1. The Atlantic:
"Serena Williams's U.S. Open Loss Was Humiliating—But Not For Her/What happened to the superstar was shocking. It was not surprising."
Taking a game away from Williams for using the word “thief” during such a high-stakes match is unlikely to do much to quash the notion that a double standard exists between men and women in today’s competitive tennis field. And the stakes of that double standard can feel even higher for women of color....
To see Williams’s comeback after a traumatic birth stymied over seemingly minor infractions seems unnecessary and malicious. To see the devastation that those penalties wrought on two women of color at the top of their sport, during what should have been a joyous time, is heartbreaking.
During a post-game interview Williams was undeterred: “I’m here to fight for women’s rights and women’s equality,” she said....
2. New York Post:
"It’s shameful what US Open did to Naomi Osaka."
Here was a young girl who pulled off one of the greatest upsets ever, who fought for every point she earned, ashamed. At the awards ceremony, Osaka covered her face with her black visor and cried. The crowd booed her. Katrina Adams, chairman and president of the USTA, opened the awards ceremony by denigrating the winner and lionizing Williams — whose ego, if anything, needs piercing....
ADDED: Another iteration of view #1. In The Cut (by Rebecca Traister):
"Serena Williams and the Game That Can’t Be Won (Yet) What rage costs a woman":
As Sally Jenkins put it about [Chair umpire Carlos] Ramos, writing in the Washington Post on Saturday night, “He couldn’t take it. He wasn’t going to let a woman talk to him that way. A man, sure. Ramos has put up with worse from a man.” Recalling that just last year, Rafael Nadal had told off Ramos without it costing him a match, Jenkins went on, “But he wasn’t going to take it from a woman pointing a finger at him and speaking in a tone of aggression.”
Women have so much to point fingers about, so many reasons to speak in aggressive tones....
This has been the ask of women, and most especially, of nonwhite women, since the beginning of time: Take the diminution and injustice and don’t get mad about it; if you get mad, you will get punished for it, and then you will be expected to fix it, to make sure everyone is comfortable again....
[I was reminded of] something Brittney Cooper, Rutgers professor of women’s and gender studies, wrote in her book Eloquent Rage, her stunning paean to black feminist anger. “Watching Serena play,” Cooper writes, “is like watching eloquent rage personified.....”
IN THE COMMENTS: Bob Boyd said:
What I want to know is, why did they put someone in the umpire's chair who is not a professor of women's and gender studies in the first place?
You'd think, at this level of tennis, they could afford qualified people.
Lucien said:
The point is that Ms Williams was never really out of control. She knew from the start that she and her coach exchanged signals in every match, and had been correctly called on it. Her outrage was fake. What she really wanted to do was create an atmosphere of such emotional chaos that her young and inexperienced opponent lost it.
Because otherwise she was getting stomped.
I can believe that. I watched the video. I felt that Williams was trying — very hard — to intimidate the umpire. She was actively bullying him. Hey! That reminds me of Trump. People say he's lost it and is raging when he's using a style of emotional manipulation.
পোস্টগুলি
৪৬৮টি মন্তব্য:
468 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Hey, it's women's tennis.
Serena, the U.S. Open, and the crowd ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Depends on who scored higher on the Intersectionality Olympics?
Did the Atlantic article also mention Serena's coach was caught giving her signals from the cheap seats?
"To see Williams’s comeback after a traumatic birth stymied over seemingly minor infractions seems unnecessary and malicious."
Osaka had already defeated Williams in March of this year.
Something tells me that Williams could sense that, as she was already losing this match as well, perhaps it was time to gin up a reason other than Osaka's superior play that could account for a loss.
We'll call it going the Full Crack Emcee or alternatively the Full LLR Chuck (who is also well known for conjuring up all kinds of excuses for why he gets things wrong time and again.
Serena Williams' race needs to be factored in, no matter what.
It's only a game, right?
It wasn't just for using the word "thief." She was going on and on and attempted to threaten the umpire's job.
She wasn't playing a mixed singles match; she and her opponent were playing by the same rules. Her opponent managed to follow them and she did not.
dw;dc
Serena's coach admits he was guilty of coaching her during the match. She did slam her racket on the court, and she did attack the umpire. She literally was guilty of everything she was punished for. But apparently, like many minorities, she feels like she doesn't have to follow the rules.
Serena was losing the match, knew it, and was seeking an excuse or a deflection from her loss.
Both Serena and her sister earned tens of millions of dollars, and much more in endorsements, playing a game. They were lionized by the tennis establishment, not attacked.
The only person who should be aggrieved today is Naomi Osaka. USTA should be groveling at her feet right now.
I believe steroids can make people bad tempered.
It’s a bitch getting old. And in this case, that is a literal statement.
The rules of the game are what they are. You cannot be coached by someone in the stands, and as I understand it her coach admitted later that, yes, he was advising her via hand signals. You cannot try to stop a match to settle yourself or get extra rest by deliberately breaking your racket. You cannot abuse the umpire. They learned from John McEnroe’s antics.
That The Atlantic wants To do wink-wink, nudge-nudge at rules for a black athlete while expecting them to be enforced against whites and Asians does not surprise me. They do that for black and female politicians, too.
JML wins the thread!
“I’m here to fight for women’s rights and women’s equality,”
Amazing!! I thought they were there to play tennis. Where was her pink pussy hat?
Since her opponent is also a woman, William's statement makes no sense.
Equality also means a level playing field where everyone plays by the same rules and doesn't cheat.
Even if a ref makes a bad call (not saying the call was wrong here), you suck it up, put it out of your mind, and do your best for the rest of the match. Not just in tennis but in all sports.
tcrosse: "It's only a game, right?"
Completely wrong.
It's a business with the difference between winning and losing single match costing a player/business&marketing entity millions. Potentially tens of millions.
