"The answer: Often, they don’t. In Trump Country, people have learned to take a wait-and-see approach to the president’s extreme and categorical statements... I believe this explains the low-key response so far to the threat of a trade war with China among the farmers who stand to lose the most.... This distinction between the president’s words and his deeds might seem to cut against the Midwestern mythos of straight-talking folks who say what they mean and mean what they say. But there is another kind of mythical Midwesterner, the sort that Meredith Willson celebrated in 'The Music Man,' whose flinty exteriors cloak a soft spot for fast-talking flim-flammers. Trump entertains them and, besides, they never really expected a marching band."
Writes David Von Drehle in "Folks in the Midwest have Trump all figured out" (WaPo). I guess David Von Drehle has "folks" in the Midwest all figured out. He seems to live in the Midwest. Me too, but only on the island of Madison, so I know basically nothing about the Midwest Midwest, except from the viewpoint of people who are horrified to be surrounded by it. And last I looked "Music Man" was a Broadway musical, but it was written by a man who grew up in Iowa (albeit more than 100 years ago).
That said, I have something of the midwestern attitude toward Trump that Von Drehle described. Settle down, give the man a chance. See what he actually does. And, good lord, isn't he entertaining! Let's be kind to our guest, even if he's rough and weird.
And I can't help connecting this to the previous post, the notion that the whole truth must be told at a slant. By the way, I have always seen the feminine in Donald Trump.
The funny thing is, Trump seems to be delivering clear speech and stating the harsh truth straight on. That flummoxes some people when much of what he says turns out to be wrong.
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464 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 464 of 464No record heat anywhere in the world today. Just sayin'
That a single data point has no correlation to the average of an immense number of them? Yes, we already knew you didn't understand the distinction.
No record rainfall today on earth. Let that sink in !
Law cannot be said to exist without an enforcement mechanism. The United States has law because it can be enforced.
TTR thinks there is international law.
Tell me then, TTR, what the enforcement mechanism for international law is.
This is disingenuous. You know you think that law enforcement officials should be killed if they come to take your gun so clearly you do not believe that enforcement should be what legitimizes law, either.
Incredible that we live in a society where cops regularly have to gun down an arrested citizen whose danger/(weapons status) is (claimed to be) unknown while you say that you should be able to gun down a cop enforcing an order (on psychiatric warrant or whatever the right-wing is at least agreeing to consider) to take away your gun. Maybe someday you'll either put two and two together or at least agree that cops shouldn't just shoot anyone they arrest. But I doubt it. I think you believe that might makes right.
I will agree to follow a model if anybody can show me one that can be filled with historical data up until ten years ago that will then produce the last ten years of known data.
If the model cannot predict the past, I will ignore its predictions of the future.
No record rainfall today on earth. Let that sink in !
So Jeff, is Mr. "sink in" being facetious? The guy you agree with doesn't seem to understand the difference between the predictive power of a single data point and many. Are you seriously holding yourself out to be his hero of the short memory sciences? If it happened today, it's true. If it didn't, it stops being true! (But just for today).
This ADHD-model of social policy sure seems intriguing! Tell me more about it, please.
TTR,
None of what you wrote was responsive, logical or relevant. But you wrote a lot of it. So there is that.
Shorter right-wing epistemology: Unless everything is known and 100% predictable, then we might as well know nothing.
It's theological certainty as a substitute for the greater power of imperfect (but at least real) knowledge.
@FullMoon,
The Federal Reserve publishes data back to January 3, 2000, on a release called the H.10. Looking at that table, it says that on Jan 3, 2000, one dollar cost 0.6498 Bolivars. The latest number is, as you say, nearly 50,000 Bolivar to the dollar. However, that's just the official rate. The black market rate is at least six times higher, according to Wikipedia. Not exactly an inflation hedge, is it?
I don't know when the Bolivar was introduced or at what exchange rate. I could look on Wikipedia and maybe find it, but maybe not.... Ahh, it seems the bolivar was originally (in 1879) defined as 4.5 grams of silver. Later, in 1934, the exchange rate was fixed at 3.914 bolivar to the dollar. On January 1 of 2008, the bolivar was renamed as the bolivar fuerte with one bolivar fuerte equal to 1000 of the old bolivar. The exchange rate figures that the Fed uses, however, still refer to the old bolivar.
