Easter Islanders themselves aren’t thrilled about being reduced to a metaphor. They rightly feel great pride in their earlier history and see the collapse as more complex and uncertain.And yet he fully intends to step on that pride and offer up Easter Island as "A Parable of Self-Destruction." Why go there if you only want the metaphor/parable version of the place anyway? I'm asking a question that encapsulates the message of "How to Talk About Places You've Never Been: On the Importance of Armchair Travel," by Pierre Bayard.
But Kristof did go there:
I came to Easter Island while leading a tour for The New York Times Company, and those of us in the group were staggered by the statues — but also by the reminder of the risks when a people damages the environment that sustains it.How on earth — a place we've all been — did Nicholas Kristof think he could get away with that sanctimony?! DO NOT LECTURE US! Let your example come first, and then you can talk. You flew to Easter Island — you led a tour, enticing others to fly to Easter Island — so obviously, you think nothing of your carbon footprint or the carbon footprint of all those other people who jetted out there with you. When your actions are so radically different from your words, I don't believe your words. The depredations of global warming may be coming, but I don't believe that you believe it.
That brings us to climate change, to the chemical processes we are now triggering whose outcomes we can’t fully predict. The consequences may be a transformed planet with rising waters and hotter weather, dying coral reefs and more acidic oceans. We fear for the ocean food chain and worry about feedback loops that will irreversibly accelerate this process, yet still we act like Easter Islanders hacking down their trees....
Yes, I know I have alternatives. It's possible that Kristof is an idiot, incapable of noticing or understanding the radical disconnect between his words and his actions. And it's possible that Kristof is a raging elitist, who thinks that he and his close associates needn't stoop to the hard work of self-limitation that he feels fully empowered to impose on others and who thinks that all the people whose opinion matters will share this despicable elitism.
IN THE COMMENTS: JPS said...
"so obviously, you think nothing of your carbon footprint....When your actions are so radically different from your words, I don't believe your words."
It's like this:
Trump, Bjorn Lomberg or other AGW semi-skeptics: "Why should we limit our use of energy? It won't make the slightest bit of difference as long as India, China and everyone else go on burning all the fossil fuels they want!
Concerned AGW believer: "This is the problem! You are the reason we're not making any progress toward averting this obvious disaster!"
______
AGW semi-skeptic: "Wow, look at you, lecturing us all about our carbon footprints while you jet all over the world."
Concerned AGW believer: "Look, come on. If I cut out everything I do, it wouldn't make any difference as long as you're all free to go on burning fossil fuels like it doesn't matter."
পোস্টগুলি
৬৮টি মন্তব্য:
He flew on Easter Airlines. The wings of rabbit.
Christmas on Easter Island
http://bizarro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/bizarro-12-25-17.jpg
Can’t Kristoff be both an idiot and a raging elitist? Aim for the stars!
Nobody would be more impressed if he lived the life of a hermit. Climate change has been going back and forth for aeons and there's nothing that says we're not on a normal swing. Lifestyle doesn't matter to the fact.
There's no adult peer review in climate science. It's not science.
By staying at Althouse instead of clicking through to NYT, I think I encapsulated the idea here, and perhaps paid a micro-favor to the environment too. -willie
"so obviously, you think nothing of your carbon footprint....When your actions are so radically different from your words, I don't believe your words."
It's like this:
Trump, Bjorn Lomberg or other AGW semi-skeptics: "Why should we limit our use of energy? It won't make the slightest bit of difference as long as India, China and everyone else go on burning all the fossil fuels they want!
Concerned AGW believer: "This is the problem! You are the reason we're not making any progress toward averting this obvious disaster!"
______
AGW semi-skeptic: "Wow, look at you, lecturing us all about our carbon footprints while you jet all over the world."
Concerned AGW believer: "Look, come on. If I cut out everything I do, it wouldn't make any difference as long as you're all free to go on burning fossil fuels like it doesn't matter."
That’s a new take on the “your mom” joke.
