"... contain damage from comments Mr. King made to The New York Times questioning why white supremacy is considered offensive. The punishment came on a day when Mr. King was denounced by an array of Republican leaders, though not President Trump. The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, suggested Mr. King find 'another line of work' and Senator Mitt Romney said he should quit. And the House Republicans, in an attempt to be proactive, stripped him of the committee seats in the face of multiple Democratic resolutions to censure Mr. King that are being introduced this week.... Mr. King, who has been an ally of President Trump on the border wall and other issues, has a long history of making racist remarks and insults about immigrants.... [I]n an interview with The Times published last week, Mr. King said: 'White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?'... 'This is not the first time we’ve heard these comments,' [said the minority leader Kevin McCarthy]. 'That is not the party of Lincoln and it’s definitely not American.'"
The NYT reports.
Trump should say something.
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144 comments:
For Christ's sake, these morons are really Republicans?
And they're going nuts over white supremacy and white nationalism?
Why don't they just bend over in front of the Democrats and spread open their butt cheeks?
King is too damn stupid to be in the House and that’s saying something. He’s now nearly worthless to his constituents.
Note to GOP chuckleheads: We voted for Trump.
We hate the way you morons cave in to every PC hysteria. Grow a pair.
Trump already said something:
"Racism is evil -- and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said in response to the attacks in Charlottesville.
To continue to have to say something is a political act by those who want to keep connecting his name with white nationalism.
Yet, the irony of the Congressional Black Caucus censuring King for being (falsely) accused of basically calling for a Congressional White Caucus.
Read Derbywhire on what gets called white supremacist
https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-12-02.html#05
(a response to an essay by McWhorter)
There are open questions that PC likes closed. At least know what you're talking about.
I have no idea what King said and don't expect to find out in the hysteria.
I know that the Perpetual Outrage Machine over what someone said is unstoppable, but is it really too much to ask the full context in which someone says something that is deemed offensive? And is it also too much to ask what exactly the person meant with what he said, which might have just been a clumsy jumble of words?
He might just be anti-hysteria. The point of the hysteria being to keep something from being said or thought.
Maybe that's not a good political structure.
Trump will say there are good people on both sides. One side is virtue signalling.
Is it another grab them by the pussy moment, sudden hot button outrage that dies out over the course of a few years.
All we know for sure is that the guy is a racist, which only means asshole today.
Blacks think whites are supreme, or they wouldn't be migrating to white-run countries.
Who migrates to Haiti.
I more or less know what is meant by "Western civilization" and "white supremacy," but "white nationalism" beats me, as does this whole chivaree.
Steve King musing about how these terms came to be like the "n-word" and too poisonous to be even mentioned in polite company? Just the words themselves being worse than the actions implied by their worst possible connotations?
These are indeed wondrous times!
So many one-liners could loosen up the PC stranglehold on the politics.
The first thing to do is be an asshole so as to knock down the guardrails the media carefully set up before any discussion of anything.
Setting up guardrails is also known as talking past the sale.
How should King be punished is talking past the sale.
What did he do is not open for discussion.
He's white, so automatically he is guilty. I wish others in Congress would get this same treatment, but they don't have white privilege!
It becamse poisonous because it gets soap opera women clicks. MSM business model. Democrats free-riding on it.
King was pretty stupid to say what he did. Anything any repub says will be taken out of context like this.
On the other hand, as ST said, he and the Repubs should fight back.
What he said, IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HE HE WAS SAYING, was kind of the opposite of what he is being vilified for.
John Henry
David Begley said...
King is a republician, and they are no longer the majority in the US House . He’s now nearly worthless to his constituents.
There David, fixed it for you!
The anti semites are loud and proud. They take in 80% of elected Dems. The Muslim congress critters wear their bigotry of Jews and homosexuals, just to name afew.
King's statement deserves examination, not censure. Universities have gone to war against Western Civics. Why
King, exactly like Rush, get shorthanded into, 'everyone knows they are racist' but no one can produce evidence.
Republicans have watched President Trump, not back down, not apologize, throw the dirt back on his accusers. Most importantly advance the Republican Platform, with out help from Republicans.
Republicans have no desire to govern. They are weak, lazy, and stupid. Republicans are much more suited to be the loyal opposition. Talk is cheap.
The hysterical two minute hate of today.
Kill him, ruin him, destroy his family, his job, his life.
That bastard was standing up for Western Civilization. We can't have that !!!
Conservative Inc. is with the destroyers.
I was reminded of the need for caution a few weeks ago when I heard PDJT talk about fake news.
The interviewer kept trying to get him to say the words "media" and "enemy of the people" in the same sentence. He's never said that, only that "fake news" is the enemy of the people.
PDJT had to come up with some really screwy sentence structures to deny saying "the media is the enemy of the people" without actually putting the words together.
Had he not done that, had he said "I have never said the media is the enemy of the people. I have only said that fake news is the enemy of the people." the sound bit would have been "...the media is the enemy of the people..." and we would be hearing it 20 times a day.
It is like the Netflix(?) exec who got fired a few weeks ago for condemning the use of the word "n|gger" in some company meeting. Doesn't matter how you use it, you're out.
