe that this attitude is soon going to become a real problem for him.
Birkel, Americans have every right to e exercise their God-given rights. I am merely asking what the motivation is for either part in protesting and counter protesting.
If the proud boys are holding a rally/protest to merely incite antifa fascists to violence, they also have that right as long as they do not start any violence or panic.
What I am asking is if that is the point of the proud boys demonstration, or if there is a further point they are trying to make that I don't know about.
Twitter › johncessna
John Cessna
If you look in a mirror and say “incel” three times, a Proud Boy will appear to simultaneously start a fight while asking you to subscribe to his YouTube channel.
Who are the Proud Boys?
Misogyny:
Gavin McInnes frequently states that he (like Proud Boys generally) “venerates the housewife,” but he has also said that women are “lazy” and “less ambitious” than men, and that the pay gap between women and men is due to the fact a woman “would rather go to [her] daughter’s piano recital” than work. He has said that women are “magical” and that “birth is a magical thing,” and that the U.S. should have “enforced monogamy” because women are “colostomy bags for various strangers’ semen” when they have sex outside of marriage. He has described feminism as “a cancer” which “makes women ugly.”
"His movement could never be called the product of a "high civilization."
OMG, they didn't love the Chinese. OMG they weren't like us in 1882. Look at the rest of the world in 1882, we - the USA - WERE the high civilization. But then they let people like you in, and the decline started.
And no matter how ugly or hateful their rhetoric is, they have the right to say it without fearing for their safety in America.
"But maybe it's the city's policy to refrain from purporting to know the politics of individuals arrested for disorderly conduct."
The policy of the City of Roses is that fascists may riot without obstruction as long as they call themselves antifascist.
In spite of everything (and there was a lot of "everything", including having the city burned down by a gang of Australians), San Francisco in the 19th century was an intense, booming, place. And moreover one that was obsessed with high culture.
The place started very low and went very high.
Complaining about the treatment of Chinese is silly. Absolutely nobody liked the Chinese, anywhere they went, in their great 19th century migrations. You cannot call San Francisco crap because it did not conform to modern ideas.
The point of their demonstrations I believe is to show that antifa are just another group of thugs masquerading as the good guys.
Annie C., I read somewhere the right was marching to protest that no one has been arrested in the Andy Ngo assault at the end of June.
The passive voice describing the outbreak of violence is the dead give-away here. We can know with 100% certainty which of the two groups was initiating the violence.
True, buwaya, that Washington was no Napoleon. And thank God for that!
Annie C., why would you assume the purpose was to "incite antifa fascists to violence"?
Also if showing up at a public place incites a group to violence, I think they're more the problem than the people choosing to exist in public.
Matt Sablan said...
And, let's not pretend that antifa didn't, finally, score a tactical at least victory in a skirmish. Normally, they are on the losing end until the police arrive to separate the skirmish lines. This time, for whatever reason, the Proud Boys were in disarray and forced to retreat. Then, antifa forces picked off stragglers. I strongly believe the arrested people were armed antifa who let themselves be arrested to force the police to act early, which would further throw the Proud Boys lines into disarray as they were forced to move by forces they would not fight with (as opposed to antifa forces who had no problem forcing police to retreat.)
Yesterday was more of a political exercise than tactical or strategic. There was no incentive for the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer to openly battle anti-fa in the streets. Letting themselves get sucker punched with a huge chunk of the electorate watching was a smart move, especially with the attack on Andy Ngo and the takeover of downtown Portland fresh in everyone's minds.
Matt Sablan said...
The worst part is that a lot of people on the left are seeing the routing of the Proud Boys as a good thing. I see it as a dangerous sign that violence is now preferred to speech, even speech we don't like"
Of course. The elderly crone Inga is cheering on violence against the Proud Boys because they're "fascists."
Except - I don't know one damn thing about the Proud Boys. What do they believe? Can anybody point me to any racist or fascist statement they have made? Have they been labeled "alt right racists" because they talk like David Duke or simply because they're against open borders and believe in free speech? Or because they challenge Antifa's takeover of a once pleasant American city?