I've read his gook for too many years now. He is both a raging elitist and an idiot. It's not a good way to go through life, unless you live in NYC. By the way, New Yorkers used to be great. WTF ever happened to real New Yorkers?
@JPS, Word
“whose outcomes we can’t fully predict.” wrote the guy who works for the NYT that was certain Hillary was going to win.
I saw somewhere that the NYT trio cost big six figures. The failing NYT is branching into more profitable business lines.
Next up: Friedman trip to the Artic to look at the ice. Gourmet chef to accompany trip.
NYT trip. Not trio.
He writes the last gasps of a dying Big Lie. It once made us so excited: The Industrial Revolution that created wealth using coal and oil running machinery to raise man's standards of living 1000x could be taken hostage by a Global Big Brother UN using fake science.And the elites could proudly purify the Planet for Gaia using cleansing methods from old Auschwitz plans.
Now it has all gone away. And it only gets colder and colder.No TPP. No Paris Climate Accords. No confiscation of weapons from the Yankee Deplorables...Arrrrgh!
Good description of Diamond's Easter Island work as pop science. One example of anthropologists pushing back: https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/02/20/truth-about-ecofable-easter-island-94257/
Not that it matters to Kristof. Isn't it about time for him to revisit North Korea?
He starts with, we are changing the planet and no one knows what the future holds, then goes on to very specifically tell you what exactly is going to happen. the contradiction is enough to convince me he knows of what he speaks
"It's possible that Kristin is an idiot." Althouse master of the understatement.
Kristof is some world class ignorant: It took me 2-3 seconds to verify my hunch that the oceans are basic, pH 8.1. So, "...and more acidic oceans" becomes nonsense when they would have to become 10 times more acidic to get to neutrality. And yes, becoming less basic is becoming more acidic, but in standard English, "more acidic" implies that it is already acidic and becoming more so.
As the InstaPundit has so aptly put it, "I'll believe it's a crisis when the people claiming it's a crisis start acting like it's a crisis."
I consider Trump's pulling out of the Paris agreement one of his biggest accomplishments. Exposing and defeating the CAGW scam is one of this century's biggest challenges.
The tipping point might be the coming collapse of Tesla's stock.
@dbp, the difficulty is that "less basic" has a multitude of meanings.
A better phrase is that the pH of the ocean is decreasing. But then journalists would have to understand (and explain!) pH, and that's not going to happen.
Jared Diamond is a bit of a joker.
"in mental ability, New Guineans are probably genetically superior to Westerners". "Modern ‘Stone Age’ peoples are on the average probably more intelligent, not less intelligent, than industrialized peoples."
Cuz you have to be real smart to survive in the wild. Smart like a deer or a skunk or a coyote or a lizard.
I doubt the deforestation, the making of stone heads and the cannibalism were all the result of free market capitalism at work. I bet they had a group of leaders who thought they were special calling for sacrifices and making grand plans.
Leftist carbon doesn't harm the environment. It explains so much of their behavior.
The problem goes back to the Industrial Revolution. Money has fallen into the wrong hands.
Larry J and Glenn beat me....
I went to Easter Island two years ago, and an anthropologist from the Universidad de Chile working there said that Jared Diamond's theories about the collapse of the island's culture were full of crap, and a couple of islanders also took issue with Diamond. I guess it would be fair to say that Diamond's views do not represent a consensus. The gist of the criticism was that Diamond distorted Easter Island's history to fit the theme of his book better.
But then journalists would have to understand (and explain!) pH, and that's not going to happen.
I was reared on a working farm, was with dad when he talked to Coop guy about his soil test, and listened when liming recommendations were made. Until I retired after 40 years of being that Coop guy, I have talked about pH all most daily. My experience is, pH is the most misunderstood chemical reaction people deal with. It is also the very 1st area scammers go after when attempting to sell to farmers. Mainly because there are so many different places to prostitute science and reach seemingly logical conclusions. Maybe exactly why the greenies go there so often.