In any case, just while I was typing this in, the bolivar probably dropped another percent or two.
I don't know what "models" you're looking at and I frankly don't care.
And that is why you never learn anything new.
Bury your head in the sand.
Put your fingers in your ears.
You claimed overpopulation would destroy the earth by the year 2000. Didn't happen and Global Warming will or will not be affected by mankind. Either way, we adapt. Always have, always will
Well, it wasn't responsive/logical/relevent to your own whimsically unpredictable level of understanding. Nor was there all that much of it. But I understand that, for the right-wing, claiming to be incapable of understanding something is thought to be a persuasive argument for how wrong everyone else must be.
Someone could write a single sentence and I have no doubt that you'll claim not to understand it - as long as that denial helps your case.
You claimed overpopulation would destroy the earth by the year 2000.
I never said that. I never even posted here before 2004 or so.
Didn't happen and Global Warming will or will not be affected by mankind.
Because you're drawing a link between different things as a substitute for understanding either.
Either way, we adapt. Always have, always will.
Some will. Many won't. And there will be a huge price. Always is.
And that is why you never learn anything new.
Bury your head in the sand.
Save this bullshit talk for when you have something intelligent to say. Ask your friend Jeff if he agrees with your whole "two days that sun shines means weather just does what it wants" model.
In 1934 the bolivar was worth about a U.S. quarter. Thanks for that.
Doesn't seem to have held up too well.
That is communism, I guess. Toothless a fan of communism, and climate change. Says a lot.
TTR,
Show me a model that can predict the known past. That is an easy request. If you can show one that can predict the known past I will consider future predictions more likely to be correct.
Surely a model exists that predicts the known values and you are incredibly well informed so this should be easy.
I don't even know what Birkel's saying or asking but he did imply a number of times that as long as gun control will lead to murders of law enforcement officials then he's for it and encourages it so I'm certain he's not honest enough to have a conversation with about anything.
Sometimes I feel I am more informed when reading comments.
When reading Toothless, I feel more intelligent, more rational, more sane, and more attractive. Also, a sense of peace and well being encompasses me.
That is communism, I guess. Toothless a fan of communism, and climate change. Says a lot.
Lol. Am I now, trade warrior? Hopefully it says as much as "two days of Bay area cloud, then rain means there is no such thing as climate." LOL!
@TTR,
The precautionary principle is a recipe for paralysis. I can imagine all sorts of disasters from any action. Should I therefore do nothing? Isn't that also a decision?
Let me put this in another context. Pascal's Wager says that you might as well convert to Christianity, since if it's wrong, all you're out is a few misguided prayers and the loss of a few Sunday mornings to worship, while if it's right you thereby avoid the eternal flames of Hell.
Now that's a bogus argument because I could substitute any religion I want in there (e.g., the Flying Spaghetti Monster) for Christianity and make exactly the same argument. Without some additional reason to believe the religion is true, Pascal's Wager is not the least bit convincing.
The precautionary principle you are advocating is the same.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
I don't even know what Birkel's saying or asking but he did imply a number of times that as long as gun control will lead to murders of law enforcement officials then he's for it and encourages it so I'm certain he's not honest enough to have a conversation with about anything.
Typically stupid lie in a pathetic and transparent attempt to get a commenter to deny the accusation.
Been playing the same tune for a decade. Noting new in it's bag of tricks. YAWN.
When reading Toothless, I feel more intelligent, more rational, more sane, and more attractive. Also, a sense of peace and well being encompasses me.
Your need to feel "intelligent, rational, sane and attractive" must be quite a desperate one. LOL!!!!
@Full Moon,
It's worse than that. The bolivar was worth about $1.50 as recently as 2000.
Lol. Am I now, trade warrior? Hopefully it says as much as "two days of Bay area cloud, then rain means there is no such thing as climate." LOL!
Not exactly a denial. I know you are communist because other reasonable commenters have said it so it must be true.
TTR,
I am asking you, oh wise one, to show me a climate model that can use inputs of past historical data (up to, say, 2005) to produce predictions that match what has happened (since 2005).
If you can show me that model, I will be more apt to believe its predictions of the future.
