From "Feminists in Line for Free Lipstick/Nothing says 'I’m a woman' like a red lip. But a red lip costs $18.50 plus tax," by Mary Mann (in the NYT). In the comments over there, lots of people are telling her that you can buy much cheaper lipstick at the drugstore. Mann never explains why having an expensive brand matters when it comes to vying for a higher paying job. But she did wait in line for over an hour to get a free tube of lipstick (and material for a NYT "think" piece).
Here's some 99¢ red lipstick at Amazon.
Whenever I read about the importance of lipstick specifically, I remember something I read in a fashion magazine back in the 1970s (when I had a job reading magazines): The term "WASP makeup" meant just lipstick. You can apply your racial studies education to theorizing about why lipstick and only lipstick was called "WASP makeup." And then why "Nothing says 'I’m a woman' like a red lip." And what that full face of heavy makeup says.
ADDED: Here's an article from last year, "I wore red lipstick with no other makeup for a week — and it did nothing for my confidence" (The Insider). The author, Brianna Arps (who appears to be a black woman) says:
Rather than going all-out with my beauty routine like I normally do, I thought not having any other makeup on besides the lipstick would help me discover if wearing red can really make you feel as powerful as some experts claim....
However, no one — not even my boyfriend — addressed the fact that I looked any different.... No one cared, except me.... the only comments I received were compliments....
It may sound cliché, but the whole ordeal proved that true confidence comes from within. Although I write about beauty and body positivity for a living... wearing just red lipstick without any other makeup made me feel self-conscious.
Struggling to figure out why, I ultimately realized that I am my best, most fierce self when I wear makeup and this is perfectly fine.... As long as I'm happy, with or without red lipstick, I'm more powerful than ever.
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Nothing says 'I'm a WASP' like a black and yellow striped lip.
I'm addicted to Chapstick. The uncovered lip is not worth living.
And what that full face of heavy makeup says? Gargoyle.
Gargoyle?
I was thinking mime.
"You can apply your racial studies education to theorizing about why lipstick and only lipstick was called "WASP makeup." "
way too intersectional for me. I'll wait for my betters to tell me this eternal truth.
I associate lipstick with unkissable. The stuff comes off and leaves your own lips feeling lipstuck.
Can women tell when another woman is wearing expensive lipstick versus 99 cent lipstick? Wife says no. I need DBQ and Freeman Hunt to weigh in.
I assure you we men can’t.
"I assure you we men can’t."
-- I can't tell the difference between high end and low end suits or ties for men. Hell if I'm going to expend energy knowing whether make up is expensive or cheap.
And what that full face of heavy makeup says.
It says “if you could see my face without all this makeup you would puke all over my shoes.”
The Chive (a bro site, think Instagram for young horny men) has run a series of photos of porn actresses with and without makeup. The difference can be pretty startling. Conventionally pretty women look almost otherworldly gorgeous (or unsettlingly so if they overdo it).
In short: Makeup works.
“Pink Tax”?
Who makes them pay it? Is there an armed agency or two of the the government out there somewhere forcing them to buy lipstick that I don’t know about? Women are more than complicit in this, they are the agents of their own suffering if it is suffering. What about the “tax” on men who would mostly be happier living by the river in shacks and hunting and fishing if it weren’t for the “needs” of women and our need for women.
The thing about lipstick is you have to re-apply it all the time. It comes off on everything, it comes off by itself.
My parent spent a lot of time on this project and I swore off, though I suppose it would improve my pale face. But it always just looked like a big messy blob to me.
It's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull.
Matt, I could tell the difference between a silk tie and a cheap polyester one, and between a tailored suit and something off the rack from Macy’s. And I was a hardcore techie. You need to identify the decision maker in the room, and sell that person on what you are presenting. Costliness of clothing is one cue (but only one).
As a man, which do you prefer?
Coming home with cheap lipstick all over your expensive shirt tail or expensive lipstick all over your cheap shirt tail?
@tim, they compare chap stick and lip balm to lipstick and claim that they are alike except for price. Poor women! Oh woe is them that they must live among males.
