Althouse: At the Hollyhock Café...

July 5, 2019

At the Hollyhock Café...

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... you can talk all you like.

60 comments:

BUMBLE BEE said...: Liz Wheeler's guest on OAN ... https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703.
Puts a different light on the subject!; 7/5/19, 8:51 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: C'est drole! Bon troll!

Marianne Williamson Hilariously Photoshops Herself Into Vogue’s Picture Of Democrat Female 2020 Candidates; 7/5/19, 9:09 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: https://en.mogaznews.com/World-News/1249601/Marianne-Williamson-photoshops-herself-into-the-Vogue-photo-of-female-.html; 7/5/19, 9:34 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: we're rooting for her--

she's politics version of the Jamaican Bobsled Team; 7/5/19, 9:40 PM
Narr said...: Before retiring, I want to list a few things I have learned on Althouse in my brief sojourn.

1. Libertarians were the cause of the American Civil War, because of their lust for power. (The second part is my guess, but the first part is so clearly true that no one needs to defend the notion.)

2. The French Revolution was awful all around, because lawyers.

3. Atheists can have no conception of crime; it is a category that doesn't exist in The Atheist Universe. (This too is apparently self-evident.)

4. The ancient Chinese had no real science, as proved by a statement Albert Einstein made in 1933.

Narr
Endeavor to persevere!; 7/5/19, 9:43 PM
narciso said...: I would say theres a whole lot of category error there, about classical liberalism certainly, the lawyers are to indicate the upper class bourgeois pretensions the others arent even worth considering; 7/5/19, 9:49 PM
Birkel said...: I learned the economy is red hot under Trump.
People who want work can have it.; 7/5/19, 9:55 PM
Titus said...: Do you know how many times someone quotes a times article at the dog park? Everyday! And don’t get me started with all the New Yorker handbags on the street. I admit I have one.; 7/5/19, 9:55 PM
William said...: I will not be inconsolable if our Woman's Soccer Team loses in the finals tomorrow....From what I've heard, there are other countries in the world with problematic histories, mistreatment of minorities and women, etc. etc. Why is America the only country in the world where athlete feel the need to protest against the national anthem? A clear case of American exceptionalism.; 7/5/19, 9:56 PM
Titus said...: We don’t even say New York Times. Just the times; 7/5/19, 9:56 PM
Michael McNeil said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/5/19, 9:58 PM
Michael McNeil said...: Narr: Ha ha. Caricatures are so convincing.

As for Chinese science, I'm not very “up” much less expert with regard to this aspect of the history of science (I wish I were), but I'm unaware of — and would be very interested in hearing about — any Chinese equivalent, say, of Aristotle's proof (based on solidly empirical, not logically-theoretical-philosophical grounds) of the sphericity of the earth (much less a Chinese Newton). Moreover, based on that, it was Western Jesuits to who took globes of (spherical) earth to the Chinese; Chinese scientists didn't send Chinese globes back.

As I see it, that's the difference between a people which is adept at making technological innovations, versus one which approaches science (as the West learned to do) from a mix of theoretical insights combined with empirical experience.; 7/5/19, 9:59 PM
Michael McNeil said...: The problem with ancient science as it arose in the West was an undue respect and confidence in purely logical, theoretical conclusions — without their being properly rooted in empirical fact. This is the flaw which Einstein credits Galileo as vaccinating Western science against, during the second historical reboot of Western science during the Renaissance.; 7/5/19, 10:04 PM
BJM said...: Oooooo...Hollyhocks. A wonderful color too. Are those in the Meadehouse garden?; 7/5/19, 10:05 PM
Chuck said...: Hey I guess now it’s time to discuss American air superiority in the Revolutionary War, right? It’s a topic that Althouse was eager to get to all day, but just ran out of time.

If it had been simply a matter of hilarious twitter memes having fun with General Washington crossing the lobby at LaGuardia (there are plenty of those, and more, and some are fantastically funny), it might have ended today as the 975th consecutive bizarre day of the Trump Era.

But today was so special. We had Trump blaming the rain. And blaming the TelePrompTer.

