If the Justice Department and FBI abused their intelligence-collection authority by seeking a FISA-court warrant based on unverified information, if they in any way gulled a federal judge into believing that Steele’s rumor-mongering was refined U.S. intelligence reporting, why not disclose that misconduct and put the collusion chatter to rest?...
They may not have had a collusion case on Donald Trump, but they surely had lots of intelligence tying him to bad people and unsavory activity.... [T]he Justice Department and FBI must have figured the public would never see their classified FISA-court application, especially after President Hillary Clinton took office. Thus, they had a strong incentive to load it up with anything they thought they had on Trump....
Even if that information doesn’t prove collusion, and even if some or all of it is suspect, would you want such an application disclosed if you were the president?
January 14, 2018
"Anatomy of a Farce/Fusion GPS founder’s testimony shows how we got the collusion narrative . . . and why it won’t go away."
You need to read Andrew McCarthy at National Review. From the very end:
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1 – 200 of 262 Newer› Newest»When it comes to his opinion pieces anyway, Andy McCarthy has a long history of being proved wrong.
Garbage in the FISA application (if indeed there was even a FISA application---a fact not yet in evidence) and garbage out in the warrant.
Why did the FBI and DOJ abuse their foreign intelligence-collection authority? Cui bono? Hillary.
Did Hillary bribe these government agents? What was in it for Point Shaver Strzok? Diamonds? Bitcoin?
TTR has found new faith in the Clinton Crime Machine. Because Trump hate.
Garbage in the FISA application, a fact not yet in evidence.
TTR:
"When it comes to his opinion pieces anyway, Andy McCarthy has a long history of being proved wrong."
And so, that means this analysis is wrong, how?
I talked about your Messiah McCarthy. Address the substance of having him provide credible commentary, if you can. If your Clinton hatred/Trump love doesn't overwhelm your ability to address substance.
Oh that's right. Trumpies don't have any substance. They're all just about the spectacle. Roll over, Dickin'Bimbos! Fetch! Good Trump pet! Good girl! Now Trump will grab you and give you a treat!
“Why did the FBI and DOJ abuse their foreign intelligence-collection authority?”
Where is the evidence that they did? It’s pure conjecture. You and I don’t know what Mueller knows—yet.
I think Trump hasn't ordered it all declassified, or ordered the FBI to comply with Congresses requests promptly, because he has been told by his lawyers to do nothing in this regard lest it be described as obstruction by Mueller or Trump's political enemies.
If the kitchen sink approach McCarthy described is correct in regards to the FISA application, any truly sordid details damaging to Trump would have been leaked prior to the election, not be unleaked today.
Sarah - smacking down the hack press.
The same hack press that Oprah says is the poor victim.
And so, that means this analysis is wrong, how?
Maybe it's not, and it seems what he wrote is more complicated than I initially give credit for. It's just that after a while I get bored with the NRO/etc. clique trotting him out as if he's the go-to guy for sensible right-wing legal analysis. Nevermind the fact that the original Russia issue has gotten too boring to fixate on every day, let alone the new Trump Team spin of how it's all really Hillary's and Obama's and Comey's and Mickey Mouse's fault anyway. Just convoluted beyond belief.
Why did Mueller hire this guy? For fun?
Ryan Dickey, a veteran cyber crime prosecutor, has joined special counsel Robert Mueller's team of investigators.
A spokesman for the special counsel's office confirmed to The Hill on Wednesday that Dickey was assigned to Mueller's investigation in early November from the Justice Department's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section.
Liberals are so ignorant.
Here is Paul Mirengoff.
"Few liberals are aware of what conservatives are reporting or saying. They probably don’t watch Fox News or read the Washington Times or Examiner. It’s very unlikely that they listen to conservative talk radio or read conservative blogs.
Recently at a social gathering, someone asked me what I was writing about on our blog. I mentioned Fusion GPS. None of the liberals in the room, all of whom follow the news, knew what Fusion GPS is."
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/01/hack-alert-letterman-interviews-obama.php
And this.
"The short explanation of this is Sharyl Attkisson's (unedited):
First, intel agencies werent supposed to surveil US citizens. But they did. Then they werent supposed to "store" it. But they did. Then they werent supposed to search it. But they did. Then they werent supposed to "unmask" it. But they did. Then they werent supposed to leak it..."
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/confusing_dossier_chaff_with_wheat.html#ixzz54AwM4FCW
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
"Where is the evidence that they did?"
-- We know they did, because the unmasking was done by someone faking credentials. That alone should make anything learned from the unmasking technically inadmissible. We also know that Comey illegally leaked his memos to try and have a trial by public opinion to force the government to further investigate something that had, until then, not been deemed worth investigating.
So... those two facts alone, plus Mueller's complete incompetence in hiring competent, honest people, along with the clear double standard of giving Podesta a chance to rectify his company's handling of information but indicting Manafort for the same offenses, should paint a clear picture.
"...
How do you make someone look guilty of something he hasn’t done? You erect a formidable circumstantial case around the big hole in the middle — the hole that, in a normal case, would be filled by evidence that the suspect actually committed the crime. You don’t so much cover the hole as create distractions from it. The biggest distraction is bad character: You must establish that your suspect is a five-alarm rogue. This is the fun part, the part you can feel righteous about. By the time you’re done, people will want to believe the scoundrel has done whatever he’s charged with. Indeed, if you’re the maestro, you’ve probably even convinced yourself that this sort of morality play is, shall we say, a well-meaning “insurance policy” against the ruinous harm the accused would surely do unless we convicted him of . . . something. ..."
Wow - it's as if he's looking right at you, Inga.
“Few liberals are aware of what conservatives are reporting or saying. They probably don’t watch Fox News or read the Washington Times or Examiner. It’s very unlikely that they listen to conservative talk radio or read conservative blogs.
Recently at a social gathering, someone asked me what I was writing about on our blog. I mentioned Fusion GPS. None of the liberals in the room, all of whom follow the news, knew what Fusion GPS is."”
Plenty of liberals know what and who Fusion GPS is. Plenty of liberals don’t buy into conspiracy theories put forth by those who are invested in protecting Trump.
“You erect a formidable circumstantial case around the big hole in the middle — the hole that, in a normal case, would be filled by evidence that the suspect actually committed the crime....”
The same could be said for the conspiracy theory that the FISA warrant was obtained fraudulently.
Inga,
Since you claim to know who Fusion GPS is, then describe to all of us Althouse commentators who they are in your words.
Also: I have no doubt Obama illegally surveilled Trump's campaign. He used the power of the state to spy on Congress and on journalists. There is no reason for me to believe Obama did not approve of spying on Trump, and given what we know, it seems more and more likely.
“We know they did, because the unmasking was done by someone faking credentials. That alone should make anything learned from the unmasking technically inadmissible. We also know that Comey illegally leaked his memos to try and have a trial by public opinion to force the government to further investigate something that had, until then, not been deemed worth investigating.”
No “we” don’t know that, because it’s another conspiracy theory and in the case of Comey a misrepresentation.
“Why did the FBI and DOJ abuse their foreign intelligence-collection authority?”
"Where is the evidence that they did? It’s pure conjecture. You and I don’t know what Mueller knows—yet."
The evidence is in a FISA court order obtained by Judicial Watch.
Well, we know the crooked liberal Dems will lie. And we know the liberals on TV said that word a lot on tv.
"Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Sen. David Perdue (GA) who was in the immigration policy meeting with a bipartisan group of lawmakers when President Donald Trump allegedly used the word “shithole” to refer to Haiti, and El Salvador and African nations, said Trump did not make that comment.
Perdue said, “The gross misrepresentation was that language was used in there that was not used and also that the tone of that meeting was not contributory and not constructive.”
He added, “I’m telling you he did not use that word, George. And I’m telling you it’s a gross misrepresentation. How many times do you want me to say that?"
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/01/14/gop-sen-perdue-gross-misrepresentation-trump-not-make-shithole-comment/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
"Plenty of liberals don’t buy into conspiracy theories put forth by those who are invested in protecting Trump."
-- What conspiracy theory? There are three important, known facts, about Fusion GPS: They lied about Clinton paying them. Steele admitted to paying Russian KGB agents for information. Fusion GPS lied about having Russian speaking specialists on staff to Congress [they had hired an FBI manager/director's wife with that skillset.]
It seems clear to me from those three facts that Fusion GPS was unethically colluding with Russia and the Clinton campaign to interfere in the election, and that they've committed perjury. And that's the information we know, without having to cross our fingers and hope Mueller delivers a surprise.
“Since you claim to know who Fusion GPS is, then describe to all of us Althouse commentators who they are in your words.”
It doesn’t matter who you or I “think” they are. Read the Wiki page on them.
As soon as it gets more complicated than "we really got him this time!" I get bored.
You won't hear about the Bundy trial in the media. Why? Because the BLM and the FBI acted like mafia goons, and the judge knew it and threw it all out.
