May 26, 2018
"South Korean President Moon Jae-in and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un held a surprise meeting at the demilitarized zone Saturday aimed at keeping inter-Korean relations, and a possible summit between Mr. Kim and President Donald Trump, on track."
"South Korea’s presidential office announced the two-hour meeting after it had wrapped up, saying the two leaders met on the north side of the demilitarized zone and discussed how to successfully stage a summit between Messrs. Trump and Kim" (WSJ).
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270 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 270 of 270Michael K: "Carter was dealing with the 1974 Democrat landslide after the Nixon coup.
He sent Andrew Young, his UN ambassador who was not the sharpest tool in the shed, who reported that Khomeini, living in exile in France, was a "saint."
Does anyone here remember what that idiot Sec of State Andrew Young and the lefties said about Cuban Troops being put into Africa by Castro?
They told us cuban troops were a "stabilizing" influence there.
You know, I wonder if there was an Inga or two working in the Carter State Dept then, because that's just about 1 step removed from a dictators have democratic elections kind of a spiel!
“LOL
Nope.”
LOL
Yep
Boy, that Maduro sure ran a great race in the democratic contest in Venezuela, didn't he?
His victory comes "Inga approved".
I would imagine that provides great solace to all those voters in that Latin American "democratic paradise"....
It's pretty gross. I wonder where that image came from.
Kevin Bacon. Animal House
“But that was not enough for Hitler either. In February 1933, Hitler blamed a devastating Reichstag fire on the communists (its true cause remains a mystery) and convinced President Hindenburg to sign a decree suspending individual and civil liberties, a decree Hitler used to silence his political enemies with false arrests. Upon the death of Hindenburg in 1934, Hitler proceeded to purge the Brown Shirts (his storm troopers), the head of which, Ernst Roem, had began voicing opposition to the Nazi Party’s terror tactics. Hitler had Roem executed without trial, which encouraged the army and other reactionary forces within the country to urge Hitler to further consolidate his power by merging the presidency and the chancellorship. This would make Hitler commander of the army as well. A plebiscite vote was held on August 19. Intimidation, and fear of the communists, brought Hitler a 90 percent majority. He was now, for all intents and purposes, dictator.”
LOL at you Drago.
Now the lefties turning out by the thousands in NYC to praise Gorbachev while insulting Reagan in the 80's makes so much more sense now.
After all, Gorbachev clearly rose to power by democratic means, whereas Reagan was simply elected by horrible deplorables.
The March of the,left right clomps on this blog that mixes M13, Sisi,and which dictator is more pro American or praised more by the left or the right makes me realize why holding up the empire requires so much effort so much blood and money.
AMAZING!!
Inga didn't even bother to read her own blurb!!
Here's Inga's very own, self-provided blurb points of a "democracy":
1) President Hindenburg signed a decree suspending individual and civil liberties (you know, just like ANY democracy)
2) A decree Hitler used to silence his political enemies with false arrests (just like any democracy!)
3) Hitler proceeded to purge the Brown Shirts (his storm troopers), the head of which, Ernst Roem, had began voicing opposition to the Nazi Party’s terror tactics. (just like any democracy)
4) Hitler had Roem executed without trial (just like any democracy)
5) Which encouraged the army and other reactionary forces within the country to urge Hitler to further consolidate his power by merging the presidency and the chancellorship. (just like any democracy)
Remember, all those points were in Inga's very own link.
Her very own link.
LOL
When was the last time a truly democratic election was held in a free country and the leader won with 90% of the vote?
Spoiler: NEVER
Ever.
LOL
“A plebiscite vote was held on August 19. Intimidation, and fear of the communists, brought Hitler a 90 percent majority. He was now, for all intents and purposes, dictator.”
Laughing at you Drago.
Inga; "Laughing at you Drago."
And that last point which you are now doubling down on is the capstone point of why it was clear that Hitler did not win a democratic election.
A 90% win never happens in free societies.
Roesch, your problem is you come out of a poisoned, degenerate intellectual milieu.
And I mean that, seriously. I have seen it, heard it, lived it, got my kids through it. It disgusts me, it really does. You live in a horrible world.