But fortunately, as Trump said, he knew the speech. He’s not like stupid Obama, or stupid Hillary, relying on their own TelePrompTers. He’s smart. Trump knows his speeches. He knew this speech. So I guess he knew about “Cornwallis of Yorktown,” capturing the “airports” and whether Fort McHenry featured in the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812, and when the “Star-Spangled Banner” lyrics were written. Trump’s smart. He doesn’t need a TelePrompTer. He didn’t need one on the 4th. Because he knows this stuff, and he knew that speech. He said so this morning.; 7/5/19, 10:07 PM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/5/19, 10:10 PM
Titus said...: I tell peeps to not tap me on Grindr. What should I do? I don’t want to be rude. Taps confuse me.; 7/5/19, 10:10 PM
traditionalguy said...: These lazy, hazy days of summer bring to mind a loyal black Lab named Zeus frolicing in the snow. Is there any news of Zeus?; 7/5/19, 10:10 PM
narciso said...: So then this appears:

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html?fbclid=IwAR39Yr2pGoOF9S8DhRxv87CksWZvGxhIYHs7tc3oUQg6Dl1kq0mDHCxeXWE; 7/5/19, 10:23 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: then this

https://trendingpolitics.com/feinstein-had-private-dinner-with-iranian-prime-minister-then-lied-about-it/?utm_source=realjack&utm_medium=twitter; 7/5/19, 10:27 PM
mockturtle said...: Reminds me of when my grandmother showed me how to make little hollyhock dolls.; 7/5/19, 10:30 PM
narciso said...: What a surorise:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/05/theresa-mays-aides-accused-playing-petty-politics-security-services/; 7/5/19, 10:31 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Titus:

What should I do?

Ignore them.; 7/5/19, 10:32 PM
traditionalguy said...: The President has taken off the gloves and is now beating the shit out of our #1 enemy which has owned us since the European Bankers first talked Wilson into chartering them a new Bank which will issue our money supply under contract with the United States Treasury. Its only claim to fame has been its assertion that it will ease the pain of financial crashes and recessions that it has craftily worked to cause.

The FED is a dead central bank walking.; 7/5/19, 10:51 PM
BJM said...: @Chuck...yeah Trump knew his speech when he spoke to the corpse-men in all 57 states too.; 7/5/19, 11:26 PM
walter said...: Titus said...
Do you know how many times someone quotes a times article at the dog park? Everyday!
Titus said...
We don’t even say New York Times. Just the times
--
It's the shit.; 7/5/19, 11:28 PM
readering said...: I will be inconsolable is USA loses tomorrow because it's supposed to be England beating Sweden for third place.; 7/5/19, 11:39 PM
walter said...: something to consider; 7/5/19, 11:41 PM
readering said...: Chuck, as has been pointed out, construction at LaGuardia has been traced back to the Revolution (when I believe it was called Van Cortlandt).; 7/5/19, 11:46 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Germany: A Shocking Degree Of Self-Censorship

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-04/germany-shocking-degree-self-censorship; 7/5/19, 11:57 PM
narciso said...: Traffic was terrible even then, with the horses and all.; 7/6/19, 12:10 AM
eddie willers said...: Narr. How could you miss:

5. Men should garner no shorts.; 7/6/19, 12:12 AM
Achilles said...: Birkel said...
I learned the economy is red hot under Trump.
People who want work can have it.

Driving through at McDonalds tonight on a road trip.

Showed my wife the three posters where there are usually adds for food.

They are begging people to work there.

This economy is particularly good for the working class. Which is why the bourgeois hates it.; 7/6/19, 12:14 AM
readering said...: This where I come read weird shit about politics.; 7/6/19, 12:28 AM
narciso said...: There are whole other worlds out there:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TexanJustin/status/1147300017440534533; 7/6/19, 12:30 AM
Narayanan said...: Blogger Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...
C'est drole! Bon troll

Quite Trump-ian. Being own publicist.; 7/6/19, 12:37 AM
Kevin said...: Liberals on Tuesday: OMG! Trump is an authoritarian ruler who is misusing military assets to aggrandize himself and make Independence Day into a celebration of himself and white nationalism!

Liberals on Thursday: OMG! Trump misspoke!

If you can’t see the inherent contradiction, it’s because you are the idiot at the table.; 7/6/19, 4:54 AM
Chuck said...: Blogger BJM said...
@Chuck...yeah Trump knew his speech when he spoke to the corpse-men in all 57 states too.