The idea that the FBI and the CIA are infallible icons of purity - that's like saying the media are honest brokers.
LOL.
Few liberals are aware of what conservatives are reporting or saying.
LOL! Why should they! What the reactionaries calling themselves "conservative" report or say is all basically make-believe, anyway.
They just got lucky in having a lifelong Democrat beat 17 of their candidates and the once-Republican Democrat SJW for the presidency by being the first one to run on working class issues for the first time in forever. No surprise there.
They probably don’t watch Fox News or read the Washington Times or Examiner. It’s very unlikely that they listen to conservative talk radio or read conservative blogs.
Or Sesame Street. Or Pokemon. Or whatever. If we wanted to read/listen to/watch the grown-up equivalent of Oscar the Grouch all day then we'd revert back to childhood and call ourselves "conservatives," like you do. Only it would have to be an angrier childhood than we remember. We just can't relate.
Actually, Inga, Samantha Powers has stated in sworn testimony before Congress that most of the unmaskings listed under her credentials were not done by herself- so, yes, we do know part. In addition, Comey himself has stated that he leaked the memos of his conversations with Trump to get an independent counsel appointed, so we know that is a fact, too. Also, since conversations with the president with his subordinates are also often priveleged and born classified, then it is quite likely Comey's confessed leaks are also illegal, so that may not yet be a fact, but it is certainly a supportable conjecture.
"then it is quite likely Comey's confessed leaks are also illegal, so that may not yet be a fact, but it is certainly a supportable conjecture."
-- We know this. There were seven memos, four of which were classified/secret, and Comey leaked four of them, without stating which ones. Simple math says that if 4/7 are classified/secret, then there is no way to leak 4/7 without leaking one of the classified ones.
And, once again, crickets from Inga who doesn't want to answer a question off the top of her head.
Then, Inga, how about simpler questions? Who hired Fusion GPS to engage Steele? Can you answer that question?
In this article McCarthy strikes me as doing a lot of supposing this and hypothesizing that, but he makes some excellent points. One point that he overlooks in his wrap-up is that at this point in his administration Trump may simply not trust his intelligence and law enforcement agencies to act responsibly in the interests of the American people. That's a possibility worth contemplating.
Inga said: "Plenty of liberals know what and who Fusion GPS is."
And those liberals are working hard to ensure no one else figures it out.
"One point that he overlooks in his wrap-up is that at this point in his administration Trump may simply not trust his intelligence and law enforcement agencies to act responsibly in the interests of the American people."
-- How can he when members of the FBI openly discuss with their leadership an insurance policy to stop him if he becomes president?
Do the opposite test.
Let’s say President Clinton (or Obama) at this point in the investigation
1) campaign manager was indicted by a Federal grand jury
2) first National Security Advisor and top campaign official on foreign affairs has pleaded guilty and was cooperating with the Special Counsel
3) the other campaign manager and then top political advisor in the White House said that other top campaign managers were guilty of “treasonous” activity
Would you say that the investigation should be stopped and the prosecutor fired?
Of course you wouldn’t if it was President Obama or Clinton.
Let’s see what develops from the Special Counsel investigation—an investigator appointed by the Trump administration by the way.
If there is no evidence of violating the law then the Special Counsel will not be able to successful bring a case to court.
So stop acting like a bunch of big phonies and have some patience.
Let’s say President Clinton (or Obama) at this point in the investigation
1) campaign manager was indicted by a Federal grand jury
2) first National Security Advisor and top campaign official on foreign affairs has pleaded guilty and was cooperating with the Special Counsel
3) the other campaign manager and then top political advisor in the White House said that other top campaign managers were guilty of “treasonous” activity
Would you say that the investigation should be stopped and the prosecutor fired?
--> Actually, in one of the investigations into President Obama's campaign, the IG was investigating wrong doing and requested information/documents. Obama fired him. So... no, I didn't want that IG fired, but, yet he was.
"1) campaign manager was indicted by a Federal grand jury"
--> Manafort was indicted, while Podesta was given a heads up from Mueller to get his company's books in order, and they did so, instead of an indictment. So... uh... yeah.
As for #2, we know Abedin and others committed perjury regarding Clinton's emails, and none of them will ever face consequences. We know this because we found documents on Weiner's laptop put there by Abedin. We also know that instead of returning government property, the Clinton campaign destroyed them with hammers. So... why is Trump's guy getting The Treatment, while Clinton's cronies go free?
See, I'd be *fine* with the Trump investigation if it wasn't clearly a political witch hunt while Democrats get off free for *the exact same* crimes found by *the exact same investigative bodies.*
If you read Andy McCarthy and Conservative Treehouse you end up far ahead of the news cycle and well informed. At the present, for example, such a reader knows the ins and outs of the various ways in which the previous administration allowed political operatives to ransack through private e-mails and phone calls of American citizens looking for Trump supporters without FISA court oversight. It was done in way which was not classical wiretapping and which did not involve national security issues. Therefore Directors of the FBI, CIA and DNI could say "truthfully" to Congress that there was no warrant and they would have aware of one. But what they were not asked was whether there was searching going on against Republican supporters of Trump which these directors were aware of and which searching was without a warrant and without a written national security justification. These directors were not asked whether they were allowing this because it was beyond imagination that they would allow such politicization and such attacks on US citizens. They are the guardians. But now it has reached the status of imaginable that the guardians were corrupted, somehow, by the Clintons. And some of us think: "This happened. We need to devise protections against a new abuse of power which is exploiting the digital world." And some of us try to discredit those exposing the scandal. "Democracy dies in darkness" seems to be their action plan.
Remarkable article. The concept of honor seems to have disappeared into the vast grasping for power that is American politics.
“What conspiracy theory? There are three important, known facts, about Fusion GPS: They lied about Clinton paying them. Steele admitted to paying Russian KGB agents for information. Fusion GPS lied about having Russian speaking specialists on staff to Congress [they had hired an FBI manager/director's wife with that skillset.]
It seems clear to me from those three facts that Fusion GPS was unethically colluding with Russia and the Clinton campaign to interfere in the election, and that they've committed perjury. And that's the information we know, without having to cross our fingers and hope Mueller delivers a surprise.”
You put together loosely tied rumors and come away with the conclusion that the FISA warrant was obtained fraudulently and the Clinton campaign was the one who did the colluding? Seems “clear” to you? Maybe it’s so clear to you because that is what you are wishing for. This is nothing more than a conservative counternarrative to protect Trump. That’s what very very clear.
Just gotta shake one’s head over the desperate attempts to muddy the waters of the real swamp ( if that’s even possible) that is the Trump administration.
This must be serious.
Inga and Ritmo are furiously trolling.
It smells of desperation...
...and fear that the "wrong" people will be locked up.
What? Nowhere do I mention a FISA warrant or how it was obtained.
I'm stating three clear facts: Fusion GPS (and Clinton) lied about her paying them. Steele admits to paying Russian intelligence operatives. Fusion GPS lied about having Russians on staff (and about having an FBI person on their staff).
My conclusion solely focuses on the fact that Fusion GPS, Clinton and others committed perjury and that they were colluding to alter the election.
Try and address that instead of this stuff about a FISA warrant which is not mentioned in my facts or conclusion.
What "collusion" did Trump do?
I can point to clear collusion from Clinton, in paying Fusion GPS to transfer money to Russian intelligence agents to produce anti-Trump propaganda. This is an actual, God's Truth.
“Inga and Ritmo are furiously trolling.”
#SaysDr.RunningWithScissors.
Again: I'm fine with Manafort and others going to jail for breaking the laws. I don't care; I DO care about the fact Podesta and Clinton's perjurers got away with lying to the *same* investigators without suffering any blowback, except losing the election.
Indicting members of only one political party is not justice; it is quite the opposite.
Our resident dullard #IngaKnew claims this is all some fabrication despite the mountain of evidence, but can separate fact from fiction on sexual abuse accusers based just on claims.
This, like the Walker John Doe bullshit, will end badly for #IngaKnew. But she'll just avoid those posts and move on to the next lefty talking point.
McCarthy: "Even if that information doesn’t prove collusion, and even if some or all of it is suspect, would you want such an application disclosed if you were the president?"
Yancey Ward said...
If the kitchen sink approach McCarthy described is correct in regards to the FISA application, any truly sordid details damaging to Trump would have been leaked prior to the election, not be unleaked today.
Plus, Trump is a "good offense is the best defense" type of strategist. Either way, highlighting the entire contents of the application isn't necessary or even helpful in exposing the perfidy of his opponents.
After the fall of Saipan made B-29 Raids on Tokyo a certainty, the Emperor ordered up mass Kamikaze attacks to be made by the Japanese Fleet's ships and Air Forces.
That is where the Globalists are at now. Following the Saudi coup's cutting the financial strings working their DC puppets under a Trump deal, the last 10 weeks have been the fall of Saipan redux to them. Expect suicide attacks as the last move, as unbelievable as it seems.