Summary of Democratic Election Criteria for Inga:
1) Suspend individual and civil liberties
2) Arrest political enemies
3) Violent and murderous purges of parties
4) Employ terror tactics
4) Executions without trial
5) Work with military and business leaders to enact rules to establish a full consolidation of power
Behold: a leftest view of "democracy" and "democratic" elections.
Trump calls Putin to congratulate him on his “re-election”, just days after the poisoning in Great Britain. Putin won by 76.7 % and Trump calls to congratulate him on an “election”, with no mention of the poisoning and telling him he hopes to be meeting him soon.
makes me realize why holding up the empire requires so much effort so much blood and money.
Empires usually mean that the country running the Empire makes money from it.
That's why Colonialism in the late 19th century was popular.
Please explain how much money we made from our "Empire?"
And, in another question about Empires, why did the ancients say "All roads lead to Rome" and why did all the subjects want to go to Rome but when the USSR had its empire why no one wanted to go to Moscow ?
It seems to be a puzzle to the left. Or else they deny it.
The 19th century race for colonies was more fad than economics.
It became apparent, eventually, that this was a bad way to make money.
In France especially it came out in the open. France was losing money on all of it, there was no colony that paid for itself, not even Algeria or Tunisia.
Trump has praised Putin, Duterte, Erdogan, el-Sisi, and Jinping
Trump even said Kim Jong Un was “very honorable”.
Inga doesn't understand negotiation, maneuvering, salesmanship or the long game.
I want to be the one to sell her her next used car.
"NK is China."
No it's not.
Think it through.W hy would China want anything to do with the poorist asian country in asia? China is amassing its own economic empire NK is a drag on Chinas economic ambitions. Better for them, China, to have a unified Korea with the economic power to purchase from China. A unified non-nuclear Korea is a win for China. Xi knows enough to keep out of the way when events are conspiring to work in Chinas favor.
Buffer? What buffer? Korea isn't a buffer to anything.
Inga: "Trump calls Putin to congratulate him on his “re-election”"
http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/03/09/obama-congratulates-putin-for-election-win/
"President Obama called Russian President-elect and Prime Minister Putin to congratulate him on his recent victory in the Russian Presidential election," the White House said in a late Friday afternoon statement (read: news dump) about the Friday morning phone call between the two leaders.
"President Obama highlighted achievements in U.S.-Russia relations over the past three years with President Medvedev, including cooperation on Afghanistan, the conclusion and ratification of the START agreement, Russia’s recent invitation to join the World Trade Organization (WTO) and cooperation on Iran," the statement read. "President Obama and President-Elect Putin agreed that the successful reset in relations should be built upon during the coming years."
No wonder obama was caught massaging the inner thigh of Russian President Medvedev on camera while whispering sweet sweet promises of increased "flexibility".
Drago,
2012? Really? That's like, over 100 years ago.
although the Algerian incursion was more like a response to increasing Barbary piracy, but it took 17 years, to passify Algeria, de Tocqueville was sent their to make recommendations on policy about half way through, that's where he came up with his notes,
one of the problems, that fall of heavens zeroes on, is bani sadr, ex mossadecq supporter, was the one who was disseminating the black legend of the shah, to the posts Edward randall to le monde eric rouleau to abc's pierre salinger, he helped bring about the revolution, but ended up it's Kerensky, still in better circumstances to shapour baktiar, however, years later, he vouched for the 'October surprise' because he hadn't done enough damage in this life
Fred Drinkwater: "Drago, 2012? Really? That's like, over 100 years ago."
I know. I'm surprised they didn't catch Jefferson, Madison or Franklin in the picture.
I understand that actually most of those guys were crossing the famous "30 mile Gaza Bridge" that was reported upon in the august pages of Vox.
What is up with this insane cutting and pasting? Not the slightest effort to explicate, support, or give a hint as to the stunning significance of the cut and pasted material. Lazy. Passes for scholarship for The View audience.
@Rusty:
No it's not.
Think it through.W hy would China want anything to do with the poorist asian country in asia? China is amassing its own economic empire NK is a drag on Chinas economic ambitions. Better for them, China, to have a unified Korea with the economic power to purchase from China. A unified non-nuclear Korea is a win for China. Xi knows enough to keep out of the way when events are conspiring to work in Chinas favor.
