He seems to think it's funny, his withdrawal of consent to this old-time practice:
"John Allen, a veteran Vatican journalist and editor of the online Catholic news site Crux, concurred, saying Francis’s actions Monday are one further move in a trend that’s continued since Pope John XXIII to 'dial down the tradition of subservience,' which has traditionally marked the papacy over the centuries, Francis’s reaction, he believes, is one further step to demystify one of the world’s most secretive institutions, and after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), popes have made gradual efforts to bring the office into the modern era," WaPo reports.
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39 comments:
Soon it will be, “Call me, Frank, I’m not your father.”
What a hassle it must be to clean the slobber off the ring after a long day on the throne.
By pulling his hand away it was almost as if he wanted them to miss the ring and continue downward...
If he doesn't want to represent what the faithful think he represents, maybe he should step down.
I recall Moe doing that to Curly once.
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
Pope Karl has other ways to show subservience. Eating the Climate Change shit sandwich, for example.
Circumspect people might want to see all the underlying documents before calling the Mueller Investigation a “hoax”.
The collusion scandal has ended.
The Clinton-Comey-Obama Axis of Evil scandal is just getting its scandal sandals laced up.
The Hoax Pope scandal wears it wearisome way toward schism.
Others, however, responded that Francis’s actions reflect a man who has garnered a reputation as the pope of the people, seeking to institute a more humble approach to the way in which Catholics engage the papal office.
Yeah, so humble that he thinks nothing of embarrassing and confusing those individuals. Not to mention the sheer rudeness of it. But he loves "the people".
"Oh, that Francis! He's such a pistol!".
I was visiting the Cathedral in Los Angeles about 15 years ago. Attended Mass. It's a wonderful place to visit for all kinds of reasons, the architecture, the design, the whole experience. I didn't take communion, of course, respecting the policies. After the service, we were walking around the campus and I realized about 50 yards away Cardinal Mahoney was greeting parishioners. Many were kissing his ring! He was making his way our direction. I had a momentary crisis. Should I be a good Protestant and take a stand, not bending when the ring was held out? Should I show respect for the office, even though I'm not in communion with that office? Years of tradition and history flooded my brain as he came closer and closer. When he approached us, he held out his hand for a handshake. Somehow he knew. I shook his hand, exchanged pleasantries, and we continued in our way. If only all church crises were handled so smoothly.
from a faithful Christian and Catholic ---
Saint Philip Neri used to joke around in a similar way,although only with people who knew him well, I think. So as not to be misunderstood.
This poor man (Father Bergoglio, Pope Francis) is old and --- well, we all know that old people are fond of repeating their little jokes .... and want to be thought of as comical, sometimes.
Or maybe he is just a bully, and being old is no excuse for that. I cannot look into his heart. I get it that life is hard on him too - I mean who signs up for a job where you have so many opportunities to make a bad choice, and you only start that job a few years after everyone your age has retired - but if he is a bully, he needs to repent.
And he also needs to repent for praising some very bad people, I don't care if he is old, and slightly dotty, it is just wrong to fulsomely praise unrepentant people who have been repeatedly cruel to the innocent (Emma Bonino, Cardinal Daneels, for example)
"one further step to demystify one of the world’s most secretive institutions"
You had me at Climate Change. Although I guess I should have expected to find Socialism giving Religion a reach around behind the dumpsters in the alley.
And who said it first? The Pope or Barbara Streisand?
You can stop now. No really.
Worst Pope ever...Ever!...Ever!
That ring/hand kissing stuff is a little too Godfather-esque,
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FDEAAOSwWxNYy5WH/s-l400.jpg
These displays of “humility” are embarrassing and indicate (like not allowing people to kiss his ring) that he sees himself as bigger than the office he holds.
The difficult with these displays is that they are not much more than theatrics. There are more substantial things Pope Francis might do to make his point. Wouldn’t a top to bottom house cleaning of the Vatican finances complete with total transparency do much more to make the point about poverty and faithful stewardship than the histrionics of living in the Casa St Martha? Wouldn’t it be truly humbling if the Pope were to root out the gay mafia in the church rather than promote them?
The fact is, when Catholics honor their priest they should be honoring Jesus in that man. The priest should understand that and echo St John the Baptist–pointing to Jesus and saying, “He must increase and I must decrease.”
Likewise, to kiss the pope’s ring is not to honor that man, but to honor St Peter, whose successor he is."
https://dwightlongenecker.com/should-you-kiss-the-popes-ring/
I think the Fonz invented this. "Ayyyyyy".
It's not a holy relic.
Instead of jerking his hand away with each supplicant, why aren't his protocol flunkies putting out the word to those at the head of the line, BEFORE they go before the pope and drop to their knees to kiss the ring, only to get the hand jerked away?
Too funny!
Are we certain he's not guiding the supplicant's lips elsewhere?
The gesture seems odd to Americans, and I wouldn't do it, but it is a form of respect and is a cultural practice.
