Althouse: "Mindfulness might be unhelpful for dealing with difficult assignments at work, but it may be exactly what is called for in other contexts."

June 15, 2018

"Mindfulness might be unhelpful for dealing with difficult assignments at work, but it may be exactly what is called for in other contexts."

"There is no denying that mindfulness can be beneficial, bringing about calm and acceptance. Once you’ve reached a peak level of acceptance, however, you’re not going to be motivated to work harder."

The last paragraph of "Hey Boss, You Don’t Want Your Employees to Meditate" (NYT) by the behavioral scientists Kathleen D. Vohs (of the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota) and Andrew C. Hafenbrack (of the Católica-Lisbon School of Business and Economics).

50 comments:

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Same with psychedelics. When you see the futility of the rat race, why work so hard?; 6/15/18, 6:51 AM
Ray - SoCal said...: Could it be what type of task matters?

For example working with people mindfulness may help to be more mindful? Or having the ability to focus. I see mindfulness as hurling to exercise your mind. And it can make the person son happier, as it can reduce worrying. A challenge with meditation is it can become navel gazing. Thanks biscehy budhism has guidelines on how you are supposed to live.

Mitivation is a huge issue, and I have noticed in my wife’s family, the super high achievers worry about they will fail, so they work even harder to succeed.; 6/15/18, 7:15 AM
Eleanor said...: It seems to me there's a movement afoot. It might be subtle at this point, but it's there. It's about getting people to be happy with less. Whether it's meditating instead of throwing yourself fully into working hard to succeed or being content in a tiny house, the message is you should be happy with less. Less space, a less satisfying job, and now the folks at Berkeley think we should give up having a family. If I read one more thread about how luxurious living in a packing crate can be, I think I'll puke.; 6/15/18, 7:29 AM
Triangle Man said...: @Eleanor

Interesting that you think that the movement is operating outside work because "do more with less" is exactly the movement that employers are embracing. Work harder for less (adjusted for inflation).; 6/15/18, 7:37 AM
Amadeus 48 said...: Back in the Sixties, there was a short story in the New Yorker about a guy who took up zen Bhuddism to improve his tennis game. His tennis didn't get any better, but he didn't care anymore.; 6/15/18, 7:42 AM
Anonymous said...: "...we found strong evidence that meditation is demotivating."

For some definition of "strong" and some currently fashionable pop definition of "meditation".

Neither the article or the abstract say how much time was devoted to "mindfulness training" - sounds like some sort of "quickie" course. Furthermore, "motivation" was measured by arbitrary tasks assigned by the experimenter. I assume any improvement in focus and serenity, even if a temporary mental state brought on by what is essentially just a quickie relaxation technique, could lead to a finer perception of the pointlessness of the exercise, and a detachment from wanting to please the experimenter (or the boss) by being a good little drone and completing a meaningless task.

The giveaway here is defining the purpose of "meditation" and "mindfulness" as nothing but achieving a state of serene "acceptance" and "non-judging". I imagine the current "meditation" faddishness in business does come from corporations wanting a certain kind of "acceptance" and "motivation" from their employees. In that sense it's no doubt true that faddish quickie "mindfulness" techniques aren't going to deliver.

Though I also suspect that any serious practice of meditation probably would demotivate any employees who find their jobs meaningless. The people at the highly-paid, highly-skilled, creative end of the employee spectrum don't need motivation enhancers.

Btw, there's nothing particularly "Buddhist" about meditation or mindfulness. Or hippy-dippy or inducing of passivity or fatalism.; 6/15/18, 7:43 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: I agree with ADAB's dismissal of study although I would have stopped when I read the words 'behavioral scientists'.