Buffer? What buffer? Korea isn't a buffer to anything.
I agree with most of what you have written here. China would obviously prefer not to subsidize North Korea and put up with the headaches their provocations cause. I also agree that China would prefer a North Korea with a more modern economy. But I think you greatly underestimate the importance of North Korea to China as a "buffer state." A unified Korea would likely be ruled from Seoul and allied with America. Further, the buffer state gives them leverage in the region because Chinese cooperation is necessary in dealing with North Korea.
The US needs to come to terms with a rising China and find ways to integrate into the great power system. The containment strategy the US has been pursuing for the past 20 years is likely to lead to a more recalcitrant China. Chinese are very nationalistic people and are very sensitive to the period of European domination, which is seen as a great humiliation for China.
One component of accommodating China would be recognizing a sphere of influence in East Asia. The US can still balance this with commitments and integration with Japan. And if China proves that it cannot be a responsible steward of its sphere of influence, the US always has the option of adopting a more aggressive approach.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/world/asia/kim-summit-trump.html
The NYT's take on the Kim regime is pathetic, but if you can get by that, the suggestion that Kim may need "a deal" in order to survive may be valid. That North Korea is not in immediate danger of mass starvation is hardly a sufficient answer to those of his people asking what happened to all those promises of national glory.
Besides those stories about defectors with intestinal worms, etc. from eating weeds and grass in the fields sort of indicates North Korea maybe is facing mass starvation?
The NYT article talks about Kim building all these things, not entrepreneurs or members of his regime making money in real estate development. This is cargo cult stuff.
The 19th century race for colonies was more fad than economics.
It became apparent, eventually, that this was a bad way to make money.
It was but England and Spain had made quite a bit of money from theirs.
France and Germany were late to the party.
The US was under "White Man's Burden" delusions.
J. Farmer said ... "One component of accommodating China would be recognizing a sphere of influence in East Asia.
I agree, but we need an understanding with China that they will not be expansionist, which does not seem to be their tendency. The bigger concern is that they may try to destabilize countries that compete with their interests.
If we can move beyond the absurd partisan politics in DC and just accept that Trump is president for at least one term, maybe he can negotiate a deal with China
Michael K said...
It was but England and Spain had made quite a bit of money from theirs.
If we are going to call vast fortunes quite a bit of money then this is correct.
"... destabilize countries that compete with their interests.
This is not "expansionist?" Try telling that to the Philippines, Viet Nam, India, etc., not to mention Tibet!
I think China will take Eastern Russia next. Vast mostly empty land with tons of resources.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Trump is making a deal with China where Trump won't oppose just such an invasion if they deal with NK permanently?
So basically Trump would have facilitated the Chinese takeover of over half of Russia. Because RUSSIAN COLLUSION!
The sad and pathetic thing is, I bet even that wouldn't change the narrative. They'd probably be investigation Trump collusion with China the very next day, without ever admitting the claims he was colluding with Russia were ever obviously, hilariously wrong.
@Farmer,
The US needs to come to terms with a rising China and find ways to integrate into the great power system. The containment strategy the US has been pursuing for the past 20 years is likely to lead to a more recalcitrant China. Chinese are very nationalistic people and are very sensitive to the period of European domination, which is seen as a great humiliation for China.
No. It is Chinese who need to understand why they are surrounded by nations who fear them & have thus allied themselves with the US.
You are correct that the Chinese see European colonization as a great humiliation. But it is a great humiliation for them because the natural order of Heaven was broken & they were somehow dominated by their inferiors. They do not see it for what it was -- their government was so corrupt & incompetent that when the Emperor told the British to go fuck themselves when they made very reasonable requests on trading rights, the British & then the other powers said fuck you right back & had the moxie to make it stick.
The Chinese need to stop thinking they are God's gift & see themselves for the arrogant putzes they are. The history of the Chinese since the mid-19th C has been the history of one misstep after another until Deng Xiao Ping. They need to understand that their historical misfortunes were caused by primarily themselves.
I don't expect this to happen, & so I see the Chinese attempt to play foreign policy, a skill for which they have no national genius, as fraught with peril for all the players involved.
