From the brilliant Rule 5 chapter — "Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them" — of Jordan Peterson's "12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos."
IN THE COMMENTS: Chuck says: "Althouse, I thought for sure you were going to pick up on 'God-Emperor' at the conclusion of that quote..." linking to "Meet the huge online forum where President Trump is 'God Emperor'" (The Week). I couldn't pick up on that because I didn't know about it, but I appreciate the link and am reading about this 380,000-member subreddit:
The Trump campaign was aware of r/The_Donald, with staffers using it as a sort of digital focus group to keep an eye on messages that resonated among Trump fans. In July of 2016, the campaign organized within the subreddit an "Ask Me Anything" event — a Reddit tradition where famous or otherwise interesting people take questions from users for a set period of time — with then-candidate Trump. The subreddit was delighted, and more than 21,000 comments poured into that single discussion thread....ALSO IN THE COMMENTS: Discussion of whether Peterson got the phrase "God Emperor" from the Trump context, and I think it's clear that the answer is no. I think Peterson would have avoided the term if he'd even noticed that it would drag in Trump — a big distraction — and there's a very obvious alternative source for the term — "God Emperor of Dune."
পোস্টগুলি
১৮৭টি মন্তব্য:
Althouse, I thought for sure you were going to pick up on "God-Emperor" at the conclusion of that quote...
Does Jordan Peterson ever have data?
"She was out to produce a little God-Emperor of the Universe" is pure nonsense. Peterson is more like an evangelist than a scientist.
From the brilliant Rule 5 chapter
"Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them"
is contradicted by
"Do not bother children while they are skateboarding"
Pet a cat? Stand up straight? It mostly obvious or silly.
How did I know *someone* would try to derail the thread with yet more obsessive Trump hatred?
Boys aged 5-9 are fatally bitten by dogs four times more often than girls.
It's dog sexism, or possibly dog discipline.
The future mates of such boys can go ahead and hate their mothers-in-law to their hearts' content so long as they pass on the DNA.
I doubt this woman's daughter got hit on the head with a metal toy truck. I doubt whether that same child pushed his sister across a fragile glass-surfaced coffee table.
Starting off with two questionable truths is no way to get me to read something.
You should see how most Hispanic mothers treat their sons versus their daughters.......
"I doubt this woman's daughter got hit on the head with a metal toy truck. I doubt whether that same child pushed his sister across a fragile glass-surfaced coffee table."
Why do you doubt these incidents happened?
The passage describes my older daughter and her son to a tee. He is the 'God-Emperor' of the household and can do no wrong. Even his DUI wasn't really his fault. No sister is involved but, as a child, he freely kicked my daughter in the shin when angry.
MadisonMan said...
Starting off with two questionable truths is no way to get me to read something.
I'm allergic to anecdotes, but that seems to be all he has.
"Such women will object vociferously to any command uttered by an adult male, but will trot off in seconds to make their progeny a peanut-butter sandwich if he demands it while immersed self-importantly in a video game."
I'd love to see the data behind that statement.
MadisonMan said...
I doubt this woman's daughter...
I don't have the book, and maybe I'm misreading the quote, but I thought the daughter was Peterson's daughter.
He’s a psychologist. Their data tends to be soft, but when making a point to a general audience it’s best to use stories and anecdotes rather than data.
Come to think of it, his whole parenting spiel is doubtful.
Parenting doesn't matter much
Genes 'n' peers, dude.
Or - how not to raise a Parkland shooter.
I think I know what Peterson's point is. In that regard, maybe we were too busy to watch TV back when it was popular, but now we have started watching Mad Men on Netflix.
Watching the 1950s, to maybe 1961, era that its writers portray is fun and nostalgia, chain smoking, interior decoration and all. But after the last 8 years of tracking The Professor's point of view, watching how those spoiled and self centered men and the foolish women is stuning.
Was it that bad? Half as bad would be stunning. It's enough to make you smoke.
Why are men so screwed up? Because they are raised primarily by women.
That story is the essence of just about every Daniel Tiger episode. There's this whole parenting movement to identify, affirm, and worth through all of a child's emotions. It reflects, though, more of a insecurity in the parent, who felt their own emotions were dismissed growing up and likely in the present. Making it more of a emotional version of the "sports dad" who drives their kids in sports to make up for their own lost athletic dreams.
People want all their feelings to be affirmed in our era, where the subjective rules. But when the subjective rules, there will always be a tyrant and hierarchy whose subjectivity trumps everyone else.
Daniel Tiger is that tyrant in the show, though he's treated as an emotionally fragile character. We all know that tigers are sociopaths, so he's not fooling anyone.
I have quite a crew of grandkids. Boys and girls. All toddlers.
The girls are every bit as physically abusive and nasty as the boys. Toddlers are savages. They have to be trained to stop beating one another up. They enjoy roughhouse play so much that they often cross the line into abuse without knowing.
The girls are far better at psychological abuse than the boys. Their social skills are more advanced.
Feminism seems to require pushing your head further and further up your ass.
Is there any chance, professor, that you will ever renounce this Marxist pile of shit that you mistakenly embraced as a kid? It's time. We all embrace some pretty fucked up ideas when we are kids. I got rid of my idiot, evil Marxist ideals. When are you going to get rid of yours?
Marxism is evil. Decent people don't speak it.
Fernandistein: Data and statistics can be just as spurious as anecdotes.
God-Emperors love Peanut-Butter.
Marxism is evil.
Well, not Groucho Marxism.
I have definitely seen women treat their sons like Emperor-Gods. I guess the flip side of that is fathers spoiling Daddy's Little Girl, but since there are not as many dads raising their kids as there used to be, Peterson is focused on the moms.
I doubt this woman's daughter got hit on the head with a metal toy truck. I doubt whether that same child pushed his sister across a fragile glass-surfaced coffee table.
Some day, you'll have kids and Tonka Trucks.
I like Madison Man doubt the story because I can't see how a glass table would make it through 2 toddlers. But I will suspend my disbelief to say that yes, parents do act like this. But I.don't think it's related to the sex of the child.
"Peterson is more like an evangelist than a scientist."
I've said a few times while listening to the audiobook: "He's like a preacher" or "This is a really first-rate pep talk."
I think he's basing his opinions on observations in his own life, including with clinical patients, but he's also bringing in a lot of material from literature as well as psychology and philosophy and evolution theory. I think he sees himself as a elder in a position to share his wisdom, which he believes he has built up through interaction between his brain and the world. It's written for the general reader, unlike his earlier book that covers the same material in a more scientific style, so he puts things in a way that will reach an audience., and the feedback from the world is that he's done this fantastically well.
Reading it, I end up thinking quite a bit that I wish I'd had this advice earlier in my life. But that doesn't mean it isn't useful now. Some of it is about understanding the past for the purpose of making sense of your life now.
"Such women will object vociferously to any command uttered by an adult male, but will trot off in seconds to make their progeny a peanut-butter sandwich if he demands it while immersed self-importantly in a video game."
I'd love to see the data behind that statement.
See: "Female Response to Male Command Utterance in Relation to Progeny Video Game Peanut-Butter Sandwich Service" Fraser, H., Parker, T. H., Nakagawa, S., Barnett, A., & Fidler, F. (2011, March 11).
I doubt this woman's daughter got hit on the head with a metal toy truck. I doubt whether that same child pushed his sister across a fragile glass-surfaced coffee table.
What, were you never a kid?
Having been a kid, and having raised three, and having helped monitor kids in our church's nursery and children's activities, I have no problem whatsoever believing these incidents occurred exactly as described.
"The innocence of children" is a lie, as is "they have to be carefully taught."
The phrase "God Emperor" -- both words capitalized -- is such an odd one in common usage, my guess is that the Trump-era usage was in the back of Jordan Peterson's mind when writing the passage that Althouse quoted.