And the Pope's rejection of this sign of respect for his office (not himself) shows lack of cultural sensitivity to his mainly Italian flock.
Here in the rural Philippines, the common gesture of respect ("mano po") is for the younger to bow and allow the back of the hand of the elder to touch his forehead, often saying "bless".
In other parts of Asia, they bow. In Japan, for example, knowing how to bow and who ceases to bow first is an imporant part of etiquette.
an addition to my previous comment: The Philippine Inquirer has an article on such customs of reverence toward our elders here, and the lament that as families fade and are replaced by the selfishness of modernity, the custom is fading, especially in urban areas.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/109755/mano-po-treasures
Maybe he's afraid of cooties.
What about boys and his Prince Albert ring?
All of the hard work of being seen as 'humble' only to show how he is unwilling to humble himself to the traditions and practices of the Church.
The key here is those people are not trying to kiss the ring of 'George Bergolio' but rather, to kiss the 'ring of the fisherman' which represents the position he presently holds.
True humility sometimes means doing something that you don't want - simple courtesy wasn't even practiced in this video.
The Pope may have been concerned about something like this:
45 And Jesus said, "Who touched Me?" When all denied it, Peter and those with him said, "Master, the multitudes throng and press You, and You say, 'Who touched Me?' " 46 But Jesus said, "Somebody touched Me, for I perceived power going out from Me." 47 Now when the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling; and falling down before Him, she declared to Him in the presence of all the people the reason she had touched Him and how she was healed immediately. 48 And He said to her, "Daughter, be of good cheer; your faith has made you well. Go in peace."
Does he wash feet too?
As a faithful Catholic, I am surprised to see the words “Pope Francis” and “jerk...” in the same headline. Surprised, and gratified.
Wow! Will plain Pontafex Maximus quit wearing the silly clothes and Dagon hat now? or are the Jesuits busy getting Catholics ready to merge equally with the Mormons and the Muslims.
My mother worked for a Bishop back in the Heimatstadt. She used to get off on the whole kissing the ring thing to the point where, even as a kid, it disgusted me. Monseigneur had a ruby clad in gold. He'd ruffle my hair while I looked at the all smudged up stone, then tell my mother that my kissing his (face) cheek would be fine.
Ironically, this Bishop's name was Head. Good on Pope Francis for messing with the honestly nasty tradition.
Although not a Catholic, I've seen quite a few popes in my lifetime. Some seem to have been OK [I rather liked Benedict] but some have been real clinkers. The current one is the clinkiest yet.
Likewise, to kiss the pope’s ring is not to honor that man, but to honor St Peter, whose successor he is."
Did Peter wear a ring?
How did ring get that symbolism?
On topic of Christianity, UK authorities are saying it's not religion of peace.
Are they citing language / evidence correctly?
Grandstanding. If he was serious about changing tradition, then don't wear the ring. Problem solved. After Benedict's intellect, and JPII's energy, this man is an embarrassment.
@Mark O,
Whenever I heard that Gospel reading growing up, it made no sense. Why would the woman expect Jesus to get bent out of shape over a touch? The Gospels don't give any indication that Jesus of Nazareth was someone who was known to fly off the handle & beat the everlovin' shit out of total strangers in crowds. So, what?
The key lies in the verses before:
And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse.
Whether the woman suffered menorrhagia (excessive menstrual bleeding) or bleeding hemorrhoids, the woman would have been seen by Jewish law at the time as a niddah, a menstruating woman & thus ritually unclean. And, clearly, known in her village as such. By touching Jesus, she would make Jesus unclean, too. That is why she expects Jesus to react in anger. Her courage was to risk Jesus' & perhaps the crowd's anger in the hope that the power of Jesus, the by then known miracle worker, might heal her. According to the Gospel, her faith did the number.
Since this account was written decades after the life of Jesus, I think one can see in this Gospel narrative the beginnings of the justification for the early Christian community to begin to move past the Jewish laws, especially as they concerned ritual uncleanliness to an understanding that there is no involuntary uncleanliness, there is just sin as an act of will.
He'll let him kiss his hand, but not his ring? Apart from that video looking awkward, weird, the symbolism behind what he is doing is much worse than just being disrespectful and patronizing to his most fervent believers. Kissing the ring shows obeisance to the church, kissing his hand shows obeisance to him.
He is (probably unintentionally) promoting a cult of personality. If his goal is to lower himself a peg or two, to be less remote from the laity, he should end the practice of kissing him at all.
gspencer said...
That ring/hand kissing stuff is a little too Godfather-esque,
No, the Godfather is a little Pope-esque.
Oh, that Jorge Bergoglio, what a card he is. You never know what he'll do next, that rascal.
The usual RC Church bait-and-switch, I see.
I'm not a believer, but I used to respect the Church for its intransigent conservatism. Not so much, anymore. It seems to have been taken over by the Lavender Mafia, or perhaps the Powers of the Air, or both.
Sad!
I'd want some antibacterial lotion applied to that thing in between kissings. You never know where the last guys lips have been.
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