King should have know better.
John Henry
King was criminally stupid to even talk to a scumbag from the NY Slimes. Talk about the stupid party....
It's always maddening to me how these comments get pushed to the forefront of our conversation but someone like Farrakhan? Nah.....
The other day my daughter sent me a bunch of texts talking about how dangerous the Jews were becoming. How Jews needed to be killed. Etc, etc, etc. Theses were all headline on sites like Huffington Post and mainstream publications. Then, the surprise ending. Change Jews to Whites and you get the real headlines.
There is a double standard and many are starting to notice.
This won't end well.
The party of Tom Hayden & Bill Ayres is having the vapors about someone using the word "white nationalist" in a neutral sense.
From King's Wikipedia page:
"King attended Northwest Missouri State University from 1967 to 1970, and was a member of the Alpha Kappa Lambda fraternity, majoring in math and biology, but did not graduate. While in college, King received "2S" deferments in 1967, 1968, and 1969."
Anybody majoring in math and biology is going to be racist. Biology for the genes and math for the social insensitivity.
2S deferments are social policy, not something the student thinks up.
According to the left White Supremacy includes adopting European developed norms like objectivity, the rule of law, and due process. But not today.
Again we see media supporting that words mean whatever is most advantageous to the left even if that contradicts yesterday's definition.
If he says something he will make it worse.
Racial insensitivity does not always equal racism.
King has been an embarrassment for a long time. It's a relief that he finally crossed a line he can't uncross. He'll be gone within a week.
Good for Republicans for reigning in King. Yes, Trump should say something.
Now, Ann, can we ask who in the Democratic Party will get around to saying something about Rashida Tlaib (with her vile "dual loyalty" slander), Linda Sarsour (friend of terrorists), Keith Ellison and Tamika Mallory, who whitewash their worship of sexist, homophobic anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan (if "Jews as Termites" fame), Ilhan Omar ("Israel has hypnotized the world') or Ocasio-Cortez and others who actually ask me to believe their support for BDS is not anti-Semitic. Or perhaps you do not think support for BDS is the equivalent of King's offensive comments about white nationalism. Sorry, but I do think so, and I can easily support that belief.
The Republicans do get around, in the end at least, to cutting their ties to their bigots, like David Duke. Every one of the people I name above is every bit as vile as Duke, but they get a pass from the "tolerance-diversity" party. That party will never get a single vote from me until it exorcizes this rot from its midst.
If I had written, "Trump should say something," I'd expect the Althouse comments page to blow up with personal attacks on me. So far, this comments page seems to be proving that the Venn Diagram showing the overlap of Steve King fans and Trump supporters is almost a perfect, single circle.
But in fact, I would not have written that "Trump should say something," for a couple of reasons. One is that Trump's "saying something," nearly always makes it worse. Whatever the subject, a Trump pronouncement usually makes everything worse; dumber, more divisive, a greater distraction from things of larger importance.
A second reason that I would not have suggested that Trump should say something is because Trump actually did say something yesterday, that sort of disqualifies him from saying anything else. What Trump said to reporters about the Steve King controversy was, "I haven't been following it. I really haven't been following it."
So if one hasn't been following the Steve King controversy, or the previous multiple Steve King controversies unfolding almost non-stop since last November and beyond, it is probably best to say that, and not say anything else. If Trump does now say something (and I expect that he might, per what is sound political messaging advice from Althouse), the next question will be, "When did you start following the matter of Steve King's statements and why? Because you said that you weren't following it yesterday."
And note well, Althouse readers. The blog hostess mentioned Steve King just a month ago, after the Weekly Standard's owner determined to close the publication, and King was Tweeting triumphantly about it. And John Podhoretz used the occasion to continue the Weekly Standard's long fight against King. The Weekly Standard; they warned you about Rep. Steve King before any of this.
But what about?
But what about?
But what about?
But what about?
@Chuck
There's nothing wrong about being a white nationalist.
The entire population of white supremacists could fit in two buses.
You're a dummy, Chuck.
And, Chuck, in advance of your demented asshole yammering about racism and bigotry...
Go fuck yourself.
The shame of whiteness dares not lift its chin. King is unanimouly branded mentally ill. And it's all that Russian guy Trump's fault. CNN knows.
Shorter version: burn the witch!
Dating to ask an uncomfortable question that actually does require an answer. This we cannot abide.
Once again, the cure is worse than the disease.
The GOP has a history of animal abuse and cruelty in its gun-obsessed NRA members. I can't speak to its NBA members. They're mostly black anyway, so they don't count. It's also the home of racists, and deplorables like Schlump and his millions of mischievous minions.
Imagine there's no Klan
It's not easy unless you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the white supremacists
Living for today (ah ah ah)
Imagine there's no Africa
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the white supremacists
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm Chuck Schumer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join the Klan
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of white supremacists
Imagine all the white supremacists
Dominating the whole world
You may say that I'm Chuck Schumer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join the Klan
And the world will live in hell.