To be fair, Diamond was mostly just relating the Standard Model that had developed for explaining Easter Island. This sort of thing happens a lot in anthropology/archaeology. The idea, for example, that the Maya were a peaceful bunch of astronomer-priests came out of the whole Noble Savage doctrine in vogue when the Maya were being brought to European light -- even though there were numerous pictorial representations of Maya brutality.
Then when another example of eco-catastrophe was needed, the Maya were once again used as an example of deforestation and collapse.
Don't believe too much of what anthropologists or archaeologists have to say. I know this is especially true since the late 1980s, but all the social sciences are infected with politics and have been from the beginning.
"obviously, you think nothing of your carbon footprint or the carbon footprint of all those other people who jetted out there with you"
Save yourself time and trouble: progs don't believe their own BS.
What they do believe is that the anointed have the right to lord it over us. By any means necessary.
Why didn't he go Haiti. Its closer to NYC and has a deforestation legacy.
I guess its not as glamorous as Easter Island?
Why didn't he go Haiti. Its closer to NYC and has a deforestation legacy.
He may have heard whispers that it's a shithole ( Not something one should say out loud ).
1) Concerned AGW believers think that burning fossil fuels is imperative when the project is the elimination of freedom to burn fossil fuel.
2) The Left thinks its inherent intelligence enables them to own -and control- the twist of irony.
3) Taleb’s IYI.
4) If you love nature, stay the hell away.
"Easter Islanders themselves aren’t thrilled about being reduced to a metaphor. "
BUT, the metaphor keeps the tourists coming, and tourism is mostly what supports contemporary Easter Islanders. The population of Easter Island is just a few thousand; few communities that small are known practically everywhere in the world.
Of course, nothing seems to so strongly induce contempt as economic dependence. Do natives always ridicule and despise tourists, or only when they're heavily dependent on tourism)?
"The flesh of your mother sticks between my teeth."
Modern version: That dent on my Tesla is where I hit your mother at the bus stop.
Some time ago, an engineer of the Kelly Johnson, Chuck Yeager class, skeptics all, asked me, "what if burning that last ton of carbon that pushed over the edge to a Venus, or using that last bit of our natural resources, or beautiful parkland provides us the means to save at least some of us? And not burning it condemns us all”? I know geoengineering is a sacrilege and Holland should not exist nor undersea cities, but it gave me pause. Since some of the damage can be mitigated. Virtual reality for all.
Should we risk burning the last ton of coal, that might save us from some extinction level event? AGW or not? Vice the unknowable. "Behind door number three”. I could not answer the question, because he reminded me that throughout history wealth, smarts and power under an individual’s control have been key to surviving catastrophes, hurricanes, flooding, earthquakes, famines, plagues, global war, which give some the ability to run away, so you should spare no resource today to insure individuals are as powerful and wealthy as they can be so at least some have a chance to survive and even that’s not guaranteed. The ultimate act of love, preparing to sacrifice all for one.
"Why didn't he go Haiti. Its closer to NYC and has a deforestation legacy.
"I guess its not as glamorous as Easter Island?"
Because the original inhabitants of Easter Island died out due to having exhausted their island's natural resources. He intended this to be an educational field trip.
Maybe it’s also an ad for an eco-tourism outfit, and a pitch for Diamond’s book, and a pitch for Kristoff’s book, AND they pass around a collection plate at The NY Times lecture series?
Funded also by Big Wind, Big Solar, Tesla, The Dept. Of Interior...the taxpayer?
AND some upcoming some eco-artists, politicians and documentary filmmakers sell slick tchotchkes in the lobby?
AND some crusty old hippies sell T-Shirts in the parking lot?
Namaste.
I'm not going to worry about climate change now that I've learned the Rothschilds control the weather.
Concerned AGW believer: "Look, come on. If I cut out everything I do, it wouldn't make any difference as long as you're all free to go on burning fossil fuels like it doesn't matter."