I saw one clip from yesterday's riot that was both funny and pathetic. A clearly unhinged black Antifa dude (one of the only Antifas who wasn't white and didn't cover his face) was spoiling for a fight with someone and he got into the face of an old white man - who happened to be a liberal. Crazy black dude screamed insults at him while the frightened old white guy kept saying "I'm on your side. I respect you..."
That'll be Inga and Howard if the Antifas they love ever end up on their streets.
Antifa: You're an old white sack of shit! You're a fascist pig!
Inga/Howard (pissing their pants): I'm on your side. I respect you. I hate Trump!
Antifa: You should fucking die, whitey..
Inga/Howard (cringing and bowing): I understand your anger...
Ah, thanks Danno. I hadn't heard that. Makes sense now.
Paco, I wasn't assuming, i was asking. I hadn't seen much about these proud boys. Who they are, what the want. That's why I asked.
Gavin McInnes can say whatever he wants, Inga, you totalitarian hag.
As far as feminism making women ugly, that's certainly true in your case.
Great civilizations have a tendency to destroy themselves which is why we have no great civilizations today.
This isn't political, this is about 'sport' from the Antifa participants. It's the high of the mob.
It doesn't how terrible one's views are, this isn't good. Unsure how a small group of people can just openly terrorize other what seems to be for 'sport'.
Even if it is a small fraction of participants, what is Portland allowing this?
The American Revolution moreover had no military genius in it, no "great man". You can argue Washington, but his main skill was avoiding defeat and retaining (if barely sometimes) the confidence of Congress. He was no Napoleon, no Moltke.
He was Eisenhower, without the aristocratic background. Both of them kept the armies together in spite of lots of centrifugal forces.
Neither was a skilled tactician. Montgomery was better in defense and Patton on offense. The British generals knew they would never win but George and his friend North were ignorant and certain of their wisdom.
Franklin was the wise man who got the French involved. Maybe analogous to Churchill who held on until America came to his rescue.
From what I can garner from the Proud Boys' actions, they are simply setting themselves up as targets for public violence. This tactic has been successfully used by many social movements over the last century- the enemies' violence is used against them in the public relations war, which is the real goal. What is different in this particular case is that the big media organs are almost uninimously opposed to the peaceful side of this conflict- something you rarely see. I don't know that the Proud Boys' tactics can work unless they are willing to actually let Antifa kill a few of them- it is what will have to happen if they expect to beat Antifa this way.
FrankiM said...
That link you posted from ADL is beyond pathetic, not to mention slanderous.
You'll notice there is not one direct quote from the Proud Boys.
Be better.
This "White Supremacy" that Democrats seem to be adopting since the failure of the "Russian Collusion," I think is really damaging. I see an era of war on merit coming that will crush our remaining educational institutions that still teach STEM courses. Purdue now has an "Engineering Education" school, with a dean who has no Engineering education herself. This is analogous to "Studies" majors that teach nothing but SJW propaganda.
I foresee more collapsing "Beautiful bridges."
There was an editorial in the leftist Tucson newspaper by "We are Doctors" explaining how "Medicare for All" is really going to be great, More nonsense by the credentialled but not educated.
“You'll notice there is not one direct quote from the Proud Boys.”
“Gavin McInnes regularly encourages his followers to commit violence against people who disagree with them. In a June 2016 episode of the Gavin McInnes show, he said, “We will kill you. That’s the Proud Boys in a nutshell. We will kill you. We look nice, we seem soft, we have boys in our name…we will assassinate you.” In 2017, he said in an interview that violence “is a really effective way to solve problems” and, also in 2017, McInnes said violence “is a really effective way to solve problems.” Although McInnes has at times repudiated violence, the group routinely engages in it, often with McInnes’ explicit encouragement.”
Gavin McInnes co-founded The Proud Boys with another man (black) who's name escapes me. It was formed in direct response to the "toxic masculinity" movement that was sweeping the country.
McInnes eventually quit the group because some of the new members held radical views, and were almost certainly undercover FBI.
Patriot Prayer is a spin-off.
