I wrote, a month ago, when I was subjected to 20 minutes of movie trailers, 4 of which I embedded in that post, including one for "Red Sparrow."
Today, I'm seeing — via Drudge — "Jennifer Lawrence flounders in atrocious 'RED SPARROW'..." (NY Post):
The film’s unquestionable high point is Lawrence’s character bellowing the accusing line in her Boris-and-Natasha accent: “You sent me to whore school!”
Other than this “Showgirls”-esque howler and Mary-Louise Parker’s amusing turn as a drunk, corrupt American senator’s aide, there’s little to recommend “Red Sparrow” — a throwback to old Hollywood in its belief that gratuitous rape and violence are the best way to create a heroine with backbone....
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190 comments:
Well there aren't really a lot of parts for women if you're doing a narrative.
Lawrence had to go to school to learn how to be a whore?
The usual narrative is some guy convincing some girl whose mind is made of mush that he'd be a good mate.
If you feature the girl it's a plot about a mind of mush dealing with something, and it's soap opera.
If you make the girl a man then it's a film about how unusual it is that a mere woman is able to do what would be unremarkable in a man.
Violence and explosions cover the narrative gaps that results.
Sally Fields, Dame Judy Densch, Meryl Streep, Frances McDormand, Julia Roberts, Geena Davis, Susan Sarandon, Sandra Bulloch, Kathy Bates, Clair Danes, Shirley McClaine and many others were unavailable for comment.
If Red Sparrow flops, that will give Jennifer more time to fix our Democracy for us.
It takes a middle school drop-out to accomplish that task, apparently.
I find the reviews to be too political.
Jennifer Lawrence was a hero of the left and Democrats not too long ago.
Now she has come out and backtracked. Said it's wrong to mock Trump supporters and Hollywood actors should be quiet. She said she is from Kentucky and people there don't want to hear her politics they just want to watch her movies.
I thought this was rather mature of her.
But it's not going to win her any friends in Hollywood.
Darn, I was looking forward to see Ms. Lawrence in Red Swallow.
I've been misinformed.....
I watched 8 action films (one DVD case) all of which were 5-minute bail-out awful. Violence and explosions started covering immediately.
One involving a spaceship with an all-woman crew didn't even seem to be leading to nude scenes, or anyway I wasn't going to wait.
Red Swallow, I'll probably buy it unless the plot summary suggests it's awful. People miss stuff.
Paying to sit through 20 minutes of movie trailers is enabling the evil unless you start yelling and throwing stuff at the screen.
Whore school?
I'm going!
Bloody sexist Russians. Thanks to #MeToo, the CIA now trains its agents to only seduce foreigners when they have first made crystal clear the true motivation for the seduction and obtained a full, informed consent.
One of those babies in the eight was so awful that it was blurbed as a cult classic.
I've heard that Whore School has excellent extension programs and a fantastic alumni network. And of course graduating ensures matriculation into the prestigious Whore University.
Cult classic means really bad acting as well as low budget.
Tough men need tough women. Until recently the economy of the American West was cattle, mining and timber being done by tough male work force in camps 6+ days a week, and then finding tough women to take their money. Whore's toughness is still a common trait among that culture. Lonesome Dove is the reality there.
But if you want the gentle Lady type full of grace, find a southerner.
More specifically, she says. “The Democrats made a huge mistake by chastising the Trump supporters, and that was disgusting to me. Of course they’re not going to vote for Hillary Clinton; they’re going to vote for Donald Trump. You laughed at them when their plight is very real.”
Honestly, the world would be a lot more peaceful if more women were cheerful, willing, and professionally trained as fellatrices.
I'd favor aggressive middle-aged district attorney and not quite politically correct detective flicks, if you want women taken seriously.
She gets to be womanishly motivated and male-clever, and he gets to convince her he's part of her story.
No explosions necessary.
“You sent me to whore school!”
I can tell.
If there was a gunmen at the Broward County Whore School, you better believe deputies would have run in sooner.
In 5je book Parker was the senator, who was also the mole, a California version of giilebrand, this will probably discourage the adapting of Alex drydens work. Which is more on point.
The book is great. I plan on seeing the movie this weekend.
"The Kremlin's Candidate" was just published. The perfect spy novel for the time. And a "Sophie's Choice" aspect to the plot.
One involving a spaceship with an all-woman crew didn't even seem to be leading to nude scenes, or anyway I wasn't going to wait.
This made me laugh in my office.
First time I ever saw Jennifer Lawrence was in 'Winter's Bone'.
She was terrific.
The film’s unquestionable high point is Lawrence’s character bellowing the accusing line in her Boris-and-Natasha accent: “You sent me to whore school!”
In other words, the 'strong woman' has no agency. She is a victim.
Rape and violence is not Old Hollywood. That's Weinstein/Tarantino Hollywood.
To get our attention at the movies, they gave us sex and violence.
Now, they've merged the two, so we get violent chicks, fighting, shooting, avenging and blowing up stuff.
But, I reckon, Jennifer Lawrence, even as a Russian spy, is still hot, so life goes on.
Speaking of Russian spies, we should have a "To Kill the Mocking Bird" movie, where an Atticus Finch-type lawyer, bravely defends the 13 indicted Russian Trolls.
I call it Joss Wheedon feminism. I've never been convinced that giving your female characters big guns and/or superpowers and letting them kick the stuffing out of the guys who used to beat you up in high school really counts as "feminism" per se.
Not that I haven't enjoyed several Joss Wheedon productions.
What doesn't break you may make you stronger.
That said, Hollywood is in compliance with the Pro-Choice philosophy, with a "superheroine" mindset that achieves superhuman feats, or, in the case of select-child, transhuman rites.
Women may want to reevaluate what feminists have sold them. The wicked solutions, including warlock trials and Planned Parenthood, have progressive consequences.
Male chauvinists like their women strong, the better to break them. Female chauvinists, despite gender differences from their male counterparts, seem to share the same orientation.
It's a bad review, but it definitely made me want to see the movie. I have no strong objections to sex and nudity, especially when they involve Jennifer Lawrence. I do have some qualms about flaying, however. Flaying scenes should be filmed with disrection and should only be used to advance the plot. I'm opposed to gratuitous flaying scenes.
She could teach in whore school.
One problem with fictional tales of adventure is that the real ones quite rarely have a female "lead". Real world episodes of danger and violence have women as victims, usually, and when they aren't their role is not visually spectacular. Not even the parts with sex, as the real thing (rape, or other sexual abuse) is likely more miserable than tittilating.