Philip Bump, writing a wonderful column for the Washington Post, anticipated these kinds of answers to the latest Trump howler.

”Not that this was a mistake, I’m sure we’ll be told. It’s a matter of hours — perhaps less — before some Trump ally goes on CNN to explain that Trump was referring to the current site of Baltimore/Washington International or to argue that the president was using the term as it was originally intended to be used or who knows what. Perhaps we’ll get an Obama-also-misspoke.

This pattern, too, is revealing. Trump’s ability to not have to own even simple mistakes is certainly aided by the vast infrastructure, the various Sean Spicers out there, willing to help him in that effort.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/05/problem-with-trumps-revolutionary-war-airports-isnt-airports/; 7/6/19, 5:53 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "And don’t get me started with all the New Yorker handbags on the street. I admit I have one."

You mean totebags?!; 7/6/19, 5:53 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Oooooo...Hollyhocks. A wonderful color too. Are those in the Meadehouse garden?"

I took the photo at Centennial Gardens (on the UW Campus)(a short walk from Meadhouse). Same location as the koi pond shown in the previous night's café.; 7/6/19, 5:55 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: After watching the Evel Kinevil doc, I see signs Trump was a huge fan. The love of America and hatred of the lying media stand out.

Fearlessness.

If Trump haters, losers, weren't so over-the-top emotional people might not mock them and laugh at their bitchy hysterics. Thank God for blessings large and small.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/the-week-in-pictures-covfefe-sequel-edition.php; 7/6/19, 6:09 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsins-serial-toilet-clogger-150-days-jail-three-years-probation; 7/6/19, 6:29 AM
Rusty said...: M McNiel.
The Chinese were very good at science. After all they had to schedule the emperors time with his concubines. They built a very sophisticated water clock that tolled the hour and told the phases of the moon, etc. Unfortunately when an emperor died so did his history. All those things were destroyed, or were supposed to be destroyed. So no continuity. Knowledge for its own sake was discouraged unless it supported the state. In the west knowledge for its own sake was encouraged.; 7/6/19, 6:57 AM
Jaq said...: If Obama had been a decent president, with the best interest of the nation as a whole at heart, I wouldn’t have given a flying fuck that he didn’t know something every third grader knows, because grade school kids in Indonesia probably didn’t drill that stuff into his head.

But Obama ruled almost exclusively from the point of view of the interests of the white left and voters of the Democrat Party. “Punish your enemies, help your friends!” I don’t hear that from Trump, so I can let a lot of minor stuff go.; 7/6/19, 7:01 AM
iowan2 said...: Blogger BJM said...
@Chuck...yeah Trump knew his speech when he spoke to the corpse-men in all 57 states too.

Wait,wait, I KNOW. Pick me!
Chuck's already been told what to think about this! He'll quote a REAL expert!! From a "wonderful" column, posted in the unassailable Washington Post ( I'll type out the full name, you rubes are too stupid if he uses the term the elites use, WAPO)

Philip Bump, writing a wonderful column for the Washington Post, anticipated these kinds of answers to the latest Trump howler.; 7/6/19, 7:02 AM
Jaq said...: Do you know how many times someone quotes a times article at the dog park? Everyday!

That’s their business model, to make coasties feel good about themselves by writing stuff guaranteed to boost their egos. Who doesn’t want their ego fluffed like a fresh pillow every morning?; 7/6/19, 7:06 AM
Mr. Forward said...: Last week it was Sherman tanks instead of Abrams. This week it’s airports when Trump clearly meant seaports. You could figure it out from the context or you could impeach.; 7/6/19, 7:21 AM
Howard said...: Blogger Achilles said...

Birkel said...
I learned the economy is red hot under Trump.
People who want work can have it.

Driving through at McDonalds tonight on a road trip.

Showed my wife the three posters where there are usually adds for food.

They are begging people to work there.

This economy is particularly good for the working class. Which is why the bourgeois hates it.