Who profits from our empire.? For starters the military, defense contractors, the oil companies to name a few. My poisonish milieu includes going to a Brewer game last night and tailgating with a doctor who establishes cancer treatment centers in South East Asia and a breast cancer researcher from New York who cheered for the Mets and the Brewers who eventually won on a walk. Both have extensive experience working and advising in foreign countries and share concerns about foreign policy and the effects of our empire.Neither one seems to think in the either or terms of right or left as so many on this board do, but more like why are resources limited and what are the alternatives.
Spain got a vast fortune? If you mean hyperinflation caused by the debasement of Spanish currency, well sure.
Drago said...
Inga: "More public defection"
Uh oh.
It appears Inga attempted to post something on her own without just cutting and pasting.
Hilarity ensues...
LMFAO. I almost needed Depends!
And what Achilles said. I don't give a flying fuck about esteem until there is respect.
@J Farmer
"And if China proves that it cannot be a responsible steward of its sphere of influence, the US always has the option of adopting a more aggressive approach."
With all respect to your analysis, you are kicking the can down the road again. Although my foreign relations expertise is limited to the opinions of others, and what facts I gather, I have always found dealing with possible problems sooner rather than later to be a good idea.
Make China be a "responsible steward of its sphere of influence" -now, while we still hold strong levers of influence/power.
"Who profits from our empire.?"
Mostly American citizens, but others within our "empire" prosper from the relationship also. Where are those doctors from? They need more?
"For starters the military, defense contractors, the oil companies to name a few"
The industrial military complex hex. It has been with us since before civilization. As long as there are competing interests it will remain as the tried and true method of advancing our interests. Kumbaya.
Michael K said...
It was but England and Spain had made quite a bit of money from theirs.
If we are going to call vast fortunes quite a bit of money then this is correct.
Thanks, ARM.
Spain spent it all on Phillip's obsession with conquering Protestant countries. The result was Spanish poverty.
Is that what you meant ?
England, at least, kept most of it home. Had Lord North and a few others not been so arrogant, they might have kept their most valuable colony, us.
Ben Franklin did NOT want to leave the English Empire. He was dismissed as a nullity by the courtiers around George.
For starters the military, defense contractors, the oil companies to name a few.
The myopia of the left. We cut the military after 1991 and Bill Clinton sold missile technology to China.
Defense contractors were devastated and that is why it will be hard to rebuild now that the Clinon/Obama legacy has come back to bite us.
Without the oil companies, especially the frackers who were dismissed by Obama( we can't drill our way out of this ), are the reason why we are not in worse shape.
What do you teach ? Not history or economics, anyway.
"What do you teach ? Not history or economics, anyway."
Given the current state of academia, I wouldn't be surprised actually.
A common sense revolution led by a madman.
Trump has shortened time it takes to fire an inefficient or misbehaving federal employee and forced union representatives to limit 'official time'(working for the unions at government expense) by 75%. He did this by EO.
pacwest,
I have been predicting just such a move by Trump. I have been writing that (many? all?) government unions will be decertified if Trump gets a second term.
The Russia bull shit investigation only strengthens Trump's resolve.
Dear Inga,
Late to the party, I was about to try to explain to you (as kindly as possible, because I hate to see you getting beaten in by numerous others) that your understanding of these issues is unfortunately superficial, and that you should talk less and listen more, make fewer statements and ask more questions, and be less wedded to the essentially superstitious belief system you have somehow acquired. In a word, you are ignorant.
But then we see the difference between ignorance and stupidity...
pacwest said...
@J Farmer
"And if China proves that it cannot be a responsible steward of its sphere of influence, the US always has the option of adopting a more aggressive approach."
Oh my fuck. The stupid, it burns. Yes, of course, it was so much easier to kick Hitler out of France and Russia after 1941, than it would have been to kick him out of the Sudetenland in 1938 (Czechoslovakia had more and better tanks than Germany) or the Rhineland in 1936. By all means, give China the First Island Chain. Hell, give 'em the Second Island Chain. What could go wrong!
So, Inga, you are not the dumbest bunny on the blog. Not by a looooong chalk.