I can tell you right now, there is zero change Osaka will ever be accepted at any of the Ivy League schools now.
Clearly a "white" Asian.
Everything is about race race race. Aren't we all sick of it?
You'd think the Haitian-American-Japanese Osaka would have even more POCemon diversity points than the just-plain-American Williams, but apparently you'd be wrong. Maybe the Japanese part of Osaka counts as honorary white.
wrought on two women of color at the top of their sport ... is heartbreaking
This makes white women feel good, even superior, as the emotional protectors of others. It's a lot easier than the work it would take to get good at tennis.
Serena needs to take a knee at the next match.
If I were all-powerful, Osaka would become a true headliner now in Women's Tennis. And she would never play the US Open again, and she would cite this shameful display, reminding everyone of how poorly she was treated, year after year after year. USTA should be groveling out an apology.
Why did Atlantic bring Race into this anyway? Have the authors never seen John McEnroe whining his way through a match?
If she's claiming women's rights, shouldn't we be able compare her level of testosterone to Osakas?
The meme "there is racism every where" has worn out.
Racism has become merely a cover for failure and a lack of personal responsibility.
"Everything is about race race race. Aren't we all sick of it?"
It's not "race race race"; it's "my tribe over everybody else". It is usually couched in other, higher-sounding (at least to some people) terms.
Something tells me that Williams could sense that, as she was already losing this match as well, perhaps it was time to gin up a reason other than Osaka's superior play that could account for a loss.
Colin Kaepernick II. Maybe Nike will make another commercial.
I am not a tennis fan and did not watch but I understand the crowd, most of whom paid $1000 a seat, was atrocious but then we have seen that before.
Adidas beat Nike!!!
Clearly a "white" Asian.
Didn't you even bother to look at a picture of Osaka? Osaka is biracial, her father is Haitian. It is you that a bringing up the racial issues. Williams was claiming sexism, not racism. (Although, neither makes sense, she is just a poor loser.)
Naomi is African-Japanese so I don’t think it was a racial decision. Serena was employing legend-privilege. I watched the game and she clearly lost her shit. Basically, she was all “Don’t you know who i am?” Plus, she was clearly overmatched by Naomi. And didn’t like it. Just another tempest in a teapot. The Post has the more honest take.
It was disgraceful actions by a fading superstar, who doesn’t want to gracefully into the night, and displayed an appealing sense of entitlement.
The only victim is Osaka, who was beating Serena like a rag doll.
This is playing big in Japan. And negative Japanese stereotypes of black people have been reinforced.
Add The Atlantic to the list of those who embarrassed themselves yesterday.
"women’s equality"
OK, let them play best of five. Better yet, let them compete agains the men. Same game, same equipment, same rules. May the best person win.
"I can tell you right now, there is zero change Osaka will ever be accepted at any of the Ivy League schools now."
Correct. She doesn't have the right "personality." Serena, by contrast, does: bitching about how white people applying universal rules are liars and thieves will get you into Harvard.
Serena could write a book to explain What Happened.
I would think the adverse financial implications will be Osaka's, not Williams's. It would be worth millions to her to be properly celebrated. Williams still has time to break the record, and now she's damaged her reputation, but it's a small financial dent for her.
Another disgraceful display of Democrats' sore loser butt hurt at yesterdays US Open. Virtual signaling!! TANTRUMS!! Threats!! And CHEATING!!! Like a repeat of the 2016 election.
displayed an appealing sense of entitlement.
I think (and hope) you meant appalling.
Yes, Vanity Fair makes this a story of, not tennis, but "women of color". A WAPO columnista defends Serena's "competitive rage" in the face of an umpire's male mysogeny. Thank god the ump was not White, or he would get the 'Racist!' treatment as well. In the meantime, Serena's unchampion-like behavior buries what should have been a moment of joy for the young female victor. Wiliams owes Osaka an apology as well as the umpire.
What did Williams In was her repeated verbal harassment of the official. Her coach admitted he was “coaching her from the stands” (a rarely enforced infraction that caused a warning to be issued against Williams). She turned it around and argued she didn’t “need” coaching and took great offense st the official. Maybe there’s substance to her charge that “this always happens” at US Open. I don’t know. I only watched the match (tale delayed) because I heard there were fireworks. Serena’s inability to keep her anger in check, reminiscent of the great McEnroe moments, is what cost her the points. Osaka’s 117-MPH serve us what won the set and match.
Osaka out played Williams, I watched the game, and I can understand her frustration and anger but not the crowd’s boos, they were the real infraction. Through it all Osaka showed what modesty and gratefullness looks like perhaps because of her Japanese background?
Instead, I'd recommend reading the ESPN account. While it does seem more favorable to Ms. Williams, it had a more complete recitation of the facts. In any event, I feel for Ms. Osaka and think the crowd behaved very poorly.
The rules of the game are what they are.
Where is the "civility bullshit" tag for this post. Because that is what these oh-so-delicate tennis penalty rules are.
How immature and weak we Americans have become. What a shame.
"It is you that a bringing up the racial issues."
Here are 2 quotes from the concluding paragraphs of the Atlantic article:
"The support for Williams on Saturday—and throughout her career—comes not just from appreciation for her rare talent, but in part because some fans have an enduring memory of how difficult it is for women of color to make it in expensive, mostly white sports."
"The events of the U.S. Open show both how difficult it can be for women of color to be accepted as they are, and just how thoroughly she has rejected the status quo."
And the stakes of that double standard can feel even higher for women of color....
POCs of Gender (POCOG) - be still, my bleeding heart!
POCs,
POCs who need POCOGs,
Are the luckiest POCs in the world
Only one of these articles brought politics into it.
Both were giving their readers what they want.
It's disparate outcome discrimination rules. The Asian is smarter, probably.