Find the quote then and ask Birkel if that's not the meaning behind what he wrote.
For someone who bookmarks thousands of comments pages that shouldn't be hard for someone like you. But you hate reality and only care for facts that advance your own position.
Jeff said...
@Full Moon,
It's worse than that. The bolivar was worth about $1.50 as recently as 2000.
4/8/18, 2:49 PM
Venezuela currency may be worse than Zimbabwe.
You don't need a "model" when referring to several thousands of years of climate data.
Other than that, there is no need to discuss anything with a perpetual goalpost shifter like "Prove it to ME, PERSONALLY" Birkel. "If I don't believe it it's not true!"
Lol.
Yep, no need to discuss anything with anyone who so personalizes objective reality.
No irony from climate hysteric
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Find the quote then and ask Birkel if that's not the meaning behind what he wrote.
For someone who bookmarks thousands of comments pages that shouldn't be hard for someone like you. But you hate reality and only care for facts that advance your own position.
4/8/18, 2:50 PM
Not exactly a denial. I know you are communist because other reasonable commenters have said it so it must be true.
Well, some people think I wouldn't mind seeing them in a gulag but I wouldn't do it for a perceived national economic benefit.
But it's good that those who play the victimhood card know just how annoying they are.
Well, that's what happens you stick your head into other people's business, Moon. I know what he said; you apparently don't. So it's your problem, not mine. If you can't find the quote that proves what I said is not a "lie," then you can presume your buddy birkel to be as innocent as you want. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But you're still wrong and I'm not doing your homework for you, lazy boy!
You made the accusation. Back it up.
Loser.
I say you are a communist. Prove me wrong.
Back to climate change.
No matter what happens, people adapt. And as to the earlier point about leftists not believing, proof is leftists are not only staying near the coasts, they are moving to the coast and driving out he middle class.
The irony of someone denouncing communism and false accusations while demanding that the burden of proof against his own accusations lies with someone else. You can't make this shit up, people.
This is called "irresponsible."
How much are you mooching off that wife?
I'm about to head out. Your illogic bores the hell out of me and is a sign of mental illness.
TTR,
A model that inputs those thousands of years of data until 2005 should easily predict what we know to have happened since 2005.
Find that model, oh wise one.
The irony of someone denouncing communism and false accusations while demanding that the burden of proof against his own accusations lies with someone else. You can't make this shit up, people.
This is called "irresponsible."
Exactly what you wanted me to do. Prove something that didn't happen.You were just too stupid to see it.
Again with the irony, lol!
.....a sign of mental illness......
Back to climate change.
No matter what happens, people adapt.
True. This occurred during the Toba event. Good point, Moonie!
Toba wiped out the human population to 10,000 or less surviving individuals but the point remains! The survivors adapted!
Countless other examples like this... where to begin... oh I know...
Cholera! Killed millions but the survivors adapted!
Plague! That too! Killed millions. The survivors adapted!
It's a great model. Let's continue with this, shall we...
Terrorism! Kills quite a great number. But the survivors adapt.
Urban settlement led to plague and greater population density prior to sewage improvements led to cholera but the survivors adapted! All those who were killed were inferior! Bad people!
Moon's social darwinism is cute. Now if he could just admit the costs that come with it.
Exactly what you wanted me to do. Prove something that didn't happen.You were just too stupid to see it.
Because YOU were the one that made the accusation. Unless of course calling someone a liar is just what people do to each other where you're from.
TTR,
Did you find the climate model that can predict the past?
Because YOU were the one that made the accusation. Unless of course calling someone a liar is just what people do to each other where you're from.
4/8/18, 3:08 PM
You said you were leaving. Another lie. You lie about stuff all the time.You can't help it.
Yawn.
Birkel's kangaroo court of personal sentiment continues as if others cared for what he finds to be true or not.
You said you were leaving. Another lie. You lie about stuff all the time.You can't help it.
Well golly gee what do you know.. you changed my mind! I was going to leave but then I realized how interesting you were starting to become. And now I can't help myself. Dammit why do you have to do that to me, Moonie! Can't you be uninteresting like usual?
Yeah, so? Without these things, people would suffer from overpopulation, your other bullshit concern. Or, are we supposed to live forever? Nature controls population with occasional disaster, the way God intended, duh!