I think there's a FISA warrant, but I think it is the opposite problem.
I think it basically has nothing there. It got rejected once, then they just gussied it up and tried again. I think it is basically a useless document saying "pretty please," and so there's no value in releasing it, since it just repeats the same innuendo we've all heard covered in legal jargon.
Which of those were rumors, Inga? That the Clinton Campaign paid for Fusion GPS's work, or was it that Steele has said he paid sources in Russia for the information he allegedly put in the dossier? Which of those two is just a rumor?
Did the Clinton Campaign and the DNC pay Fusion GPS to create the dossier, yes or no? Did Steele get a lot of the information he claims to have put in the dossier from Russian sources, yes or no? Would such Russian sources be giving information to Fusion GPS be collusion to interfere with the election by your understanding of what "collusion" means, yes or no?
“What "collusion" did Trump do?”
How about you wait and see what Special Prosecutor Mueller’s investigation results are? In the meantime carry on with the conservative counternarrative designed to protect Trump. We know you will.
It. Won’t. Work.
The answer is Yes. scorched earth on the obama holdovers at the DOJ/FBI.
WAIT.
"But ask him about Natalia Veselnitskaya and, well, he’s sorry he can’t help you — see, she’s not fluent in English and, shucks, he doesn’t speak Russian, so who knows what she was jabbering about?
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455426/steele-dossier-fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-trump-russia-investigation"
--> If she's not fluent in English... were any of the people at the Trump Jr. meeting fluent in Russian? HOW IS THERE SUPPOSED TO BE COLLUSION IN THAT MEETING IF THEY COULDN'T SPEAK TO EACH OTHER!?
Again, Inga refuses to answer simple questions. This is my surprised face :-O.
I'm with john marzan! Drain the swamp.
It is just a scaled up and more complicated version of what they did to James Rosen.
Which I have at least twice seen the Attorney General of the United States brag about his personal leadership of on national TV.
So -Agency SOP.
"How about you wait and see what Special Prosecutor Mueller’s investigation results are? "
--> That worked so great with Scott Walker. And Ted Stevens. And Bob McDonnell. And Rick Perry. And Sarah Palin.
Sorry. Almost every recent high profile Republican "investigation" has ended up thrown out or discredited. You don't get another pass to try and say: "Well, this time, this time we're REALLY playing above board and not just conspiring to alter the results of an election!"
We've seen plenty of results, and not one of them moves the ball closer to Trump-Russia Collusion, and everything we've learned makes it less, and less likely.
HOW IS THERE SUPPOSED TO BE COLLUSION IN THAT MEETING IF THEY COULDN'T SPEAK TO EACH OTHER!?
Heh. Stop wrecking narratives, Matthew.
Hey, though, at least the left isn't leading a LITERAL WITCH HUNT like they did against Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.
Ingram is right—it won’t work.
You are all a bunch of rightwing zombies commenting on a retired woman’s conservative blog.
“Which of those were rumors, Inga? That the Clinton Campaign paid for Fusion GPS's work...”
So what if the Clinton campaign paid for oppo research, did she do a quid pro quo with Russians for dirt on Trump? Did Trump? Mueller’s investigation results will tell the tale.
“...or was it that Steele has said he paid sources in Russia for the information he allegedly put in the dossier?Which of those two is just a rumor?”
This is a rumor.
What you do know is that Trump is a erratic out of control individual who might literally be crazy. It is very easy to imagine that he got messed up in something illegal given his reckless untruthful nature. In fact it would be surprising if he didn’t.
But again, we don’t know the facts yet. You all would like to see any investigation ended before more facts come out.
Good luck with that.
Fusion GPS Founder Retracts Claim of FBI Source Inside Trump Campaign
BY RICK MORAN JANUARY 13, 2018
Glenn R. Simpson, former Wall Street Journal journalist and co-founder of the research firm Fusion GPS, during his arrival for a scheduled appearance before a closed House Intelligence Committee hearing on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Nov. 14, 2017.
During his testimony before Congress in August, Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson said that the FBI had a source inside the Trump campaign who gave credence to the infamous dossier the company created for the Democrats.
He repeated the claim in a New York Times op-ed on January 2.
But today, Fusion GPS is retracting that statement, saying that Simpson "mischaracterized" the source. It was not some one on the Trump inside, but apparently an Australian diplomat
He was featured in a Dec. 30 New York Times story as the source who tipped off the FBI. Campaign volunteer George Papadopoulos told him over drinks that a Russian-linked professor knew of “thousands” of Hillary Clinton emails in the hands of Moscow.
How Mr. Simpson knew of the diplomat last August was unclear. He would have known of him in January when he wrote an op-ed in the New York Times in which he again told of an insider source.
“As we told the Senate Judiciary Committee in August, our sources said the dossier was taken so seriously because it corroborated reports the bureau had received from other sources, including one inside the Trump camp,” he wrote.
Moments after Sen. Dianne Feinstein, California Democrat, unilaterally released the transcript, the inside-source story spread, especially in London. The city is home base of Christopher Steele, the ex-British spy who wrote the dossier.
In his testimony, Mr. Simpson told of Mr. Steele’s meeting with FBI agents in Rome in September 2016. Mr. Steele told Mother Jones magazine he was trying to jump-start an investigation into President Trump.
Mr. Simpson testified, “Essentially what he told me was they had other intelligence about this matter from an internal Trump campaign source and that — that they — my understanding was that they believed Chris at this point — that they believed Chris’s information might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing and one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the Trump organization.”
Nothing to see here right #IngaKnew?
"So what if the Clinton campaign paid for oppo research, did she do a quid pro quo with Russians for dirt on Trump?"
-- Yes, using Fusion GPS and her lawyers as middle men to pass the money from Clinton to Russian agents.
"Did Trump?"
-- As the Fusion GPS person just told us, the Russian Lawyer they met with couldn't speak English, Trump Jr., Manafort and whoever else were there don't speak Russian as far as we know... so, no. The only meeting that collusion may have happened in got called off early, most likely because, as Fusion GPS just told us, no one there could speak to each other.
Inga said...
“What "collusion" did Trump do?”
"How about you wait and see what Special Prosecutor Mueller’s investigation results are? In the meantime carry on with the conservative counternarrative designed to protect Trump. We know you will."
How about you take some of your own advice and wait for the investigation results. Since you don't seem to have anything substantive to contribute.
The counternarritive for the most part isn't to defend Trump , but to point out your and your sources total lack of objectivity. Not to mention the near total lack of reason.
Like Chuck you can't find it in you to say about Trump that isn't derogatory.
He gave you a nice tax cut.Thank him for that at least.
The last isn't a rumor, Inga, if you believe the information in the dossier is factual- the claim from the dossier itself is that the information came from Russian sources. Can you not read? Now, if you are saying you doubt the information in the dossier is true, then you can call it a rumor, but if you believe the information is true, then you can't call it a rumor- it has to be a fact in your own mind.
Was there a quid pro quo? Well this hinges on whether or not the sources in the dossier were paid, right? It also depends on whether or not the sources are real. I tend to believe Steele, if he prepared the dossier at all, didn't have any sources- he just took Fusion's money and gave them what he thought they wanted him to "find", so I do believe there was no collusion with Russians by the Clinton Campaign, directly or through proxies, though I don't think it was for lack of trying.
“Nothing to see here right #IngaKnew?”
What do you think you’re reading? Do you even understand what is being said here? Obviously you don’t or you’d realize that this excerpt proves my point, not yours.
#GeorgeDumbMonkey
"But today, Fusion GPS is retracting that statement, saying that Simpson "mischaracterized" the source. It was not some one on the Trump inside, but apparently an Australian diplomat"
-- ... So, perjury.
Generally when you hire someone to do work for you, you meet with them periodically to assess their progress. I have seen that Steele/Fusion shared info with media outlets, the FBI and John McCain. Where are the follow up notes or docs between Fusion and the law firm that hired them and/or the DNC and Clinton? Have those been gathered?
I imagine the end of this investigation will be like Burn After Reading
“Was there a quid pro quo? Well this hinges on whether or not the sources in the dossier were paid, right?”
Read the transcript and then tell where in that transcript it says that Steele paid Russians for info. The rest of your comment is conjecture.
From the Moran article:
"During his testimony before Congress in August, Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson said that the FBI had a source inside the Trump campaign who gave credence to the infamous dossier the company created for the Democrats."
I think Simpson either flat out lied, or was relating a lie that Steele told him. I don't think there was any connection between the Papadopoulos story and the what Simpson said in August. Simpson is simply letting the new fact he learned afterwards cover for that part of his testimony, and it will work since there is no way to prove it one way or the other.
What is the difference between “collude”and “conspire?” Does colluding always imply secrecy but conspiring does not? Just wondering.
Inga,
Your repetitive personal insults are pitifully weak and irrelevant to the topics we have discussed here.
Now your flopsweat is truly evident.
The left is going down on this one. The panicked efforts of the DNC/MSM to feed you lines to distract only work on those who can't understand or handle the truth.