But wait! Jordan Peterson's writing is in a book; for sure, it's a 2018 book. Still; was Jordan Peterson using it before the Trumpist use became popular? Maybe not. The Alt-right Trump fans were using "God Emperor" to describe Trump way back during the campaign, right? No later than late 2016, which means that Jordan Peterson might well have gotten it from Trumpland...
Honestly, I don't know where "God Emperor" ever originated. But I've known about the Trump-related usage for more than a year, and I am certain I will never again hear it or see it in usage without an overwhelming Trump association.
"The innocence of children" is a lie, as is "they have to be carefully taught."
Children are born as barbarians and have to be civilized.
"I doubt this woman's daughter got hit on the head with a metal toy truck. I doubt whether that same child pushed his sister across a fragile glass-surfaced coffee table."
Remember that the debunked UVa gang rape story had a a glass coffee table: "And that's when I tripped and fell against the coffee table and it smashed underneath me and this other boy, who was throwing his weight on top of me."
Dr. Peterson is using his training and clinical experience to say that we wind up with sociopaths and other personality disorders when we (Intentionally or not) reinforce socially maladaptive behaviors.
I have no doubt that he has studied the work of Ted Millon who was considered the "father of personality disorder diagnoses."
If it seems like common sense, remember that good sense is not all that common.
Case in point: Pamela Voorhees.
"'Kill her Mommy, kill her. Don't let her get away, Mommy. Don't let her live.' ...I won't, Jason. I won't."
"I got rid of my idiot, evil Marxist ideals. When are you going to get rid of yours?"
The projection of a textbook virtue signaler.
Chuck, you may never draw another breath without a Trump association.
"God Emperor" comes from the Dune infinite-ology.
It was the title of one of the early books (one of the 6 by Frank Herbert).
I see “God Emperor Trump” as a mockery of Obama-worship. On that subreddit they are all about Alinskying the Left.
Jon said...
"God Emperor" comes from the Dune infinite-ology.
It was the title of one of the early books (one of the 6 by Frank Herbert).
Was not familiar with that. I think that helps! Thanks!
Via Wikipedia:
Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors, a group of mythological rulers or deities in ancient northern China said to be god emperors
Sapa Inca, the Emperor of the Inca Empire, viewed as a god
An emperor worshipped as a deity by an imperial cult
Imperial cult (ancient Rome) identified emperors with divinely sanctioned authority
Emperor Jimmu, first Emperor of Japan according to legend
Emperor of Japan, called Tennō, "heavenly sovereign"
Modern popular culture
Leto II Atreides, the title character in Frank Herbert's science fiction novel God Emperor of Dune (1981)
The God-Emperor of Mankind, in the fictional Imperium (Warhammer 40,000)
The Emperor, the godlike character in Andreas Eschbach's The Carpet Makers (2005)
God Emperor Doom, from Marvel's Secret Wars (2015 comic book)
God-Emperor Jal-Nish Hlar, character in The Song of the Tears novel trilogy by Ian Irvine
God-Emperor, character in The Last Remnant role-playing video game
Chuck:
"God-Emperor" as a sarcastic phrase has been kicking around the science fiction world for nearly 40 years. It comes from the Dune book series by Frank Herbert. I strongly suspect that Peterson picked up that term from Herbert's books, not some subreddit about US politics.
Not everything emerged into the world the moment Trump descended the escalator.
Was it that bad? Half as bad would be stunning. It's enough to make you smoke.
Well, they did smoke a lot. No carseats for babies. Put them down on the seat and off they went!
Maybe less inclination to indulge small children who had tantrums. There's good and bad parents in every age.
"Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them"
I haven't read Peterson yet, but I wish more people would follow this rule.
I didn't know the term as relating to Trump and I'm guessing Peterson did not either (or he'd have avoided it). I'm pretty sure he would not want the association creating static there.
I think the most likely association for him was the Dune book.
People who believe the parenting does not matter meme haven't read the fine print. That is if you track this thing back to where it started from you'll find some significant assumptions.
Now if this is true, then it's only true if the child will be able to get the food he needs even if the parent is not good at supplying food. Because inadequate nutrition at a young age has extraordinary and irreversible consequences.
Or it's only true if the young child's likely neighborhood peer groups are not toxic. I say young because the younger the child is the more influence the parent has, and if the child is younger than a teenager then a normal parent will have a large amount of influence and can definitely effect choices.
Or it's only true if the public school system is not absurdly toxic. Because there are school systems that are absurdly toxic and then parents who can supply an alternative matter a lot.
It goes on. It's not that difficult to imagine situations where, obviously, a good parent makes a big difference.
The worse the environment is the more obvious this is.
The research from which this meme originates assumes that the children are in a high functioning American community. Communities, in other words, that can make up for somewhat below normal parenting.
"God Emperor" is from the Warhammer 40K universe of science-fiction themed tabletop wargaming. The boys were into it.
Its been as pervasive in the geek-verse as Dungeons & Dragons, and even girls in that cultural zone get the reference. However, even in that area of miniatures wargaming it can be quite an expensive and labor-intensive hobby. Think model railroad level expense and work. So though the references are understood, actual players are much fewer.
The back story is interesting, being complex (as sf/fantasy have to be; without actual history as a crutch everything has to be invented) full of moral ambiguity and it plays a lot off the circumstance that the "Empire of Man" exists on an edge of hysteria. Consider it something like an extra-callous Nazi state fighting a losing war, but against things that are much worse than even it is.
"The projection of a textbook virtue signaler."
Feminism is the ultimate game of the White Knight saving the Damsel in Distress from the evil mens.
Althouse has you tied around her little finger with this shit, Meade. The egghead girls are really good at this. You aren't just saving her from a single persecutor, you're saving your little lady from an entire class of evil mens.
This is a good strategy on the prof's part to get steam coming out of your ears and provide some drama in the bedroom. Althouse is a good drama queen who knows how to get her man fired up.
The trick here, kid, is to know you're being played. Don't take this shit outside the bedroom.
Having been a kid, and having raised three, and having helped monitor kids in our church's nursery and children's activities, I have no problem whatsoever believing these incidents occurred exactly as described.
Age matters a lot.
1 1/2 or 2years they grab stuff and climb on each other.
But if they are still acting like a 2 year old when they are 4 or 5 --
"In God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert analyzes the cyclical patterns of human society, as well as humanity's evolutionary drives. Using his ancestral memories, Leto II has knowledge of the entirety of human history and is able to recall the effects and patterns of tyrannical institutions, from the Babylonian Empire through the Jesuits on ancient Earth, and thus builds an empire existing as a complete nexus encompassing all these methods. This galactic empire differs from the historical tyrants in that it is deliberately designed to end in destruction, and is only instituted in the first place as part of a plan to rescue humanity from an absolute destruction which Leto II has foreseen through his oracular visions. Leto II personally explores the emergent effects of civilization, noting that most hierarchical structures are remnants of evolutionary urges toward safety. Thus, by forming a perfectly safe and stable empire, Leto II delivers a message to be felt throughout history."
Thank god I learned that the stalker hates anecdotes and goes after anyone who dares to use one.
What a relief !
It is interesting to me that so many leftists, including one of my daughters (sorry stalker), love his book and that it seems to speak to them in ways that are persuasive.
chuck does have Trump living in his head.
Fernandistein: Parenting doesn't matter much
Genes 'n' peers, dude.
Isn't it probable that parenting influences peer selection?
"God Emperor" is indeed in "Dune", but the online iconography and characterization are all from the instance in "Warhammer".
I had always assumed my mom made up the term God Emporer as an endearment while she was making me a peanut-butter sandwich.
Bitch plagiarized it apparently.
My impression is that Althouse "speaks like silence, without ideals or violence." She doesn't have to renounce anything, she's true like ice, like fire.
Fernandistein: Parenting doesn't matter much
Genes 'n' peers, dude.
Tell that to all the men in prison who didn't have fathers.
And "Dune" is required reading.
At least as much if not more so than "To Kill a Mockingbird", or "1984" .
