Writes Kevin Noble Maillard (a lawprof) in "When Being a Good ‘Dad’ Gets You Promoted to ‘Mommy’" (NYT). His 3-year-old daughter calls him "Mommy." And his 5-year-old son had called both parents “mama” until he was "steer[ed]" toward "papa" and took to calling his father "Mimi."
Maillard — who knows of a 10-year-old boy who calls his father “Honey” — likes the idea of children being "creative" in what to call their parents. He contrasts that to grandparents, who choose what they are to be called.
Did you know grandparents have that privilege? I experienced that phenomenon in my childhood, when my paternal grandmother — who felt she was too youthful to be called "grandma" — got away with determining that she would be called "Mom" (and therefore that her husband was "Pop"). I grew up thinking of "Mom" and "Pop" as words for grandparents and never advanced from calling my mother "Mommy" to calling her "Mom." She simply became "Mother."
As for my father, he was, for me, for his entire life and beyond, "Daddy." I never got the slightest clue whether he started that or perpetuated it or whether he liked it or not. Maybe that was because it was a time in American culture when fathers didn't muse openly about how they felt about relationships.
Anyway, on the topic of grandparents claiming the power to name themselves, Maillard links to "Grandude? G-dawg? Nonny? Boomers Name Themselves" (NYT):
... I know a grandma who goes by Z. And one who has zero Italian ancestors but nonetheless dubbed herself Nonny, a variant on Nonna, because it felt distinctive. And a Brookline, Mass., woman named Suzanne Modigliani, whose daughter’s friends used to abbreviate that to SuMo. Now, she’s GranMo....Ha ha. Just like Mom in the 1940s! (I was born in 1951, but I was the third grandchild.)
... Georgia Witkin’s “The Modern Grandparent’s Handbook” actually lists 251 grandparental names (I counted), divided by gender into three categories: Traditional, Trendy and Playful. I wouldn’t volunteer to be known as Sweetums, G-dawg, Faux Pa or Grandude, however playfully, but apparently some folks have....
Partly, it’s a boomer thing. Tradition didn’t always seem a good enough reason....
But here’s my deeper suspicion: However mightily my peers may pine for grandchildren and adore them when they arrive, some don’t want to acknowledge being old enough to be dubbed Grandpop or Granny...
My friend Ellen Edwards Villa sent her mother a “grandma” charm for her charm bracelet when her first grandchild was born. The gift came back by return mail. Her mother, a mere 69 at the time, objected that she wasn’t old enough to be a grandma. She insisted her grandchildren call her Sweetie Pie, instead, and they did.Ha. When my first husband told his mother we were going to have a baby — her first grandchild — what he thought would be funny and nice was to call her on the phone and respond to her "hello" with "Hi, Grandma." She was not delighted but offended. Instead of talking about this wonderful new person approaching our world, the subject had to be the way she was not old.
Boomers always think it's about Boomers, but this thing of women insisting they are not old is old old old.
Which is why I prefer to say I am old.
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These names grandmas assign themselves aren't universally accepted by the grandkids who inevitably coin their own terms. It does not please the grandmas.
My parents and in laws are all immigrants to ?North America, so they chose to go with their home countries’ words - Dutch, German and Danish, except my Mom who just chose Nana. Of course, they are all pre-Boomer.
I love being Dad. Best title and job a guy could have. At least until I reach Opa.
I opted for Ze with my grandkids.
I started out as "grandpa," but one of the twins had trouble saying that and it came out as "paw-paw."
The other grandkids liked that, so "paw-paw" it is.
Shakespeare never used the word "daddy," but he did use "dad" 3 times, most notably in King John in these lines for Philip the Bastard"
Here's a stay
That shakes the rotten carcass of old Death
Out of his rags! Here's a large mouth, indeed,
That spits forth death and mountains, rocks and seas,
Talks as familiarly of roaring lions
As maids of thirteen do of puppy-dogs!
What cannoneer begot this lusty blood?
He speaks plain cannon fire, and smoke and bounce;
He gives the bastinado with his tongue:
Our ears are cudgell'd; not a word of his
But buffets better than a fist of France:
Zounds! I was never so bethump'd with words
Since I first call'd my brother's father dad.