“Mr. King, who has been an ally of President Trump on the border wall and other issues, has a long history of making racist remarks and insults about immigrants.... “
The thing is that politically motivated liars have said the very same thing about President Trump. So he (Trump) needs to tread lightly here if at all.
People let need words trigger their emotions far too easily in general and especially lately.
He's asking a question, not calling for genocide. Maybe learn to distinguish between two unlike things.
Now when are the Democrats going to punish their racists and anti-Semites?
I don’t discern a measurable difference between Trumpit’s lyrics and Lenin’s (sic) original.
I don't discern a detectable intelligence in Trumpit's posts, so they tend to promote progressivism. What a shock.
Have any Democrats censured Rashida Tlaib for her racism?
'White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?'...
When you lump "White supremacist" with western civilization - you just lost your point.
The left already falsely accuse everyone of being a racist. If you are actually going to say something that is racist, you are not helping.
Steven King has a Rush Limbaugh problem. And by that I mean, he was trying to get a certain point across, but it came out wrong. It's simply the poor stringing of workds and pauses.
Here is Rep. Steve King’s statement.
"One of my quotes in a New York Times story has been completely mischaracterized. Here’s the context I believe accurately reflects my statement.
In a 56 minute interview, we discussed the changing use of language in political discourse. We discussed the worn out label “racist” and my observation that other slanderous labels have been increasingly assigned to Conservatives by the Left, who injected into our current political dialog such terms as Nazi, Fascist, “ White Nationalist, White Supremacist,— --Western Civilization, how did THAT language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”…just to watch Western Civilization become a derogatory term in political discourse today. Clearly, I was only referencing Western Civilization classes. No one ever sat in a class listening to the merits of white nationalism and white supremacy.
When I used the word “THAT” it was in reference ONLY to Western Civilization and NOT to any previously stated evil ideology ALL of which I have denounced.
My record as a vocal advocate for Western Civilization is nearly as full as my record in defense of Freedom of Speech.
King’s mistake was his obliviousness. Any Republican who doesn’t understand that they aren’t permitted to even mention words like “white” and “black” are fools. I no longer ask for my coffee black. I say “Without cream.” And even that’s dangerous.
Steve King responds:
Statement on NYT Article
So if you're a Republican and you condemn 'racist remarks,' it's only because you're 'scrambling to appear tough on racism,' not because you really disapprove of the remarks, so you're a racist.
And if you're a Republican and don't immediately and positively condemn 'racist remarks' whenever and wherever they are made, you're a racist.
Nice work, if you can get it.
What's an example of a racist remark.
Again, King was not being clear. He was sloppy in the way he strung it all together.
“Blogger Henry said...
But what about?
But what about?
But what about?
But what about?”
I’ve noticed that cries of “whataboutism” are the latest Lefty response whenever anyone points out their grotesque hypocrisy. I understand that they’ve run out of excuses for their absurdities, but this ploy is particularly lame. It just intensifies the focus on the hypocrisy in question.
What did he do?
Is there a distinction between true racist remarks and false ones, if there are racist remarks.
Might the former not be an important part of public policy debates.
I've just read through the list of Steve King scare quotes in the NYT. I have never reviewed this material, or studied King before. A slightly better Steve King could have clarified: I don't believe all cultures or civilizations are equal. Some are better than others. As far as I'm concerned, there is none better than Northern European, aka Western Civilization. What is good in Western Civilization probably has nothing to do with race: people of all races have already joined and contributed to it, and will continue to do so. There may come a time when the majority of people celebrating Western Civilization are not white.
Unfortunately, he is attracted to the coincidence that white people have been in the driver's seat--the very thing that tends to enrage people, whether non-white or not, who are aware of the grave injustices that have been done. So: he doesn't quite nail it in today's clarification, but he may have a point. He was saying that in general, "conservatives" are condemned by many terrible names that, as far as he is concerned, do not apply: Nazi, fascist, racist, white supremacist. Then without starting a new sentence, he says "Western civilization--how did that language become offensive?," and explains that he once studied Western civilization, and he is convinced it is a good thing--above average, let us say. He has probably never thought or said much about China or the Indian sub-continent.
"...as party officials scrambled to appear tough on racism.."
Every NYT story is an Op-Ed.
There need to be more mega-aggressions in the media.
You gotta love how Althouse puts King's draft deferment data out there for what could only be for shame and derision -- and this barely a week after she passionately defended (in the comments) all the "good" men in her life being opposed to the war.
Is this not rank hypocrisy? Explain.
Free speech is dead.
Limited blogger asked..What did he do?
Althouse told you. Now pounce, damnit!
It doesn't matter what Trump or Republicans do, it will be (and already is) framed as "...scrambled to appear tough on racism...". Republicans, you know, the party that ended slavery, are always racist. Sometimes they will try to appear not, but we know they really are.
SO, has Rashida Tlaib been assigned a committee yet, so she can be booted from it for her racist remarks against PDT?
alanc709 said...SO, has Rashida Tlaib been assigned a committee yet, so she can be booted from it for her racist remarks against PDT?
Give it time. In 5 years, Tlaib will be mainstream Democrat. They gotta get rid of some Diannesaurs.