The Mel Brooks reply
https://youtu.be/IF2RYhNhBdw
Concerned AGW believer: "In other words, I'm not all that into my bullshit."
"The flesh of your mother sticks between my teeth"= Your mom is tough as an old shoe? I don't get the insult, something lost in translation (or digestion).
Think of Kristoff as Napoleon from Animal Farm and you will understand him perfectly.
The idea that my contribution is insignificant while controlling everyone else’s is what’s needed is great logic. Obviously not someone who’s done a 4th Step Inventory.
I believe the old Easter Island narrative recounted by Kristof has been undergoing revision. Perhaps he would have been better served to stay home and do some research?
An Eater Island compliment: "Your mother was great with fava beans and Chianti!"
Comrade LLR said, "I believe the old Easter Island narrative recounted by Kristof has been undergoing revision. Perhaps he would have been better served to stay home and do some research?"
Looks like Cookie didn't get that memo, either.
Civilization did not cause global warming....global warming caused civilization.
The Earth is currently in an ice age, called the Quaternary. it began about 2.5 million years ago.
Modern man first appeared around 300,000 years ago. (It used to be 200,000 years ago, but recent discoveries has pushed the date back)
For about 295,000 years man wandered around in small tribes of hunter-gatherers picking lice off of each other.
Around 12,000 to 10,000 years ago, the Earth began to warm. This was the beginning of an interglacial called the Holocene. The Holocene is still active today.
Around 10,000 years ago, as the Earth began to warm, agriculture began. This led to surplus, which led to specialization, which led to civilization. History began around 5,000 years ago.
That's an example of an insult from cannibalism days on Easter Island, brought to us by NYT columnist Nicholas Kristof, who flew all the way to Easter Island to be there to recount the history of Easter Island, which anyone can read without actually going there. Big statues of heads, long-ago deforestation wrecking its capacity to support the people who were advanced enough to make those big-head statues... you know the story. It's not news. Indeed, Kristof serves up readymade quotes from Jared Diamond pop-science book “Collapse” (2005).
The science is settled! Oh wait….
As others have pointed out above, it’s far from settled. Here’s more on the present status of this “narrative” from a piece last fall in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology (quoting…):
Introduction
Rapa Nui (Easter Island, Chile) is frequently used as an exemplar of human social competition and an avoidable ecological disaster, in which rapid destruction of the native palm forest had devastating consequences for the island's environment and human population (e.g., Diamond, 2005).
Recent archaeological research has brought such Malthusian claims into question: the arrival of the Pacific rat (Rattus exulans) shortly after the island's colonization may have extensively contributed to the palm forest's demise (Hunt, 2007) and with the use of fire the island was transformed into an agricultural landscape (Hunt & Lipo, 2006).
Revised chronologies indicate settlement of Rapa Nui centuries later than previously supposed, with evidence for a more balanced use of the environment and a greater degree of human adaptability to a changing ecosystem than the “ecocide” model purports (Hunt & Lipo, 2006; Stevenson et al., 2015). […]
Conclusions
Our results of carbon and nitrogen isotopic analysis of individual amino acids show that in our samples, seafood made up about half of the protein in human diets, which is considerably higher than previous estimates based on bulk data with similar isotopic compositions. Our estimates are consistent across four independent modelling approaches. Additionally, we show that rats are unlikely to have made up a significant source of human dietary protein. These results may demonstrate a more balanced subsistence strategy, which is less likely to have placed unnecessary strain on natural terrestrial resources. […]
Significantly, our nitrogen isotopic results also suggest cultivation of agricultural crops in lithic mulch gardens and manavai, as documented in the archaeological record, was the source of the high δ15N values observed in prehistoric human remains. This is further supported by our analysis of ancient and modern soils from both agricultural and noncultivated contexts. […]
Our results point to concerted efforts to manipulate agricultural soils, and suggest the prehistoric Rapa Nui population had extensive knowledge of how to overcome poor soil fertility, improve environmental conditions, and create a sustainable food supply. These activities demonstrate considerable adaptation and resilience to environmental challenges — a finding that is inconsistent with an “ecocide” narrative.
