My son John quotes the orientation leader of his study-abroad program. He's reading that Atlantic article — "Why Are So Few Male Students Studying Abroad?" — that we were talking about a few days ago here.
The quote in the post title pushes me to think of what Instapundit wrote when he linked to my post: "My hypothesis... People do study abroad in hopes of meeting new sexual partners. Men, heavily outnumbered on campus by women, don’t have to go abroad for that. Women, with a shortage of men on campus, do."
Let's put aside the part about the sex ratio at home and concentrate on the first assertion: "People do study abroad in hopes of meeting new sexual partners." Now, combine that with John's orientation leader: "Going to another country is giving up control. And women are more comfortable than men at not being in control."
I'm not sure what I want to say about "comfort" with "not being in control" when I think about it in terms of "hopes of meeting new sexual partners." Obviously, John's orientation leader was implying that women are better than men because they instinctively give up control. Quite aside from the problem of stereotyping people, should women be praised and encouraged for not taking control of what happens to them — that is, passivity?
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১১৬টি মন্তব্য:
Most people use Christine Columbus as an example of typical male cowardice.
Obviously, John's orientation leader was implying that women are better than men because they instinctively give up control.
I'd assume the implied narrative is that women are simply more accustomed to having control taken from them, at home and therefore abroad as well, and simply tolerate it better.
Isn't that statement by the orientation guy just another example of the attempt to make any difference between the genders an example of women being better than men?
However, when I traveled abroad, I actually more in control of my life. I think the orientation guy was just stupid.
OTOH, if you lose control in a foreign country, you have no rights and will sit in jail until the US Embassey can get to you. That doesn’t mean a free pass at all.
Having a daughter who studied abroad her junior year in Brussels, i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys. They are more, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. They are just braver.
Vicki from Pasadena
To some extent, in general, males are more dominant and females are more submissive.
These are inherent, evolved characteristics.
However, they are not absolute, and they can be altered by reasoning.
People do study abroad in hopes of meeting new sexual partners." Now, combine that with John's orientation leader: "Going to another country is giving up control. And women are more comfortable than men at not being in control.
Close.
Actually women want the excuse that they have lost control in order to behave irresponsibly without guilt. That's why women get drunk before sex, so they can tell themselves it wasn't me, it was the booze. Going overseas allows them a relatively risk free way of behaving irresponsibly without being judged for a while before returning home.
Praised and encouraged for being passive - I guess we should factor that in to the constant victimhood young women today seem to embrace. Everything triggers them. Micro aggression everywhere!
I am on the tail end of being a boomer. My mom was born not too long after the Great Depression. She liked being in control. As do I. As does my daughter.
That dude must lead an insulated life. He needs to get out and meet more women.
Or braver in different ways.
I think like Xtreme sports. I don’t think it was women who founded a lot of them.
Let me harness myself into a giant rubberband and jump off a .....
Those are boy things.
This is a perfect description of the ISIS bride. Happy to go to another country and be submissive.
Or coyote things.
I was thinking about the ISIS bride, too!!
How about people are individuals and make up their own minds what to do - be it travel or whatever. Our daughter did two months in Florence her senior year. Her brother probably won't go anywhere, as he had mono twice in two years and is a bit behind schedule. Has nothing to do with adventure, sex partners, or giving up control.
I didn't go abroad when I was in school because we couldn't afford it. Nothing to do with what anyone else was doing.
Women can be more adventurous because believe they are less likely to get slugged. Men are always aware that if they don't watch their step some guy will punch them out.
Holy cow where to begin...
1) Going to another country IS NOT giving up control. Maybe if you're stupid.
2) As decisions go it is among the most pro-active things you can do, certainly more pro-active than most humans' 'auto-pilot' lifestyles in their home countries.
3) So women are giving up control by making a decision to get access to more exotic sexual partners by making the decision to travel? Really?
4) In my extensive experience NO ONE is more uncomfortable with being out of control of any situation than a woman. NO ONE.
5) Going to another country is also a 'slut-avoidance' strategy for a lot of girls. It allows her to 'do dirt' away from the eyes of relationships at home she needs to preserve as well as - in the case of travelling with her friends - allowing her to bond with her sisters by 'getting wild and crazy' with foreign boys...together.
6) It is also a responsibility avoidance strategy.