Grandma called her mother "Mama", so Dad called her "Big Mama." That means if she hadn't died in 1939, we'd have called her "Great Big Mama."
She had deep-set eyes, which made her look scary in pictures as an old lady. She built her own hotel and ran it after the one she leased was burned down by a fired employee.
"These names grandmas assign themselves aren't universally accepted by the grandkids who inevitably coin their own terms. It does not please the grandmas."
Yes. That's discussed in the linked article: "The kids could have the last laugh, though. Often, grandparents wind up with some idiosyncratic or downright oddball name, based on what a small child can pronounce, or mispronounce. Acquaintances have shared a long list of uncommon names bestowed by the grands themselves: Atti, Lito (toddler for Abuelito), Bammy, Yo-yo, Dander, Dodo, on and on."
What's cute to make a baby say may not work so well as the child ages. Baby talk will probably be replaced, but by what?
I'm not a grandparent, but I've had the experience of being an aunt to babies. Told to call me "Aunt Ann," they're going to end up saying "Ann Ann."
My mother was blessed with several grandchildren. The eldest one - for reasons never clear - called her "Boppa" from the very beginning. She was stuck with that name for the rest of her life, at least from her grandchildren, all of whom now have children of their own.
Which is why I prefer to say I am old.
It's certainly better than the alternative.
Orwellian Newspeak creepeth in. I prefer Tennessee Williams' character name in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof: Big Daddy. But then, respect shown to white male Patriarchs is long gone.
My parents called my brother "The Beep" for some years because that's what our older sister's version of "Baby Brother." Thankfully, she could speak better when I turned up.
I love being called Dad. Especially "Daaad" with an eyeroll attached. To the author of the piece in the Times, I would say that letting American Culture dictate how you feel about something is, in general, a bad idea.
No wonder about these millennials. Amirite?
My parents fussed and begged for grandchildren for year, only for my mom to insist that she didn’t feel old enough to be “grandma” when the time came, so she goes by “Granna.” Whatever.
As for the article at the start - silly. My husband is a stay at home dad, but that doesn’t mean that the kids think he’s a mom with facial hair, any more then they think working makes me a dad in a skirt (how offensive would that use of the stereotype be?). We just don’t raise them to believe that one’s sex is so limiting.
I have informed all of kids them that on that hopefully very distant day when they have to give my eulogy, each of them should repeat as many of my jokes as they can recall.
It should make for an interesting service. I'm sorry I will miss it...
I'm Gi-Gi with my grandkids, and that was at the insistence of the oldest one, we didn't adopt it ourselves. It was long the lines of "This is Grandpa". "No... Gi-Gi."
Grandma is "Bubbie". Again, made up by them. No, we're not Jewish.
My oldest son, who has a speech disorder, gave my wife's mother and sister unique names they've used ever since. For my mother-in-law it is her most important badge of honor.
My parents were always Grandma and Grandpa. My wife's father and stepmother were also called Grandma and Grandpa.
To differentiate them, we prefixed one Grandpa and Grandma by where they lived and suffixed the other by their last name.
I find it odd to be called Uncle by my grown nieces and nephews.
Why would you let a child thing "mom" is a word to use for a dad? Ok, if you are a lesbian couple then it makes sense. But for the other 98% of us, that's just silly.
I'd be pretty insulted if my kids called me by my first name. By my count I'm about $700K into being a "dad" so unless they plan a LBO, I have the voting stock.
NB: I don't let my children's friends call me by my first name until they're 21 or in the military. Amusingly the military kids are very "Mr. XC" about the whole thing.
-XC
>>I find it odd to be called Uncle by my grown nieces and nephews.
Dad was the youngest of a large family, and in his 50's when I was born. I had a LOT of cousins who were much older and married with families when my sisters and I were still children. We called most of them "uncle" even though they were really cousins. So, I had two "Uncle" Jimmy's. One the son of the other.