Lots of no-skill, low wage jobs perfect for obese oxy diabetic deplorables dispensing poison disguised as food.; 7/6/19, 7:29 AM
Howard said...: althouse is technically right, titus is practically right:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-a-free-canvas-tote-became-a-bigger-status-symbol-than-a-10000-hermes-bag-2017-09-01; 7/6/19, 7:32 AM
Chuck said...: Blogger Mr. Forward said...
Last week it was Sherman tanks instead of Abrams. This week it’s airports when Trump clearly meant seaports. You could figure it out from the context or you could impeach.

That was the point of the Philip Bump column. That sometimes — very rarely, with any normal President — there may be a flub in a speech. And normal people can find self-effacing humor and humanity in the error. But not only does Trump commit these flubs on a regular basis (causing many of us to wonder about his basic organic brain functioning); in the aftermath there is never, ever any acknowledgement of error by Trump. And indeed the explanations (or complete non-explanations as with “covfefe”) and excuses get more bizarre than the original errors.

I know that for me, the basic verbal gaffe part is merely funny and not concerning. The concerning part is the sociopathic denial of reality. And how the sociopathic denials following verbal gaffes line up with all of the sociopathic behavior that wasn’t merely a verbal gaffe.

Now the nice part about the July 4 speech is that the gaffe about Revolutionary War airports has the quality of being simple and vivid in a way that will stick, with the simpletons who have been fans of Trump. Like Trump’s own simplistic zingers.; 7/6/19, 7:38 AM
Rusty said...: Actually, Howard there are a lot of high skilled jobs out there for people with the skills. Welders, programmers, CNC machinists, auto mechanics, etc. Even if you're a half way decent welder, get thee to oil country. They'll train you to weld pipe. A lot of low wage menial jobs aren't being filled because there are so many better options out there.; 7/6/19, 8:06 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Re: https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html

It may be a bit subtle, but I think that the tide has turned on the SpyGate scandal. The Deep State/LawFare people were fairly clever how they set up the Mueller investigation. Or maybe how it evolved. They created a very aggressive definition of Obstruction of Justice that essentially criminalized any interference with any criminal investigation, including esp their own, regardless of motive. It was never tested in court, would be rejected if it ever was tested there, and was ultimately rejected by AG Barr, DAG Rosenstein, and the DoJ OLC, whose job it is to interpret statutes for the Department. As I have noted before, it converted the specific intent Mens Rea Obstruction requirement into a general intent requirement. And it worked wonderfully for the Dems and Deep State, keeping the Trump Administration and Congressional Republicans on defense until the Democrats could capture the House last year, and shutdown the SpyGate investigations.

The Mueller investigation was shut down the only way that it could be, by unrecused AG Barr asserting oversight, and nailing down WTF Mueller and his band of hyper partisan Dem prosecutors were doing. Which turned out to have been pretending to investigate Russian collusion while actually using their unsanctioned and extremely egregious Obstruction interpretation to attack Trump and defend against being shut down. But the official purpose of the investigation was Russian Collusion, not Obstruction, so once Mueller admitted that the Russian collusion investigation had been over for better than a year, it was over except for writing up the report, which the hyper partisan Dem prosecutors stretched out as long as they could, but not long enough.

The key there is that they had planned for a smooth transition between the Mueller investigation and the Dem controlled House committees, as there had been between FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane and the Mueller investigation. Except that AG Barr moved more quickly than the House Dems could, and by the time that they could request that mountain of information, it was no longer under the control of Mueller and his prosecutors, who have essentially all been laid off, but AG Barr and the Trump Administration. I give the Dems very little chance at success in suing for that mountain of information, some of it dirt on Trump, etc, and much of it concerning spying by the Obama Administration on Trump and his people. They are suing, of course, but very, very, likely will lose. The Judiciary has shifted significantly towards the Republicans after the Republican Senate abolished Judicial filibusters and Blue Slips. And they cemented their control with the confirmation of Justice Kavenaugh (which is maybe why his confirmation was prioritized over AG Barr’s last fall).

The question now is how much of the illegal spying by the Obama Administration on its political enemies throughout much of his second term is made public, and whether it is going to be possible to hold any of the perps, below Obama, legally accountable. The next thing to watch is to see how much of what OIG is allowed to disclose in its recently completed investigation into FISA abuse. My bet right now is the FBI, under Dir Wray, will at least attempt to hide much of their own wrongdoing. AG Barr appears to have the legal authority, from Trump, to overrule Wray and the Deep State here, but may not have enough actual power over his Department to fully defeat them.