So violent, sexy women are almost as much a fantasy element as dragons and fairies.
Interestingly, "warrior women" are a common trope in adventure tales going very far back. The first popular bestsellers in the age of mass-produced, printed books pretty much all had them - Ariostos "Orlando Furioso" had Bradamante, a most unlikely Muslim warrior-girl. The rest of chivalric fantasy was loaded with them. "Esplandian" had a whole tribe. Even fanfic like Balagtas' "Florante at Laura" had them.
You sent me to whore school!
"Hey! It's a living!"
Well, when the plot is crap, the execution of the story is crap, the acting is crap and the effects are crap, all that is really left as a draw is T and A.
See Spartacus: Blood in the Sand. I hope Ms Lawrence makes those babies bounce.
But I shall not be seeing it because I abhor her
Acting
And
Politics
She objected to the mockery of her townsfolk, not the Democratic agenda. She just wants them there morons to vote proper.
Interestingly, "warrior women" are a common trope in adventure tales going very far back.
Herodotus had one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_I_of_Caria
Bob Boyd: First time I ever saw Jennifer Lawrence was in 'Winter's Bone'.
She was terrific.
First time I ever saw Jennifer Lawrence was in an episode of "Monk". She was in it for all of ten seconds, and was forgettable, to the point that it was only recently that I learned she had been in "Monk".
Link
...a throwback to old Hollywood...
You mean last week?
I love short time horizons.
If the movies sucks, it will be a pity because I liked the book.
The industry that has done more than any other to promote sex, violence, sexual violence and guns is lecturing the rest of us. Self-awareness deficit anyone?
At least Sara Stewart is having fun writing that pan.
But then there's this:
When Dominika fends off a near-rape by one of her classmates, she’s punished for it by having to strip naked and re-enact the scene in front of a class.
In America this is Dominika's degree project.
Whore school is just one of many programs at the school of hard knocks, or maybe vise versa. I never attended either.
It happens in all sorts of media. I stopped reading the comic series Young Avengers when they did a backstory for my favorite character that changed her from an admirer of superheroes who trained in Batman-like skills to a rape victim who trained obsessively for what amounted to self-therapeutic reasons; by that time it was already a cliché, and a less interesting one.
When Dominika fends off a near-rape by one of her classmates, she’s punished for it by having to strip naked and re-enact the scene in front of a class.
Yeah, I know what you're thinking. A classic cheap, Hollywood gimmick to show off the boobs of a famous actress, totally unrelated to the plot, totally unnecessary for the story-line, a gratuitous, exploitative effort to goose the suspense, titillate the mostly young male movie audience, and boost the buzz and box office sales.
Well, let me tell you Buster -- that's not how true artistry works!
And remember Clint's Oscar winner, The Unforgiven. It is about whores hiring a hit man to get justice. And they got Clint's bet all time character.
I think Jennifer Lawrence had to do a movie in which she had an accent so she could lay claim to being the next Meryl Streep. Or maybe she already was.
The problem for Hollywood is that it really worked because of the casting couch, not in spite of it. Getting rid of the casting couch and installing a bunch of female directors and studio heads just takes away the glamour of it all. There are lots of talented women, of course, but the art that comes out of Hollywood is going to be different. The casting couch is how and why Hollywood earned its mythos - creative, driven men and beautiful women.
Hollywood sold sex and art - it was the nexus of sex, art, and money. That's glamourous.
After #metoo, Hollywood can't be about anything more than money. Not art, sex, and money. Just money.
I work in finance and I see that's where Hollywood is headed. Corporate moneygrabbing. There is glamour around money of course, and there's attention that comes from attractive women interested in money (in New York there's an event held every so often called "fashion meets finance", which hooks bankers up with models), but it's just so corporate and transactional.
Don't get me wrong, Hollywood delenda est, but I wish it were destroyed because of its misuse of power to push crappy politics, not because of the political correctness borg.
If you think movies are bad now. Just wait.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a spy novel ... not even James Bond, other than a few pages that were considered sexually interesting circa 1965.
Other than the first 5 Bond movies, I can’t think of ever seeing a spy movie. Or I guess I saw “True Lies.” Does “The Third Man” count?
I’m just not interested in complicated plots with people rushing around over the abstract idea of the world going to hell.
I work in finance and I see that's where Hollywood is headed. Corporate moneygrabbing.
It's been that way since the studio system ended. Those old Jewish peddlers' sons knew how to make a product that people wanted to buy.
The past 25 years most movies have been made for the other Hollywood types to admire.
Now, they are down to cartoons.
"I’m just not interested in complicated plots with people rushing around over the abstract idea of the world going to hell."
You think contemporary politics is uninteresting then?
"You sent me to whore school!”
You're welcome!
“You sent me to whore school!”
What's so ridiculous about that? I had a girlfriend say that to me once...but she was thanking me!
Check out the "Modesty Blaise" novels then -- likable people in small-scale action adventure, but often doing something as a personal favor for British Intelligence.
It's been that way since the studio system ended. Those old Jewish peddlers' sons knew how to make a product that people wanted to buy.
I don't disagree that it's even more corporate now than it was even 10-15 years ago, but #metoo has broken the camel's back. The movies are dead.
Once computer animation is good enough and processing power cheap enough that a director and a few talented graphic artists can put the director's vision on the screen without need for actors, cameras, etc., the art part may come back. It's going to take the complete destruction of Hollywood to make it glamorous again.
Ann brought up a valid complaint. When I now consider going to a movie, I think: pay $18 to sit through 20 minutes of commercials. Not bloody likely.
Once computer animation is good enough
It's good enough. Except for the voices, which still have to be human actors.
pay $18 to sit through 20 minutes of commercials
You know there's no penalty for coming in 20 minutes "late"?
Does J-Law use a gun in the movie? Does she use it safely, as one who took seriously their NRA training would? Are other characters careless and casual about their gun use?
Hollywood has many fetishes, but their rape and gun obessions are probably the most corrosive to polite society, the kind we used to aspire to before #resist became the watchword (replacing, of course, #racist from the prior eight years) upon Trump's election.
Shows like JAG tried to make the case for women in combat and actually did the reverse.
Most of the assaulted females on L&O SVU and other crime shows are turned into spineless emotional basket cases--even the ones who were unconscious, the "tough" policewomen, and ones from months or years before. It encourages histrionics for smaller problems.