'That is not the party of Lincoln and it’s definitely not American.'"
Lincoln thought the n-words should be in the L-place and not in the g-ment.
To M Jordan and others making the point that King should have known better than to even bring any of this up - true enough.
But that does not negate my point that the overreaction is much worse than the “offense” for us as a culture and as a people. Nothing good that way lies.
King was speaking extemporaneously and was a bit imprecise. The penalty for that in a society that values free speech should be vigorous criticism, not banishment.
The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...
I’ve noticed that cries of “whataboutism” are the latest Lefty response
I'm glad you noticed my comment, but you seem confused about who is making the whataboutist comments in this thread.
Why do Repubs even give the time of day to the American Pravdas like the NYT or Wapo? Repubs should shun them until they stop embargoing stories which are unfavorable to Dems.
His mistake was speaking thoughtfully and substantially to the NYT.
Which he was, in wondering how the culture of the US had gotten to the point of hating itself, which was his point.
Anything like that, which would be an interesting topic for civilized men in any normal age, is just foolish today, because your culture is too far gone to substantially discuss anything of interest, including its own disastrous condition.
These are not normal times.
The US right wing is constantly making that mistake. US provincials of all sorts, rather, are making that mistake. Too many assume that things are normal and civilized, as they may seem to be at home. But in the capitals where their enemies rule, things are not normal. These places are on a war-footing, culturally.
The only useful mode of public speech today, by a Republican, is as part of a coordinated propaganda system, to contend with the vastly larger MSM and institutional propaganda system. The content of which is largely irrelevant, just providing mass to be flung with as much force as possible. This is not a debate, it is a logistical and organizational exercise.
In war only propaganda matters, and victory comes from volume, not sense or cleverness.
Please excuse me, but why should blatantly racist comments bother the NYT who HIRE people who make blatantly racist comments? Did they fire Sarah Jeong? No? (Snaps fingers)
Besides, I can walk into any ghetto in America, Black or Hispanic and hear racist insults and find racist national movements.
When the NYT and the DNC decide to crack down on them, then they will have any moral standing to comment on that kind of rhetoric and not before.
but you seem confused about who is making the whataboutist comments in this thread.
So to sum up: Left wingers invented a new name to justify their own hypocrisy and apparently believe it's something other people care about.
People who live in cocoons don't function well outside them.
Dickin'Bimbos presents a good defense for King, but you will only read such words in the comments section here. Nobody will get on television and present such arguments in King's defense. I suppose you can say that King has lost his case.......But not all arguments are won in public discourse. Like Jon Burack above, many of us note that King is not the only person in Congress who has made foolish statements, but he is the only one who has pulled down the wrath of heavens upon himself for such statements. John Conyers, for example, was allowed to retire with full honors after a lifetime of inflicting abuse, sexual and otherwise, upon his subordinates. A disproportionate punishment for King will only serve to validate the arguments that white supremacists propound.
From King's Wikipedia page:
"King attended Northwest Missouri State University from 1967 to 1970, and was a member of the Alpha Kappa Lambda fraternity, majoring in math and biology, but did not graduate. While in college, King received "2S" deferments in 1967, 1968, and 1969."
And what, pray tell, does that have anything to do with anything? You don't like science majors? Frat boys are all racist? People who get deferments like Clinton and half of your Canadian fleeing former fellow workers are okay, but Republicans with deferments are evil?
This is something YOU added to the conversation. What exactly are you trying to say?
To be clear,
- You are beyond debate. This mode is dead.
- You are beyond civility.
- You are beyond "should be". You must deal with "is".
The reluctance to see what is in front of you may come from age, nostalgia, some elements of parochialism, and, I think, not a little fear. It is to use that over-used term, denial. To acknowledge what you see is to make it real.
King has been re-elected seven times. He has been consistently criticized as a racist since he began his tenure in Congress.
I don't believe that Mr. King is racist, but, even if he is, so what? While I believe racism is morally wrong, presumably there is a constituency that either agrees with or doesn't mind racism, anti-Semitism, etc. in their representatives. Otherwise, why would these racists (R's and D's) keep getting elected and re-elected? If a person can gain the support of a majority of voters in a 711,000-person congressional district, what exactly is the argument for silencing them in the House? Clearly they represent at least some Americans.
I keep coming back to Salamanca, 1936.
I need to get to that room where Unamuno argued with Millan Astray - its bound to have a mana in it, a spiritual echo maybe. One day.
Unamuno thought, or rather I think felt, that a war is a reasoned argument. He wanted to fight the monsters of the left, but had no experience in war. He was repulsed by the logical and cultural monstrosities he saw before him, in the side he backed.
But romanticism aside the only way to fight monsters is to become a monster.
The lesson for the GOP is to never ever screw up HOW you say something.
The democratics can be as corrupt as they want.
The creepy Democratics are listening and watching every word you say.
I don't listen to Rush much anymore. He has the same problem. He isn't a racist in any way, but he is often sloppy when it comes to the use of pro-nouns, gaps, and sentence structure. I will catch him saying the complete opposite of what he means because he is simply trying too hard to twist it all or to sound intelligent.