Should be interesting.; 7/6/19, 8:10 AM
narciso said...: Howard will never get it:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/resolved-we-people-demand-citizenship-question-be-required-within-2020-census; 7/6/19, 8:10 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “That was the point of the Philip Bump column. That sometimes — very rarely, with any normal President — there may be a flub in a speech. And normal people can find self-effacing humor and humanity in the error. But not only does Trump commit these flubs on a regular basis (causing many of us to wonder about his basic organic brain functioning); in the aftermath there is never, ever any acknowledgement of error by Trump. And indeed the explanations (or complete non-explanations as with “covfefe”) and excuses get more bizarre than the original errors.”

I think that a good part of this problem is that Presidents, in the past, have been highly scripted in what they said. This esp seemed true with Obama, who didn’t seem to be able to even tie his own shoes without his TelePrompTer. And, we still wonder, and don’t know, who exactly was writing his scripts, and pulling his strings. A lot of theories, many way out there, but we really don’t know. We did find out recently that it wasn’t his VP, Slo Joe Biden, who seems as clueless, and maybe even more the puppet, than Obama was.

That very definitely isn’t the case with Trump. He is comfortable speaking extemporaneously, something that Obama would never try, and esp after some early disasters after he went off script. That is what the Dems and Never Trumpers really seem to want, is an empty figurehead with sharp creases, and the ability to give pleasant scripted speeches in a pleasant voice. But that isn’t what much of the country wants. Rather, Trump connects with them because he is a very real person who talks about what they are interested in, and is unwilling to defer to his self identified betters who are more than happy destroying this country for personal profit and in the name of a one world government. When many of us hear about Trump mixing things up, we are reminded of Bluto’s speech in Animal House where the Germans were bombing Pearl Harbor. It is the thought and the emotion that is important, not the nit picking details. As has been repeatedly pointed out, while Trump may not be literally correct all of the time, he is figuratively correct most of the time.; 7/6/19, 8:44 AM
Howard said...: Blogger Rusty said...

Actually, Howard there are a lot of high skilled jobs out there for people with the skills. Welders, programmers, CNC machinists, auto mechanics, etc. Even if you're a half way decent welder, get thee to oil country. They'll train you to weld pipe. A lot of low wage menial jobs aren't being filled because there are so many better options out there.

You are right, Rusty. I was lucky enough to work in the steam patch for 2+ years during a boom. It's like the wild west. The key is getting out in time to something more stable or moving up the chain before you end up crippled, chemical sick or dead. It's probably much safer now, but still, that semi-vagabond life is a young mans game. They say college boys like working in the patch because joints are 30-feet long, dope comes in 5-gallon buckets and there's a pusher on every rig.; 7/6/19, 9:15 AM
Narr said...: Oh brother.

So people stroll through and drop vast global statements about issues of historical fact, and when challenged get all huffy and supercilious about how I am caricaturing their statements. In each case, on the living thread itself, I took issue and was ignored. I
even offered (as I am able to do any time I make a historical claim) actual sources for whatever notions I have. I did not claim that the Chinese had any analogs to the Western cases; others claimed the ancient Chinese had no real science--let them show that.

But like a Mandarin or medieval scholasticist addressing a novice, MM first quotes Authority, and then admits he's not really up on the question of ancient Chinese science anyway.

I haven't yet been set right on the libertarianism-slavery (or is it atheism-slavery?) connection, but as always I am open to enlightenment.

Narr
Waterclocks was the least of it; 7/6/19, 9:25 AM
Rusty said...: Because Howard has the vision of the anointed. he's better than the rest of us.; 7/6/19, 9:30 AM
Howard said...: Rusty's quiet desperation is inspiring.; 7/6/19, 9:40 AM
Rusty said...: Howard
?; 7/6/19, 12:50 PM
Mr. Forward said...: “The concerning part is the denial of reality” Chuck

“You think that would have happened on my watch or Barack’s watch?” the former vice president then asked. “You can’t answer that, but I promise you it wouldn’t have, and it didn’t.”; 7/7/19, 3:34 AM

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