True. This occurred during the Toba event. Good point, Moonie!
Toba wiped out the human population to 10,000 or less surviving individuals but the point remains! The survivors adapted!
Countless other examples like this... where to begin... oh I know...
Cholera! Killed millions but the survivors adapted!
Plague! That too! Killed millions. The survivors adapted!
It's a great model. Let's continue with this, shall we...
Terrorism! Kills quite a great number. But the survivors adapt.
Urban settlement led to plague and greater population density prior to sewage improvements led to cholera but the survivors adapted! All those who were killed were inferior! Bad people!
Moon's social darwinism is cute. Now if he could just admit the costs that come with it.
Toothless says
All those who were killed were inferior! Bad people!
That may be your belief but personally I am certain many decent people also died. Of course you care for no one but yourself, as evidenced frequently in your psychotic rants.
Nature controls population with occasional disaster, the way God intended, duh!
So it's settled then! Moon thinks AGW is good in the same way that he says the plague and cholera were good! Glad to know, Moon! Tell everyone about this worldview of yours!
Anyway, it doesn't matter if you think they're good or "God intended" or whatever. You said that people "adapt," but you didn't tell everyone that you meant, "everyone other than the vast majority who DIE adapt!"
Lol! It's good to encourage you to say what you mean, Moon. Glad to help!
Well golly gee what do you know.. you changed my mind! I was going to leave but then I realized how interesting you were starting to become. And now I can't help myself. Dammit why do you have to do that to me, Moonie! Can't you be uninteresting like usual?
4/8/18, 3:13 PM
Another lie. Fact is you need to have the last word, no matter how stupid it may be. I know this and use it against you.
Now, the dilemma, leave and prove me wrong, or reply with another idiocy to try and annoy me.
Good Luck !
Haha! AGW, which is a lie, is going to kill the vast majority of the population, like the plague, or cholera !
Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Nature controls population with occasional disaster, the way God intended, duh!
So it's settled then! Moon thinks AGW is good in the same way that he says the plague and cholera were good! Glad to know, Moon! Tell everyone about this worldview of yours!
Anyway, it doesn't matter if you think they're good or "God intended" or whatever. You said that people "adapt," but you didn't tell everyone that you meant, "everyone other than the vast majority who DIE adapt!"
Lol! It's good to encourage you to say what you mean, Moon. Glad to help!
4/8/18, 3:18 PM
Good, I drove the idiot off the thread. He will be back though because he has a pathological need to get the last word.
Oh Mr. Moonie. How could I ever hope to think of myself as intelligent unless I somehow were to convince you to agree to think of me as intelligent? Your opinion means so very much to me!
Anyway, that the last word is an honest one is more important than who gets it in. But I'm more than happy to annoy if you think it's about nothing more than my pathological needs.
Oh, Moonie. You really move me. You move me Moonie.
Your my best boyfriend ever!
There, now prove that you don't need to get in the last word, you sexy beast!
Told ya so, LOL!
So Toothless,
Are you going to give us any examples of predictions that the IPCC got right? Or even approximately right?
John Henry
Blogger FullMoon said...
I say you[ttr} are a communist. Prove me wrong.
More a fascist/national socialist/progressive, I would say.
Based on xer postings here and my reading of fascist, national socialist and progressive ideology.
John Henry
John Henry
I'd say many of the people in the midwest are waiting to hear concrete policy proposals and positions from the democrats they don't find offensive or bizarre. The more time they wait for the "Great Pumpkin" to come out of hiding to put Trump under arrest for the less time they have to sway voters.
The "climate" "scientists" do not have a model that can reproduce known data.
TTR flails dramatically because TTR knows my challenge cannot be answered.
Sometimes I feel I am more informed when reading comments.
Not when Ritmo shits all over a thread.
Let's decide who won this thread. I'll stake my own claim on my being called evil, a dildo and an underwater basket weaver by Toothless in a single post. My claim is for efficiency and style points.
Obviously, there are some who piled up much larger point totals than mine by fighting a full 453 rounds.
The loser of this intellectual boxing match, by unanimous decision, is the aptly named "Toothless" who was fighting above his weight class.
Jeff said...