Does Peterson tell adults to get off of their phones when they attend a children's event and someone is speaking to the group? I see lots of adults who need that advice.
Not long ago we were at a small library event where all the people, adults and children, were in one row facing the librarian. At one point, the librarian read a short book to the group. Two parents were on their phones!
Also recently, we were at a children's sporting event at a church that included a little ten minute sermon of encouragement. There were exhortations to set good examples for children and to give one's full attention to them when interacting. A dad in the front row was on his phone the whole time as he had been for much of the game.
Way to totally blow it, adults.
Warhammer 40K is basically a massive amalgamation of tropes lifted from a ton of Sci Fi and Fantasy. Everything from Robert A Heinlein (Starship Troopers), Frank Herbert (Dune), Tolkien, H.P. Lovecraft, Jack Kirby... not to mention a slew of derivative works like the Alien movies. It's basically a giant nexus of male adolescent-nerd fantasy stuff. Good stuff.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
God-Emperor or God Emperor may refer to:
Historical
Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors, a group of mythological rulers or deities in ancient northern China said to be god emperors
Sapa Inca, the Emperor of the Inca Empire, viewed as a god
An emperor worshipped as a deity by an imperial cult
Imperial cult (ancient Rome) identified emperors with divinely sanctioned authority
Emperor Jimmu, first Emperor of Japan according to legend
Emperor of Japan, called Tennō, "heavenly sovereign"
Modern popular culture
Leto II Atreides, the title character in Frank Herbert's science fiction novel God Emperor of Dune (1981)
The God-Emperor of Mankind, in the fictional Imperium (Warhammer 40,000)
The Emperor, the godlike character in Andreas Eschbach's The Carpet Makers (2005)
God Emperor Doom, from Marvel's Secret Wars (2015 comic book)
God-Emperor Jal-Nish Hlar, character in The Song of the Tears novel trilogy by Ian Irvine
God-Emperor, character in The Last Remnant role-playing video game
"God Emperor of Dune" is a lesser sequel to the original novel. The series is, like much if not all science fiction, a good introduction to big thoughts - humanity scale, if not universe-scale perspectives.
We are, for instance, perthaps not that far from the "Butlerian Jihad", against AI.
I try my best not to let commenters like Chuck and Shouting Thomas get away with anything that makes me dislike them but let's be real — I'm but one mortal man.
I ain't no Hercules.
"Not long ago we were at a small library event where all the people, adults and children, were in one row facing the librarian. At one point, the librarian read a short book to the group. Two parents were on their phones!"
Phone etiquette, or non-etiquette, is out-of-control.
Can't expect the kids to not act like barbarians if parents don't give a good example.
I do not understand why people react so strongly to Jordan Peterson.
Francisco D said...
Dr. Peterson is using his training and clinical experience to say that we wind up with sociopaths and other personality disorders when we (Intentionally or not) reinforce socially maladaptive behaviors.
They come to those conclusions when they ignore genetics, which has been completely typical until recently. I have yet to hear Peterson mention genes*.
1 - "The kids are jerks because their parents taught them to be jerks",
or
2 - "The kids inherited their jerk-genes from their parents."
Pinker and many others say #2: Will The Blank Slate change the way parents think about their kids?
"They might lose the illusion that they can micromanage their children's personalities. Parents can influence their children in terms of neighborhood--what peer group they immerse their children in. But many parents think that whether their child will grow up to be conscientious or lackadaisical, neurotic or self-confident, depends crucially on how they're treated in the home. I hope parents would have some skepticism about those claims."
*Peterson's publications:
Not mentioned: child, parent, mother, father, *heri*
Gene mentioned:
"D4 receptor gene and moderation"
"using genetic programming to model", IOW no inheritance.
So he's a blank-slatist. That so yesterday.
The other major historical analogy of the "Empire of Man" in WH 40K, besides the Nazi state fighting desperately on the Eastern Front, is the late Roman Empire, always on the brink of destruction at barbarian hands.
God-Emperor is an archetype.
God-Emperor is from Warhammer 40k, which stole it from Dune.
Michael K said...
Thank god I learned that the stalker hates anecdotes and goes after anyone who dares to use one.
What a relief !
You got caught bullshitting and now you're blustering. A class act!
Part of the point of Trump as the "God Emperor" in alt-right iconography is that of the strategic position of the "Empire of Man" in WH 40K. His imperium is the last bulwark of mankind against the alien forces about to overwhelm the species.
It is a battle for survival, therefore any means are justified. The analogy to the present is easily grasped.
Fernandistein: So he's a blank-slatist.
As best as I can tell Jordan Peterson believes in Jungian archetypes (and I don't really understand what that all means and I'm trying to understand it, but partly these are stories) and he not only believes in their existence but that they are built into us. That is a long way from believing people are blank slates.
Some day, you'll have kids and Tonka Trucks.
I've raised a girl and a boy. Somewhat successfully, even, maybe. (I mean, they're 50/50 on gainful employment! One is still matriculating).
I doubt the story because (1) Most trucks are plastic and (2) as Althouse mentioned, the UVa glass table and the glass-topped "fragile" coffee table in the story has survived this kid for years? Riiiight.
I thought Jordan was a girl.
The glass top table in the UVA case was the dead giveaway. When I read that I told my wife the story was bullshit. No fraternity, ever, has had a glass top table. The bad liar always has an unnecessary detail.
My older brother, God-damned Emperor during my childhood, stopped hitting me the day I heard him sneaking up behind me and gave him a punch right in the nuts, leaving him on the floor as I unapologetically left the room. He could still outfight me, but the prospect of me sneaking up on him and surprising him with violence seemed to make his doing so less entertaining to him. Odd, that.
You got caught bullshitting and now you're blustering. A class act!
I don't get into battles of wits with unarmed boys/girls.
So you're safe
MadisonMan said..."I thought Jordan was a girl."
I gathered that and it made me wonder if it affected your sense of whether the anecdotes are credible.
Tonka trucks were (are?) metal. So it is not out of the question that there were metal toy trucks.
I'm reminded of a fable Florence King mentioned in one of her books, a story about a boy whose sweetheart commands him to cut out his mother's heart and bring it to her as proof of his devotion. The boy does so, but as he is hurrying to his girlfriend's house with it, he stumbles and falls, whereupon the heart speaks: "Are you hurt, my son?"
King used the story to make a point about liberal coddling of criminals.
You can still AFAIK, get die-cast toy trucks frim Tonka, and heavy-guage sheet steel also.
My experience of toy stores and boys toys is less than 20 years old.
MadisonMan: I doubt the story because (1) Most trucks are plastic and (2) as Althouse mentioned, the UVa glass table and the glass-topped "fragile" coffee table in the story has survived this kid for years? Riiiight.
We had metal toy trucks when I was a kid. They're unusual now, but not unheard of.
Also, why are you assuming the incident with the coffee table happened at the kids' own home?
My granddaughters, by the time they were 2, figured out how to get in a clandestine punch, kick or trip or two before an adult saw what they were doing.
The grandsons take much longer to figure this out. In general, they wear their emotions on their sleeves and are incapable of hiding anything. Maybe it’s a sense of honor. They don’t know how to conceal.
So, quite often, I’m aware that when I see the boys hitting back that the girls have already gotten in a few combinations.
You’ve got to have a sense of humor about this shit. My sisters and I fought endlessly and only stopped when non-related kids interfered so that we could kick their asses. It was good fun.
Another analogy in WH40K is to the legends of King Arthur/the Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, and others. Though they are dead, they are supposed to wake and return in the final crisis of their peoples.
The God Emperor has been in an ambiguous, near-death state for 10,000 years. But he might wake come the final crisis.
Michael said...
The glass top table in the UVA case was the dead giveaway. When I read that I told my wife the story was bullshit. No fraternity, ever, has had a glass top table. The bad liar always has an unnecessary detail.