My take is that Trump is somewhat dirty with the Russians somewhere along the way. Business is business, and if you're doing business with entities in hard-line countries (think Russia, China, or the Middle East), there will be dirt. It goes with the territory.
But that has everything to do with Trump's fitness for being president, and NOTHING to do with "collusion." And Muller's job is to determine if there is collusion. No one—I repeat, no one—in the DOJ or any other government agency is authorized or empowered to determine Trump's fitness for the Office of President.
The problem is that all these folks in the Deep State fervently believe that that is their mission, that they are smart enough, principled enough, and righteous enough to make that call. Voters be damned.
As said above, Trump knows he's somewhat dirty. How could he not be dirty, and how could he not know he is dirty? But—and this is the crux—Trump also knows that he didn't collude with the Russians to get elected. He didn't need to; HRC was just a horrible candidate.
So DJT is going to let this thing play out as long as it takes. In my view Mueller will never find a smoking gun; he'll find lots of reports on the sound of gunfire, but no smoking gun.
At the end, Mueller and his Justice/State Department pals within the Deep State will be the ones who will look bad. They'll have done all this stuff, used up all this time, and spent all this money to come up with nothing more than some bad behavior by some minor fuctionaries. Meanwhile, HRC and her pals did stuff much worse than anything Trump is being investigated for—we KNOW it—and got a pass.
Mueller and the Deep State will come out the losers on this one ... as they should.
"Again, Inga refuses to answer simple questions. This is my surprised face :-O."
me too :-0
Trying to get her into a rational point/counterpoint discussion is like pulling teeth. It's painful to watch (if you have any compassion). As buwaya keeps pointing out, there are millions of Ingas out there. If there were just a few it would be comical. The multiples make it alarming.
From Reddit:
“Fake News - she put her pussy in my hand”
“Your repetitive personal insults are pitifully weak and irrelevant to the topics we have discussed here.
Now your flopsweat is truly evident.”
#FranciscoCanHandItOutButCantTakeIt
LOL, I warned you, didn’t I?
I don't think Steele paid them, Inga- you are one who brought up whether or not there was a quid pro quo in this case. I made no mention of it. However, I will just repeat your words to you- why not wait and see if a trail can be found in banking records? I don't expect to find one because I don't think there were ever any sources- that is where I stand on the matter, however, if you do believe there are sources, do you think they take the risks they do for nothing? I would find that unlikely.
However, back to the point I was making- the dossier itself claims that many of the claimed sources were Russian- so that is collusion with Russians, right?
I understand that some of the people defending Trump are just trolling the few left wing commenters left on this blog, but to actually believe that Trump is worth defending as either a human being or a leader just seems sad.
My understanding is at one point, Steele/Fusion GPS claimed to have paid them, and then started claiming otherwise once they realized how bad that looked. I just never assumed people believed the walk back.
In my view Mueller will never find a smoking gun; he'll find lots of reports on the sound of gunfire, but no smoking gun.
While ignoring the many smoking guns of actual collusion between the Hillary campaign, Obama administration, and the FBI, which are well within the scope of the SC investigation.
“Again, Inga refuses to answer simple questions. This is my surprised face :-O."
me too :-0”
I did answer his question @10:50.
Now I must get ready for my own birthday party, no more time to parry with you lovely people.
The coming weeks will be a bitch for Democrats supporting GPS Fusion, DOJ IG release 1.2 million documents to Congress Friday at 6:00 PM.
The possibility is great that the DOJ and FBI let Fusion GPS as a "private contractor" to illegally access NSA data to tract private US citizens. New Special Council anyone or should we let DOJ and FBI investigate them selves?
"I think there's a FISA warrant, but I think it is the opposite problem.
I think it basically has nothing there. It got rejected once, then they just gussied it up and tried again. I think it is basically a useless document saying "pretty please," and so there's no value in releasing it, since it just repeats the same innuendo we've all heard covered in legal jargon."
The question then, if there is nothing questionable in the FISA warrant application, why did the DoJ and FBI stonewall Chairman Nunes for fife months (since August), until he got Speaker Ryan to buy into citing these agencies for Contempt of Congress? The great thing now though is that we will, very soon, know the answer to this. It's been a week maybe since Chairman Nunes got his hand on the application. He has stated his intention of making it available to the entirety of at least the House in the near future, at which time, there are inevitably going to be leaks. And, I expect that it will make the Obama people look bad, which is why his leakaholic Dem counterpart, Schiff, who too has had access to the warrant applicantion hasn't said or leaked anything about it in the week or so they have had it.
We don't know what was in the warrant application, but we do know that Adm Rogers, the renegade NSA head, met with Trump, and the next day Trump moved his transition team out of Trump Tower, which is strong indicia that the FISA warrant was being used to surveil Trump Tower.
Matthew Sablan:
My understanding is at one point, Steele/Fusion GPS claimed to have paid them, and then started claiming otherwise once they realized how bad that looked. I just never assumed people believed the walk back.
Let's suppose they did say that initially, then backed off of it. We are left, then, with it being just a "rumor" again. Sure, one statement or the other was a lie- and it is more likely the second statement is the lie- but this is conditional on the sources being real and not just fabrications of either Steele and/or Simpson. If, as I think, Steele made up sources, then both statements are irrelevant.
As for whether or not the Clinton Campaign lied about paying for the dossier- I don't think anyone will be able yet show perjury since I have seen nowhere this said under oath- but they definitively lied about it to the press as this story was told by clear Clinton simpaticos like Maggie Haberman, for example- she explicitly said they lied about it, and with great sanctimony. That the Clinton Campaign lied about it is an established fact now.
Everyone is "losing" in this.
On the one hand, a large part of the US population has learned much more, and now has much better grounds on which to mistrust their government institutions. This is simply a realization of pre-existing conditions. The fantasies have worn off and the default attitude is paranoia. The FBI or any of the Fed agencies certainly aren't assumed to be the good guys anymore. Under the next Democratic administration they will be looked on, indeed, as the jack-booted thugs of an Orwellian despotism.
On the other hand it is clear that reforming all this is a lost cause. And that there is no way forward, in large part because of the disastrous social-political split in the population itself.
The other loss is the oceans of acid and poison this absurdity has added to the above. Distrust and hate have increased far beyond what would have been, had the DOJ and FBI simply come clean. They would have lost some senior personnel but would have looked vastly better for it.
If one reads the TR/Inga comments above, it's really interesting to me how Inga works hard, if unsuccessfully to offer counter arguments while TR just slings poo - no counter arguments, facts or reasoning, just insults and bile for those with whom he disagrees. To me Inga is a somewhat sympathetic character, but TR is just a miserable lout. That said, I really appreciate TR's speaking for the other side as he's the kind of ideological enemy that everyone dreams of having. OTH, I just hope Inga isn't so consumed by this nonsense that she loses it when it all collapses.
"#FranciscoCanHandItOutButCantTakeIt. LOL, I warned you, didn’t I?"
Sad. Pitifully sad.
I love the smell of panic and flop sweat this morning.
It smells like ...
...Victory!
Now I must get ready for my own birthday party, no more time to parry with you lovely people.
1/14/18, 11:12 AM
Oh yeah? Happy birthday Inga, you beautiful nutty broad you! And many more!
“Oh that's right. Trumpies don't have any substance. They're all just about the spectacle. Roll over, Dickin'Bimbos! Fetch! Good Trump pet! Good girl! Now Trump will grab you and give you a treat!“
“Maybe it's not, and it seems what he wrote is more complicated than I initially give credit for. “
On the same thread.
If Trump would stop digging holes for himself the substance of what really happened night get some attention. So much depends upon Sessions and Wray.
My understanding is that there is not a single Trump property in Russia. What exactly are all of these Russia business deals? Loans? Did Russian banks make bad loans to Trump or are they performing? Market terms or what?
Very imprecise.
“Or Sesame Street. Or Pokemon. Or whatever. If we wanted to read/listen to/watch the grown-up equivalent of Oscar the Grouch all day then we'd revert back to childhood and call ourselves "conservatives," like you do. Only it would have to be an angrier childhood than we remember. We just can't relate.“
And yet we are ahead of these stories and more informed than you. It also seems that the media has lied about many parts of this story.
It is funny to watch someone claim that they just can’t deal with information.
"The possibility is great that the DOJ and FBI let Fusion GPS as a "private contractor" to illegally access NSA data to tract private US citizens. New Special Council anyone or should we let DOJ and FBI investigate them selves?"
What we do know is that the FBI had been allowing contractors to illegally access and query accumulated electronic products information. This was in the FISC opinion, triggered by what Adm Rogers found in his 702 compliance review (started in 10/16, after he went over his boss, DNI Clapper's head to the FISC, about FISA misuse - Clapper, of course, immediately tried to have him fired). We don't know how extensive it was (but Nunes, as well as Trump, Sessions, Nunes, etc likely know) because the public version of the FISC option has those fields blanked out. And, so far, we don't know if one of the contractors was Fusion GPS. The interesting conjecture though is, if they were, was some of their Steele Dossier the result of that access?