There is nothing "White" or "far-right" or "extremist" about them. It's a media label. You know, the same label they give to all MAGA supporters.
Be better
If it were possible for Inga to be better, you would have had evidence of it years ago.
Let me try again:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/08/epstein_and_the_public_loss_of_faith.html
The first requirement of a revolutionary movement is martyrs.
The need is not to kill, but to be killed.
Annie C,
Excuse me for not giving a single solitary shit if you like the "reasons" a person is exercising their Constitutionally recognized and God given rights. That's not part of the equation.
"...defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire
You're asking poorly reasoned questions.
""What, exactly, constitutes "far right"?"
You and me."
Anything to the right of the far left.
The meta-answer is always: whatever the prog owners of the means of propaganda say it is.
Interesting quote by Gavin McInnes as provided by FrankIngaM.
Now let's see the whole talk. Was that quote pulled because it expressed his personal beliefs or was he describing his understanding of Anti-1st-Amendment's views?
FrankIngaM won't care. Neither did the reporters.
Gavin McInnes co-founded The Proud Boys with another man (black) who's name escapes me. It was formed in direct response to the "toxic masculinity" movement that was sweeping the country.
This is why that group of young men was chanting "You will not replace us" and the left, like Inga, lies and tries to change the words to "Jews will not" which make little sense. n Why would Jews want try to take the place of poorly educated young men?
Listen to the chant on video.
Birkel said...
Interesting quote by Gavin McInnes as provided by FrankIngaM.
Now let's see the whole talk. Was that quote pulled because it expressed his personal beliefs or was he describing his understanding of Anti-1st-Amendment's views?
FrankIngaM won't care. Neither did the reporters.
If you read the ADL page, every single thing on there is out of context.
That "quote" is so preposterous it's simply laughable.
From the World Jewish Congress
The numbers tell the story of Portland's white supremacy(*):
Portland is in Multnomah county, named after slave owning Multnomah Amerindians.
5.6% of the people in Multnomah country are black but 27% of the Multnomah County Current Inmates are black.
76.5% of the people in Multnomah country are white but 58% of the inmates are white.
(*) Ha ha just kidding the numbers don't tell any such thing.
In which Fernandistein continues his one man crusade to pay him no attention whatever.
Darn it.
You almost won.
As was observed in yesterday's posts, we are at war and the first casualty of war is always truth. We need to get used to the fact that there will be no accurate reporting and no 'news' that hasn't been strained through the sieve of Prog-aganda. This is very reminiscent of the 60's but, in the 60's, it was the Left fighting the Establishment. Now it is the Right. And Hollywood was on the Left's side in the 60's and remains so today. And now the Left also owns the news media, owned by the same corporations that own Hollywood. The internet, for all it's weaknesses, is all we've got. And we may not have it for long with Google, et al, against us.
I changed my name when a nut started posting here as 'Mike'.
Are you a far-mike-wing Mike supremacist?
"Interesting quote by Gavin McInnes as provided by FrankIngaM."
I went looking for the video to see what the context was. I found plenty of purported quotes from the video, and I found one web article that had a link that was supposed to take me to the video, but there was no link to the video to be found there.
So, nothing so far. Anybody?
Hey Inga - you OK with Antifa violence?
Inga- you OK with Antifa stealing Andy Gno's camera and then assaulting him and leaving him with a head injury?
Hey Inga-
Are you OK with masked leftwing thugs randomly targeting people who are simply attempting to drive down a Portland street?
In which Fernandistein continues his one man crusade to pay him no attention whatever.
Thanks for the attention! I crave attention and positive feedback, that's why I go around agreeing with and complimenting other commenters.
Inga - are you OK with the leftwing mayor giving left-wing cover to leftwing criminals in masks - because the leftwing mayor feels the leftwingers in masks have a right to assault people?
Holocaust survivor explains “Jews will not replace us!”
Inga learns her deception and out-of context BS from Maddow.
Clark said...
"Interesting quote by Gavin McInnes as provided by FrankIngaM."