I told my daughter to pick. Her husband's family usually did "Grandma Last Name". She didn't like that. My daughter grew up with a Grandma and a Nana. His mom was already Grandma to other kids, and my daughter's Nana was still alive at that point. Her favorite grandmother was the one in the movie "Crossing Delancey". While we aren't Jewish, she thought I was going to be a feisty little old lady like her so she named me after her. My daughter didn't know how to spell Bubbe, and she changed it to Bubbie. My grandson is now 12, and he calls me Bubs. That works for me. His little sister calls me her Fairy Grandmother. I live on a lake, and the kids spend most of the summer with us, "Bubs"/"Effgy", and "Popsy".
>>NB: I don't let my children's friends call me by my first name until they're 21 or in the military. Amusingly the military kids are very "Mr. XC" about the whole thing.
In the south, children often call adults by their first name, preceded by Mr. or Ms. Most all of my kids friend's called me "Mr. Dan".
But this was unthinkable to me and my sisters as children... we ALWAYS called addressed our friends parents as Mr/Mrs LastName...
I think there is also a local, ethnic component to the grandparent name. I grew up with Memee and PopPop. Memee is some PA German word, as I am from rural PA. I had never heard the term Nanna or Nonna (and my dad was Italian from Palermo, Scicily, mom is PA German - I can curse in multiple languages).
I am also the last of 4 kids - and born late in their life. My nieces and nephews are 4 years younger than me. So my mom was a grandma and had me at the same time. She went by Grandma to them because it was more "Modern". My mom was born in 1925, me in 1968, Nephew in 1972.
I took the kids to usual spots like parks and zoos, but we also went to places like Mommy and Me Yoga and baby swim lessons
Translation: I was scoping out the MILFs for 'play dates'.
Lotta humblebrag in that article. Oy.
My grandkids call me “Papa.” I’d prefer “Grandpa” like I called my grandfather but “Papa” (or is it “Poppa”?) is the thing these days.
My 93-year-old mother stills refers to her dad as”Pop.”
When I was learning to speak my mom baby sat a girl a year or so older than me. The girl called my parents by their names, so I learned to do the same. Mom would go to school, first and second grade at least and tell me teachers that I called my parents by their name and that I was not to be corrected.
I do not remember when I started calling mom "mom" but I do remember the first time I ever called dad "dad". I must have been about 8 and dad and I were goofing around or something and he walked down the hall toward the living room while I stood at the other end of the hall and I said, without thinking, "Hey dad!"
Then I paused, did I just call him "dad"? And he, without missing a beat, said "What?"
I don't remember what I said after that.
This is one of my fondest memories.
You hit it on the head in the last line - for boomers, everything has to be about them. As someone born on the tail end of the boomer generation, it is sometimes such a chore following that cohort through life.
@jehajm
Bingo!
Which is why I prefer to say I am old.
I tell my kids I'm from last century.
Our grandkids call me Chief and my wife, Nanny (sometimes they shorten it to Nann). They call their other grandparents, grandma and grandpa.
In my family - both sides - grandparents were called grandma and grandpa, but their last name was always included, except for our one step grandpa - his first name was included...as you would with aunts and uncles.
My mother is grandma and great grandma.
Yeesh. This is why, though I am in my early sixties, I do not identify as a “Boomer.”
I do remember how my mom “planned play dates” it was “Get out of the house, dinner’s at 6!”
The kids next door had, and I am not making this up, I wish I could, “Big Gramma” and “Little Gramma.” I never met either of them, so no comment on that.
"It is a common division of labor for most heterosexual couples: Moms do more" But not in total family labor, as time (diary) studies show. Women and beta men talk more about doing more, though. Not measured in studies, as far as I know.
"I quickly learned that the daytime world of child care, even in New York City, is populated almost exclusively by mothers, nannies and children...." There he goes again, belaboring female privilege.
"His 3-year-old daughter calls him "Mommy." And his 5-year-old son had called both parents “mama” until he was "steer[ed]" toward "papa" and took to calling his father "Mimi."" Say it ain't so, Kevin, boy. May I call you boy?
"As for my father, he was, for me, for his entire life and beyond, "Daddy." I never got the slightest clue whether he started that or perpetuated it or whether he liked it or not." Who effing cared, or cares? I'm with Daddy.