I used to be skeptical but interested in the work of 'behavioral scientists' until I started reading Danny Kahneman's book on the topic and got the feeling that the science he was describing in a chapter on priming must be BS. I looked it up and sure enough it was. I stopped reading the book at that point. If someone as expert and smart as Kahneman can't reliably distinguish the wheat from the chaff in that field there was very little chance that I would be able to. No doubt this means dismissing some well done studies along with all the crap but this is what living in a bad neighborhood gets you.; 6/15/18, 7:58 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: In my personal experience, when I have to concentrate for a long time on a particular task I find meditating beforehand can be helpful. Not always, and many tasks are intrinsically absorbing, but if I am anxious about the task then meditation helps. So my advice for employers would be to stick with the meditation. Anxiety seems to derail more careers than lack of motivation.; 6/15/18, 8:02 AM
Henry said...: What if your mindful employees realize that the work is meaningless or unethical?

One of the main branches of the eight-fold path taught by Buddha is "right livelihood":

A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

And what is wrong livelihood? Scheming, persuading, hinting, belittling, & pursuing gain with gain.

Modern buddhist practitioners emphasize less a list of proscribed occupations, and more a mindful evaluation of the work you are doing, its ethical component, and its effect on your own psyche.

Thich Nhat Hanh writes: Our vocation can nourish our understanding and compassion, or erode them. We should be awake [mindful] to the consequences, far and near, of the way we earn our living....profiting from others' superstitions is also not Right Livelihood.; 6/15/18, 8:03 AM
gilbar said...: ...a guy who took up zen Bhuddism to improve his tennis game. His tennis didn't get any better, but he didn't care anymore.

Robert Pirsig addresses This EXACT Thing in his book;
If you had peace of mind while having a broken motorcycle, you wouldn't fix it.; 6/15/18, 8:04 AM
tcrosse said...: Laborare est Orare.; 6/15/18, 8:11 AM
buwaya said...: As meditation
Work absorbs you in the zone
The Zen of Excel; 6/15/18, 8:14 AM
rhhardin said...: If you have a play for pay job you don't meditate.; 6/15/18, 8:21 AM
Fernandinande said...: I looked up the author before reading the article; she has some clear, minimal jargon papers with some interesting titles: "Bad is stronger than good", "The psychological consequences of money", but there was one she seems to have ignored: "Psychology as the science of self-reports and finger movements: Whatever happened to actual behavior?"

The only behavior change described in the article is what people said to the researchers; other actual measured behavior, namely the performance on the tasks, remained the same.

It's approximately 100% unlikely that the supposed decreased motivation would exactly offset the benefits of "mindfulness", resulting in no change in performance; far more likely is that "mindfulness" doesn't actually do anything except other than change what people say they're feeling.; 6/15/18, 8:22 AM
Fernandinande said...: Pick one: except or other than.; 6/15/18, 8:23 AM
Henry said...: Btw, there's nothing particularly "Buddhist" about meditation or mindfulness. Or hippy-dippy or inducing of passivity or fatalism.

All true, though Buddhism provides a particularly deep tradition. There are also many Buddhist teachers examining the Catholic mystical tradition and vice versa. Thomas Merton and D.T. Suzuki had more than one dialog.; 6/15/18, 8:29 AM
wild chicken said...: I'm so glad I never had a job prone to all these management fads.; 6/15/18, 8:38 AM
Daniel Jackson said...: Sorry; I have to cry Bullshit here; in fact, mega bullshit. The premise of the article betrays gradual student thinking and a complete lack of understanding of either the topic (let alone the purpose of "mindfulness") or the practice. Off the bat, the research suffers from what one might call the "world according to college sophomores" (the locus of SO many psych experiments then and now).

"A central technique of mindfulness meditation, after all, is to accept things as they are."

THIS statement is not just bullshit, but utter nonsense. If there is a purpose of being mindful, it is to remove extraneous distractions from the task at hand. To BE IN THE MOMENT is to focus on what is happening RIGHT NOW in front of you. Clear the mind, and focus.

For example, when I work with my table saw cutting a big piece of wood into thinner pieces of wood, I am very mindful of what the machine is telling me in the whirr of its blade: "I eat fingers! I LOVE to eat fingers." This is NOT the time to be pissed off at the political right or left; or my arguments with my children or my woman. It is the time to be mindful on the task at hand: the eye on the ball.