3/28/18, 10:51 AM
If I remember correctly, the girl alleged that she was thrown down so violently on the table that the glass shattered and she was raped while lying on top of shards of glass. That is what tipped me off - she likely would have bled to death if that happened. She saw too many Hollywood movies and cop shows which feature men who are tossed through windows, with shattered glass flying everywhere. Yet arteries are never cut; in fact, there there is very little blood and they pick themselves up and commence to battle away with their fists. Scenes like that might lead the credulous to think broken glass is no big deal.
"Also, why are you assuming the incident with the coffee table happened at the kids' own home?"
Because that is where she said it happened.
mandrewa said...
...and he not only believes in their existence but that they are built into us. That is a long way from believing people are blank slates.
That's a good point, and similarly he was also on to something about natural lobster hierarchies, but both those things seem to argue for a "human nature" which everyone shares, but which is a different idea from the inheritance of personality characteristics.
If he's going to claim that parenting causes personality problems in children, possibly resulting in an obnoxious "Michael K" sort of creature, without addressing inheritance, then I'll consider him a blank-slatist.
I was brought up in a society that taught me raising kids right involved a lot of nurture and that nature didn't count for much.
Now that I've raised three, I see more and more that it was the other way around. At best, we're around to make sure they don't run into traffic.
Of course, you can fuck up your kids if you do it right. But I saw that their way of thinking replicated their parents' way of thinking. It was inbred. So is their flaws and neuroses, and I couldn't do shit to change that.
If we could resist our impulses, we'd all save more money and weigh much less.
The glass top table in the UVA case was the dead giveaway
Not only that, but such a table has a structure to hold up the glass. What happened to it ?
"Honestly, I don't know where "God Emperor" ever originated. But I've known about the Trump-related usage for more than a year, and I am certain I will never again hear it or see it in usage without an overwhelming Trump association."
Chuck, you will never hear the words "paper cut" or "final four" without an overwhelming Trump association. You're a sick man, and you should really get some help.
Fernandistein said ... "So he's a blank-slatist. That so yesterday."
The tabula rasa notion comes from a few centuries ago. Psychologists in this century readily embrace the role of genetics. We pioneered the study of monozygotic and dizygotic twins. Jordan Peterson is quite current on genetic and psychological research.
You are not. For your edification, he has a number of lectures on YouTube.
Frank Herbert had very few truly original ideas, but was very adept at cribbing from obscure historical sources.
I noticed that when my boys were little, the wife would be appalled by bad or violent behavior, but she wouldn't do what was necessary to stomp it out either. I think a lot of women just don't understand male psychology, how males interact, and what a boy sees as "punishment" vs a mere annoyance.
For instance, a 2 or 3 year old would throw a clearly telegraphed punch at her and she would let it land! And then I would have to come in an punish the kid for hitting his Mom.
On the very few occasions that one of them tried to hit me, I would catch it in mid air, and make it very clear that trying to hit me was a futile enterprise - they would fail utterly, and then be punished for it anyway. Each kid tried a couple of times and then gave up.
I wouldn't say that raising small boys is exactly like training a dog, but it's not that different either.
I was brought up in a society that taught me raising kids right involved a lot of nurture and that nature didn't count for much.
Now that I've raised three, I see more and more that it was the other way around. At best, we're around to make sure they don't run into traffic
Why are most crimes committed by people who had no father in the home when they were young?
>>Watching the 1950s, to maybe 1961, era that its writers portray
Mad Men started with the Kennedy-Nixon election in 1961 and ended with an iconic commercial from 1971.
--gpm
It's such a drag when, for all your piety and wit, your kid turns out to be an asshole. Then you ask yourself where that came from.
"Because that is where she said it happened."
Jordan Peterson is a he.
And he didn't say that. It could have been in his psychiatry office, for example.
Francisco D said...
Jordan Peterson is quite current on genetic and psychological research.
Cite? Does he ev er mention it?
You are not.
Oh, really? Do tell. I mean it, please, do tell.
For your edification, he has a number of lectures on YouTube.
I've tried to watch a couple and I did not find them edifying or educational at all, since they consisted of anecdotes and unsupported assertions, some of which I already knew to be false.
The glass top table in the UVA case was the dead giveaway
Not only that, but such a table has a structure to hold up the glass. What happened to it?
Not only that, but the guys would have had to be kneeling in the broken glass.
Now can a glass coffee table survive the impact of two toddlers? A good one, certainly. The glass in some of these is half-inch thick tempered glass.
I wouldn't say that raising small boys is exactly like training a dog, but it's not that different either.
Children do need to be trained. Have we forgotten that? Consistency is of the utmost importance with kids and dogs.
Michael K said...
"You got caught bullshitting and now you're blustering. A class act!"
I don't get into battles of wits with unarmed boys/girls.
But you're still emitting words! I guess that means you have enough self-knowledge to realize that your words are not witty.
Fernandistein said, If he's going to claim that parenting causes personality problems in children...without addressing inheritance, then I'll consider him a blank-slatist.
Personally, I think genes explain a lot. I suspect certain traits and tendencies are almost fixed at birth, and you can change the trajectory, maybe, but not the basic fact. And I sort of remember listening to Peterson to talk about certain neurotic problems he's had (I think we are talking depression), and problems his daughter had had, and problems a parent (and other relatives) had had, so I'd guess he's more than familiar with the idea of hereditary illness.
I've also heard him talk about a certain aggressive, somewhat anti-social behavior that most two-year old boys manifest, and that they've typical grown out of by the time they are three. But there are some boys still manifesting this behavior when they are four, and if so, this is really bad news, and if this situation is not changed quickly it's basically over. They will become violent criminals. They will be failures as adults.
So this a dramatic opportunity where a good parent could change everything. Because if you see this happening, and you know what to do, you can dramatically change the course of that child's life.
This is why the absence of fathers is so detrimental.
"God-Emperor" is a fun phrase to use around "liberal" State-fellators. After years of conditioning and programming, they automatically drop to their knees when they hear it.
mockturtle said...
"Children do need to be trained. Have we forgotten that? Consistency is of the utmost importance with kids and dogs."
I've been saying for years—the best use for dogs in our modern world is as practice for young couples who are ambivalent about starting a family. If you don't have the time, money, ability to care for a puppy—food, shelter, health care, exercise, AND TRAINING—think long and hard before conceiving a human child. At least with the ruined puppy you can fatten it up, butcher and eat it. The ruined human puppy just becomes everyones' barking mad problem (nd lives way too long—about 20 in dog years).
Indeed kids do need training. Sometimes your first instinct in disciplining them is the correct one, I found that overthinking it was a mistake. Kids can sense their parents weakness and like the little tyrants they can be, will take advantage of it. Go with your gut, unless you’re a tyrant yourself and overdo the discipline. Swift, strong, precise parenting, is essential and don’t be a beta in your own home with your own children. You’re the alpha and don’t let your kids forget it. I recall there were times I’d have to simply say “Because I’m the mom” after continued appeals after explaining why I said no to some request that was not safe, or proper, or was wayyyy too extravagant, or not age appropriate. They won’t like you for it at the time, but when they have kids of their own they’ve repeated almost word for word what I used to tell them. All four kids turned out to be adults I’m very proud of and the grandkids are great, except one little guy age three, daughter #3 and hubby haven’t find tuned the discipline yet. I see them struggling, but I’ve also seen them become more of the alphas in the home. Having another son helped that along, who’s got time for fooling around with two young boy’s discipline? Swift, steady, decisive discipline followed with letting them know you love them enough to not let them grow up to be jerks
From an old Conan pastiche:
Conan spoke to the officer: "What valley is this?"
"Meru," said the chief. "Men call it, Cup of Gods."
"Are we going down there?"
"Aye. You go to great city, Shamballah."
"Then what?"
"That for rimpoche-for god-king to decide."
"Who's he?"
"Jalung Thongpa, Terror of Men and Shadow of Heaven. You move along now, white-skinned dog. No time for talk."