I’m just not interested in complicated plots with people rushing around over the abstract idea of the world going to hell.
Tired of reality? I understand.
The Unforgiven. It is about whores hiring a hit man to get justice.
When the Sheriff disarmed the town to make it safe, a man from out of town comes in and kills everyone who were making the whores lives difficult.
In the end, the victim watches the stranger ride off, and wonders who got the better deal. The dead people or the whores.
Hopefully the next sheriff didn't disarm everyone, so they might have a chance. It was silly to have a saloon full of grown men, and only the cops had guns, but were without good aim.
From Rotten Tomatoes: "Dominika Egorova is many things. A devoted daughter determined to protect her mother at all costs. A prima ballerina whose ferocity has pushed her body and mind to the absolute limit. A master of seductive and manipulative combat. When she suffers a career-ending injury, Dominika and her mother are facing a bleak and uncertain future. That is why she finds herself manipulated into becoming the newest recruit for Sparrow School, a secret intelligence service that trains exceptional young people like her to use their bodies and minds as weapons."
This reminds me so much of being in junior high and avidly reading the words on the back covers of dime store novels with extremely lurid fronts. Or maybe I was ferociously reading the seductive text paired with manipulative and yet exceptional front covers.
Ferocity!
These things fall apart when they use weak women in strong roles. There was no question in the original "Girl with the Dragon Tatoo", that actress is one tough chick. A real shield maiden. The American version, meh
"Hollywood is sick. Evil. Corrupting our soul."
Are you not entertained?
" Does she use it safely, as one who took seriously their NRA training would?"
Maybe she uses it as a Russian would.
Though I guess maybe you have to be a "Professional Russian"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8
Add she graduated with "Sum cum louder" honors!
I really liked "La Femme Nikita".
I'll never understand why Hollywood had to have an American remake, especially when they could have just overdubbed it (which I think they did anyway).
Anyway, Anne Parillaud was hot, strong female character, violent and sexual. Bridget Fonda... meh...
Isn't that kind of Black Widow's entire backstory?
Personally, I am attracted to things, places and websites that have strong female characters at the center and where [almost] everything is paranoid, violent, and sexual.
Ann, not sure if its a spy film, but Peacemaker (with Clooney and Kidman) is an under-rated classic. Also, Day of the Jackal (the original not, god forbid, the remake with Bruce Willis) is a fantastic spy film.
There may actually have been - or still be - a "whore school".
The old Soviet block intelligence agencies were heavy users of "honey traps" after all. Odds are this is still a common tactic.
And as for fighting, spy work is almost entirely non-violent. Its about quietly collecting information, and violence attracts attention. There were always a bunch of these characters working as expat executives in US businesses in Asia, the fellows who were never in the office and did not seem to do much of the company business.
There is a use for James Bond style characters, but that's generally for filibustering, that is, organizing coups, revolts, guerrillas and the like. Both the US and Russia (and Britain, France, etc.) doubtless have quite a few of these fellows in Syria.
Assassins are something else again.
There has been a deep strain of something, maybe not exactly misogyny but certainly a disrespect for women as fully capable agents, permeating Hollywood for several decades. Maybe because for a long time (and still, to a degree). the target audience for big-budget films has been adolescent and early-20s males?
In any case I am reminded of a semi-serious joke from the 1960s or 1970s about how haute couture often made the women look awful, and it was all a big joke by the male homosexual fashion designers.
But, yeah. Some smaller budget and indie films do OK, but the big budget stuff really struggles to deal with female characters, unless based on books that have established the female character in a way that the movie cannot corrupt without alienating the target audience--like Hermione Granger in Harry Potter or Katniss Everdeen in Hunger Games.
(Parenthetically, it appears that Jennifer Lawrence might think that because she played a strong, smart woman in Hunger Games, she is actually strong and smart, which in her real life she shows every sign of NOT being.)
Women having agency doesn't mean they get male roles. That would be feminism's mistake.
Ask instead what feminine agency looks like.
Anthony said...
Isn't that kind of Black Widow's entire backstory?
While neither may be entirely original, at least one of them sounds like a total rip-off at this point.
Anne Parillaud was much more plausibly dangerous than Bridget Fonda.
The gun was very silly though. What a hand-cannon.
The Peacemaker has Kidman going mushy, which is a script flaw.
What's so ridiculous about that? I had a girlfriend say that to me once...but she was thanking me!
There is apparently a Cookie we don't really know.
"Ask instead what feminine agency looks like."
This -
"The Crucible" - Yay Panlilio $3.99 on Kindle
The Guard is very good. Black guy foil, showing genuine virtue in seeing the good points of the hero. No women, but the same could be done with a woman.
I think Donald Trump went to whore school. No, wait...it was Wharton School.
Like I say they should have chisrn elena satine or even Eva green, they play more femme tale from their Georgian and French background.
The adaptation from Jason Matthews is very poor, because it leaves out dominikas gift of synestethia, reading the auroras if her sujects
Laws of Attraction, Pierce Brosnan and Julianne Moore, is good except Moore should have been scripted as witty as Brosnan instead of being one down all the time.
I tell you automistake, I wonder who was the script doctor thete
Two Weeks Notice has Hugh Grant and Sandra Bullock equally witty. Each characterizes the other, in a deleted scene, as funny in a sort of unintentional way.
Still he has to win her over so her chemical calculation finds him in her story, against her politics.
I really liked "La Femme Nikita".
The original film is outstanding but Point of No Return (the American remake with Bridget Fonda) wasn’t half-bad. I enjoyed it more for Gabriel Byrne, Miguel Ferrer and Harvey Keitel though. The first television adaptation that they did starring Petra Wilson was pretty much appointment television in my college dorm. The remake that the CW did starring Maggie Q wasn’t as good but still managed to be entertaining.
Ann, not sure if its a spy film, but Peacemaker (with Clooney and Kidman) is an under-rated classic.
This. I remember renting it from Blockbuster when it came out and my girlfriend and I were surprised that they avoided the trope of having the male and female leads fall in love with each other (there may have been a hint of attraction but it never really turned into anything). It could have been a buddy cop film (two opposites forced to work together) but with a male and female partner. It’s something that I wish more films and television series would do because it created a much more interesting dynamic.
