Wrote stonethrower (calling me by my first name and spelling it wrong), in the comments to my post on Game 3 of the National League Championship Series, in which I said, about Manny Machado, "Look how dirty he played twice when sliding into second."
After Game 4, last night, I now have Christian Yelich to back me up: "Machado called ‘dirty player’ by Yelich after benches clear" (WaPo):
“He’s a player that has a history of those types of incidents,” Milwaukee slugger Christian Yelich said. “One time is an accident. Repeated over and over and over again, you’re just a dirty player. It’s a dirty play by a dirty player, and that’s what it is. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can’t respect someone who plays the game like that.”...
Just a few weeks before the 26-year-old Machado likely hits the open market as one of the most desirable free agents in baseball, the big-hitting shortstop has become the latest star to tread the well-worn line between fierce competitors and dirty players.....
Manny Machado kicked Jesús Aguilar. Many #takes will follow. pic.twitter.com/uMopidt8IJ— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) October 17, 2018
"It's a dirty play by a dirty player. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can't respect someone who plays the game like that."— Stephen Watson (@WISN_Watson) October 17, 2018
Christian Yelich on Manny Machado pic.twitter.com/TocySpu8fK
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Unclean baseball. Who knew.
On one of my baseball threads, a friend posted this:
Manny Machado Throws Bat at A's Pitcher
He also doesn't hustle.
I believe Yelich. He has recent, corroborating evidence and a long history with this guy. That Dodger player should be impeached.
The player is dirty. The play was/was not dirty...
Yelich is certanly solid in his convictions. He respects the player but not the person? Huh?
You can't be civil to someone who is trying to defeat you, especially if they're succeeding.
If a Milwauke pitcher decides to retaliate by throwing at Machado, is that dirty?
That Dodger player should be impeached.
Would it then take a 2/3 vote of the living Hall of Fame players to ban him from baseball?
Dean Smith said he admired John Wooden’s accomplishments.
"I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can’t respect someone who plays the game like that.”
Pick a lane Yelich.
And the play at first was dirty but those slides at second...nah.
Winning ball games makes this stuff go away.
I said I was sorry about misspelling your name. I'm such a dope.
There's no crying in baseball.
Machado is just Corey Seager’s fill in this year.
Machado is a great player but diminishes himself with this stuff.
He also didn’t hustle on a ground out the other day against Milwaukee.
I’m not sure how much he’s costing himself, if anything, by the dirty play and the lack of hustle in a playoff game, but he’s pissing off his teammates and manager.
Corey will be back at shortstop next season and the Dodgers won’t miss a beat.
I said I was sorry about misspelling your name. I'm such a dope.
Probably don’t want to dig in your next at bat, Ann...
Yelich is acknowledging that Machado is a great player. He hits well, fields well, throws well, and runs the bases well. He’s also saying he plays dirty at times. This isn’t inconsistent. Machado is a jagoff.
Yelich is also a great player. So are Trout and Betss and some others. They don’t pull this shit that Machado does. He’s getting a very bad reputation among the players.
It was anne error.
rhhardin wins the thread.
There's a reason why first basemen usually don't leave their ankle hanging out over first base.
hillbillies rule!
You will know of Machado is a dirty player if he gets hit and his teammates do not leave the dugout.
That is the ultimate test.
Here's hoping Cubs drop $400 million or so on that dirty player in the free agent sweepstakes.
Maybe Bryce Harper, too.
More civility bullshit from Ann Althouse.
Dirty. I’d throw at him next time up. Not chin music, ankle music.
I have no rooting interest. I don't even watch NL baseball. Machado was a notorious dirty player when he was at Baltimore, so he has a history.
First of all, I see a lot of baseball talking heads defending Machado this morning. Same ones that go off on players that stare at a pitcher too long, or don't toss their bat properly after a home run.
Secondly, the 1st baseman is usually the team's power hitter, clean up hitter. If you can take him out it's a huge advantage, especially in a play off series.
Dirty play. Dirty player.
That was a dirty play. No question. Ann, you are still a "homer" which is okay!