The red mummy technique would be more efficient with modern cosmetics:
"The red mummy technique (2500 BC to 2000 BC) was a technique in which rather than disassemble the body, many incisions were made in the trunk and shoulders to remove internal organs and dry the body cavity. The head was cut from the body so that the brain could be removed, after which the skin would be pasted back on, which would often just be covered with a clay mask.
The body was packed with various materials to return it to somewhat more-normal dimensions, sticks used to strengthen it, and the incisions sewn up using reed cord. The head was placed back on the body, this time with a wig made from tassels of human hair up to 60 cm long. A "hat" made out of black clay held the wig in place. Except for the wig and often the (black) face, everything was then painted with red ochre."
"And then why "Nothing says 'I’m a woman' like a red lip.""
Agreed. and that is because they are mimicking sexually stimulated, blood engorged, vulva on their face. Even better if you add a bit of colegian to plump up the lips even more, accentuating even more the apparent level sexual stimulation.
"And what that full face of heavy makeup says."
Heavy makeup to me either means bad skin, or some other deep insecurity underneath. And, of course, with older women, it means to me that they are trying to compete for men with younger women with more youthful looking skin.
Or, then there are people who wear it professionally. Maybe 15 years ago, we ran into one of the local news anchors at a club one night. As guys were wont to do, he asked my partner out. She declined, telling him that she didn't date guys who wear more makeup than she does. And, yes, he was apparently wearing makeup that night, and she probably wasn't. . She ran into the weather guy a couple weeks later, and apparently that had been a great favorite around the office those last several weeks as the best put down the news guy had had in a long time.
I don't wear makeup regularly. I do wear lipstick more often. I buy a Covergirl long lasting for about 7 bucks. It doesn't come off on my husband. But if I don't remember to put on lipstick, no big deal. The thing about makeup and lipstick is, once you start, it's hard to stop because your face never sees the sun. It's funny that lipstick is such a big deal. I always heard it was mascara.
As I get older, I find concealer is what I need. There are blemishes from a lifetime of sun exposure and dark circles under my eyes from lack of sleep that need to be hidden. It's the only make up I usually wear, unless I know that photos will be taken, then I add a lightly applied foundation over the concealer. I rarely wear lipstick. If I only wore lipstick I would look like a ghoul.
If you want to see if RED lipstick makes a difference, add RED lipstick and leave the rest of your make up the same.
Sheesh.
Did this woman never take a science class?
[When I see a woman heavily made up, she might be fantastic looking, but my first thought is how bad would she look fresh from the shower.]
I love a woman's lipstick.
Around the base of my cock.
Should be easy to connect the dots, there.
Mascara left on my testicles might take a little more imagination.
I am Laslo.
The best longlasting, perfect red lipstick I've ever worn is NYX matte lipstick in Alabama. It's $5.97 at Walmart. A 99-cent lipstick is often very slippery and will rush headlong into those vertical lip lines.Not a good look if you're trying to project a certain image.
I associate lipstick with the red rings around the white cigarette butts in my grandma’s ashstray
@Laslo, but what does the girl on a treadmill with a pony tail (swish, swish) think about it?
I agree that 99¢ lipstick is probably inferior, but there are many fine drugstore brands — Revlon, L'Oreal, Maybelline — that cost about $5. There's no reason anyone needs better than that other than to make the inside of your head feel glamorous.
"The Chive (a bro site, think Instagram for young horny men) has run a series of photos of porn actresses with and without makeup. The difference can be pretty startling. Conventionally pretty women look almost otherworldly gorgeous (or unsettlingly so if they overdo it). In short: Makeup works."
I looked up that site and my impression was that most of them looked really similar with make up on or off. Some looked better with makeup but the prettiest ones looked better without makeup. It made me think of the line in David Foster Wallace's essay about porn ("Big Red Son"): "Without their makeup and appurtenances, Savage and Dane look even prettier; the B-girls do not."
I don't know where this observation applies.