Again though, we will likely have our answers in short order. Deputy AG Sally Yates (under AG Lynch) wrote a memo preventing the DoJ IG from conducting oversight over the National Security Division at the DoJ. This is the division that is involved in getting FISA warrants, etc. The AG, and that division head, have to sign onto every FISA warrant applied for. And, after AG Sessions had that Yates memo rescinded, the IG has spent most of the last year finally able to review what was going on in the NSD. And had promised his report by tomorrow (Monday 1/15) to Congress. The surprise was that he started his 1.2 million page document dump last Friday.
Oh that's right. Trumpies don't have any substance.
My retirement account has substance now and at this time, that’s very important to me.
(eaglebeak)
In the context of this discussion, people might find it useful to read the book Licensed To Lie by attorney Sidney Powell, who (a) worked for the DOJ for a number of years, (b) clashed with them (including Andrew Weissmann of Mueller Team) in the Enron/Arthur Andersen cases, and (c) appeared last night on the Shannon Bream show to discuss the state of play of the Collusion Confusion:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/13/interesting-segment-with-shannon-bream/
".. to actually believe that Trump is worth defending as either a human being or a leader just seems sad."
For me it's not about Trump, it's about preventing the coupe that is being attempted and also preventing constitutional crisis that will come with it. OTH, if one honestly answers the standard question that has always been used to measure the success or failure of a given government, i.e., "am I better off than I was a year ago?" the answer has to be "absolutely!" You are better off too, ARM, but you will never admit it. That's what's sad.
Jaydub wrote:
"For me it's not about Trump, it's about preventing the coupe that is being attempted"
This coupe was my first car- it probably should have been prevented, too. Of course, I just tease.
For me, even assholes deserve due process.
.. to actually believe that Clinton is worth defending as either a human being or a leader just seems sad."
“You need to read Andrew McCarthy...”
Too late.
Mueller's investigation will fizzle out. Then the question will be why didn't Mueller follow up with the real collusion: the collusion between the the DoJ, the FBI, the State Department, the DNC and the Obama White House to obstruct justice.
Great piece. Thanks,Ann.
Molly
I would support a law that said federal agents and prosecutors who judges have found to have lie to a court and falsified or hidden evidence to the court should get the sentence they were trying to impose on the defendant. Or maybe strung up outside the court house. The US Constitution means dog shit to these people.
Francisco D. Douchegag:
Calm down.
cubanbob,
I suspect there will be another special counsel appointed to answer that question.
The question in my mind is whether Mueller will prolong things until the 2018 election, in hopes that the Democrats take the House.
Just prove collusion,ARM. By Trump.
Even to an objective bystander it looks like Mueller isn't so much trying to find evidence against Trump but trying to save the democrat infrastructure.
And yet we are ahead of these stories and more informed than you.
As you're ahead of every part of the Republican make-believe story that doesn't matter:
Just watch Trump's star journalistic "entrepreneur", Alex Jones - the same one who went on about spreading Tuberculosis at Chobani plants and making frogs gay - concoct his nonsensical conspiracies about Trump being poisoned into lethargic mental decline.
Trump trusts this turkey even more than he does the blonde and brunette at Fox & Friends. Or as Jon Stewart called them, "Chrissie and Janet."
I'm sure the McCarthy crap is of a piece with that. It all is. The right-wing is conspiratorial and confabulatory and just makes up what it wants to believe. It's expert at that. No other faction can touch it.
Meanwhile, convicted traitor Manning is running for Senator in Maryland. The Dems really have nothing against treason, it's all Trump hate, all of the time, if you are a Democrat. Of course Trump hate is really hatred of the people who voted for Trump, all 63 million of them. And why do the Democrats hate the Trump voters? They are simply too American and don't live in fashionable zip codes.
(A)"Will someone please rid me of that D@mn priest? (B)"let's do it tonight, and tonight the murder is done. (A) is free speech and not a crime, but sometimes called collusion by the uninformed or malicious, implying a criminal act. (B) includes (A) where adding the criminal act makes it a conspiracy. Per Blacks'. IANAL. But I have spent too much time with chief justices examining which incentives sustain our system of no justice. And what small change may fix and why? Good Fun for a class assignment. 500 words or less please.
I told you this train was coming down the track months ago. The leftists are corrupt and will respond with violence and will be shreaking about racism constantly now. Watch.
At least it's past noon.
"The leftists are corrupt and will respond with violence and will be shreaking about racism constantly now. Watch."
Yes. The louder and more non-sensical the shrieking from the DNC/MSM, the closer we are to putting the real criminals in jail.
The continuing success of the Clinton Crime Family and their FBI and DNC enablers was predicated on Hillary ("Why aren't I 50 points ahead?") becoming POTUS as all the smart set expected.
These are dangerous times because the leftists seem increasingly desperate.
“I'm sure the McCarthy crap is of a piece with that. It all is. The right-wing is conspiratorial and confabulatory and just makes up what it wants to believe. It's expert at that. No other faction can touch it.“
I don’t like NRO. I think they are shills paid by the same people who fund media matters and Politico. The people at Fox News are trying to destroy their own station. Almost every media entity that pretends to be more than a few friends with opinions is a globalist owned foreign entity.
But I still read the crap they put out for the lemmings.
You do yourself no favors by ignoring information that doesn’t fit your paradigm. You end up as you are now, uninformed and bitter when the truth comes out.
"shreaking?"
Why don't you watch more Alex Jones, Aquilles?
Remember, Big Bird was in on it. Snuffleupagus is a false flag operation!
Wait a minute... was that "alleged" Trump and porn star encounter in the dossier?
Or was that discovered during the 'listening in' phase, or the 'wire tapping' phase of this sordid affair?
What else could there be in this "dossier" worse than calling Haiti a shithole?
Check out where the right-wing (and especially the Trumpies) gets their information from these days!
" to actually believe that Trump is worth defending as either a human being or a leader just seems sad."
I'm no fan of Trump's personality, but to ignore the truth and defend corruption because you dislike someone's personality is pathetic, whether due to naivete or as an excuse. I doubt it's naivete, which makes it worse than pathetic.
This dossier is like the birther allegations against Obama.
It's never gonna be nuked.
but to actually believe that Trump is worth defending as either a human being or a leader just seems sad
I'm not moved by arguments of emotion. Lefties believe everyone can be moved by emotion the way they are.
I don’t like NRO. I think they are shills paid by the same people who fund media matters and Politico.
Yeah, what else is new? You think that about everybody! NO ONE is pure enough for your Alex Jones-y nutraceuticals enhancement supplement make-it-all-up-as-you-go-along pseudo-conscious mentality. And what about the gay frogs! And the false flags! And the inside job on 9/11? What about all that!
You end up as you are now, uninformed and bitter when the truth comes out.
No, the truth is the truth. You just think that for something to be true it has to be sensationalistic! Exciting! And completely confirmatory of whatever partisan heap of trash you're currently peddling.
It's how the right-wing is. Easily bored. Distracted. Attention-deficit-disordred. If it ain't exciting to them, it ain't real. It ain't true. It ain't worth paying attention to.
That's because they're boring people. And the end result is the more outlandish something sounds, the more they believe it.
The result is that normal people just end up tuning it out. And stop caring to find what "truths" might actually lurk in the right-wing brain swamp and fever dream romper room.
Enjoy your stories.
Using Stephen Colbert as your source to mock the right with Alex Jones is pretty ironic.
Very few people on the Right listen to Jones, but most on the left think various comedians on TV are news sources. That's why they are always referencing them in conversations, online and in the media as some kind of proof of something. There is no substance to either Jones or the likes of Cobert, but you should at least know that Colbert is a comedian, and Jones is a opportunistic flake that few take seriously.
Wake me up when right-wing story time is over.
Ritmo makes my point about the increasingly unhinged desperation of the Left.
Their narrative will never be demolished, but it is going to take increasingly bigger hits.
It really is shocking we have members of the Presidential Administration spying on the camping of the opposition party-- and somehow that isn't a huge scandal.
Using Stephen Colbert as your source to mock the right with Alex Jones is pretty ironic.
Very few people on the Right listen to Jones,
EXCEPT FOR TRUMP!
Fucking IRONY alert! That's ironic enough to build a big iron-y megacity full of as many steel skyscrapers as it takes to build a fantasy big enough for a right-winger to live in without ever leaving.
Trump and Jones. A pretend presidency made for a story-teller conspiracy journalist. A match made in Heaven. Or at least in a kindergartner's nap time.
Trump's Twitter feed is a veritable paean to Jones. If Trumpism is a religion Alex Jones is its chief theologian. He is the shaman and Trump is the tribal chief. Oooga booga!
Now go on about how out of touch Hollywood is, you Jones-Trump Nexus of insanity defender.