After making a conscious decision to stop watching the NFL because of the flag stuff, my husband and I decided to watch more baseball. We got the MLB app on our TV, and watched probably 50-60 Cubs games this year. We were sad when the Cubs got knocked out, but we've transferred our Midwestern allegiance to the Brewers and they've been so fun to root for! The Dodgers are awful so I really hope the Brewers bounce back from this and go on the Big Dance!
And Ann, I'm glad to see your "cruel neutrality" does not extend to baseball!
daskol said...
If a Milwauke pitcher decides to retaliate by throwing at Machado, is that dirty?
No. That's called following the rules.
That's pretty damn chippy.
It's a good way to get drilled with a fastball in the ribs. Except now that the Brewers have publicly denounced it, a retaliation may not go well for them.
Eric said...
There's a reason why first basemen usually don't leave their ankle hanging out over first base.
That's the first thing I thought too - that's something I thought every decent little leaguer has drilled out of him before he's in his teens. Machado may be dirty, but if he really wanted to hurt Agular he wouldn't have kicked him, he would have stepped on him.
That is definitely a dirty play and attempt to injure. Should have been ejected in the spot.
Nobody’s gonna throw at him in this series, but if he sees the Brewers next year, he’s gonna see a pitch behind his head.
Perhaps he thought nobody was watching.
I'll agree with several of the commenters above: every Little Leaguer knows you don't put your foot on the base like that.
Someone should ask Ryan Braun whether Machado is still invited to his Malibu house in the off season.
I'll agree with several of the commenters above: every Little Leaguer knows you don't put your foot on the base like that.
It doesn't give you the right to intentionally kick the 1st baseman in the ankle. It's not like he was trying to beat out the throw. He was out by a mile before he reached the bag.
I'm sure Counsel is happy they did not acquire Machado when they tried this summer. I know I am, and I've seen others say it too. He does NOT fit in with this group of guys who are more about "theres no I in team"
Counsel and the players gave repeatedly discussed on camera the culture they have cultivated from the front office to the guys that clean the ballpark.
Manny no has place here.
Did you see Aguilar essentially try to smooth things over when Machado got on base in the 13th by wrapping his arm around him?
But yeah he's dirty, and will still get a Yuge payday when the seasons over. Toxic.
"tread the well-worn line between fierce competitors and dirty players"
Surprised Ann didn't call out this particularly clunky sports-writing. If the line is well-worn, why hasn't it disappeared, like the erased lines around the batter's box?
And, more to the point, why didn't Aguilar step off the base immediately with a player charging down the line, like every other first baseman does? It seems like he intended to take the hit, maybe as a ploy to get Machado ejected.
Manny Machado, bringing MS-13 style baseball and values to the LA barrios.
Hey, AYN, defensive much?
He doesn’t have the motivation to actually run out at a ground ball, but when he finally makes it to first base he has enough energy for that final kick.
BTW, I think that Christian Yelich supports my argument, not that of Ann Althouse. Unless he called out the plays of the previous as dirty as well.
It seems like he intended to take the hit, maybe as a ploy to get Machado ejected.
Yeah, why did he leave his foot exactly in place making it so easy for Machado to aim at?
Looked intentional
"Repeated over and over and over again, you’re just a dirty player. It’s a dirty play by a dirty player, and that’s what it is."
It's a dirty story of a dirty man,
And his clinging wife doesn't understand.
His son is working for the Daily Mail
It's a steady job,
But he wants to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.
Henry, because he has poor mechanics and is lazy himself. It never occurred to him that Machadonwoikd donaomethong that cheap.
It seems like he intended to take the hit, maybe as a ploy to get Machado ejected.
Yeah, I'm sure he was willing to risk a broken ankle for that.
Machado was obviously annoyed at making the out and took it out on Aguilar. He was out by enough to veer off to the right before crossing the base.
But the fact that this was a dirty play doesn't make the slides from the previous game dirty. Those were typical, and the one he got called for interference on was really a technical violation, not something that would have injured anyone.
There may be some booo's for Manny at Miller Park on friday. More than even Puig gets I'll bet.
Baseball has folkways for dealing with Machado. As pointed out above, the first pitch to him should have been behind his head.