Conan growled deep in his throat as a spear prick urged him on, silently vowing some day to teach this god-king the meaning of terror.
He wondered if this ruler's divinity were proof against a foot of steel in his guts... But any such happy moment was still in the future.
Jordan Peterson is quite current on genetic and psychological research.
You are not. For your edification, he has a number of lectures on YouTube.
Shhhh
She thinks she knows everything.
I think she hates psychology almost as much as she hates religion.
Dear Inga:
"..All four kids turned out to be adults I’m very proud of and the grandkids are great,.."
Just as long as they recognize their white privilege things will turn out great.
“She thinks she knows everything.”
I suspect “she’s” a he. Interesting that Michael K thinks Fernandi...something is a female.
Blogger John Holland said...
Chuck:
"God-Emperor" as a sarcastic phrase has been kicking around the science fiction world for nearly 40 years...?"
3/28/18, 10:16 AM
Your knowledge of this is rather limited! As AA points out, the Chinese have been using the term "God-Emperor" for 1,000s of years. Throw in the "Pharaohs" in Egypt and you have 1,000s of additional years. Try not to think to much, your laser-like interpretations are rather shallow.
"... think long and hard before conceiving a human child..."
Ignore this advice. White women are destroying us with this stupid shit. European women are so bad that they are abandoning the continent to the Moors. Remember, if you follow this idiot fucking advice you'll be old and alone without grandkids. Grandkids are the spiritual wrap up of your existence.
Get married when you are young. Have a bunch of kids because you love fucking and you want to build an empire. Burn your fucking Excel spreadsheet and stop calculating the cost.
Have fun. Get down on the rug. Play in the back yard. Go crazy with your kids.
Evil will continue to exist. The human condition isn't going to improve. Who the fuck cares? My only regret in this life is that I didn't have enough kids.
Your job on this earth is to procreate. Get busy.
Blogger Inga said...
“She thinks she knows everything.”
I suspect “she’s” a he. Interesting that Michael K thinks Fernandi...something is a female.
I'm not sure but the hissy fit thing sounds female to me.
Almost as angry as Ritmo but has good opinions as long as she stays away from religion and psychology.
Bob Boyd, my mistake. I thought you were referring to the UVA incident.
Tempered glass shatters into small pieces, so you won't be impaled as in the movies, but they're still pretty sharp.
When I was young, I backed my sister through an untempered storm door glass when she got between me and my older brother. Can't remember if Grandma gave me PB&J, but I was her favorite and knew it.
buwaya said...
Part of the point of Trump as the "God Emperor" in alt-right iconography is that of the strategic position of the "Empire of Man" in WH 40K. His imperium is the last bulwark of mankind against the alien forces about to overwhelm the species.
It is a battle for survival, therefore any means are justified. The analogy to the present is easily grasped.
Only works with geeks who know warhammer 40k and people who have seen other countries where the barbarians are in control. Most of the geeks are unable to make the connection as well.
buwaya said...
"God Emperor of Dune" is a lesser sequel to the original novel. The series is, like much if not all science fiction, a good introduction to big thoughts - humanity scale, if not universe-scale perspectives.
We are, for instance, perthaps not that far from the "Butlerian Jihad", against AI.
It should be required reading.
But the democracy-bureaucracy-aristocracy transition hits too close to home for the leftists that control our public education system to allow.
BTW, never grab tempered glass with visegrips. The whole thing shatters.
Just what the US needs, Shouting Thomas: more people they can't afford. If you want to see how that works out, visit the slummier sections of town--any town.
By the way (just out of curiosity) can you make a logical case for anything in your screed, or is it all (in the broadest sense of the terms) religious or faith-based?
I meant, "more people having kids they can't afford."
"I thought Jordan was a girl."
No, he's a grandfather. Professor of Psychology at University of Toronto.
Grandfather: metal trucks when he was raising his kids maybe? now it's plastic.
most controversial thing he said was that kids don't like Frozen. the movie for all of you who don't have littles in the house and haven't seen it 1000 times.
Well, yeah, the poor and uneducated are continuing to spawn.
The white mandarin class has decided to commit suicide through gay worship and childlessness.
What in the hell does this shit have to do with logic? Logic is wiping whites off the face of the earth.
You’re very confused. Stop thinking that having children has a damned thing to do with logic. People who love life and are driven by the desire to get all they can out of life have children for the sheer joy of it, and to see their faces in their grandchildren.
Are you really as boring, bereft of passion and lust for life as you seem?
You are an example of the general confusion behind whites committing racial suicide.
Gordon Scott said...
The glass top table in the UVA case was the dead giveaway
This was only about the fifth most obvious tell that was a hoax. The dead giveaway was the lack of consistency in story building. All rapists want to escape justice and their methods fall into one of two categories: claimed consent or non-identification. The ascendant concern on campus is claimed consent which includes date or acquaintance rape and incapacity. Claimed consent relies on the perp's ability to claim consent was given and is being inappropriately retro-withdrawn.
But in the UVA story one of the perps punched Jackie in the face to begin the rape sequence as Drew leads her into his upstairs bedroom. This is inconsistent with the claimed consent rationale, no prosecutor or tribunal is going to believe a woman beat to a pulp gave consent. Remember "Drew" asked her to the function - he didn't come across her lying in drunken stupor and do this because she wouldn't remember. So she's going to identify him when she wakes up.
This sort of mixup happens when non-logical people make stuff up. Reasonable people recognize this which is why police are trained to document the story. This is why staffing police (or Title IX show trials) with activists is so abhorrent. Remember Jackie had been telling this story for years without any of them even gentry telling her her story needs work.
Here's what Michael K is all pissed off about, as if it matters:
Michael K said...
Blogger Trumpit said..."Not one of the usual shameless trolls around here sees the irony in the fact that John Lennon was assassinated by a psychotic David Mark Chapman with a .38 Special in 1980."
Why irony ?
Chapman was psychotic. That is what the story about most of these mass shooters is.
But mass shooters are very rarely psychotic (look it up!), so I replied, without rancor or insults, quoting a "sciencedirect" article, with a link in the quote:
Fernandistein said...
Chapman wasn't a mass shooter.
"The causes of mass murders are multiple and complex: although they rarely seem to be related to psychotic mental pathologies, they are always an expression of suffering that manifests itself in a psychological crisis that is both homicidal and suicidal."
Rather than defending his false statement, or admitting he was wrong, Michael K blusters, insults and doubles-down on his stupidity while not recognizing that what I wrote was a quote, and criticizes the grammar of the article's author:
Michael K said...
I see the stalker has a new and fatuous comment about mass shooters. She needs grammar instruction.
Francisco D said...
Jordan Peterson is quite current on genetic and psychological research.
You are not
After some fresh air ...
You realize that, since I was largely just referencing Steven Pinker, that you're claiming Pinker is not current on "genetic and psychological research". You sure you want to do that?
But please, do tell.
Jordan Peterson's daughter is 30 years old - maybe a little older - so, we're talking 28 +/- years ago. Metal toys were quite available.
He didn't say the glass table broke. And, maybe, fragile, is the wrong adjective, but seeing your child pushed on to a glass table brings forth a certain, awful fear.
Years ago when I was babysitting my two-year old grandson, he refused to stay in bed for his nap. He kept getting up and I kept putting him back in bed. Between 15 and 20 times, I'm sure. He finally gave in and stayed in bed. The following day he stayed in bed at nap time. A two-year-old is testing his/her will against yours. And if you let him/her win, heaven help you! But if you are not decisive [as Inga suggests] and consistent, your child will become a young tyrant. Training children is hard work.
mockturtle said...
Marxism is evil.
Well, not Groucho Marxism.
"Capitalism is the woist thing I've ever hoid."
-- Karl Marx
Inga said...
I suspect “she’s” a he.
You are correct.
Interesting that Michael K thinks Fernandi...something is a female.