Ritmo makes my point about the increasingly unhinged desperation -
of Alex Jones and the Trumps who listen to him.
Fixed that for you, Douchey McCisco.
I am not motivated to reject polices that help people improve their personal freedom and standard of living because some politician is a 'bad' person. Nor do I believe Trump is somehow more reprehensible than other (very) recent Presidents who are still revered despite their reprehensible behavior. I reject the need to add qualifying statements like I'm no fan of Trump...
"Fixed that for you, Douchey McCisco."
Thanks Ritmo.
We can see the immaturity of the Left as well as their increasing desperation and intellectual dishonesty.
If you were a person who had a lot of power and loved it, what would you do to keep it?
What if it was really easy to peek at what your opponent was up to? What if you are Brennan, and your whole life is peeking into what other people are up to, and moving the levers of power accordingly?
What if you could do what you do every day- make representations of bad things people are up to so you could listen in on their conversations, read their correspondence, pay people for stories about them-- to help bring the downfall of your opponent and continue your own power?
What if you were used to feeding reporters your spin on the truth, so you know you could explain how the person being spied on by you is the bad guy?
What if it was really easy to do? What would it take to keep your from doing it?
I’m quite happy with President Trump’s performance.
I’m a lifetime artist. Freedom of speech is the lifeblood of the arts. The president is leading the attack against PC censorship and is the most effective and determined advocate for free speech in the U.S.
I lived until recently in a community of artists in Woodstock, N.Y., who have collapsed into abject surrender to PC censorship. Artists have failed to do their job. Fucking conformist cowards. Only the president has been willing to take the heat.
Listen, I loathe Althouse’s fag hag Marxist feminism, but you have to hand it to her. She believes in free speech and she provides one of the few effective forums for blasting PC censorship to hell. She may be a Menshevik who is deluded about the ultimate goals of the Bolsheviks, but she’s a sincere Menshevik.
Breaking PC censorship is not only the key to a effective arts community and effective political dialogue, it is also the key to economic prosperity. You cannot address economic problems if you can’t talk bluntly about economic reality.
President Trump is a great patriot and American hero. He’s taken the heat just about everybody else has been too fucking cowardly to face. God bless him. Pull your heads out of your asses and see the reality of what he has done. Stop with the fucking cowardly explanations and mincing about the courage and foresight of this man. You’re complete idiots if you don’t appreciate what he has accomplished. He’s suffered 2 years of horrifying abuse to do it.
The situation in the US wrt information access and surveillance/social control is approaching Soviet-East Germany conditions, especially at the upper end of the culture.
It is quite difficult, given the extreme career risks, for anyone with some status in business, science, art, academics or any other field to buck the imposed consensus. Even in private.
I know for certain (and seen/heard for myself) that people in such positions have more liberty even in, say, Hong Kong. This should be seen as a shameful situation, that there is less practical freedom in this country than even in an outpost of a totalitarian dictatorship.
The proles of America have more freedom, for now, but the clampdown is in progress.
Oh, what the hell. Reagan's presidency was overseen by a chief astrologer so I guess it only makes sense that the Trump residency has a chief conspiracist loon to advise it.
I guess normal people just aren't good enough for Resident "Very Stable Genius."
I wonder if the history books will mention this all started with allegations that Trump paid hookers to per on Obama's bed.
" I reject the need to add qualifying statements like I'm no fan of Trump..."
It's important when the argument against accepting the truth is that you just don't like the guy, and when the opposition is primarily motivated by a personal dislike. How you feel about Trump seem to be the most important thing. I'm simply saying I'm not blinded, and they should consider that what motivates them may be blinding them.
We can see the immaturity of the Left as well as their increasing desperation and intellectual dishonesty.
-- Francisco "D"
"I do whine because I want to win and I'm not happy about not winning and I am a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win."
Resident Donald J Trump.
Keep lying about the basics of science, poverty, the debt and every thing else your unhinged Nepotist in Chief lies about and we'll keep tuning out all your other anti-HRC/Democrat fixations just the same. Maybe if the Resident actually felt good about what he was doing he wouldn't have to obsess about 2016 and the other party. But he does. Because he's a phony with a long history of lying, cheating, swindling and retaliating who boasts just loudly and constantly enough to tune it all out.
The right-wing is conspiratorial and confabulatory and just makes up what it wants to believe. It's expert at that. No other faction can touch it.
This, from an AGW hysteric. Perfect.
Irony has its uses as a literary device, in small doses.
A great artist like Tom Wolfe can create intricate structures of it, but thats his schtick.
Its not a useful thing in reality. It does not help in the perception of reality. There is no such thing as an ironic SCADA system or ironic structural analysis of a physical building, an ironic motor vehicle bureau or even an ironic tax filing.
Arguably its not even a useful technique in persuasion, in political rhetoric.
I'm simply saying I'm not blinded, and they should consider that what motivates them may be blinding them.
Uh, the fact that he's a pathological liar who has no friends in the business community willing to vouch for him or his sorely lacking integrity.
Hey! Billjob Clinton made people "feel good", too. It just turned out he was a total phony who felt that whatever he could convince you to believe might as well have been true. And then we felt the repercussions of his empty presidency within one and eight years of his exit.
I maintain that Trump is the right-wing Bill Clinton. And once he loses the Republicans in Congress on taxing the shit out of small business in blue states then your lifelong Democrat will be turned to the left, too.
You wackos have zero foresight.
...an AGW hysteric.
And there's a great example of a full-on ignorance loon. Says anyone who listens to the science instead of cherry-picking objections to it from right-wing propaganda sites is a "hysteric."
The hard-on who wrote it never passed high school, (maybe got a GED), never passed a science class, never even spoke to a scientist about how atmospheres are the requirement for a climate, and thinks "peer review" means that since Donald and Alex Jones are friends, Donald speaks Jones' "truth to power!"
FullMoon admitted that he doesn't even understand AGW. Just was told by the right wing that it's to be denied.
So he gets his science from politicians. And pundits and political hacks. There you have it.
" Because he's a phony with a long history of lying, cheating, swindling and retaliating who boasts just loudly and constantly enough to tune it all out."
I am confused, Ritmo.
Are you talking about Obama or the Clinton Crime Family Don Slick Willie or perhaps, his consiglieri Hillary?
It doesn’t matter who you or I “think” they are. Read the Wiki page on them.
It's still morning out here, yet that will be the stupidest thing I'll read all day.
And it won't even be close.
@The Toothless Revolutionary's yada, yada y mas yada:
So?
I don't care if Trump (or Reagan) disembowels chickens to decide policy, or if Obama consulted a hundred think tanks first. Results are what counts, and the results for Reagan and Trump are impressive, while Obama presided over the slowest recovery since the Great Depression and for some of the same reasons that one was so pathetic.
The fact is that leaders go with their gut based on experience. Trump has a lot, while Obama had zero at running, building or fixing big things, or small ones for that matter. He just did what his professors and sycophants told him to, mostly people who also had little experience at doing real things in the real world.
I ain't no ways tyaard of winnin.
"The question in my mind is whether Mueller will prolong things until the 2018 election, in hopes that the Democrats take the House."
This is the best argument for appointing a second special counsel, not necessarily now (let's see what the IG has), but soon.
I "got" my science because I learned it.
Earlier in my career I was occupied with the manufacture of orbital vehicles in fact, made by the companies for which we were a subcontractor. These things (or a few of them) first created the only instrumented "climate record", and the foundation of the subsequent hysteria.
Its not "my" science, but the way of it is the same - it is empirical, painstaking, based on repeatable tests of actual physical systems, not "models". That is absolutely not true of the "climate" speculation.
The fellows who actually did create the consistent analyses of temperature based on this orbital instrumentation, Christy and Spencer et. al., have long since condemned the speculative hysteria that goes beyond what the instruments show.
"You wackos have zero foresight."
From the guy who has been coming here telling us for years how the Republicans are toast as they advanced 1000 elections over the Dems across the country during Obama. The guy who was convinced we would have President Hillary right now. Yea, that was some foresight right there. I really don't know anybody more consistently and vocally wrong on politics.
The oddest aspect of the collusion narrative is that it was propounded by Hill: heroine of the reset, beneficiary of millions in Russian money, funder of oppo research relying on Russian operatives.
Hillary Clinton is squeaky clean! Any suggestion that any of her investigations were somehow fixed is just proof that the utterer suffers sluggish schizophrenia!
Damn, that was a rout. No wonder only the insane and delusional Lefties come here (except for Bob).
"I predicted he would be absent this Friday and Saturday night in an attempt to create the illusion he was on a date(s)"
On his birthday he fills his "dates" with helium and pretends they're angels.
"FullMoon admitted that he doesn't even understand AGW"
Well, at least one person on the planet is honest.
These things (or a few of them) first created the only instrumented "climate record", and the foundation of the subsequent hysteria.
Its not "my" science, but the way of it is the same - it is empirical, painstaking, based on repeatable tests of actual physical systems, not "models". That is absolutely not true of the "climate" speculation.
