WaPo reports.
Supply and demand... in the interesting setting where you can't import from out of state. Jack up the price.
In many cases, owners have spent tens of thousands of dollars to become compliant with state law to sell the product. But because the federal government considers marijuana cultivation and sales a criminal enterprise, it remains extremely difficult, if not impossible, for most of the marijuana businesses affected by the fire to access insurance, mortgages and loans to rebuild. Even a charitable fund set up to help marijuana farmers was frozen because a payment processor will not handle cannabis transactions.I boldfaced the word "considers" because, being an erstwhile lawyer, I think it's funny to be characterizing the government as considering something to be criminal. The government has written law that makes it criminal. It's not an opinion about whether marijuana cultivation and sale should be regarded as criminal. It simply is criminal, because of the statutes. There's no mind that is the federal government contemplating the matter and developing a conception. In fact, since these businesses are operating openly and the human beings working within the federal government aren't swooping in and prosecuting, it would make more sense to say that the federal government doesn't consider marijuana cultivation and sales a criminal enterprise. But I can see why businesses and other organizations not focused on marijuana — banks, insurance companies, payment processors — don't want to risk violating the law on the books.
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59 comments:
Peak law.
The government has written law that makes it criminal. It's not an opinion about whether marijuana cultivation and sale should be regarded as criminal...
Without question under a government of laws. The fact that nearly everyone would brush by that word without a backward glance suggests ours has become a government of men.
The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work.
He had been deported twice before.
Whatever happened to tobacco?
Well, there a host of federal regulations, which are indeed themselves law, which mandate that financial services businesses must not allow themselves to be used as a vehicle for criminal enterprises or money flows from criminal activity. So those banks and insurance companies are all controlled by the federal law that says that these mj-growing businesses are criminal enterprises. The fines can run into the millions, and just why any sane banker would take a chance like that is beyond me.
Insurance companies are also under FinCEN's governance, so the same applies. Literally any money service business could face severe penalties for handling cash flows from these businesses:
https://www.fincen.gov/
Not only are financial services business liable for penalties for assisting criminal activity, they'd also probably have a duty to disclose their participation in securities filings.
The Federal government has not only written laws, but has enacted statutes making cultivation and sale of marijuana criminal acts.
It is very odd and not encouraginng that Federal agencies established to enforce Federal statutes should blithely "consider" them "inoperative."
The Left considers our borders and immigration laws as meaningless. Ignores the law.
"There's way too much weed in California - Business Insider
Business Insider › pot-supply-glut-califor...
Jul 28, 2017 · California's marijuana producers are growing eight times more than is needed for consumption, according to a report."
The government has written law that makes it criminal.
And there's another written law that makes those laws invalid.
It's not an opinion about whether marijuana cultivation and sale should be regarded as criminal.
Yes it an opinion, if the criminalization is federal.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Which powers delegated to the United States by the Constitution (not by courts!) allow the feds to criminalize growing, owning, eating, etc, a plant?
Related question: what part of the constitution changed since the 18th amendment that allows with same prohibitive activity by law rather than by an amendment? ??
Have you noticed that there aren't any ads for marijuana outlets on television or radio?
.
"The government has written law that makes it criminal"
Who knew? If that were in fact true, Hillary and Barack would on trial right now. Indeed the governor and members of the legislature of California would be looking at prison time. However the Federal government has civil servants of impeccable moral character who opine on what is enforceable and what the legislative intent is, you know, top guys like James Comey.
As for the dope growers and retailers, I have little sympathy for the stupid and the greedy.
When dealing with two layers of government and the top layer says what your are doing is illegal a prudent person wouldn't rely on the junior layer saying its fine what you are doing.
Did the firefighters get high from the smoke?
David Begley said...
The Left considers our borders and immigration laws as meaningless. Ignores the law.
Completely different issue, though a commonality is Philosoher Kings making up stuff.
"The word “immigration” does not appear in the U.S. Constitution or any of its Amendments. ...
The rules of immigration were reserved to the States through the 10th Amendment until the first Federal law was enacted in 1875.> The U.S. Supreme Court ruled the following year that immigration regulation was an exclusive Federal responsibility. Congress established the Immigration Service in 1891, which was the first time the Federal government took an active role."