Robert harling, who does tear jerkers like steel magnolia, the one was Nikita assistant in that way, who played the daughter of a Russian oligarch, she played a villainess on the agent carter series
"Ask instead what feminine agency looks like."
Feminine agency is more - enduring, persistent, defensive, long term. More accumulation and preservation of force, than taking wild gambles. More intrigue than commando raids. More arranging of marriages than instigating wars for that matter.
In war, more Quintus Fabius than Julius Caesar. More choosing (and inspiring) of subordinates, champions, as proxies, than leading them.
That's what genuinely significant women in History did.
Isabella of Castile for instance
or Maria Theresa of Austria; or Empresses Catherine and Elizabeth of Russia
The Seven Years War is a case in point. In truth it was a struggle between a male military genius (Frederick the Great of Prussia) and the three most powerful rulers in Europe at the time - all women -
Empress Elizabeth of Russia
Maria Theresa of Austria
And Louis XV's mistress, Madame Pompadour
Frederick had gravely insulted all of them, besides threatening their interests.
All of them stayed home and sent their men (royal favorites, professionals, or their aristocratic cousins) to fight, while Frederick often led himself, and often from the front.
I read all three of the Red Sparrow trilogy. The stories are written by a former CIA officer named Jason Matthews. While the writing is not of the literary genre it does have a strong plot, well drawn characters and the feeling that the author knows of what he speaks. The movie reviewer plainly isn't a fan of the genre. I can't speak to the movie and how it was interpreted by the director. I can only say that if you like a fast paced spy novel the Red Sparrow is a good read.
I haven't seen it in a while but Peacemaker left falling in love open, as I remember it. It just didn't show up in what was the top-level plot.
If you take it as implied in the future, then what love looks like in daily life is the point. It's not ripping clothes off and having uninhibited sex but watching out for each other.
If I've forgotten something like one or the other marrying somebody else in the meantime, then I'm wrong.
The Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis and Samul L. Jackson. Davis was actually pretty good as an action star in the film (pity she didn’t get to display her archery skills) and it felt like an spiritual successor to LFN/PONR.
Also Angelina Jolie in Salt.
In reading the story "Red Sparrow", the scenes of what Domonika had to endure in the whore school were extremely hard to take. She was degraded in just about every way possible. The reviewer makes light of it all but after what Domonika was put through it would make sense she was outraged with her kindly "uncle".
Ann Althouse states - ".....Other than the first 5 Bond movies, I can’t think of ever seeing a spy movie....." Well you missed out on some real art! Try, "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" either Sir Alec Guiness' version(1979) or the updated "Gary Oldman" version(2011). Am biased since all spy novels by British author John le Carré are decent reads.
Bridget Regan she played a sleeper agent for leviathans, the soviet version of hydra.
Nicole kidman was in the otherwise forgettable Billy bathgate and didn't do much for that Batman forever. She started out with Australian fare like dead calm the director Terry hayes wrote a great suspense murder spy novel, I pilgrim the villain is a western trained doctor, but some of the companion villainesses is a Turkish police woman as well as a mysterious European
One Bridget Regan or elena satine could pull off that one.
Any fans of "Game of Thrones" will see realistic and unrealistic women with agency.
Much of it is very silly - a horde of warrior women for one thing, eight or nine of them, I have lost count.
But much of it is modeled on history, and various of the "strong" female characters are true to life, in that historical examples abound. Cersei, Olenna (Diana Rigg in a superb performance), Margaery, and some others.
In recent years young people have taken on a lot of student loans to go to whore school.
Spy Books? Can't even discuss the topic without the great author Charles McGarry and his Paul Christopher novels at the top of the list.
-The Miernik Dossier (1973), Christopher investigates a possible Soviet spy in Geneva
-The Tears of Autumn (1974), Christopher investigates the Kennedy Assassination
-The Secret Lovers (1977), Christopher discovers a secret plot within the CIA
-The Better Angels (1979), Christopher's cousins steal a Presidential election
-The Last Supper (1983), introduction to Christopher's parents in pre-World War II Germany; Christopher is imprisoned in China
The novel takes place everywhere from Paris to the Greek islands to the kingdom to tony Connecticut, I think only a miniseries would do it jystice
Ann Althouse states - ".....Other than the first 5 Bond movies, I can’t think of ever seeing a spy movie....."
The last few seasons of the great BBC series Foyle's War are all spy movies, in the paradigm of murder mysteries.
The Iliad is short of heroines, as such, other than the courageous folks at home (in Troy). Then there are various Goddesses, but that's another category altogether.
The Odyssey however has an outstanding one, the very model of female heroism perhaps, and of female agency, Penelope.
Penelope has all the classic female virtues, and the female talents.
They did a terrible adaptation of better angels, with Sean cannery. As the antihero and Larry hangman as mallory.
Not that I would watch this kind of dreck ... but would somebody be willing to give me "minutes to first cigarette" and "minutes to first gun appearance" in Red Sparrow? A little wagering game I have been playing with Hollywood output for the past decade or so.
Tinsletown LOVES some cigarettes and guns in their stories! Why, it's almost like the studios are getting PAID to fit guns and cigs into movies these days.
They tried with troy, with Diane kruger among others,
After what they did to Natalie dormer in the penultimate season of game of thrones, I don't think I could continue.
Blogger Bay Area Guy said..."Paul Christopher novels at top of the list", agree 100%. But aside from my bias of John Le Carre, as a top spy novel writer, I would also add, The Day of the Jackal by Frederick Forsyth and Eye of the Needle author Ken Follet.
Judaism may have been the first religious/moral philosophy to recognize or document a woman's agency. The story of Eve indulging in a behavior known to normalize dysfunction was her choice in rebellion to a senior's advice. The philosophy advises women (and men) to think before they act, a forward-looking process in human evolution.
Pro-Choice is a religious/moral philosophy that denies a woman's agency. Notably, it places a woman's choice after her action. This is analogous to a child (a human life early in its evolution) that lacks knowledge, skill, acuity, and a capacity for self-moderation. A similar strain of prejudice permeates other doctrines of this philosophy, including diversity that denies individual dignity (e.g. normalizes color judgments).
Paranoid - punished by a child, or men are rapists. Violent - selective and recycled-child. Sexual - objects, commodities, and playthings in a socially liberal ecosystem.
Male chauvinists like strong women they can break. Female chauvinists like strong women they can manipulate. It's a feature of the twilight fringe, or perhaps a base, secular state of Nature.
female heroism perhaps, and of female agency, Penelope.