It certainly doesn't seem to have caught on with women in tech or corporate management, as these all wear no makeup, or at least try to seem that they aren't.
Not much to be seen either at after-hours corporate-type pubs (the "Royal Exchage" in San Francisco, say), or power-lunch places in SF's financial district.
Some of you mention Chapstick. I don't know what that costs, but for years, I've used Sugar Lip Treatment. It's very nice lip balm. And I pay about $25 a tube for it. I keep one near my computer, one in the bathroom, one near the bed, and one in my handbag. So I've always got $100 worth of lip balm in current use -- not counting the backups in my bathroom cabinet that will move into action if any of the 4 get used up.
And I use lipstick too, although most of my lipstick came free as a bonus when I order the main thing I spend money on at the makeup site I use: moisturizer.
When I saw that Althouse was talking about something from New York Times (that newspaper that hires racist Asians, because reasons) I wondered if the writer also hates white men.
I always have at least $5 worth of Chapstick (or store brands) around me at all times. I feel like King Midas.
I remember a meeting of WASP women once when I was fully made up from both an eye and skin moisturizer under the foundation to 3 different eye shadow colors, a neutral lipstick, outlined of course.... My bff asked why I wasn't wearing makeup. Perhaps my lifelong goal of subtlety was a mistake?
Red lipstick is a mistake on women without freshly bleached teeth.
Laslo Spatula said...
I love a woman's lipstick.
Around the base of my cock.
Should be easy to connect the dots, there.
Mascara left on my testicles might take a little more imagination.
I am Laslo.
8/4/18, 9:38 AM
How funny - I was just wondering what the bee mouth on the next post would look like if it was, er, occupied as you describe. Talk about sticking your dick in a hornet's nest!
It says something when a woman shows up to a 6:00 a.m. spin class wearing bright red lipstick. I’m not sure what- but something.
Oh great, now feminists are going to demand a government program to pay for lipstick otherwise women will be denied access to higher paying jobs.
In short: Makeup works
There is a difference in seeing a person via video or film, or seeing them in person.
A lot of time, that "concealer" is not very well concealed.
Women talk themselves into all sorts of bad ideas.
Too much make-up is one. Another is short old-lady hair.
I once forked over a ridiculous sum for the perfect MAC shade. Then Ree Drummond dropped the tip that Maybelline had the same shade and it stays on longer and feels better..for $5.
You might like Monique Parent, she does mature looks for glam and everyday and has embraced gray hair. Daily I only wear tinted moisturizer and lip color but it's nice to know a few tricks at our age,no?
https://youtu.be/M59J0bzqfSs
"Nothing says 'I’m a woman' like a red lip.""
****************
Isn't that how Bill Clinton consoled Juanita Broaddrick?
Don't forget Stila's Beso True Red lipstick!!! Nothing says:
I'm a rich little daddy's girl,
That works as a cocktail waitress
And LOVES Socialism, and HATES America
Like Stila's Beso True Red lipstick!!!
When I was in high school I looked around at the adults around me and it seemed the men over 40 looked so much better than then women except for a few beatnik type women I knew who didn't wear make up. Then I read a study that said that most women look in the mirror and think they look terrible and most men look in the mirror and think they look okay. I decided to cultivate the latter attitude and eschew make up. I obtained a high paying job without it and other than one date when I was asked why I didn't wear make up like the waitress did, I don't recall anyone ever saying anything. There was no second date.
Leora for the win!
It's not about how others see you. It is how you want to see yourself. If you want to wear red lipstick or have blue hair or earrings or grow a US Grant beard or shave your head but for a tassel or only wear orange : this is your life.
HOWEVER : Certainly the choices you make in terms of how you present yourself to others will impact on how others perceive you. Guess what? You don't get to control others. So if you think it is unfair if people don't like you're beard, go live in a shack where you can tell the squirrels what they are allowed to think or say. Otherwise, live your life in the body you want. Bearded painted etc.