It's the idea that people who agree with what you are saying, they understand the nuance get it, but the leftwing - they are listening with a different ear. They are LOOKING for you to slip up, and if you do not string it all together with care and precision and use all the proper clarifications - you ARE A RACIST! Even if you are not a racist.
I'm not actually defending King for what he said. I'm unclear why he felt he needed to say it. He might be a racist for what he did say. But I doubt it.
I am giving King the benefit of the doubt because my guess is the combination of his sloppy string of words and gaps, combined with what was reported/heard by the pounce-left, created the controversy. I will condemn him for his lack of clarity in an age where everyone is listening and ready to use it against you. and only you. The left can get away with their anti-antisemitism and creepy hate all day long.
GOP - stop wandering into the landmines.
I’m still trying to find the accepted words that someone can use to support the white race. National Association of White People? What?
@Althouse, I had 2S deferments all four years of my undergraduate studies, fall 1964 through the spring of 1968, and my degree was in mathematics. Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with me,too? A 2S was routinely granted in those years for us toxic males who were actively pursuing a degree, something you should have known, given your age.
Or do I get a pass because I never pledged a fraternity?
There will always be landmines. There will always be material.
Everything is throw-weight for the propaganda system.
Even silence will do in a pinch.
It goes without saying that one should not speak in an indisciplined way, or at all, to the agents of the other system. But none of this matters very much.
The strategic failure of the right is its inability to create an organized and properly funded propaganda system of its own, with reliable mass media channels to the public. Its as if one side is actively fighting a war and the other still mostly doesn't understand that it is at war at all. Bannon et al understand this, but not a lot of others.
Rush did what few others have. He created his own platform, and helped many more exploit that. Its still one of the few platforms the US Right still has. Limbaugh like Bannon is a strategic thinker.
Everyone quibbles about messaging tactics, nobody seems to care about strategy.
The Left needs to understand that the only way the Right can fight the Left's idiot racism is to indulge in some idiot racism of its own.
Weren't you told to leave, Chuck?
Buwaya observes: The strategic failure of the right is its inability to create an organized and properly funded propaganda system of its own, with reliable mass media channels to the public. Its as if one side is actively fighting a war and the other still mostly doesn't understand that it is at war at all. Bannon et al understand this, but not a lot of others.
True. But the left is actually doing more to discredit itself than to win the propaganda war.
Should every racist be tarred and feathered? The feathers likely come from an animal that was killed, so feathers are out.
Ted Cruz is not happy.
I'm a fan of Western Civilization. The other two phrases are so stupidly interpretable as to be meaningless.
We don't take kindly to racists like LLR "Department of Black People" Chuck around these here parts.
Git out!
Trump should articulate his view of an “inclusive nationalism” for all Americans.
Let me preface all this, that I haven't read the NYT article that quotes Rep. King, and I don't know the complete extent of his remarks.
Trump should not say anything. It doesn't put people at ease. It merely puts him and Republicans on the defensive. I suspect the left knows this and is hoping for more Republican activity on this issue so it can stay in the news cycle longer. The congressional republicans totally misplayed this situation. The chose the worst possible course of action. If they truly believe that Rep. King is a White nationalist, and is advocating for White Supremacy, then they shouldn't have removed his committee appointments, they should have acted to expel him from the House.
If they don't think he holds those views or meant his remarks that way, then they shouldn't have gone after him at all.
The congressional Republicans chose the absolute worst by trying to be in the middle and censured him publicly and removed him from positions. But now he is still there and it looks like the Republicans think he is racist but aren't willing to go the full ten yards and kick him out. Not smart!
I heard Republican leadership just happened to be at the Closs house the night Patterson showed up.
They shrieked, "We'll gladly help you get this troublesome girl into you car, Mr. Patterson sir! Just please don't hurt us!"
Trump should say something.
And what he needs to say is that he is DAMNED sick and tired of deep scrutiny of the more offbeat Republican members of Congress, while giving passes to extremist anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, not to mention the raw misandry of any of a number of Democrat senators and Congresswomen.
Then he needs to pull Tom Scott and Mitch McConnell into the Oval Office for a private meeting where he rips Scott a new one up one side of the office and down the other. Scott is the person who blew up the King interview into a cause celebre. It’s called party discipline, and Scott needs to learn about it.
Congress has this cute procedural
When it is the Member's turn, the Chair will say, "For what purpose does the gentleman/gentlelady from (State) seek recognition?" The Member should first address the chair directly and say, "I seek unanimous consent to address the House for one minute, and to revise and extend my remarks." At this point, the Chair will say, "Without objection," and the Member may approach the microphone and begin their One-Minute speech.
Will Rep. King be allowed to speak anymore?
Weren't you told to leave, Chuck?
I don't mind Chuck but the people who respond to him are nuts, rhetoricwise. That's what makes the clutter.
Sometime he may make a point that is an opportunity for a nice response but that's rare. There's no need to point out self-refuting points. Make him try for good points.
If Trump were to say something, what would he say:
(1) I condemn Steve King.
(2) The Failing NYT is unfairly picking on Steve King.