He's pretty clueless, but this time he has an excuse. I socially reconstruct my gender to be the opposite of my biological sex when asked for gender, as "blogger" does, so the curious little guy got it from the profile. And BTW, it's "Fernandi-whatever".
What is Bob Dylan, who Althouse constantly gushes over, but a god emperor?
Ten percent of the boys in my kids’ generation are named after him.
So, please explain to me, prof, why you’re in on the general god emperor worship when it comes to Dylan, but opposed to it for other people’s boys?
I really can’t figure out what the fuck is wrong with white intellectual women. Why aren’t they cheering on their sons and their men to conquer the world in the same way that other women do?
“He's pretty clueless, but this time he has an excuse. I socially reconstruct my gender to be the opposite of my biological sex when asked for gender, as "blogger" does, so the curious little guy got it from the profile.”
Michael K puts a lot of stock in commenter profiles, apparently. lol. I knew you were a male, don’t know why exactly, I admit I didn’t check out your profile. I haven’t seen any other female besides myself and one other female commenter confront Michael K on his behavior.
Your job on this earth is to procreate. Get busy.
That is the natural fitness function. Everything else is negotiable, and, actually, an article of faith and religion.
Fernandistein said ... "You realize that, since I was largely just referencing Steven Pinker, that you're claiming Pinker is not current on "genetic and psychological research". You sure you want to do that?"
There is a lot more to it than Steven Pinker, whom I find interesting and useful.
You remind me of Inga. You read headlines and then try to provoke people with a cursory understanding of the material.
You don't know very much about what you are talking about. I took my first psychology class 47 years ago and have earned two Ph.D.s in the field. Are you sure you want to challenge me?
Maybe you can challenge Michael K. on a medical question.
Just like a troll - ignorant and inflammatory.
Thanks for the reply, Shouting Thomas. I wanted to see how reasonable you are. Now I know.
Inga said...
Michael K puts a lot of stock in commenter profiles, apparently. lol.
Please don't tell anybody, but I'm not really a retired "stirpiculture archetype".
I haven’t seen any other female besides myself and one other female commenter confront Michael K on his behavior.
I know he likes to insult people right off the bat, which is how our little love affair got started, and if insulted back he acts as though he were aghast - "how could they!?!" - and apparently the only explanation he can dream up for his having been insulted is that the other person has obsessions or some other mental problem.
And he seems surprised that he's been kicked off a bunch of other forums, which, of course, is always someone else's fault.
But it's kinda fun to see him bluster and blather.
Maybe you can challenge Michael K. on a medical question.
Just like a troll - ignorant and inflammatory.
No, I doubt she can challenge anyone who knows what they are talking about.
The internet and blog comment sections see a lot of role playing by people who have no life outside.
Anonymity seems to add to this.
By the way, I use "she" to indicate my opinion of its logic.
Context is all wrong for the God Emperor of Dune . . . no doting mother is raising her cossetted son to become a contemplative worm-human hybrid who, while also serving as the Emperor of the Known Universe, spends half his time reminiscing about his past lives. And toying with endless clones of his father's devoted manservant, Duncan Idaho. Warhammer 40K is closer, but I think it's really just a generic reference to the idea of a mortal ruler proclaiming himself dominus ac deus -- the Lord and God -- as Domitian is supposed to have done.
Francisco D said...
You don't know very much about what you are talking about.
But apparently you can't actually point out anything false or incorrect that I've said.
I took my first psychology class 47 years ago and have earned two Ph.D.s in the field. Are you sure you want to challenge me?
I'm doing so right now.
I took my first psych course at about the same time you did and decided the field might make a good hobby, which it has been since then.
Maybe you can challenge Michael K. on a medical question.
Oh, I have. And he was wrong. One such instance is right above, in this thread. You can read it if you like.
Just like a troll - ignorant and inflammatory.
If you were able to point out something I've stated that was false or incorrect, I might think that sentence wasn't your signature.
Also, re: Althouse's wikipedia excerpt, I'm kind of surprised that Haile Selassie I, King of Kings of Ethiopia, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, formerly Ras Tafari, isn't on that list. Maybe it's a matter of cultural sensitivity? I mean, the Rastafarian cult worshiped him as a God, didn't they?
Prince Philip is also apparently worshiped as a god in some places, but he's not a reigning monarch, just a consort, so it's not quite the same thing.
I see no point in feeding this stalker troll.
It's too bad because I agree with many of her opinions but she seems very angry and fixated on a few subjects.
I am just going to give my perspective as a male:
I loved and love my mother a great deal, and would punch anyone who disrespected her, but here is the hard truth- I only personally respected her authority growing up because of my father backing it up with his; and I doubt that I am a minority in that attitude- it just isn't in make-up of young males to respect female authority on its own.
"Years ago when I was babysitting my two-year old grandson, he refused to stay in bed for his nap. He kept getting up and I kept putting him back in bed. Between 15 and 20 times, I'm sure. He finally gave in and stayed in bed. The following day he stayed in bed at nap time. A two-year-old is testing his/her will against yours. And if you let him/her win, heaven help you! But if you are not decisive [as Inga suggests] and consistent, your child will become a young tyrant. Training children is hard work."
All this. It's good to avoid battles of wills with kids when possible, but if it comes to a battle of wills between parent and child, the parent had better win.
(There's a corollary there that that is unless the parent himself realizes that he is being totally unreasonable. Then the parent should apologize for that and explain why he's reconsidered his position. If the kid was civilized enough to stay respectful during the disagreement, it can then end there.)
I only personally respected her authority growing up because of my father backing it up with his
Just wait 'til your father gets home.
Gahrie said...
Fernandistein: Genes 'n' peers, dude.
Tell that to all the men in prison who didn't have fathers.
And to all the men in prison who had a father present, and to the fatherless men who were never in prison.
SeanF said...
Isn't it probable that parenting influences peer selection?
I would think that would depend more on the neighborhood and school, tho of course the neighborhood and school depend on the parents' decisions (and their money), if not their actual parenting.
There is feedback wherein people select environments, including peers, which match their genetic tendencies, say chess club vs football vs hang out and smoke cigarettes, which will tend to amplify the genetic inclinations.
"But apparently you can't actually point out anything false or incorrect that I've said."
You have not made a statement that displays any understanding or knowledge. I think your purpose is to agitate not elucidate.
Along with Michael, I'm out.
Just wait 'til your father gets home.
Words my mother used fairly often, and words that even today (I am 51) still chill me a bit when I remember them.
"God Emperor" was 2016. It's "GEOTUS" now.
YW says: it just isn't in make-up of young males to respect female authority on its own.
Not by the time they enter their teens.
FWIW "God Emperor of Dune" was IMO deadly dull and killed my interest in the series. Roughly 400 pages of imperial retrospective and maybe 50 pages of action. Herbert works were imaginative and well plotted but humorless.
Words my mother used fairly often
Apart from that, one of the first things a boy learns from his Father is How to Tune Out Mommy.
I find Peterson refreshing and he's sparked an interest in Jung, something that I didn't think was possible after struggling to read him in German.
It's well established that both environment and genes affect the development of kids.
Genes: Learning disabilities, allergies, predisposition to certain mental illnesses, physical disabilities. Some genes can be "turned on" by strep throat, toxoplasmosis.
Environment: Kids with healthy, involved parents and/or extended supportive family have a huge advantage over kids without healthy families. Kids with sick or dying parents, and without supportive extended family, are more likely to be maladjusted or at risk.
That school shooter, who was adopted. He lost both parents. Good chance he wouldn't have shot up the school if one of his parents was alive. Better chance of raising a healthy or adjusted kid if both adopted parents were alive.
It's not all about environment and loss of parents. His adopted half-brother didn't shoot up the school. The adopted half-brother doesn't seem to have his problems or predispositions.
"Context is all wrong for the God Emperor of Dune . . . no doting mother is raising her cossetted son to become a contemplative worm-human hybrid who, while also serving as the Emperor of the Known Universe, spends half his time reminiscing about his past lives."