I have been engaged in my own photographic research of this topic with artisans in France, photographing them while they work, talking about their experiences (samples of these images are here: https://www.eyesandlight.com/commercial), and I am truly impressed with the zen like answers to my questions when these people look at the images I take. Bear in mind these people are artisans with many years of experience. All discuss how they "clear the mind of thoughts and enter the world of what they are doing."

More importantly, they embody what teachers like Maharishi Mahesh Yogi say consistently: practice means you do LESS and accomplish MORE. The worker, in other words, is more efficient expending less energy on the same task, which is what they are paid for. This effect is certainly confounded (in the statistical sense) with EXPERIENCE. I would suggest the authors reacquaint themselves with the Hawthorne studies of the 30's.

I have practiced meditation for 48 years and have a bit of experience with the art and what happens in the long term. That's just me; others have their experiences large and small. Be that as it may, mindfulness in general is about the ever present NOW; this in no way abnegates the need for planning, goal attainment, or the future. The so-called promised land of meditation, Samadhi, moksha, nirvana, is in the future and worrying about the future, as Doris Day has told us forever, is not in our hands. We can and do work to control what is in our power to control and all the mystical texts tell us that.

"And the very notion of motivation — striving to obtain a more desirable future — implies some degree of discontentment with the present, which seems at odds with a psychological exercise that instills equanimity and a sense of calm."

Bullshit; 6/15/18, 8:39 AM
Henry said...: @Daniel Jackson -- Beautiful photos.; 6/15/18, 8:48 AM
Wilbur said...: "clear the mind of thoughts and enter the world of what they are doing."

"You can't hit and think at the same time". Yogi Berra; 6/15/18, 8:48 AM
buwaya said...: mindfullness = buzzword
The new aromatherapy.
Or the "I'm more highly evolved than you" signal.; 6/15/18, 9:00 AM
Daniel Jackson said...: Thanks, Henry.; 6/15/18, 9:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Daniel Jackson:

"A central technique of mindfulness meditation, after all, is to accept things as they are."

THIS statement is not just bullshit, but utter nonsense.

The author's whole approach is bullshit (iow I agree with just about everything you say.) The above statement in itself isn't bullshit, but the author's conflation of a specific *technique* of meditation with the *purpose* of meditation makes it nonsense.

"Accepting things as they are", "without judging" is a *technique* practiced during a meditative session, sometimes in a session directed toward a specific problem, a means toward an end, in no way an end in itself. E.g., as a first step in training the mind to better deal with unavoidable illness or pain. In no frigging way is the idea to "accept" pain or illness in lieu of taking advantage of the means to end or ameliorate it, any more than the goal of meditation is to give up seeking solutions to problems.; 6/15/18, 9:15 AM
Carol said...: mindfullness = buzzword
The new aromatherapy.

Wait, I thought mindfulness predated aromatherapy by a few years?
Or was that meaning? Hillary wrote a book about it or something.

I was never sure what meaning meant.; 6/15/18, 9:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Daniel Jackson: Btw, are any of the people in your linked photographs among the Compagnons du Devoir et du Tour de France?; 6/15/18, 9:22 AM
stevew said...: "A central technique of mindfulness meditation, after all, is to accept things as they are."

Agree this is nonsense. If the idea expressed above is true, why do anything other than meditate?

-sw; 6/15/18, 9:33 AM
roesch/voltaire said...: Mindfulness is one of about five mental ptactices that Olympic athletes use to stay in the moment and achieve great things.obviosly they don’t accept less because of this practice.; 6/15/18, 9:43 AM
Howard said...: The trick is solving a difficult problem at work (or anywhere else) using mindfulness. This level of intense focus is referred to as Samadhi-State. Be the solution.; 6/15/18, 9:46 AM
Howard said...: I don't read "accept things as they are" as meaning don't try and change or fix things. I read it as "it is what it is", which is the first step in determining if you need to blow it up, repair it or put it in the rearview mirror.; 6/15/18, 9:50 AM
Howard said...: Being a white male, meditation would be cultural appropriation. Also, ADHD, so fuck that shit.; 6/15/18, 9:55 AM
Jaq said...: I admit to not having read it, on account of mindfulness, like every buzzword, became a buzzword because it was of great value in one area, but then became widespread and corrupted. But riffing on the headline and some comments, I will say that there are different kinds of jobs, some of which, like the sawyers or athletes mentioned above, are repetitious and susceptible to training, and others that involve solving novel problems which are highly complex. I am guessing that the writer is discussing the second type. IQ is also a double edged sword for the employer trying to exploit it in an employee, since the high IQ employee may decide that slacking and getting by is in his best interest, because he can still get by while slacking, and use his brain for other, more rewarding stuff.