There is an unwritten rule to most sports -- let them play. You don't call every little niggling thing even if they are contrary to the petty rules, but instead let the players play and let them determine the contest on the field, ice, or court.
Sounds like Osaka would have defeated Williams without all the official's drama injected into it. They should have let her do that.
Here's a third view:
About that no-coaching rule in Grand Slam tennis
Some key facts:
a. [Chair umpire Carlos] Ramos (and television cameras) observed Serena's coach, Patrick Mouratoglou, making hand gestures that appeared to suggest Williams move forward, presumably to rush the net.
b. Such code violation warnings aren't rare or unusual.
c. Ramos was accusing Mouratoglou, not Williams
d. Mouratoglou ... admitted [he was coaching] on air to ESPN analyst Pam Shriver
So basically Carlos Ramos administered a warning -- which carried no penalty -- and Williams had a meltdown. She has no one to blame but herself.
Through it all Osaka showed what modesty and gratefullness looks like perhaps because of her Japanese background?
It couldn't possibly be her African background. What a racist statement. Does Althouse allow racists on here?
"Since her opponent is also a woman, William's statement makes no sense."
I'm guessing the idea is that men don't get penalized for behavior like Williams', therefore if she is penalized, it's sexist.
I don't think the premise is correct, so the conclusion is thus incorrect also.
Don't you know who I am!!!!!
Williams was also affected by Osaka’s emotions on the awards stand. She put her arm around Osaka and told her something that made her smile. And unlike the USTA lady, Serena put the focus back on Osaka and her amazing play. That moment partially redeemed the earlier selfish behavior of Williams.
So basically Carlos Ramos administered a warning -- which carried no penalty -- and Williams had a meltdown. She has no one to blame but herself.
OK, so Williams had no one to blame but herself. As for me, I blame the asinine rules. And the petty authoritarian officials.
some fans have an enduring memory of how difficult it is for women of color to make it in expensive, mostly white sports.
Althea Gibson. Althea Gibson (August 25, 1927 – September 28, 2003) was an American tennis player and professional golfer, and the first black athlete to cross the color line of international tennis. In 1956, she became the first person of color to win a Grand Slam title (the French Championships).
And, as I pointed out yesterday, Naomi Osaka is, herself, half black, her father [her early coach] being Haitian. She used her mother's name because they live in Japan. She looks, to me, to have nearly the same skin tone as that of Serena.
How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate? Anyone with even an ounce of wound judgment who watched the match would have been embarrassed at Serena's antics. Imagine had she been, say, an Eastern European behaving like that. The crowd would have booed her off the court.
@Mark -- The rules are asinine, which is what that ESPN article is really about.
Adidas beats Nike. Well of course All Day I Dream About Sex beats nike.
"Katrina Adams, chairman and president of the USTA, opened the awards ceremony by denigrating the winner and lionizing Williams — whose ego, if anything, needs piercing...."
Bullshit. That idea - in regards to people from my part of the country - is as old as the sisters themselves.
South Central produces champions.
On Saturday, September 8, 2018, Gillian B White, Senior Editor at The Atlantic, was having a bad day. Her problem was that she had been assigned to write about an outrageous display of racism and sexism perpetrated against a Woman of Color by -- and that was the problem. Who is the villain of this piece? Carlos Ramos, the umpire who penalized Serena Williams for breaking the rules? Hmmmm, Male, but not White enough. The underlying racism and sexism of the tennis establishment? Well, yes, that's better. Sounds White and Male to me! But the case does not make itself, and Gillian B White, who has surfed the wave of affirmative action since before she could walk, is having a hard time making it herself. Better just repeat "Woman of Color" every graph or two, and leave it at that. It's the Atlantic, after all. They publish that nathering idiot Ta Coates, they'll publish this garbage.
Rarely are we provided a fungible metaphor so perfectly crafted for its own time. I suspect that diva behavior is trending to unfashionable in the current zeitgeist. As always, I can be wrong. McEnroe is more remembered for his petulant frenzy, rather than his game. He was a peerless player at his best.
Something to consider.
mockturtle said...
"Althea Gibson,...How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate?"
You say that like whites were cool to Althea. White people tried to keep Althea Gibson out of tennis, so what are you saying?
Or did you just,...forget?
It was over 100 degrees out on that court. I'd be cranky too.
Maybe that also explains the crowd's boorish behavior.
I'm going to withhold judgement on this until Trump tweets.
Sound judgment, not 'wound' judgment. ;-)
New York Post:
Here was a young girl...
Young girl?
Girl?
Osaka is 20 years old. She is also been a professional for since 2014.
"Anyone with even an ounce of wound judgment who watched the match would have been embarrassed at Serena's antics."
No word from John Mcenroe yet.
This has been the ask of women, and most especially, of nonwhite women, since the beginning of time: Take the diminution and injustice and don’t get mad about it
Western women are living the most empowered, pampered and privileged lives of any humans who have ever existed. Yet they have been in a constant state of anger since the 1970's.
Crack, while I don't remember Althea Gibson, I know enough about her to know she had exponentially more class than does Serena. And if 'white people' tried to keep her out of tennis, how did she get in?
All sports are beginning to suck.
undeterred: “I’m here to fight for women’s rights and women’s equality,” she said....
Oh, spare us the drama. You're there for the paycheck and your ego.
No word from John Mcenroe yet.
McEnroe took plenty of punishment. It was Nastase and Connors who got away with it and ruined it for everyone else.
For an analysis that slams Ms. Williams, turn to the business press: I watch my fair share of tennis, and while I have no doubt that male tennis players might be more apt to curse at an umpire, I don't know how many of them are questioning the fairness, honesty, and integrity of the umpires. I've heard many male and female tennis players call an umpire's competency into question, but questioning their integrity is another matter altogether.
mockturtle said...