Cake and eat it too syndrome v.3,459
I can blame autocorrect for the you're thing but my father suggested something once about my poor carpentery.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
“Some of you mention Chapstick. I don't know what that costs, but for years, I've used Sugar Lip Treatment. It's very nice lip balm. And I pay about $25 a tube for it. I keep one near my computer, one in the bathroom, one near the bed, and one in my handbag. So I've always got $100 worth of lip balm in current use -- not counting the backups in my bathroom cabinet that will move into action if any of the 4 get used up”
You can consistently pick up regular/original Chapstick for $1 at Walmart and Kroger’s grocery store. Last week, at several Walmart’s, I couldn’t find the regular stuff, then found one tube, priced at 75¢, explaining the dearth of this essential at other Walmarts. Convenience stores tend to sell tubes at $2. My partner goes through roughly a tube a week, so I usually have a stock at hand. Except that I have to be careful at this time of year, due to the heat, which can weaken it enough that break a new tube fairly easily - so she is always checking to make sure that I hadn’t left the tube I just gave her out in the heat. And one of the reasons for grateful is that worry is that she also uses it to protect her nose, which means that a tube of Chapstick breaking in her nose can be embarrassing (esp knowing that I will try to get a picture of it if it happens around me) and is not the easiest thing to dig out (making any photos of such even more entertaining).
Just kidding about the photos- she has a list of times when I am not to photograph her, and this is high on that list. Still, one can dream.
Life isn’t fair and makeup won’t make a plain woman beautiful. It takes being an interesting person who is also interested in others to make a plain woman beautiful. Guys will look for beauty in a woman they are interested in, even if it is hard to find at first.
I know I sound a bit cynical about makeup and lipstick, but I have spent almost two decades now with a woman who modeled professionally through high school and college, and was professionally trained to apply such. Anymore, she wears lipstick and makeup every several months when we go out for the evening somewhere to dance. She has classic French features, and uses makeup, in particular, to accentuate her high cheekbones. She also darkens her almost blond eyelashes and eyebrows. Not much else. In those 20 years, have never seen her wear red lipstick though. She considers it almost slutty during the day, and only acceptable an night, out with her husband or committed boyfriend (also the only time she shows cleavage in public).
But her younger sister, despite the same modeling training, wears a lot of makeup, and has since she was a teenager. My partner suspects that it partly to conver up skin issues (which were most likely made worse by the continued use of makeup), partially made insecurity, and maybe partially because their mother always wore such while they were growing up. There is something reassuring apparently about the smell.
lots of people are telling her that you can buy much cheaper lipstick at the drugstore.
that cracks me up so much
it's George Bush shopping for groceries all over again
also funny
a NYT "think" piece
which reminds me of Almost Famous and how Cameron Crowe got his first articles published in Rolling Stone
as opposed to the normal shit we publish
we're thinking on this one
"Can women tell when another woman is wearing expensive lipstick versus 99 cent lipstick?"
Another woman? Not sure. On yourself based on the feel of it? Yes.
I rarely wear lipstick. Looks different on different people. Looks dramatic on me.
If wearing lipstick or makeup makes you feel better about yourself, and therefore more self confident, that confidence is what will help you get the job, if you have what it takes. Does anyone really think she is going to get hired because of the color of her lipstick? Sometimes I have to step back and remind myself that there are a lot of low IQ people in this world. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.
Let's face it, putting on makeup is easier than making sure you get enough exercise, get enough sleep, drink enough water, eat fresh food, etc. Those are the factors which determine the quality of your skin and your eye health, too. BTW I looked at those photos of the porn stars, with and without makeup, and agree with Ann that the best looking are the few who look great either way.
it's George Bush shopping for groceries all over again
It was a lie from our sainted press and you should know that by now. George HW Bush saw a next-gen scanners at a trade show-it processed a whole cart of groceries in a few seconds without human intervention. It would be like Harry Truman seeing a F-14 Tomcat in 1947 and saying he never saw anything like that. And having the Media say "Huh, he hasn't seen an airplane! What a doofus!"
I wear lipstick (usually a light pink or rose color, which suits my complexion), mascara, and a little eyeliner (not a thick line and no dramatic 60's Barbra Streisand style wings flaring out. I'll leave that to the younger ladies). I have never worn foundation and blush because I don't need it and it always made me feel like I was wearing a mask.