I went looking for the video to see what the context was. I found plenty of purported quotes from the video, and I found one web article that had a link that was supposed to take me to the video, but there was no link to the video to be found there.
So, nothing so far. Anybody?
I did a deep dive. Nothing.
The problem is, many foreign born "patriots" are still under the illusion that the America they fell in love with--free expression--still exists.
That's why a Chinese art dealer in NYC can't understand why he got beat up for wearing a MAGA hat.
See who's wearing masks covering their faces and see who isn't.
That tells you all you need to know.
Early on in this video @ the 0:42 mark, when answering a question about violence solving problems, “Yeah, fighting solves everything”-McInnes.
That's pretty unfair to the legit Mark!
I'm too legit to quit.
I wonder how long it will take for Radial leftists to wear suicide bomb vests?
I guess the good news is - they are pampered cowards.
FrankiM said...
Holocaust survivor explains “Jews will not replace us!”
Oh, boy.
I'd say you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, but I don't want to underestimate your ability to scrape out the bottom, and keep scraping until you scrape your way to China.
On no! words about "fighting back".
Fighting the antifa street thugs who actually assault people while Portland police are ordered by the left-wing mayor to do nothing.
We should stand by while leftwing thugs in masks steal our cameras. We should stand by while leftwing antifa thugs in masks smash our heads with heavy objects.
Inga's new persona is just as stupid and weird as her earlier one, but in a different way.
She reminds me of a lecture that a CEO gave on dealing with different types of people in his organization. He divided people by IQ and Motivation.
High IQ/High M: Get out of their way. Let them do their jobs.
High IQ/Low M: This is where leadership comes in. Inspire them.
Low IQ/Low M: Provide as much structure as possible for them to add value.
Low IQ/High M: Make every effort possible to identify these people and rid your organization of them.
The problem with the last group is that they are often running 100mph in the WRONG direction.
I wonder which category Inga fits into.
How about some of the Dem Clown Show candidates?
FrankiM said...
Early on in this video @ the 0:42 mark, when answering a question about violence solving problems, “Yeah, fighting solves everything”-McInnes.
Make sure you read the comments.
At least this video has 648,597 views, unlike the 5 in the last video you posted.
I like 4 second quotes, the context of which cannot be ascertained.
Nice try, Royal ass FrankIngaM.
Holocaust survivor explains “Jews will not replace us!”
People in their 80s are known for their acute hearing and ability to discriminate the word "You" from "Jew".
Why is Inga calling herself Frank? Is ze transitioning?
Fernandistein said...
Holocaust survivor explains “Jews will not replace us!”
People in their 80s are known for their acute hearing and ability to discriminate the word "You" from "Jew".
8/18/19, 1:11 PM
Not just 80 year olds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaPBhxXhprg
There was never an Inga.
It was a scam for Absolute Moral Authority.
It wanted us to feel bad about picking on a grandma.
It was always a lie.
Inga pretends nobody's ever going to come knocking on her door when the shit goes down.
That's why she supports leftist violence.
She's sorely mistaken.
McInnes calling for violence
Oh, look, Althouse's blog is all about Inga again.
Milk shakes have a long Democrat history. Milk shakes were poured on heads of Blacks sitting at Southern lunch counters.
exiledonmainstreet: "Why is Inga calling herself Frank? Is ze transitioning?"
Inga reached hoax/liar critical mass after the complete and utter collapse of her 3 year run on hoax collusion / hoax obstruction / hoax gang rape / hoax sexual assault / hoax emoluments lies / hoax 25th amendment ploys.
All in addition to 3 years straight of pro-MS13 and pro-open borders and pro-islamic supremacist and pro-infanticide dem party support.
She no doubt believes adopting a new name will help in pushing the new hoax white supremacy lies.
Inga threads are like piles of poop on San Francisco streets. Be careful not to step in one.
McInnes explains how to become a member of the Proud Boys.
FrankiM said...
McInnes calling for violence
Again, the truth is in the comments.