I like sci fi, but I've avoided Dune ever since I heard it was about a Sand Worm.
Fernandi seems to be relying on that old psych meta study purporting to prove parents have little influence. But wasn’t that one discredited? I vaguely recall something about that. Anyone know? Francisco D?
"I've avoided Dune ever since I heard it was about a Sand Worm."
A very large number of Sand Worms. And Sand Worm poop.
Francisco D said...
You have not made a statement that displays any understanding or knowledge. I think your purpose is to agitate not elucidate.
But you can't actually find one statement worth criticizing.
Thanks!
You're a Peterson fan and I think he's a bit of a shyster; he sure is making a lot of money.
Along with Michael, I'm out.
Oh, he's not out, he's made about four posts babbling insults about how he's ignoring me while illustrating what I said about him.
wwww said...
It's well established that both environment and genes affect the development of kids.
It's the proportions which are debatable and, esp in this thread, the influence of parents per se, vs the rest of the enviornment, which has been overestimated due to not controlling for genetic inheritance.
They used to blame "ice mothers" and such for autism and schizophrenia; turns out that was completely wrong, but it sure sounds similar to what Peterson is saying, in his round-about way.
That school shooter, who was adopted. He lost both parents.
His bio-mom, whom he never met:
“Nik’s biological mother was just a complete screw-up, drug addict and thief, ... The birth mother, she didn’t even really know who the two[his brother] biological fathers were.”
Good chance he wouldn't have shot up the school if one of his parents was alive.
Hard to tell. Klebold was also adopted, but that's the problem with anecdotes: I just find an adopted kid who didn't shoot up a school. I'd guess that kids put up for adoption tend to have less than optimal biological parents, with exceptions, of course.
What's the deal with people all talking about these people I have no idea as to who they are or why I should care. Like Jordan Peterson.
re: buwaya:
A very large number of Sand Worms. And Sand Worm poop.
Worms for the Worm God! Spice for the spice throne!
www said: ... "It's well established that both environment and genes affect the development of kids. "
Quite true. It seems that we find stronger evidence of genetic predispositions to temperament and personality every 5-10 years.
However, parents can definitely turn a kid into a personality disorder that bedevils members of society for his or her lifetime.
Francisco D, I see no mention by the stalker that black inner city boys that run wild without fathers are not genetically determined to be criminals.
There is pathology to be seen in blog commenters.
"Worms for the Worm God! Spice for the spice throne!"
Did not know the "blood for the blood God!" thing.
Amazing lot of stuff online on WH40K.
No end of Youtube videos either.
Personally, I liked HO trains better for the kids, but then I'm boring.
I hated Dune. Hated it with an intensity unmatched by any book I have suffered through.
Meanwhile, back in reality:
David Hogg, a self-appointed spokesman for a generation, revealed on Tuesday that four universities he has applied to have rejected his application.
The Florida high school student, a vocal survivor of the February 14 shooting in Parkland, said four different campuses in the University of California school system have turned him down: UC Los Angeles, UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara and UC Irvine.
"It's been kind of annoying having to deal with that and everything else that's been going on but at this point, you know, we're changing the world. We're too busy. Right now it's hard to focus on that," he said.
To paraphrase the Statlers:
And the Class of '18 has its dreams
They all think they'll change the world with their great work and deeds
Or maybe they just think the world will change to fit their needs
But living life day to day is never like it seems
Things get complicated when you get past eighteen
But the Class of '18 is either having its dreams
Or the Class of '18 is living its nightmares.
But really getting back to the real world requires this addition: Hogg, who holds a 4.2 grade point average, had [already] been accepted at Florida Atlantic University, Cal Poly and Cal State San Marcos.
"I hated Dune."
My intense sci-fi dislike goes to Asimov's famous Foundation. Technocrat fascism.
"I hated Dune."
Me too, but I loved Francesca Annis.
I plead guilty to not being very sensible.
On the other hand, I’m financially secure and retired and my back yard is full every day with laughing, rowdy grandkids who want me to play with them.
God-Emperor is from Frank Herbert's science-fiction novel Dune. Peterson is talk repeatedly about how when he was a teenager he read the classic science fiction, Asimov, Clark, Heinlein. He would certainly also have read Dune. Petersons own personal drama is so completely dominated his life, that he is remarkably on the attuned to American politics and to Donald Trump.
Freeman Hunt said...
My intense sci-fi dislike goes to Asimov's famous Foundation. Technocrat fascism.
Absolutely right about Foundation, maybe the worst and most dangerous book ever written.
But I still like Sci-Fi.
If a mother wants to maximize the number of grandchildren she has, she should favor her sons, who can have more children (even if not ethically, ie by lots of women) than her daughters.
It's not all about environment and loss of parents. His adopted half-brother didn't shoot up the school. The adopted half-brother doesn't seem to have his problems or predispositions.
At one point recently, if not still, they were locked up in the same prison.
And to all the men in prison who had a father present, and to the fatherless men who were never in prison.
The vast majority of men in prison (and almost all mass shooters), had no father in the home.
To be honest, I think you're the first person who has ever attempted to discredit the effects of fatherlessness.
The vast majority of men in prison (and almost all mass shooters), had no father in the home.
To be honest, I think you're the first person who has ever attempted to discredit the effects of fatherlessness.
But, Gahrie, you cannot show cause and effect, only correlation. There could be genetic factors that bad or missing fathers hand down to their kids. It's probably a combination of both, with genetic factors being perhaps stronger. In either case, children need training. You can't just let them grow up like weeded-over gardens. A quality such as empathy usually develops in most children at about the same age. But behavior in childhood is largely a feature of discipline, or training.
because of the one child policy, boys of affluent parents in China are called little Empreors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Emperor_Syndrome
Since Canada has many affluent Chinese immigrants, I suspect he might have picked up the phrase from them, rather than from a political origin.
Eric the Fruit Bat said...
The future mates of such boys can go ahead and hate their mothers-in-law to their hearts' content so long as they pass on the DNA.
I'd been thinking about that sentence since I saw it, and as is not unusual, Mr. Fruitbat gets directly to something that everyone else missed, namely DNA and reproduction, the basis of all human behavior.
"Darwin in the Madhouse" argues that obnoxious personalities are not necessarily a disorder, but are adaptive if they lead to more offspring, which, biologically speaking, is exactly the opposite of a "disorder", even if the personalities are obnoxious to other people.
Which lends more credence to the "mostly or almost entirely genetic 90+% of the time" theory of obnoxious people.
I'm reminded of a high-school friend, a schizophrenic National Merit Scholar who died in a mental hospital in his 30s, who told his dad that he wanted to major in psychology, what with being kinda nutty himself and all that.
His dad said "why don't you get a magazine subscription instead?"
"Smartest thing my dad ever said."
Gahrie said...
To be honest, I think you're the first person who has ever attempted to discredit the effects of fatherlessness.
I guess you don't get out much.
"When Children Are Better Off Fatherless"
"Nor are the children of lesbian parents. Nor the children whose fathers were killed in the line of duty as policemen, firemen, soldiers. Nor the children who have lost fathers to disease, accidents or suicide. Our society must be careful not to assume these sons and daughters are damned."
Because: the supposed bad effects of not having a father in the house only show up when the father is an asshole. The kids tend to be assholes when the father who isn't there is also an asshole. Genetics, anyone?
"In the cases where the father is far from heroic – even abusive – his absence is also the absence of the chaos, anger, pain and disruption he would bring to his family....The reality is, many children are better off without their fathers.
...
“The notion that fathering is essential to children’s social and personality development seems to be a uniquely American preoccupation. Current research actually provides little support for …[sic] this popular conception of paternal essentiality.”
From one of the Wikipedia pages on Warhammer 40K:
"Though no discrimination on basis of color or gender exists in the Imperium, any divergence in political or religious beliefs, even slight, is often deemed nigh-heretical, and disagreement with such beliefs is a capital offense."