There is absolutely positively nothing 'passive' about it. Nothing is 'just letting it happen' about going to another country. That is literally the whole point.
Wittgenstein says not that you lose control in a foreign culture but that you can't find your feet with it. You're still doing your own stuff.
Should women be praised and encouraged for not taking control of what happens to them?
No.
So many people are questioning their orientation at colleges these days that there is a need for an orientation leader.
Cool.
The number of sexual partners you've had in life is euphemistically referred to as you N.
I know for a fact that girls in my generational cohort have A) a higher N than any previous generation combined and that B) a distinctly high percentage of that N is accrued overseas. I know this because of my own experiences with American girls in foreign countries.
It is incredibly weird situationally. An American guy in the USA is 'just another American guy' but put said American guy in Paris or Berlin and - because it's a different place - they 'feel' the rules are suddenly different. It's 'the situation' not the suitor.
Don't even get me started on Italy...
Neither Ryan Lochte nor Otto Warmbier was in control of what happened after tearing down a poster in a foreign land.
Giving up control, putting ones trust in another, seems anti-individualistic. On the scale of Individualism versus Collectivism, I think typically men often tend a bit more towards individualism. I think us men like to imagine we have control of our own destiny, even if it's debatable that we do.
should women be praised and encouraged for not taking control of what happens to them — that is, passivity?
Is being passive always a negative thing? Is being a control freak always a negative thing?
The cliches and stereotypes of men not liking to ask for directions, not being willing to ask for help, and many other individualistic behaviors can be viewed as negatives I guess.
Thus the progress of Pro-Choice two choices too late. Also, decadal regrets, casting couches, etc. From observation of women over several generations, passivity is clearly a diverse characterization.
More pertinent question is ...
Do they know how to retain control when there is no sisterhood refuge? Or campus nannies.
should women be praised and encouraged for not taking control of what happens to them — that is, passivity?
What a stupid question. Either this is a spoof or your neurotic feminist.
It's all this pc metoo crap. I managed to graduate from one of the best engineering schools despite spending most of my time studying broads.
Men don't study abroad imo because there is very little abroad that most men believe will be useful. Better stem here, better business schools here, better ( or more prestigious schools HERE ). If you are studying soft stuff, then abroad would be fine.
I think the leader is wrong.
Obviously JAC has never done a home improvement project with a woman.
Girls go abroad to have unrestrictive sex. Out of the country they can be much more promiscuous.
Isn't the point that many places overseas are openly socialist so it's easier for girls from Brooklyn to get laid?
Men don't study abroad imo because there is very little abroad that most men believe will be useful.
If you don't have the skills to pick up girls here, how are you going to do any better overseas?
If you do have the skills to pick up girls here, why do you need to go overseas?
This makes me think about that movie "Taken".
Naivety is probably the best reason. Men are faced with different challenges than women, when they step in someone else's backyard.
Quite aside from the problem of stereotyping people, should women be praised and encouraged for not taking control of what happens to them — that is, passivity?
Our media keeps harping on men's toxic non-passivity.
When they told me I should study abroad, I misunderstood.
Nature v nurture? My control issues are a topic of (good natured) family ribbing. I am not a traveler. Just recently my sister and husband learned my “n” and both were surprised (I’m not going to say if that’s due to its being high or low).
I’m a female. But I’m the adult child of an alcoholic ( my mother spent years trying to get me to read books on that topic - I refused but did glean that control issues are supposed to be a product).
So is all of this bull or did my upraising make me atypical? Ultimately we will never know the answer and it just doesn’t matter.
5) Going to another country is also a 'slut-avoidance' strategy for a lot of girls. It allows her to 'do dirt' away from the eyes of relationships at home she needs to preserve as well as - in the case of travelling with her friends - allowing her to bond with her sisters by 'getting wild and crazy' with foreign boys...together.
Which is why so many go to Greece.
- Krumhorn
Greg said...
It's all this pc metoo crap. I managed to graduate from one of the best engineering schools despite spending most of my time studying broads.
**********
Many civil engineering students used to say they were minoring in Female Architecture.
My girlfriend's cousin (Dartmouth grad) actually got knocked-up in Germany in her late 20s by a Polish dude. She then did the following
1) Attempted to turn the relationship into something more permanent, which the Polish dude was having none of and skedaddled.
2) Attempted to strike up another relationship with a German guy who upon realizing her situation didn't want to be on the hook either.