That they didn't do that could mean they know Aguliar intentionally left his foot on the bag to be kicked at, or the team isn't competitive enough to Go There.
He's a dirty player, but he'll keep playing dirty because they let him.
"I'll agree with several of the commenters above: every Little Leaguer knows you don't put your foot on the base like that."
You also don't run that far inside the line at that point.
You might want to check the meaning of that funny little line in foul territory near first base.
We stayed up and watched the entire game. Our dogs had no mercy and woke us at 6 as usual. Mad at myself for staying up, mad that those A-hole Dodgers won. I hope Machado gets hit in the face and breaks his nose. Yes I am a sore loser.
I am a die-hard Dodger fan since 1972. I hope the Dodgers do not look to sign him as a free-agent. I'll give them a pass on a rent-a-player, but I would rather they not tarnish their brand with a player like Machado going forward. More Muncy less Machado.
"Browndog said...
I'll agree with several of the commenters above: every Little Leaguer knows you don't put your foot on the base like that.
It doesn't give you the right to intentionally kick the 1st baseman in the ankle. It's not like he was trying to beat out the throw. He was out by a mile before he reached the bag."
Which allowed Aguliar plenty of time to remove his foot from the base, too.
I played first base. On a ground ball, if there's not going to be an attempt to round the bag, the inside of the bag is mine. The outside of half of the bag belongs to the runner, unless I have to back up to field the throw.
But I didn't need half the bag. Only the barest sliver of it closes to the throw, and I'd stretch out as far as I could for it and still keep my foot firmly planted on the bag. And I came off it as soon as I got the out.
DODGERS WIN! :-)
A friend of mine who is a White Sox fan says Machado was known for pulling crap like this when he was in the AL. He's an asshole.
BP said
"or the team isn't competitive enough to Go There"
Call it what you want, but that would not represent what Counsel is attempting to accomplish or how he played the game and how he wants his players to play.
He's "Wisconsin nice" for good or bad.
Manny will get his due in time. When he arrives at a team that fails to compete at this level he will become even more toxic.
"when they go low... we kick them" --"Horseface" Machado
The more I watch the play, the more I think there was intent. Machado took a different path to first, veering a bit further towards the inside part of the bag as he got closer. The move he pulled reminded me of a slew foot in hockey, where a player kicks someone's skate hoping to make him lose his footing and fall on his ass.
Manny Machado - Liberty Valance
Christian Yelich - Ranse Stoddard
Who shall play the role of Tom Doniphon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwcYIcn5ZEs
The sense of rule breaking of some people is expressed perfectly by Martin Mull's character Russel, the pharmacist in Two and a Half Men. When questioned on his behavior, his response is, "What are you, a cop?".
Best of Russel
If I was Machado, I'd kick Aguliar too for trying to trip me.
Red Sox fan here. That was a dirty play and he should be suspended for a game.
Machado is a dirty player. He is also a very good player so it would seem unnecessary.
Chippy, not dirty. Machado's got nothing on Ty Cobb
Jason observes: DODGERS WIN! :-)
Yeah, in fourteen innings. At home.
Dodgers not playing like a championship team. Fortunately for them, neither are the Brewers.
oward said...
Chippy, not dirty. Machado's got nothing on Ty Cobb
10/17/18, 10:17 AM
Yeah.
Cobb never would have said "I'm not the type of player who is going to be 'Johnny Hustle.' That's not my cup of tea."
There's no crying in baseball.
ball washers like Manny get no respect. Nor should they.
"Cobb never would have said "I'm not the type of player who is going to be '[Charlie]Hustle.' That's not my cup of tea.""
Wanna bet?
Do you think Manny will try to even the score with Yelich if given the chance?
Will he take the high road and do it by his performance on the field with no extracurriculars? Or will he do it gansta style?
Wait for it.
Aguilar intentionally left his foot on the middle of the bag long after the out. It was a bush-league move to make Machado 'go around.' Fuck that. Glad Manny spiked him. It's the equivalent of two men walking towards each other on the street. Neither moves out of the other's way, shoulders hit, words ensue.