J. Farmer is smart...like Robert McNamara.
Donald J. Trump
Hahahaha, Trump calls his own national security aid a phony source.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Failing @nytimes quotes “a senior White House official,” who doesn’t exist, as saying “even if the meeting were reinstated, holding it on June 12 would be impossible, given the lack of time and the amount of planning needed.” WRONG AGAIN! Use real people, not phony sources.
10:21 AM · May 26, 2018
Trump tweet. LOL. He doesn’t seem to know that the source that was quoted was a White House official speaking in a briefing attended by numerous news outlets. They all heard it.
“I mean, every reporter on the call knows who this official was, and this official exists,” Mike Warren, a senior writer for the conservative Weekly Standard wrote on Twitter. “And we all heard the official say it.”
“Within hours, a journalist found audio of the exact moment that a real person, who actually very much does exist, said exactly what the New York Times reported they had said.” The official’s name is Matt Pottinger and he said exactly what was reported.
“It is not clear whether the president was simply unaware of the actions of his own senior staff or if he knowingly ignored the truth.”
Bad Lt.
Farmer is pretty damn intelligent. Maybe it’s you who are having issues understanding him? I don’t agree with the majority of what he says, but he’s no dummy. And thanks for all your brilliant insights.
And Trump is like really really smart...ya know?
"Kim Jong Un looking like the adult"
The adult who starves people to death.
“The adult who starves people to death.”
Indeed. Just because he is behaving more maturely in this instance than Trump doesn’t make him any less the despotic dictator.
"Just because he is behaving more maturely in this instance than Trump"
You have no idea how any of this really works, do you?
BL, It is a waste of time to try to explain anything to Inga. But be my guest if you have time to waste.
Farmer is sort of a Pat Buchanan conservative but very very opinionated.
Lots of orders to go find the facts he argues but no links.
Too much work to debate.
“You have no idea how any of this really works, do you?”
Neither do you or for that matter anyone opining on this thread. We are in unchartered waters with Trump and Kim.
Why can’t Trump just hurry up and fail like Obama?
"We are in unchartered waters with Trump and Kim."
Yes. The status quo has been broken. Necessarily to my mind.
“Neither do you or for that matter anyone opining on this thread. We are in unchartered waters with Trump and Kim.”
It’s this kind of simple-minded shit I find most amazing here. Yeah, no history, no strategizing, no expertise, no agendas, no intelligence, no diplomacy. The Shit Just Happens theory of history. Because Trump!
“Yeah, no history, no strategizing, no expertise, no agendas, no intelligence, no diplomacy. The Shit Just Happens theory of history. Because Trump!”
Trump has proven that he is unreliable, so yes. In the past, those norms were a given, times have changed under Trump. Isn’t that what you wanted? Trump thinks he’s deal making, except this isn’t New York real estate. If you trust him to know what he’s doing, then you’re an idiot.
By the end of the 19th century the riches to be found in a few colonies were gone, or in most cases, changes in the economies of the home nations and the rest of the world, especially the ubiquity of trade, made them much less valuable.
In the case of Spain, the only paying colonies were Peru and Mexico and Cuba, mainly Peru because of the silver mines of Potosi, which were in fact nearly exhausted by the time of the Bolivarian revolutions, a very underrated cause of the fall of the Spanish empire. It all rested on that silver, no silver no empire. The rest of the empire was a dead loss, or at least simply infrastructure for the means to get the silver home.
The popularization of tropical commodities, the beginnings of the global consumer culture, made sugar islands very important, and Spain had Cuba, the greatest of them. Cuba was also extra-valuable by the end of the 19th century as it drew US investment as a source of consumer products for the US market, tobacco, cigars, rum as well as sugar. Sugar and proximity to the worlds most dynamic economy made Cuba worth keeping, though it certainly wasn't in the category of seventeenth-century Peru. The rest of its remaining empire though was still a dead loss.
Other empires were in the same boat. The Netherlands ended up owning a huge swathe of SouthEast Asia, but paid for it all with petroleum, the new hot item, from just a few bits of the Netherlands East Indies. The remainder was a picturesque place to spend money, not make it.