3) Had her folks finance her return to the US to get an abortion.
4) Got an abortion.
5) Went BACK to Germany.
6) Ended up in a relationship with a Brit, which failed.
7) Came back home and started a graduate career in social work.
She is now in a relationship with some 'milquetoastish' dude in Chicago. She has dyed her hair pink. If this dude only knew and of course I've been sworn to secrecy.
The funniest thing is that - of course - nobody has an unkind word to say about her...to her face...while they certainly are all thinking it loudly.
I've spent quite a bit of time in the wilderness alone, either on horseback, in 4-wheel drive or camping. As much as I enjoy the beauty and solitude, not having to share control with any other humans is a big part of the appeal. You've got to pay close attention to your surroundings and weigh decisions carefully. I've only known 2 men interested in going along on my adventures. I realize that if I'd gotten in trouble any rescue/body retrieval would have been done by men. I think men prefer a plan and a goal. It's not about courage.
I am a woman. I studied abroad. and yes, I was more sexually promiscuous abroad than on campus.
Sex was the LAST reason that I went abroad. I actually was (am?) pretty shy sexually, and I thought I was in a solid relationship when I left the US to go abroad.
I studied abroad for two reasons: I wanted to travel, and I wanted to learn Spanish better. I wanted to be able to "think" in another language. I also thought that seeing another country would help me understand my own country better. Which was true, for sure.
Here's what happened though: once I was abroad, my "boyfriend" back on campus revealed to me that he was actually gay. In the meantime, I was so lonely for human contact that I became quite vulnerable to anyone who would bother to talk to me. That was one reason I started having more sex. The other reason I was more promiscuous was because many of the things that would normally inhibit me from sex ("what would my friends think about this guy", "what will other students/prospective partners think about me") were removed from the equation. So yeah, I became more slutty because nobody knew me and I would be leaving in 4 months so who cares if they thought I was a slut.
What bullshit. Going to Western Europe is like going to Disneyland. I don’t see many American girls In Easyern Europe or the Middle East or Africa. Honestly, I don’t see that many Americans at all where I go. And I want to keep it that way. I liked the American culture of my boyhood. Now, I don’t want to get much closer to a good number of you than this blog.
What gender is John's orientation leader?
If you go to Law School in America, presumably, near where you wish to work & live, wouldn't the same parameters apply ? Go to school near where you wish to live. And be that EU, and meeting a partner, would likely make that possible. Or starting a business would possibly make that possible as well. As per business schools there are some excellent schools in Europe frequented by experienced workers, and executives. And cost for some is far less than say Ivy League. Language does play a factor. But as per business schools, some programs are taught in English, considered a business language. Gotta research. American women I know living in Germany, per se, are very content and happy. And they are far from passive. Some working and raising kids, who are almost grown now. Unemployment in Germany is very low per capita. Spain and Portugal not so. And England uncertain the future with Brexit March 29. Ireland ? Holland ? Many factors to consider though. Family plans, financial health, cost of living, weather, desire for property, paying taxes: here and there, financial planning for retirement, healthcare, citizenship. In some cases you can track your ancestry and be eligible to apply for citizenship. Through marriage you can apply for residency, and later for citizenship. Less pending are things such as climate change, crime, and Brexit which is changing the dynamic in Europe: hot spots for business: Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Brussels, even Poland.
You go, nob490. The reason that women go abroad to study is not to have new sex partners or any of that crap. They go, primarily, because they are braver and more adventurous than men. They can see beyond their 4 walls in a dorm or apartment, and see in to the value of traveling abroad and learning about new cultures.
This whole crap that seeing red pontificates about concerning extreme sports,is just that, crap. Women don;t get involved in extreme sports is that they are too smart to do stupid things.
Maybe 30 years ago girls might have gone abroad to get more sex partners. Today, absolutely not.
vicki from Pasadena
Girls go abroad to have unrestrictive sex. Out of the country they can be much more promiscuous.
Nobody tell Lileks.
Military enlistment. That's a much greater loss of control. It's 3-1 men-women in the Navy and Air Force, 5-1 in the Army and 9-1 in the USMC.
What gender is John's orientation leader?
I clicked. John's orientation leader was a woman.
I'm not sure even a woman could get away with making that statement in 2019.
"i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys"
More of history's great explorers would have been women except that their husbands said, "No, you can't go. Now make me a sandwich."