Penelope has all the classic female virtues, and the female talents.
You can be the female sex, embrace the feminine gender, and be a strong, moral actor.
Equal in rights and complementary in Nature.
In reading the story "Red Sparrow", the scenes of what Domonika had to endure in the whore school were extremely hard to take. She was degraded in just about every way possible."
Well, that sounds like a good way to make a spy thriller, which would make a good source for some high-class BDSM porn. It sounds like a pretty stupid way to train a spy.
Whore school?
Barbra Streisand?
Is there an Althouse theme, today?
"The Day of the Jackal by Frederick Forsyth and Eye of the Needle author Ken Follet."
Both were also pretty good movies.
If you really want to know what evolution thinks about the roles of the sexes, consider the social insects. There are two kinds of females, fertile queens and infertile workers. The males are drones whose only function is to produce sperm.
I think the only reason men and women have as much in common as they do is because there is a limit to how different they can be, given that they share most of a genome. Evo does what she can with testosterone, but it's basically a sports car and a truck built on the same chassis.
"You sent me to whore school!”
I assume she read the script before taking the job, and a version of that line was there.
May her high horse always be no higher than the value of that line.
It sounds like a pretty stupid way to train a spy.
It is, but that's not what they're doing. They're training someone to be part of a honey trap. The best spies are the people no one notices -- after a dinner you tell yourself that there had to have been a dozen people at the dinner because there were twelve place settings and all were taken, but you can only bring eleven people to mind. A beautiful woman will always be noticed, not least by other women! You want someone who is mousy, bland, easily overlooked by everyone.
rhhardin said... Cult classic means really bad acting as well as low budget.
Not exactly. As I understand it, cult classic movies have small but very dedicated fanbases. Almost anything that is a cult classic never caught the public imagination, typically resulting in financial failure and/or general cultural indifference. One very popular category of cult classics are "so bad it's good" movies, like the Ed Wood catalog or The Room. However, the category also includes weird movies like The Rocky Horror Picture Show," pretty good films that were ignored by the public like UHF, movies that are very popular in some subcultures like Reefer Madness, and, of course, porn with plot.
The old Soviet block intelligence agencies were heavy users of "honey traps" after all. Odds are this is still a common tactic.
Spies get agents by MICE: Money, Ideology, Compromise, Ego. The honey traps are Compromise, and that's basically what the whole golden shower part of the infamous dossier is about. Of course, even if that part of the dossier is true, it's not clear you can compromise someone who doesn't care.
I dunno. I read the book Red Sparrow some years back. As I recall the sexual "training" for potential honey trap Russian efforts involved not only females, but also young men being trained to be accomplished AC DC sexual partners. Now that's a difficult book to put on the screen. And if they left out the parts about the young men who were being trained, I'd expect the gay and bisexual crowd to scream "discrimination".
there is a limit to how different [sexes] can be, given that they share most of a genome
Physiologically, yes. Mentally, perhaps. Consciously, that depends on discerning origin and expression. The assumption, based on correlation, is that human consciousness originates internally. That may or may not be true. Either way, it's an article of faith, with believers at both ends of the spectrum. Consider a sound produced by a radio, or an image that appears on a display, both are an expression of a visibly disconnected source or object, which are not characterized by the expressive device. The known limiting factors are due to nature and nurture, and auto-reconciliation influenced by consciousness.
There are two kinds of females, fertile queens and infertile workers. The males are drones whose only function is to produce sperm.
Yeah, that would be sufficient to satisfy the secular fitness function.
JaimeRoberto said...
The old Soviet block intelligence agencies were heavy users of "honey traps" after all. ...
Spies get agents by MICE: Money, Ideology, Compromise, Ego. The honey traps are Compromise, and that's basically what the whole golden shower part of the infamous dossier is about. Of course, even if that part of the dossier is true, it's not clear you can compromise someone who doesn't care.
There's a story about a Brit who was lured, quite willingly, into a honey trap. The recruiter laid the pictures on his desk and waited for a reaction. The Brit looked at each one, picked lout 3, and said "I'll take an 8 X 10 of these three, and a smaller one of all the others. The 8 X 10's with nice frames."
Being surprised by what the role required shows what a lack of real education vice indoctrination about the great Soviet State did does to one. If she were actually educated, she would not have been surprised. Maybe they should have cast Dakota Johnson, female lead in 50 Shades of Gray in Jennifer Lawrence's role. She would have been at least somewhat familiar with the concept...
A woman movie character doesn't have to be physically kicking ass, a judo expert, shooting up the place, swearing like a sailor, falling into bed and having sex with random people because they think that makes them equal to what men do, being strident harpies, semi lesbian etc to be a "strong" character.
Unfortunately, instead of presenting women characters as fully human, multi dimensional women who have flaws as well as strengths and who can still retain their feminine sides we get these flat one dimensional caricatures of women. Caricatures of what women think they want to be, what the politically correct feminist movement thinks represents strong females. They want unrealistic strong women who always win over the men. Placement of female characters in roles that are unrealistic and when you think about it really destroys the ability to believe in the rest of the plot or script.
There are many characters in "moviedom" that have been strong, restrained and feminine. Those characters are much more believable and in reality stronger because of their restraint and feminism. Katherine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman and others of that genre played those types of multi dimensional human women. The characters don't always triumph. Sometimes you are stronger in how you handle losing.
Movies, today, that pretend to be dramas are just disappointing wastes of time. Little character development. Formula plots. Flat personalities. Action replacing dialogue. Pointless sex that adds not much to the plot. Less real acting. More computerized special effects. If they are going to present that kind of dreck, at least be honest about it. NO wonder the Marvel Comic based movies are popular. At least they are honest about being dreck and being unrealistic.
Entertain me. Don't preach at me.
Michael K said... Now, they are down to cartoons.
Note to disagree with your general assessment, but do note that "cartoons" (anime) covers a wide range of products. Japanese anime "cartoons" include the kiddie stuff, the genre was pigeonholed in the United States, but also covers pretty much any other genre that exists including action, horror, suspense, science fiction, fantasy, and, of course, porn. Some "cartoons" are deep philosophical exercises that would make most Hollywood producers faint trying to contemplate. The fact that animation allows a great deal of leeway on what can happen without the big special effects budget and/or serious danger to the cast and crew makes it quite useful for a wide variety of shows. Even in the United States, animation has branched out. The Star Wars cartoons of recent ilk have quite the body count.