"Crack, while I don't remember Althea Gibson, I know enough about her to know she had exponentially more class than does Serena."
You can only say that because you see yourself as something other than a poor judge of the situation ("How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate?"). I can't say that about Serena, and, I'm pretty sure, Althea Gibson would agree with me and wouldn't either.
"And if 'white people' tried to keep her out of tennis, how did she get in?"
White people "tried" does not mean white people were successful. (Logic would've told you that - more evidence of your poor qualifications to judge.)
If SW were a professional golfer, she would be suspended from the PGA.
How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate?
Crack, I was, of course, referring to the Atlantic piece. But you are incapable of seeing anything except through the lens of racial injustice.
Serena's next tack will be to claim she is bravely battljng post-partum depression.
It’s clearly sexist against all those men who don’t need have penalties called against their opponents who break the rules. Why can’t men who follow the rules expect refs to protect them from cheaters, like women can? It’s so hard being a rule-following male.
This is McEnroe's record.
What is notable is how many times he was fined for bad behavior before he was every penalized in game.
Here is the story of how McEnroe was disqualified from the 1990 Australian Open.
At that time, the 3-step process was warning, point, default, not the current warning, point, game.
Hey, mockturtle
Do you notice how white people claim they aren't a group - until they get pissed - and then it's "How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate?"
Who's "we" who's having such a hard time tolerating - not being for - the fight for justice in America?
Sounds like it's white racists.
What I want to know is, why did they put someone in the umpire's chair who is not a professor of women's and gender studies in the first place?
You'd think, at this level of tennis, they could afford qualified people.
"How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate? "
Ask Crack. He is the racism expert.
mockturtle said...
"Crack, I was, of course, referring to the Atlantic piece. But you are incapable of seeing anything except through the lens of racial injustice."
Why would you think I would drop it - if the fight isn't over? Better question:
How can you drop it, if it isn't?
And who's in the best spot to determine it - you or me?
Again: Logic, my friend, leaves you lacking.
Serena married a white guy. The geeky co-founder of Reddit.
23-time Grand Slam champ is one shy of the record.
Williams has been a great player but yesterday was a low point for her, as a tennis player.
Osaka played incredibly well and deserved the title.
It was a game played by well-paid adults.
All else is politics intruding on sports.
That bodes poorly for the USTA.
Michael K said...
"How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate? "
Ask Crack. He is the racism expert.
That's a question for white racists, though: only they know their limits.
Who pays hundreds of dollars to go watch a tennis match and act like racist assholes in New York City booing the clearly superior champion?
Serena just endorsed Kaepernick and Nike committing brand seppuku as well.
Progressives only enjoy tearing institutions down and causing misery and hate.
The point is that Ms Williams was never really out of control. She knew from the start that she and her coach exchanged signals in every match, and had been correctly called on it. Her outrage was fake. What she really wanted to do was create an atmosphere of such emotional chaos that her young and inexperienced opponent lost it.
Because otherwise she was getting stomped.
Do you notice how white people claim they aren't a group - until they get pissed - and then it's "How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate?"
Most White people don't want to be part of a racial group, but the Left is gradually forcing us to. It will be a sad day if the Left ever succeeds.
Who's "we" who's having such a hard time tolerating - not being for - the fight for justice in America?
A) Americans
B) It's not a fight for justice...it's a demand for racial privilege.
Serena’s white husband’s previous girlfriend was black too. Me too, brother. Once black, no going back.
Lucien said...
"The point is that Ms Williams was never really out of control. She knew from the start that she and her coach exchanged signals in every match, and had been correctly called on it."
I heard this, too, which makes one wonder why no one here just went for that explanation and, instead, had to go down Racism Blvd. once again?
The answer is obvious.
That's a question for white racists, though: only they know their limits.
So if White people are tired of the cult of victimization and reject being called racists...they are racists. You idiots are playing a very dangerous game. There is only so much shit that people are willing to take.
The Crack Emcee said...
Michael K said...
"How much of this POC-PC rubbish can we tolerate? "
Ask Crack. He is the racism expert.
That's a question for white racists, though: only they know their limits.
White racists need black racists to help them keep racism alive.
Throw in a little Marxist theft and Redistribution and you now have the progressive team moving forward.
Can someone who actually cares about professional tennis tell me whether the rules were changed in response to John McEnroe’s unethical use of tantrums on the court to disrupt an opponent’s momentum and to give himself an unauthorized breather when he needed one? Because if the rules evolved in response to McEnroe then Crack is, as usual, cracked.
I heard this, too, which makes one wonder why no one here just went for that explanation and, instead, had to go down Racism Blvd. once again?
WtF? Go back and read the posts, that is exactly what I and others did. It was Serena and her supporters who injected racism.
Well, Serena has certainly earned her cameo in the Kaepernick Nike ad.
Ōsaka is a spokeswoman for ADIDAS.
Serena is 36, her opponent, also a "woman of color" is 20. Its an athletic contest, a particularly strenuous one. What's really going on here is Serena's fans not dealing well with their own aging.
Williams' coach admitted that he was coaching her with hand signals but adopted the "everybody does it" defense. In other words, the umpire was right. Does that matter?
With that partisan New York crowd there was definitely a ‘I’m so sick of losing!’ vibe. First our Hillary! and now our Serena!
I am not sick of their I’m sick of losing.
Gahrie said...
"So if White people are tired of the cult of victimization...."
Which, in their wisdom, they are able to determine - because we know how honest white people are about causing others pain, right?
"....and reject being called racists..."
Because there's NO HISTORY OF THAT, right?
"they are racists."
Acceptance is the best.
"You idiots are playing a very dangerous game."
Idiots usually are.
"There is only so much shit that people are willing to take."