I tip my hat to the makers of the game. This is the modern, progressive, Democratic left. All diversity is welcome except diversity of thought, and diversity of thought will be punished with extreme prejudice.
Children raised by married parents do the best on just about every measure of wellbeing. Next, not far behind, are children whose parents were married but one of them died. Widows/widowers tend to have more family income and more social support. They're also people who were good at commitment, but unlucky. (At least, that's the theory.)
Children of divorced parents don't do as well, and children of never-married parents do the worst, by a large margin. Divorced fathers have much less involvement with their kids than married fathers, but much more than never-married fathers.
As for Peterson:
When my daughter was born, I realized I'd have to live with her for at least 18 years. I decided to raise her to be the sort of person I'd want to live with. This worked well for both of us. By not letting her do things that drove me crazy, I was able to give her the gift of a sane mother.
No "Dune" tag?
Gahrie said...
To be honest, I think you're the first person who has ever attempted to discredit the effects of fatherlessness.
I guess you don't get out much.
No need to be hostile. I don't think he meant in the world but on the blog.
As for that however, I would have to refer you to back to The Crack Emcee, who claimed to be a natural child of Charles Mingus the jazz musician, and spoke movingly of his experiences. Tough to say what was or would have been best for him.
I should say explicitly that he scorned the notion of fatherlessness as a root cause of (especially, black) societal dysfunction.
He opined that the marriages and fathers he did have (his troubled mother married several times in his life were not so much.
I would hate to misrepresent his views, so I suppose you could go to his blog, you can Bing for The Macho Response, or perhaps he's ghosting and will decide to pipe up here.
It must be said that both Althouse and Meade fairly doted on him, he certainly to my memory got less abuse than say Chuck does now, and it's hard to know why he went away. He is not banned. AFAIK. His act was more like TTR's than Chuck's although I guess he had his own idees fixes.
Some here want to tell their story, some here feel it's none of your goddamn business.
I remember a study that found boys do worse with step-fathers after divorce than un-replaced divorced fathers, but not so bad with step-mothers.
Wow - Inga and I are on the same page. Huh.
Back when my eldest boy was a baby, my niece was about three - we were over at my sis-in-laws house and niece was playing with my dog in the front yard. As time went by, the play was migrating down towards the street, so I asked niece to take dog and move the play up near the house. "Why?" "Because it's not safe down here" "Why?" "Because you are too close to the road and there are cars there" "Why?" "Because I am an adult and I am in charge. Move".
She looked at me, stunned. It turns out my sis-in-law had been indulging her in endless games of "why?". She was not prepared for my answer.
Regarding Jordan Peterson, I guess you could say I'm in a neutral corner; although I admit to being predisposed to like him, given that he seems disliked by "liberals:" i.e., The Stupidest People on Earth. But as they say, even a stopped clock, etc., etc. I've given a listen to some of his videos on YouTube, and while the guy seems impressive, I usually get bored and run over to MilfsLikeAnal.com or some other educational website. So I'd be curious to see why both people who like him and people who don't like him feel the way they do. And I mean relatively rational people, not the loons and the complete dolts. (I think you know who you are.) I do intend to read his bestseller, once it gets into the local public library and I can read it on the taxpayer's dime.
"My intense sci-fi dislike goes to Asimov's famous Foundation. Technocrat fascism."
I liked his I Robot books as a kid. I read Second Foundation, but didn't like it as much as his robot books.
Some parents obsess over small stuff.
Babies weaned at three months vs. seven months vs. 12 months. Allowing kids to eat sugar. Sleep training.
It's the big stuff that matters. Both parents, at home, healthy, not sick or dying, around for the long term. A safe, secure, supportive, reliable home environment. Steady, constant parenting. No economic or social chaos in the home. Calm.
“The notion that fathering is essential to children’s social and personality development seems to be a uniquely American preoccupation. Current research actually provides little support for …[sic] this popular conception of paternal essentiality.”
Am I the only person here that thinks this individual has some problems ?
No father ?
Divorced ?
My mother would always respond to our whines of, "That's not fair!", with, "Life doesn't have to be fair."
You want to have some fun and piss people off? The next time someone starts spouting the "children don't need fathers " bullshit...reply...Yeah! and they don't need mothers either!
People go apeshit.
William: He thinks deterministically, eg common sense. His views on religion, myth, behavior and mental health are based on cross-species evolutionary principals communicated down through the ages by humans via myths and mythological archetypes.
One of those principles is that liberal and conservative traits are both required to coexist for a healthy society to thrive and that ideology is a parasite that destroy the mythic narrative, and occupies the barren space. Ideological imbalance results in the mass murders facilitated by Stalin, Hitler, Mao, which is deeply rooted in Human nature.
You can't remember what you don't understand.
Maps of Meaning
Download to walkman and listen while doing yard work.
I loved Dune and the following books Frank Herbert wrote until his death. I have never really considered them Science Fiction- they are fantasy novels with more in common with Tolkien's work than they do with writers like Clarke and Asimov. I read his Herbert's son's continuation of the series he co-authored with Kevin Anderson, and I was less impressed especially by the last novel, but some of ones that filled in the back story of Dune were fairly well done- it was when the books picked up where Frank Herbert left off that the series started to falter.
I read his Herbert's son's continuation of the series he co-authored with Kevin Anderson, and I was less impressed especially by the last novel, but some of ones that filled in the back story of Dune were fairly well done- it was when the books picked up where Frank Herbert left off that the series started to falter.
I read one of those -- I think set in the generation before the events of Dune. I suppose it was serviceable enough as space opera, but I thought it was terrible, at least in comparison. One of the strengths of Dune was that Frank Herbert committed to his feudal future setting, and didn't just drop modern people with modern mores and modern prejudices (or modified slightly for polemical purpose) into his story -- he gave the characters their own value system, one that goes by largely unquestioned. No one questions, for example, whether it's right for them to have a taboo about artificial insemination: that's not the point of the story. No one questions whether it's right for them to have a taboo on machines made in the likeness of a human mind either. It's just part of the setting. In contrast, the characters in the one follow-on novel I read did not feel like they were embedded in that setting in the same way.
LOL at Michael K who is now insulting someone quoted in the NYT.
Howard said...
William: He thinks deterministically, eg common sense. His views on religion, myth, behavior and mental health are based on cross-species evolutionary principals communicated down through the ages by humans via myths and mythological archetypes.
Peterson claims that all psychologically healthy people are familiar with Bible stories, which is obviously nonsense.
"The Bible is a series of books written, edited and assembled over thousands of years. It contains the most influential stories of mankind. Knowledge of those stories is essential to a deep understanding of Western culture, which is in turn vital to proper psychological health (as human beings are cultural animals) and societal stability. These stories are neither history, as we commonly conceive it, nor empirical science. Instead, they are investigations into the structure of Being itself and calls to action within that Being."
I prefer Einstein's opinion of Bible Stories: "childish".
I doubt the story because (1) Most trucks are plastic and (2) ...the glass-topped "fragile" coffee table in the story has survived this kid for years? Riiiight.
My kids (who are mostly still kids) have played with metal trucks. Metal is pretty sturdy and some of us grew up with depression-era parents who saved e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g to be passed down. My parents still have a crib with super-wide spaces between the slats that would never pass the safety test today.
As for the glass table, it doesn't make me doubt the story itself. Just Peterson's choice of the word 'fragile.' Glass can be sturdier than you think, but the consequences of breaking it are still quite high.
God Emperor of Dune is not a lesser sequel. It is my favorite book in the Dune series, and one that I re-read every few years. Although it is a shame that Herbert never finished the Dune series, even with the unresolved cliffhanger ending, the books from God Emperor to Chapterhouse are far more compelling than the original Dune and its immediate sequels.
I tried reading a few of the cashgrab sequels/prequels that a Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson wrote. They are such abominations that the Bene Gesserit would have killed them at birth.
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