In other news, Joe Buck is a midwest-homer asshat. Hope the Dodgers win today and clean house in Milwaukee. Nothing personal; Brewers play good ball.
A runner is entitled to step on the base. Period. If Aguilar or any other first baseman is going to obstruct the base with his own foot hogging up the bag, rather than his foot being off the bag, but touching it, then he cannot complain if there is some collision of feet. The burden was on Aguilar to avoid anything that would trip up the runner.
Mark, if you carefully observe the slo-mo of the event, it is clear that Machado did more than tangle feet with Aguilar. He has shown time and again that he tries to trip or otherwise inflict injury on basemen. Case closed.
And now that I've seen replays of the two slides at second -- those were good too. He was in the baseline for both and the runner is entitled to reach the base. If the defense player is in the way, it is on him to get out of the way and not obstruct the runner's path.
And also, in case you had not heard it a thousand times -- THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL.
This ain't rocket science.
One part of the skill set of being a true star, is a proper measure of fair play. Machado has demonstrated otherwise several notable times. But restricting ourselves to this one occurrence, watch that video closely.
Machdo was out of the baseline to begin with - something often overlooked on routine plays, but the case nonetheless.
He purposely dragged his foot. That is in no way a sort of protective maneuver, It was done by design. His defense? Aguilar? There was more than enough room - Machado got one foot almost dead center of the base.
It was bush.
A runner may still make contact in the course of a permissible slide, but is specifically prohibited from using a "roll block" -- think Hal McRae in the 1977 American League Championship Series -- or intentionally initiating (or attempting to initiate) contact with the fielder by elevating and kicking his leg above the fielder's knee or** throwing his arm or his upper body.**
Sorry, that second slide was not "good"
And why it was called interference...
So suppose Machado purposely treated Aguilar's ankle like a soccer ball he's trying to kick 60 meters downfield. Maybe Aguilar will learn the lesson -- get your effing foot off the bag.
Agree with Mark. The First baseman keeping his foot on top of the bag is designed to force the runner to the foulside edge of the bag..where ankles get twisted.
Im guessing Aguilar did that to send a message to Machado.
Machado gave him a message right back.
Ty Cobb weeps at this kerfuffle, I watched last night's game briefly and thought that Yelich looked like Pajama Boy.
"And now that I've seen replays of the two slides at second -- those were good too."
Rule 6.01(J)
If the runner does not engage in a 'bona fide slide' and initiated contact with the fielder in order to break up a double play, he will be called out for interference.
"Ty Cobb weeps at this kerfuffle,"
Even in the baseball hell where Ty Cobb eternally resides, there is no crying (or weeping).
I still have a scar on my shin from some idiot doing that to me in a recreational league slow pitch game. I played slow and fast pitch until I was 52 (as a catcher in fast pitch my knees started to give out.) They changed the rules at second base and at home to prevent injuries. They didn't need to change rules at first because there were already rules to avoid this sort of thing. You're an idiot if you are defending this.
This was dirty, unnecessary and, since he has a history of this sort of stuff, MLB should consider a warning, fine, or suspension (or all of the above). Tell the umps if it happens again, Machado should be tossed from the game.
Yes, that was dirty play- it could easily have torn the first baseman's Achilles, or fractured his ankle. If I were the commissioner, I would have suspended him the rest of the series- there has to be consequences for such behavior, and in that case, there is no real defense that what Machado did is an accident.
Manny is a pussy.
How is it that a guy who played a century ago is supposed to be more relevant to this discussion than this year's likely NL MVP?
I am a die-hard Dodger fan since 1972. I hope the Dodgers do not look to sign him as a free-agent. I'll give them a pass on a rent-a-player, but I would rather they not tarnish their brand with a player like Machado going forward. More Muncy less Machado.
Exactly. 1974 here.
Rule 6.01(J) -- A rule that did not exist for the more than 100 years of the game. A time when the game was played by men.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out. It's a struggle for supremacy, a survival of the fittest."
"The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault."
-- Ty Cobb
The way you avoid injury is to do like they did for decades -- the SS and 2B are given some leeway in "tagging" the base so that they can get out of the way of the runner.