That said, one of the main problems with Hollywood movies these days is they are always thinking about the foreign markets, especially China, and seem to try to make movies that will be popular worldwide. Given the cultural differences involved, that tends to produce mediocre output more often than not. It is hard to make high art when you think intricate English dialogue will make it bomb in Shanghai.
n.n said...
"Consider a sound produced by a radio, or an image that appears on a display, both are an expression of a visibly disconnected source or object, which are not characterized by the expressive device."
Hmm. I had always just assumed you were insane, but I think I see some logic peeking out here. You're saying that the structure of a radio determines that all it can do is make sounds, and even determines the frequencies of sound it can produce, but does not determine what sounds it will actually make. That is determined elsewhere, by a process entirely independent of the structure of a radio. Let us say, by a "soul". Have I got that right?
That said, one of the main problems with Hollywood movies these days is they are always thinking about the foreign markets, especially China,
I agree and I was not referring to animations, some of which are excellent although I understand "Beauty and the Beast" is no longer allowed as a subject.
I was referring to the movies based on cartoon characters which seem to me that not even 14 year old boys would be interested in.
Unfortunately, instead of presenting women characters as fully human, multi dimensional women who have flaws as well as strengths and who can still retain their feminine sides we get these flat one dimensional caricatures of women.
The glory days of women actresses, especially those older than teeny boppers was the 1940s.
There was a whole movie genre that featured often tragic heroines but they were meaty roles for women.
"Hmm. I had always just assumed you were insane, "
n.n. was never insane, just complex.
Too smart for me to follow often enough.
DBQ and Michael K both make valid observations. I think the missing ingredient in women's roles today is character.
Many good movie recommendations above.
Let me add, after Static Ping's remark:
Anything by Satoshi Kon (except Perfect Blue, which is double black diamond stuff) especially Paprika, Millennium Actress, and Tokyo Godfathers.
"Wolf Children" by Hosoda.
Just a couple of examples of women of character in films gone by:
Ingrid Bergman's role in The Inn of the Sixth Happiness.
Deborah Kerr's role in The King and I.
In both instances, the subject was feminine and attracted to men but never betrayed her values.
The best, toughest, female heroine in a movie is the Dutch Jewish "Rachel Stein" in Black Book
It's a thrilling WWII movie made about the European resistance to the Nazis.
Excellent, excellent movie. Not sure whatever happened to the lead actress, though. She was fantastic, though.
I have two recommendations for spy "movies"- Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, especially the Gary Oldman version, and a television show The Americans which is finishing its 6 season run this Spring on FX.
Hmm. I had always just assumed you were insane, but I think I see some logic peeking out here.
If you read n.n carefully, it is generally worth your time, and some effort. I say this and I disagree with her on her main issue.
That said, I don’t always understand her.
Asking a woman to watch Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is kind of like asking her to read Infinite Jest.
I was watching "Subura" on Netflix (it isn't on the US version). It is an Italian movie about various organized crime types and a mature woman doing a deal regarding a land grab worth hundreds of millions of Euros.
What was striking is that the woman (who was cheating on her husband but still a strong executive type) at how very feminine and different HER character was. She was strong. She was smart. She was NOT a Black Widow, butt kicking man.
In one scene, she was trying to get a medical record faked and the doctor started to maul her. Did she do ninja moves?
Nope. That wasn't her thing. She just left, made a phone call to her Junior Psychopaths, pointed at the doctor and said "Play". That was what THEY were for.
She got her report.
Gender roles creating realistic characters. Who knew.
Whore school?
I'm going!
Do you think it’s like barber school, where you can stop by and get discount haircuts from the students?
Been wondering what movie to get next. Guess I'll get Tinker, Tailor.... Didn't read the novel but the movie sounds good.
But wait: There's a 1980 version and a 2011 version. The reviews are about the same. Which one to choose?
Very interesting topic
I ordered the 1980 version. It's three DVDs and over 5 hours long. :-)
I don't want to go to whore school.
PISS OFF!
Tim in Vermont said...
"If you read n.n carefully, it is generally worth your time, and some effort. I say this and I disagree with her on her main issue."
I got the general gist of an idea, that pretty much everything wrong with our society is rooted in the foul corruption of abortion, which is certainly a tenable position. But while brevity is the soul of wit, it is not the soul of clarity, and I usually give n.n a pass. But I'm taken with this image, of the human corpus as receiver, with transmitter unknown. Of course, that would seem to make abortion fairly innocuous, no? One more broken radio on the tip.
And, where did you get "her"? n.n's style seems male to the vanishing point to me. Laconic to the point of near-silence.
The problem with this Hollywood meme of the super-duper charged aggressive, violent, sexy female character is that it's totally phony. Even the worst male chauvinist among knows and respects strong, powerful, attractive women who work, raise kids, hit the yoga class, and actively live life in the real world.
But Jennifer Lawrence in a costume with quick cut movie magic AIN'T IT.
Indeed, we kinda sorta had a real one, in Sarah Palin, who was a hot, active, hunter, skiier, outdoorswoman, but, because she was a right-winger, she was demonized as a nut.
You really have to ignore and/or mock whatever meme the Left is pushing in any venue of life.
Some TV soaps have fairly strong female characters-- e.g., Mary in Downton Abbey. Helen Mirren tends to play strong female characters, on TV and in movies.
Murder on the Orient Express (2017) was okay but I would have liked a gag reel extra.
Can you go to Whore School on the GI Bill ?
Jupiter said...
n.n said...
"Consider a sound produced by a radio, or an image that appears on a display, both are an expression of a visibly disconnected source or object, which are not characterized by the expressive device."
Why? Pretending that radios are like humans doesn't mean radios are like humans. I bet that type of fallacy has a name
Hmm. I had always just assumed you were insane, but I think I see some logic peeking out here.
I think he's a rich guy in a private mental hospital, cranking out mystical nonsense.
So when does JL's sabbatical to sabe Demicra y again? Soon, I hope...
If you read n.n carefully, it is generally worth your time, and some effort. I say this and I disagree with her on her main issue.
n.n. is a GIRL?!
"Save Democracy." I hate it when the other drivers honk like that. Distracting!
Judaism may have been the first religious/moral philosophy to recognize or document a woman's agency.