OregonGuy,
Yes, I've noticed. But I've also noticed that if you drive down Commercial St. in Salem, you see at least half a dozen MJ outlets within a mile or so. I don't even wanna know what it's like in Portland.
If you consider a properly enacted statute to be unconstitutional, write your congress critters or file suit in Federal court to have the mistake corrected.
It is not the business of the executive agencies to decide which statutes to enforce.
being an erstwhile lawyer
"Erstwhile" is pretentious. Better to say "former."
Fernandinmande,
Dead on.
Not enough were paying attention back in 1942 when Farmer Filburn wanted to grow a plant for his family. A ton of bricks was dumped on him.
And on us. Because that decision saddled the regulatory state on us with Super Glue.
Wild fire + weed farms = bottle that smoke or breathe deeply often. Nature's reward.
The arguments against tobacco smoking apply even more strongly against marijuana. The difference is only that fifty years ago, tobacco smoking was endemic while marijuana was smoked by a small minority. If marijuana is "legalized" (should the Professor discuss that term?) and takes off like some people hope, the effects on public health, nuisance of noxious odors, fires, and half-smoked reefers everywhere will be at least as bad and probably worse than they were from tobacco products.
Some people need to face up to this.
I kinda doubt there's gonna be few if any "half smoked reefers lying around" Hagar. Just sayin.
Whoops "everywhere".
Plus, of course, the hazards of riding in a vehicle or aeroplane piloted by a marijuana smoker.
Donald oberves: I kinda doubt there's gonna be few if any "half smoked reefers lying around" Hagar. Just sayin.
Hell no! That's why there are roach clips.
Denver has radio commercials for record pot. $99 an ounce is what got my attention.
Pot used to be more valuable than gold.
Denver has radio commercials for recreational pot. $99 an ounce is what got my attention.
Pot used to be more valuable than gold.
Isn't this a "teachable moment" for selling health insurance across state lines?
Catastrophic Anthropogenic Psychedelic Dreams, and a CO2 spike, too.
Blogger Quaestor said... Without question under a government of laws. The fact that nearly everyone would brush by that word without a backward glance suggests ours has become a government of men.
Quaestor forgets USA was founded by rebellion and is currently distinguished in the western world by our streak of rebellious culture. This type of cuck-talk is Un-American.
Blogger Michael K said...The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work. He had been deported twice before.
Deportation worked, then, right? Oh no, it didn't because the Feds refuse to enforce the borders because the Libs want clients and voters and the right wants cheap labor. Trying to place blame on someone else rather than owning your piece indicates a lack of courage.
Michael K the arsonist you mention isn’t accused of setting the big huge wildfire that impacted the North Bay. He’s accused of setting some little fire in a roadside ditch that was quickly put out. Doesn’t excuse what he did. But he didn’t do what you suggest — far as I know the cause of the conflagration remains under investigation and likely will be for some time.
That said, fuck the pot growers, they spout the healer green environmental whacko party line, but are ravenous robber barons spewing chemicals, killing wildlife, stealing and polluting water, and start fires.
Heard CalFire aviation on the attack yesterday morning dropping water and retards a few miles from the house. They put it out in 20-minutes, then the prison crews went in and made sure every bit of it was dead.
Additional material re the accused arsonist:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Sheriff-Challenges-Implications-That-Man-Arrested-12294576.php
Howard said...
"Blogger Michael K pontificated...The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work. He had been deported twice before."
Deportation worked, then, right?
You're quoting a very unreliable source.
“There’s a story out there he’s [Jesus Fabian Gonzalez] the arsonist for these fires. That is not the case. There is no indication he is related to these fires at all,” [Sonoma County Sherif] Giordano said in a news conference also broadcast on the department’s Facebook page and area TV stations. “I just did want to kill that speculation right now so we didn’t have things running too far out of control.”
Three Sonoma County Probation Officers patrolling the area because of the larger fires spotted Gonzalez, who told them he’d started the fire because he was cold, Sonoma County Sheriff’s Sgt. Spencer Crum told the Press Democrat.
The fire was extinguished before it got out of control, the paper reported.
Who gains by torching marijuana fields? Mexican cartels, that's who !