It was the elimination of the unwritten "neighborhood" rule that made the game more dangerous, necessitating the slide rule, which is contrary to the rules and spirit of the rules that the runner is entitled to the base paths.
Now, because of the newly-invented slide rule, we have more replays, more arbitrary "judgment" calls on what is "bona fide" and what is not. And more people whining, "he's dirty."
It does not make the game better. It only makes things worse.
"Rule 6.01(J) -- A rule that did not exist for the more than 100 years of the game. A time when the game was played by men."
Only 100 years? Why stop there? Shouldn't real red-blooded men be playing by pre- Knickerbocker Rules? You know -- let's go back to when a red-blooded man could put out a baserunner by throwing the ball at and hitting the runner directly in the head? Go Dodgers! Bring back the golden years!
He is a thug-wanna-be. Just look at his hair style. You see that in state prison.
And he really didn't do damage to the first baseman. It was a stupid, little kick. He's nothing but a punk. The umps were right on the slide-play reversal when they made it into a double play.
Go Dodgers!
Machado's a dbag. Mad skills, but glad he didn't end up in Milwaukee.
We could even go back to the days of the Reserve Clause -- when team owners were men and players were their slaves.
We could even go back to the days when a foul with two strikes was strike three. Wouldn't that speed up the game?
"Machado's got nothing on Ty Cobb"
https://www.mlb.com/news/ty-cobb-history-built-on-inaccuracies/c-178601094
My husband played cricket in school and insisted that American baseball is more like the girls' game of Rounders.
Would I love to see Miley drill Machado today? Y
Is he the guy likely to do it? Y
Step on their necks....go crew
As the 20th century dawned, the NL was in trouble. Conduct among players was poor, and fistfights were a common sight at games. In addition to fighting each other, they fought with the umpires ...
Ty Cobb was a fucking pussy who played in the "clean" AL.
Counsell on if Manny Machado has gone beyond the bounds of playing hard:
“I don’t think he’s playing all that hard,” Counsell said.
LOL
The issue here was not what is good form to avoid accidental injury; this was a deliberate dirty act, one that could have caused a serious injury.
That was intentional goading by Aguilar and it was because it was Machado coming down the line. No first baseman in the league will leave themselves vulnerable like that. Look at every other play at first base and he doesn't do that. Machado actually held back to avoid heavy contact. Some call Manny a dirty player, but I call him a crafty player. It's baseball. He's not trying to hurt anyone (even Dustin Pedroia says Machado wasn't trying to hurt him), he's trying to get into their heads. And it has totally worked in this series.
And it's interesting that those who are calling Machado dirty don't have any qualms about calling for him to get beaned.
Well even Fox talking heads are playing reruns of Mannys tantrums and telling him to "clean it up"
Mlb fined Machado today as well.
Good luck on getting max pay Manny.
My husband played cricket in school and insisted that American baseball is more like the girls' game of Rounders.
Really? Let me know when the next baseball player steps up to the plate wearing a full mask and goalie pads. :)
Miley out after one batter? I don't believe I've ever seen that in my life.
Miley out after one batter?
Yeah, that's sportsmanship for you.
But it also teaches the other side not to stupidly play the percentages too much. Learn your batters to hit both L and R pitchers.
"Miley out after one batter? I don't believe I've ever seen that in my life."
Brewers did it 3 weeks ago
ST. LOUIS Brewers starting pitcher Dan Jennings threw three pitches to one batter, Matt Carpenter.
Other teams have employed an "opener" all year.
It's amazing to me how tribal the comments are here.
Let me clear it up (I have no interest in the game at all). I have NEVER SEEN a first baseman keep his foot in the middle of the base on an easy out like that EVER. It's always boom, boom, boom. Catch, tag the base, lift the foot.
Makes me wonder at the bias. Seems to be a Wisconsin mode of thought. Lovely people.
“Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.”
Not having much experience or expertise here it's hard for me to know. Is there a distraught woman I could ask?
It's ambiguous. Did he add an e or omit an i?
“Repeated over and over”? It's a gif.
clearly asking for it leaving his foot there. whatever
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