(3) I have hired Steve King to build my border wall.
Why do Democrats only encourage nonwhites to immigrate to countries where whites are supreme?
I don't mind Chuck but the people who respond to him are nuts, rhetoricwise. That's what makes the clutter.
The cure is a thousand times worse than the disease.
Some people may think I exaggerate about propaganda systems and the state of war.
The intensity, coordination, unity, and sheer ubiquity of the current political and cultural propaganda campaign in the US MSM is unprecedented since WW2. The Cold War did not see such extremes. Not only that, there is now even denial of financial and common carrier services to most alternate platforms. It is, in the media sphere, turning into a state of total war.
Consider this, and I think most readers here are old enough to recall those days. In the 70's and 80's the NYT would often run Soviet propaganda, disinformation, often written by its own staff. See Arnaud de Borchgrave on the subject. But the next day the Macy's ads would still run in the NYT. That was when the Soviets were actively threatening the US with nuclear weapons.
Something about the current political moment has motivated more money and more social attention on the current struggle than did the threat of nuclear annihilation forty years ago.
1. Steve King sez: "White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”
2. Ted Cruz comments: "What Steve King said was stupid. It was stupid, it was hurtful, it was wrong. And he needs to stop it.” Cruz added, “I think we all of us ought to be united, regardless of party, and say that white supremacism, white nationalism, is hatred, it is bigotry, it is evil, it is wrong. And I think we need that clarity.”
No, I am not a fan of "White Nationalism" and "White Supremecism," because it conjures up associations with two group I detest -- Nazis and the KKK. Also, if interpreted strictly, it omits outstanding minorities (Thomas Sowell, Booker T Washington, Clarence Thomas, etc, etc) from the mix of folks who have helped make America a worthwhile nation.
But King also used the phrase, "Western Civilization," which I think is a fair, neutral, inclusive designation that captures what many folks in America and parts of Europe honestly believe - that the Western European culture, derived from the Greeks and Romans and Brits has given large segments of the world prosperity and peace, within a Judeo-Christian and capitalist framework.
So, Yes, I would defend "Western Civilization" from, say, Muslim Civilization or Eastern Civilization or even Aztec Civilization. There are parts that have worked fine, there are parts that have been crummy (see Germany, 1939; see Mississippi, 1963). I think it's an important, big picture debate worth having.
I don't know Steve King, and what he actually thinks about it. It may be he is actually a white nationalist and believes in that jive (not good), or he bumbled, stumbled and mangled his words in a feeble attempt to defend Western Civilization.
Whatever the case, Republicans gotta be much more savvy and less gullible in interviews, jeez.
Then he needs to pull Tom Scott and Mitch McConnell into the Oval Office for a private meeting where he rips Scott a new one up one side of the office and down the other. Scott is the person who blew up the King interview into a cause celebre. It’s called party discipline, and Scott needs to learn about it.
I wouldn't go too hard on Scott, but he did mishandle it. Scott should have contacted King, personally and privately to get an explanation. If Scott found the explanation wanting, or lacking then maybe he could write his article. Because if King truly is a White Supremacist, he should have NO place in the party. I suspect King is not a white supremacist and was talking more about how Western Civilization has gotten lumped into the 'bad' category with things like White Nationalism, Fascism.
Buway is right to warn us, even though his rhetoric is often uncomfortable to those of us who still believe America is the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. In fact, our basic values and freedoms are being eroded right under our noses and we have done little about it. It is amusing--in a disgusting way--that the 'Resistance' purports to be antifascist and anti-Trump when in fact it is anti-American. We who love our country should be the true Resistance--resisting the media-driven totalitarianism that has besieged our precious nation.
@Vault Dweller, you and I are in full accord, except that from where I sit Scott needs to get chewed on precisely because he self-evidently did not contact King for clarification. One can only dine out so long on the novelty of being a Black Republican Senator; sooner or later you have to work for a living.
"White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”
1. The first time I read this, I took it to mean 'How did acknowledging the greatness of Western civilization get lumped in with white nationalist and white supremacist?' Think. Why the hell would he praise white supremacy to the New York freakin Times. His followup comments call white nationalism "evil."
2. The quote was from an hour-long interview with the NY Times reporter. The paper should release more of the discussion leading up to it, and what came after. Context.
3. I have no patience for Republicans who only - only - call out racists among fellow Republicans. Members of the party of Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan and identity politics seem to escape their righteous glare.
4. The Left has moved out of the mainstream on race. Most Americans, of all colors, sincerely believe in pursuing a color-blind society. The Left say that's unrealistic. Most Americans believe "our differences are only skin deep." The Left says our racial differences define us. Most Americans consider "America is a melting pot" to be the most unifying ideal of the last century. The Left is banning the phrase from colleges and K-12 schools (including my children's school), arguing the phrase is a "micro-aggression."
It's time for a new generation of Republicans get a spine.
"White Supremacy, For the Right", was the official motto of the Alabama Democratic Party until the 60s. Maybe Democrats don't want anyone else to use those words.