The Iliad and the Odyssey both feature very strong women characters with agency. The Odyssey especially, which derives its moral force and dramatic impetus from four female archetypes: Kirke, Kalypso, Nausicaa, and, most grandly and decisively, Penelope. In terms of agency and strength of character, Penelope is one of the extraordinary female characters in world literature. And let's not forget the roles played by the redoubtable Athena and Hera; without their support, assistance, advice, and intervention Odysseus would never have made it home. The Odyssey has, always, a powerful effect on me: because I had affairs with Kirke and Kalypso, but I married Penelope, thank God.
Worth noting that Homer's epics originated in an oral tradition that predates the Bible, perhaps by many centuries.
Gilgamesh was mostly shorties and ho's.
n.n. is a GIRL?!
I think I think that because n.n. reminds me of my sister.
Bryn Whore?
n.n. takes some intellectual risks, that’s for sure, but I would stop short of nonsense.
The TV series of Tinker Tailor is better but the movie, which a lot shorter , is also good.
They probably feel like Huck Finn at his own funeral about now.
Fernandistein said...
"Pretending that radios are like humans doesn't mean radios are like humans. I bet that type of fallacy has a name"
Perhaps. But suggesting that radios are like humans in a certain way is called an "analogy", and is a valid and useful mode of thought and expression.
However, if there are two types of radios, and they make very different sounds, there still has to be a structural reason. Like, one is AM and the other is FM. Otherwise, even if there are two different kinds of stations, which one is playing on a particular radio would be random.
If Jennifer Lawrence knew the movie was a turkey that would explain her plans to take a year off (and then silently slip into retirement).
" (and then silently slip into retirement)."
This is a very smart thing to do, once one has made a pile in showbiz.
mock: if you like TTSS, Smiley's People is another 6 episodes in the continuing saga
Ann writes: "Hollywood is sick. Evil. Corrupting our soul. "
I agree. But it's not just in Hollywood but in much of corporate media and elite academia too. We are living in an age of high decadence. How long before the worm turns? Or will it just go on and on for centuries? Or both?
I vote for both: https://goo.gl/8cWYCW
Actually, the book was a good read but, Hollyweird could fuck-up a wet dream!
True. Hollywood films are unrealistically violent, and detached. But that's why there's a thriving indie film scene - growing bigger every day by virtue of the streaming content industry. (Of course the recent, successful Republican effort to take control of the internet away from the consumers and give greater share of it to the huge telecoms threatens this horribly). But the idea that even a handful of these starlets lack the clout and the resources to ban together and start their own - wholesome/realistic - film collective is ridiculous. It seems to just be a female thing to want to complain and claim powerlessness in re: everything. The lack of female directors might contribute, but there are way too many independent production studios for there to be any sort of actual conspiracy to keep this from happening. Of course, they might have to come up with plots that go beyond the typical schmaltzy chick lit rom coms coming of age crap, but that's on them, too.
I enjoyed the first book quite a bit, including — quite improbably, given my usual tastes — the short regional recipes at the end of each chapter, always relating back to some food that's appeared in the just-preceding pages. The recipes don't specify any quantities, only ingredients and preparation steps, so you must guess at proportions, which seems to me to be in keeping with the Russian spirit as portrayed in the book. (I have no idea if Russian cooks are really hostile to cups, tablespoons, and teaspoons.)
I knew within the first two chapters of the first book that it had the makings of a great movie, and that Jennifer Lawrence — who I think has done some good work in the past, along with some not-so-good work — would be tragically miscast. It's a great role, and I'm sure most young actresses would want it. But the very girl-next-door qualities that made her successful in the Hunger Games movies work against her. A ballerina, she ain't, bad pretend Russian accent notwithstanding.
And that's a shame, because I'm midway through the second book in the trilogy, and it, too, is a crackling good read — including the recipes! — and I likewise think it has the makings of a very successful movie in it.
----------
PIPÉRADE-BASQUE PEPPER STEW
Sauté sliced onions and garlic in oil until soft. Add thin strips of roasted red peppers and crushed peeled tomatoes, season with salt, pepper, oregano, and paprika, and simmer until incorporated. Break eggs onto the top of the sauce and finish in the oven until the eggs are set but the yolks are still runny. Serve with grilled country bread or as a side dish.
Add "passage of time" films to the "coming of age" genre.
Of course, women refer to minor variations thereof as a "midlife crisis" in men - but I guess that's because they're jealous of how the other gender misses out on the supposed joys of menopause.
Almost everything American (feminist?) women have done in the culture is either euphemistic, projection or a cover-up. We can't even blame the Trump debacle on men because after all he was simply a greater narcissist and whiner than Hillary prides herself on being and blew the election despite her claim to being a political wiz-bang (her admission to lacking any natural "touch" as a politician notwithstanding) by not seeming to understand that working class voters in 4 key swing states might want to be able to eat and have good jobs, also - male or female.
This was the most correct and necessary thing that Sloppy Steve Bannon ever put out there: Hillary Clinton is not that bright. Certainly way less bright than she got credit for.
If women want to get anywhere further in America they should try being more thoughtful and less angry. I realize it goes against the conventional model for success in this country, but it would leave everyone better off.
if you like TTSS, Smiley's People is another 6 episodes in the continuing saga
All are excellent. Same cast,
Tim in Vermont:
I'm exploring the possibilities, while maintaining a [soft] separation of logical domains. In the engineering space, we like to say: just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Similarly, in the philosophical logical domain, it would be: just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's scientific. It could be a fantasy or an article of faith, where neither precludes reality, but the former begs the probability, and the latter is, not surprisingly, dependent on trust or external input.
That said, in this context, men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature. That is observable and reproducible. Then again, so is evolution of human life from conception, but a large minority believe its negotiable. As for what consciousness is and how to characterize it, that answer lies outside the limited scientific logical domain, and perhaps in the philosophical logical domain forevermore.
Concerning n.n., I think Fernandistein @5:29 PM may have nailed it. However, I'm thinking he's an alien who to learned to write and act human from an alien manual on how to be human. He technically correct but even so there's something off. Like Scotty in the episode of Star Trek who said the "feel" of the ship was off.
Yeah, Peacemaker has Kidman getting a bouquet of roses in the beginning that she throws into the wastebasket. Clooney the abrasive liason officer enters and notices it with a card from "Roger." So whoever she was dating she's dumped, in movie plot language.
At the end, after everybody recovers, they make a date for a beer.
So it's a love story.