The fellows who actually did create the consistent analyses of temperature based on this orbital instrumentation, Christy and Spencer et. al., have long since condemned the speculative hysteria that goes beyond what the instruments show.
TTR, this is pretty much what I was going to say, only better.
BTW, how was the dates this week end? Did you "score"?
"It really is shocking we have members of the Presidential Administration spying on the camping of the opposition party-- and somehow that isn't a huge scandal."
The media which is liberal gets to decide what is a scandal so the Dems can do whatever they want to.
"I maintain that Trump is the right-wing Bill Clinton."
The nineties were pretty good too, but I don't expect Trump to diddle any of his employees in the oval office, lie under oath, lose his license to practice his chosen profession, or be impeached, despite that effort being started even before his election.
Playboy Who Hates Strong American Women and only dates women from other countries...
In 1977, Trump married his first wife, Czech model Ivana Zelníčková, at the Marble Collegiate Church in Manhattan in a ceremony performed by the Reverend Norman Vincent Peale. They had three children: Donald Jr. (b. 1977), Ivanka (b. 1981), and Eric (b. 1984). Ivana became a naturalized United States citizen in 1988. The couple divorced in 1992, following Trump's affair with actress Marla Maples.
In October 1993, Maples gave birth to Trump's daughter, who was named Tiffany after high-end retailer Tiffany & Company. Maples and Trump were married two months later in December 1993. They divorced in 1999, and Tiffany was raised by Marla in California.
In 2005, Trump married his third wife, Slovenian model Melania Knauss, at Bethesda-by-the-Sea Episcopal Church in Palm Beach, Florida.
Trump obviously hates strong (eyebrow raising) American "Women (sic) and only dates women from other countries..." At least the ones who are too strong for him to assault them.
The nineties were pretty good too, but I don't expect Trump to diddle any of his employees in the oval office, lie under oath, lose his license to practice his chosen profession, or be impeached, despite that effort being started even before his election.
Were they worth the disasters of 2001, 2003 and 2008?
I think mass casualty domestic terrorist attacks, trillions-dollars wars in the wrong countries and economic depressions are more important than one person's legal troubles. But if you disagree then there's a party that sees totally eye-to-eye with you!
You prove my point with this "nineties" nostalgia. They were a fake decade, led by a fake president. But keep personalizing the political. The damage his administration did for what came afterward is what matters, same as with Trump.
I mean, assuming you care about your country. Which you've indicated that a globalist like yourself probably doesn't.
Notice that the war drums we hear beating are coming from the Democrats? That’s what you get when you have Hillary as the head of your party.
Marla Maples got Trump good! What a strong American woman!
What a moron. This is all the kid's got. Oh, that and that NASA and the mayors of American cities that keep flooding regularly are lying to him but that the RNC is not.
Scott Pruitt is reducing the number of scientists at EPA and increasing the number of political offices there. Surely he is also an honest man with an honest agenda, too.
Sued the EPA 14 times and lost every one but let's go ahead and pretend that what he's up to has anything to do with scientific integrity.
The only reason I know of Alex Jones is because of all the leftists who keep saying us conservatives listen to him. None, repeat, none of the conservative sites I peruse on a regular basis ever use him as a source of information. Repeat- none. That includes several places that would be in the manosphere and others that have been accused of being white supremacy sites.
I don't know who listens to or reads Alex Jones, except for liberals trying to figure out how conservatives think. And they're headed in the wrong direction doing that- since few if any actual conservatives listen to him.
From what I have read of him, methinks he can be thrown in with conspiracy theorists, who'll often believe multiple contradictory things at the same time. Almost like liberals, who believe that most 3rd world countries aren't shitholes, but we have to let all their people come here- because they're escaping from shitholes.
TTR: "I maintain that Trump is the right-wing Bill Clinton."
Congratulations! Thats what many of us have been saying for several yeaes now.
Which is why Trumps conservative policies in actuality have been such a pleasant surprise to us.
Most of us have been saying that if we get just 25% of what we want from Trump it would be a huge win.
It also seems like we on this side have been saying forever that dems could get much of what they want by working with Trump so he could cut some deals. But the dems went the other way in lunatic fashion.
Which worked out for us.
Of course, its quite possible the dems dont want the solutions (my belief). They simply want continued lax enforcement and amnesty in immigration to replace the american electorate with third worlders steeped in socialist thinking.
So far you guys have been pretty successful in that.
Now Red Pill Playboy TTR assumes bringing Trump into cnversation makes TTR's misogyny acceptable. Educated, but still stupid after all these years.
Trump obviously hates strong (eyebrow raising) American "Women (sic) and only dates women from other countries.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
The only women I date are either not from America or are closet freaks - (the good kind). But then sometimes even the freaks aren't also open about all the other things. But not hating yourself sexually is a good start.
9/15/17, 7:46 PM
Which you’ve indicated that a globalist like yourself probably doesn't.
Yes, these globalist proponents of open borders must be denounced comrade! Nazis!
A Madison connection -
Roy Spencer got his MS and Phd in Meteorology at UW-Madison, 1982.
Pre-Althouse.
UW should have a monument. His work (with Christy) led directly to the whole "global warming" business, regardless of his opinion of it. No Spencer&Christy, no "global warming" or "climate change".
Well, at least one person on the planet is honest.
It's not honest to say that NASA and the EPA (when it was staffed by scientists instead of Scott Pruitt's political hackey henchmen) are wrong but that the only evidence you've got to go on is some no-name unpublished pseudonymous jerk-off on Blogger named "buwaya puti."
Puti even said that trace amounts of substances are inactive. He quantified that.
So I asked him why low amounts of arsenic or lead are still damaging even if they're less than (whatever arbitrary percentage he deems too "small" for him to notice, if not a mammal's physiology).
Of course, he couldn't answer. Because it's a nonsense assertion. He used "small" and "trace" in the sense of saying that those words were a matter of personal opinion.
...how was the dates...
Don't be a creep. Just because the better part of the daddy who abandoned you dribbled down your mommie's legs doesn't mean you have to take out your SJW pseudo-feminist rage on me, loser.
Blogger Gospace said..."The only reason I know of Alex Jones is because of all the leftists who keep saying us conservatives listen to him. None, repeat, none of the conservative sites I peruse on a regular basis ever use him as a source of information. Repeat- none."
Yeah. Kind of like envoking Hitler; it means you're flailing.
Roy Spencer got his MS and Phd in Meteorology...
Oh, right. Meteorology. Impressive.
I think his name was really "Joe Schmoe."
Don't tell me... he's right and NASA and EPA and the mayor of Miami beach are all wrong because it's a government conspiracy, right? Just like Alex Jones told us about FEMA and 9/11 and the rest. Got it.
Why is Scott Pruitt downsizing scientists at EPA and increasing political hires?
Why did he sue it 14 times and lose?
You are obviously a great cherry picker in training, aren't you?
@Inga
Why did Mueller hire this guy? For fun?
Ryan Dickey, a veteran cyber crime prosecutor, has joined special counsel Robert Mueller's team of investigators.
A spokesman for the special counsel's office confirmed to The Hill on Wednesday that Dickey was assigned to Mueller's investigation in early November from the Justice Department's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section.
Gee...I dunno...what political organization and/or candidate has had computer related problems? /sarc
Tell them again how the models are purely and entirely based on known physics, Comrade Toothless. These troglodytes cannot hear that enough!
Tell them again as well how Google’s searches are completely pure mathematics, based on the most rigorously verified abstract laws and can be trusted implicitly to separate truth from the lies these fools spread!
A job will be guaranteed to all! None shall be required to work! The future is here fools, it you would just take it! First this Trump fellow must go!
The 1999 pub derived from Ali Mohammed debrief did yield some important persons (the late Mohammed atef by 2002, and self Al adel, now in Syria, but mostly dead ends. Of course the Clinton administration did nothing about this. The vaunted 2001 pdb had even less info.
"Gee...I dunno...what political organization and/or candidate has had computer related problems? /sarc"
Excellent point, though I imagine the DNC servers have also been bleach-bitted by now.
Tell them again how the models are purely and entirely based on known physics, Comrade Toothless.
Oh, that's a SERIOUS objection! Very imposing! I'm impressed. Complex equations and shit. Boy, you're a regular Isaac Newton.
How about you tell us what the climate's like on Mercury or the moon, since climate for you is completely decoupled from atmosphere. I guess all the temperature variations there are based on sunspots and volcanoes, right?
There is a "trace" of all sorts of things in the real world.
It is a mess, really, to keep anything "pure", even in lab conditions. The more precise your tests and instruments, the more "traces" of whatever you will find.
There is no such thing as "pure" water for instance, even when distilled.
Its all about "is x significant". And this is in the context of other factors, a, b, c ~ to z sub n. And this is not in reality a Yes/No question. That is the real world of the real world.
And Ritmo is a fraud.