"Maybe that was because it was a time in American culture when fathers didn't muse openly about how they felt about relationships. It wasn't a big deal, prior to the feminization of the culture. We were busy building railroads and cars, clearing farms, putting up skyscrapers, inventing telegraph and telephone and radio and TV and computers, getting killed in war, you know, the usual.
"Boomers always think it's about Boomers, but this thing of women insisting they are not old is old old old." What's new is that now we get to hear about women's feelz, especially BB women's feelz, ad nauseam. Which gets old old old, not that it will stop anyone.
"I find it odd to be called Uncle by my grown nieces and nephews."
It's also odd to be called by your own personal name by someone whom you don't know well at all and who is fifty or more years younger and wearing pajamas or something just like it to school. That's why I encourage "aunt". The idea is we are related and I'll always love them and look after their good and want to know how they are but we aren't the same thing as they mean by "friend". And I think it's good to encourage people to realize that there can be relationships that aren't about total mind melding and hardly even appear on one's personal social media. Friends get unfriended. Twitter stock may crash. Facebook even may disappear - I think Facebook as we know it will go the way of the party-line telephone. Your aunt may be a Trump supporter. Your nephew may support gun control and socialism. But family is forever. It will even outlast calling Dad, Mom.
Lotta humblebrag in that article. Oy.
Nothing humble about it.
“Uncle Tim” is my favorite name outside of “Dad.”
I grew up with Grandma and Grandpa out on the farm and Nona and Bumpa in town. The family legend is that Nona was one of those who didn't want to be called Grandma because it made her feel old (believable because as late as her eighties, she was lying about her age). I told my daughter I was Grandpa and if the kids needed to tell their Grandpas apart it would be Grandpa (Last Name). I hate all this Grandpa Bill, Pastor Tim BS. We have last names and they should be used.
@Tim - I had three aunts named "Amy Ruth." There was Aunt Amy, Big Amy, and Big Ruth. They were all tiny (and very scary women). Oh, these were all women married to my grandfather's brothers - all married within the same year, all with the same last name. The adults called them "Amy," "Big Amy," and "Amy Ruth." Big Ruth was not going to let people out of short pants call er Big Ruth. It was very confusing and not convenient.
@DanTheMan - I'm down with "Mr X" instead of "Mr C." It's the "Hey, X" part I despise.
_XC
I'll just update this classic for you:
"Over the river and through the hoods
To Nana's house we go.
Google maps knows the way
To carry us Bae
To our old suburban home."
My daughter calls me Dad. My grandkids call me by my name. Cutesy grandpa names are silly.
Mommy and Me Yoga. Is it any wonder why so many toddlers commit suicide.
I guess grandmother does mean literally big mother.
Our third grandchild could not pronounce "Judy" so she became Gramma Chewy.
She love it, me too.
Oh yeah, good plan:
"I have informed all of kids them that on that hopefully very distant day when they have to give my eulogy, each of them should repeat as many of my jokes as they can recall.
It should make for an interesting service. I'm sorry I will miss it..."
Same here. But I added please tell tales of the foolish, funny,or weird things they remember about me. And LAUGH. My life IS funny, please remember it that way.
"Moms do more" - LOL!
I agree that the father being called 'Mommy' is unlikely or somewhat contrived. What is most likely is that the child was often with caregivers who would occasionally refer to 'your Mommy' as the person that said she wasn't allowed to have ice cream for lunch or as the person that was late picking her up. Which means he wasn't much of a stay-at-home 'dad'.
I was a stay at home dad. Some of my experiences can be found in the decaying remains of my old blog: http://www.autonomoussource.com/toddlers/
“Lotta humblebrag in that article. Oy.
Nothing humble about it.”
Not much to brag about, either. The most tiresome thing about these people is that they make a BFD about stuff that normal people do routinely and without either self-congratulation or self-examination. Your son calls you Mommy? How cute! How woke! Of course he probably calls the Guatemalan nanny mommy as well.
My eldest son calls me Daddy-O. Something he picked up from an ancient backissue of Mad Magazine. So, yeah, Boomer culture again.