Maybe studying abroad is less about studying and more about experiences abroad. Maybe male students know they have to put their nose to the grindstone to support a family, including a wife who probably will have spent semesters abroad.
"i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys"
Anyone who says men and women are different is a sexist unless they mean women are better.
Some people are so juvenile. You really should just shut up and quit embarrassing yourself.
Too true, RK too true.
Glad that women are over that bull.
Oh, BTW Rick, you are full of crap. That is not being sexist, it's just being right.
Vicki from Pasadena
victoria: "Having a daughter who studied abroad her junior year in Brussels, i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys"
LOL
Why not the Congo, or Yemen, or Djibouti, or Algeria?
victorias daughter, "bravely" venturing forth into one of the most wild and "untamed" cities in Western Europe.
My God, she's like the guys storming the beaches at Normandy in WW2.
Truly remarkable.
"Going to another country is giving up control. And women are more comfortable than men at not being in control."
Sure, and that explains why women so hugely outnumber men among people who uproot themselves--crossing the Atlantic in the olden days, crossing the Mediterranean today, or leaving the village in Mexico to go pick berries across the border.
Maybe they don't see a benefit over continuing whatever they're studying at home. Maybe they're right, maybe not. Do we know for a fact the studying abroad is an unadulterated good? How do we know that? Maybe the better choice, at least sometimes, is not to study abroad.
US Special Forces Command has to reject tens of thousands of female applicants.
Why?
Too darn adventurous.
As someone who actually works with college students, the situation is probably much easier to understand: it's a matter of the students academic programs. For STEM majors, one semester abroad is equal to a loss of an entire year of course work, except for a few specialized programs. I believe -- not certain -- it also artificially extends ROTC. In order to make any sense of this, there would have to be an indexed comparison of academic major and family income.
it looks like The Secret Secret about Motorcycles has some bearing on this.
The Secret Secret about Motorcycles is as follows:
Boys ride bikes, 'cause chicks like to ride on the back
chicks like to ride on the back 'cause they THINK THEY'RE GOING TO DIE, and have no control
Thinking they're going to die, and having No Control; makes chicks HORNIER THAN SHIT
which leads to:
Boys ride bikes, 'cause chicks like to ride on the back
At this point, some little old lady from Pasadena (or some place), will say:
Oh, that's TOTALLY NOT TRUE!, I'm SUPER BRAVE
To which, i'd say; 'plains why you were never on the back of my bike
If I had a nickel for every woman big game hunter out there bagging rhinos and monster crocs, I would be a rich man.
It's a shame the Wright Sisters didnt get their due credit for human flight.
Instead, their dumb younger brothers got all the glory.
victoria said...
Too true, RK too true.
Glad that women are over that bull.
Oh, BTW Rick, you are full of crap. That is not being sexist, it's just being right.
Lets talk about the shape of the IQ bell curve.
It isn't sexist, it's just being right.
Oh wait I forgot we are only allowed to make women look better than men and that is a discussion about relative shape that is rather neutral.
Because we aren't sexist...
Now about Vicki's place on that bell curve...
Drago,
women don't need to prove themselves by bagging a rhino or a monster croc. Only men need to prove their masculinity by doing such juvenile things.
vicki from Pasadena
Really, Achilles, you are basing your sexism by using a bell shaped curve, which is inherently sexist and racist? That it has been proven to be so and has been rejected as a standard?
Oops
Vicki from Pasadena
The obvious point that needs to be made:
There are more opportunities for women to study abroad.
There is more funding.
There are more scholarships.
They are treated much more favorably in schools at all levels than boys.
There are so many women only programs for traveling abroad it is just natural that there are more girls doing it.
The fact that 5 boys drop out of high school for every girl contributes.
The fact that 20 men are incarcerated for every woman contributes.
Women are just treated better than men in almost every facet of society.
victoria said...
Really, Achilles, you are basing your sexism by using a bell shaped curve, which is inherently sexist and racist? That it has been proven to be so and has been rejected as a standard?
Oops
Vicki from Pasadena
Actually I was making an obvious point about how sexist you are.
I was also making a point about how stupid you are.
The bell curve for male IQ is flatter by the way. The averages are about the same but men are far more represented at the high and low ends.
You are just middling stupid. Probably in the 80ish range.