Birkel, you and I are both immensely better off than our great-great grandparents were. We have electricity, hot and cold running water, antibiotics, internal combustion engines, computers, nuclear power plants and Roku. Neither one of us invented any of these things.
You didn't invent those things. You bought them.
From people who have licenses to produce them.
They got those licenses from the people who developed them or purchased the intellectual property from the people who developed them.
There have been several times where I will source equipment and request bids. I have had on several occasions a Chinese company say "This is the model we make for XXX company, and we have this model that we make for YYY company."
I don't want to live in a world that treats others property like that. That is not how free markets and capitalism raised millions of people out of poverty. Japan and Europe and Australia and South Korea are most of the largest economies on the planet and they all play well together with each other on IP issues.
There is one outlier that steals and cheats. It is time they were treated like the outlier they are.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Well golly gee what do you know.. you changed my mind! I was going to leave but then I realized how interesting you were starting to become. And now I can't help myself. Dammit why do you have to do that to me, Moonie! Can't you be uninteresting like usual?
That's nice. Now go drool in the corner and gibber like an idiot.
Please tell everyone how many things your religion of global warming has correctly predicted over the last 20 years. You know like snow never happening again in England. Glaciers gone on Everest. Antarctica disappearing. Warmists getting caught repeatedly lying and falsifying data.
Oh I apologize about the last one. I forgot lying and falsifying data was the new scientific method now. But it is easy to predict.
Boy, not only did I miss nothing last night, I missed nothing today.
Ritmo has a way of doing that.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-22/trump-resort-in-ireland-will-build-seawalls-to-protect-against-climate-change
PRESIDENT Donald Trump will finally get the wall he's after. However, it won't be along the U.S.-Mexico border. An Irish council on Thursday granted approval for a wall to be built around part of Trump's golf course in Doonbeg, Ireland to protect it from water erosion, The New York Times reported.
Trump International Golf Links & Hotel Ireland previously applied to the Clare County Council for a continuous 1.7-mile long wall, but withdrew the application last year. Now, the resort will build a line of two low, concealed seawalls on the landward side of a public beach to prevent storm waters from eroding three holes of the course. One wall will be 2,000 feet long and the other 840 feet long
(...)
Eamon Ryan, the leader of the Irish Green Party opposed the walls, saying the party is considering appealing the decision.
"The best advice we had was that it would be better to move the golf holes farther inland, where there's room for them, rather than disrupt the beach," Ryan said.
The 38,000-thousand ton barrier would protect holes one, nine and 18, the Independent reported.
Joe Russell, the general manager of Trump Doonbeg, is happy with the decision and said the resort is excited to expand.
In the first application, Trump cited "global warming and its effects," including rising sea levels and water erosion, as reasons for the wall, Politico reported, despite his statements calling global warming and climate change "a total hoax."
Trump acknowledges climate change — at his golf course
The billionaire, who called global warming a hoax, warns of its dire effects in his company's application to build a sea wall.
Citing glowball warmening to get what you want.
Confirms nothing.
In any other context, reveals the scam.
"Settle down, give the man a chance. See what he actually does. And, good lord, isn't he entertaining! Let's be kind to our guest, even if he's rough and weird."
Employee, not guest.
What he actually does is an even better job of geopolitically neutering America than Cheney & Rice did - & shit howdy that surely takes real heroic levels of moxie, among other things. He also judicially retcons the exact same mutant strain of Casino Capitalism that produced such entertaining results in September 2007. Asking why a drone op waited for their target to get away from innocent civilians before initiating a strike is neither weird nor rough, it's psychopathic.
Nice to know you're enjoying the return to being pitied &/or loathed by the vast majority of the rest of humanity - enjoy it while you can.
jim,
Please provide the url to your post criticizing Obama so we can tell this isn't all just raw partisanship from you.
I agree that there is an element of the feminine in him. If he were smaller and more soft spoken, he'd be downright dainty.
So, Trump had a few enviro-weenie lawyers draw up an application for a seawall to prevent tidal erosion, and they naturally cited the globull warming bogeyman in order to win favor with the Lefty-Green Irish government, and suddenly this is proof that Trump actually believed in global warming but is now lying about it for votes?
That's incredibly lame. I'd be surprised if Trump even saw that application request before it was submitted, and even more surprised if he had any hand in writing it at all.
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