Her mother, a mere 69 at the time, objected that she wasn’t old enough to be a grandma.
WTF? 69 for your first grandchild works out to having a kid at 35, who has a kid at 34. I would agree with 40 being awfully young to be a grandparent, though it happens fairly often. 50-60 seems quite reasonable. I want to be young enough to play with my grandkids.
I look at some my classmates and think: he or she really looks and acts old. What happened to them?
Tradition didn’t always seem a good enough reason....
Tradition is the reason to do things, until you are old enough to understand why those things are done. Nowadays, many people never reach that age.
The Supreme Court really fucked that one up.
I tried hard to have a father
But instead I had a dad
-Nirvana, Serve the Servants
I am "Gramma" (which is how small children say "Grandma") to seven and I imagine I always will be. This is traditional in Wisconsin. My counterpart is also Gramma. They add the last name if they need to distinguish.
I hope to be Nana and my husband hopes to be Pop-pop, but it's up to the kids. :)
In donor-conceived person discussion circles, often 'dad' means the one who raised you while 'father' means your biological father, the one who sold his sperm to your mother. I refer to mine as my 'biofather.'
My mom was known as Mezzie (short for Mary Elizabeth), which in the mouths of young nieces and nephews often became Aunt Messy.
A fellow officer on my ship in the 1980s was a grandfather at age 34 (I don't know how old his grandchild was). This must be more common in the developing world.
My one and only grandparent was called Gaga.
Who knew it would someday be glamorous.
The memories of my family outings are still a source of strength to me. I remember we’d all pile into the car – I forget what kind it was – and drive and drive. I’m not sure where we’d go, but I think there were some trees there. The smell of something was strong in the air as we played whatever sport we played. I remember a bigger, older guy we called "Dad". We’d eat some stuff, or not, and then I think we went home. I guess some things never leave you. -- Jack Handey
There was a guy on my ship, a kid from New Orleans who was very courtly and dignified. Everyone called him Gramps. He was low enough on the totem pole that we could get away with it.
I was 56 when I became a Grandmother. I called myself Granny. Baby Girl called me Grandma, and He-Man is Poppa, so our little one calls us Grandma and Poppa. I LOVE IT!
My mother is G.G. like Gigi. It's cute, but I don't know... I don't see me as a Gigi if I live long enough to be a Great Grandmother. Gran sounds nice. I'd answer to that, or just Grandma.
Now, her situation was quite different to mine. I was 20 when my youngest brother was born, and one of my younger sisters made my Mom a Grandmother just 3 yrs later.
She did not want to be called Grandma, or be one since she had a 3 year old of her own to raise.
My children are grown, and in relationships. Children for them and me becoming a Grandmother is life, so the name Grandma never bothered me or gave me pause.
Well, Blogger got that one and it couldn't be save.
I called my grandmothers Nana and my husband called his grandma. So we kept to those family lines in the names my son used.
My mother called her grandmother Meeno...as in "me no do that".
I don't believe that moms do more, they do different.
One of the most touching things I recently heard was Dana Carvey telling Jerry Seinfeld on the "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" that the most important moment of his life was when another human being called him "Dad" for the first time. Not all comedians are assholes.
I'm old too. Admitting it is relaxing. I am Pops to my three grandchildren (girls) and chose that name. The other one I considered was Grumpy. That was a joke with my kids because their friends growing up were intimidated by my serious and stern demeanor. I never objected to being called Dad, but, then, I didn't do the dark socks with sandals thing so had nothing to feel self-conscious about. I did and do tell purposefully bad jokes.
My wife is Mimi to our grandchildren. My grandparents, and those of my wife, had the usual Grand names. So did most of our friend's.
-sw
Video: Choosing The Best Grandma Name (Southern)
I would have preferred Grand-mere but settled for Grandma after firmly nixing Granny.
"My daughter calls me Dad. My grandkids call me by my name. Cutesy grandpa names are silly"
And make you feel old...
I can't wait to be called Grandpa.
"Grandude? G-dawg? Nonny? Boomers Name Themselves" (NYT)...
Partly, it’s a boomer thing. Tradition didn’t always seem a good enough reason....