Employers need workers who are sort of in a bind to a degree, and workers who can escape that bind are problematic. "From each according to his abilities" is what communism really finds impossible for these reasons.; 6/15/18, 10:08 AM
robother said...: You mean the central teaching of Buddhism isn't "every man for himself?"; 6/15/18, 10:12 AM
Nonapod said...: They were instructed by a professional meditation coach to focus on their breathing or mentally scan their bodies for physical sensations, being gently reminded throughout that there was no right or wrong way to do the exercise.

This study seems flawed. It seems like they grabbed a fair number of people who were novices at meditation.

I don't meditate, but I've tried meditating a few times in my life. From what I know of it, it is something you can get better at if you do it often. It seems to me that it would've been more informative to find a bunch of subjects who regularly meditate if your goal is to get people to achieve this state of "mindfulness" after mediation and compare that to a more normal state of mind.; 6/15/18, 10:13 AM
Jaq said...: For instance, how does one gather all of the often seemingly extraneous factors that may ultimately point to a solution while intensely focused? There is hand waving going on here, the assumption that another has gathered the necessary and complete set of factors from which to derive the solution. This is probably true for a problem assigned in engineering school, for example, but then in the real world solutions are released into the wild, and stuff nobody thought of is quickly revealed.; 6/15/18, 10:21 AM
robother said...: Having rejected mindfulness, the behaviorists should probably explore Prosperity Theology as a corporate profit maximizer. It certainly worked out for Oral Roberts and Joel Osteen.; 6/15/18, 10:23 AM
Fernandinande said...: People seem to be arguing around different definitions of "mindfulness" - the standard dictionary def'ns do include "acceptance".

Trying to find out if "mindfulness" can cause any measurable change in behavior or especially performance (on anything), I found a lot of "theoretical" and "results suggest" words without any actual results, except for ...

Evaluation of the Mindfulness-Acceptance-Commitment (MAC) Approach for Enhancing Athletic Performance
"...results indicated that the groups did not significantly differ [in athletic performance], however athletes in the MAC group demonstrated increased mindfulness skills in their ability to describe [stuff]..." (as in the NYT article under discussion, the only behavioral difference was what they said).

Gardner and Moore analyzed 104 empirical studies investigating the efficacy of PST ("Psychological skills training" = superset of mindfulness) ... Only one of these studies showed performance enhancement. ... Unfortunately, the study lacks a control group."

Apparently there aren't any actual performance increases, so they don't look for them; something to do with funding, I'm a-guessin' -

"Does Mindfulness Make for a Better Athlete?"
"However, the experiment did not look at actual, subsequent athletic performance, Dr. Haase said, so that possibility remains theoretical."

...and again...

To Train an Athlete, Add 12 Minutes of Meditation to the Daily Mix
"The researchers did not examine whether mental training improved players’ performance on the field,... Still, the results are promising, she [hoped]"; 6/15/18, 10:38 AM
Nonapod said...: tim in vermont said...
For instance, how does one gather all of the often seemingly extraneous factors that may ultimately point to a solution while intensely focused?