“You sent me to whore school!”
Well, you said you wanted to be a Lawyer.
I think I think that because n.n. reminds me of my sister.
I think I'll take that as a compliment.
Unlike the scientific logical domain, where accuracy is inversely proportional to the product of time and space offsets from an established frame of reference (i.e. proximity), in a virtual environment, where logical domains are routinely conflated, accuracy is limited by revelation and inference.
The Beautiful Kick-ass heroine just saves time.
In the old days, the hero had a "Best Friend" who kicked ass and a "Girl-friend"
Now, Hollywood combines the two.
I just got through watching "Klute"
Jane Fonda got sent to "Whore School" and graduated with honors.
Worth noting that Homer's epics originated in an oral tradition that predates the Bible, perhaps by many centuries.
Ah, but Genesis predates them all. Still, it is worth qualifying my example in some manner. Perhaps Judaism as the first monotheistic religion, or the unified theory of religion or moral philosophy. Well, I'm not married to that conclusion, but note the underlying principles, which have a value independent of the faith and tradition framework.
Other than this “Showgirls”-esque howler..
All right, enough is enough. I held myself in check several days ago when Mockturtle disrespected Chevvys in the troll thread.
But I can no longer remain silent.Showgirls is a classic. I watch it every time it comes on, and rewind certain scenes to appreciate the quality of acting.
pretty much everything wrong with our society is rooted in the foul corruption of abortion
No. The root of corruption is a failure to reconcile logical, scientific, and moral principles to reach conclusions that are internally, externally, and mutually inconsistent. I focus on elective abortion because of widespread support for human rights (and a moral axiom: intrinsic value) and the observable, and, I would suggest, self-evident knowledge that a human life evolves from conception. There is also diversity that denies individual dignity. Warlock hunts justified by allegations, with a notable lack of forensic and other independent evidence. Decade after regrets that deny a woman's agency and strength. As well as political congruence, that is notably selective, and other examples of inconsistency and even divergence.
Pretending that radios are like humans doesn't mean radios are like humans.
I proposed that discernment of origin and expression may not be feasible in the scientific logical domain. I suggest a radio's reproduction of sound, and a television's reproduction of image, as analogies for understanding the complexity of the issue. However, this issue is not of practical importance if we limit ourselves exclusively to the near space and time (i.e. scientific logical domain).
Full moon misconstrues: I held myself in check several days ago when Mockturtle disrespected Chevvys in the troll thread.
I would NEVER disrespect Chevys! I drive a one-ton Silverado, myself! My post included an example of things people might say when trolling a thread on a vehicle forum.
Re Showgirls. I've seen it and it's pretty bad. But at least I know what a 'lap dance' consists of now. :-O
we kinda sorta had a real one, in Sarah Palin, who was a hot, active, hunter, skiier, outdoorswoman,
Also, a wife, mother, and leader. Sarah Palin is what the feminists were looking for. Unfortunately, she opposed their philosophy that places a premium on consolidation of capital and control, carries out warlock hunts, denies lives deemed unworthy, mutates diversity as a political congruence, and a common belief that men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature. So, of course she was shunned by "polite" society. Well, she's not the first, and will not be the last, as the epiphanies are many and self-sustaining.
Well said, n.n.
Ann, I too read the racy bits in Goldfinger in 1965, when I was 12.
But a couple years ago I embarked on a belated Bond binge and read all the Fleming books and watched all the films. Casino Royale is up there with the best spy novels, well worth a read. Live and Let Die is dated and racist, but still fun. Moonraker, which is very unlike the movie, is probably his best. All the Bond novels, unlike the films, have strong female characters, who frequently save Bond's ass. Gala Brand in Moonraker is particularly fine, her brains and bravery are as important as Bond's, yet feminine. Plus the opening sequence in M's private club, with the villain cheating at Bridge, is the best of the Bond gambling scenes after Casino Royale's.
You may also like Eric Ambler's books. His schtick is ordinary men caught up in spy plots, but my favorite characters are Andreas and Tamara Zaleshoff, a Soviet brother sister spy team who are a straight version of Boris and Natasha.
I thought the book petered out (heh) about two thirds of the way through. What you really need in a book like that is a seemingly invincible opponent. All of the interesting characters ended up on the same side too early for the sake of the plot.
Also, what's the use of having a beautiful ballerina who graduated cum laude (heh heh) from whore school, but doesn't even like it! She's basically a monogamist who was unwillingly *sent* to whore school.
It seems obvious to me that if you write a paperback thriller about an irresistably beautiful woman who was trained by the KGB to seduce anyone she wants, anytime she feels like it, that character should a) enjoy having that kind of power, and b) use it to get ahead (heh heh heh).
Being able to have sex with anyone you want, anytime you want is a common fantasy. It's half the appeal of James Bond. Having your main character reject that kind of power is an unwanted element of realism in an area that should be pulp wish fulfillment.
Paranoid, violent, and sexual are great emotions for pulp. Realism can go hang!
Well its her intuition that comes into play, that synethestesia I mentioned,
Edgerton I though was entirely wrong for the part of nash, I think the reviewer got confused about both Parker's part and the villain in the piece, who is ironically named after one of the assets games betrayed
Its curios how Amy Adams roles were a little on the risque side, (check the imdb for evidence) and she's gotten more substantial, whereas Lawrence started put wholesome and well...
n.n said...
"Pretending that radios are like humans doesn't mean radios are like humans."
I proposed that discernment of origin and expression may not be feasible in the scientific logical domain.
I propose that your mental hospital has ivy covered walls, a nice pond with swans and some scary rooms for seances.
Amiright?
Rape and violence is Old Hollywood: The Birth of a Nation.Night Nurse. Baby Face, Scarface.
For a spy series I like PBS’s 13-part Reilly: Ace of Spies (1983), with a young Sam Neil playing Reilly, concerning approximately the two-decade period 1905-1925.
mockturtle:
I sincerely believe it. While there are Natural differences between men and women, the significance of those differences appear in context, and there is no general preference for a man or woman when earned merit is the qualification.
I would vote for Sarah Palin to be President, not because she is female, but because of her character, her principles. Despite the logical implications of "diversity", and despite their sexist tropes, progressives and liberals clearly have the same criteria.
I think that most people understand, accept this, and I am just exposing what lies beneath.
Fernandistein:
What experiment have you, can you, conceive, in order to distinguish between origin and expression of human consciousness?
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