And they wonder where that "die, boomer, die" meme comes from.
(Actually, they probably don't. They're too absorbed in still thinking that they're the center of the universe to notice.)
Which is why I prefer to say I am old.
Yeah, me too. It annoys the hell out of me when people rush to apologize for having implied by word or dead that one is not young. Want to smack the disrespectful whippersnappers with my umbrella.
Die, boomer, die. (Except for me and my also technically boomer significant others.)
My daughter, now 16, is the conferrer of nicknames. My "favorites" for her dad and me: Poo and Moo. Sigh.
She also calls us Pop-and-lock, Moomar, Mother Dear, Poppalopolis, Dayim, Mumsie, Mama Bear and Papa Bear, and of course our given names. We had no choice in any of this. (Publicly she generally sticks to Mom and Dad, except with very close friends.) Her brothers are Bubble and Bean (which thrills them both), among other things. With grandparents she's not quite so out of the box - Gammy and Gampy, mostly.
I was born in 1950 -- what I think is the height of the baby boom. The kids of the 60s like me can be proud of some things. Their resistance to aging is not one of them. My grandchildren call me Grampa. Nothing wrong with that, I say.
My grandson calls us "Grandpa and Grandma". We created an alter-ego as "GrandPa-Man", an ersatz superhero. Complete with dandy costume and my superpower - creating sonic waves from my hearing aids (they cause a feedback when I cup my hands over my ears).
Our son calls his maternal grandmother "Oba-chan" which in Japanese means "Sweet Old Woman". Oba = Old woman -chan is an intimate honorific only applicable to family. His grandfather (RIP) was "Oji-chan".
It's easier for toddlers to pronounce D's than M's, hence the first words are Dada. G_d has a sense of irony. Mom doesn't need a name because she and the kid are the same person in the kids mind.
Ignorance iB: "Her mother, a mere 69 at the time, objected that she wasn’t old enough to be a grandma."
WTF?
"Being a Boomer, I am in deep denial about my mortality, and will refuse to approach great awe-ful Death with anything resembling fortitude and equanimity. Instead, I'm going to cover my eyes and plug my ears and scream like a spoiled toddler, degrading myself and embarrassing everyone else in the process."
(I'm not predicting I'm going to be some great stoic hero as the Reaper closes in, but, geez, I think we can all manage not to lose it over the little stuff if we try.)
My first grandkid started calling me backpack because I took her everywhere in a backpack. Then one day her aunt (my daughter) tried to teach her to call me Grandpa and all she could manage was Dumbpa, which my daughter then repeated a hundred times to make it stick. The funny part of the story was she didn't fully realize that the first syllable was Dumb until she was 9-years old.
"Which is why I prefer to say I am old."
Maybe that's what I'll hear you say when you update your blog portrait....
In my family, the grandparents didn't decide what the grandchildren called them- my sisters, their mothers, did. So, the paternal grandparents are grandma and grandpa, and the maternal grandparents are mamaw and peppaw.
Methinks he doth protest too much.
Also, New York City is full of complainers and outlets for complaint.
I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but my oldest son got me a shirt that says, "World's greatest farter. I mean father." I rather like it.
"I think there is also a local, ethnic component to the grandparent name. I grew up with Memee and PopPop. Memee is some PA German word, as I am from rural PA."
It think it might be more Appalachian-ish. My family is from rural southwestern PA. Grandma was 100% german ancestry and from her we got a few terms such as "Frishtay?" meaning, do you understand (verstehe in German). Called her grandmom. But my grandfather's side of the family was Scots-Irish/English hillbilly stock. He was Pap-Pap, or Pap, and on that side of the family, grandmothers are called (shudder) Mee-maw.
I have been dubbed "NAUGHTY Grandpa". There are few higher accolades to which a man might aspire.
Our opposite numbers from central Pennsylvania go by mee maw and pop pop
We chose "Mimi" and "Pappy" when our daughter was ready to deliver our first. Now there are two, and the little girls delight in shooting, "MIMI! PAPPY! MIMI! PAPPY!" whenever we arrive. And it gives us a separate identity from the other grandparents, who are "Grammy and Grampy".
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