(/unQuote)
(Catrine L. Jarman, et al., “Diet of the prehistoric population of Rapa Nui (Easter Island, Chile) shows environmental adaptation and resilience,” American Journal of Physical Anthropology, Vol. 164, Issue no. 2 (October 2017), pp. 343-361. First published: 30 June 2017.)
So, what did cause the collapse of Easter Island society?
Be brief, please. In your own words. No lengthy quotes. *smile face*
Hypocrites writing in The NYTimes- this is my shocked face.
"'The flesh of your mother sticks between my teeth;'= Your mom is tough as an old shoe? I don't get the insult, something lost in translation (or digestion).
It undoubtedly means something like, "Your mother tastes like shit!"
That would hurt!
We are people talking about catbon as if it were the problem?
Catbon isn't even the alleged problem. Carbon is a solid lump. Carbon is diamonds, graphite, coal.
The alleged greenhouse GAS is carbon dioxide. Not carbon.
Stop the lying.
John Henry
It undoubtedly means something like, "Your mother tastes like shit!"
You are what you eat.
Ann, as proprietor here you have an ethical responsibility to point out the "carbon" bullshit.
At the very least not to do it yourself. If you mean the gas, say co2. Don't say carbon unless you mean the mineral.
Think of the children!
Many of us look up to you as a role model.
John Henry
Re pH:
For those who think lowpH is a good thing, try washing your hair with oven cleaner (caustic soda) sometime.
Let me know how that works out for ya.
John Henry
From other reporting it seems the cost of this NYT "tour" is $135,000 per person. Virtue signaling is getting ever more expensive?
My father used to be active in the Sierra Club when they were largely a hiking club interested in preserving the Sierra Nevada for use by the public. He left when he discovered that they were more interested in preserving the Sierra from use by the public. It's the same with today's environmentalists. They don't want to lower their impact. They want you to lower your impact so they can continue living large.
Roughcoat, best I can remember, Easter Island collapsed due to French explorers discovering the island. They captured some of the residents for use as slaves, and disease made a significant dent in the survivors.
"The flesh of your mother sticks between my teeth."
There's a cunnilingus joke in there somewhere.
Damned if I can find it.
Where's Laslo?
I had your mother over for dinner last night. She was delicious.
"Because the original inhabitants of Easter Island died out due to having exhausted their island's natural resources. He intended this to be an educational field trip."
1. I don't think the story is accurate (as Kristof basically admits, even though he likes it as a "parable").
2. You don't see the history when you travel to a place. You only see the present. If you want to "see" the history, you need to read. Some people like to read the history and go to a place to get an emotional buzz over the notion of being there where the things I heard of happened. It's a feat of imagination for people who have imagination but only an impoverished imagination.
Modern humans spent about 290,000 of our 300,000 years of existence as mostly nomadic hunter-gatherers. Exploration and travel is instinctual for us.
Interesting that climate change alarmists don't get how their words and actions don't mesh well. I guess when your science is bad, they'll resort to anything to prop up their nonsense.
https://resurrectedsite.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/climate-change/
It's funny how long a half-life these Just So stories have. Diamond's book is from 2005, and I think I've been reading refutations ever since then. There are so many things that are interesting about the Polynesians -- read about their methods of navigation sometime -- but somehow the only thing people remember is the Easter Island thing.
It undoubtedly means something like, "Your mother tastes like shit!"
You're doing it wrong.
@dbp, the difficulty is that "less basic" has a multitude of meanings.
If you’re worried about ambiguity, just say “less alkaline”.
For those who think lowpH is a good thing, try washing your hair with oven cleaner (caustic soda) sometime.
You mean, high pH. But true, you wouldn’t to wash your hair with either that nor hydrochloric acid, it’s opposite number. (Though the two together can make food yummier.)
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