This is typical:
I never knew about Gavin and how awesome he was until I watched this clip and looked him up. Typical media distorting reality to push an agenda. I'm sure he appreciates the free publicity
It's ridiculous you've used the footage from a selectively-edited smear video for your story. You need to return to the old days of journalism and do your research. The violence is instigated by Antifa, a far Left group that has been declared domestic terrorists in many states, The Proud Boys defend themselves when confronted by these thugs.
buwaya: Complaining about the treatment of Chinese is silly. Absolutely nobody liked the Chinese, anywhere they went, in their great 19th century migrations. You cannot call San Francisco crap because it did not conform to modern ideas.
And in fact, arguments for, e.g., the Chinese Exclusion Act recognized them as highly capable people. The reasoning was, essentially, "hey we and our forefathers did the dirty work of conquering and civilizing this land, why the hell should we just hand it over to such capable competitors?" The Chinese discriminated against here were at least as "racist" as the people wanting to keep them out, and, if no doubt understandably objecting to the target of this particular manifestation of racial attitude, would hardly have disagreed with the general principle.
Adducing such attitudes and legislation as self-evidently wrong and "racist" to all right-thinking people now and always is just mindless presentism.
Well, now that we have established Inga is lying again to an extent that would embarrass her erstwhile ally LLR Chuck, we can return to the topic of the thread.
From the most recent link by FakeFrankIngaM:
If they throw bricks, can we throw bricks?
Response to violence becomes distorted.
Now responding in self-defense is violence.
Not just 80 year olds.
Jew know what I mean!
Here's one of the (not anti-)fascist arrests: I think she may have threatened to sit on somebody.
Gender Female
Race White
Height 5 ft 5 in
Weight 200 lbs
DISORDERLY COND 2 (B Misdemeanor)
MENACING (A Misdemeanor)
HARASSMENT - B MISD (B Misdemeanor)
Would the Proud Boys have attacked the cops or bystanders? Antifa did. Where are the injury reports of noncombatants on the Antifa side being sucker punched and abandoned by the police?
Its clear the feds will have to intervene as democrat politicians have explicitly aligned with antifa in leftist cities (Berkeley, San Jose, Portland, etc) and are conspiring to deprive Americans of a different political view of their constitutional rights.
We will see if Barr is serious about this moving forward.
Would the Proud Boys have attacked the cops or bystanders?
No. That's the point of noting that they went behind the police line. Far from attacking the police, they sought their protection.
AND the police knew that they were safe/wimpy enough to turn their back on them.
And in fact, arguments for, e.g., the Chinese Exclusion Act recognized them as highly capable people.
That sounds like a zero-sum argument.
"I should expect the large part of the African seaboard, now sparsely occupied by lazy, palavering savages living under the nominal sovereignty of the Zanzibar, or Portugal, might in a few years be tenanted by industrious, order loving Chinese, living either as a semi-detached dependency of China, or else in perfect freedom under their own law.
...
The Chinaman is a being of another kind, who is endowed with a remarkable aptitude for a high material civilization. He is seen to the least advantage in his own country, where a temporary dark age still prevails, which has not sapped the genius of the race, though it has stunted the developed the of each member of it, by the rigid enforcement of an effete system of classical education which treats originality as a social crime." -- Francis Galton, letter to the Editor of The Times, June 5 1873
“James Reardon Jr., 20, has been charged with telecommunications harassment and aggravated menacing and is being held in the Mahoning County Jail on $250,000 bond with a court hearing planned for Monday morning.
Reardon is an avowed anti-Semite and white nationalist and attended the deadly "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017, according to WYTV. During the raid on his house on Friday police also discovered anti-Semitic and white nationalist propaganda.”
https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-white-nationalist-anti-semite-arrested-threatening-shoot/story?id=65040200
“Jew will not replace us!” Heard at the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally.”
Am I the only one who can't read "Proud Boys" without humming it in Duran-Duranese? So I misremembered the song title and refrain.
It should never be forgotten-
Before the election, those that attended Trump campaign events were assaulted and beating when leaving the events. A Chicago (MAGA Country!) a campaign event had to be cancelled due to the inevitable violence.
This is a permanent stain on the American political process they want to pretend never happened.