Dicey handled the guccifer case, which had the effect of hiding the water closet server's existence for two year, covering the story with a pillow.
Mccarthy is so far behind the eightball, he might as well be in a different stadium
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
...how was the dates...
Don't be a creep. Just because the better part of the daddy who abandoned you dribbled down your mommie's legs doesn't mean you have to take out your SJW pseudo-feminist rage on me, loser.
1/14/18, 1:57 PM
No date then?
Here is a reminder of the last time you pretended to have a date and "get some" back in 2010. Take note of the childish equation of fish tacos to cunnilingus. You have matured greatly with the passage of time.
Ritmo Brasileiro said...
Am I getting in the way of your 5-star contributions, somehow?
Anyway, the evening is young. My night is just beginning. I won't be hung over, stupefied, yammering by 5 AM like Lem, but you get my drift.
So who's up for fish tacos? (AND NO, TROOPER - I DON'T MEAN THE HUMAN VARIETY! GET YOUR MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER. Although I did have some of that last night in another form) -- let's go support our local Stephen Starr restaurants.
Recently at a social gathering, someone asked me what I was writing about on our blog. I mentioned Fusion GPS. None of the liberals in the room, all of whom follow the news, knew what Fusion GPS is.
This exactly echoes a conversation I had last night with an old friend at a dinner party. She's very nice and smart; reads the NY Times every day, listens to NPR, and enjoys the late night talk shows. She's pretty well-informed (she thinks.)
But ... while everything she said about Trump I already knew (and knew in as much or more detail than she did), she knew NOTHING about Fusion GPS, the FBI leaks and misbehavior, or the "insurance against Trump election" text message. She was totally puzzled about all of those topics.
Totally trapped in her own bubble.
Many of these retrograde commenters attended university at the time when the fashion was to teach them “how to think.” FOOLS! Such an enterprise is doomed to fail, as the common clay of morons that makes up this country can never be taught how to think! Errors of thought and opinion are inevitable! Much better is the more recent technique of indoctrination in “what to think”! Think of it like a clitorectomy. Knowing how to think just makes people unhappy, restless, causes problems. On the other hand, knowing exactly what to think allows you to sleep soundly, to not cause trouble, and to be a asshole Trump supporter from some shithole state!
Donaldus Delenda Est!
There is a "trace" of all sorts of things in the real world.
It is a mess, really, to keep anything "pure", even in lab conditions. The more precise your tests and instruments, the more "traces" of whatever you will find.
Oh I got it. This is logical.
So you're saying that atmospheric CO2 doesn't even exist - or certainly can't be measured. Noice!
On a related note, I can't measure your posts. It really doesn't appear that they exist.
Some people are of the opinion that they exist. I, however, am not.
More testing must be done to determine whether they are real or not. A lot more.
Infinitely more.
You belong in a philosophy course. Arguing the basic nature of reality doesn't say anything about temperature and the atmosphere, ostrich.
Meteorology is quite an impressive field, because it is intensely data-driven. They are big on complex computer models in fact. So much so that they were and are early adopters of supercomputing systems.
The big diff between meteorology and "climate" is that these guys can test predictions.
"Dicey handled the guccifer case, which had the effect of hiding the water closet server's existence for two year, covering the story with a pillow."
Who is Dicey?
Oh, that's a SERIOUS objection! Very imposing! I'm impressed. Complex equations and shit. Boy, you’re a regular Isaac Newton.
Yes comrade, I can see you don’t trust me, but that’s OK, trust will come. It is well that you have learned that only rhetoric can lead to truth. All of these “complex equations and shit”? Phantasmagoria! The best way to discover the Truth is by reading the newspapers! One must not question these accounts! Thinking only leads to mental illness and diseases like sluggish schizophrenia, which must be avoided at all costs!
If you are wondering why anybody should take you seriously, since you obviously understand little to nothing of the subject, shout down that fear! Know that you are better than these reactionaries with their bourgeois ideas about “objective truth”! They will be ground under the boot of history!
I understand that you are upset that Trump shut down Hillary’s little proxy war with Putin. It’s OK, this Trump fellow will be gone soon, and we can have other wars! Maybe even restart that one!
buwaya, he’s a certifiable moron. Don’t waste your time. He can’t string three thoughts together logically.
You're a pretty disgusting person. Who knows what I meant in 2010 but if your girlfriend's/wife's vagina is too disgusting for you then go deal with your issue. Or have her deal with it.
For someone obsessed with thinking he's proving NASA and the EPA wrong you sure do try to dig through a lot of personal, humorous comments to try and prove nothing other than how disgusted you are by the fact that the best your parents' irresponsible sex life could result in was you. It's becoming more and more plainly obvious that they abandoned you. Who wouldn't?
I remember who I dated in 2010. I'm pretty sure you're getting the wrong idea, anyway. (i.e. "in another form.")
You are stupid and easily misled. And I'm pretty sure the only thing you're proving is how hysterical you are, as well as how humiliated and resentful you feel at feeling a need to have strong opinions about things you know nothing about.
Jesus! Bottom Turtle, you almost making me feel bad for TTR.
Buwaya always treats him fatherly. I spank him. You bringing out the whip immediately.
Slow down for god's sake. Let us have a little fun with him first. Don't make him cry and run away too soon.
The big diff between meteorology and "climate" is that these guys can test predictions.
Right. As can anyone who restricts their data sets to as limited a number of variables and time series as the "former."
But that's not the point. The point is to have you figure out why you're wrong to reject the most basic of correlations.
Again, which planets without atmospheres also have a climate, if one has no relation to the other?
“Of course, its quite possible the dems dont want the solutions (my belief). They simply want continued lax enforcement and amnesty in immigration to replace the american electorate with third worlders steeped in socialist thinking.”
Their basic problem here is that much of their philosophy cannot be voiced publicly. Why do so many appear to be self-hating privileged whites? Sure, some actually believe in our cultural, imperialist, guilt. I would put the Obamas there (ok - they are 3/2 Black - but Barack sure seems to hate his white half). Mostly it involved obtaining and retaking power through exploiting racial divisions. Economics? The smarter ones (I am intentionally ignoring Nancy Pelosi here) know that implementing socialism ultimately results in turning functioning economies into shitholes (e.g. Cuba, Venezuela, etc). They key here is realizing that while the masses are greatly harmed by the socialism that the Dem elites buy into, those in charge of a socialized economy can get filthy rich. And the richer they get, in comparison to how poor everyone else becomes, the more their wealth means - being a billionaire in Manhattan is not nearly as nice as being one in Venezuela or Cuba. Social justice, racism, sexism, etc? We know their true feelings there from what they let their elite get away with. But they can’t tell us that their political philosophy is that whatever gains them Power is good, and everything that loses them Power is bad, and that their purpose for gaining power is personal aggrandizement. That the reason so many got into politics was to get filthy rich (e.g. Clintons, AlGore, etc). That would never fly with the deplorable masses.
I went and read the Andrew McCarthy piece in NRO. My take away is that one should never trust or even talk to a government investigator, not even a traffic cop. No good can come from it. Keep your mouth shut no matter what they threaten. No matter what they imply that they know about you. They lie! Just stand mute.
No, Ritmo, it is simply that CO2 in its present small traces or their measured/projected increase, again in such a trace-proportion, in itself does not lead to the "global warming" predictions used to justify public policy.
This is acknowledged in all the published "science". The only way CO2 increases in this real world of ours can be made out to be a significant problem is if one assumes some effect whereby CO2 increases change some other more significant factor that will create a significant effect. The system most often suggested is the very small increase in temperature due solely to CO2 will somehow significantly increase atmospheric water vapor. This proposed effect is unproven.
This is akin to, for instance, potable water standards. The rule is that a slew of trace amounts of whatever nasties are OK. And that is in fact necessary to accept such traces, as utter purity is impossible to achieve. There is a Federal standard of 10ppb (parts per billion) of Arsenic in drinking water.
Now, you could start screeching that the evil Feds are poisoning our babies by tolerating Arsenic in drinking water. Whatever.
Very well reasoned. Intelligent. Thoughtful. Humorous.Imaginative. I like it a lot. Says much about he value of higher education, or something.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
You're a pretty disgusting person. Who knows what I meant in 2010 but if your girlfriend's/wife's vagina is too disgusting for you then go deal with your issue. Or have her deal with it.
For someone obsessed with thinking he's proving NASA and the EPA wrong you sure do try to dig through a lot of personal, humorous comments to try and prove nothing other than how disgusted you are by the fact that the best your parents' irresponsible sex life could result in was you. It's becoming more and more plainly obvious that they abandoned you. Who wouldn't?
I remember who I dated in 2010. I'm pretty sure you're getting the wrong idea, anyway. (i.e. "in another form.")
You are stupid and easily misled. And I'm pretty sure the only thing you're proving is how hysterical you are, as well as how humiliated and resentful you feel at feeling a need to have strong opinions about things you know nothing about.
1/14/18, 2:19 PM
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