In my early 20s, a frat bro and I spent two summers working jobs in eastern Washington. When not hard at work we dated the locals teens . It was right out of American Grafitti in a valley town surrounded by farmland. To my surprise the chics all wanted to spend some time with us just because of our southern accents. Women out for fun want new experiences. Boredom in the same crowd is not acceptible.
Participation in short-term programs is booming, while the number of students studying abroad for a full year is decreasing.
"Students studying STEM fields make up the largest group of students studying abroad by field."
"Students studying STEM fields make up the largest group of students studying abroad by field. Rounding out the top five fields of study, about a fifth (20.7 percent) of students studying abroad are studying business, 17.2 percent are studying social science fields, 7.3 percent are studying foreign languages and international studies, and 6.3 percent are studying fine and applied arts."
"The proportion of students studying on short-term programs continues to grow: 64.6 percent of all students who studied abroad in 2016-17 did so on summer programs or those that were eight weeks or fewer in length."
28 times as many people go for "summer or eight weeks or fewer" than go for "Long-term (academic or calendar year)".
So most "study abroad" is essentially a short vacation where someone else takes care of the details.
It was right out of American Grafitti in a valley town surrounded by farmland
My wife's family lives there...
I am just waiting for Ann to come in here and bitch about comments and the personal attacks.
Ann will totally paper over Vicki calling everyone who disagrees with her sexist racist whatever.
Vicki is an idiot and resorts to "SEXIST RACIST HATER" immediately rather than have a good faith discussion.
People on the left are incapable of discussing anything in good faith.
But it only bothers Ann when the deplorables point out how awful leftist shit heads like Vicki are. You have been mis characterizing us for decades.
You are the problem. The people like Vicki spewing obviously sexist crap and calling anyone who disagrees with her racist and sexist are the problem.
I would think more guys are college athletes, who can't just go away for a year or a term and pick up where they left off.
The orientation leader is spouting psychobabble. I'd be astonished if there were a scintilla of evidence from even dubious sociological "research" to support the assertion. (I thought Instapundit's hypothesis was pretty dumb, too.)
Vicki from Pasadena: Having a daughter who studied abroad her junior year in Brussels, i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys.
Wut? The second clause doesn't follow from the first. Yeah, my daughter did the junior year study abroad in Spain, but what that has to do with her personal courage, or the relative adventurousness of males and females in general, I do not know. And neither do you, Vicki.
(And Brussels, Vicki? Brussels?! Nothing wrong with visiting or studying in Brussels, but nobody deserves a red badge of courage for doing so.)
Historical and biological evidence don't support your silly assertion, either.
Far more likely is that more girls do officially-sanctioned "study abroad" programs because those programs are oriented toward "soft" fields of study. I doubt more American females than males are doing research in STEM fields in foreign countries. (Those kinds of exchanges are not part of standard undergraduate "study abroad" programs.)
Women don;t get involved in extreme sports is that they are too smart to do stupid things.
Not based upon your history of comments.
Really, Achilles, you are basing your sexism by using a bell shaped curve, which is inherently sexist and racist? That it has been proven to be so and has been rejected as a standard?
IQ tests and the bell curve are not only accurate and true, they are the most accurate and true features of social science. The tests have been shown to be free of bias concerning both gender and race. To deny these truths is either ignorance or willful self delusion.
I understand your discomfort. The facts concerning IQ are upsetting to me also. But that doesn't make them any less true.
Bell curves are inherently sexist and racist? WTF.
I think someone only heard about the book and didn't understand the title was a reference to something else. Sounds like a strong source!
Having quite a few gay friends and associates (who doesn't?), and seeing in them that they often have some of the traits and dispositions of the hetro gender they are replacing, I wonder if gay men are more comfortable with not being in control than hetero men? It's not true for the gay men I know who take the more masculine role in relationships, but I wonder about the other side.
I remember Trump once said his riskiest business years were spent in the indoor sport of seducing trophy women. That was true of many of the foolish men of our generation. The women were smart enough to do that outside of the place where they live and somewhere no one sees who knows them.
victoria: "Really, Achilles, you are basing your sexism by using a bell shaped curve, which is inherently sexist and racist?"
Math is sexist and racist and Totally Uncool!!
And dont get me started on Fibonacci numbers!! Those numbers will pinch your butt!!