But how much they've been willing to dish out has no limits. Unfortunately, that is THE problem whites refuse to look at. - as they continue to threaten everyone - as we see here.
Come lynch me, Gahrie, as a warning to the others.
Lucy White - Exactly. When you don't win, throw a tantrum. The D's do this in their sleep.
Achilles said...
"White racists need black PEOPLE to help them keep racism alive."
FIFY
They were up to this shit loooonnnnng before blacks ever had a clue we could even dislike y'all.
Thank God for Stokely Carmichael.
I am not yet tired of all of Osaka's winning.
Bigly.
/sarc
Politics ruins everything it touches.
Is the helpfulness of extra breaks the reason for tennis having a long history of people throwing fits? Or is there something about it that makes people feel especially angry?
From an athletic perspective, Williams is 36 and attempting a comeback. She is still a really good player it not hat she was at 25 (who is?). This is her second loss to Osaka, who is 20. She knows her era of dominance is closed and is having a tough time accepting it. It happens to every great athlete. It happened to Tiger Woods.
Big Mike said...
"Crack is, as usual, cracked."
And you guys, as usual, are left wondering why black people want nothing to do with you.
Just horrible people.
Was that Serena's coach also giving hand signs at the Kavanaugh hearings?
Tennis allows men in shorts. That is so vulgar it offends everyone. How’s that for smearing people?
Lets boil this down: All Japanese are racist now.
See how easy it is?
"Or is there something about it that makes people feel especially angry?"
I tried tennis once, but the damn ball wouldn't go where I wanted it to. I tried a different ball, but the same thing happened. It made me mad. I think that's what's going on.
A summery sport on a hot, clay court never appealed.
The female Race demands it’s share of Affirmative Action. That’s only fair.
Who is the villain of this piece?
Anyone bringing race into this. Or responding in kind to those who brought race into it.
Secondly, all those "the rules are the rules" types. And any other twit whose nose is up in the air sniffing about how utterly wretched Williams was.
Ughly
When I want to watch sports, I want to enjoy people doing things I cannot do.
That means a tantrum is a bad idea; I can do that without much effort.
The race and gender arguments are tedious and unproductive.
I will continue to leave others the hell alone if they will kindly return the favor.
Gahrie, your Comment Fu is strong today. Very strong indeed.
Doesn't golf also have a reputation for causing people to throw fits? Maybe there's something about country clubs.
I personally think tennis fucked-up when they banned the cat suit - the stage was set:
Nobody has to give a fuck about right and wrong if whites don't.
That's the rules.
Crack Emcee said:
"But how much they've been willing to dish out has no limits. Unfortunately, that is THE problem whites refuse to look at. - as they continue to threaten everyone - as we see here."
Writing off 63% of the population as enemies with crude and ignoble motives (and nothing else) is how you got Trump. This is how you get more Trump.
Maybe it’s because of my long career in computer science that I view people who live in the past with such contempt. When technology change forces one to live in the present, with an eye on the future, people who keep yawping about history seem to come from some slternate reality. Nurse your grievances little one; with your utter lack of talent and aversion to hard work, historical grievances is all you have left.
cronus titan said...
"This is how you get more Trump."
You're a moron: I like Trump.
Trump doesn't identify with racists - they identify with him.
I'm not going to fall for their charade: Trump likes blacks and has spent a lot of time proving it.
Y'all - on the other hand - not so much. And you've proven that, too.
"Doesn't golf also have a reputation for causing people to throw fits? Maybe there's something about country clubs."
Once again you have a game built around a troublesome, uncooperative ball. It's no wonder people get pissed.
Big Mike said...
Maybe it’s because of my long career in computer science that I view people who live in the past with such contempt.
What did Thomas Sowell say was one the biggest problem to the races getting together: condescension.
I'd work on that, if I were you.
"Or is there something about it that makes people feel especially angry?"
You mean, unlike in baseball, where absolutely no one ever argues with the umps? Or hockey? Or football?
Baseball and hockey are all about melees. Punches are thrown. I've never seen a tennis or golf melee though.
Here's Big Mike thinking he's being cool.
Meanwhile, Bill Gates is out helping people.
Crack Emcee,
Whatever. You made the statement. If you are sincere about your views of Trump, you are an awesome troll.
Players express anger and frustration in tennis because they are human. And because they recognize that all that civility bullshit is bullshit.
Gahrie said...
Come lynch me, Gahrie, as a warning to the others.
Fuck you, you racist asshole.
Hey, you said it, Buddy, not me. You say all kinds of crazy, racist things - all because you surround yourself with people who never tell you "No."
Practice makes perfect, Gahrie - and you're a perfect little Nazi.
Shooting sports probably have strict rules against fits.
Hey, Gahrie, I bet you can't go a whole day without saying racist shit. I haven't seen you do it yet.
Mark, baseball players get tossed from games all the time for arguing with umpires. They sort of take pride in it. Hockey and football players get rung up often for unsportsmanlike conduct for arguing with referees, though getting tossed from games is less frequent in those sports.
Freeman Hunt said...
"Shooting sports probably have strict rules against fits."
Blacks rarely go into the woods with whites for this reason.
"Blacks rarely go into the woods with whites for this reason."
Ha!
"Shooting sports probably have strict rules against fits."
Yup. And they don't allow balls.
Hey, Gahrie, I bet you can't go a whole day without saying racist shit. I haven't seen you do it yet.
Fuck you you racist fuck. I simply cannot understand why Althouse indulges you and thinks your destructive, counterproductive act is cute.
Hey, you said it, Buddy, not me.
Cite one time when I talked about or endorsed lynching a Black person you racist fuck, or shut the fuck up.
But I thought Serena was the best tennis player, of any gender, in the world!
Gahrie said...