My lips, while not quite in Jagger's league, are full enough that wearing red lipstick would make me look like one giant mouth walking down the street.
It seems to me that, like hemlines which go up or do, the focus on lips vs. eyes as the feature to accentuate changes from decade to decade. My mother did indeed wear red lipstick and powder, but no eye makeup, in the 1950's. In the 60's, the mod girls wore very pale lipstick and a lot of eye makeup. In the '70's, the look was more natural (with the exception of glittery eye shadow,which I experimented with with disastrous results) but the emphasis was still on eyes, not lips. My friends and I wore "lip blush" in college and I knew a lot of boomer women who never wore lipstick at all. I also knew men who said they hated it because they didn't appreciate getting Lancome on their lips when they kissed women. The problem with lipstick is that it's messy. It gets on glasses and cups and having lipstick get on your teeth ruins the impression you're trying to make when you're dressed to the nines to impress. It's like having toilet paper sticking to your shoe.
Freeman Hunt said...
"Can women tell when another woman is wearing expensive lipstick versus 99 cent lipstick?"
Another woman? Not sure. On yourself based on the feel of it? Yes.
8/4/18, 3:29 PM
I have found cheap lipstick (and cheap makeup in general) doesn't stay on very long and the cheaper brands of lipstick tend to dry out my lips.
Maybelline Great Lash Mascara is fine though and just as good as any $30 department store brand.
Maybe wearing lipstick, etc., for some women is like the athlete who wears his lucky shirt or some such confidence builder. It's more superstition than an actual performance aid. Also, I'm sure there are women who do have to compensate for being "women" at work by boosting their appearance and makeup does help.
Decades ago I managed a small restaurant with the foulest smelling grease pit out back. Once a month a cosmetics company sent a truck around to collect it. Lipstick never looked the same to me and I find it disgusting, but there are plenty of women who rarely wear it.
Every few years, I get this wild hair up my bee-hind, go through the cigarbox storage bin under the sink, throw out my old makeup purchases, then buy new stuff. Invariably, there is a tube of lipstick. Why do I do this? No idea. It's never more than maybe $15 or so spent all-told, but I don't get it. Maybe because I don't want to run the risk of not catching some sort of ick that the Feminine Press tells me I'll get if I don't change my products every few weeks or so?
Since I am an extremely pale red-head type (nickname was "Powder" in High School / Virtual Female, among other things, in college, due to the Rand McNally map of veins on my arms and legs), have just found that sun protection, a good moisturizer, and maybe an only slightly tinted lipgloss do the trick.
Internal hydration, too, is important: usually 8-10 eight ounce glasses of water a day. Any and all caffeine is from tea (theine?).
Males who are looking for vulva faces and long hair to pull, and the women who support that market aren't really in my realm of interest, so I'm kind of not tailoring myself to them.
Be, you think men like long hair on women because they like to pull it?
I dated men who liked to run their fingers though my hair. Not one ever pulled it, since I did not go out with cavemen.
"Mann never explains why having an expensive brand matters when it comes to vying for a higher paying job. But she did wait in line for over an hour to get a free tube of lipstick (and material for a NYT "think" piece)."
She is signaling that she is high-class, yet frugal. She is also confessing her guilty participation in the structure of oppression, which insidiously corrupts even the most trivial daily interactions. A micro-oppression, if you will.
She is also documenting the high monetary and time costs of the "woman tax" (this is where a cheap lipstick would never do). Specific, demonstrated costs to be probably repaid through a government subsidy.
There's also the emotional labor she had to put into writing this article and which also deserves compensation.
Overall, she is probably frustrated with the stupid men in her life for not understanding the high costs and emotional toll of being a woman. It's blindingly obvious to her, but those people are in denial and just can't see it. Hence this article, a gently sarcastic introduction to feminism for those among us who are still blind to American women's issues.
This is probably what passes for next-wave feminism nowadays.
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