From what I understand about it (I'm not sure I totally buy it, mind you) achieving mindfulness is more about clearing your mind of all the excess noise, stuff that isn't germane, like thinking about how you gotta pick up your kid from soccer practice later or what you're gonna be doing this weekend, ect. Of course, yeah, it's possible that there's some stuff that doesn't seem germane to a possible solution that may turn out to actually be crucial.; 6/15/18, 10:43 AM
PM said...: Mindfulness is one more, in a long line, of great book-selling, lecture-filling words. There's a Mindfulness Diet.; 6/15/18, 10:46 AM
Fernandinande said...: Teller said...
Mindfulness is one more, in a long line, of great book-selling, lecture-filling words. There's a Mindfulness Diet.

Pet a mindful when you encounter one on the street.; 6/15/18, 10:49 AM
Jaq said...: Look at the movie The Big Short. A bunch of highly focused people cooked up the financial crisis, and a guy who let extraneous stuff enter his mind saw it coming. The real gift is to recognize when you are seeing something important. I would say that talking about shutting out soccer practice, etc, is just more hand waving. How do you pick what you are shutting out? That's mysticism, like Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.; 6/15/18, 10:54 AM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/15/18, 11:16 AM
traditionalguy said...: Mind me. But how does intentionally thinking about not thinking about stuff make you focus on a task? Loosey goosey chain reactions is the athletes zone that comes from years of practice coupled with a psychic sense of the opponent's thoughts. That ain't Buddha BS.; 6/15/18, 11:18 AM
Sprezzatura said...: Almost an NYT shutout re post material today.

One Wapo, for variety.

Seems like the hillbillies will need to see some Drudg-aposition or Rush stuff or the like.

IMHO.; 6/15/18, 11:42 AM
Darkisland said...: Triangle man

It is not about working harder, it is about eliminating unnecessary tasks. Or, as I tell my clients

"Be lazy - find an easier way."

More here www.changeover.com/lazy.html

As lazerous Long said "all progress is made by a lazy man looking for an easier way"

John Henry; 6/15/18, 12:05 PM
Daniel Jackson said...: @ADAB: all the people in my visual sociology of work have completed a three formation, an apprenticeship (or, are in the process of completing), and have registered in the Chambre des Metiers et Artisans. We might consider it to be equivalent of taking a two year course at a community college to earn a certificate of competence.

The people I have been photographing are regular artisans in their trade/craft who are extraordinarily vigilant to meet and exceed the requirements for what they are doing.

My interest, when I started, was to increase competency in MY craft as an artisan photographer, and to make portraits of real people doing real things. I may have been interested in documenting process; but, after a short time, I realized I was capturing their esprit and connection to what they were doing. Sort of a composition exercise in watching their eyes, their hands, and their bodies while they worked. I usually use an off camera strobe set at an angle and moved about them. What I noticed is that after several minutes, I was no longer "in the room" and they continued at the task at hand.

They were connected to their work, mindful of what they were doing and independent of the American taking images of their work.

Being Mindful of ones task is not a cultural thing; it is universal. Techniques may vary; but all traditions repeat the same thing: pay attention to what is in front of you and put aside the other bullshit until the task is done.

There are people who think, really think, that working with your hands is beneath dignity and that such activities are not worthy of educated, intellectual classes.

Sigh.; 6/15/18, 12:17 PM
Alex said...: I think having daily meditations instead of another pointless standup meeting could help coders.; 6/15/18, 1:06 PM
Alex said...: Funny how these guys:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/bf/ca/abbfca99324fbb704ade3b64565444cf.jpg

Didn't get any 'mediation' time. Our civilization is doomed.; 6/15/18, 1:07 PM
Darkisland said...: Sigh, indeed, Daniel.

We need more people who can actually do things and fewer with bullshit degrees who can't even work competently in a Burger King.

All they have to show for their so-called education is a worthless certificate and $100m in student loan debt.

And most of them blame President Trump for their situation.

Sad.

John Henry; 6/15/18, 1:09 PM
Daniel Jackson said...: John Henry; I worked as a coder at Battelle in Seattle for four years. Meditation REALLY helped especially during the card punch phase of the workflow. I actually enjoyed all those rows and columns of numbers (that's probably just me).; 6/16/18, 3:13 PM
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