Some people hear have made Valid points though
While their daughters were showing the indomitable courage that it takes to spend a summer in Brussels; those Cowardly Boys (COWARDLY!) (BOYS!) were cowering in Afghanistan and Iraq
Because; You KNOW what takes REAL COURAGE! Spending a summer in Brussels!
How can a statistical distribution be racist or sexist? It's just numbers graphically represented. The methodology to get the numbers can be, but a bell curve is an expected distribution that is one of the most common in any set of numbers measuring a population trait. It's so common that it's almost a proof in itself of a good study.
victoria: "Drago,
women don't need to prove themselves by bagging a rhino or a monster croc."
Thousands of rhinos and monster crocs will sleep more soundly tonight, thank goodness.
Math class is tough!
bagoh20: How can a statistical distribution be racist or sexist?"
Uh, easy. First, bell curves can be mistaken for a breast.
Secondly, its always against a white background.
Duh.
Thus, probability distributions are literally the KKK AND Hitler.
Dont bother arguing with victoria further about this.
gilbar: "Because; You KNOW what takes REAL COURAGE! Spending a summer in Brussels!"
Did you know that sometimes, deep in the Brussels metro area, sometimes it can take up to 20 minutes to get your appetizers in a restaurant!!
Worse yet, sometimes they run out of sparkling water!!
Oh the Humanity!!
I visited South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Spain, United Arab Emirates, Djibouti, Columbia, and a host of other places-and was never in control once in the choice of places.or the time of the visit. When the vessel I was assigned to got there- so did I.
There are a lot more male sailors, both merchant and military, traipsing around the world than female sailors.
A college student travelling abroad isn't giving up control of anything. Said student is choosing to go, on their own terms, and can return home at will.
I don't thing John' orientation leader has clue what "giving up control" means, in any context.
"or a monster croc"
Now that is a macroaggression.
As a semi monstrous croc, whose kind has been historically oppressed by humankind (as proven by countless shoes and handbags, the horror!) I am obliged to feel unsafe, and require not merely an apology from you, but your complete deplatforming forever.
victoria, show us on the doll where L'Hospital's Rule touched you.....
I am a little surprised as I would have thought every lefty would at a minimum have an affinity with trigonometric identities....
...(see what I did there?)....
"I would think more guys are college athletes, who can't just go away for a year or a term and pick up where they left off."
Good point.
Now that is a macroaggression.
As a semi monstrous croc, whose kind has been historically oppressed
Ah, but Buwaya Puti, your FULL name means WHITE Crocodile. So I think we all know who's been doing the oppressing here.
Of course, my sister went on a couple of trips abroad in high school and college, and I never did.
My thinking was, the family can't afford it. Don't know what her thinking was.
FH: Maybe they don't return and instead play on our German Basketball teams. Soccer teams not as much.
Perhaps the difference in the numbers is due to men and women having different interests in terms of what they are studying. Men as a group are more likely to be studying STEM, while women as a group are more likely to be studying the arts and humanities, courses of study that are more likely to have a reason to go abroad. I don't think it really has anything to do with loss of control or a search for romantic partners, just that certain majors are more likely to be enhanced by foreign study, and women tend to be in those majors.
Just the other day Althouse pointed out that articles comparing men and women always treat the women in a more favorable light.
It's a journalistic "tell" that the writer is a feminist or SJW, or both.
"Ah, but Buwaya Puti, your FULL name means WHITE Crocodile. "
Species trumps race!
Drago and bagoh,
I'll be that you are the kind of people who feel that the "whole world" is rigged against you. Bull
Read this article to get some perspective. You both could use some
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/im-worried-my-son-wont-get-good-college/582979/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=the-atlantic-fb-test-801-2-&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR0VTjN3SrDajNwmm_IntyCXJ9pRtx1RiC1MvUDmQANFRR8_Cri0dk1fWOg
Vicki from Pasadena
It's so common that it's almost a proof in itself of a good study.
That is very bad science.
Make data fit the curve science.
Personally, I find my control increases when I go to foreign parts.
I grow a pith helmet on my head, and suddenly I have a way with the natives.
Granted, every land under the sun is foreign to me, including this one.
The past is another country. Heaven only knows what people think today. But, when I went abroad for a term in1968, it was to get exposed to some Western Civilization. Meanwhile, at home,LBJ announced he wasn’t running, MLK was shot, the west side of Chicago burned down, and RFK was shot the day after I got back. I still got the Western Civ, though. I wouldn’t trade that for anything.