"I simply cannot understand why Althouse indulges you and thinks your destructive, counterproductive act is cute."
Because I get to refute you. I know:
You simply can't understand why anyone thinks you're saying anything wrong.
Racists never do.
Gahrie said...
"I simply cannot understand why Althouse indulges you and thinks your destructive, counterproductive act is cute."
Let me try this: You are an angry, imprecise racist. So what's the best answer for the steady stream of unrelenting bullshit you unleash daily?
How about a guy playing an angry, imprecise racist? BUT BLACK!!!!
Oh, the educated - they are terrors to be avoided.
The point one has to make, when ignoring trolls, is to ignore whatever the troll says in response to your comment.
TCE largely ignores me because I just cannot be roused to care about his blather.
Some of you need practice with the first rule of ignoring trolls.
@ Crack Emcee - Crack, have you ever spent time in a black majority country? If so, I am curious how you felt there.k
I watched both the match and the award ceremony afterwards- The New York Post essay was the more accurate description of what happened in both cases, though a bit more inaccurate in the latter.
Williams' behavior on the court was as unsportsmanlike as you will see in professional tennis, and I write this as someone who watched John McEnroe at his worst in the late 70s and early 80s.
In the ceremony afterwards, Williams was, at best, grudgingly graceful to Osaka, and that only occurred once the booing started- enough, I think, to embarrass Williams enough to change her behavior. Where The Post gets it wrong, I believe, is that the booing was directed more at the USTA officials- one of whom was a dolt for stating something along the lines of "this wasn't the outcome most hoped for"- I would have booed that statement coming from such an official- it was an afront to Osaka. However, I also think the crowd did boo the outcome of the match, too. As an American, I was embarrassed by it all.
Why do we have MEN refereeing Women's tennis? Let Women do it. Problem solved.
And coaching thing, seems bizarre. They should get rid of that rule all together.
What can you say in a "hand signal"? And its not like Tennis is some complex sport. You probably have an IQ of 90 and be great Tennis player. Its not like being an NFL QB or a race car driver.
I'm trying to imagine Golf Coaches - oh wait, Golfers do have "coaches" they're called Caddies. And everyone accepts them.
I'll be sympathetic to women tennis players and constant whining when they start playing 5 sets - just like the men. Oh wait. they LIKE that inequality, so its A-OK.
And thank God we had a POC playing another POC - with Portuguese ref. Think of the crap we'd be hearing if Williams had lost to a Russian with White Referee.
Bill Peschel asked:
"Did the Atlantic article also mention Serena's coach was caught giving her signals from the cheap seats?"
Only indirectly, and they didn't mention that he admitted to doing so afterwards. It didn't matter whether or not the umpire knows Williams saw it or not- Williams is responsible for her coach's behavior in the stands. In any case, my memory is that it was only a warning at that point- it was the reaction afterwards that lead to the penalty.
Ya'll should read the comments on The Cut article. They are 99% against Serena's behavior and many of the commenters follow tennis so their remarks are well-informed. They also do a better job of conveying the fact that Serena was a rage-monster for much of the match, and was also timing her outbursts to coincide with Osaka's serve.
A much better take than even the Post's, by of all things, the failing NY Daily News:
But she wasn’t cheated Saturday. She lost to a player who was overpowering her. She couldn’t land her first serve. She ran out of answers. She had a meltdown because she knew she lost.
The only person who deserves an apology is Osaka.
Serena Williams' racket only served to steal the moment from Naomi Osaka, who was the better player in U.S. Open final
@Crack (10:31) if you really understood what Tom Sowell was saying, you'd get that he's warning you that those people -- like Inga -- who (figuratively speaking) pat you on the head and say "There, there you poor dear" are not your friends. They are your worst enemies.
""I simply cannot understand why Althouse indulges you and thinks your destructive, counterproductive act is cute.""
I did delete one comment in this thread. But it wasn't from Crack. It was from someone who I'm pretty sure was a moby who came in at the very beginning to say something stupidly racist about Osaka. Completely insincere effort to hijack the discussion, with the use of an offensive term that refers to the Chinese (which Osaka isn't even).
The US Open Tennis crowd has ALWAYS been known for being low-class loudmouths.
The American announcers always excuse it, or try to make it into a virtue. They're "energetic" and "earthy" and "Full of life" unlike the stuffy Brits at Wimbledon.
So, you get this trashy behavior. But then Tennis hasn't been the sport of "ladies and Gentlemen" since Jimmy Connors burst on the scene.
rcocean wrote:
"Why do we have MEN refereeing Women's tennis? Let Women do it. Problem solved."
I assume this was tongue in cheek, but if I am remembering correctly, Williams' other famous US Open blowup was directed at a female umpire or linesman.
So Serena Williams cheated, was beat, lost - but we are all racists for noticing that she and her fans are sore loser jerks?
Predictable.
I don't get the whole racism, sexism thing.
We are all just living on a rock hurtling through space circling the sun not knowing what all the laundry symbols on our tags mean but throwing them in the machine anyway and hoping for the best.
Osaka as Chinese? LOL.
That is really is Moby behavior.
And you guys, as usual, are left wondering why black people want nothing to do with you.
You now this for a fact, Crack? A lot of black people have a lot to do with me. Including my biracial daughter and my late ex-husbands family, friends and former coworkers. You don't know shit about me or my multiracial family. And I still question whether or not you are black, other than your avatar. Yo' mama!
Crack, you shouldn't have to be reminded that it is democrats who have the long history of lynching others, including other whites. Gahrie is not a democrat.
"I assume this was tongue in cheek, but if I am remembering correctly, Williams' other famous US Open blowup was directed at a female umpire or linesman."
No. I'm absolutely serious. I'm so tired of chicks whining about sexism. Take the men out of their game - completely.