Reiterating an account I have posted before, I had a black female university professor who, when the topic of ethnicity was being discussed, responded to a white student advocating 'color-blindess' with a scathing repudiation and a lecture on the importance of her own African heritage and that ethnic groups should promote their heritages rather than be absorbed into a melting pot. This was well before the term 'microagression' was coined but she was certainly one who would have used the term to condemn color-blindness.
@ Bay Area Guy, 11:09
You're right. Why talk to the NYT? They aren't operating in good faith. Foolish and perhaps arrogant.
But re: King's specific comments, I think he was trying to do a "which one of these things is not like the other?" kind of argument. He was trying to say, "Why do we let people get away with equating Western Civilization to White Supremacy and White Nationalism?" He did it badly. The media jumped on it. They just wanted to take his head and hang it on their wall.
We are not equal in anyway that can be measured. No two people are equal mentally or physically. No two men are equally tall and good looking and most aren't. And sorry but no woman alive has the sex appeal of Marilyn Monroe. Maybe a handful of us can write like Shakespeare, but not exactly like Shakespeare. That 'all Men are created equal' phrase seems to mean something different for liberals than what Jefferson intended. We are equal in rights but he understood we are not equal in abilities. From fetus to terminally ill we are equal in rights and deserve equal respect. From fetus to terminally ill we are of infinitely more value than the other creatures on this planet. I have never heard of rep. King before but he gets it and liberals don't.
Bob Boyd @ 11:39
That is what I think.
He did it badly.
On the matter of denial -
I am perhaps straining for analogies as to the extremes to which US politics and culture have changed.
How about this - zombie and vampire movies. In zombie movies there is always a bit where a survivor harbors or indulges some zombified person, a child or other family member, unable to process the fundamental change in circumstances. Now I can’t say all such movies have such scenes, not being my favorite genre, but it’s so in enough of them.
You are living in a zombie movie.
"Trump should say something" - cultural marxism
Buwaya said "The strategic failure of the right is its inability to create an organized and properly funded propaganda system of its own, with reliable mass media channels to the public."
The tactical failure was to allow yourself to be interviewed on a contentious/dangerous subject without recording the conversation.
I had a black female university professor who, when the topic of ethnicity was being discussed, responded to a white student advocating 'color-blindess' with a scathing repudiation and a lecture on the importance of her own African heritage and that ethnic groups should promote their heritages rather than be absorbed into a melting pot.
I don't think people appreciate that lists banning "America is a melting pot" and "When I see you I don't see race" means there is an
actual list used in actual schools
Steve Bannon touts the phrase "Economic Nationalism" to deflect any of the left-wing, race baiting criticism. He wants working class blacks and hispanics and whites to support the Trump economic agenda and oppose the globalist open borders agenda (which with hordes of illegal immigrants depresses wages and income of said working class).
I don't know that much about Benin, Dahomey, and Buganda. Were they where the ideals of racial tolerance and women's rights got their start?.........The concept of shunning someone for proclaiming the supremacy of western values is itself a western value........I recently read a book about Genghis Khan and the Mongols. Genghis Khan was apparently tolerant of different religions in his lands. The author claims that this showed how enlightened Genghis Khan was compared to European colonizers. How fucked up do you have to be to approve of Genghis Khan in comparison to those European colonialists?
"The tactical failure..."
You will always have tactical failures. Both sides are making tactical errors all the time.
They are not important, in contrast to strategic failures.
Indeed, a side with a strategic advantage has much more scope to exploit its enemies' tactical failures than vice versa.
You know that you are losing strategically when your tactical errors matter, with important consequences, while the other side can shrug off their own.
Of course Trump should say something, Ann. After all, when any republican anywhere (or even an alleged republican or alleged non-democrat) says something racist or bigoted or perceived by democrats or the media (but I repeat myself) as racist or bigoted or otherwise unacceptable to democrats or the media, then every republican everywhere must comment and denounce the offending statements or be deemed to have made them himself.
Color is a low information attribute that has progressed as a popular means for purposes of discrimination and an unprincipled justification to deny individual rights. Diversity or color judgment is a persistent plague on civilization.
American nationalism is not diverse or bigoted. Despite judicial rulings to the contrary (e.g. Twilight Amendment), The Constitution does not indulge in judgment/discrimination by color, sex, gender, age, or even girth.
"when any republican anywhere ...."
The reason this is so is as I said above -
You know that you are losing strategically when your tactical errors matter, with important consequences, while the other side can shrug off their own.
sudden hot button outrage that dies out over the course of a few years
They will summarily abort their exploitation of this leverage, when it is no longer politically viable and congruent. In the meantime, democracy will die in a volley of press bullhorns and partisan collusion, or will at least be reoriented through diverse public and private outlets, from prepubescent ages and forward.
Buwaya: "Both sides are making tactical errors all the time. They are not important, in contrast to strategic failures."
Training in tactics is essential. Isolated tactical failures are inevitable, but fighting with obsolete tactics means that you will fail far more often. I agree that there is a strategic problem in the current propaganda war, but this is not 2008, so no congressman should be surprised by how this is playing out tactically.