Local libs leaning towards blaming PGE, californias evil big energy company. So, naturally, anti-big energy zealots must be suspected. Probably antifa.
17 fires started between 12 a.m. and 2 a.m..
I hear there are a number of enterprising organizations South of the Border willing to help out Californians in their hour of need. As it happens, the State has just offered sanctuary to their mules. I'm sure all these unexplained separate fires in prime marijuana growing areas are a mere coincidence.
Fernandinande said...
Howard said...
"Blogger Michael K pontificated...The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work. He had been deported twice before."
Deportation worked, then, right?
You're quoting a very unreliable source
Don't know about reliability of source, but article was cleverly written to be read either way. Does not actually claim the guy did it, but supplies enough info to validate confirmation bias for those that want to see it. Author can claim he did not accuse the guy,because he actually did not.
Hagar,
I once argued just as you did. Not so sure any more. I'm assuming that blunts produce tar just as cigarettes do, and that obviously isn't good for you. But there is no such thing as a three-pack-a-day reefer smoker. My guess is that vaping is safer than MJ smoking, which in turn is safer than cigarette smoking. Of course everyone is freaking out about vaping, but not about MJ. Still, let's keep perspective.
Once again the neurotic weirdo attacks.
Are you an illegal alien fan ?
If he was deported twice, that's "unreliable ?"
It's Breitbark, Kan't be Fake
FullMoon said...
Don't know about reliability of source, but article was cleverly written to be read either way.
I meant the poster here who misquoted the article.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
Hagar,
I once argued just as you did. Not so sure any more.
That old propaganda takes a long time to wear off, apparently (half-life of about one generation?)
Google just about anything supposedly horrible about marijuana - driving, cancer, copd - and at best, or worst, you get mild, contradictory answers.
- car accidents rate unchanged after legalizing vs accident rate up 3% vs accident rate down.
- might cause cancer, but our study couldn't find it vs some other study did find it, sometimes, sorta.
- COPD from heavy use vs improved lung function from light use.
- legalization ~lower use of opiates (or alcohol) or lower in crease in use, but not much and not all the states.
Michael K pontificated...
Once again the neurotic weirdo attacks.
Fuck you and that stupid bullshit.
Here's your lie, which you're now lying about, you liar:
The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work.
It's the living Constitution in action, the law is something other than what is written. Or, if you prefer a more cynical view, the laws are there to be used or ignored according to the preferences of the government's officials and whom the offender is. Not dissimilar to the corrupt practice in New York of jacking the tax rates sky high and then selectively handing out targeted tax breaks for certain projects.
Fernandinande said...
FullMoon said...
Don't know about reliability of source, but article was cleverly written to be read either way.
I meant the poster here who misquoted the article.
Haha! Or, more charitably, misunderstood the article.
Susan Boyle is good on Wild Horses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3XAP0c8WU
Turns out it wasn't wildfires.
COPD from heavy use vs improved lung function from light use."
Please. Enough with the BS. How stupid does one have to be to think the inhaling smoke as deeply as you can into your lungs and holding it as long as you can in your lungs is somehow going to not have any deleterious effects on one's lungs but instead have some mild positive benefit to the lungs? I get it. You want to smoke dope. I have partaken in my youth of the weed, no biggie. But don't BS yourself with this nonsense as a justification and especially don't insult the intelligence of those who have more than three working neurons.
Could a Pot Farmer insure his crop against fires? We have crop insurance on the corn/soybeans on the family farm down in Illinois.
I suspect it could only be a California firm, if it actually exists.
Here's your lie, which you're now lying about, you liar:
The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work.
One.
Two
Three.
Four.
Now the NY Times disagrees.The federal agency’s acting director, Thomas D. Homan, on Wednesday accused Sheriff Giordano’s office of refusing to respond to federal requests about the immigrant, Jesus Fabian Gonzalez, leaving the community “vulnerable to dangerous individuals and preventable crimes.”
That, Sheriff Giordano said, was “inaccurate,” “inflammatory,” and was a distraction for local authorities responding to a major natural disaster.
“Frankly, I didn’t want a public rhetoric war with the federal government,” he said on Friday. “What I want to do is put this community back together.”