FrankiM said...
I responded to your nonsense because I cannot let casual readers of Althouse think there is merit to the blatant smears you keep posting.
My point is made.
Moving on....
A couple thousand lurkers here I think.
Inga thinks she's the Althouse antifa.
“Authorities say they've arrested a Connecticut man interested in committing a mass shooting and seized weapons and ammunition from his home.
Norwalk and FBI officials say 22-year-old Brandon Wagshol was charged Thursday with illegal possession of large capacity ammunition magazines. Police say they received a tip that Wagshol was trying to buy large-capacity rifle magazines from out of state.
Officials allege Wagshol was attempting to build a rifle with parts bought online. They say a Facebook posting showed his interest in committing a mass shooting.”
Brandon Wagshol:
I support transgenders' rights to be some of the first in the gas chambers https://t.co/Mkrvv74Ysg
— Brandon Wagshawle (@wagshol_brandon) April 18, 2018
I hate niggers https://t.co/o6Gmt6vxzr
— Brayden Waygshill (@NaughtWagshol) May 23, 2019
@FBI yeah some nigger stole my package for sure you definitely didn't flash your badge to the UPS guy 10/10
— Brandon Wagshawle (@wagshol_brandon) April 18, 2018
The accounts also liked a string of extremely racist posts, one of which appears to have been a reference to the KKK demolishing someone’s house.”
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-interest-mass-shooting-arrested-65003300
Inga thinks she's the Althouse antifa.
8/18/19, 2:12 PM
Yeah, old white woman who lives in a Republican county dreams of takin' it to the streets.
Wearing a mask would undoubtedly improve her appearance immensely.
Sad efforts to smear a whole lot of people.
You're sure to convince nobody.
#TrueBeliever
those that attended Trump campaign events were assaulted and beating when leaving the events.
I was barely paying attention then, and all that I saw reported by the networks was pro-Trumpers beating up hecklers. I should have known better than to trust anything they said.
Howard. You go get em, fella. Grrr. get those evil righties. You're just the beta male to do it too.
Domestic terrorist group Antifa attacking random people in Portland 8.17.19
Andy Ngo. A reminder of what leftwing brownshirts will do. and the Leftwing mayor is cool with it.
Compilation of McInnes advocating violence
Where is the mashup of Anti-1st-Amendment violence?
Search videos on duckduckgo.com by "antifa violence" and there is a lot to choose.
My favorite is "violence breaks out" without human agency.
"Interesting quote by Gavin McInnes as provided by FrankIngaM."
——————————————
“I went looking for the video to see what the context was. I found plenty of purported quotes from the video, and I found one web article that had a link that was supposed to take me to the video, but there was no link to the video to be found there.
So, nothing so far. Anybody?
I did a deep dive. Nothing.”
————————————————
In the compilation video I posted at 2:58PM, at the 3:04 mark Gavin McInnes says “We will kill you. That’s the Proud Boys in a nutshell. We will kill you. We look nice, we seem soft, we have boys in our name…we will assassinate you.”
That compilation is picking it up in the middle of what looks like a pretty standard: "Don't mess with us, we won't mess with you," sort of speech less an initiation of a threat. Of course, it COULD be either, but I have no way of knowing except that when something is clearly edited, I give the benefit of the doubt to the person being edited around and shift the burden of proof on the person editing.
It's the same thing I told my guys as an RA: "I'm not here to have problems; if there IS a problem though, I know how to end problems."
I have to believe Inga's hilariously manic and ineffectual posting is a great disappointment to her pal LLR Chuck.
But, even if McGinness or whoever this guy I'm supposed to care about IS a dick... that doesn't give you the right to attack his people when they're peacefully protesting. It certainly doesn't give you the right to *press the attack on fleeing noncombatants.* That's downright evil.
Like: I generally am ambivalent when the "far right" and antifa draw up battle lines and just let go on each other. That's consensual fighting, and, frankly, I'm of the opinion to step out of the way and root for injuries. But, antifa routinely attacks *noncombatants,* and that the police and people of good conscious should NOT abide.
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