I'm surprised some chick tennis star hasn't accused their male coach of harrassment or complained of some Male Ref "ogling" them.
With women its NEVER about the game. Its always about the drama.
The Daily News article was right- Williams was beaten soundly by a better player yesterday- the match really wasn't close- penalty or not.
"I simply cannot understand why Althouse indulges you and thinks your destructive, counterproductive act is cute."
There's not much I think is "cute" here. I wish Bissage would come back. That guy was cute. I could use more cuteness.
If you want to talk about indulgence, there's shitload of indulgence here, but there's no reason to single out Crack as especially indulged. Maybe you're just irked because he won't indulge you. I recommend sticking to the substance and answering back or just skipping stuff that bothers you. Making it personal is rarely a good idea here, and attacking me when I'm keeping an open forum isn't a terrible ingenious approach.
The lines between cheating and breaking the rules in sports are sometimes arbitrary. Being penalized or even ejected for flagrant fouls in football or basketball is part of the game, but under inflating footballs is apparently way worse.
Still, hardly anyone views coaching in tennis as cheating, and it is based on the coach’s conduct. Almost every player looks up at their coach for a signal on whether to challenge a line call from time to time.
If you respond to someone, naming them and trying to push them back when you know it's someone who responds to attacks, you are elevating and aggrandizing the person.
I did delete one comment in this thread. But it wasn't from Crack. It was from someone who I'm pretty sure was a moby who came in at the very beginning to say something stupidly racist about Osaka.
@Althouse, I saw that one. It was so over the top I assumed it was parody. Are you sure it wasn't? (Not that I'm defending it.)
@Althouse, I also miss Edjumacated Redneck and Hoosier Daddy.
Big Mike, of course it was a parody but, you know, That's not funny!
Why don't tennis players work out hand signals with their coaches before matches?
Every third base coach has new signals every game to communicate with batters.
Softball and baseball players learn this stuff by 10.
Shield eyes from sun: serve wide.
Readjust hat: serve up the T.
Wipe sweat from eyes: serve and volley.
Better planning and signals are pretty easy.
baseball players get tossed from games all the time for arguing with umpires. They sort of take pride in it.
Most of the arguing does not get one ejected. But even when it does, neither they nor the fans "tsk-tsk" with a case of the vapors because of it.
I haven't heard of a shred of evidence that the official used any type of sexist language (actual not made up micro-aggression bullshit) towards Serena or displayed any other sexist or discriminatory conduct. Both players are women and played by the same rules adjudicated by the official. The principal claim seems that because he's a man and Serena is a woman that it is sexist. That's garbage. Accusing this man of sexism without evidence of his state of mind is disgraceful. Either present the evidence or shut the fuck up already.
Racism has been brought into this, but I think the spark of the fireworks is the expectations the Elite have for their efforts.
Serena acted like our Media, our Politicians, our Academia: she believes she is the winner before the game is even played. Her shoe-endorsements are her credentials: the game is a formality, an event to be plugged into pre-written copy.
Now, when the Elite realize they are losing, they throw a tantrum to derail the game; they shout to shut down the situation that is not to their liking; they denigrate the judges that rule against them.
Serena has battled a lot of adversarial odds in her career -- including, yes, racism -- but at this point she is like the long-serving incumbent in a gerrymandered district: the idea of losing must be someone else's mistake.
She entered the sport as overwhelmingly stronger than most of her competitors; now, time has passed, and the new competitors are stronger than before, and her strength is no longer enough sometimes, especially as her age becomes a greater factor. She is the late-career slugger who can still jack it into the stands, but not against the best pitchers anymore.
Letting go gracefully is not a black-or-white thing; I wish her luck in accepting the sunset.
I am Laslo.
Why is coaching during the game not allowed? Is it in honor of the genesis story of tennis wherein cavepersons Grook and Uka met alone upon the flat desert plain and, without any coaching at all, batted a skull back and forth over the sinew of a red deer?
Most of the arguing does not get one ejected
Must have called the guy a cocksucker.
Serena won the popular vote. She persisted. Nike will make a new ad for her.
"or just skipping stuff that bothers you."
Which is what I do, for what it's worth. Scroll up, see the name, skip the comment.
I just wish this commenting had a Mute button like Facebook. It would make the discussion much more interesting.
I don't watch that much tennis, but I do prefer woman's tennis matches. Some of the girls are really cute. I generally root for the cuter girl, regardless of nationality. My sexism is purer than my nationalism....... Maybe this sexism problem could be ameliorated if they had woman umpires. But the woman umpire should be good looking and wear yoga pants.........The umpire did not act with serene perfection. The umpire was not good enough for Serena. Serena can have her outbursts, but the umpire has to be perfect.......I'm sure Serena's life has had its hurdles, and I'm sure Serena has been a hurdle in other people's lives.
Why don't tennis players work out hand signals with their coaches before matches?
What makes you think they don't? Even the commentators understood what her coach was signalling for her to do. But I'm sure many get away with it.
I'm kind of glad it's not allowed, even if it's hard to enforce. Allowing it (as some smaller tournaments do) will only make the matches longer, and more about the coaches, less about the players.
"Serena acted like our Media, our Politicians, our Academia: she believes she is the winner before the game is even played. Her shoe-endorsements are her credentials: the game is a formality, an event to be plugged into pre-written copy."
You are Laslo, and it is good.
This one is easy to solve. The Tennis Association needs to establish some rules for appealing incorrect, biased and/or unfair rulings by Chair Judges. Once a protest is made, the match winner cannot be determined until a predetermined set of judges rule on the contest's status . . . and there is an automatic five-point penalty for crying.