I'd like to challenge the premise that visiting another country is in any sense giving up control.
I did not study abroad when I was in college - it wasn't really a thing then except at the most elite of schools. I have traveled to other countries a decent amount as an adult and wouldn't say that I give up control (of whatever) when I do. Rather I plan a very detailed itinerary and would say exert much more control, and less whimsy, than when I'm at home. This is usually because I don't speak the local language and am much less willing to trust things to chance.
Maybe the threat to women is overblown.
I think of my life as a young boy. I can think of three situations where I was at serious risk of injury because of violence. I had what I would consider a wonderful childhood.
My daughter never experienced anything close to that, and has travelled the world.
Maybe men through their experience see the world as dangerous. Women in their experience don't. Because their experience is different.
“...those Cowardly Boys (COWARDLY!) (BOYS!) were cowering in Afghanistan and Iraq.”
It’s not only “boys” who went to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Yes, boys went, and men came back.
“Yes, boys went, and men came back.”
Women went and most women came back. Some didn’t.
The French have a saying that explains it all:
Sentire une langue étrangère, c'est vivre de nouveau
"It's so common that it's almost a proof in itself of a good study."
"That is very bad science.
Make data fit the curve science."
I expected someone would have a problem with that. My point was that bell-shaped curves are the distribution that most studies show, becuase it's natural that there is a larger concentration toward the study's target, or what is common about a population, and extremes are by definition less numerous. If your study shows some other shape, it's more appropriate to be skeptical and recheck you methods than with a a bell curve. You get other shapes when you have a serious error in math or some other part of the methodology. I'm not saying that you should accept results just because they have a bell curve or any other self-assuring distribution.
Women went and most women came back. Some didn’t.
looks like (in Afghanistan and Iraq):
139 females KIA (GOD bless them)
6692 males KIA (GOD bless them)
139 is a LOT,
6692 is an order of magnitude larger than 139,
Both are Several Orders of Magnitude larger than the number of college co-eds KIA in Brussels
Women understand, inherently, they are protected. No matter where they roam.
As they should be.
Protected by men, inherently. As they should.
This is the natural world--not the world you see on tv commercials, Marvel..er, Disney movies, or musings from a pink-haired blogstress.
Are women brave? Some are, some aren't.
I hope that troll from Pasadena never has to find out first hand what is what.
Follow the money/major
I picked up and moved to a different country for several years. A majority of those that I knew who did the same were men, though it wasn't a huge majority.
As for those who study abroad you should control for major. I wouldn't want to take a STEM class in a foreign language.
@Freeman Hunt - Title IX changes things a lot
Inga: "Women went and most women came back. Some didn’t."
Were any of them named Heather Heyer?
If not, according to Lefty Rules they dont count.
victoria The Confused: "I'll be that you are the kind of people who feel that the "whole world" is rigged against you."
Nonsense!
Only the Drive-thru's are rigged agaonst me.
They always screw you in the Drive-thru's.....
Oh, and trying to work with German employee Work Councils. That deal is rigged against any non-EU entity that purchases a German company and then tries to integrate it.
Double ugh!
Viking men didn't seem to be worried about not being in control abroad. Maybe we could encourage our young men today to emulate the Vikings. There's a lot of cultural riches to be had in Europe by the bold boy.
Vicki from Pasadena: Having a daughter who studied abroad her junior year in Brussels, i believe that girls are just more adventurous than boys.
Wut? The second clause doesn't follow from the first. Yeah, my daughter did the junior year study abroad in Spain, but what that has to do with her personal courage, or the relative adventurousness of males and females in general, I do not know. And neither do you, Vicki.
Our Son and Daughter both did the Study Abroad. Like a lot of things that pertain to kids/young adults choices, the Nurture part of nature/nurture, is the driving force in those decisions. We encouraged and supported their decision to study abroad. We eliminated what ever psychological, monetary, emotional or financial hurdles, real or perceived might have existed. We talked about it before they had picked a college. Make no mistake it was 100% their decision, but the culture of our home was unconditional support and encouragement.
This influence dwarfed any XY chromosome influence.
The Onion covered this back in 1999.
https://www.theonion.com/european-men-are-so-much-more-romantic-than-american-me-1819594261
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