The dispute stems from the arrest on Sunday of Mr. Gonzalez, who had started a fire in the local park where he often sleeps, Mr. Giordano said.
The fire, which Mr. Gonzalez said he started to keep warm, threatened no structures and was quickly put out, the sheriff said.
That may well be true but don't piss on my leg and say it s raining.
You have some problems you should address.
Quaestor forgets USA was founded by rebellion and is currently distinguished in the western world by our streak of rebellious culture. This type of cuck-talk is Un-American.
Howard forgets that "rebellion" was George the Third's propaganda term for our War for Independence.
On the other hand, Forgets is an unfair word. It's all too obvious Howard's grasp of important things is slippery, to say the least.
Those who bandy about the idea that this nation was founded on rebellion are surprised to learn that the word does not appear in the Declaration of Independence. Nor does it refer to revolution. The Constitution speaks of rebellion five times, but not in approving terms.
Michael K said...
Here's your lie, which you're now lying about, you liar:
The fires were set by an illegal alien. Sanctuary state at work.
One.
Two
Three.
Four.
Umm, Gateway Pundit links to original Brierbart,
Yournewswire links to gateway, which links to BB.
Kinda seems like all sources are repeat of BB originall, not separately confirmed reports.
Basically, the guy been deported, is a bum, who started one fire to keep warm.
If I drive across Golden Gate bridge and start a small fire in Napa, reporter can honestly but misleadingly say Althouse commenter started fire, may be connected to forest fires
@Michelle DT,
I don't think there actually were/are many 3 packs a day cigarette smokers either. Cigarettes were cheap, so you lit one, took a few puffs, and set it down in an ashtray. Or offered cigarettes to everyone around you as much as smoking them yourself.
And it is my understanding that the oils in marijuana are nastier than those in tobacco, so less consumption may still result in more damage.
Hagar said...
@Michelle DT,
I don't think there actually were/are many 3 packs a day cigarette smokers either. Cigarettes were cheap, so you lit one, took a few puffs, and set it down in an ashtray. Or offered cigarettes to everyone around you as much as smoking them yourself.
And it is my understanding that the oils in marijuana are nastier than those in tobacco, so less consumption may still result in more damage."
Hagar I smoked to and a half packs a day. Didn't light up and take a few puffs then put it out. Or offer cigs to everyone around. But I knew they were bad for me but did it anyway for years. One thing I never saw was a cigarette smoker inhale as deeply as they could and hold their breath as long as they could unlike an MJ smoker.
Susan Boyle is fantastic.
Maybe progressives will finally care about illegal immigration now that millions of dollars of crop has been destroyed.
No matter. The increased demand will be filled by cartels no matter the official price, and people will still be hanged from Mexican highway overpasses, or shot and dumped into mass graves, and the happy stoners can go to their graves feeling no pain.
I don't see what is wrong with saying that this country was born in rebellion. Sure, it was also through a war of independence too. The important thing here is that we have a government that is created and perpetuated by consent of the governed. Prior to that, King George had been ruling through his divine right as the king. We rejected that theory. And that is part of what makes this country unique. In the view of our founders, and of many of us to this day, the only legitimate source of government legitimacy is collective will and acquiescence. Anything else is despotism. And that means that the government gets its power from its citizens, and not the other way around, where the people get their rights from the government. Instead we get our natural and fundamental rights from our creator.
Our founders were right to distrust central government. It is easy for such to get corrupted, and fail to conform to the wishes of the people who empower the government by their consent to be governed by it, through the excessive influence of monied and powerful interests. We see the problem here - why was pot made illegal in the first place? One big part of that apparently was that William Randolph Hearst had invested in making paper from wood, instead of hemp, as his competitors had been doing. He used his papers to ban pot, in part in order to disadvantage his competitors in the paper publishing industry, because banning pot made them switch from hemp to paper for their newspapers.
A.A.: "The government has written law that makes it criminal. It's not an opinion...."
Well, OK, it is the law. But is it the law-law?
Hard to respect a Government that that does not respect itself
I have been surprised a number of times at those who boast on social media about smoking pot in the states that have newly legalized the act.
They may not know they have confessed to a (Federal) criminal act, but they have.
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