With apologies to Elvis, God rest his soul:
You saw me crying at the Grand Slam Finals
The tears I shed weren't tears of joy
I know the meaning of contemptuosness
I'd rather lose than cheat the Lord
You saw me crying at the Grand Slam Awards
The tears I shed were tears of joy
I know the meaning of competitveness
I got her again, Oh Boy! Oh Boy!
I see Williams was fined $17K for her actions.
11:22 - Laslo - really you aced it.
Serena has battled "racism"? When did that happen?
Last time i looked she was a tennis player and worth over $100 million. Other than playing tennis well - for a girl - she hasn't done much of anything.
I didn't realize she was civil right icon. I guess she demanded to sit in the front of the bus that took her to center Court and Wimbledon or something.
"Letting go gracefully is not a black-or-white thing; I wish her luck in accepting the sunset."
Yes. that was well stated.
She is an amazing athlete, but she is also human. Age and recent pregnancy have taken their toll; she is unlikely to regain her past dominance.
Her temper tantrum is understandable. It has nothing to do with racism or sexism.
Ann Althouse said...
"If you respond to someone, naming them and trying to push them back when you know it's someone who responds to attacks, you are elevating and aggrandizing the person."
As the four-year-olds put it, "I know you are, but what am I?"
"I generally root for the cuter girl, regardless of nationality."
I like their gasps and grunts, like you just stuck it in all the way.
"Now, when the Elite realize they are losing, they throw a tantrum to derail the game; they shout to shut down the situation that is not to their liking; they denigrate the judges that rule against them."
Excellent.
It's going to be interesting to see how leftist sportswriters deal with the first time a "white" transgender-woman beats a non-transgender* "woman of color" on the playing field.
*I don't dare use the words "normal" or "ordinary" to describe an XX woman.
“Now, when the Elite realize they are losing, they throw a tantrum to derail the game; they shout to shut down the situation that is not to their liking; they denigrate the judges that rule against them.”
Serena is the Hillary Clinton of tennis. She’s built like her too.
Oso Negro said...
"@ Crack Emcee - Crack, have you ever spent time in a black majority country? If so, I am curious how you felt there.k"
No, but you should've been able to guess that: most blacks have never traveled anywhere, thanks to America. They don't even get vacations.
If you've wondered if I've seen extreme poverty, then yes, I've been to the Philippines - America's whorehouse - and, if you're wondering if I've seen dysfunction, then yes - I've lived in France. But I experienced both of those phenomena long before, just by living here, where whites forced blacks to congregate with nothing.
I almost went to Africa once, but - as I've stated here before - I have no idea where my people are from (other than "West Africa") so the opportunity left me more confused and troubled than feeling adventurous (Thanks, America!) My godmother had been countless times, so it's not a foreign concept - just a foreign place.
Here's what's curious: Why are conservatives constantly trying to disconnect American blacks from America? Why your focus on Africa - when we want to talk about American actions and American crimes and American history and American behavior and American culture? Talk about reparations - conservatives start jawboning about Africa - when Africa didn't violate their Bill Of Rights or say someone wasn't fully a person.
It appears all conservatives are interested in is changing the topic.
Night Owl, perhaps you know that 'Renee' Richards was a transgendered pro tennis player in the 1970's. But of course 'gender reassignment' was not all the rage as it is now. And transgendered individuals should never be allowed to compete in sports unless in their original gender.
It's too bad she didn't get a warning before he took the game. It all was a great example of two people escalating the situation vs. de-escalating.
It's amazing how fast Serena got back into top shape after childbirth & a C-Section. Her birth was dangerous.
On "Trolls": There's little tolerance for divergent political opinions on this blog, not from the majority of posters, but from a few actors. They throw out personal insults and attempt to pull the non-conforming poster into personal fights.
For example, one poster cursed by baby and told me by child was going to hell. I do not swear at commenters, I do not personally insult them, I would never say that about someone or their children. Yet, I've been called a C*nt and my child has been cursed to hell.
I've seen one commenter go after posters by insulting personal names, and try, repeatedly, to pull them into personal fights. I've seen this poster deliberately mis-represent comments. It's a natural impulse to correct someone you think is misreading. However, this is intentional abuse of classic liberal debate. The person is not talking in good faith, but wants it to devolve into a personal mess of a thread.
It's hard to keep turning the other cheek. I believe that is the right thing to do, but it's not surprising commenters punch back at those type of attacks.
So the thread turns into a mess.
It's easy to blame a scapegoat you have identified as "not on your team." It's too easy. Way too easy.
cronus titan said...
"If you are sincere about your views of Trump, you are an awesome troll."
I am an awesome Troll.
“Here's what's curious: Why are conservatives constantly trying to disconnect American blacks from America? Why your focus on Africa - when we want to talk about American actions and American crimes and American history and...”
Why the silly “African American” term? The term disconnects blacks from the rest of Americans. Did a white collar conservative flashing down the street make up that term?
This post is about a Black woman who had a beef with a Hispanic man as she was losing a tennis match to another Black woman. Yet our resident racist fucktard has spent the whole morning trying to make it all about White racism against Black people. That's the whole problem is a nutshell people.
Why are conservatives constantly trying to disconnect American blacks from America? Why your focus on Africa
Because Black people have spent the last thirty years demanding we call them African-Americans instead.
I was watching the Clemson vs A&M game last night, thus ESPN (sadly, they are carrying the Astros vs Red Sox game tonight too). They only covered Serena getting mad at the umpire. They didn't cover the fans booing the winner, or the USTA President's shameful comments. And yeah, I consider stating "Perhaps it’s not the finish we were looking for today, but Serena, you are a champion of all champions" to be inappropriate when handing an award to the US Open Champion, who is not Serena. The UTSA President might as well asked Osaka why she ruined the US Open for the fans. Anyway, ESPN glossed over all the negatives of the US Open organization. Which would be fine, if ESPN didn't spend so much time on how athletes should behave.
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