If I had written, "Trump should say something," I'd expect the Althouse comments page to blow up with personal attacks on me. - Chuck
That's because Ann isn't an asshole who's been asked to leave several times.
Pelosi should be held accountable for the remarks of Congresswoman Tlaib. After all, if Dems do not individually repudiate her remarks we have to assume they hold the same views. Right? Isn't that how it works? How did we ever let ourselves fall into this vicious trap?
"How did we ever let ourselves fall into this vicious trap?"
Since the MSM operates the trap. Its not owned and run by "ourselves" - yourselves - but by "them".
That's your strategic problem - because your enemies own the MSM, they get to make use of your errors while their errors don't matter.
A strategic approach would be to attack mass media ownership. Indeed, it would help a lot just to untangle MSM ownership to figure out who is calling the shots.
Buways suggests: A strategic approach would be to attack mass media ownership. Indeed, it would help a lot just to untangle MSM ownership to figure out who is calling the shots.
Sounds reasonable but, as we are at a tactical disadvantage, how do we pull it off? You are correct about MSM ownership. Most people are surprised to learn of the extent of these megamedia. The fact that Disney has bought FOX is another reason be discouraged.
I long for the day when the words "statist" and "socialist" are considered as dirty as "white supremacist."
"Sounds reasonable but, as we are at a tactical disadvantage, how do we pull it off?"
You are at a strategic disadvantage, not just tactical. Pulling it off will require effective executive power.
But Trump has found that the executive is highly constrained, as the actual FedGov structure is so inextricably tangled in the institutions and interests of the leadership caste. He is less of a leader than an irritant in the midst of enemy institutions.
I don't know how this all will fall out. I have never been optimistic.
Nationalism v. globalism
That's a fair dispute and should be/is on the table.
But, the Left will cry "Nationalism" sounds like Naziism! So, ya gotta be careful.
"White" Nationalism is bad for the reasons expressed above. Too much connected with the toxic past of KKK, and ignores all the non-Whites who tend to support Nationalism. So, bad substance and bad marketing.
"Economic Nationalism" is the best term to describe what Trump is doing. And it's not racist, includes all races in the working and middle classes, and basically focuses the challenge against globalism.
King's statement:
"One of my quotes in a New York Times story has been completely mischaracterized. Here’s the context I believe accurately reflects my statement.
In a 56 minute interview, we discussed the changing use of language in political discourse. We discussed the worn out label “racist” and my observation that other slanderous labels have been increasingly assigned to Conservatives by the Left, who injected into our current political dialog such terms as Nazi, Fascist, “ White Nationalist, White Supremacist,— Western Civilization, how did THAT language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”…just to watch Western Civilization become a derogatory term in political discourse today. Clearly, I was only referencing Western Civilization classes. No one ever sat in a class listening to the merits of white nationalism and white supremacy.
When I used the word “THAT” it was in reference ONLY to Western Civilization and NOT to any previously stated evil ideology ALL of which I have denounced.
My record as a vocal advocate for Western Civilization is nearly as full as my record in defense of Freedom of Speech."
BAG Says "Economic Nationalism" is the best term to describe what Trump is doing.
I don't think so, actually. I think "American Nationalism" is the best term. The problem is that many people decide that "white" is a good term for the dominant American culture. It is a bad term. "Economic" is only the least of the issues. If you want to be a Nationalist, be an American Nationalist. "America First" might be a good slogan.
You are at a strategic disadvantage, not just tactical.
Of course, buwaya, but what can the best of strategies accomplish when the enemy has absolute control of communications and materiel?
" when the enemy has absolute control of communications and materiel?"
That is the strategic disadvantage. And not just that.
There are ways around it, such the strategy of the underdog, that is, to disrupt enemy communications and finance. Organize massive boycotts say, targeting businesses or networks.
Death to Amazon say, buy from AliExpress (yes they are Chinese government-linked, but war creates strange bedfellows). Or social media makes kids gay.
Or a guerrilla approach to build alternate communications and finance.
But this requires a fundamentally strategic approach, not obsession with today's outrage.
Gerald van derleun rightfully encapsulated this possum Congress mindset 'they thirst for death's
They've gone after Rep. King because they HATE his immigration stances. It has nothing to do with "Racism"
LOL!
The big donors are behind it, just like they were with Sabotaging Roy Moore.
Mitch McConnell doesn't do anything unless he's paid to.
It looks like the ADL has gone after him to.
Its impossible to determine precisely what he said that was so bad. The news stories constantly paraphrase and give no context.
Just like they always do with Trump. They tried to destroy Trump - but he was too strong. Whether King will survive is up in the air.
Of course, Conservative Inc. went after Rep. King too. Wonder who's paying them off.
Trump is imperfect - to say the least.
But he's almost single handily kept the Republican party afloat.
Had Hillary won, we not only would have a Kagan Supreme Court and every appeals court looking like the 9th Circuit, we would have had people like Kristol, Ryan, Flake, and Sasse posing as Great Conservatives.
Omidyar the fellow behind the bulwinkle, paul singer, mitts benefactor, a few others.
Yes they could stomach his meeting with an Austrian deporable party
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