The changes in world trade also killed any special value of colonies as sources of commodities. Since there was free trade guaranteed by the Royal Navy, sources of everything diversified, and could be carried by anyone's merchant shipping. A lot of places could supply sugar or tea or coffee or spices or palm oil. And, eventually, petroleum also.
And the same too for their value as captive markets for home-nation manufactures. This was an early cause for English-Spanish conflict, as the English wanted to break into Spanish captive markets, and pushed free trade. Eventually the English won. And thereby also lost their own captive markets, to the US and Germany and Japan.
The English had manufactures which made colonies pay but they misjudged the American colonies.
Right up to the Civil War, they thought the American colonies were mostly a source of raw materials. Canada was with hides and furs.
In the past, those norms were a given, times have changed under Trump. Isn’t that what you wanted?
Yes, exactly. We had gotten tired of managing decline by Obama and profiteering by the Clinton Crime Family.
It is just amazing to me that Trump was able to do it and that he is still making serious progress dragging the progs with him as a dead weight.
I think the determining factor will be the midterms. As Insty said, "All the Democrats had to do was not look crazy for 6 months and they can't even do that."
Inga, you are useful indicator of the left's mind set and, as such, you are very reassuring.
If Kim was behaving more adult, he should have sent representatives to the meeting. He chose not to. Showing up is 80% of life.
I don’t agree with the majority of what he says, but he’s no dummy.
Inga, do you know who McNamara was?
Inga said...
“A plebiscite vote was held on August 19. Intimidation, and fear of the communists, brought Hitler a 90 percent majority. He was now, for all intents and purposes, dictator.”
“Laughing at you Drago.“
It is amazing that Inga can remember to breath.
@Bad Lieutenant:
Oh my fuck. The stupid, it burns. Yes, of course, it was so much easier to kick Hitler out of France and Russia after 1941, than it would have been to kick him out of the Sudetenland in 1938 (Czechoslovakia had more and better tanks than Germany) or the Rhineland in 1936. By all means, give China the First Island Chain. Hell, give 'em the Second Island Chain. What could go wrong!
Never mind the numerous ways that China today is nothing like the Germany of the 1930s. Also, a "more aggressive approach" does not meant a straight up invasion, which would be very costly for China and unlikely lead to any benefit. Also, the US has been pursuing a containment strategy for over 20 years. Has it been successful in curbing China's ambitions in the region? Also, imagine that China invaded Vietnam tomorrow, what would we do about it? Nuclear weapons make a direct confrontation between China and the US extremely unlikely.
Everybody forgets what an awful president Carter was, having been overshadowed (or should it be undershadowed) by the idiot savant Obama.
Carter’s naive decision to cut the legs out from the Shah unleashed the Middle East dung heap we have today, and cost literally millions of lives.
But he’s a saint to many, including those who weren’t alive then who only know him as “our most honest” president, rather than the stupendous incompetent he actually was.
Smug: "Has it been successful in curbing China's ambitions in the region?"
Compared to what? Where would unfettered China be with respect to controlling shipping lanes?
If we are arguing alt-history then Smug can Smugly assert, as is Smug's want.
wbfjrr2 said...
As somebody with a mere one degree of separation from Carter, I can attest he was an historically conceited bastard. He was a real shit to work with. Carter was a sanctimonious prick of the first order. Anybody with experience around Carter knew he would be a terrible failure as a president.
Despite the chants of the Democrats’ journalistic cheerleaders, the GOP has vaulted into a 6.2 percent lead in Reuters’ generic congressional ballot. That’s up from a 15-point deficit in early 2018. Also, CBS News finds that 68 percent of Americans consider President Donald J. Trump “somewhat” to “a great deal” responsible for the buoyant economy.
Oh man! More Stormy! Moar Stormeee!
NRO has a nice piece on it today.
Does anybody else notice how NR is creeping into Trump's bed ?
J.Farmer said...
“The US needs to come to terms with a rising China and find ways to integrate into the great power system. The containment strategy the US has been pursuing for the past 20 years is likely to lead to a more recalcitrant China.“
I remember Carter taking the exact same policy with the Soviets.
When you know so much basic history is tough.
Nuclear weapons make a direct confrontation between China and the US extremely unlikely.
That's exactly what McArthur thought.
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